The players are right: bring back AFL State of Origin
By Michael DiFabrizio, 11 May 2012 Michael DiFabrizio is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- AFL, AFL players association, AFL state of origin
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News surfaced yesterday that the AFL Players Association are leading a push to return State of Origin footy, possibly as soon as next year.
Proposals were discussed at an AFLPA meeting on Wednesday night.
President Luke Ball told the Herald Sun: “A straw poll of our players suggested there was strong interest in reviving some form of State of Origin or a ‘best of’ scenario.”
It’s not the first time players have voiced their approval of the concept, but it was a sign they are now getting serious about it.
And it came on the back of news last year that a discussion between club CEOs and the league was supportive of taking a closer look at Origin.
First, though, let’s deal with the inevitable. The naysayers.
At the time of writing yesterday, 90.33% of respondents to a Superfooty poll said the AFL should bring back State of Origin. But there’s a vocal minority that are convinced Origin has no place in the modern game.
Their argument centres around the reasons that brought about Origin’s demise being some kind of sign it should stay buried. But just how relevant are those reasons today?
Let’s take a look.
Reason #1: When the league introduced the Eagles and Crows, it took the passion out of Origin
This is true. With the Eagles and Crows, the people of Western Australia and South Australia could all of the sudden see their boys week in, week out. That obviously had an impact on Origin’s standing.
But what about today? Those two markets are now well and truly two-team towns; support is divided, not united.
In addition, expansion means “their boys” are going to be shipped off interstate more often.
Reason #2: Players grew tired of representing their state
Again, this is something that did happen. But there was a reason for it: overkill.
State of Origin being held annually, and sometimes with states playing more than one game in a year, was just asking for trouble. But there’s nothing to say it has to be that way now.
The players do want to represent their state, don’t forget that, but to ask them to do it again and again is something that can be avoided.
Reason #3: Clubs don’t want their prized assets playing Origin
At that meeting last year, it was the club CEOs that told the AFL to look into the idea further. Clubs are obviously a hurdle, but maybe not as much of a big one as has been made out.
Once more, by not going down the annual path their concerns have to be eased. The real clincher, though, could be avoiding mid-season and holding it pre-season instead. This is an idea favoured by the players.
If you must go down the mid-season path – MCG availability is a reason it may go that way – follow the idea of Graham Cornes and make players who pull out unavailable for their next club game.
Reason #4: We’re a club game, we don’t need a representative form of the game
This insular type of thinking needs to stop.
Look at how Australia rallies behind the Socceroos in a World Cup year. Look at the passion on display when New South Wales and Queensland meet in rugby league’s Origin. Look at the enormous public interest in our cricketers over summer.
Clearly, we are conceding ground to other codes by not having a true form of representative footy.
Reason #5: You cannot have an All-Stars side, you cannot hold it for longer than a week, you cannot exclude any states, etc.
There’s plenty of cannots when it comes to State of Origin. So I came up with a can.
A system of promotion and relegation, which I unveiled in column on The Roar last August, answers every single one of the typical “you cannot” calls.
Have a look at it. Consider the rebuttals to the familiar complaints.
Then tell me we can’t bring back State of Origin.
State of Origin proposal:

Some of the feedback it has received:
Daily Telegraph AFL writer Neil Cordy (@neilcordy):
“You’ve done some fine work. Love seeing stars playing together that otherwise wouldn’t.”
AFL.com.au writer Ashley Browne (@afl_hashbrowne):
“not bad, only marginally less complicated than the World Cup cricket super sixes”
Daniel Clough (@cluffdog):
“that’s the most sense I’ve seen since this topic was raised. Bit worried about crowd sizes for the lower seeds but love it”
Andrew Leonard:
“Great concept – but include the ACT to make it 4 games over an Origin weekend – it would be brilliant. Play one game on the Friday night, one Saturday arvo and evening and one Sunday.”
The Cattery:
“I have to admit, this is the best AFL SOO concept I have ever come across – it has potential. It has potential because the reality is that you’re only going to get away with one weekend per annum, no more, and it’s a genius way to accommodate 8 teams.”
Dingo:
“Great idea Michael, this is the only formula I’ve seen that has any hope of working imo. I like Andrew’s input also, you blokes might be onto something. Hopefully the powers at AFL House read the article, it could get some legs.”
James of Ascot Vale:
“The concept is great. I like Michael DiFabrizio’s idea of 1 game, but with 4 divisions with promotion and relegation… each game has meaning.”
Michael DiFabrizio is completing his journalism degree. As an AFL writer, he has been an expert columnist at The Roar since 2009, and appeared in The Age and on ABC television and radio. Follow Michael on twitter @mdifabrizio
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May 11th 2012 @ 7:50am
Australian Rules said | May 11th 2012 @ 7:50am | Report comment
Michael, the format you’ve devised is good.
