Is Australian rugby short of players or coaches?
By bmwwilliams, 9 May 2012 bmwwilliams is a Roar Rookie
- Tagged:
- Australian rugby, Brumbies, Jake White, Rugby Union, Waratahs
Ewen McKenzie. AP Photo/Francois Mori
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The Waratahs’ loss to the Brumbies on the weekend has a lot of supporters consigning another season to the dustbin, as the Canberra-faithfuls plan their team’s route to the finals.
I must admit it is frustrating to see NSW take another strong team to an (expected) mid-table finish, but exciting to watch Jake White assemble a bunch of no-names into a well-oiled machine.
The question I am torn over is this: are the two teams’ differing fortunes this year an interesting by-product of Australian rugby’s lack of quality in players, or coaches?
The two arguments go like this:
Players:
Australian rugby has never had the depth or quality to produce a consistently successful Super team like the Crusaders.
The Brumbies have typically countered this problem by picking players out of left field, often unwanted by the bigger provinces (read: the Waratahs).
Occasionally, they manage to do a sort of rugby alchemy and assemble a collection of pure gold.
It is fantastic to watch the Brumbies when they hit a purple patch, and I hope it leads to another great generation of Wallabies.
However, let’s not forget that in between these times, Brumbies supporters have to endure years of pretty terrible football.
Plenty of picks have turned out to be duds, and we’ve all seen the team turn up and play a style of rugby I call “Can’t Be Arsed”.
The team can get away with this cycle because the supporters and union accept it. I suspect it’s part of being used to living off Sydney’s scraps.
Of course, such a cycle would never be acceptable in Sydney – they’re the ACT’s big brother.
The NSW supporters/union/media expect to win every year. They can’t take a chance on too many raw or unproven players, because the idea of a ‘rebuilding phase’ just won’t cut it.
And because of this different attitude, the Waratahs have been a good team much more consistently than have the Brumbies – their recent finals record says so.
But they have also never hit the highs of their cousins in the capital.
I think of the Waratahs like the Australian Crusaders – a gathering of a lot of the country’s biggest and best names. In many ways, the strength of the Waratahs is a true reflection of the strength of Australian playing stocks.
Australia’s Crusaders are just not quite as good as New Zealand’s.
Coaches:
Jake White has managed to turn up in the ACT and quickly turn a bunch of no-names into a potential Super Rugby powerhouse.
The playing quality has been here the whole time – the coaches just haven’t been here to use it.
Yes, the Brumbies have been up and down like a yo-yo in their past. But their last golden generation was raised by Rod Macqueen and Eddie Jones, and this time round they’re being nurtured by White.
It seems that all the ACT boys need is a decent coach and they become world beaters.
What is clearest about the Brumbies this year is that they are all on the same page.
They come out each week with a strong game-plan, in which each individual has a well-defined role. In such a scenario, there is no need for individual brilliance, to produce something out of nothing.
Rather, the team as a whole creates opportunities, and all individuals are at least skilled enough to capitalise.
The Tahs on the other hand are not playing cohesively enough to consistently create and capitalise on opportunities, regardless of the individual strength of the players.
This was perhaps most on show last weekend – the forwards clearly had the wood on the Brumbies for much of the game, but nobody seemed quite sure what to do about it.
On a number of occasions, the forwards punched holes in the defence, only to find nobody had thought to run off their shoulder in support.
Had they been better coached and better drilled, the result could have been vastly different.
So what do people think?
Are there loads of George Smiths and Stirling Mortlocks running around in club and junior rugby, just waiting to be moulded into stars?
Or is it more a matter of the Brumbies managing to assemble what few talented youngsters this country has?
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May 9th 2012 @ 4:08am
bluerose said | May 9th 2012 @ 4:08am | Report comment
its both, players and coaches have to do there parts, its like a marriage, im sure somewhere out there we have a winning combination, we just have to find the right players with the right attitude, desire and the skills
May 9th 2012 @ 4:36am
Midfielder said | May 9th 2012 @ 4:36am | Report comment
I wonder aloud if the number and quality of juniors is at the core of the problem alluded to in this article.
