Where is Australian rugby’s Mike Delany?
By Brett McKay, 24 Apr 2012 Brett McKay is a Roar Expert
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- Mike Delany, Rugby Union, Super Rugby
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Highlander's Mike Delany in the tackle of Blue's Gareth Anscombe. AAP Image/SNPA, Dianne Manson
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Very early on in this Super Rugby round, something happened that nagged me for the rest of the weekend.
In the 12th minute of the Highlanders-Blues game under the laserlite roof in Dunedin on Friday night, prodigal Highlanders son Mike Delany threw a superb no-look inside pass from a scrum win for Hosea Gear, who angled away from the posts to find Shaun Treeby in support. Treeby crashed over in the corner to score the Highlanders’ first try of the night.
As far as set-piece plays go, it was hardly scientifically difficult, once again proving there’s often little match for simple plays executed with precision at pace.
Delany was back in the Highlanders’ no.10 jersey having answered an SOS from coach Jamie Joseph, following a Reds-like injury curse to flyhalves Colin Slade and Lima Sopoaga.
The 29-year-old slotted in seamlessly, kicking seven from nine off the tee, and putting on something of a playmaking master-class for most of the game, where the Highlanders ultimately got up 30-27.
There’s a back-story to Delany landing back in Dunedin, and it’s one that I had to look into further. While I could recall Delany playing Super Rugby, and I knew he had played for the All Blacks at some point, I couldn’t actually remember too much about him or even how recently he played.
It turns out Delany played nine games for the Highlanders in 2008, before playing another twenty-odd games for the Chiefs from 2009. After playing one test for the All Blacks against Italy at the end of 2010, Delany headed to Japan after last year’s Super Rugby season, and has been plying his trade over there for the Panasonic Wild Knights.
Though it had been rumoured in New Zealand for several weeks that Delany was coming back to fill the void created by the season-ending injuries to Slade and Sopoaga, even early last week Joseph was still only talking even money odds of the deal being completed.
The paperwork only came through last Tuesday, leaving Delany just three days to get accustomed with his new-but-old temporary surrounding. He’ll head straight back to Japan at the completion of the Highlanders’ season.
That pass in the 12th minute suggested that Delany had come through his Jamie Joseph Highlanders crash-course pretty well, and indeed the coach was raving about Delany’s preparation and performance post-match.
“He hasn’t played with us and had to take in a lot of information, game-plans, new guys and then gel into the position. I thought he might struggle with all that but he was outstanding,” Joseph told the New Zealand Fairfax press.
And good luck to him. If the Highlanders do play finals rugby this year, there’s little doubt the Delany repatriation – albeit only short-term – will have worked a treat.
Once all the feel-good died down after the Highlanders-Blues game, young Reds flyhalf Sam Lane’s awkwardly flexing knee started the nagging feeling I haven’t been able to shake since.
It seems every year the New Zealand teams have been able to call on quality playmakers of seasons past when the inevitable injury tolls strike. It feels like Tony Brown comes back every other year.
But with the Reds no.10 jersey now quite clearly hexed, and Quade Cooper’s return date still no clearer, who could the Reds have possibly called on if Mike Harris and Ben Lucas had not been fit to return as they did this weekend?
Where – or who, even – is Australia’s Mike Delany?
It’s a sobering thought. Already this year, the Brumbies have lost Matt Toomua for the season, the Reds had already lost Jono Lance and now Sam Lane, and the Force have been playing without a first-choice flyhalf since late in the pre-season.
Yet, aside from maybe Matt Giteau, I can’t think of any quality no.10s that Australian sides could look to bring back to ease a playmaking crisis, and that’s even assuming that the ARU would allow such a move.
Five or six years ago you could quite easily have pointed to several solid playmakers who’d only just headed overseas, guys like Chris Malone, Brock James, and even Dan Parks. But they might be the last of the decent quality no.10s who might’ve been enticed home. Who knows what’s happened to Lachie Mackay since he left the Force.
It seems that Australian players don’t head overseas until later in their careers, which means the gulf between first-choice and apprentice players in a Super Rugby squad is getting bigger by the year.
But without a proper second tier, we’re asking inexperienced young players to just click instantly in Super Rugby, where the intensity is as proportionally high as the margin for error is low. Sam Lane should never have had to find his feet in the deep end of Super Rugby.
Without Mike Delanys or Tony Browns to call on, we’re asking way too much of our rookies at this level. And if we’re no closer to a second tier, then we have to at least start looking at playing the ‘A’ teams as curtain-raisers before local Super Rugby derbies.
Let the Academy kids, the rookies, and the EPS’ers play at a level above club rugby, but without the cut and thrust of the SANZAR tournament.
Whatever the answer, something has to be done now.
We can’t just keep burning young players like we currently are.
