Stop whinging and start understanding Asian football
Columnist By Mike Tuckerman, 9 Mar 2012 Mike Tuckerman is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- A-League, AFC Champions League, Asia, football, Les Murray
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Are the senior Socceroos up to the standard of Asian football, let alone the World Cup? AFP
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The Asia trap. It sounds like a bad movie, but it is actually the title of a Les Murray blog posted yesterday, and I would love to know what evidence he used to base his assertion A-League players are unlikely to improve by moving to Asia.
Surely it’s not the form of Alex Brosque – recently a key man for the Socceroos whilst plying his club trade at Japanese side Shimizu S-Pulse.
Or Sasa Ognenovski?
The defender who lifted the 2010 AFC Champions League as captain of South Korean side Seongnam, was named Player of the Tournament and Asian Footballer of the Year.
How about Joel Griffiths? He’s one of the biggest stars in China and recently joined Shanghai Shenhua in a big-money move from Beijing Guoan, despite being continually snubbed by the Socceroos.
All three moved to Asian clubs from the A-League and have improved as a result.
Yet, Mr Murray insists Australian players would be better served going to Europe, despite the fact the likes of Nicky Carle and new Busan I’Park signing Matt McKay struggled to make an impact on said continent.
So how does being released by Crystal Palace or sitting on the bench at Rangers result in a better Australian player?
“The J-League apart, it is probable that all of the leagues in Asia to which these players gravitate are inferior not superior to the A-League,” Murray writes.
Probable? Is it? How much Asian football has Murray actually watched?
Because in my opinion, saying Australian players regress by moving to Asia is a statement strong enough to warrant some evidence.
Last year I completed a Masters degree in Journalism with a 10,000-word research article on “Asian football coverage in the Australian media landscape.”
I’m happy enough (or conceited enough) to admit my project earned a perfect grade, and one of my key points was that the Australian football media is fundamentally Eurocentric.
Time and again my attempts to connect with fellow journalists on matters of Asian football were stonewalled – presumably because said journalists knew nothing about the Asian game and didn’t want to admit as much.
And I’m sorry to say Murray’s casual denigration of Asian leagues smacks of the old soccer/new football divide.
So what if some these leagues actually are inferior, as Murray claims?
If Matt Simon can’t crack the Socceroos squad as a Central Coast player, what difference does it make if he plays for Chunnam Dragons instead?
Should he have followed in the footsteps of his erstwhile Mariners team-mate Pedj Bojic and joined Northampton Town instead, to “improve the credibility and stature of the A-League?”
I just don’t understand the logic.
Seoul-based journalist John Duerden is widely regarded as the most authoritative voice on Asian football, but when even the taciturn Lancastrian starts grumbling about the Australian media’s ignorance of Asian football, it’s a sign our stubborn refusal to engage with Asia has been noted.
Duerden quite rightly points out we never see headlines about “cashed up” Scottish or Belgian clubs signing A-League players.
The blatant double-standard doesn’t say much for Australian participation in the so-called “Asian Century.”
Ironically, on the same day Murray was making sweeping generalisations about Asian football, Football Federation Australia was providing a submission to the Federal Government as part of its “Australia in the Asian Century” White Paper.
It’s a laudable attempt to put Australia’s involvement in Asian football into context, and if nothing else suggests the FFA is more switched on to the potential of Asia than certain employees of our supposed multicultural broadcaster.
It’s time we take the blinkers off and start trying to analyse Asian football.
Because we’re being left behind on a technical level by Asian sides, as our media pines for the nostalgic days of yore when any half-decent Australian player had no other choice but to move to Europe.
Mike Tuckerman is a Sydney-born journalist and lifelong football fan. After lengthy stints watching the beautiful game in Germany and Japan, he has settled in Brisbane and has been a Roar columnist since December 2008. Follow Mike on twitter @Mike_Tuckerman
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- Explore:
- A-League, AFC Champions League, Asia, football, Les Murray
March 9th 2012 @ 6:52am
Hbomb@hotmail.com said | March 9th 2012 @ 6:52am | Report comment
Could not agree more. Let’s not forget local clubs are losing money everywhere and this is one way to actually make money. Think if every team sells 4 players a year for 500 k each that’s an awesome profit. we pump out so so much young talent that we can continue to re produce
March 9th 2012 @ 7:52am
Titus said | March 9th 2012 @ 7:52am | Report comment
If you just keep selling off your team, then crowds, Tv, Sponsorship, and media will quickly drop. We need to raise the wages to keep and attract better players and then the transfer value goes up, in which case you may be able to sell 2 players for $1-2 million each.
