Brute Force opens up Super Rugby’s Australian conference
By Spiro Zavos, 2 Apr 2012 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- ACT Brumbies, Australian rugby, Melbourne Rebels, NSW Waratahs, Queensland Reds, Rugby Union, Super Rugby, Western Force
The Western Force smashed the Reds to open up the Australian Super Rugby conference
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- Western Force news
- Rugby Union news
- Super Rugby news
- Melbourne Rebels news
- 2013 Wallabies squad news
The Western Force’s brilliantly executed 45-19 victory over the hapless Queensland Reds has thrown the Australian Super Rugby conference wide open.
It defies the predictive powers of Dr Nostradamus himself to suggest which of the five teams can stagger through the tournament and gain enough points to top the Australian list.
Before the weekend, I would have argued, though without too much vehemence, that either the Brumbies, Reds or Waratahs would emerge as the top dogs.
I would have dismissed the chances of the Force (and in fact did in the Sydney Morning Herald) on the grounds that they had no attack. The Rebels had some, especially when they could get either or both of James O’Connor and Kurtley Beale on the ground, but their defence was more porous than their attack was potent.
But not now. Not after their terrific victory over the Reds.
Harold Wilson, the former UK Prime Minister, once famously remarked that a week is a long time in politics. The insight works in sport as well.
In the sixth round of the Super Rugby season we had the Brumbies going down to the Sharks. But not before staging a remarkable 60m surge with time up, from their own 22 to the Sharks 22, before a pass was dropped during a charge toward the posts for what might have been the winning try.
The Waratahs, after playing smart and winning rugby in the first half of their match against the Chiefs at Hamilton, cracked in the second half under the intense attack of one of the undoubtedly strongest sides in 2012.
Then we have the Reds totally outplayed, in both halves of the game, by a dynamic, enterprising and determined Force side in front of a Perth crowd that absolutely loved every second of the thrashing. The last Force try was a length-of-the-field beauty.
It involved Alfie Mafi on the burst inside his own 22, Nick Cummins smashing through tacklers to continue the attack, the impressive and neat Ben Symour taking the ball to the line before releasing to David Pocock, for Matt Hodgson to cross over in the far corner.
A generous Tim Horan (with Rod Kafer, the best expert commentator going around) exclaimed as the ball was planted over the Reds’ try line, “One of the tries of the year!”
And so it was, in a year and a round that has seen any number of similar, length-of-the-field beauties. The Cheetahs’ 47-38 boilover in Wellington had about half a dozen similarly enthralling ensemble tries.
One of the aspects of the Australian sides that struck me was the absence of strike players in comparison to their abundance in the South African and New Zealand teams. It leads the eye to the Force’s Nick Cummins, the Reds’ Dom Shipperley, and the Brumbies’ Jess Mogg.
An old champion like Adam Ashley-Cooper, for instance, seems to be nowhere near as effective with the ball as he used to be. Rob Horne is a disappointment too.
My feeling is that the Wallabies are going to need a couple of outside backs with size, pace and a sort of derring-do, almost madcap determination in their running.
A game or two is hardly the basis for elevating players to the national colours. But Cummins was the energiser for the Force playing in the centres, rather than on the wing. Every time he got the ball he made huge tracts of ground, with would-be defenders lying prone. His bursts put the Force on the front foot and terrorised the Reds defence.
Shipperley scored a terrific long-range try in the last seconds of the match against the Waratahs to snatch a victory for the Reds. He scored another beauty, again on time but with his team well-beaten, against the Reds. The old gridiron coach who enunciated the mantra ‘you can’t coach speed’ was absolutely right.
Shipperley has got real speed, ‘gas’ in the modern idiom. He has a step and an eye for the try line. For a rugby team, having a winger like this is like a tennis player having a huge serve. It means plenty of easy points.
Jesse Mogg is the Brumbies fullback I know nothing about. Rod Kafer, who is close to the Brumbies, said in his commentary that he has only played six matches of rugby union. Is he a former leaguie? Kafer also said that Stephen Larkham reckons he is the most gifted player he has come across. Certainly, Mogg has the same loping speed of Larkham and a willingness to have a go.