I understand the AFLPA have put it back on the table.
But I truly thought AFL had evolved beyond SoO. Those old colonial rivalries just don’t exist they way they do for NSW and QLD. The game has become national not just in format but, importantly, in attitude.
The main reason I’m against it is… if Gary Ablett and Nathan Bock both got injured playing a Vic v SA exhibition match before Round 1 of the Season…the Suns’ season would be derailed completely. The effect that would have on the team, the League, the region, crowds etc…just not worth it.
I understand the AFLPA have put it back on the table….but there are too many irons in the fire atm…wait another 5 years, then see.
May 11th 2012 @ 11:07am
Bludger said | May 11th 2012 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Agree 100 percent.
People now forget what a pain it was. You would have your stars playing in what was a meaningless exhibition and then they get injured for what?
Every year this stupid argument comes up about SOO. The only reason it works in NRL is because there is only 2 states and their club games so little interest and their internationals are garbage.
May 11th 2012 @ 2:19pm
Mango Jack said | May 11th 2012 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
“club games so little interest “. Check TV ratings figures before you make silly comments like this, bludger. Yes, crowd figures are smaller than AFL, but that is only one measure of support.
May 11th 2012 @ 7:43pm
Bludger said | May 11th 2012 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
Point is, the pinnacle of the RL season is this SoO, whilst for Australian football it is the finals and the GF. That is what they play for. In RL the mentality is completely different. Personally, if I was an NRL fan I would not want my players wasted on it during the season.
Good luck to RL, we invented SoO, they have grabbed it and ran with it. I got into the footy version of it for a few years in the mid 1980s until I woke up to it being just an high scoring exhibition to the benefit of the South and West Aussies who had a chance to see the big bad Vics play in the flesh.
You simply cannot do it meaningfully in the modern game because of the wear and tear to the players and at the end of the season all the guns are getting operations done and want to go on holidays.
Most of all the fans did not support it in the end. Crowds dropped right off, particularly when they started trying to get these composite sides into it like the ‘Allies’. Load of rubbish.
May 11th 2012 @ 7:54am
Frank Lee Kennedy said | May 11th 2012 @ 7:54am | Report comment
The biggest hurdle is, who is eligible for a State, someone who is born there, played juniors there first or drafted there (like Folau/Hunt)? Lots of arguments in RLeague about that, until there is a clear cut agreement between the States, no games shall be played. Also, the 3 traditional AFL states have massive sides compare with the minor states, it will be like a Collingwood versus GWS game, is anyone interested to watch that game? Idea is good, but it won’t be successful unless the coaches willing to sacrifice the best players for the State and do not withdraw the players with false injuries. Just remember, coaches are payed by the Clubs, responsible for the Clubs and success has its price, same as failure. No honest coach will say, the State is more important than the Club.
May 11th 2012 @ 10:27am
Cameron said | May 11th 2012 @ 10:27am | Report comment
And this is the only reason why RL SOO is successful – because it is bigger than the regular comp, and that is why coaches are willing to give up their players even if it risks a premiership because of injury. Can anyone honestly say AFL SOO will ever grow bigger and more important then the regular comp? – I don’t think so.
May 11th 2012 @ 4:25pm
Frank Lee Kennedy said | May 11th 2012 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
As I mentioned above, the idea of SOO in AFL is a good one. There have quite few serious issues to sort out, but who said that in 30 years time they cannot match the NRL SOO? Who was the brave fellow to predict that the NRL SOO will be in the 10 top rated TV programs in every year in the past 10 years?
I have a feeling that it can be achieved in the AFL, with a change of attitude from the Hierarchy/Coaches/Players and Fans above all. Unless the fans wholeheartedly endorse it, it won’t work; they are the ones who have to put pressure on Coaches to let their players play SOO first and foremost. The rest is just timing and sorting out availability issues. The only other hindrance is they have 3 major states, not 2 so who plays against who will be a big issue.
It can be done as long as the AFL does not get sensitive about ratings in the first couple of years. Obviously they want to be No.1 not No.2 in ratings wise so until this siege mentality (being behind) is solved mentally, they won’t be successful.
May 11th 2012 @ 4:48pm
The Cattery said | May 11th 2012 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
Nah – we’ve already had 90+k turn up to SOO games in the past – and that’s where it belongs – in the past.
We first started playing rep games in the 1870s – it’s passe now – it’s gone.
Over 100 years ago we used to have regular carnivals that involved all six states (plus NZ).
A measure of our progress and maturity as a competition is precisely the fact that we’ve outgrown this state vs state silliness.