Brett McKay is a former non-tackling scrumhalf and not-quite-1st Grade middle order stalwart. A rugby and cricket expert for The Roar since July 2009 (having joined in Sept 2008), Brett has written for Inside Rugby and Cricket Australia, and is also PLAY Canberra's rugby correspondent. He tweets from @BMcSport
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- Explore:
- Mike Delany, Rugby Union, Super Rugby


April 24th 2012 @ 5:15am
mania said | April 24th 2012 @ 5:15am | Report comment
brett – shame on you for proposing to be a rugby man and not knowing of delaneys worth. in your defence tho delany was very important and world famous in nz rugby.
delany is a pro and valued son of NZ. he was touted to be danCarters backup at some stage but decided to go over seas to get his nest egg. in the hilanders delany doesnt have to be a carter. all he has to do is keep the back line flowing. anything extra is a bonus…that no look pass was the bonus. its not about how individually good delany is its his professionalism and ability to slot into a team and understand the value of team work.
wheres aussie’s equivalent? there isnt any because player depth is spread so thin and your systems arent providing players quick enough. comes down to lack of grass roots. the 2nd tier u mention will happen once a good grassroots is in place. i’d suggest you send them to the ITM cup for a few years but there is a quota and i cant imagine nzrfu being happy about training aussies to beat the AB’s
April 24th 2012 @ 8:46am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
Mania, I did know who Delany was, as I mentioned, I just couldn’t place him or recall how recently it was. Something of an uppercut was applied when I discovered it was only last year!
Just on the ITM Cup, I’d love to see more young Australian players having stints over there, just as Christian Lealiifano did with Waikato a few seasons back. In fact I can see a day where the NZRU and ARU come together with this comp. I accept I’ll be in a minority on this, and I say this with no disrespect to the history and the traditions of the NPC, but I can see a day coming where the answer the ongoing financial issues for this comp will be found in the form of the inclusion of Australian teams and funding.
It might be a win-win situation: the NZ unions survive at this level, and Australian rugby gets another tier…
April 24th 2012 @ 8:54am
mania said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:54am | Report comment
brett, it was tongue in cheek, dont blame you for not knowing everything bout delany. like i said world famous in NZ
in regards to aussies playing ITM, i’m totally against it sorry. unless the players can genuinely play and contribute at that level. not saying that ITM is an elite comp just dont want to see club level players turning up and ruining it. definately allow fringe super talent who are good enough but allowing an open door policy ? no way. ITM has survived, just; despite SR. allowing club level players access will just kill it off.
aus needs to develop its own structures and grassroots and build from the bottom up.
April 24th 2012 @ 9:04am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
and that’s a fair response Mania. For what it’s worth, I’d only want the current Aust SR sides to field ITM teams, so ideally I’d be playing those guys on the fringe of the SR teams now. I certainly take your point about club players reducing the level though, and that’s also why I’d only want five teams.
In the end, I guess it doesn’t matter how it happens, but you are quite right, Australia needs to develop something..
April 24th 2012 @ 9:49am
mania said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
brett – wow 5 teams?!?! i was thinking maybe 20-30 odd players spread out amongst the existing NZ teams. this is NZ’s domestic comp. if aus were allowed into it then another domestic comp would have to be created. dont see the point as our domestic comp (despite SR encroaching on the calendar) is working fine as is.
April 24th 2012 @ 10:13am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:13am | Report comment
that was my whole point Mania – I can see it becoming the domestic comp for both countries..
April 24th 2012 @ 10:09am
Rugbug said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:09am | Report comment
i don’;t see how it would work adding Australian teams. As it is we all know thje ARU can not afford to have its own domestic competition due to financial issues so how would combining Australian teams into the ITM cup increase revenue?
Th NZ provinces already struggle with the cost of travel within New Zealand and by adding Australian teams this would further add strain on finances with international travel and extended hotel stays.
This would kill off the smaller unions all to benefit Australian rugby and that CANNOT be allowed to happen.
I am not oppossed to a few Australians playing in the current ITM and Heartland teams though, hell a few Aussies running around in the Heartland competition could not only be good for their own development but also raise the standard of the Heartland championship.
April 24th 2012 @ 10:40am
mania said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:40am | Report comment
yeah brett, as rugbug points out ITM isnt just the 1st division teams, theres another 2 divisions to take into account.
basically aus needs to come up with its own domestic comp or have teams in the 2nd or 3rd division before they would be allowed to qualify for the 1st div.
April 24th 2012 @ 10:56am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:56am | Report comment
I do know that Mania, the various divisions, but it doesn’t necessarily change my view. And it’s just that, a view, and most likely a minority one at that..
April 24th 2012 @ 11:13am
Lippy said | April 24th 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Agree with you both Rug and Mania,
I certainly would not grudge Australians playing within the current provinces from Lahore and Meads cup teams right through to the Championship and Premiership unions.
The benefits young Australian players could gain by living and breathing rugby in the heartland competition could and would be huge. East Coast for example their community support is second to none in NZ and the rugby team are local superstars, they play with a passion and pride that is at times lacking in the larger provinces. They play because they love the game something that seems lacking in.many Australian players, it’s like they’ve forgotten why they started playing rugby in the first instance.
Lastly its an emphatic no from me to Australian teams being included in the ITM cup.
April 24th 2012 @ 12:28pm
Justin said | April 24th 2012 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
Why is it that it’s Aussies who play for money and kiwis play for the love? Serious rubbish generalizations written with no facts to back up the claims amongst this thread. And any above average Sydney/Brisbane club player would be more than capable play in the top division. Playing in lower division would be good for colts nit seniors.