March 20th 2012 @ 11:15pm
Alex said | March 20th 2012 @ 11:15pm | Report comment
Of course.. I am from south America, football was perfect there until the big teams dedicated to form and sale players instead of giving us a very beautiful game.
March 9th 2012 @ 7:03am
nearpost said | March 9th 2012 @ 7:03am | Report comment
Spot on Mike – don’t worry you’ll be writing about football and Asia long after Sir Les has retired:)
Australians playing in Asia are making great strides for themselves and the game. Indeed the contribution to long-term cultural change and opportunities should not be dismissed
How will our football connections grow over the next 20 years. Already we’re all familiar with Bunyodkor, Gamba and Pohang, and internationally Qatar, Iraq, Uzbekistan, Japan and Korea Rep hold increasing interest and awareness. Players, Coaches and Media now have increasing, fascinating links.
Is it really so much worse playing in Asia, less inspiring or worse for your development than playing for Morton (Partaluu), Sassasulo (Valeri) Dortmund bench (Langerak) Rangers bench (MacKay) Utrecht bench (Oar) Gladbach seconds (Leckie) Blackburn (Griffiths) Bolton (Jamieson) the list goes on and on.
Ask Ahmed Elrich (Fulham) Adrian Leijer (Fulham) Ruben Zadkovich (Derby). Did they really benefit by going to Europe, England no less, and never playing.
Big Sas is a great example, Mark Milligan another. De Vere, Kennedy, Joel Griffiths, Alex Brosque, the list goes on. Players going to Asia is a great thing. More spots back home for other young boys to come through. It’s up to us to improve those players. And that means more reasons for young boys to play football and earn a good living here or abroad.
Note Graham Arnolds point this week. The Mariners had 4 players aged 19 playing in the Asia Champions League this week. Will any of these break into the Socceroos by the age of 23? What exerience will they have had by then?
Would they have got this opportunity if Matt Simon and Royston Griffiths had not gone to Asia?
What better incentive for our development coaches and players around the country working with players in their teenage years. The options are increasing.
Better to be in Div 1 in China, Japan, Korea etc than playing outside major Prem leagues in Europe or being on the bench at said club.
Les has never been a visionary when it comes to football – this is left to Johnny W and Craig F.
Players leaving for Asia presents many challenges, especially mid-season and for fans’ loyalty but the opportunities presented are just as great, and every club needs the money at the moment. These transfers are sustaining the league, producing more players more often is a great challenge for all of us. We have the talent, players just need more opportunities to play. Increasingly as the Mariners have shown this week they are going to get in. In the A-League, in the ACL.
Mike, you’ll be writing about football and Asia long after Sir Les has retired.
March 9th 2012 @ 11:31am
phutbol said | March 9th 2012 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Agree with just about everything you said, except Craig Foster is no visionary. He appears more and more to be an axe-grinding malcontent with no other agenda than the demise of FFA. Does nothing but point out the shortcomings in everything but never puts forward a solution.
March 9th 2012 @ 4:32pm
bart said | March 9th 2012 @ 4:32pm | Report comment
Agreed, I stopped reading his posts and listening to him as it was just getting boring.
March 9th 2012 @ 7:36am
nordster said | March 9th 2012 @ 7:36am | Report comment
great blog Mike, your contributions on Asia are a highlight on The Roar. Especially come ACL time.
And glad u raised SBS as i’ve just deleted my TWG series link after the Palmer interview … was sort of regretting it this week in case they brought Scott McIntyre back as i’d enjoyed his reports on Asian football (not sure if they did). Either way i think my football week is better off without their tedious coverage on domestic matters. And yes its odd that the “multicultural broadcaster” is so far off base on Asia. To think i was saying they should get some ACL games the other day. For shame …
(I’ll still watch their cycling and docos of course!)
March 9th 2012 @ 7:49am
Titus said | March 9th 2012 @ 7:49am | Report comment
I would hope we can eventually get over this idea that all footballers need to leave Australia to improve. I think players should be able to earn a good living playing in a league that is considered the equal of all others in Asia.
I am sure the J-K and even the chinese league are all pretty good, especially technically, but my interest is in the HAL getting better and making the ACL a genuine and respected competition.