May 9th 2012 @ 7:36am
Jack said | May 9th 2012 @ 7:36am | Report comment
Much of the commentary about last weeks game assumes that that the Waratahs lost the game rather than the Brumbies won it. Many of the errors were forced by hard defense. Both tries came of sustained forward dominance and the Brumbies bench players out played the Waratah replacement. Many of the metres gained by the Waratahs were easy yards from deep set players moving to the advantage line (not over it). CL ran less metres because he took the ball on the advantage line. Barnes passing was behind the hip of his support too often making them look bad and setting up the turnover on the next one or two phases.
May 9th 2012 @ 7:39am
Grimmace said | May 9th 2012 @ 7:39am | Report comment
I’ve read somewhere recently (maybe on The Roar) that in Australia, we have a similar number of senior players as NZ which has bought me to 2 conclusions.
1. Our player pathways are inferior- I don’t want to start a ARC debate
2. The devlopment of our coaches and the pathways available to them is also not the best, which effects teams/players of all levels
I’ve often thought that just about anyone can coach a professional team to a reasionable standard, its the identifying talent that is the hard bit. Like Bob Dwyer did with players like Kearns and White has done with Mogg, White etc. The next George Smith and Stirling Mortlock is out there, no doubt. But Rugby is chronically bad at identifying young talent and hainging onto it, maybe in part due to the 2 points I mentioned above.
May 9th 2012 @ 12:05pm
Aware said | May 9th 2012 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
There’s no lack of players or coaches. The problem is “passion”. According to the IRB website, we have nearly double the number of players as New Zealand, but they have something special- passion. The same applies to Uruguay in soccer. They are the smallest nation in South America but have won more South America soccer championships than both giants Argentina and Brazil. It’s their passion that defines the way they play and compete. The Reds showed what passion can do when they beat the Crusaders last year in Brisbane. That won’t happen often because the Crusaders have more passion they just about anyone.
May 9th 2012 @ 12:23pm
jon said | May 9th 2012 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
It’s not passion, that’s ridiculous.
In NZ they have a domestic comp, as they do in SA. So there is a whole layer of professional coaching and development work going on beneath Super Rugby level.
All the Currie Cup and ITM Cup teams have academies, as do all the Super Rugby teams in NZ and SA. They have many qualified, professional coaches at the teams and academies who ensure a constant stream of high quality athletes are coming through the system.
Jake White came out and identified it straight away when he came to the Brumbies. He was bewildered at the complete lack of a development pathway for young players in Australia. He said that all Aus S15 teams operate at a massive disadvantage. In SA if a player gets injured, the coach just goes to his academy or reserve squad and selects one of many young players vying to get a starting spot. In Australia, the Brumbies have no true academy, no real reserve team (just a group of Shute Shield players and juniors from the NSW and QLD academies which have to be shared by all five teams and the pickings are slim).
There are two academies in Australia, NSW and QLD (both now run by the ARU). These produce 90% of all Australian pro players.
In NZ and SA they have dozens of academies producing pro players. They have vastly more depth.
While Aus might have more senior players as a whole than NZ (although they have less players overall, which is significant – NZ have much larger numbers of juniors which is where future talent is identified, not at senior level), they have far fewer senior players being coached at a professional standard. Essentially the only pro players in the country are the 150 or so players contracted to the S15 squads, and some of those are foreigners. Many get little game time at the top level and so are not prepared for top level rugby.
I mean if you think the number of amateur senior players has a major bearing on player depth, Sri Lanka should be a rugby superpower. They have more senior male players than Australia. Japan also, has more senior male players than Australia.
It’s a meaningless statistic without context.
What really matters in terms of top level performance is the number of professional players and the standard of the coaching and development of those players and the number of junior players being exposed to top level, professional development and coaching.
May 10th 2012 @ 10:47am
Aware said | May 10th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
“NZ have much larger numbers of juniors”
That’s factually wrong. Check the http://www.irb.com website and select the drop down box entitled “pick your union” then select the countries as appropriate for up-to-date statistics. Australia has both more seniors and more junior males than NZ by quite a significant margin.