They are three players Robbie Deans should be looking closely at. Now, back to the Australian conference.
The Brumbies are leading with 17 points. They have played five and won three. They have also had their bye, which is worth four points.
I wrote in my notebook while watching the terrific match against the Sharks that Jake White has got the Brumbies playing an aggressive game at the breakdown, using the rolling maul effectively, kicking for position a lot and exploiting their strong set pieces, the lineouts and scrums.
They lack some killer moves in the backs, something they could learn from the Brumbies of old. They also lack some line-breakers in the backs and forwards.
And on a number of occasions when they were close to the Sharks try line and pressing, they lost all their shape in the back line. This is something that Larkham, the backs coach, needs to address.
But given the fact that they defeated the Highlanders at home and lost narrowly to the Chiefs at Hamilton, and have a quality head coach, I’d make the fearful prediction (without too much enthusiasm it must be said) that they will, just might, possibly, perhaps, win (or not lose) the Australian conference title.
The Reds and the Waratahs have played all six matches in the tournament. Both teams are on 13 points, with an additional four points in the bank for both of them. The Reds have lost three of their matches. The Waratahs have lost four. The Reds have earned only one bonus point. The Waratahs have won five. The Reds have a points differential of -60, the Waratahs -3.
The Waratahs beat the Sharks, who beat the Brumbies. But against the Chiefs, once Wycliff Palu was off the field early in the second half, after 11 strong carries, the Waratahs did not have much attack. Their defence was excellent and a rampant Chiefs side in the second half was held out for long periods of time.
A strong defence is not a compliment that can be made about the Reds. Their points differential is the worst in the tournament. Despite this, I feel that they are a better chance to win the Australian conference than the Waratahs. Quade Cooper when he comes back will give the backs some edge they are missing. The pack is a good one but it is not firing. Ewen McKenzie is a shrewd coach. I expect the Reds to be the main challengers to the Brumbies.
There will be a huge test of this contention next weekend, on Good Friday, when the Reds play the Brumbies before a huge crowd (the Reds have 30,000 members) at Suncorp Stadium.
The Force have lost four of their matches, as have the Waratahs. Most of these losses have been close. This is the reason they have accumulated four bonus points, the second best in the Australian conference. They have defeated the Waratahs in Sydney and the Reds at home in Perth.
One of the keys to winning the home conference is to win the local matches. Their victory against the Reds was impressive. They play the Chiefs at Perth on Friday. A win, however unlikely, would propel them into real conference considerations.
The Brumbies, Reds, Waratahs, and Force have some chance (to greater and lesser degrees) of winning the Australian conference. I can’t make a similar prediction about the Rebels. They have no hope.
The Rebels played a good first half against the Highlanders at Invercargill. But in the second half they were the equivalent of that boxing award that used to be given to the kid who was stupid enough to keep coming back after he was smashed to smithereens, ‘the gamest loser.’ The Highlanders ran in five tries in 40 minutes, an assault on John Muggleton’s defensive system that truly muggled it.
This weekend, the Rebels play the Blues at Auckland. The Blues must win to keep their faltering 2012 campaign somewhere near the right track. The Reds play the Brumbies at Brisbane. The Force play the Chiefs at Perth.
Only the Waratahs, who have a bye, are guaranteed of coming out of the round with any tournament points.
Spiro Zavos, a founding writer on The Roar, was long time editorial writer on the Sydney Morning Herald, where he started a rugby column that has run for nearly 30 years. Spiro has written 12 books: fiction, biography, politics and histories of Australian, New Zealand, British and South African rugby. He is regarded as one of the foremost writers on rugby throughout the world.
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April 2nd 2012 @ 6:10am
Justin said | April 2nd 2012 @ 6:10am | Report comment
Spiro – it’s hard not to like what you with Mogg and Shipperley. Both have caught my eye and look like Wallabies down the track.
