NRL must not ditch suburban grounds
Roar Pro By Paul Arandale, 12 May 2012 Paul Arandale is a Roar Pro
Money is once again getting in the way of tradition, as a secret push is on to abandon the suburban ground for bigger stadia.
The reason behind this idea is that the State Government would prefer not to fund redevelopments to suburban grounds.
Furthermore, the two-stadium system works in AFL. Yet what works for one code doesn’t necessarily work for another.
The problem for the NRL is that Sydney does not have the infrastructure of Melbourne.
In Melbourne fans can travel by car, tram, rail, bus or even walk to the big two venues.
In Sydney it is much more complicated getting from A to B.
Manly and Cronulla fans have no benefit leaving their suburban grounds for ANZ or Allianz stadium.
A rail trip from Caringbah can take 45 minutes just to get to Central station. Then you still have to catch a bus or walk to Allianz stadium.
Manly fans don’t even have the luxury of a rail line so their best bet is bus or car.
Canterbury and Souths are two clubs that have taken the financial gain of playing away from their traditional homes. I’m sure if both clubs could afford to, they would move back to Belmore and Redfern respectively.
The passionate fans will travel any distance to support their team but those fringe supporters, the fans who go to one or two games a year will ditch watching a game live for watching it on the big screen at a pub.
The argument on the other side is that the suburban grounds lack the facilities that are needed to host NRL games. This is true but fans and players would much rather be at a near-capacity suburban ground then a less-than-half-empty stadium.
The solution is simple.
The ARLC must invest in the suburban grounds and not merge home grounds.
Can you imagine Tottenham Hotspur sharing a home ground with Arsenal and West Ham United. How about Chelsea, Fulham and QPR sharing Wembley?
It would not happen and the fans would never let it happen.
Sydney fans share the same tribalism as London.
If you live in Dee Why it is most likely you support Manly. If you live in Gloucester Park you support Chelsea. If you live in Petersham you probably support the Tigers.
You don’t have to live local to support a team, but home districts are still significant.
Ninety percent of club memberships come from the local area so it is important for clubs to keep some identity.
The big stadiums should only be used for big events such as State of Origin, test matches and the finals, the same way Wembley is used in the UK.
This would make a game at ANZ Stadium a special occasion for fans and players and would become a great tradition just like home games.
More great sports opinion on Sydney’s crowd and stadium woes:
Solving NRL’s Sydney stadium dilemmas
A very simple solution to NRL attendance issues
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May 12th 2012 @ 5:59am
steve b said | May 12th 2012 @ 5:59am | Report comment
You sre spot on Paul they will loose the fans that only go to the home games ,, as i did when my chidren were little the home games were it because it was easier on everybody.. Leave the suburban ground the way it is and give some of this money their getting from t.v. rights to help them upgrade .. It will be a huge step backwards if they shut em down …
May 12th 2012 @ 7:42am
Rabbitz said | May 12th 2012 @ 7:42am | Report comment
Paul,
You summed it up here:
“The reason behind this idea is that the State Government would prefer not to fund redevelopments to suburban grounds. “.
Why should the State Government be expected to fund these various local, single occupier, sporting facilities for the benefit of commercial operators?
Think about this – I need a new workshop for my business, the State Government laughed at me when I suggested they pay for the renovations.
A closer analogy would be our local bowling club (a for profit sporting entity) needs new greens and buildings (sporting facilities). If the NRL clubs can benefit from State Government largesse why can’t my bowlo?
The NRL is a business, nothing more. More people use Coles and Woolworths than go to league games. Shouldn’t the government be paying to maintain the stores?
If the NRL clubs can not maintain their facilities based on their income then they are simply not viable and centralised facilities, funded solely by the clubs, may in fact be the only sustainable solution.
It is not the taxpayers role to prop up failing business models.
May 12th 2012 @ 8:12am
peeeko said | May 12th 2012 @ 8:12am | Report comment
i think you will find that most sporting arenas receive some type of government funding. it definately happens in the NFL
May 12th 2012 @ 9:06am
Matt F said | May 12th 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Most NFL teams are in one-team towns (though some have 2 teams) so the government only has to fund one or two stadiums. That’s very different to NRL clubs asking the government to help maintain 5-6 of them.