Anyway, I stick to my view that passion is the difference, as proven by Uruguay, which is no better organised than Brazil or Argentina in soccer….and don’t forget, Australia won two world cups in rugby with only 3 major teams at the time: Brumbies, Waratahs and Reds.
May 10th 2012 @ 12:32pm
jon said | May 10th 2012 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yeSN53py7PI/TmXJ4UMiD1I/AAAAAAAAAgs/54kHw_zo9AY/s1600/IRB+Player+Numbers.jpg
There it is.
May 10th 2012 @ 1:49pm
Aware said | May 10th 2012 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
I trust the official IRB website against a blogspot any day.
May 10th 2012 @ 12:35pm
jon said | May 10th 2012 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
Sorry were we talking about Australia winning world cups or depth in Australian rugby?
Two very different things. Australia has achieved alot and continues to, with less resources than NZ and SA.
There are a wide variety of reasons they were able to achieve that.
But depth certainly wasn’t one of them.
Ultimately it’s an indisputable fact that NZ and SA have a much larger stream of professional junior pathways. It’s not something that’s debatable.
May 10th 2012 @ 1:58pm
Aware said | May 10th 2012 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
” It’s not something that’s debatable”
I’m not debating that. I’m arguing that passion and hunger count more than pathways or depth or having acadamies, and nothing you’ve said has made me change my mind.
May 11th 2012 @ 10:37am
jon said | May 11th 2012 @ 10:37am | Report comment
Fair enough, agree to disagree.
May 9th 2012 @ 8:36am
Gary Russell-Sharam said | May 9th 2012 @ 8:36am | Report comment
Grimmace you’ve hit the nail on the head. Pardon me for being critical but when I read the headline and some of the gist of the article I thought that the post was about Australian rugby, however upon reading the post it was in reality about the Waratahs and the Brumbies as if they were they only teams of consequence in Australian rugby. If you are going to head the post as Australian rugby please talk about Australian rugby even though I know there is a propensity for Tah’s supporters to suggest that Rugby starts and finishes in NSW.
That being said IMO the pathways are flawed (Grimmace’s opinion) and the ARU is not as forthcoming with supportive guidance as other countries.
May 9th 2012 @ 9:06am
Pillock said | May 9th 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
It seems there is such a focus on the Wallabies and Super 15 that club rugby, where the vast majority of players are, is all but invisible. You only have to look at the numbers in the ARU annual report, player payments $30M plus with distribution to state unions $6M. When you get that situation they have such an investment in current players that they make it difficult to bring on new ones. I don’t know the answer however looks a bit top heavy to me.
As a side note maybe the Brumbies success is partlydue to the fact that they have a flatter pay structure for their “No Name” team.
May 9th 2012 @ 12:24pm
bmwwilliams said | May 9th 2012 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
Gary – Fair point.
I was prompted to write the article after the Brums/Tahs game on the weekend, watching our ‘best players’ underperform and the no-names claim the win.
But the discussion applies to all teams – I think the Reds this year are also an interesting point. Ewen showed last year that some decent coaching can reap great rewards, but seemed to rely more on the established guys (Genia/Cooper/Ioane spring to mind).
Gill looks like he might be a great find, but would love to see some more young’uns coming on, especially now the older guys aren’t firing so hard (And Davies looks like he may have been a one-season wonder)
May 9th 2012 @ 8:48am
sixo_clock said | May 9th 2012 @ 8:48am | Report comment
This year we have seen more genuine Rugby being played by Oz teams than we have for many years. The Rugby basic dynamics that work are appearing fitfully. Our forward packs are taking responsibility and backs are now for the most part aware that breakdowns require support. When we see teams really ramping pressure opportunities and derailing the opponent’s game plan then they will have ‘got’ Rugby. When boys absorb that message and the tools they will be hooked for life. That is the gift this game offers.
Of course it starts with the coaching/mentoring, we should be encouraging former players who did ‘get it’ to take up either course.
