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The Crusaders Vs. Queensland Reds |
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2012 Super Rugby Tournament, 6 May, 2012 |
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| Rugby Stadium, Addington, Christchurch | ||
| The Crusaders 15 defeated Queensland Reds 11 | ||
| The Crusaders | Queensland Reds | |
| 15 | FINAL SCORE | 11 |
| 0 | TRIES | 1 |
| 0/0 | CONVERSION KICKS | 0/1 |
| 5/6 | PENALTY GOALS | 2/3 |
| 0/0 | DROP GOAL | 0/0 |
Top scorers:
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Important moments:
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| Referee: B Lawrence |
| Touch judges: V Munro & K McBride |
They mightn’t admit it, but revenge will be firmly on the minds of the Crusaders when they host the Reds in the first rematch of the 2011 Super Rugby final in Christchurch this afternoon. We’ll have live scores from 2.00pm AEST.
It has been the Crusaders of old in the past few weeks, with Todd Blackadder’s side racking up three consecutive victories after a sluggish start to 2012.
While they still sit several wins behind the Chiefs, who lead the New Zealand Conference, they look to be building as the season goes on and even with a wildcard look a dangerous post-season prospect.
Unfortunately the same cannot be said for today’s opponents, defending Super Rugby champions the Reds, who have looked a shadow of their 2011 selves.
In a plus for Ewen McKenzie’s men, for one of the first occasions this season they come into this one without having been racked by further injury.
They were definite signs of improvement when the Reds won 23-11 in Auckland last Friday night, and they will come into this one with increasing confidence.
But against one of the form sides in the competition they’ll need to step it up another notch, and some of the stars of last season will need to find the form of last season’s final if they are to spring an upset of epic proportions.
Can they do it? Find out from 2.00pm AEST as we cover all the action with live scores as they happen and if you’re watching, give us your thoughts in the space below.
The Crowd Says (175) | Page 1 of Comments
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5:41am
Misha said | 5:41am | Report comment
I wouldn’t take too much notice of Justin Mardhall’s comments – he seems to make a lot of impulsive comments and then after watching the slow motion replay or more sensible advice from a fellow commentator – he retracts his unwise/hasty comment – He made a silly comment about Ritchie McCaw impending a tackler against the Reds but McCaw was fully entlitled to be where he was and the line he was running – Marshall needs to engage brain before mouth a bit more…He also is in danger of what Keith Quinn used to do a lot (bend over backwards for the opposing team) – Its not a good look – Commentating isn’t about evening up the score or opinion or being “kind” to the opposition/other side its about accurate and logical sumamtions..
8:27am
Sage said | 8:27am | Report comment
So we know better than an ex AB’s opinion on refereeing against his own countrymen do we ? The point has been clearly made and regardless of which side of the dutch you’re on, that was a hopelessly flawed performance by Lawrence who should never have been given the gme in the first place. McCaw did change his line to impede but that was minor anyway compared to some of the other glaring errors, particularly at scrum time. Lets just agree that Bryce’s use by date has come and gone.
10:25am
ohtani's jacket said | 10:25am | Report comment
Mishia has a point. Marshall jumps the gun all the time.
7:11pm
Damo said | 7:11pm | Report comment
Misha, the whole point here is about what is accurate and logical.
And I have seen precious little of it in the highlanders last two games in SA – another one last weekend of a SA visiting team getting caned by a NZ ref pandering to the mob, and then finally the force farce in SA and then Bryce only seeing fit for one front row to be penalized for ‘popping’.
The whole local referee thing is a sad joke. And it is doing rugby no favours.
And to all the boneheads who like to ridicule these sentiments with ‘sour grapes’ jibes, what the highlanders and SA travellers copped was no less confounding to this observer than the force’s and reds’ experience.
Regarding Justin Marshall. I could not notice anything unbalanced in his comments. Something that could not be said about his critics here.
5:25am
Misha said | 5:25am | Report comment
Ha ha – welcome Reds to your Dickinson moment!
6:09am
Red Kev said | 6:09am | Report comment
They had their “Dickinson” moment last year against the Hurricanes when kiwi ref Keith Brown had a game that made the one Lawrence just had look good.
11:34pm
Damo said | 11:34pm | Report comment
Regarding neutral refs.
I have been shocked in recent weeks at the treatment dished out to NZ teams by local SA referees and then by NZ refs hammering visiting SA teams.
I was screaming at the TV for what the Scrooges at sanzar bean counting meetings conjured up. Rugby ruin. It had passed being a joke.
Then after these experiences came Joubert (and his AR with attention deficit) against the Force. And SA commentators explaining away the bias.
Then came Bryce going further against the Reds than Justin Marshall could bear. At least the NZ commentators could see that the emperor with the whistle had lost his shorts.
The current refereeing system is making a joke of these away games. It is difficult to take some games seriously.
One option may be worth considering.
What if the visiting team brought their own referee? Or if the ref was forced to wear headphones so that instructions from the ignorant mob could be ignored?
Whatever is done something has to be done.
Dickenson last year in Oz was contentious as well.
Come on Sanzar get it together – for the game’s sake.
9:06pm
Worlds biggest said | 9:06pm | Report comment
Reds needed to win this one to stay in the mix, looks like it’s the Brumbies carrying the can for the Aussies. This game was always going to be a lottery especially with everyone’s mate reffing. Thought the reds did well to keep it close after the crusaders looked so impressive last week.
8:32pm
tc said | 8:32pm | Report comment
I’m a crusaders fan but this ref has to go .(ARE YOU LISTENING IRB)
8:08pm
Carnivean said | 8:08pm | Report comment
This sounds like it was a nice, tough game of rugby, and might have been good to watch. 20 minutes in and I could no longer continue to watch. Bryce Lawrence is so ridiculous that it’s impossible to follow the game, no matter which side you support. He’s given stupid penalties both ways already, that for a competent ref wouldn’t even be considered.