There’s also the issue that the NFL sides already, generally, play out of the best and biggest stadium in their region. The NRL clubs are asking the government to upgrade the suburban grounds when there are perfectly adequate major stadiums already available.
May 12th 2012 @ 10:36am
Whites said | May 12th 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Plus every city in the US with an NFL has the Sword of Democles hanging over. The threat of their team moving to LA. No mayor wants to be seen as the person who lost their cities NFL team.
May 12th 2012 @ 12:43pm
Rabbitz said | May 12th 2012 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
Yes and look at the state of the US economy. Wasting taxpayer funds is the national pastime in the US, so why should we follow that example and waste our tax monies on corporate largesse?
May 12th 2012 @ 10:11am
The High Shot said | May 12th 2012 @ 10:11am | Report comment
Absolutely correct.
May 12th 2012 @ 11:13am
Ian Whitchurch said | May 12th 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
The issue with this plan is that if Penrith or Cronulla fans wont go to a centrally located ground, they certainly wont go to the away game at Penrith or Cronulla.
Therefore, Penrith playing Cronulla at either ground will at best get a marginal, ten- or fifteen-thousand strong crowd.
May 12th 2012 @ 5:16pm
Football United said | May 12th 2012 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
Who cares? Teams shouldnt be catering for away supporters needs. They have 12 odd home games that they can have played near them
May 12th 2012 @ 12:47pm
Crosscoder said | May 12th 2012 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
Which gets back to the distance factor ,road transport.Penrith ,Cronulla and Manly are just too far away for a night game at a centralised venue and ditto daytime.
.
In the sharks v Dragons,the ground was packedf 20,000 plus,and more than 1,000 could not get in.
I defy anyone to suggest those teams would get 20,000 at ANZ ,or even the SFS.
It is all very well for Shane Richardson to talk about centralisation,but on a monday night they got only 13,000 plus at ANZ,the overwhelming majority Rabbitoh supporters.
Make the ANZ stadium a true rectangular field ,with a roof ,put a roof on the SFS for the three codes,and reimburse the AFL for their ANZ contribution,which has meant the current layout is a mish mash and non specatator friendly forr the rectangular codes..
The Dogs, Tigers and Souths could centralise games at ANZ,and the Roosters,Souths,Tigers at the SFS.
Local grounds should be improvde to bring them into the 21st century.
Sydney is a non planned megatropolis ,whose traffic system worsens by the year,spread every which way.Local councils tend to be inept,governments have no money so they say,so it becomes a catch twenty two situation.
May 12th 2012 @ 12:56pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 12th 2012 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
Crosscoder,
The AFL didnt put money into ANZ, but the owners of ANZ like the money they get when AFL and cricket sides play there.
The other question to answer is where do fans that go to games come from – if Cronulla supporters come from all around Sydney these days, then maybe Shark Park isnt the best place to play.
May 12th 2012 @ 1:28pm
Crosscoder said | May 12th 2012 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Ian Then who put the money in to cover the transfiguration via seating from a rectangular to an oval configuration.
Of course the ANZ owners like the money.The owners may in fact get more money viz a viz crowds, with a rectangular config and a roof.
Following the for as long as I care to remember,the bulk of their fans are Shire locals,and I further suggest there are many Saints fans who live in the Shire,I suggest very few would be out of towners..When you get 9,000 on a wet miserable monday night, that is a decent base.The shire has one of the biggest junior rl bases in Sydney.
Attend Shark Park packed and tell me where is the best place to play.Last year 19,000 against Souths,16,000 plus against the Tigers. I suggest the crowd tomorrow will be more than reasonable against the Storm who bring very few.
May 12th 2012 @ 2:57pm
Australian Rules said | May 12th 2012 @ 2:57pm | Report comment
CC, I’m not trying to be snide, but this is the mentality that needs to change in the NRL:
“When you get 9,000 on a wet miserable monday night, that is a decent base.”
In Australia’s biggest city of 4.5M, and a standalone Monday night game, 9k is anything but decent.
May 12th 2012 @ 8:14pm
Crosscoder said | May 12th 2012 @ 8:14pm | Report comment
When you get 9,000 on a wet miserable monday night with an out of town team,and the local team were playing like busteds and the seating under cover runs into about 3,000,and you have a hill and seating not under cover.that is still a reasonable effort.Monday night kids are at home.