May 9th 2012 @ 9:10am
DingoBob said | May 9th 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Interesting. I think it is a big reach to compare the Waratahs to the Crusaders but that aside. I thinkit is interesting that people see White as having brought Jesse Mogg, Nick White and some of the other younger players to the ACT. The fact remains Jesse Mogg and Nick White were already playing Club Rugby in the ACT when Jake White got here. The problem was that some of the higher level players like Ashley-Cooper, Matt Giteau were being favoured over improving and blooding new players. I think at times this is also the problem at the Waratahs. It comes down to opportunity and Rocky Elson is a prime example. Why would the Waratahs buy in a broken down player with minimal game time for the last 2 seasons rather than look to their younger players to fill a gap?
May 9th 2012 @ 12:03pm
redsnut said | May 9th 2012 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
“I think at times this is also the problem at the Waratahs. It comes down to opportunity and Rocky Elson is a prime example. Why would the Waratahs buy in a broken down player with minimal game time for the last 2 seasons rather than look to their younger players to fill a gap?”
Totally agree. Same with Palu. Good as they have been, it’s time they were put out to grass and bring on the new talent.
May 9th 2012 @ 9:57am
Sailosi said | May 9th 2012 @ 9:57am | Report comment
After my spiel about Talelei Grey yesterday it was great to see Steve Mafi (a good western Sydney boy) named in many journalists English Premiership team of the year. It’s always great to see young Australian forwards being lost to Aussie rugby.
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May 9th 2012 @ 10:22am
Bakkies said | May 9th 2012 @ 10:22am | Report comment
Too me it’s simply the coaching and recruiting. The Force have actually got a good squad. Pocock, Sharpe, Shepherd, Cummins, Wykes, Charles, etc are good players but they are poorly coached much like the Brumbies were for a few years under Andy Friend and his assistants. Friend had good win rates in his first couple of seasons but the back and general play was appalling and I knew last year he had to make small improvements, fix the error rates to get the team in to the Finals. Was only a small ask but what we got was armageddon. The Rebels recruited poorly. Stock piled their squad with outside backs and flyhalfs ignoring the forwards and midfield. Plenty of good backrowers in Australia but they recruited Michael Lipman (who was back from a drugs ban in England), Chamberlain and McDonald. Saffy had been out of the game for a long while and Delve has had an injury riddled career. Only Delve has stood tall but has been surpassed by Toby Faletau in the Welsh squad and is off to Toulon. No real long term planning there.
The Brumbies under Laurie Fisher had a very good win rate but missed out on finals places due to lack of try scoring bonus points to teams with less wins. The team was far and away the best team in 2000 under Eddie Jones but threw the Final away against a desperate Crusaders team. Probably the best attacking rugby an Australian team has played. The Tahs despite their two appearances in the Final haven’t looked like winning it. You can produce as much forward ball as you want to but their backs are poorly coached. Todd Louden left after a season due to politics. The Tahs still have no depth at flyhalf and I am struggling to name a successful midfield combination in their history in Super Rugby. Compared to the Brumbies and Reds.
May 9th 2012 @ 11:22am
Who Needs Melon said | May 9th 2012 @ 11:22am | Report comment
I am positive that lack of good coaching that is the main problem in Australian rugby.
We hear again and again the “we don’t have the cattle” line. It’s rubbish. Combine a good coach with average players and he will DEVELOP good players. Combine a bad coach with good players and he will destroy them.
At the moment I’d prefer to get good coaches from overseas than suffer mediocre home grown ones. In the long term it would be nice if we could develop good coaches here in Oz.
I think the best thing we could do to better develop coaches in Oz is to give more coaches more exposure to challenges and pressures as close as possible to those they would face as a Super rugby coach. That is NOT Australian club rugby.
A final note on something more difficult to change: culture/attitudes. It’s interesting how cut-throat the coaching world is compared to the player world. Although players compete for spots, better players will more often than not help to develop the up-and-comers. I don’t think this happens in the coaching ranks. I think I might have suggested last year McKenzie coming into the Wallabies structure to support Deans. Everyone thought I was mad. They said Deans wouldn’t go for it because he doesn’t want any successes he might achieve being attributable to someone else or anyone undermining him. And McKenzie wouldn’t want it because he wants the top job for himself and doesn’t want the head coach reaping the rewards for his efforts. Whilst these attitudes are completely understandable, jeez I would admire people who could rise above them.