Mogg also has an enormous left boot, there is some Latham about him. Be exciting to watch in the next few years. I thought he was an Aussie Schoolboy? Maybe not. Ships is strong (and will get stronger), quick feet and mind, a good defender and happy to rough it. Importantly he looks as though he wants the ball like Jordan used to, when the stakes are high.
April 2nd 2012 @ 8:58am
Bakkies said | April 2nd 2012 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Mogg has been playing club rugby in the ACT in the past couple of years
April 2nd 2012 @ 9:26am
jeznez said | April 2nd 2012 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Here you go Spiro, this article answers a few of your questions on Mogg. Qld Schoolboys in 2006, followed by a stint in the Bronco’s Toyota Cup side then a move to Wests in the Canberra club competition.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/mogg-overcomes-nerves-in-super-debut-20120225-1tvgr.html
April 2nd 2012 @ 1:04pm
DingoBob said | April 2nd 2012 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Jesse played for the Western District Lions in ACT Club Rugby which is also Stephen Larkhams home club. He has become know for his ability to chip over the top and recover the ball, he did this many times while playing for Wests.
April 2nd 2012 @ 10:06am
Justin said | April 2nd 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Thanks Bakkiea and Jeznez, I thought he had played Union before. He looks a natural footballer, particularly as a kick returning 15 and a fair left hoof.
April 2nd 2012 @ 8:18am
Tissot Time said | April 2nd 2012 @ 8:18am | Report comment
Shpperley reminds me of Ben Tune when I see him running.
The Hurricanes were also stiff the match officials did not go to the TMO for what appeared to be a knock on in the act of scoring. This has cost them a bonus point.
April 2nd 2012 @ 8:29am
Latimer Umaga said | April 2nd 2012 @ 8:29am | Report comment
No mention of the amazing Cheetahs and their dominant (despite what the scoreline says) display against the Hurricanes? Im from south auckland and I can appreciate that sort of stuff put your hands up for the Cheetahs.
Also just want to say if you havent watched the Bulls Stormers go ahead and do it cause its test match intensity with a packed 50k crowd. Im a blues man myself but the Stormers are my saffa side and we on top of this thing
April 2nd 2012 @ 8:58am
Lippy said | April 2nd 2012 @ 8:58am | Report comment
the cheetahs come back was good however one only needs look at their results to date have generally been close affairs this cheetahs outfit are playing much better than previous years. They got the NZ monkey off their backs but one must look at who they were up against the team widely tipped to take the Wooden spoon by all and sundry.
in saying that dropping a 21pt lead is astounding and a choke of epic proportions
April 2nd 2012 @ 10:08am
Justin said | April 2nd 2012 @ 10:08am | Report comment
That Cheetahs/Canes match was a ripper for the spectators, the Cheetahs play a brilliant brand of football and are probably the best team to watch right now with a largely unheralded side.
April 2nd 2012 @ 10:25am
steve.h said | April 2nd 2012 @ 10:25am | Report comment
Atleast there is someone from this part of the world that can appreciated South African rugby!!
April 2nd 2012 @ 11:36am
Sprigs said | April 2nd 2012 @ 11:36am | Report comment
It’s great that the SA people support super rugby by putting their money down for seats at the ground. They had a decent crowd — about 50,000 – and they saw a fantastic game with incredible skills on display.
It was great to see the big crowd in Perth. The victory of the home side could boost interest in rugby in the great State of WA.
Despite their brilliant, high speed and highly entertaining teams (better than last year’s?) , the NZers don’t seem to be flocking to super rugby games.There were probably more people in Wellington’s cable car than were watching the excellent game, Hurricanes v Cheetahs.
One person posting said that many NZers can only be bothered watching now if the ABs are playing, partly because the franchises combine former “enemy” provinces.
Is that true?
April 2nd 2012 @ 3:02pm
nickoldschool said | April 2nd 2012 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
Crowds were pretty disappointing this w-e, 6 matches attracting less than 15K (only stormers v bulls had 45k+)
Invercargill: 7980
Wellington: 11783
Hamilton: 11643
Perth: 13034
Canberra: 13128
Jo’Burg: 14677
For the record, Harlequins v Saracens had a record 83.761 in London while stade francais v toulouse attracted 72000 in Paris.