What I really hope happens in the near future is a neutral game, where neither side can be accused of sour grapes, such as Highlanders vs Hurricanes, where Bryce pulls this crap. And then, both sides, and the media pinpoint that he isn’t up to S15 standard. He’s barely even club rugby standard. When people complain about about rugby being a confusing whistle-fest, they are talking about a Bruce game.
Get fired Bryce. The sooner the better.
7:16pm
AussieKiwi said | 7:16pm | Report comment
As a Crusaders fan I think they had the better of the many poor ref decisions which went both ways. They were lucky to get away with the win and will have to lift their game if they are going to be real contenders.
Re the refs, and leaving apart BL, I don’t think its only a matter of having neutral refs (though that would be preferable) , there is huge crowd pressure and the ref.would not be human if he didn’t give ‘crowd penalties’ sometimes. That’s home ground advantage and the Reds have enjoyed it often enough.
7:01pm
anopinion said | 7:01pm | Report comment
I don’t think it is fair to have a go at the ref.
I would however like to watch each of the scrums that ended in a penalty and try to work out what it was that the ref saw that determined the Reds were driving upwards but the Crusaders were not.
I hope someone does a video analysis of this and posts it. How can anyone tell who is breaking the laws?
Perhaps we need to get rid of all scrum rules and just say go for it.
5:31am
mania said | 5:31am | Report comment
it was mainly because the aus front row were forced to stand uo, ie they got popped. the dominant scrum should get the penalty by default if the ref doesnt know exactly the cause of collaspe.
6:10am
Red Kev said | 6:10am | Report comment
The only reason they stood up was because Franks kept putting his hand on the ground (which by the way is illegal and an automatic penalty) and using it to push up under the Reds front row. Watch the replays, he did it in more than half of the scrums.
6:19am
mania said | 6:19am | Report comment
no redKev. yes franks should’ve gotten penalised for hand on the ground but that would’ve been technical. the fact that franks had his hand on the ground and the scrum didnt collaspe is testament to his strengh and technique and then to go on and pop his opposite when he initially suffered some instability shows reds lack of scrum power.
6:25am
Red Kev said | 6:25am | Report comment
No it was a Reds attacking scrum at half time and Franks was PUSHING off the ground to keep himself from collapsing (illegal) and then he kept on doing it (he puts his hand down 3 more times) to push up under the Reds front row. That is 100% illegal play.
It should have been a Reds penalty and ended the half at 8-6 to the Reds instead of 6-5 to the Crusaders.
That he “initially suffered some instability” shows that he missed the hit and was heading down rather than up at the engage. If you’re gonna comment on scrums at least have packed one in the front row.
When a prop uses the ground once to stabilise I don’t believe it should be a penalty, but when a prop repeatedly uses the ground and that usage changes the nature of the scrum to dominance – which is exactly what happened as he was able to push up under Slipper – then it is not just a penalty but 10 minutes in the bin.
6:55am
mania said | 6:55am | Report comment
so u agree he missed the hit but still managed to pop his opposite? sure it was illegal but the reds didnt take the opportunity to dominate. the hand on the ground means the scrum is initially unstable on the crusaders side. franks stabilised his side and then went on to pop his opposite.
hand on groundwas definately illegal but the advantage at that stage was to the reds who couldnt capatilise.
dont lecture me about scrums. i know scrums intimately. I’m not arguing that the hand on ground was illegal. i’m pointing out that despite franks missing the hit and being disadvantaged he still turned it into dominance. getting lower and beign able to push up on the opposite is what every front rower aims for. it gives them the leverage advantage being lower to the ground. duh
7:25am
Red Kev said | 7:25am | Report comment
As soon as you put your hand on the ground you lose all rights to win a penalty. You admit Franks was at fault, missing the hit and illegally propping himself off the ground so how do you justify the penalty being given to the Crusaders? You can’t. He turned it into dominance by illegal play, that is easy to do. Reread your last sentence and hopefully you will realise how wrong your statement is. It is easy to win if you don’t play by the rules.
7:29am
Red Kev said | 7:29am | Report comment
So your argument is that if you make a mistake and are able to rectify.it by illegal play then that is right and proper?
Reread your post, that is exactly what you said.
7:43am
mania said | 7:43am | Report comment
redkev – no read slower. i’m saying despite franks losing the initiative and the hit and being initially unstable he still managed to dominate his man. yeah he should’ve been penalised (i’ve said this several times now but you keep ignoring it)for hand on the ground but reds also should’ve capitilised on his instability.
franks with his hand on the ground was at the disadvantage and reds had the advantage but didnt do anything with it.
your line “The only reason they stood up was because Franks kept putting his hand on the ground”. this is wrong.reds had the advantage. his hand being on the ground means he shouldnt of been able to recover and pop his man. reds should driven through and not let him recover, but he did and popped his man. it didnt happen because of his hand on the ground, it hapened despite that.
again, i’m not saying it was legal, i’m saying that despite such a mis time franks showed awesome technique to turn it around and dominate anyway.
7:49am
Red Kev said | 7:49am | Report comment
The fact you think that a hand on the ground in that situation is a disadvantage shows that you have never done it. I say again, IT IS EASY TO DOMINATE WHEN YOU USE ILLEGAL PLAY. Using illegal play does show “awesome technique” it shows you are a cheat.
8:00am
mania said | 8:00am | Report comment
i wont carry on arguing with u as u have it in your head that hand on ground is an advantage. interesting though wrong
8:14am
Red Kev said | 8:14am | Report comment
Puttung your hand on the ground instead of eating grass gives you several advantages:
- first and foremost it puts the line of any subsequent drive below that achieveable in normal circumstances
- each time a hand goes down you get to relauch upwards which is the aim of a prop as you point out above
- the steadying hand on the ground does exactly that, it steadies you when you have lost the ability to.compete with you opposite, it allows you to reset your hips and legs to push and steady the scrum instead of collapsing it (which is why I believe it should not be a penalty offence, but anytime you put your hand on the ground you should lose the rights to win a penalty or even dominance in the scrum, you should be restricted to holding status quo).