Then AR it behoves me to say the 8,600 in Canberra (supposedly with many AFL supporters),on a fine saturday afternoon,with the heavily promoted battle of the babies,is let us say underwhelming,and that is not being snide.
When 9,000 local diehards are prepared to get drenched on a freezing monday night,it has nothing to do with the city having 4.5m or 5m for that matter.Cronulla is averaging close to 15,000 to date.
You have no idea of rugby league ,it has been district centric,and whilst we have the expanse of Sydney and stadiums like ANZ the local attitude will hold sway.Your code and rl are chalk and cheese when it comes to attendance at a centralised stadium.
.And BTW if the State govt had forked out $10m to the Sharks they would have more under cover,but they won’t. That is why my friend the club is pinning their future and stadium on the development application current before the Dept of Planning.So I don’t know what mentality you are talking about.Some clubs are not sitting on their hands.
May 13th 2012 @ 3:11pm
Australian Rules said | May 13th 2012 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
8,600 is definitely a poor crowd, no question.
But regardless of promotions, these are 2 teams with supporter bases less than 14 months old…playing away from both their homes, in a town where there is no AFL team.
Your response, again, is evidence of the problematic mindset in the NRL:
That a 10,000 crowd (for 2 established teams) could ever be deemed “decent”.
May 13th 2012 @ 5:48pm
NF said | May 13th 2012 @ 5:48pm | Report comment
‘Your response, again, is evidence of the problematic mindset in the NRL:’ Well Australian Rules you seem to think to be a know it all about RL by all means tell me how will go around NRL attendance issues please entertain me with your ideas. It seems AFL fans such as Ian Whitchurch & yourself think they know more about RL than the actual supporters.
May 13th 2012 @ 8:26pm
Crosscoder said | May 13th 2012 @ 8:26pm | Report comment
AR The ACT and Riverina according to you guys are hotbeds of AFL.Apparently whether it is true or not giveaways, were used.Nothing wrong with that BTW.
What are you on about playing away from home ,the ACT is part of GWS club,most of the membership emanates from there.Some of your people have been bragging about the fact.
Do you understand and it appears by some of your comments historically you don’t ,the Sharks played an out of town team,who brought no one.
The bleeding ACT govt is paying you mob $500,000 of taxpayers” money per game to play there as part of the GWS deal.It is as much part of GWS as West Sydney.If it is not tell the good people of the ACT,they are person non grata.
BTW one of the AFL commentators at the GWS match,queried Folau”Surely this beats playing for Australia”.I have read about ,listened to some delusional comments over the years ,but that would leave Roy Masters,Caro Wilson et al his wake.
.
Oh and the AFL dont ‘play on a monday night,experience that for a year and judge.
It doesn’t matter what the size of Sydney is,my point and it is really hard to emphasise it,is that clubs like Cronulla are more localised than the older established clubs like Souths and Saint.The mindset is following your local club locally.that applies to Manly and Penrith.
I just love it when AFL people come on board,and tell clubs like Cronulla the situation,when it appears they have little idea.
The club today had 14,600 in attendance on Mother’s Day.I didn’t attend for that reason.The Storm brought a handfull.And you are trying to lecture Cronulla on how to run the show,just because the southerners have a better geographical and transport infrastructure.You honestly believe they would get more at ANZ.,I have more chance of playing for the Swans.
The Waratahs representing the whole state of 7 million got 17,000 odd ,on saturday.And guess what the stadium was centralsied in Sydney ,with a big capacity.
You have a shot at the mindset of NRL clus with localised support,without having an inkling on what goes on there.it’s all very well to sit back on a keyboard and suggest clubs do this and that,but it is the fans of the club,who in the end decide and are the backbone.
May 14th 2012 @ 9:38am
Australian Rules said | May 14th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Waratahs v Bulls was the only sports event in Sydney on Friday night.
17,000 in rugby heartand, in a state of 7 million, is very poor.
A beautiful sunny Sunday, League heartland, playing the best team in the comp…
Mothers Day or not, 14,600 is also a poor crowd.
You sound like you genuinely support your club, which is good. But the prevailing attitude of League (sports) fans in Sydney seems to be that “supporting” your club means watching them on tv.