April 2nd 2012 @ 3:32pm
King of the Gorgonites said | April 2nd 2012 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
yes some disappoiting numbers, but it seemed that some of the lesser draw locations were all home matches this week. next week Brisbane should see 35K.
April 2nd 2012 @ 4:04pm
NF said | April 2nd 2012 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
KOG
Are you should of 35k considering the Reds slump as of late, some of the theater goers and casuals might no stick around but we wait and see then to see how fateful and loyal the Reds fan-base is by sorting out the diehards from the band-wagoners.
April 2nd 2012 @ 4:29pm
King of the Gorgonites said | April 2nd 2012 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
NF, they have 30K members. so they dont need to many more to turn up to get that kind of figure.
April 2nd 2012 @ 5:31pm
Lippy said | April 2nd 2012 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
that is based on the presumption those 30k turn up KOG.
One must remember the memberships were sold pre season and you can guarantee that many will be questioning their investments now.
Its easier to support a winning team opposed to a team struggling for form of any note.
April 2nd 2012 @ 7:04pm
RebelRanger said | April 2nd 2012 @ 7:04pm | Report comment
@KoG: (serious question not being sarcastic) 30,000+ season ticket holdings members? How many of those 30,000+ are just ‘Forever Red’ members.
April 2nd 2012 @ 3:23pm
nomis said | April 2nd 2012 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
Apparently, so far this year for Super Rugby in NZ, numbers at games are up and also numbers watching on TV are up: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/6666422/NZRU-advancing-plans-for-North-South-match
But it’s still so early in the season and not worth making general conclusions about what spectators must be thinking and where it’s all going.
April 2nd 2012 @ 5:24pm
Onor said | April 2nd 2012 @ 5:24pm | Report comment
the nz public is fickle. and the rise of super rugby has seen the demise of the provinces..
thames valley… king country.. etc!! i mean.. the highlanders combines southland and otago..
one of the great rivalries in provincial rugby.. an old guy at work told me stories of how
50 000 people would gather and take the walk from the trainstation to the stadium.. and
pile into the stadium and those left just packed out the near by bars.. counties v auckland was another
huge rivalry.. but has since died.. and many people here believe super rugby is to the benefit
of australia.. because nz need australia for a competitive bledisloe series.. so yea.. what
can you do.. the nz public is well aware that super rugby is a product of news media.. they’re
calling all the shots and have ruined the game.. i’d honestly say ppl here are fed up!! theyve had
enough.. the game they loved has been lost.. so yea.. its kinda dying.. but the all blacks
will always be there. In a way.. it’s like the country is boycotting (unofficially) i mean more and
more people are getting there sky TV cut off aswell!! Rugby is in trouble in new zealand.. I’d
say after the AB’s.. college rugby has the biggest following.
April 2nd 2012 @ 6:37pm
RebelRanger said | April 2nd 2012 @ 6:37pm | Report comment
Hopefully the college competition can grow into something resembling the college games in the U.S.
Which might lead to something along the lines of “And with the first pick of the 2020 draft, the Otago Highlanders take Ken James of Kelston Boys”
April 2nd 2012 @ 11:08pm
p.Tah said | April 2nd 2012 @ 11:08pm | Report comment
People always look back with rose tinted glasses.
April 3rd 2012 @ 10:20am
Lippy said | April 3rd 2012 @ 10:20am | Report comment
you would include yourself in this statement ?
April 2nd 2012 @ 9:04am
ilikedahoodoogurusingha said | April 2nd 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
By the way Spiro, the Brumbies have 18 points. They got a bonus point for losing by less than 7 on Saturday night, so will still be ahead of Tahs, Rebels and Force no matter what happens on Friday night against the Reds.
April 2nd 2012 @ 11:53am
Sam Taulelei said | April 2nd 2012 @ 11:53am | Report comment
Yes but a Brumbies loss leave the Oz conference in a very difficult position for the leader to stay in touch with the top four sides on the overall table.