Maybe you are such an awesome prop you have never had to use the ground to do these things, but as a guy who has, let me tell you, you can turn it into an advantage.
8:23am
mania said | 8:23am | Report comment
redkev – well u must have sucked as a prop. anytime i see an oppostie with his hand on the ground is the time to attack and pressure and make sure he doesnt have time to recover. he’s unstable so thats the perfect time to apply pressure.
your rant of the advantages of putting your hand on the ground is only valid if the other prop is just standing there waiting , doing nothing. but then that is the problems with aus front rows. no inititive.
your continuing on the line that this made a difference to the end result is funny. reds lost because they suck. they were holding onto the a slim lead for most of the game but never dominated. they may have been able to close it out but failed. when they lost the lead they never looked like getting it back or have any ideas on how tproactively get it back
9:23am
Red Kev said | 9:23am | Report comment
Welll yes to the first, I was a much better hooker but got fatter and so got moved sideways
I do not doubt that Franks is a better prop or that on balance the Crusaders scrum was stronger, but a penalty on half.time in kickable range was a big deal. The.Reds probably woukd not have won, the last 15 was all Crusaders, but it was a big momentum changing call.
10:14am
mania said | 10:14am | Report comment
i apologise redkev if i came across conceited and gruff.
it puzzles me with the scrums when teams dont take advantage of the situation. it particularly p’s me off when a prop is boring in and the opposite is letting him. whenever a prop tried to bore into me it gave me the advantage of pushing straight thru him and collasping his side of the scrum. he was at an angle whereas iwas going straight thru him.
hand on the ground tho is illegal because it makes it unstable. franks shouldnt have gotten away with it but to be able to recover and dominate was impressive. when ever my hand went to ground i had to absolutely stop and restabilise myself and i couldnt push until i was sure i had my balance else i would crumble.
2:05pm
Cattledog said | 2:05pm | Report comment
Red Kev, give it up. When you argue with an idiot, they’ll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience
4:09pm
Red Kev said | 4:09pm | Report comment
But I like to argue…
10:12am
anopinion said | 10:12am | Report comment
From my view. I saw the Crusaders prop getting popped sometimes and the Reds getting popped sometimes, but the penalties did not always go to the popper or the poppie. I do not debate whether the penalties were deserved or that the referee made the correct calls. I am interested in hearing and seeing what the ref saw.
Personally I thought neither team deserved to be penalised as the ball was playable at the time the whistle blew, “play on”.
6:26pm
DC of nz said | 6:26pm | Report comment
The team that took their opportunities won.
The loser was outplayed in the last ten mins.
I almost wanted the Reds to win.
I just don’t know about Bryce. He does seem off the pace.
Richie, Kieran, DC, Dagg, Franks nicely warming up for another All Black year.
Todd won’t make back up .. Should Tbe Latimer or Braid.
5:33am
mania said | 5:33am | Report comment
DC – reds stayed close for the entriety of this game, though never looked like crossing the saders line. mind u saders didnt score a try!!
last week when saders also had a close game i thought that they’re just getting into their stride. this week end however i’m wondering whether there a cracks showing in the red and black?
9:42am
Justin said | 9:42am | Report comment
Gee I thought they did cross the saders line? Must have been watching something else
10:15am
mania said | 10:15am | Report comment
my bad, meant to say that in the 2nd half reds never looked like scoring.
5:15pm
Misha said | 5:15pm | Report comment
See lots of Red’s moaners blaming the Ref but the Reds scrum and front row was terrible and deserved every penalty
5:07pm
katzilla said | 5:07pm | Report comment
Haven’t seen this game but cant wait to get home and view it.
Judging by the saltiness of the tears flowing here its going to be a cracker from B Lawrence.
There wasn’t so much outrage last year when he gave the Wallabies a free pass into the Semis.
Bryce Giveth, Bryce taketh away.
5:46pm
sixo_clock said | 5:46pm | Report comment
Very funny, love it. I had no issue with the ref, consistent, intolerant of cynical play, maybe too much Red Bull beforehand.
Reds did well to hold the ‘Saders tryless. Very good game for them, kicking decided the result and Harris did not have a good day otherwise…
5:07pm
Red Block said | 5:07pm | Report comment
It’s hard to believe that the Sydney Scribes still continually push for Dennis over Higginbotham in Wallaby XV.
I wonder if Deans is going to pick Elsom. He did it last year when he was woefully out of form and stuck with him.
Higgers has been the form AUS forward in Super Rugby. He deserves first crack!
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5:12pm
Justin said | 5:12pm | Report comment
Yeah his game has gone to another level, he is the leader of the pack now and was enormous today. The Reds back row flogged The Crusaders counterparts
5:14pm
Jiggles said | 5:14pm | Report comment
Todd especially looked amateur. I think McCaw will have to hang on for a few more years before a credible option at 7 becomes clear for the ABs.
6:02pm
PeterK said | 6:02pm | Report comment
totally agree, Higginbotham has been the outstanding 6 this year. I would have Higgs at 6 and Palu at 8.
Mowen totally outclassed against strong forwards.
5:01pm
Jiggles said | 5:01pm | Report comment
Its a shame a great game between these two teams is again dominated by talk of the Ref. How did SANZAR and Lyndon Bray think that having Lawrence would’ve been beneficial here regardless of who won?
5:34am
mania said | 5:34am | Report comment
have to agree re bryce, the only thing in his favour was he was consistently bad.
4:56pm
Lippy said | 4:56pm | Report comment
Why oh why do they persist with home town officials?
Maybe this is Karma for Dickinsons performance during regular season play at Suncorp in 2011.
This also again highlights how important home town advantage can be and is.
Crusaders IMO were kak but a wins a win end of story.