April 24th 2012 @ 12:35pm
mania said | April 24th 2012 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
nah justin – most Sydney/Brisbane club player would get slaughtered in ITM cup.Sydney/Brisbane club players might make in our club comps but most wouldnt be able to handle it. i’m not being conceited just basing it on the average aus SR player and most of them dont deserve to be in SR.
not sure where its said that “Why is it that it’s Aussies who play for money and kiwis play for the love? “. our grassroots is definately done for love because there is no money in it.
April 24th 2012 @ 2:01pm
Lippy said | April 24th 2012 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
Once again Justin you fly off the handle and manipulate what is actually said. Take the time to read and remember to breath.
What I Said and Mania has supported is that the Auspices players seem to be lacking the love for the game that we all have – had when we first started playing the game.
The young up and coming should I reiterate that for you Justin?
The emerging talent in Australian club rugby would benefit greatly from living and breathing rugby in the provincial heartlands where they play with the pride and passion not seen so much in many of the larger provinces ala Akl, wgtn etc
But as usual you don’t read the comment for what it is an post some over the top aggressive rebuttal.
Again as mania says many club players in Australia would struggle at ITM premiership level not all but a few would benefit more by starting off playing a season or to for Wanganui or Waitara Bush for example two of the powerhouses of the Heartland championship. You do realise all the provinces run their own club competitions from which their provincial teams are selected?
lastly in.mu post you will see where I clearly stated I wouldve not be adverse to seeing Australian players ply there trade throughout the NZ domestic competions from the Meads cup right through to Premiership.
April 24th 2012 @ 2:44pm
Lippy said | April 24th 2012 @ 2:44pm | Report comment
* Wairarapa Bush
April 24th 2012 @ 2:55pm
Rugbug said | April 24th 2012 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
I see exactly where you are coming from Lippy / Mania.
Sadly however it seems your posts have been interpreted the wrong way, not sure how but they have. It is blatantly obvious what you both were saying but thats just my opinion.
As for the club players in Australia I very much doubt many would make the jump straight into ITM cup level. It again is that step above club rugby and below Super Rugby. The top clubs in Auckland for example Ponsonby and Teachers Eastern could easily hold their own in the Sydney / Brisbane Club competitions as would Oriental Rongotai and Poneke from Wellington not to mention clubs like New Plymouth Old Boys and Tukapa United from Taranaki.
It seems many Australians disregard or simply don’t understand as Lippy has said above that beneath each provincial union be they Premiership or Heartland teams they have a thriving club competition from which their provincial unions are selected.
So in essence the best of the local clubs in the area are combined to form the provincial team.
Now to break it down greater Auckland supports three senior club competitions and therefore three Provinicial unions. Those being North Harbour, Auckland and Counties Manukau.
April 24th 2012 @ 4:34pm
Justin said | April 24th 2012 @ 4:34pm | Report comment
I tried write this earlier. Syd/Bris player who are I above average could comepete at ITM level. I have played with and against many player from Pony’s 1st grade all very good but hardly works beaters. You are underestimate the strength if Syd/Bris rugby which is not divided into 3 comps like Auckland region is. These player s were good first grade players in Melbiurne! In Sydney they would have been run of the mill, some good, some not so. Sydney us a huge catchment and is strong because this.
If heartland is 3rd division then they would not benefit at all except may e in purely more matches.
Lippy on what basis do you make the judgement about Aus players and their love if the game? Just because you and mania think that doesn’t make it so.
Rug if the Aucand clubs could compete with Sydney surely it stands to reason those Sydney plates are capable of going to the next level as their kiwi counterparts do?
April 24th 2012 @ 4:44pm
Lippy said | April 24th 2012 @ 4:44pm | Report comment
God Justin do you actually read what is written.
I said the Australian players seem.to lack the love if the game that you see in the NZ teams I never said the didn’t love the game.
April 24th 2012 @ 6:16pm
Justin said | April 24th 2012 @ 6:16pm | Report comment
And that is based on what Lippy? All I ask is for some basis for your statement. Thats not asking too much is it?
I am well aware of how the Auckland region is structured, if you had read my post properly
April 24th 2012 @ 6:37pm
Lippy said | April 24th 2012 @ 6:37pm | Report comment
Your simply looking to pick a fight Justin as always you really are becoming quite tiresome.
Do I really have to spell it out for you?
The Australian players SEEM to lack the love that NZ players have.
Now lets go over that again for you “They SEEM to lack the love”
This is an opinion forum I was giving an opinion on my observation Justin do you understand the concept of giving an opinion. NOWHERE ever did I claim this was a FACT nor did I claim it to be.
Give it a rest and talk about what is written not what you manipulate it to be!
April 24th 2012 @ 8:19pm
Justin said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:19pm | Report comment
Who said anything about fact? Believe me I know it isnt…
April 24th 2012 @ 8:22pm
Lippy said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:22pm | Report comment
You’ve got nothing it up
April 24th 2012 @ 11:57am
zhenry said | April 24th 2012 @ 11:57am | Report comment
The whole idea of a second tier (as you call it) is to feed your premier level, why would you want to mix that up with another country (mixing it up with SA for example)? Totally defeats the purpose of developing your own talent to defeat other countries. So BM, given up on your home union developing a second tier; try and poach and incorporate another country’s second tier, as it happens one of your top rivals, unheard of except on here.