You’ll never convince me that 10-14k in Sydney is a “good” crowd.
May 14th 2012 @ 1:27pm
Crosscoder said | May 14th 2012 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Never suggested 10-14,000 was a good crowd.But on a Mothers Day in the Shire getting close to 15,000,with Melbourne bringing their relos,the club was more than happy,bearing in mind 13,000 needed for break even.So a profitable day with SFA freebies.
.’
And it still doesn’t sink in with the tribal nature of the code in Sydney.IOW more people are devoted to watching their clubs locally,than away,and less people are prepared to watch away regardless if it is their club or not.
Understand a little of the Sydney traffic ,roads and geography and poor public transport to even get an idea.
And with resect to people staying at home viewing, that reflects in the TV ratings,that reflects in the TV ratings for the various clubs and that will reflect in the next big TV deal,which you are so concerned, may end up much higher than you predicted.
BTW .AR you did not comment on the AFL commentator’s question to Folau.
May 14th 2012 @ 2:59pm
Australian Rules said | May 14th 2012 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
Not sure what you mean by:
“And it still doesn’t sink in with the tribal nature of the code in Sydney.IOW more people are devoted to watching their clubs locally,than away”…
“Tribal”…? “Devoted to watching their clubs”..?
The whole point of this debate is about the lack of “triblism” from Sydney people and their teams. Clearly, they’re anything but “devoted”…especially if they refuse to leave their own nest.
As for the Folau comment, why on earth would I bother responding to what some nuffy boundary rider said to a player? It was a ridiculous question…and you’re deflecting.
What’s that got to do with Sydney having dismal crowds?
May 14th 2012 @ 6:14pm
JVGO said | May 14th 2012 @ 6:14pm | Report comment
AR dismal isn’t an adjective usually associated with Sydney. But in order to satisfy your morbid obsession with the Harbour City and all it represents AR you should perhaps understand that people choose to live in the Cronulla, Manly and Penrith Blue Mountains districts, despite their relative isolation, because they are surrounded by Beaches, waterways, National parks and abundant beautiful bushland. The fact is that on the weekend, after perhaps commuting for work all week, they are loathe to leave these beautiful districts and instead choose to enjoy the environs.
Remember AR that Sydney enjoys the best summer lifestyle in the world while Melbourne swelters and longs for the return of the footy season. Even last week AR the temperature in Sydney was 25 degrees and the water was still almost 20 degrees and swimmable
I guess this is a little mysterious to someone accustomed to the dismal environs and suburbs of Melbourne which people seem ever eager to escape to the refuge of a big concrete bowl whenever a football team they are somehow vaguely associated decides to perform there.
.Nevertheless in terms of comparative crowds if Cronulla as a battler club without a major sponsor and continually under threat of being booted out of the comp can manage crowds between15-21,000 which you call dismal, how exactly would you describe the Swans crowds who as premiership frontrunners and according to the AFL a purported 1.2 million fans average 20- 23,000 crowds.
Maybe the bar is just higher in Sydney AR and if our sporting crowds in Sydney can be described by Victorians as dismal pretty much everything else to do with Melbourne can easily be described as dismal by a Sydneysider. In the end there is a balance that makes sense there somewhere, but only of course if you recognise that there may be more to life than AFL footy..
May 14th 2012 @ 11:31pm
Australian Rules said | May 14th 2012 @ 11:31pm | Report comment
I don’t live in Melbourne, so I’m not sure what ur on about.
This is a sports site. You actually could have had some credibility by saying, “yep, the crowds in Sydney, for such a big city, one that claims to be the home of rugby, league & soccer in Australia, are pretty poor. Sometimes we can’t even sell all our Origin tickets.”
Instead, you embarrassingly waffle on about the other joys of Sydney, as though it’s the only place in Australia with a beach or a boat. That whole passage was about as enlightening as your favourite trick of listing all the best sportsmen to emerge from your state…I was waiting for the list to appear…
Ever been to Qld? WA? SA? NT? Tas? You froth on as though Sydney’s the only place you can enjoy the outdoor life in Australia.
Thanks for your latest offering. Comedy as always!
Btw…the Swans averaged 27k in 2011, not 20-23k.