May 11th 2012 @ 5:01pm
Frank Lee Kennedy said | May 11th 2012 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
Just a quick (business) answer without the accurate stats: from memory the NRL SOO attracts over 10 mill on TV, without that the AFL would have out rated NRL last year on TV.
It is not nothing, when your sport is paid on advertising revenue as well by the TV Czars.
May 11th 2012 @ 5:29pm
The Cattery said | May 11th 2012 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
Frank
Whatever the NRL’s SOO gets in ratings, good as they are, does not underpin a strong broadcasting deal on its own.
The AFL’s deal is predicated on solid, consistent ratings, every weekend, for six months. Those 3 SOO games are worth a round of AFL footy. That’s very good because we are comparing 3 games with 9 games, bu the point is that there are 9 games every week for 22 weeks (or thereabouts).
The peaks are nice – but that’s not where the money is. The money is in consistently strong ratings every weekend for a long period.
We are about to see the truth of what I have just written in the next few months – not that we need to see any evidence, because the truth has been ever present for the last 25 years.
May 11th 2012 @ 4:56pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 11th 2012 @ 4:56pm | Report comment
Frank,
I dont *want* Australian Rules to match rugby league where the entire first half of the season is regarded as a selection trial for Origin.
I dont want Australian Rules to match rugby league where the entire middle of the season is crippled by players recovering from Origin.
I dont want Australian Rules to match rugby league where fan, sponsor and television attention is pulled away from the week-to-week club games, in exchange for three good crowds and three good nights ratings a year.
State of Origin – crippling rugby league.
May 11th 2012 @ 5:08pm
Frank Lee Kennedy said | May 11th 2012 @ 5:08pm | Report comment
Fair cough Ian, lots of truths in what you are saying. Just please check ONE statistics: which sports rates better on TV on the NRL SOO games week? More viewers, more Ads, more money. As long as you get better stats financially, you convinced me. Remember SOO is not a Game, it is business, it is for the COIN. Over to you.
May 11th 2012 @ 5:19pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 11th 2012 @ 5:19pm | Report comment
Frank,
Yes. But its a game that cannibalises your existing game.
If I want to sponsor the very best rugby league, I dont want to be associated with a club side – I want to be associated with State of Origin.
Origin is a cancer that is eating rugby league from the inside out.
May 11th 2012 @ 5:26pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 11th 2012 @ 5:26pm | Report comment
Frank,
Look at the week by week averages.
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/2011.html
See that dip in the middle of the season in average crowds ?
Thats Origin.
May 11th 2012 @ 5:13pm
MFB1991 said | May 11th 2012 @ 5:13pm | Report comment
Why do you stress about Rugby League so much Ian ? Let it go mate……it’ll be alright. It seems like you want AFL to be an insular equivalent of the American Isolationist policies of the 1930′s. You’ll have to think bigger than that surely !
May 11th 2012 @ 5:46pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 11th 2012 @ 5:46pm | Report comment
MFB1991,
Because I love the great game of rugby league, and I want it to prosper
May 12th 2012 @ 9:56pm
Frank Lee Kennedy said | May 12th 2012 @ 9:56pm | Report comment
Ian, if your statement “But its a game that cannibalises your existing game.” would be right, we would not wait with so much excitement every year for the SOO period.
Rugby League State of Origin is the SHOWPIECE of the “great game of rugby league” as you mentioned. That’s why it prospered.
May 11th 2012 @ 8:22am
Macca said | May 11th 2012 @ 8:22am | Report comment
I reckon a Queensland team could beat a SA team,
Qld Dayne Beams, Lachlan Keefe, Shaun Hampson, Karmichael Hunt, Josh Drummond, Daniel Merrett, Zac Smith, Jarrod Harbrow, Ben Warren amongst others…..they could well and truly take on a SA team. Probably not a WA team, but SA I think they could.
May 11th 2012 @ 10:14am
Cameron said | May 11th 2012 @ 10:14am | Report comment
Again, player eligibility – K Hunt was born in NZ yet you have him playing for QLD in a “origin” game – What is going to be the criteria?
May 11th 2012 @ 1:02pm
Sean said | May 11th 2012 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
Jim Stynes played for Victoria. Hunt would be QLD eligible for SoO and Israel Folau for NSW under “first senior game” rules.
May 11th 2012 @ 12:00pm
Fischer said | May 11th 2012 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
Karmichael Hunt. Are you kidding? You must be deluded if you think he is a top-tier player already. Getting there, but not yet Macca Pacca.
May 11th 2012 @ 12:30pm
Cameron said | May 11th 2012 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
If he was eligible to play for QLD, he would be selected, if just for marketing purposes. Heck, he could even be considered a “dual representitive” since he played in Queensland’s RL SOO team… one of the reason’s why SOO in AFL with the author’s model is a bit of a joke
May 11th 2012 @ 2:10pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 11th 2012 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
There is something *remarkably* amusing about Macca being criticised over him considering Khunt a top-tier player …
May 11th 2012 @ 2:15pm
Macca said | May 11th 2012 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
Different Macca Ian!