5:59pm
PeterK said | 5:59pm | Report comment
funny how its end of story in this situation but you still hark back to Dickinson AND constantly debate the reds title, a premiership is a premisership end of story.
6:00pm
PeterK said | 6:00pm | Report comment
also the reds would of won with a neutral ref so lawrence gave more advantage than home ground did.
6:07pm
Jerry said | 6:07pm | Report comment
Except ‘they would have won with a neutral ref’ is complete supposition.
6:15pm
PeterK said | 6:15pm | Report comment
its my opinion
6:57pm
Jerry said | 6:57pm | Report comment
You know, people still complained about the refs in Super Rugby when they were neutral. They still complain about refs in test rugby.
7:08pm
Lippy said | 7:08pm | Report comment
Gutter when the boots on the other foot huh.
Don’t like having your own lines used PK ?
7:58pm
Moaman said | 7:58pm | Report comment
..or improved upon
4:47pm
SamSport said | 4:47pm | Report comment
Nice to see people complaining about the referee. Can’t say I’m surprised, some of the Bryce Lawrence excuses were being put in before the game had even started.
I thought it was a pretty good game, but didn’t approach the level of intensity of the Stormers – Crusaders clash of a few weeks ago which was quite brutal. I thought Bryce was very tough on the attacking team (I’m not complaining about this), but pretty easy on the tackler releasing the ball carrier, which probably explains the lack of tries. I thought this probably benefited the Reds; for sure both teams got away with a bit in this regard, but to say the Crusaders got the rub of the green is probably a bit tough.
One of the crucial points of the game seemed to be when the Reds kick-off didn’t make ten metres. Talk about massive mistake. I think this just lifted the spirits of the Crusaders and really hit the Reds’ confidence. If you ask me, this point was the most important of the match – really gave the Crusaders a bit of confidence and hit the Reds quite bad.
5:05pm
Justin said | 5:05pm | Report comment
Even the commentators thought the Reds missed the rub. The Stormers match was brutal in parts but nowhere near the constant pace of this match. That was a kick a thon.
Agree the reds made sine key mistakes in the last 10 though.
8:23pm
Red Kev said | 8:23pm | Report comment
No the pivotal point of the match was when the Reds were penalised at scrum time on their own feed when the Crusaders loose head put his hand on the ground 4 times to steady himself and drive in.
Lawrence was terrible but he was especially poor at scrum time.
The Reds had their chance to win and if Harris had kicked all his attempts they would have won. Losing Lucas didn’t help their cause but I can’t help but think that last years Reds would have won that match, this year they just don’t have the same application and execution around the park.
4:27pm
Harry said | 4:27pm | Report comment
McCaw bought composure to the Saders in the last 10 minutes of the game and they dominated field position. The Reds did not treasure possession enough and pushed a few passes in that critical period. And the scrum was weak at critical times.
Deans must have enjoyed his trip – his old team and home (and I’m sure where his heart is) won but several Reds showed they won’t be out of place/in good form for the Wallabies starting XV – to certainties Horwill, Genia and Ioane can be aded Higginbotham, and Lucas is an option for 10, Faingaa for 13 Simmons in the 2nd row and Slipper up front.
And you know someone’s good when the Kiwi’s whinge – step forward Liam Gill.
Harris, Morgahan, Shipperly, Schatz all went fairly well with the odd blemish in what was a high quality game.
4:30pm
Jiggles said | 4:30pm | Report comment
They had to bring McCaw on earlier then planned to combate Gill, and I think he still got on top. I still think he is 2 or 3 years off Test selection though.
4:34pm
Harry said | 4:34pm | Report comment
Agree. Apart from the turnover and breakdown I liked his work in attack, fast, good step etc. What an exciting prospect and like you, very pleased to see Benny Lucas go really well at 10 and show he’s got it.
7:57pm
MR said | 7:57pm | Report comment
Slipper can’t really be considered as a front row option at the moment. Looks unfit to me, doesn’t do much of the hard work and the scrum got hammered, not sure if it was due to Slipper or Holmes??
5:41am
mania said | 5:41am | Report comment
gill was the man. that penalty he gave away in front of the post ( that taylor converted putting the saders in the lead) was sooooo wrong. gill was legit and turned the ball over lightning fast. bryce had a shocker and this game was a case of making sure that bryce didnt screw it up too much.
saders were lucky that reds didnt have an offence as their defence was awesome. saders need to picvk up the pace a bit if they expect to make the semi’s
4:23pm
Jiggles said | 4:23pm | Report comment
Just some thoughts on the game from a Reds perspective:
Higginbotham was outstanding and easily MOM. He has been playing at this level all season and tonight he proved why he is one of the premier backrowers in Super Rugby this year. I honestly don’t think the no. 6 position can be debated for the Wallabies.
Hanson also had a great game, and his work rate in the tight is exceptional. Give him 1 more year and he will be the back up to Moore for the Wallabies. While TPN makes yards with his running, Hanson’s work rate is so good, and that’s what the Wallabies lack.
Lucas again looked very solid. I have been watching this bloke since about 13 years of age, and he has always impressed me at 10. I am so glad he has finally got his chance and is taking it. He does the simple things near 100%. He takes the ball to the line, he can pass off both hands, short and wide, and hit the man running on to it. His kicking game both short and long is top notch. He can tackle.
Kev played his best game of the year, he made the gain line every time he got the ball and chewed up valuable metres and sucked in Crusaders into the ruck.
A. Faingaa, while not a test standard player, shows how valuable he is to this Reds side. The defence stiffened up, and they had more options in attack. I am so glad they have signed this guy on again for a few more years.
The Reds were the better team, but they can’t blame it on Byrce. Everyone knows how rubbish he is, and you just have to go into the game knowing you need to really take him out of the game – The Reds couldn’t do that. If this game was at Lang Park, the Reds would’ve won and Crusaders fans could feel rightfully aggrieved. He is equally crap to both teams, but shows bias towards the home team.