At the moment the top four sides have as a minimum, the equivalent of an extra victory separating them from the Brumbies. Even if the Force knock over the Chiefs and the Stormers knock over the Highlanders this weekend, that differential will still exist if the Brumbies lose to the Reds when teams move into round 8.
Round 8 sees two more local Aussie derbies which guarantees two more losses for Aussie teams and the Reds, Hurricanes and Highlanders having a bye with four points each in the bank.
The worst result this weekend for Aussie rugby would be a loss for the Brumbies, and a win for the Chiefs, Crusaders and the Stormers.
That would open a gap of at least 10 points between the Brumbies and Stormers if the Stormers win, 8 points between them and the Chiefs and Highlanders if they win, 6 points between them and the Bulls if they win and 4 points between them and the Crusaders if they win.
So it’s important the Brumbies beat the Reds and move to 22 points this weekend.
April 2nd 2012 @ 12:01pm
The Bush said | April 2nd 2012 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
Sam,
I think you mean “a Brumbies loss leave the OZ conference in a very difficult position for the second placed side to stay in touch with the top four sides on the overall table.
The Conference leader in Australia makes the finals no matter what, even if they’re the seventh worst side over all – that’s the point of the Conference system.
What is shaping up to happen is that only one (1) Aussie side will make it in, because only the Brumbies would even make a top eight finals system right now.
Considering I believe the Reds are heading for a loss this weekend, I can’t see how they’ll make the finals unless the Brumbies drop their lead (which will result in the Brumbies missing out all together).
I think this finals series will go – AUS 1, NZ 3 and RSA 2 and that AUS qualifier might only make it due to the system, rather than points.
April 2nd 2012 @ 12:14pm
Sam Taulelei said | April 2nd 2012 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
Yes you’re right about the conference winner qualifying by default.
My point was more about the Brumbies remaining in touch so they can push for a home semifinal or final which has proven to be paramount for success.
April 2nd 2012 @ 6:53pm
Nathan of Perth said | April 2nd 2012 @ 6:53pm | Report comment
We might be having to revisit that weakest conference question again, sigh.
April 2nd 2012 @ 7:10pm
RebelRanger said | April 2nd 2012 @ 7:10pm | Report comment
I thought it was solved when they counted all the games between teams of different countries. It’s really the best way to compare as points on the table are irrelevant due to some teams playing bottom teams on a more frequent basis
April 2nd 2012 @ 12:32pm
ilikedahoodoogurusingha said | April 2nd 2012 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
Agreed Sam. The Brumbies definitely need to win this weekend in terms of the rest of the table; I was basically just attempting to point out that there was an error in the piece, and to point out to some of the more Sydney centric observers that despite all predictions before the season, we (The Brumbies), are not just there to make up the numbers!
April 2nd 2012 @ 9:06am
El Gamba said | April 2nd 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Spiro, I think that your comment regarding Australia’s lack of firepower out wide is of most concern. No-one has really stood up thus far and you rightly say AAC and Horne have hardly been dynamic to date.
We are grasping at straws with Mogg and Shipperley, at least this early in their careers. There are things to like but the reality is neither of them would probably get a game for a NZ or SA franchise this year. Cummins? Well I love the Force and he had a good game but he will have brain explosions from time to time and I don’t think he is Wallaby material (again, would he get a run in SA or NZ?)
Ultimately I think Beale, Ioane and JOC will come good out wide for the Wallabies and, as mentioned by others, the issue will be to get centres that can take enough pressure off them so that they can perform.
April 2nd 2012 @ 9:52am
King of the Gorgonites said | April 2nd 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Team of the week = Cheetahs.
April 2nd 2012 @ 3:04pm
nickoldschool said | April 2nd 2012 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
Agree! Scrum-half Van Zyl and prop Oosthuisen were superb!
April 2nd 2012 @ 10:05am
Sam Taulelei said | April 2nd 2012 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Spiro a slight correction to your comment about the margin of defeat in the four losses to date for the Force. Half of their losses have been by more than 15 points.
Interestingly of the the thirteen games this season where the margin of defeat has been greater than 10 points, eight of the losing teams have been Australian sides.