The best players will always head overseas and as Asian football improves, Asia will become more of a destination, but we need to get the HAL to a standard where we can compete with wages of $5-600 000 for the Brosques, McKays, Troisis, Burns, Madaschis, Milligans, Spira’s, Bosnars, Griffith’s etc.
March 9th 2012 @ 11:38am
Roarchild said | March 9th 2012 @ 11:38am | Report comment
In the meantime while wait for Australian clubs to become wealthier I don’t mid them leaving. We only have 9/10 teams (GCU and Wellington confusing the figure) so just means more opportunities.
That said it’s sad when Roar lose McKay and Devere and the Mariners lose Simon and Griffiths to Asian clubs and as a result less competitive in the ACL.
March 9th 2012 @ 9:29am
mahony said | March 9th 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
BOOM! Spot on – I especialy like this:
“Ironically, on the same day Murray was making sweeping generalisations about Asian football, Football Federation Australia was providing a submission to the Federal Government as part of its “Australia in the Asian Century” White Paper.
It’s a laudable attempt to put Australia’s involvement in Asian football into context, and if nothing else suggests the FFA is more switched on to the potential of Asia than certain employees of our supposed multicultural broadcaster.”
The FFA get a lot right – and it is good for it to be acknowledged when it does.
March 9th 2012 @ 11:00am
Nathan of Perth said | March 9th 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Was good to see them putting in that sort of effort.
March 9th 2012 @ 9:36am
The Cattery said | March 9th 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Let’s not start idolising Asian soccer just yet – both the national teams and the main clubs are well, well short of the upper echelon of world soccer.
The Japanese NT and the top Japanese clubs are gradually getting there, but as for the rest, well, people can’t be seriously arguing that you can form a solid Socceroos XI from players in the various Asian leagues, compared to if we were drawing the XI from the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga and the Eredivisie. Even the Russian and Turkish leagues are preferable.
I would happily concede that some of the Asian leagues and clubs are preferable to playing in parts of Eastern Europe.
March 9th 2012 @ 10:40am
Dinoweb said | March 9th 2012 @ 10:40am | Report comment
Cat, I do not think anyone is suggesting that a national squad made up of players based in Asia would be superior to one of players from the top divisions of Europe. The issue is that we do not have a squad of players playing at that level any longer. Ten years ago maybe, but the number has dwindled over recent years.
The argument is, is it better for players to play in the A-League, an Asian club, or a lower level European club?
Les Murray suggested that it is not in the interest of Australian football for players to move to Asian leagues at the expense of the HAL. Mike argues that is not true and that Les is merely showing a Eurocentric bias against Asian football.
The case really revolves around the foreign player import rule. In the ACL clubs are only allowed 1 Asian and 3 other foreigners players per team, with Australia counting as an Aisan team. Will playing for a side filled with arguably lesser standard local players help to improve the standard of the Australian players?
I will readilly admit that I know almost nothing about Asian football. Apart from a handfull of Asian cup games and WC qualifiers, my only experience has been to watch FC Tokyo defeat Roar in Brisbane last Tuesday.
Certainly I would be happy for any Oz player to play for a club of the standard of Tokyo. Any other opinion I would have though is only based on personal bias.
I do however have much more expereince at following lower level European competitions, and can see little point in Australians moving to play in those competitions other than a higher wage. Very few Aussies have ever been plucked from the obscurity of a lesser league, with some noteable exceptions like Viduka and Cahill.
On the whole tough, I agree with Mike. Our future is in Asia. More and more of our players are going there. The standard in most European competitions is not that fantastic. We should start to spend more time looking at and studying the relative merits of the Asian leagues and leave European football where it belongs, an important part of the history of the game, but not the future.
March 9th 2012 @ 11:10am
The Cattery said | March 9th 2012 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Nothing beats playing regularly – I agree with that, and it’s probably better that players are playing regularly either here or in a good Asian Club – Matt McKay may have been better off staying or doing something different, but he couldn’t have predicted how things were going to turn out.
On the other hand, players sometimes have to start at the bottom and work their way up, or spend years in the reserves, getting loaned out to little clubs, etc, etc – plenty of renowned socceroos have had to endure that sort of career before making the big time.
So this is the great trade off – do we encourage potential socceroos to jump on that merry-go-round that for most, will lead to disappointment and a ticket back home, but for some they will have a great career and become great socceroos, or do we encourage them to take the easy money in Asia?