These Crusader Reds games are turning into crackers!
4:24pm
Jiggles said | 4:24pm | Report comment
Also to add onto that Gill needs to learn some subtly in his game, then he could be anything. If Todd is the next 7 off the rank for NZ, then they will have it tough.
4:33pm
BennO said | 4:33pm | Report comment
Good summary cheers.
8:02pm
Moaman said | 8:02pm | Report comment
Might be a bit premature to right off Todd on that performance.Surround him with a better.more motivated pack and who knows how good he can be?
8:17pm
Sylvester said | 8:17pm | Report comment
Todd had made the most tackles in the comp this season going into this weekend, so he must be doing something right.
8:42pm
Jiggles said | 8:42pm | Report comment
A better more motivated pack?
He plays with the Franks Brothers, Whitelock, McCaw and Read. 5 All Blacks there, 4 of them starting. The current captain and future captain… Strange comment.
4:31pm
Harry said | 4:31pm | Report comment
Really crucial “soft” short arm penalty given away by S. Faingaa for not getting the ball into the line out quickly enough while the game was still in the balance. But the reds will be better with these 2 back fit and firing, though agree neither is test standard.
4:35pm
Justin said | 4:35pm | Report comment
Wasnt his fault Harry there was clearly no call coming. Nobody went up which shows no one knew what was going on.
4:40pm
Jiggles said | 4:40pm | Report comment
Yeah I don’t think the blame can be on Fat Finger for that one. Was Simmons off at that stage? If so they need to sort out the calling for when he is off, and Horwill should probably put his hand up for that error.
4:47pm
Harry said | 4:47pm | Report comment
Fair points, but the fact remains the Reds composure wasn’t great in the last 10 minutes. that said, really pleased with the way Queensland played today.
4:55pm
Jiggles said | 4:55pm | Report comment
They did panic a bit thats for sure. There are some positives from the game thats for sure, and they can hold their heads up high. But unfortunately, I think thats the season dusted. They need the Brumbies to drop a couple of games, and not drop any themselves.
5:35pm
stillatragic said | 5:35pm | Report comment
There was no tunnel. The Saders had closed it completely. The touchie should have stepped in to widen it. Can’t keep them out of the game normally.
6:06pm
PeterK said | 6:06pm | Report comment
Agree with most of that except Hanson.
If Moore starts then TPN is the perfect impact player for the last 20 when the game has opened up a bit and the forwards are tired.
Dont need a high work rate , grinder as much then.
6:11pm
Jiggles said | 6:11pm | Report comment
Hanson Isn’t ready for test rugby this year, so TPN will be on the bench regardless. TPN needs to lift his work rate in the tight, he is way to lazy in my opinion. If he comes on for the last 20 in a test, I don’t want him standing in the backs waiting for a ball to go for a run, I want him to be hitting 1 in 3 rucks with venom.
6:17pm
PeterK said | 6:17pm | Report comment
TPN gets hurt because he hits tackles and rucks with venom. He hits them harder than any other play IMO.
Hanson works hard but doesnt hit hard , he lacks venom using your vernacular.
That is what he would have to improve to become a bench player for the Wallabies and I dont think he will.
6:28pm
Jiggles said | 6:28pm | Report comment
TPN definitely tackles hard, but I don’t see his work at the ruck being particularly good.
For a Hooker, in my opinion, you need a player who consistently puts in at the ruck and does the tight stuff. TPN doesn’t do this, despite his impact at the tackle. If he could lift his work rate up, he could be a player comparable to BdP.
Either way its a moot point because Hanson isn’t International standard yet.
11:15pm
bluerose said | 11:15pm | Report comment
but then TPN knocks himself out by using his head to tackle………its amazing his still playing given the amount of concussions he has had, someone should tell him to use his arms/shoulder next time and he can go on for ever
4:10pm
Sprigs said | 4:10pm | Report comment
Gill looks very good.
4:14pm
Matt in Norway said | 4:14pm | Report comment
Good one sprigs… two can play the edit comment game, your first comment was still daft. Trolling?
4:00pm
Sage said | 4:00pm | Report comment
A win is a win so well done Crusaders but another appaling display of officiating by Bryce rabbit in the spotlight Lawrence. There is no way that Gill should have been penalised to hand the Crusaders the lead . A blatant error. And then Sir Ritchie going straight through and off his feet sealing off the Reds ball and they get the penalty. We’d been penalised for the same thing prior and more than once. Anyway a great game to watch and a great effort from the reds as the only try scorers. Liam Gill at a fresh faced 19 years of age is a sensation and hopefully Ant Faainga critics were watching.
3:56pm
stillatragic said | 3:56pm | Report comment
Well, what can you say. The Reds were the better side but never got a chance. Sure some penalties were fair, some 50:50, but some were a joke and turned the game. And to penalise the Crusaders the infringement had to be so bleeding obvious that blind Freddy’s AFL watching mother could call it. And the other calls like the missed knock-ons, the narrowing of the line-out. Where the touchies? Refs like Lawrence ruin rugby as a spectacle and a contest. Shame. It could have been a good match.
4:28pm
STU said | 4:28pm | Report comment
STILL, id have to agree with you the referee missed a bit which imo helped the crusaders. Im still wondering why the crusaders (and stars) are performing so poorly —— very casual at times and inaccurate.Carter a passenger at present.And the jovial demeanour of some crusaders after a lacklustre performance personifies their attitude.Their waratahs game mirrors this also.
Having said this the brumbies on 35 and tahs,reds on 26 tells the story. The reds and tahs are effectively 10th on the ladder.
The reds won their early games by a few points and relied mainly on harris goalkicking which was only 50% today.there layeth the difference i guess?