The Rebels have lost three times by a margin greater than 10, the Force and Reds have twice lost by more than 10 points. The Tahs once. The Brumbies two losses have been within the margin of a converted try. The Lions have twice lost by moe than 10, the other three sides are the Cheetahs, Blues and Hurricanes.
For the good of the competition one or two of the Australian teams need to make up ground on their inter conference rivals quickly as it’s not a good prospect to have five of the top six sides equal and ahead on points of the Oz conference leader and for that pattern to continue heading deeper into the competition.
April 2nd 2012 @ 12:14pm
sittingbison said | April 2nd 2012 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
yup, but two of the four losses by the Force were by one point and two points.
April 2nd 2012 @ 12:36pm
Sam Taulelei said | April 2nd 2012 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
Correct, so half of them does not mean “Most of these losses have been close.”
April 2nd 2012 @ 7:00pm
Nathan of Perth said | April 2nd 2012 @ 7:00pm | Report comment
Its kind of upsetting because you would be hoping that about now we would be starting to see the fruits of the 2003 World Cup buzz coming through the player development pipeline – the star struck kids who hopped on the code. Not sure we have that much coming through to keep pace with SA and NZ.
However, Force has finally started to graduate local players, hopefully with a few years of work the Rebels can commence the same. Fully exploiting the potential player bases of the country will help, rather than simply relying on NSW and QLD to grow everything.
April 3rd 2012 @ 4:38am
Justin said | April 3rd 2012 @ 4:38am | Report comment
Nath Vic Rugby has produced numerous SR players. Johanssen is the first to come home. They have had and still do have more SR players than WA.
April 2nd 2012 @ 10:10am
bennalong said | April 2nd 2012 @ 10:10am | Report comment
I don’t agree El gamba, with your comments re Cummins
Spiro, you on the other hand read my mind! All three stood out and I’d include young Tommy Kingston who is super consistent and usually beats two. Mogg is the complete package and has a huge future.
Back to Cummins. This bloke has been playing in a poorly performing side and playing on the wing. Got too few chances but always willing. He’s got bottle and to keep giving your all week in week out,( losing losing losing,) as he’s done shows his ticker. His brain explosions, El Gamba, may be a result of geeing himself up to keep performing against the odds!
Now the team has a backline that’s building self belief and he’s playing as a centre which suits his Kamikaze style.
I’m cheering for him and predict he’s found his position.
April 2nd 2012 @ 1:20pm
El Gamba said | April 2nd 2012 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
“His brain explosions, El Gamba, may be a result of geeing himself up to keep performing against the odds!”
I actually think that is spot on but I still don’t know if he is Wallabies material in terms of ball handling and decision making. His run straight over Murphy in the lead up to their last try was fantastic!
April 2nd 2012 @ 3:35pm
PeterK said | April 2nd 2012 @ 3:35pm | Report comment
Cummins is easily Wallabies material at 13 when you consider the competition, Horne the incumbent has been average in attack and defence, AAC the previous incumbent age has caught up with him, Faingaa / Tapua / McCabe are the other alternatives and none of them are Wallaby material either in terms of ball handling / decision making. Sure Cummins may not be the complete article or as good as Mortlock or Herbert in their prime but IMO is the best of the current lot for 13.
Cummins has always given his all and played hard and is atheltic, good on his feet and fast. He will do me.
April 2nd 2012 @ 8:12pm
RebelRanger said | April 2nd 2012 @ 8:12pm | Report comment
Who did Ben Humphries shrug off for his try? “Shrugged off like he wasn’t there” was the description used in the game.
April 2nd 2012 @ 8:27pm
PeterK said | April 2nd 2012 @ 8:27pm | Report comment
so what, Cummins was running in from the other wing at full pace and could not get him after a lot more missed tackles first.
So a guy mising 1 tackle means they should be ineligible from higher honours?
Sometime I wonder the rational or lack of comments from people.