But I have more derision for the NZers who, without integrity, don’t focus on their own country but who are always willing to see the ‘other’ point of view.
They would make good business operators for profit for the next quarter, but as for the vision required to lead the NZRU into the perilous future, they have not a clue.
Ignorance and certainty; selling off the NZ media to a foreign country (as it happened AU) was a disaster, something anybody with a modicum of political knowledge could see, except most NZers, they still don’t get it. There is no hope.
Except for you, ‘without conscience Brett McKay’, keep at it, NZers will see your point of view and oblige.
April 24th 2012 @ 12:13pm
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
I’m really not sure how to respond to this, zhenry. I’m not sure if you’re having a shot at me or NZ…
April 24th 2012 @ 12:16pm
mania said | April 24th 2012 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
bm – me niether. the 2nd half of the blog is vague
zHenry what exactly are u alluding to?
April 25th 2012 @ 8:08am
Muzza said | April 25th 2012 @ 8:08am | Report comment
zhenry got fired from his last job in a media company. Talk about a chip.
April 25th 2012 @ 7:46pm
mikeylives said | April 25th 2012 @ 7:46pm | Report comment
So true. Stop brainwashing new zealanders Brett.
Maybe the roar will go .co.nz as well – could be an opening for you (and your Murdoch/McKay-suppressed views) zhenry.
April 24th 2012 @ 6:23pm
Justin said | April 24th 2012 @ 6:23pm | Report comment
Mania if the club players arent good enough they wont be selected. It comes down to more what NZRU wants the competition to be – the best comp it can be or purely a development comp, like the Sheffield Shield in cricket in AUS.
What are the rules around foreigners playing in the ITM Cup? Clearly club players from AUS have done well there in the past but is there a quota at all?
April 26th 2012 @ 5:22am
mania said | April 26th 2012 @ 5:22am | Report comment
theres a quota but not sure the level. at a guess i’d 3 players per province as i usualy dont see more imports than that.
basically the fact that there arent any aus club players in the ITM is testament that they’re not good enough. if they were and wanted to come to ITM they’d signed up at the drop of a hat.
your statement “It comes down to more what NZRU wants the competition to be – the best comp it can be or purely a development comp. “, purely a development comp? shows your lack of understanding. ITM has a life and following of its own in NZ. it would be developemntal for any foreigners playing but for NZ its a dog eat dog competition. ITM(NPC) is what used to produce AB’s for over half a century before SR came along.
April 24th 2012 @ 6:49pm
Die hard said | April 24th 2012 @ 6:49pm | Report comment
It might be a very small minority of Aussies only. I struggle to see any rugby blooded Kiwi allowing an Aussie team into the ITM. The general thought might be more that the Wallabies get enough of a leg-up by their exposure now to the Super standard rugby. There is such a thing as wanting their own young Kiwi kids getting a run too. Spaces are limited and the standards are high. Maybe best just hoping one or two more individuals might go over for the experience. Dont forget Christian Lealiifano has many relatives back home that gave him transport accomodation and family, not many others might be able to support themselves.
April 25th 2012 @ 12:23am
bluerose said | April 25th 2012 @ 12:23am | Report comment
brett Australia’s Mike Delany is playing his rugby for Clermont “Brock James”
April 24th 2012 @ 6:08am
Moaman said | April 24th 2012 @ 6:08am | Report comment
Nice to find an interesting article this morning Brett! I mentioned the other day just how well Mike Delaney had slotted in,on a Reds Lament thread….pointing out that he was 4th choice at the Highlanders after their shocking spate of injuries to men in 10. Pot Hale seems to delight in pointing to the incredibly attritional aspect of Super/Southern Hemisphere rugby.He may even have mooted that no 3N side would take Bill due to the fact that we wouldn’t have anyone left standing! While it’s obvious that Australia needs a 2nd Tier to mirror it’s erstwhile 3N partners it would be fair to say too that NZ’s cupboard is’nt exactly brimming over with ready replacements also.Something like 180 NZers plying their profession in Britain/Ireland/France alone;not to mention Japan.It would be interesting to take an overview and see whether or not ‘our’ players Down Under are more prone to injury than their northrn counterparts,and why.The increasingly gladitorial aspect of the game at the higher levels could have far-reaching implications.I’m sure the IRB,in it’s infinite wisdom,will have commissioned studies……
April 24th 2012 @ 8:50am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Moa, it would certainly be an interetsing study, even just to compare the attrition rates from Super Rugby to the likes of the Heinekken Cup, to see how things equate. Whatever the outcome, it’s a worry on both sides of the Tasman that squad sizes are being trimmed while more players than ever are being used. And yet in South AFrica, their players associaton is wanting squads of 45 or 50!
I know it’s a financial move, but the timing really couldn’t be much worse…
April 24th 2012 @ 6:59am
kingplaymaker said | April 24th 2012 @ 6:59am | Report comment
The heart of this article appears to be that young players have physical problems stepping up to Super rugby because of the absence of a second tier, and that there aren’t so many talented back-up players because of the absence of a second tier. This would indeed seem to be borne out by the injuries to young players this year. There was talk that Jordan Rapana ‘the rugby superstar that got away’, and the two Queensland prodigies Chris Feauai-Sautia and UJ Seuteni would change Deans’ selection options, but all three were injured almost before they had got on the field, two of them in training it seems. So it could well be that the physical demands of Super rugby are too strenous for these youths without another level in between.