May 11th 2012 @ 2:28pm
Adrian said | May 11th 2012 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
I’d suggest an SA team with the likes of Pavlich, Scotty Thompson, Rutten, Johncock, Mackie, Hurn, Jacobs, Griffen, Gibbs, Porplyzia amongst many others would humiliate a Queensland team.
May 11th 2012 @ 2:36pm
Macca said | May 11th 2012 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
Come on Adrian, Hunt by himself would be able to bump their way to victory, I mean he is going to revolutionise the game with it!!!
The sheer volume from which SA could draw it’s team from in comparison to QLd would be enough to point to a SA victory, Cooney is another
May 11th 2012 @ 2:52pm
Macca said | May 11th 2012 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
Sorry, computer issue,
Cooney is another who could play for SA, Didak might get a game you could name names all day.
May 11th 2012 @ 6:51pm
TJ said | May 11th 2012 @ 6:51pm | Report comment
QLD also has N. Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert, Osborne, Tippett, Courtney Dempsey, David Hale,
May 11th 2012 @ 8:25am
Redb said | May 11th 2012 @ 8:25am | Report comment
Good work Michael, a very well thought out article.
I jump from agreeing to not agreeing based more on whether there is an appetite for the concept from the stakeholders. Fans tick yes, players now tick yes, coaches tick no, clubs haven’t yet decided.
We’ve seen how Origin in RL is a success for the State v State game but it somewhat compromises their NRL comp during the Origin window. Going to pre or post season would mitigate that somewhat. I see the players are talking about replacing the last week of NAB Cup.
The last week is when most clubs field ther better teams and as the season is only 2 weeks away the performances are in most cases optimised to replicate the real season.
It is a quandary for the AFL as there is no obvious solution but with the players support its definitely worth a look.
If we got to a situation that a Victorian Big V team was assembled with the all the big names playing against a full strength Western Australian team, I have no doubt it would fill the MCG. A true contest to establish State bragging rights would be a cracker.
May 11th 2012 @ 8:47am
Frank Lee Kennedy said | May 11th 2012 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Redb, I agree with almost everything you said, with one exception: 2 weeks before the season the players are 50% of full match fitness. Ask any coach, they will tell you that the players will be in REAL form only after 6-8 rounds. So unless you play the SOO in mid season, it will look like a warm up game, rather than a real contest.
May 11th 2012 @ 10:56am
Cameron said | May 11th 2012 @ 10:56am | Report comment
Redb
The only reason why players “tick yes” is because they are asked by journos and want to be seen as positive in the eyes of the public
May 11th 2012 @ 6:54pm
BigAl said | May 11th 2012 @ 6:54pm | Report comment
Very, very true !
May 11th 2012 @ 8:40am
Redb said | May 11th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
In the longer term, beyond the current 5 year TV deal which guarantees 9 games a week, there perhaps might be an opportunity to shorten the H & A season to accomodate an even draw whilst replacing the lost games and revenue with a State Carnival as described above.
Could a 20 team comp (play each other once) with a Origin State Comp work in the future?
May 11th 2012 @ 8:54am
Ian Whitchurch said | May 11th 2012 @ 8:54am | Report comment
Redb,
Turbodewd has the same dumb idea for rugby league, and its dumb for Australian rules for the same reason it’s dumb for rugby league.
Theres two risks for the AFL in SoO – if it fails, and if it succeeds.
If it fails, then it’s a waste of time and money, and players getting injured doing things other than trying to win the flag.
If it succeeds, then it sucks fans, sponsors and attendees away from the week-in, week-out club games, just like it has in rugby league. Just go read the League threads here – the premiership games at this time of year are mere selection trials for Origin.
The idea of abandoning 250-300 000 attendees and nine games on television for three nights of Origin games, two of which are going to involve *by definition* inferior teams is remarkably dumb as well.
No rep football is actually the greatest strength the AFL has. If you want to see what rep games do to a code, look at cricket – Paddington used to get eight thousand to a game to watch Victor Trumper bat.
May 11th 2012 @ 12:20pm
Redb said | May 11th 2012 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
Ian,
I’m suggesting a 20 team comp which would mean 10 games a week not 9. Not sure of the number of games but with 2-3 fewer rounds but 1 game more per round it would probably end up similiar number, add in Origin games.
I also stated it needs to be full strength to work.