May 15th 2012 @ 10:00am
Crosscoder said | May 15th 2012 @ 10:00am | Report comment
Thought it was pretty clear AR.Due to the wide geographic spread of sydney and places like the Shire and Manly and Penrith,being kms away from the city centre and each other,the tribal and therefore local following has become ingrained.Ie they watch in numbers their team locally.
I know a stack of Sharks fans who work on that basis.
Ergo I am trying to spell out the tribalism.I defy you to suggest I am less committed financially or emotionally to my club,attend local games( not away) than any Collingwood supporter.Passion can be measured many ways,away games is not the only test.
I as a rl fan, who has my loyalty questioned by a follower of another code,who has the audacity to suggest the fans mindset is so and so,and therefore is capable of change.The arrogance is atypical of some of the news hounds we have around and the likes of AD and Sheedy
And QED that is the reason I brought in the commentator’s question to Folau again this arrogance which rears its ugly head..After all as you continue to say it is a sport site..It’s called an aside,and we get it all the time.
If a Gould had done something similar you guys would have jumped on him loudly here.Should a rl journo or commentato do likewise, they are pilloried ,if an AFL commentator the cry goes up they are nuffies ignore them.Comedy at its very best.
..The thread is about suburban grounds,we give the facts as rl supporters and AFL supporters come here(one in particular) telling rl fans the real situation.As a result rl fans then are not going to sit back.
You naturally don’t know me from a bar of soap,nor my friends ,relos, and other fans who follow the Sharks.I can only speak from experience living here for decades.
Just a I would never try to gauge the attitudes of any AFL club on an AFL thread .In fact I am not that obsessive to spend time there ,if at all.
.However it doesnt take a demographer to know,Melbourne is more centralised than Sydney,has a far better transport and parking set up,has not had a SL war and has always had a tradition of big crowds and it is not really made for TV..
NB Sydney crowds for all codes will never approach AFL crowds in the Southern and Western states,Sydney outlying clubs fans will not congregate to a centralised venue,that is the picture plain and simple.Your code doesn’t have suburban grounds except one
And you go on about mindsets as though we are incapable of rational thought.Beggars belief..
I repeat and that is why the code will secure a big Tv deal,the fact it is the best adapted to that medium..’
May 16th 2012 @ 3:50am
JVGO said | May 16th 2012 @ 3:50am | Report comment
AR, so the Swans averaged 27,000 last year and this year have had three games between 20-23,000 before they had even lost a game? That looks like about a 20% decrease to me. Maybe the rest of those 1.2 million Sydney fans have found better things to do with their time. I hope theur season doesn’t go too pear shaped or sometime this season the humble hapless Sharks might outdraw the AFL’s Sydney flagship, maybe even in the finals. How dismal would that be?
May 16th 2012 @ 8:46am
Australian Rules said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
As you would well know, half the Swans’ stadium is missing due to the SCG redevelopment…but 23k isn’t a disaster.
That said, given the Sharks have averaged 10k, 12k and, so far this year, 15k…it would be dismal indeed if they outdrew the Swans by teh end of this year.
May 16th 2012 @ 1:27pm
JVGO said | May 16th 2012 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
AR, Sharks have pulled one crowd over 20,000 this year which was 500 less than the Swans pulled that week so it is conceivable that they will outdraw the Swans sometime this year. I don’t believe half the SCG is missing, I think the capacity is still 35,000+.
Also I don’t see what the difference is AR between AFL fans obnoxiously pointing out the crowds that the code pulls on a RL thread and a NSWmen indicating how vastly superior we are in providing the basis of Australia’s international sporting teams. It’s merely tit for tat as far as I can see.
Melbourne people are good at turning up to AFL games, NSW people are good at providing the overwhelming basis of our international reputation. As an AFL fan I can tell you are extremely proud of these facts.
May 12th 2012 @ 11:47pm
Poor Boy Blues said | May 12th 2012 @ 11:47pm | Report comment
thankyou for saying. all these guys is offer excuses. and it will say that 2 more times.
These people need to understand. Its not good enough. And neither is Shark Park, nor will it ever be. No offence.
___
BY the way…ok. ready, mate
HOW. THE. HELL. do you know what stadium centralization would be like in sydney? Its never been done. Its just an excuse from you!