March 9th 2012 @ 11:17am
Nathan of Perth said | March 9th 2012 @ 11:17am | Report comment
” or do we encourage them to take the easy money in Asia?”
That can still lead to great career and a spot with the Socceroos.
No one gets better for being on a bench.
March 9th 2012 @ 11:41am
j binnie said | March 9th 2012 @ 11:41am | Report comment
Cattery – You strike some good points in your offering. One of the things I noted in Mike’s offering was that although he hints at the game being on the improve in Asia (FC Tokyo proved that OK) he omitted to say that the game in Europe is undergoing great change as well.
You mention Matt McKay’s sojourn at Rangers.Three or four weeks before he signed for that august body I wrote a warning to Matt saying he should tread carefully, the club was under new ownership,new football manager and had widely reported financial problems.Maybe he saw the letter,maybe not,but I ask Mike,could anyone have seen that same club in administration only 10 or 15 years ago? Of course not.
So what is causing all this change in world football? The answer is simple,MONEY. Asian clubs are presently sourcing players from Australia and it does appear they are working in a standard close to that of our HAL. But,as in Europe,how long will it be before MONEY will change that,going from our standard to that of countries who presently enjoy higher standards of football than ours. Greece,Portugal,Spain, all intense football countries, are in financial strife and up to now we have seen money men moving to these countries and buying up “big clubs”. How long is it going to be before they realise,if they use the contract system they could actually move 20 players more cheaply than buy a club in one of these cash strapped countries. Food for thought is it not ?????. jb
March 9th 2012 @ 11:12am
Roarchild said | March 9th 2012 @ 11:12am | Report comment
I think you would be better of in Japan or Korea than in Turkey with one of the lower teams.
You would at least get paid unlike poor Danny Milosevic.
March 9th 2012 @ 9:49am
Roger Rational said | March 9th 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Tuckerman, you might have a leg to stand on when Lionel Messi or Wayne Rooney is turning out in the J-League. Until then, I’ll stick with the EPL and La Liga thanks.
March 9th 2012 @ 10:16am
Nelson said | March 9th 2012 @ 10:16am | Report comment
Where exactly did Mike say that playing in an Asian league was better than playing in the EPL or La Liga? Your reading comprehension needs some work, Roger.
March 9th 2012 @ 9:56am
Stevo said | March 9th 2012 @ 9:56am | Report comment
I think the background to Les’ article stems from comments he made on TWG some coupla week ago when he said that the Japanese have a long term (20 plus years) goal of getting all their national team players to be playing in the top leagues in the world – Les mentioned the Euro leagues and Fozzie nodded approvingly. I have no problem with players testing themselves against the best – it should be encouraged. But the vast majority of our players need not be bench warmers in the lower leagues of Europe. Wouldn’t it be great to see an Aussie playing for Tokyo FC?? What a tight, and technically terrific team they are. I’m sure they’d give many EPL teams a run for their money. Asia is definitely on the rise. Sorry to say but Les is losing his marbles.
March 9th 2012 @ 12:49pm
Matsu said | March 9th 2012 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
“I think the background to Les’ article stems from comments he made on TWG some coupla week ago when he said that the Japanese have a long term (20 plus years) goal of getting all their national team players to be playing in the top leagues in the world ”
If he said that then he is WAY off base . . . . or at best, he heard one comment from somebody in the JFA and took it for the regular party line. The truth is that for the past month, all the opinion pieces in the major football weeklies and sports tabloids have been hand-wringing about the overreliance of Zack Japan on players in Europe. This was a very big issue when Zico was in charge as well. The problem arises when 11 guys who all showed up in Japan on Monday morning or later go out on Tuesday evening against a young and energetic team like Uzbekistan and get run off the pitch, because all of them are too fatigued or jet lagged to run. Zico was repeatedly criticised for this – you need at least a few domestic players who are all fresh, have been training/talking with the coach for a week or two, and dont have to worry about what their club team will say if they take a knock and come home injured.
Especially for the FAR eastern teams (Japan, Korea, Australia) it makes sense to have a core group of players who play domestically (or at least not too far abroad) who can take part in the AFC internationals that have short turn-around times, lest you have the same recurring problem with tired Europeans. If you surveyed all the main football pundits in Japan today, I doubt you could find a single one who would claim that Japan should try to get all its NT players to be playing in Europe. On the contrary, many of the most influential players the Samurai Blue have ever had were guys who played their entire career in Japan (Yasuhito Endo, Yuji Nakazawa, Marcus Tulio Tanaka . . . . )
Australia is much better off to have players they can call upon who are NOT based in Europe. Of course, Japan and Korea are a long haul flight from Australia as well, so Id tend towards the opinion that the priority should be on building the A-League and making it strong enough to keep a few NT members from ever leaving.