April 3rd 2012 @ 7:52am
RebelRanger said | April 3rd 2012 @ 7:52am | Report comment
OTHER WING?! What are you talking about sir? Cummins was marking Beau Robinson who passed the ball to Simmons (?) who drew in 2 players and offloaded to Humphries. Wouldn’t say anyone missed a tackle as opposed to making an ineffectual one.
So ‘Honey Bee’ had to run past ONE player to get to the try scorer. His inability to effectively track and not overrun a player is what is being questioned. Especially considering your asking him to play 13 for the Wallabies where you have to mark both your opposite 13 and 15 as well when your 15 drops to cover kicks. The fact he didn’t easily catch Humphries has me questioning whether he would have even got there had it been a back and whether that is acceptable without. I won’t even bother harassing him for that poor attempt of a tackle when he did catch up to Humphries because I’m sure it’s not his fault he tried to tackle chest to chest as opposed to shoulder to hip. As most of you other Australians seem to think ‘should be fine once he puts a Gold (but really looks yellow) jersey on.
Sometimes I wonder why some people put up poor arguments which they feel must be validated by personal attacks.
April 2nd 2012 @ 10:27am
bennalong said | April 2nd 2012 @ 10:27am | Report comment
My concern with the Australian sides, especially the Tahs who were looking to off load earlier, is the excessive reliance on pick and drive.
It can be brutally effective but it has limitations and it’s boring and lacking invention.
But they’re all going back to conservative defensive styles, terrified to offload so going to ground to start all over again. Well not ALL
The Cheetahs show that if you keep working on speed you build your skills and confidence and your error rate drops eventually. You start to dominate
Jake white has brought speed back to the Brumbies by working on passing skills and confidence. The Brumbies will lead the Aussie conference unless the Tahs get their confidence and skills going, which is probable against some lesser sides
April 2nd 2012 @ 10:49am
Justin said | April 2nd 2012 @ 10:49am | Report comment
Skills are all important Benn no questions and so is fitness. The Tahs backline showed that despite a dominant pack their lack of skill killed them particularly 10-12-13.
Thye pick and go is an excellent tactic but like everything you need moderation or you become predictable. So a 10-15 minute burst of it and then move to the next tactic can be a good option. The defence will be looking to come in close after this period and then you change tack and find space out wider.
April 2nd 2012 @ 10:57am
Johnno said | April 2nd 2012 @ 10:57am | Report comment
Benn Robinson really let me down this weekend. If he is our no 1 prop we are in big trouble the wallabies.
He scrummages well but does nothing else in the match. He is slow too the breakdown as well.
And Tom Carter is not up to it either. I knew vs the sharks facing a regular super 15 player Meyer Bosman, he was made to look good.
His real test to see if he is up to higher honours would be VS SBW and Richard Kahui.
And SBW and Kahui dominated Tom carter. Bigger stronger , faster more skilled just 2 better rugby players. i don’t think Tom Carter will handle ma nonu either. So for me Tom Carter’s name should be scratched for wallaby honours after that match vs the chiefs.
He had a real test (not meter bowman), and failed vs SBW and Kahui. Jamie roberts, Nonu, Frans steyn, Jdevilliers, robbie freun, would all be to big and too strong for tom carter.
pat Mcabe , rob horne, the other brumes 12, or Taps , are the contenders for no 12.
But not tom carter.
April 2nd 2012 @ 12:18pm
sittingbison said | April 2nd 2012 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
Johnno, there is no way McCabe should ever be at 12 again for the Wallabies, that was a brain fart by Dingo that patently did not work. And for all the talk past few years about Horne, he has been terrible this year and does not warrant selection, and anyway he is a 13 not a 12.
April 2nd 2012 @ 12:26pm
Johnno said | April 2nd 2012 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
So sittingbison who do you want as the wallaby no 12.
April 2nd 2012 @ 2:20pm
jameswm said | April 2nd 2012 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
I think 12 has to be JOC, Barnes and Leali’ifano, in that order. If Cooper’s unavailable, one of them moves to 10.