May 11th 2012 @ 6:40pm
Timmuh said | May 11th 2012 @ 6:40pm | Report comment
Twenty teams playing nineteen games each would lead to eighteen less games if my maths is right. The AFL would almost certainly expand the finals to even more ridiculous levels adding another week and another five or six games back in.
Personally, I think the only time the clubs would allow players to take part would be post-season in place of the IR series. Even then, however, players would have medical attention – the necessity of which would be questionable in some cases.
I just don’t see the appetite for it, which is unfortunate because I loved SoO.
May 11th 2012 @ 9:44pm
mds1970 said | May 11th 2012 @ 9:44pm | Report comment
It would mean half the clubs would only get nine home games. Is that enough?
May 11th 2012 @ 7:28pm
Milz said | May 11th 2012 @ 7:28pm | Report comment
Were you there to see Trumper bat Ian?
May 11th 2012 @ 8:43am
BigAl said | May 11th 2012 @ 8:43am | Report comment
“… Herald Sun … straw poll… suggested … strong interest … some form of …” ?? – geeesh !!! – give us a break.
p.s. Michael, you have my permission to add this post to your “feedback” list in the article
May 11th 2012 @ 8:49am
mds1970 said | May 11th 2012 @ 8:49am | Report comment
Forget it. State of Origin died with Ted Whitten. Without Mister Football around, no-one cared enough to attend or play.
Clubs and players may in theory say they support State of Origin, but in practice they only support it if it involves the best of other clubs but not their own. If the AFL ever brought it back, which they won’t, stand by for an epidemic of players pulling out with broken fingernails and “general soreness”. Clubs will be reluctant to release their players for this meaningless exhibition game which would see them use different game plans to what the club coaches are trying to introduce to their players and see them risking injuries that would see them miss club games.
May 11th 2012 @ 9:25am
The Cattery said | May 11th 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
As much as I like MdF’s concept, I think mds is right here and indeed MdF doesn’t disagree in this article: the minute you have star player pulling out because they have a sore toe, the gig is up.
May 11th 2012 @ 3:14pm
Macca said | May 11th 2012 @ 3:14pm | Report comment
Interesting to see in the paper today that players are already being listed as injured rather than resting to save salary cap money and I expect the same would happen here. I mean the AFL are putting byes into the draw to ensure the best players play more often it defeat’s the purpose if on the bye week the best then play each other.
May 11th 2012 @ 4:29pm
Jaredsbro said | May 11th 2012 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
Nah this is just the same unilateral b.s. I’ve seen for a few years now in my time on this website. Clubs shouldn’t be left to decide, because if that’s the case the fans will never get what they want. The clubs are about being financially viable, if they’re not they tend to lose on the field in the long run…but fans are in it for the fire that burns within. And having two competitions allows for more fire, for mine.
I notice it more with Australian Football fans than most others from Australia: that the club is something like Hitler was at Nuremberg, it’s all that matters…and it only matters because you can’t see the possibility of something that is parallel which is not a rival.
State of Origin in Rugby League is not a threat to the clubs…in fact it benefits them, but generally only the Sydney clubs or the Warriors, where there’s always plenty of stars who don’t make it. But in terms of those clubs that do have stars playing in the game, they tend to benefit from the fire being built up in their belly by the pre-match camp and the game itself.
Only those clubs where Queenslanders tend to agglomerate are disadvantaged and they know what they can do about that if it gets too hot to handle.
May 11th 2012 @ 4:45pm
The Cattery said | May 11th 2012 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
Jaredsbro
What do the fans want?
The members own the clubs. They want to see their best players helping the club succeed.
At the end of the day, they don’t give a damn about parochial rubbish like which state beat which state.
You can’t compare the parochialism of a Queenslander with the parochialism of a Victorian, in comparison, Victorians are barely parochial about their state.
May 11th 2012 @ 4:54pm
Jaredsbro said | May 11th 2012 @ 4:54pm | Report comment
I defer to your knowledge about Victorians The Cattery, but members are just one type of fans. They pay for the game/ their club, and so we should all be thankful for that…but there are fans who are fans of the game. And there is this thing called expansion which is premised on much the same logic, granted outside of Victoria but I bet the 3rd WA team would be appealing to these fans.
It might be that Victoria struggles with this as there are plenty of clubs there to choose from. Something like the same number of ‘elite’ clubs as there are in London in the Football Leagues. That’s just unfortunate as the rest of the world of footballs does care and you Southerners’ population (with the exception of certain immigrant groups) are shrinking in proportion to the rest of the world.
But where does the star of a failing club go to get inspired by other stars. Not a mickey mouse expo, this would be a competitive contest. Unless one expects their club’s star to have a doctorate in playing at the same level every week, and I think human nature might rule the day there.