4:55pm
Matt in Norway said | 4:55pm | Report comment
Yeah it must be the arrogance mate, yep that’s it the kiwi arrogance and because the Saders are all cheats, and the ref too… Paid off, yep that’s it! McCaw? Well everyone says he cheats so he must be one, I’ll just repeat whatever everyone else says because I don’t know anything about rugby… Good old kiwi arrogance and cheating won the game today STU! Two hands on it today reds fans…
Saders performing badly but still winning? What does that tell you champ? The tahs and the reds are rubbish this year, well the tahs are always rubbish.
5:41pm
stillatragic said | 5:41pm | Report comment
Agreed. The Reds are not the team of last year. Whether it be the loss of Cooper, the savage injury toll especially at 10, or what I don’t know but the really attractive rugby that made them good to watch in 2010 champions in 2011 is not there.
7:14pm
STU said | 7:14pm | Report comment
MATT,im very pleased you didnt get shot on the island because you are a humerous fellow.you get the wrong end of the stick but that just makes me understand this is the symptoms of deeper difficulties;get well soon
clearly it tells everyone the tahs and reds are 10th in comp and rubbish. please read my post again champ
8:21pm
Mat in Norway said | 8:21pm | Report comment
Your last comment oozed class Stu, making light of a very recent national tragedy in which the majority of the victims were children, on a sports opinion site? Poor taste and even worse form.
Stick to how much cheating the kiwi teams do, it’s what a good percentage of Posters on this site are great at.
8:58pm
Justin said | 8:58pm | Report comment
Low, very low
3:50pm
Johnno said | 3:50pm | Report comment
I love rugby league park christchurch really old school 1970′s 80′s ground. Real tribal and intimate the way rugby should eb. Wish more matches like this and ground love rugby league park christchurch. Far better than the old lancaster park.
3:56pm
Harry said | 3:56pm | Report comment
Its a lot better ground isn’t it, and better that its afternoon rugby.
3:44pm
Justin said | 3:44pm | Report comment
Great game, really enjoyable. Hats off to the Saders they got the result. Scrum was the reason for the win and a couple of poor decisions by the Reds late hurt.
To all those people who bag AF he was outstanding. He gets a stack of bad press on here quite undeservedly. He beat Freuan today hands down and led the defence. More talk, more aggression and execution. He has been a key missing in the Reds this year.
3:48pm
Jiggles said | 3:48pm | Report comment
Yeah I agree. There were small moments in the game were the reds just made a mistake and they really had to make the Crusaders pay, and they didnt.
I think the Reds can hold their heads high after that one.
3:41pm
formeropenside said | 3:41pm | Report comment
typical cheating Kiwi ref – that call on Gill cost the Reds the game
3:45pm
Justin said | 3:45pm | Report comment
I actually thought he got that right. First time was OK but the second time he went at it the ruck was formed.
I was more miffed by the ARs almost than Bryce, particularly Munroe.
4:52pm
Cattledog said | 4:52pm | Report comment
You need to ask yourself why Gill didn’t get it the first time. Holding on comes to mind. This was certainly a game changer. Unfortunately, Bryce Lawrence should never have been appointed to this game. The Reds were in a lose lose situation. I find it hard to believe Australia don’t have referees better than this guy. I’m sure I would get NO argument from the SA’s.
1:27am
steve.h said | 1:27am | Report comment
Nope no argument!
3:46pm
kezza said | 3:46pm | Report comment
two words ockers – concrete pills
4:19pm
bluerose said | 4:19pm | Report comment
Bryce penalised Holmes for pushing upwards in the scrum twice but never penalised Ben Franks for doing the same thing in another scrum
4:38pm
Justin said | 4:38pm | Report comment
Saders had the better scrum, no doubt but that doesnt mean they get nearly every decision at each scrum. Thats whats annoying the most. The LH Franks had his hand on the ground constantly and never got picked up. Bryce stayed on one side of the scrum almost all day.
10:21am
anopinion said | 10:21am | Report comment
Bluerose. I agree. I can not for the life of me work out how those decisions were made.
3:39pm
BennO said | 3:39pm | Report comment
bugger.
3:39pm
Ash said | 3:39pm | Report comment
Well done Bryce. What a joke.
3:38pm
Harry said | 3:38pm | Report comment
Bryce makes sure for the Saders. Good effort by the Reds.
Another top game.
3:34pm
Jiggles said | 3:34pm | Report comment
Rod Davies…. Well done crusaders
4:00pm
Cattledog said | 4:00pm | Report comment
I’m at a loss why Link continues with Davies. Really, he’s a very ordinary, slow thinker who can run fast.
4:03pm
Jiggles said | 4:03pm | Report comment
He was good last year, but he is so Bipolar. you could see himself doing his dacks when that ball came to him, he had no idea what to do.
4:06pm
Jiggles said | 4:06pm | Report comment
He was good last year, but he is so Bipolar. you could see himself releasing effluent into his dacks when that ball came to him, he had no idea what to do
5:49am
mania said | 5:49am | Report comment
davies has never been the same since the samoa game. last year he played well but had never been really tested. samoa tested him and he failed. now he’s just making up numbers and needs to be dropped asap. his cameo in this game was a testament to his abilities. yes he has speed but is way to scared to think coherently or with any intelligence. bye bye davies, all speed no balls.
3:30pm
Jiggles said | 3:30pm | Report comment
Bryce getting them out of jail again
3:35pm
BennO said | 3:35pm | Report comment
dammit!
That’s it surely….
3:19pm
BennO said | 3:19pm | Report comment
The NZ radio commentators were pretty indignant about the yellow card. Particularly the lass on the sideline.
Can Harris kick it…….yes!
3:26pm
Jiggles said | 3:26pm | Report comment
He would’ve been ok if he used his arms.
5:54am
mania said | 5:54am | Report comment
or made it look like he was going for a charge down. deserved the yellow for being dumb
3:18pm
BlackWave said | 3:18pm | Report comment
How do you get yellow carded for pushing someone…………………..
3:27pm
Harry said | 3:27pm | Report comment
Shouldercharge
3:31pm
BlackWave said | 3:31pm | Report comment
……………..