This doubtless affects the numbers of back-up players too, but there is also the pillaging of young talent by the NRL, and the Toyota Cup, which although they still affect New Zealand do so less.
April 24th 2012 @ 8:54am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:54am | Report comment
KPM, I’ve got to call you on this: I cannot remember a single mention, let alone “…talk that Jordan Rapana ‘the rugby superstar that got away’, and the two Queensland prodigies Chris Feauai-Sautia and UJ Seuteni would change Deans’ selection options…” In fact the only mentions of them I’ve read have been from you. If you are indeed based in the UK, you obviously do read different papers and websites to me, but aside from Rapana making his debut for the Force a few weeks ago, I’ve read precious little about these guys..
April 24th 2012 @ 9:14am
kingplaymaker said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:14am | Report comment
Same websites, perhaps the reason you haven’t read about them is that they were injured before firing a shot. The second two are 17, and one suspects to make the Queensland Reds at that age requires a hefty amount of talent. With Rapana he scored five tries in his first five NRL matches for the Gold Coast Titans, the youngest player in the club’s history at 18-so it seems he has some talent, though after a two year Mormon mission how he turns out remains to be seen. He weighs 100kg which is always useful. Seuteni the ‘Schoolboy prodigy’ and Feauai-Sautia ‘the most talked about player since the young Kurtley Beale’ were described by Mckenzie in the following way:
‘“UJ (Seuteni) is a really interesting prospect and is highly regarded by numerous people who I value for their judgement,” McKenzie said.
“Unfortunately he has been injured most of this season but he has a really strong Rugby pedigree and has enormous potential. He is an intelligent and athletic kid and we are eager to assess how good he can be during the next 12 months.
“With Sautia also joining us next season we have two of the most highly regarded schoolboys in Australia. That just reinforces our willingness to look outside the box in recruitment and that our development pathways aren’t being ignored.”’
Both would undoubtedly have played if not injured as Feauai-Sautia was on the bench when injured and Seuteni was above others who have player 10 in the pecking order before being injured himself.
April 24th 2012 @ 9:25am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
so how exactly are/were two 17 year olds going to “change Deans’ selection options”?? That sounds like another classic case of going off far too early..
(And I think I’m thinking of the wrong Rapana, too. It’s Joel over at the Force, not Jordan.)
April 24th 2012 @ 9:35am
kingplaymaker said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:35am | Report comment
In my opinion Brett the Australian backline is 5 stars plus 2 fill-ins. The fill-ins have qualities, but almost never add anything in attack to the team and because therefore they are not making breaks, scoring etc..loses the team matches. So those youths could taken the star level up to 7 out of 7, the level needed in my opinion to beat the All Blacks regularly.
In any case I didn’t say they would, but more that they might.
April 24th 2012 @ 9:58am
nickoldschool said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:58am | Report comment
There is a young french-aussie dude doing well on the wing these days. his name is Marvin O’Connor, he is the son of an ex aussie RL player who moved to France and settled there in the 90s. He’s playing for Bayonne, scored a try last w-e in Lyon and all i have been reading about him is how talented the young guy is(small and elusive wing, 80kgs, french way!). Dunno if we could claim him back here if he decided to move to Oz?! He has been selected with France u-20 and just turned 21.
April 24th 2012 @ 10:06am
kingplaymaker said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
nos I think in Australia Jake White shows how you have to look far and wide for any talent. I think under 21s is the critical point of committment for players though.
April 24th 2012 @ 10:54am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:54am | Report comment
there’s far too many assumptions in this line of thinking, KPM, even to suggest that they ‘might’…
April 25th 2012 @ 12:24am
Ben S said | April 25th 2012 @ 12:24am | Report comment
Marvin O’Connor has already featured for the French side at the most recent youth WC. How does that affect his eligibility? Is the French youth side nominated as their ‘A’ side?
April 24th 2012 @ 1:27pm
sittingbison said | April 24th 2012 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Brett I think its Jordan at the Force, but he got season long injury at pre season training
April 24th 2012 @ 9:07am
gatesy said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
..for some time, now I have had a nagging feeling that a lot of these injuries might come about because of excessive conditioning in the pre-season, in non-game situations. After all, these are mostly young fit guys,who should be reasonably well insulated against injury and who should recover quickly.
I’m not a strength or fitness expert (you only have to look at my profile to see that!), but it all seems too coincidental to me. Are the coaches and trainers doing enough, for instance to ensure that weight traiining is not putting too much strain on important joints, such as knees? Are there better forms of match conditioning? Sure there be more emphasis on game situations in the early pre-season?
I wonder if the ARU or the franchises are actively looking at that aspect.
April 24th 2012 @ 10:02am
Rugby Diehard said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:02am | Report comment
Gatesy – I would preface my comments with a similar admission as to my own “conditioning” but you are probably right. However, as someone who played club rugby for many years with guys who were “mostly young fit guys, who should be reasonably well insulated against such injury and who recover quickly” I can assure you that at the start of the season at my club there were always enough players for 8 full teams – the club would get excited and enter 6 teams in the comp and by mid-season it was always the same predicament – there would be 30 or 50 injured and unavailable and suddenly there were not enough players to fill the 6 teams entered meaning there were about 7 or 8 guys who were playing 5th grade (me included) who would play 6th Grade Friday night, reserve 4th grade saturday and 5th grade on a sunday arvo.