Having said that, I agree 117.5% with Mike on the point that players who move to other teams in Asia are likely to benefit their career, even if they go to a “lesser” league such as – for example – Thailand (trust me, when you get a chance to see Burriam United in action, youll sit up and start taking notice of the Thai league). Not only does playing in another country expose you to a very different style of football, which is a valuable learning experience, but you are also close enough to home that you can fly back for an international match and still be fresh and on the same body-clock time.
March 9th 2012 @ 12:58pm
Nathan of Perth said | March 9th 2012 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
“The truth is that for the past month, all the opinion pieces in the major football weeklies and sports tabloids have been hand-wringing about the overreliance of Zack Japan on players in Europe. This was a very big issue when Zico was in charge as well.”
Many condolences, that’s a very familiar sounding battle.
Agree with a lot of what you say here. And we had our own rude introduction to Thai football in our WCQs where we got pretty lucky to get the win over them at home!
March 9th 2012 @ 1:32pm
Griffo said | March 9th 2012 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
I saw some of the ACL match of Burriam vs Kashiwa Reysol the other night…nothing about Burriam that I saw suggested to me they would be anyones whipping boys unless they brought it upon themselves – great individual skill and flair.
From what I have heard in the past, futsal is going off in Thailand. Going to be a huge generation of players coming through with silky skilled moves in the future.
Oh, and while I’m remembering: the supporters of Burriam after they scored…the singing, dancing, music…I almost found myself chanting “BURRR-iiii-AM! BURRRRR-iii-AM!” in the dead of night.
We need more drums and instruments amongst the terraces in Australia…
March 9th 2012 @ 10:01am
whiskeymac said | March 9th 2012 @ 10:01am | Report comment
yes and no – great article either way. Europe is the top still – no arguments surely there, and how good would it be to see players making it in the top flight from oz again – but Asia is a very good alternative for players like Cornthwaite, Griffiths, Brosque and Ogenovski etc. Agree with Cattery that its better they were in J (or K leagues) than 2nd division euro sides/ countries or sitting on the pine.
Rather have them playing HAL though – purely selfish reasons mind you.
Still there always seems to be a fantasy football twinge to these arguments – where should the players go to make the roos better, as opposed to where can the players go to earn a decent living and enjoy their career… ultimately i think Simon and Bresciano and Carney etc wont regret their renumeration moves to different cultures, regardless as to whether they “develop” for the amusement and vitriol of armchair pundits who bemoan players making a living for their entertainment.
March 9th 2012 @ 10:16am
Trust Me said | March 9th 2012 @ 10:16am | Report comment
Who sided with Palmer in the latest Fiasco?
Who writes negative articles about the A-League, but effusive, glowing articles about European football and in particular Messi Barcelona and Le Arsenal?
I was absolutely flabbergasted when I watched the SBS “sport” report a couple of nights ago – they had 5 minutes on the Euro Champions League and nothing, absolutely nothing to report on the Asian Champions League.
SBS have agendas bigger than Palmer’s Bank Account.
March 9th 2012 @ 6:10pm
Mick said | March 9th 2012 @ 6:10pm | Report comment
European champs league has pay tv & FTA coverage in Australia when none of the clubs do anything for Australia
Asia champs league is only on fox & can not get any FTA coverage despite aussie clubs playing.
Look at Adelaide in 2008 when they made the final, no public big screens so Asian football is put in the corner.
Look at weekends, FTA tv have epl results & sometimes goals but no results on a-league.
The players are going to Asia for money not to improve but if they do improve good
March 10th 2012 @ 11:34am
PeterK said | March 10th 2012 @ 11:34am | Report comment
I agree, “Trust Me”. There was nothing on the Asian Champions’ League — because I was looking for it (with my tongue hanging out and salivating)! For me that was primarily because I don’t have Fox (and don’t intend to pay a fortune for stuff I don’t want — all I want is football, and nothing else, but they don’t have a package for that!)
I guess Mick is right when he essentially says that it was because the Asian Champions’ League rights belong to Fox, and not at all to FTA (let alone SBS).