3:41pm
Kuruki said | 3:41pm | Report comment
There was no way he was going to pull out of that on time and he did not go through with a hard shoulder he turned his back. Fair enough penalty and card but there was no real intent to smash him. He could have done a much better job in hindsight tho.
3:49pm
Jiggles said | 3:49pm | Report comment
It wasn’t late and he would’ve been fine if he just kept his arms up and tried to wrap them around. As soon as you take your arms away you don’t leave the officials with any choice.
3:59pm
Cattledog said | 3:59pm | Report comment
You don’t. Pushing someone implies he used his arms. He didn’t.
3:18pm
Jiggles said | 3:18pm | Report comment
10 in the bin was fair
3:15pm
Johnno said | 3:15pm | Report comment
I love rugby league park christchurch. A great intimate old school atmposhere. I wish more sports stadiums were like this, really tribal and intimate. Far more exciting and better atmosphere than the old lancaster park that was decoyed by the earthquake.
And the stadium is old and very 19870′ and 80′s real grassroots stadium this.
3:13pm
Jiggles said | 3:13pm | Report comment
Albert Anea, take a bow
3:11pm
Jiggles said | 3:11pm | Report comment
Franks popping up, Bryce not calling it.
3:20pm
Superboer said | 3:20pm | Report comment
Bryce was good enough to get the Wallabies a win over the Springboks WC 2011
3:51pm
Wally James said | 3:51pm | Report comment
And he was incompetent then too.
3:09pm
Harry said | 3:09pm | Report comment
Blatant shepherd by McCaw! What a joke.
3:43pm
Kuruki said | 3:43pm | Report comment
Is that illegal? Carter was beside McCaw not behind him. That is not cheating that is absolutely brilliant and clever rugby.
3:55pm
Harry said | 3:55pm | Report comment
McCaw was in front of Carter he altered his running line to deliberately impede the defender. Yes thats illegal
4:01pm
Jerry said | 4:01pm | Report comment
He didn’t alter his run even slightly. He slowed down momentarily to time his support fun for Carter, but he didn’t move to either side.
4:39pm
Justin said | 4:39pm | Report comment
He knew what he was doing Jerry but fair play to him he had every right to run that line IMO.
3:58pm
Justin said | 3:58pm | Report comment
Id do the same thing. You are never going to get picked up for it. You are allowed to support the ball carrier in any line you like. He knew what he was doing no doubt but good luck to him.
10:25am
anopinion said | 10:25am | Report comment
McCaw was fine to run that line. If you want the ref to whistle those things the game will never get going. I like the way Mc Caw ends up standing at halfback for the opposition so many times. Very All Black.
3:09pm
Jiggles said | 3:09pm | Report comment
McCaw you cheat
3:08pm
Harry said | 3:08pm | Report comment
hand on the ground again but the saders get away with it and the penalty
3:07pm
Jiggles said | 3:07pm | Report comment
Reds need to be better then that. If they play that move, they have to be at the ruck in numbers
3:02pm
Harry said | 3:02pm | Report comment
Great attack from Saders only stopped by a fantastic tackle by Digby on the line, penalty Saders, back in front.
3:05pm
Ash said | 3:05pm | Report comment
Yeah Ellis knocked it on and then The Crusaders get the penalty.
3:00pm
Cattledog said | 3:00pm | Report comment
Unfortunately, referee appointments are not made by the most mentally robust people. As has been said above, Lawrence should never have been appointed to such a match. However, if they’re good enough, the Reds will prevail, despite the whistleblower.
3:04pm
Jiggles said | 3:04pm | Report comment
Agreed.
3:46pm
Kuruki said | 3:46pm | Report comment
There was no moaning by the Reds when Dickinson handed them the game last season. What goes around comes around.
2:59pm
Harry said | 2:59pm | Report comment
Gill wins a penalty and McCaw will be on soon, Harris converts.
2:48pm
Justin said | 2:48pm | Report comment
Marshall has the right thoughts about the game in general. He is a practical and logical thinker.
What was Vinnie Munroe doing in that last scrum? Twice Franks had his hand down on the ground on the left side and he was 5 metres away unobstructed yet didnt communicate with Lawrence to say Reds penalty?
Great game to watch, a much quicker pace and quality of play than last Sundays match.
3:00pm
Johnno said | 3:00pm | Report comment
Funny though when the world cup final was on the line Marshall was not as diplomatic. It seems when the stakes were at it’s highest in NZ, all NZ fans ex players, media, the players, the refs, nothing was going to stop NZ winning the world cup.
I wish Marshall was harder on craig joubert int he world cup grand final, unlike what he is doing in a regular season grand final.
2:46pm
Harry said | 2:46pm | Report comment
Fair penalty the last one but the Reds are playing well against the always strong Saders. Hope Higgers and Lucas can make it both – both played excellently before copping head wounds
2:49pm
Justin said | 2:49pm | Report comment
Harry I could easily go to the Reds, see my post above.
Its another reason that penalties at scrum time should be done away with. Free kicks sure but penalties are just guessing alot of the time IMO.
2:51pm
Ash said | 2:51pm | Report comment
The Crusaders prop had his arm on the ground the whole time in front of the assistant referee.
2:45pm
Jiggles said | 2:45pm | Report comment
Despite the fluffbunny with the whistle 6 – 5 is a fair half time score
2:49pm
BennO said | 2:49pm | Report comment
I’m surprised the Reds are this close given their season so far. An even contest so far then? A try after two mins seems like it might have been a bit of luck?
2:51pm
Justin said | 2:51pm | Report comment
So you cant see the vision and you think the Reds are lucky to be close? They have been the dominant side except the penalty count which is 8-1 and they have the ball 62% of the time!!!
2:55pm
BennO said | 2:55pm | Report comment
Huh? Not at all. I don’t think they’re lucky, I have no idea if they were, I was asking if the try was. They haven’t had the best season so far and given that I thought they’d get done over pretty well by the crusaders.