Centralisation, this is the kind of stuff you need to stick to and build on, for years probably; build it up, gradually, and get people into the habit.
I can tell you right now, if you start using the systems in place and the better stadia – and who gives a flying rats back side how many extra minutes than normal you have to travel ,….you live in sydney, remember….- if you start changing your little victim attitudes, you may…just may….make something of your attendances in the next 10 years.
Quit with the excuses. I have some solutions further down. Its not all bad news.
May 12th 2012 @ 1:31pm
Australian Rules said | May 12th 2012 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
Paul, I agree with your contention but not for the same reasons:
“Can you imagine Tottenham Hotspur sharing a home ground with Arsenal and West Ham United. How about Chelsea, Fulham and QPR sharing Wembley?
It would not happen and the fans would never let it happen. Sydney fans share the same tribalism as London.”
No Paul. The reason this whole idea is on the table is because NRL fans are NOT tribal…they are not turning up to their home grounds and so clubs are talking about rationalising and sharing larger venues.
The reason that rationalising wouldn’t work is that the issue would be exacerbated because fans are unwilling to travel outside their own neighbourhoods.
May 12th 2012 @ 11:54pm
Poor Boy Blues said | May 12th 2012 @ 11:54pm | Report comment
Yes. They are not tribal. They are in fact Apathetic
___
And its due to the suburban grounds.
____
Also, the people who adore these grounds are a small minority.
Don’t be like the jews.
Open up your religion to the rest of the world already…move to stadia that people ACTUALLY WANT TO GO TO.
May 15th 2012 @ 3:16am
peeeko said | May 15th 2012 @ 3:16am | Report comment
you seem to know an awful lot about rugby league supporters. RL crowds at most sydney games are fine. stop comparing them to AFL games which have great numbers on a global scale. SHark Park is a great ground and playing a side with zero supporters in sydney makes for a decent crowd of 16k
May 12th 2012 @ 2:00pm
Crosscoder said | May 12th 2012 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
Ian, now I found the “culprit ” our previous benevolent broke State Govt put in $8m toward the $68m cost of reconfiguring,
A quote from people plan “However the government did contribute $8m toward the $68m cost of reconfiguring the stadium for use by the AFL (SMH 16/3/2001).Stadium Australia’s major creditor then agreed to extend its $125m loan to avoid liquidation, when the Sydney’s AFL team agreed to play their three best games at the stadium over the next 7 years,plus pre season and home final matches (AFR 7/9/2001).
So we get money for Blacktown,Skoda,the SCG and ANZ from state govts good on them , but they are/were broke when it came to the other major sporting codes.
May 12th 2012 @ 5:38pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 12th 2012 @ 5:38pm | Report comment
Crosscoder,
So, the AFL didnt put in money, but they did say that if other people showed up with the $68m, then they’d play 3 games a year there for 7 years, and otherwise they were staying at the SCG.
Bluntly, from the point of view of winning a flag, the Swans would have been better off saying ‘stuff you, we have a home crowd advantage at the SCG’.
Cronulla Sharks’ football club total turnover is about $11m a year, isnt it ?
May 12th 2012 @ 8:00pm
Crosscoder said | May 12th 2012 @ 8:00pm | Report comment
Ian
I am a reasonable enough person to accept monies are apid by state govts to sporting bodies.What I find unreasonable are the same governments crying poor ,when other codes long established have been here are denied.They still paid monies toward the ANZ..
The Swans indeed could have said “stuff you”however the $86m govt monies going to improve the SCG,makes it all worthwhile,one would have thought.
It is in fact already more than last year for the Sharks,More sponsorship money and bigger crowds have assisted in this matter .The bigger crowds attributed to the fact the game is played locally,in their own backyard, so to speak..
So I don’t see your point in the last para.
Why do you think the club is going to all the trouble of working on a development? .Put simply income and ground improvements.
Crowds(Sharks) will not attend in any numbers to NRL games at the ANZ ,less so at the SFS,except semis etc.That is the reality,I wish it were otherwise,but blame the Sydney spread and the cavenous ANZ stadium.
May 12th 2012 @ 11:58pm
Poor Boy Blues said | May 12th 2012 @ 11:58pm | Report comment
For their sake, being one of the outlying clubs stuck in a kind of isolation, I hope their development goes through.