April 2nd 2012 @ 2:30pm
Johnno said | April 2nd 2012 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
JOC he cant tackle well enough for no 12 at the top level. His defence was awful vs the highlanders, what chance do you think he has of tackling
SBW 6’3 105kg, NONU 6’0 106kg, KAHUI 6’3 105kg, jamie roberts 6’4 110kg, JDEVILLIERS, 6’3 105kg and frans steyn 6’3 105kg, or robbie fruen 6’4 110kg, 6’7 matt bangahan 112kg, or manu tuilagi 6’0 101kg
JOC defence was not up to it vs the highlandrers , he is not big enough to be a top class no 12.
Pat mace is 6’1 and can tackle the best defender just about in world rugby, every I/C who has faced him doe snot like marking up on Mcabe. Just ask Ma Nonu how highly he rates Mcabe’s defence jameswm he always gives mace big wraps.
April 2nd 2012 @ 6:20pm
RebelRanger said | April 2nd 2012 @ 6:20pm | Report comment
Agreed JOC’s complete missed tackle on Jimmy Cowan was pathetic. Didn’t even touch him
April 2nd 2012 @ 8:35pm
RebelRanger said | April 2nd 2012 @ 8:35pm | Report comment
After watching ‘Super Rugby Extra’ the Highlanders first try came when the Highlanders centre stepped strolled past JOC to set up the pass to Ben Smith who put an embarrassing fend on Phibbs.
April 2nd 2012 @ 3:39pm
PeterK said | April 2nd 2012 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
currently I would have Lealiifano at 12 and JoC on the wing given Mitchell may not be back to form and fitness by the june test.
April 3rd 2012 @ 9:03pm
sittingbison said | April 3rd 2012 @ 9:03pm | Report comment
Johnno I’d probably have CLLF at 12, or maybe Barnes. 12 is about distribution, not brute force.
When he started Brand Judas was a remarkably good tackler for his size, tenacious and brave. It looks to me like Brand Judas has fallen into the trap of believing his (or his agents) own press, he is now a handbag wearing nancy boy, his hearts just not in it. We at the Force know all the symptoms, after Henjak, Gits, younger Mitchell, Valentine and finally seeing the fall of Judas.
April 3rd 2012 @ 9:14pm
Johnno said | April 3rd 2012 @ 9:14pm | Report comment
sitting I agree with you abbot JOC for sure his defence which is all about attitude has been a real let down, this year.
But no 12 defence is different to wing defence , a lot is form on, and the new breed of I/C are now massive men, and JOC simply doe snot have the size or for on tackling ability.
Rod Kafer did a video summary of this last year about the difference maces defence vs Barnes.
When Mcabe hits the player his momentum is killed, the ruck and maul is slowly formed and slow ball comes out.
When Banres tackles he can tackle but the runner drags Barnes along for more per average metres and quick ball is set thus the attacking momentum continues.
JOC defence was awful vs the highlanders simply can not see him handling SBW, Jamie Roberts, ma nonu,Richard Kahui types all simply to big too strong for JOC,.
JOC to wing or full back or on the bench for me, or id like JOC to try his luck at half back too. Far better than Nick Phibbs.
April 4th 2012 @ 4:13am
Justin said | April 4th 2012 @ 4:13am | Report comment
Half back is a great idea Johnno, they could try Saffy or Delve at 12, what do you think?
April 2nd 2012 @ 12:21pm
mattamkII said | April 2nd 2012 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
dont think anyone with a brain ever had carter in green and gold mate.
Solid provincial but just isn’t up to test level.
April 2nd 2012 @ 6:29pm
RebelRanger said | April 2nd 2012 @ 6:29pm | Report comment
I’m hoping this self proclaimed ‘Honey Badger’ retains his 13 jersey against SBW/ Kahui. Methinks Nick Cummins is up for a rude awakening. While I have no doubt he’s Australia’s best choice at 13 I’m 100% positive he will receive the same post match analysis as Tom Carter.
April 3rd 2012 @ 8:52pm
sittingbison said | April 3rd 2012 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
Not self proclaimed RR, that’s his crowd favourite “nick” name %)
He’s played entire career on the wing, you (and SBW et al) might be surprised at his acceleration and elusive running.