I was simply asking how the half went because I haven’t seen any of it.
2:52pm
Jiggles said | 2:52pm | Report comment
The first try was well constructed push over. I wouldn’t call it luck. The reds are just lacking a bit at the breakdown and a couple of errors have cost them building real pressure. The crusaders have nothing in attack but their defense is top notch.
2:55pm
BennO said | 2:55pm | Report comment
Nice one thanks Jiggles!
2:45pm
BennO said | 2:45pm | Report comment
To all those twitter people on the right, try having an original thought for a change…I’ve read this bloody tweet:
“Bryce Lawrence should not be refereeing at any level. He is a dead set game killer #CRUvRED #SuperRugby”
About 30 times already! OK we get it, he’s a bad ref and today he’s having a bad game but crikey…we’ve all read it!
At the moment you’re all I’ve got so get your act together!
Somehow I think I’m wasting my time here and that of everyone else on the Roar who might have read this comment. Sorry folks.
2:49pm
Harry said | 2:49pm | Report comment
Benno its another high quality game basically – not dissimilar to last year’s 2 Reds/Saders games. Both teams missed penalty kicks they should have got and both have come close to scoring more tries.
2:56pm
BennO said | 2:56pm | Report comment
Cheers mate. I’m gutted I can’t find a bloody stream of this tonight!!
2:43pm
Harry said | 2:43pm | Report comment
Bryce doing his best to cozy up to the good folk and team of Christchurch.
2:42pm
Sandy said | 2:42pm | Report comment
It’s time something is done about NZ’s ref of the year….what a joke
2:39pm
Wally James said | 2:39pm | Report comment
This is a grand final replay. What has the appointment board done but give the game to Lawrence. He has been proven an incompetent more times than can be counted. Positively disgraceful. I don’t just blame him. I also blame those who gave him this game. They are just as incompetent.
2:47pm
Sandy said | 2:47pm | Report comment
Totally agree, it is so frustrating
2:28pm
Katipo said | 2:28pm | Report comment
Well the South Africans have refused to let Bryce Lawrence officiate any Super rugby games in South Africa. Perhaps the Aussie teams should take a similar stance and Lawrence only be able to inflict himself on kiwi local derbies.
He ruins so many games.
2:56pm
Tyro said | 2:56pm | Report comment
Katipo 100% wrong; Lawrence made the decision himself on grounds of personal safety.
South Africa RFU have never refused him or any other ref.
DOn’t let facts get in the way of your argument though.
3:55pm
Kuruki said | 3:55pm | Report comment
Well actually he has not refused to go there, they just thought better of sending him. He only said he would refuse if he felt he was in danger.
3:53pm
Kuruki said | 3:53pm | Report comment
I don’t know if you guys have watched any of the New Zealand teams play in South Africa but this lopsided rub of the green is now common place. If you want fair reffing then it needs to be across the board. Currently it is not. Neutral reffing is the only option. If it does not happen then this is the future of Super Rugby. Anyone who thinks these guys are immune to pressure from local and home fans are kidding themselves.
4:02pm
Justin said | 4:02pm | Report comment
I think that everyone is calling for neutrals.
4:12pm
PeterK said | 4:12pm | Report comment
Aussie teams in SA cop it as well ie Brumbies and that knock on, Cheetahs and Force with the try called back etc
Mind you SA and Aussie teams in NZ get it just as bad.
Neutral refs must be used. I do understand Aust doesnt have enough quality refs so use NH ones for SA – NZ games.
7:09pm
Jerry said | 7:09pm | Report comment
“Aussie teams in SA cop it as well….
Mind you SA and Aussie teams in NZ get it just as bad.”
Hmmm….what’s missing here?
1:50am
steve.h said | 1:50am | Report comment
I’m not sure if you are referring to the Sharks v Chiefs match where a New Zealand Ref was in charge of the match and the scrumhalf for the chiefs was feeding the ball under the locks feet every time at the scrum or the Chiefs players stamping on Sharks players on the ground or the incident of Steve Walsh not giving the Bulls a penalty on halfway ( which Bray admitted was a serious mistake) when Ranger dived on Basson or shambles that was the Brumbies Cheetahs ( once again Bray stating that the ref was completely inaccurate with his call and cost the Cheetahs the game) or or or or………. These things happen but I see Spiro has everyone convinced of some South African plot. I think we shouldn’t mistake incompetence for bias but if SANZAR continues with non-neutral refs this mistake will constantly be made
2:24pm
Jiggles said | 2:24pm | Report comment
Who needs enemies when you have mates like Byrce
2:26pm
BennO said | 2:26pm | Report comment
I’m stuck without a stream and can’t find an online radio link…ah wait on, just seen the twitter feed there so Bryce is crucifying the reds eh?
2:33pm
Jiggles said | 2:33pm | Report comment
A number if the calls have been questionable. But it’s Bryce so you know some one is going to come away with this match with a sore ass
2:36pm
BennO said | 2:36pm | Report comment
OK thanks for that.
While I appreciate your capacity for imagery…just a simple “yes” will be fine next time
2:38pm
Jiggles said | 2:38pm | Report comment
Haha noted.
2:33pm
Jiggles said | 2:33pm | Report comment
A number if the calls have been questionable. But it’s Bryce so you know some one is going to come away with this match with a sore ass
3:03pm
ohtani's jacket said | 3:03pm | Report comment
You can listen to it on Radio Sport NZ.
3:08pm
BennO said | 3:08pm | Report comment
Thanks mate.
2:24pm
Ash said | 2:24pm | Report comment
Even Justin Marshall is seeing it.
It’s a joke!
2:15pm
Ash said | 2:15pm | Report comment
Bryce Lawrence is a dead set cheat.
2:22pm
Elisha Pearce said | 2:22pm | Report comment
I usually give a ref benefit of the doubt. But Bryce has been appaling. He is unbelievably bad in this match.