I do appreciate the cronulla district, and above the heavy hitting posts, I wish them the best so they can stay at their home ground.
I do not think Manly will be so lucky, I think delmerge should build a new stadium. God, a guy like that, should be onto this. If he thinks Manly are so great, they should get a stadium up and running.
You can have lots of privately funded suburb stadia…I just don’t think you’ll get it from the govt.
__
And once again, we see the shortcomings on being on the outside. I am not sure its even possible. Of course they must of thought of that. North shore stadium too, not really worth it. SFS is pretty close,
sydney needs transport.
May 12th 2012 @ 4:28pm
Bearfax said | May 12th 2012 @ 4:28pm | Report comment
As I mentioned on another forum, spectaors have no obligation to go to watch a Rugby league game. They go because they enjoy the experience. If they didnt enjoy the experience they would do something else they enjoy. The obligation in the netertainment industry, and Rugby League is part of that, rests entirely on those producing the product to encourage patronage. And to do that in this day ad age is becoming more an more difficult as more and more enterainment options beome available. And there is just so much ‘entertainment money’ people have or are prepared to spend on entertainment. It is therefore important that these industries are always looking at ways to hold onto their patronage and even increase it. That’s surely basic economics.
But the administration of this League seems to think in some way we owe them and should be prepared to make sacrifices to see the game because they cant seem to effectively utilise their monies effectively in a way to address the above principle. They honestlyseem to think it just and beneficial by taking away from people their easily accessible entertainment and making them congregate in larger entertainment centres, thereby increasing the overall costs (increased travekl), convenience and time spent just getting to see their enterainment. Such is their folly and arrogance that they believe patronage will increaae and financial benefits improve.
I enjoy going to see a film at the local theatre now and then. Its cheap, easily accessible and convenient. I am quite willing to pay out my money to see a film that way if the quality of the film justifies the choice I am making. Move all the theatres to huge centres in the Sydney Met area or two large locations and I wont go, even though the theatres are plush, have other entertainments, etc. The theartes woke up to this when they started closing suburban theatres and opended the huge city theartes. Overall patronage of theatres diminshed because it was no longer worth the entertainment dollars of lengthy travel, extra costs etc. Suddenly the city theatres are closing down and the largers,plusher suburban theatres are returning.
League has to learn the same lesson. Centralise and yes you will get your big crowds, but you will dramatcally lose signnificantly overal patronage because, people who dont find those stadiums convenient to attend, through distance, cost, time etc, will just find something else to use their ‘entertainment dollar’ on.
May 13th 2012 @ 12:02am
Poor Boy Blues said | May 13th 2012 @ 12:02am | Report comment
Bearfax
sport is a different entertainment. You cannot obsess about a movie and see a different version of it 7 times a week.
I understand you perfectly clear. You are fed up with the stadium situation – and you personally, have probably given up, or are about to. Its probably hard for you.
People like you need not take any more. You should rest, stay at home. We need you watching and loving league. Don’t lose it over this stadium issue because some convicts couldn’t plan jack in a landscape where at the time it was probably just grass, hills, and trees.
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Something needs to be done, but there is only so many willing to do something. We can sub you to the bench for a while, shall we.
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Also, you said [going to a movie: ] “Its cheap, easily accessible and convenient.”
And thats how getting to a game should be. —- And until they can get that right, in modern sports stadia (which are rectangular and hooked up to a transport system ] no one blames you for feeling like you do.
I am with you, dude, its an absolute bloody disgrace.
May 12th 2012 @ 8:24pm
Crosscoder said | May 12th 2012 @ 8:24pm | Report comment
Bearfax agree with your last para.
You have to support and far outer suburb team to appreciate the fact.No better indication than teh number of families who attend local Sharks games on a sunday afternoon.
Movies theatre and shopping centres decentralised because people like Westfield etc realised people will not travel distances to buy product,but will do s locally.
Sydney traffic is chaotic and getting worse.
May 12th 2012 @ 11:08pm
Poor Boy Blues said | May 12th 2012 @ 11:08pm | Report comment
If “I” build it. You will go.
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=westfalenstadion&hl=en&biw=1097&bih=581&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=e2CuT_aSLNCTiQf-noXZCA&sqi=2&ved=0CHkQsAQ
Westfalen stadium
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Lets be real. I played A-train as a kid. Its only been up from there.