May 11th 2012 @ 5:12pm
The Cattery said | May 11th 2012 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
Jaredsbro
I’ve been around footy a long time (about 40 Years). I remember when rep games were played pre-SOO (and Victoria would thrash everyone else), and I remember the start of SOO and its growth over the next 10 to 15 years.
In both eras, even in the years when SOO were attracting 90+k to the MCG, the fragility of the concept was ever present.
The minute you have elite players preferring to rest their bodies rather than play a relatively meaningless game, usually with the encouragement of club and coaches, is when the fans switch off. The members will be happy to see their stars sitting it out.
This is the one thing we are all guilty of doing: underestimating the toll on players bodies getting through 25 to 26 games each year. Don’t bother comparing with what other sports do – those that understand the game know very well that those 25 to 26 games constitute a gruelling season.
So if mid-season, four or five of the best clubs are in the race for a premiership, why on Earth would they want their best players mucking around in an extra game? The clubs have one focus, one only, and members pay money to support the clubs in that objective.
There is only one prize. Whichever way you want to cut it and slice, there is only one prize. So creating little side activities that take the focus away from that one prize, that potentially diminish a team’s capacity to win that prize – are doomed to failure – no matter how great they sound in theory.
May 11th 2012 @ 10:10pm
ManInBlack said | May 11th 2012 @ 10:10pm | Report comment
I remember going to watch a Vic v WA SoO at the MCG and all I cared about were the couple of North players involved. I really couldn’t get that involved – very similar to the feel around an Int Rules game or even a T20 match. It was a side show.
Ironic then – as a neutral – around the same time I went to Geel vs Carl at the MCG and it felt so much different – as a neutral – and with no players from my club. I’m not sure how I’d feel these days.
For carnival events every 3 years I’m absolutely loving the amateur international cup. Great contests and a totally different ‘culture’ compared to the professional/club based players.
May 12th 2012 @ 6:07am
The_Wookie said | May 12th 2012 @ 6:07am | Report comment
Id argue that Players are soft. The VFL consisted of 22 rounds + finals + origin + various forms of the NAB Cup for over 30 years prior to the “AFL” era. Grounds were in SHOCKING condition. Players were nowhere near as fit, they didnt have cosy stadiums with no roof and no weather, and they got paid 3/10ths of bugger all to do it all.
If they can do it, there is absolutely NO reason why a modern player with nice, well maintained grounds, half the games played under a roof with no weather, and the best sports science known to mankind. We’re paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to players who are getting lazier and lazier. Seriously demanding an EXTRA bye? resting through the year? ffs.
I cannot buy into the idea that 25 games is a more gruelling season say than a 26 round rugby league season with origin, all stars and internationals thrown in. Or a soccer season with 30 games, finals, friendlies, world cup qualifiers, ACL and christ alone knows what else.
The concept died because it simply became too hard for the AFL. Pllayers have always wanted to play, clubs havent wanted them to. The AFL\, as the world governing body should have smacked them all down in the 90s, but it caved. Then we got half baked Allies and all stars concepts and people just stopped caring, the AFL barely even promoted the last few.
If the players want it and the broadcasters want it, iand the AFL and clubs can work it out, it’ll go ahead. And it should. If it comes down to international rules or Origin, I know what Id prefer.
May 12th 2012 @ 8:59am
The Cattery said | May 12th 2012 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Are you trying to argue the game was more demanding in the 80s than it is now? 25+ years ago the game was played at a snail’s pace compared to now.
May 12th 2012 @ 10:39am
The_Wookie said | May 12th 2012 @ 10:39am | Report comment
Just because a game is now faster doesnt make it more physical. Look at the differences in defensive tactics alone. Key defenders and forwards always fought – the stuff that Haydeny Ballantyne and others like him get chasitised for – that was the go across the entire field. Players hit packs harder. Contested footy was genuine contested footy. Hip and shoulders went with the game. Do I think the game was more physical – you bet I do.
The pace the game is played at is irrelevant, in fact while most injuries back then were primarily clash or contest related, the majority of major injuries arent a result of contests at all.
May 12th 2012 @ 11:44am
Jaredsbro said | May 12th 2012 @ 11:44am | Report comment
Yes but the point is not so much about them playing more games, ie getting bigger bang from buck, tho in Rugby League they do choose to play more…and obviously the clubs apply pressure. What I’m talking about is having them benefit the club by being re-energised by their rep team mates.
This might sound a bit too ‘socialist’ for you, but it’s definitely the case in Rugby League and is so even in the ‘meaningless’ ANZAC tests, where Australia are almost shoo-ins to always win. Here there’s only so much pressure to win, even though there is still some.
Yet you get the re-energising. I believe players who were shoo-ins for Origin often play, and in the case of Johanatan Thurston I believe the ANZAC test actually helped him and therefore North Queensland get to the level they are right at the moment.