Point is that injuries are prevalent but I don’t think they are any more or less common with excessive conditioning. I reckon if you didn’t hit the gym today you would likely be smashed to bits by your much stronger opponents anyway!!
April 24th 2012 @ 1:55pm
rl said | April 24th 2012 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
You’re right Diehard – our forwards are getting smashed enough as it is (let alone poor Benny Tapuai), and then to suggest we lay off the weights?
April 24th 2012 @ 11:22pm
gatesy said | April 24th 2012 @ 11:22pm | Report comment
…no, that’s not what I said..not “lay off” .. you need to read the post …I said that it is possible that their weight programs are putting too much emphasis on muscle and maybe not enough on joints – you can strengthen muscle til the cows come home, but for every bit of extra weight or strength that you create, there must be an equal and opposite reaction somewhere else in the body…
We’ve all seen that Lotto ad where the bloke throws on the last $50 note and the wheels of the truck collapse – that’s what I’m talking about – the Knees maybe can’t stand any more “$50 notes” being piled on…,.and there do seem to be an inordinate amount of knee related injuries this and last season.
Comments?
April 24th 2012 @ 2:46pm
Kuruki said | April 24th 2012 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
KPM those players you mention are way off the radar. Robbie Deans would not even know there names. How can a couple of 17 year olds who have done absolutely nothing other then look good amongst a bunch of other kids, have any effect whatsoever on Robbie deans selection options. He will be long gone before they even make a mark at Super level. Sometimes i think you live in a fantasy land all on your own, then i hear you are based in the UK and that explains everything. Jordan Rapana is a Kiwi. he has played for NZ Maori.
April 24th 2012 @ 7:28am
Jadeous said | April 24th 2012 @ 7:28am | Report comment
And to think that Quade Cooper and Mike Harris are also kiwis…….
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April 24th 2012 @ 8:55am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:55am | Report comment
yep, that’s what this is about Jadeous…
April 24th 2012 @ 7:48am
sixo_clock said | April 24th 2012 @ 7:48am | Report comment
Thinking test level only. After a little thought but a deep feeling of unease, don’t scare us like this Brett, I came up with McKibbin. Expand the idea to other halfbacks with sound defence. Super Rugby allows us to look at potentially 10+ players close to the scrum who could be encouraged to expand their skill set. The halves for Oz Rugby at least could be used interchangeably even within a game depending on the situation. Till then we will have to wait till our scouts find the next Bernie.
The short answer of course is we rely heavily on Super Rugby to identify, retain and develop talent. I don’t yet believe we need another tier but it would be nice if we had ‘B’ games as lead ups to derby matches with spare squad members mixed with local talent.
ps: good morning.
April 24th 2012 @ 9:00am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:00am | Report comment
Morning Sixo, we already see that to a certain extent with Stannard, Lucas, and Kingi, but I’m not sure that’s an answer I’d be wanting to explore. If anything, that shortens an already shallow pool even more, and literally pushes several eggs into one basket. As the Force found out when Stannard went down, they had to replace him with two players, essentially, promoting Ben Seymour and calling Josh Holmes back from France.
The ‘B’ games does seem an obvious answer, and one that could be applied now for relatively small cost increases…
April 24th 2012 @ 1:29pm
sittingbison said | April 24th 2012 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
Brett you are kind of correct, but Holmes got recalled mostly because Turner went out for the season
Problem is that Godwin was not promoted instead, the Force needs another kourneyman like a hole in the head, but is desperately crying out for locals
April 24th 2012 @ 6:27pm
Justin said | April 24th 2012 @ 6:27pm | Report comment
How bad was Holmes in his first game back? How that guy plays rugby and gets paid is beyond me. Does he have a 2nd gear?
April 24th 2012 @ 7:48am
sheek said | April 24th 2012 @ 7:48am | Report comment
Nice read Brett – Thanks.
I’m still reeling from the thought that there are plenty of rugby folk out there who think it’s okay to score 5 tries to 2, & still lose!!!
(If that’s not a wake-up call that something is wrong with the way rugby is structured, from the laws to their interpretation, to the breakdown of scoring points, then I don’t know what is)
Yeah, we have a problem with our domestic structures, don’t we. Not sufficiently nurturing & developing promising talent is simply one of many problems. Apart from good rugby players, where have our good coaches & good refs gone?
April 24th 2012 @ 7:54am
mania said | April 24th 2012 @ 7:54am | Report comment
sheek – they gave away penalties in their half, repeatedly. with a sniper like morne on the field you have to take that into account
there isnt a problem with the rules or structure. brumbies need to rethink their tactics. after the first 3 penalties they should’ve realised that they were gonna get pinged all night and adjusted accordingly.
scoring 5 tries to 2 is a sucky way to lose because its just down right stupid. brumbies had more than enough opportunities to turn this game around.
would u have an issue with this if the wallaby’s beat the AB’s in this manner?