Now the AFL’s probably never going to have an international component, so that’s why it’s easy to get into this dichotomy of SoO/club where both are seen as threats to the other, but rep games can be as you say non origin-style…and can be treated like a footnote/build up to the big club games.
And guess what the best way to prepare for a big game is to take two steps up, so if things go wrong you can take a step down and still keep it all together and thus for your club to get the benefit.
Maybe the cost is to miss a few lower-level club matches if this were to happen, but otherwise I feel you’re left with just comparing the best on paper…which leaves the fans potentially disillusioned and prob just as horrible, people start channeling their support for only the big clubs, a market-determined outcome.
May 12th 2012 @ 11:59am
Ian Whitchurch said | May 12th 2012 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Wookie,
Here is some play from 1991 – it’s part of the Tour de Lockett series
The game is so much slower, and the players are so much less fit.
May 12th 2012 @ 12:57pm
Australian Rules said | May 12th 2012 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Wookie, I watch plenty of games from the 80s.
Yes, we all get nostalgic about the good ol biffo and toughness…but you cannot, possibly, contend that today’s game is not faster, harder (running) and more akin to elite athleticism than what it was 20+ years ago.
The sheer intensity of the modern game leaves the old game for dead. Tackle after tackle, effort after effort, constant spread, zoning, running…..
May 11th 2012 @ 8:55am
Football United said | May 11th 2012 @ 8:55am | Report comment
by far the best concept and another great bit is that you get to play
bigger interest games in places that don’t normally get a game, the
most even match ups possible while still including everyone as well as
the guarantee of different matches every series. i don’t think there
could be any harm in playing a ACT team in the 4th tier so someone
like the NT doesn’t miss out but then again it creates a good
relegation like punishment for losing. The only issue is deciding
which teams get home advantage so no one misses out on a home match
more than one series in a row. Possibly if both teams played home or
both were away last series then a coin will need to be tossed.
how i would schedule them (assuming an act team is involved) with top div or rivalry games generally on the Friday or Saturday nights and the smaller ones in the arvos to get the crowds along.
*winning states are in capitals*
2013
Friday 7:30pm VIC vs wa MCG
Saturday 3:00pm NT vs act Marrara Stadium
Saturday 7:30pm Qld vs nsw Gabba
Sunday 3:00pm SA vs tas Adelaide Oval
2015
Friday 7:30PM sa vs VIC Adelaide Oval
Saturday 3:00pm NSW vs act Skoda Stadium
Saturday 7:30pm WA vs qld Subiaco
Sunday 3:00pm TAS vs nt Aurora Stadium
2017
Friday 7:30pm TAS vs as Aurora Stadium
Saturday 3:00pm act vs NT Manuka Oval
Saturday 7:30pm vic vs WA MCG
Sunday 3:00pm NSW vs qld Sydney Showgrounds
May 11th 2012 @ 9:01am
Ian Whitchurch said | May 11th 2012 @ 9:01am | Report comment
Crowd estimates
2013
Friday 7:30pm VIC vs wa MCG *50 000* [should get a decent crowd]
Saturday 3:00pm NT vs act Marrara Stadium *10 000* [same as a h+a game there]
Saturday 7:30pm Qld vs nsw Gabba *30 000* [same as a h+a game there]
Sunday 3:00pm SA vs tas Adelaide Oval *20 000* [utterly uncompetitive]
So, we have an estimated gate of 110 000. We dont have games on 1pm Saturday, 1 pm Sunday, or anything in WA.
We miss out of a collective hundred and fifty thousand punters through the gate on average, and nine hours of TV games to sell.
Stupid idea is stupid.
May 11th 2012 @ 9:07am
mds1970 said | May 11th 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Even those numbers are generous. No way would Queensland v NSW at the Gabba pull anywhere near 30,000. 15,000 max.
May 11th 2012 @ 10:06am
piesman2011 said | May 11th 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
This wouldnt affect numbers if it was in the preseason. Most of the great players dont play round 1 NAB cup or only play half a game. because of this you could run SOO during NAB cup round 1
May 11th 2012 @ 10:16am
Ian Whitchurch said | May 11th 2012 @ 10:16am | Report comment
Piesman,
If you’re taking it seriously, presumably you’d want to have the players in a pre-SOO camp, and that would disrupt the heck out of a preseason – especially one that involves a new coach or a new game plan.
If you arent taking it seriously, why bother ?
If it’s in preseason, then you also dont have the MCG etc, on account of the cricket season.
May 11th 2012 @ 10:34am
piesman2011 said | May 11th 2012 @ 10:34am | Report comment
Ian,
Some of the best SOO games (AFL ) have been a good attacking brand of footy and probabaly have been better as a spectacle because of little preplaning. All I would really want with SOO is to see the best players in the league playing some exciting football against the best. A preSOO camp may detract from this.