April 24th 2012 @ 10:19am
sheek said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Mania,
I have carefully avoided suggesting the Brumbies didn’t deserve to be penalised so often. But were all those penalties genuinely justified?
Maybe by the rule of law, meaning technically speaking, they were justified. But seriously, how many times do we as fans throw our hands up in the air in frustration & wonder how on earth a particular penalty really affected the process of the game. Especially sometimes at the scrum or breakdown.
How many penalties are truly genuine, & how many can be seen as pedantic?
April 24th 2012 @ 10:48am
mania said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:48am | Report comment
sheek – yes i’d noticed you werent addressing the penalties which is why i mentioned them.
“How many penalties are truly genuine, & how many can be seen as pedantic?”
a more of a pertinent question is why didnt the brumbies adjust when they should’ve realised that jonker had it ‘out’ for them? (i dont believe jonker did but for this argument lets say he did.) brumbies should’ve adjusted and played to the ref. i admit they’re a young side and inexperienced, but this is an extreme example of a better team (brumbies) being outsmarted. brumbies are doing great this year but if they play intelligently then results like this wont happen.
so i’m trying to get across that scoring 5tries to 2 and losing is an anomoly but this was an extreme case and brumbies should’ve been smarter.
April 24th 2012 @ 11:17am
stuff happens said | April 24th 2012 @ 11:17am | Report comment
Sheek I posted yesterday that in the the 1st half the Brumbies were very fortunate not be yellow carded for deliberately slowing the ball down as the Bulls moved relentlessly towards their goal line. Hence Morne Steyn’s penalties in the 2nd,7th,18 & 34th min.He kicked another 3 in the 2nd half & I think missed one or two.
It sticks in my craw too that 2 tries beat 5 but the devil is in the details.
We should rejoice that at least one Australian team is playing with such gusto having come from nowhere.( I don’t mean Canberra! )
April 24th 2012 @ 5:32pm
sixo_clock said | April 24th 2012 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
Mania, For mine the deciding moment was the dropped ball over the line.
The rest of the team had put Speight through and because he likes to do the long arm slam it jagged loose, if he had cradled it they would have won. Shame on those wingers!
April 24th 2012 @ 8:32am
Justin said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Sheek is there anything remotely good about about Australian Rugby? Maybe we should just kill it off and be done with it
April 24th 2012 @ 10:14am
sheek said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:14am | Report comment
Justin,
You might disagree that my comments are offered as “constructive criticism”, but that’s what I would like to think I’m presenting.
I tend to call it as I see it, & I can understand my forthright manner can be off-putting at times, I guess.
I don’t want to kill off Australian rugby, I want it to be better. But unfortunately, the game is being held back by too many self-serving people, from administrators down to players themselves.
April 24th 2012 @ 9:06am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Sheek, I’m glad you mentioned refs there too, as they often get forgotten in the mix. Since the retirement of Stu Dickinson, and even with the acquisition of Steve Walsh, the Australian ref ranks looks even more threadbare than the playing ranks..
April 24th 2012 @ 10:13am
Tigranes said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:13am | Report comment
And Steve Walsh is a Kiwi as well, but it seems he’s an Australian for super rugby purposes.
April 24th 2012 @ 10:27am
sheek said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Brett,
At the risk of offending Justin further (!!!), there seems to be a correlation between successful teams, players, coaches, refs, administrators, etc, & the opposite.
In 2002, Australian rugby was riding high. Great national team (although already showing some signs of a fall-off), many good players, good coaches, good refs & even the country’s best sports administrator – John O’Neill.
In 2012, the landscape isn’t quite as promising. Good rather than great national team, some good players spread thin, a paucity of quality coaches & refs. And perhaps most intriguingly of all, John O’Neill mark II is certainly not of the same standard as John O’Neill mark I.
April 24th 2012 @ 10:52am
kingplaymaker said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:52am | Report comment
Expaning on a point I made yesterday, was JON that bold in the first place if he was behind the set-up of Super rugby? With 2 Australian teams against endless NRL teams.
Maybe he had grand plans which he couldn’t realise because he was let go, and that is why he has been less bold this time. But however grand his plans may have been for the 2000-2010 decade, still it was very odd to conceive of Super rugby as he presumably did in the first place.
April 24th 2012 @ 10:51am
ohtani's jacket said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:51am | Report comment
You’re forgetting that it was played at Loftus. Steyn was nailing them from 50m.
April 24th 2012 @ 10:58am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:58am | Report comment
OJ, he didn’t have to actually, the Brumbies were very generous in the positioning of their infringements..
April 24th 2012 @ 8:18am
nickoldschool said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:18am | Report comment
Agree Brett, yes, I remember Delany’s blind pass thinking,” wow, i dont think i have seen one like that since Carlos Spencer’s days in SR”. To con the opposition this way is just pure brilliance. That was my round9 moment, first game of the round, 15 minutes played!
It was a blind pass, or ”no-look’ as you call it, ‘only in appearance’ as he perfectly knew where Hosea Gear was and the timing was just perfect! Thats work, class and more work &class! Good on him.
April 24th 2012 @ 8:30am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Nick, you’re quite right, it was quite obvious Delany knew Gear was on his inside hip, and to get the timing and the trust so perfect with only a few days prep only adds to how good a play it was.
At the risk of self-promotion (a wise man once said ‘I know of no-one more qualified for the job’), I’ve got the Fox Sports highlights of this game, including this Delany-Gear play, over on my site. Check out http://bmcsport.com.au/where-is-australias-mike-delany/ to watch it in all it’s glory…
April 24th 2012 @ 8:25am
Fotu said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:25am | Report comment
KPM, name me 5 players who have debuted in the NRL since 2008 that you would like to have in Aussie super rugby. You will say Janal Idris but for mine he is embarrassingly bad. I can think of two. Aku Uate and Tariq Sims. I think the ARU are doing very well with their talent ID, almost 150 kids are on ARU development scholarships. The biggest problem is they are made to do much too early therefore we form an opinion of them after 5 games that they are poor and not up to it.
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April 24th 2012 @ 9:17am
kingplaymaker said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Fotu rugby doesn’t have players like Inglis, Hayne, in the whole world. A rugby journalist called Robert Kitson saw Inglis play and declared there was nothing like him in the whole world of union. The likes of Hopoate, Johnson, Locke and the two you have mentioned show how the talent mill produces players like clockwork. The code is packed with talent. Not suprisingly as it has 16 teams to sign up young talent.
April 24th 2012 @ 3:01pm
Kuruki said | April 24th 2012 @ 3:01pm | Report comment
Put Rene Ranger and Nonu at center for the Warriors and they would cause havoc. Inglis and Hodges vs Nonu and Ranger. i would argue that Nonu and Ranger would prove more then a handfull for this “unrivaled” Inglis.
April 25th 2012 @ 9:23pm
Max Power said | April 25th 2012 @ 9:23pm | Report comment
Much like there was nothing even close to a fit Rupeni Caucau in the league world circa 2002-2003.
April 24th 2012 @ 8:37am
Fotu said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:37am | Report comment
Well you better get used to it Sheek because there is plenty of people around the world that are finding pretty entertaining.
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April 24th 2012 @ 8:43am
Uncle Eric said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Given that the second tier comp (whose name now escapes) flopped, perhaps the ARU could give consideration to having an under 23 comp aligned to the current S15 sides. It could be a home and away comp, with games lining up as curtain raisers for the S15 local derbies. Chance for peripheral players to get hard experience and to bring through promising juniors. Bit like the NRL’s japanese car comp.
April 24th 2012 @ 8:59am
nickoldschool said | April 24th 2012 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Yep, i’ve always wondered why we didnt have that in SR! I.o U-23 I would take the U-20 though as it’s the new age category that replaced the under 19 and U-21 a few years ago. 2 (potentially!) quality games for your money, bit of extra cash for the club (drinks etc).
Thing is,Oz being the vast country that it is, it would mean an extra 25-30 bums on the plane to Perth, Brizzie etc and am not sure we have the money for that. Would be the only valid reason for not having it as I would think.
April 24th 2012 @ 9:07am
Uncle Eric said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Speculate to accumulate. Greater pool of experienced players, more than a few of whom might prove to be Mike Delany types, translates to better S15 performances from the Aussie sides, which leads to bigger crowds, which leads to greater public interest in the game, which leads to greater media coverage, which leads to better Wallabies performances. All of which is good for Rugby generally.
The way things are now without the conference system it is unlikely any Oz team would make the S15 finals, the Wobblies will struggle against the lower teams (IE Scotland) and get walloped in the Tri-Nations. Not a pretty picture and unlikely to improve without MORE COMMITMENT from the ARU.
April 24th 2012 @ 9:10am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Uncle, that’s essentially what I’m suggetsing too, I’ve just left off the age limit. Even as a 2nd XV comp, the average age would be early 20s anyway, and that would be fine I’d reckon. You could even let the top two play off for a cup and a token ARU cheque, to had some meaning, if that’s required.
But it does seem like a chance too good to ignore…
April 24th 2012 @ 9:17am
Uncle Eric said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Absolutely right Brett. If it, or a similar scheme doesn’t occur I will have grave fears for the future of Rugby in Australia.
Funny how we never get responses from the ARU on this site. As an organisation it appears unapproachable and to have a profound disconnect from its constituency. A significant part of the problem in my view.
April 24th 2012 @ 9:28am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:28am | Report comment
They do read though, Uncle, of that you can be sure. Ewen McKenzie’s a self-confessed passive Roarer, too…
April 24th 2012 @ 9:31am
kingplaymaker said | April 24th 2012 @ 9:31am | Report comment
Brett I have suspected certain posters who appear from nowhere, or only once in a blue moon, say very specific things, and then vanish.
April 24th 2012 @ 10:21am
Uncle Eric said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:21am | Report comment
Good to know Brett, but some reactions/comments from them would be a step forward. Only through open interaction and integrity in their dealings do organisations engender positive change. I’d love (along with most other Roarers) to see some change in the ARU’s approach, but I fear it will only happen in response to utter crisis and we haven’t quite reached that stage yet………
April 24th 2012 @ 10:35am
Brett McKay said | April 24th 2012 @ 10:35am | Report comment
Agree Eric, it would be great to hear from these types from time to time, but that would be asking them to speak in a medium that is completely beyond their control, and as you can imagine, that’s not something they do readily. But they certainly know what’s being said..