As for the MCG not being avaliable I dont think it really matters. We should be playing more grand final like games in WA, SA, Qld and NSW. The docklands also has a good atmosphere when full.
May 11th 2012 @ 7:38pm
Football United said | May 11th 2012 @ 7:38pm | Report comment
so do it after the grand final and then you wont have any ‘missing punters’ to whinge and whine about. do people complain about the ‘missing tv hours’ or potential injuries of the international rules comp?
May 12th 2012 @ 6:10am
The_Wookie said | May 12th 2012 @ 6:10am | Report comment
this is what ive been saying. It should be done after the grand final, players have time to recuperate before the season starts. Hell if you tour ireland thats weeks out of your schedule anyway. And that hybrid game is RUBBISH compared to Origin.
May 11th 2012 @ 9:11am
Lucan said | May 11th 2012 @ 9:11am | Report comment
Was a fan of your format from the get-go, Michael, good work.
As for the folk crying about potential injuries, none of our AFL clubs are paying our players Messi, Rooney, CRonaldo money, but those guys always manage to make themselves available for rep football when it isn’t in the best interest of their employers.
May 11th 2012 @ 9:30am
Frank Lee Kennedy said | May 11th 2012 @ 9:30am | Report comment
Lucan, those players play for their Country, not for their State. Massive difference. In Football it is the Greatest Honour to play for your Country, cannot compare it to SOO. Even without money involved, it is the best day in your life when you hear the National Anthem.
As an ex-Football (Soccer) player from Europe, believe me.
May 13th 2012 @ 10:24pm
amazonfan said | May 13th 2012 @ 10:24pm | Report comment
It’s all relative. For a domestic competition with a salary cap in a country of 21 million people that isn’t of particularly popular internationally, quite a few are being paid the Australian equivalent of Messi, Rooney, CRonaldo money. Regardless, whether international soccer players make themselves available for representative matches isn’t all that relevant. Do you really think that Carlton, if faced with Judd’s playing SOO, could give a stuff what Barcelona does with Messi?
May 11th 2012 @ 9:22am
SportsFanMelb said | May 11th 2012 @ 9:22am | Report comment
Like the idea of bringing back SOO, but people advocating ACT to have their own side cant be serious. I would combine NSW/ACT as they do with the under age comps and split Vic into Vic Metro and Vic Country. There are more than enough VIC produced players to have two solid squads competing in SOO. So for an opening round maybe the following draw can be looked at:
Vic Metro v SA – Friday Night – MCG (should be 50K +)
QLD v NSW/ACT – Saturday Day – Gabba (should be 20K – 25k)
WA v Vic Country – Saturday Night – Subiaco (should sell out)
Tas v NT – Sunday Afternoon – Launceston (should sell out)
That way we don’t have any team missing out for years at a time, we have 4 games across the weekend and it gives plenty of spots for representative honours.
May 11th 2012 @ 12:16pm
Gr8trWeStr said | May 11th 2012 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
Its hardly State of Origin if you have two Victorian sides and a combined NSW/ACT side. It may be representative football but not State of Origin.
May 11th 2012 @ 2:25pm
SportsFanMelb said | May 11th 2012 @ 2:25pm | Report comment
Probably need to split because to many quality players would be left on the sideline from Vic and this way it also makes makes it a 4 game weekend, which I imagine the AFL and broadcasters would want if it ever was to go ahead.
I myself would be cheering for Vic Country as this is where I grew up and played all my junior footy before moving to Melbourne.
With regard to ACT – its not a state and there is no way enough players currently on AFL lists have been produced there to justify a team on a origin weekend. If its good enough for all junior representative footy it should be good enough for the seniors considering some of these guys probably played with/for each other as juniors in any case.
They are minor issues in the scheme of things really, splitting VIC would not be an issue I don’t think, I think a Vic Metro v Vic Country game at the MCG at some stage would get a great crowd!
May 11th 2012 @ 4:00pm
Mattay said | May 11th 2012 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
They used to say that back in the 80′s, but SA more than held their own against the Vics and is what created the great rivalry in the first place – that the Vics thought SA (& WA) footballers were inferior, and SA/WA footballers loved to shove it up the Vics.
But it will be hard to be the same without Whitten/Kerley/ hell even Graham Cornes at least got the State parochialism going. Don’t know who from the new breed could generate that kind of hype and bitterness between the fans.
PS – SA v Vic should be the marquee game. Arguably WA would have the better team than SA player for player, but SA v Vic has the history.
May 11th 2012 @ 12:38pm
Redb said | May 11th 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
Dont agree with splitting Vic Metro and Vic Country – lacks bite.