45 mins. Come on guys, stop sooking it. Go to games. ____________
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But once again, I like the story. I dont think you should ditch suburban grounds just yet, only eventually. I have stated my views elsewhere, especially to bearfax.
And the measures I would use to fix it.
May 12th 2012 @ 11:24pm
Poor Boy Blues said | May 12th 2012 @ 11:24pm | Report comment
Ok, glib message above. But have you looked into Arsenals stadium? Or Old Trafford? Or Stamford bridge (chelsea)?
Allow me to take you on a journey of your futility.
Please, let me continue. I am NOT against you. I will goto matches at said Sydney stadia. I am just in dis-belief.
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I just think that people are over reacting here.
Have you LOOOOOKED at Brookvale recently? Its a pile of puss..
Have you seen Shark Park? Heck, you may as well fill it with water. It’d be better….. its a rubbish tip-in-waiting. Thats right – basically the REVERSE of how they’d do things if they were building a stadium.
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I don’t understand why people are holding on to this – correction : SOME PEOPLE – so much. Please, let me continue. I am NOT against you. I am just in dis-belief.
THERE. IS. NO. MONEY…for a bunch of suburban grounds.
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Look, Arsenal built and operate the stadium, they own it. Same with Old Trafford and Man UTD. They paid for the lot…all hundreds of millions of it.
Stamford Bridge is a freehold, its basically under lease to chelsea, but I have no doubt chelsea are involved closely with the non profit association who run it.
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So, tell me, guys, please……where are you going to find the money to upgrade all the sydney suburban grounds every 10-12 years into modern, world class stadiums?
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This is why they proposed 2 stadia. I feel parra could become a westfallen clone (or build a new one somewhere) at least.
I said to people 4 stadia…..but the problem is Manly, Penrith, and Cronulla are outlying – and we do NOT KNOW IF THE sharks will be around much longer – but hopefully they will.
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Teams come, teams go. Why would the govt decide to upgrade every stadia – even doing a cheap, half arsed job like they are now….instead of focussing their efforts on 1 or 2?
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Please, see reason. Fix the transport network, and my solutions around that do not involve abandoning suburbs, it involves sensible planning, fixed schedule for derbies AT LEAST, gathering of fans for buses, trains, ect, dedicated services, and FAN GETTING. A. GRIP!….AND some extra effort from people.
But at the end of the day, you gotta understand, you will not get every demographic to a suburban stadium…..
May 12th 2012 @ 11:39pm
Poor Boy Blues said | May 12th 2012 @ 11:39pm | Report comment
Ran outta time. Thats all you can do. Its time. Distance. Money. Will.
You got to take a close look at the city, a study, and find out which ways to break up the city and teams. Look at it, study it. Study the network and flow of traffic and population centers.
Then work out which stadia to use and/or where to place them/focus on which to uprade.
It would seem Parramatta and the SFS would be immediate two.
I reckon most of you guys are just young blokes with a grungy, angst-chip on your shoulders, thinking “oh, the world is hard, wish it could be made easier!”
How much easier, I ask!? All you have to do at the moment is travel an hour or so every couple of weeks for the majority of you.
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I do not think there is a solution to this problem – I think the govt understands that its a situation that can only be streamlined, not solved.
But if people worked together in sydney a bit more, clubs and fans, you could organize stuff to make it so it was the easiest possible thing (with the junk of a system you have) to get to a match.
Sometimes, its blatantly apparent to the majority of the country that [that management I just mentioned] is IN. !FACT! moving a stated game to the SFS.
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In my mind, and it may be a pipe dream, my plan involves facilitating both opposing sides of spectrum. Accept what you have, adopt policy and organizational changes, and build/upgrade transport and stadia as seen fit, to benefit the majority of people in the city – when they are all treated equally….
I.e By equal – I do not mean “oh, cronulla have the hardest time, so we must fix them up and dump a stadium there”
No, I mean fair, and best use for the majority of people. No self-serve ice creams anymore.
May 15th 2012 @ 3:21am
peeeko said | May 15th 2012 @ 3:21am | Report comment
that is an inaccurate description of SHark Park. it has good ammentities for games and is perfectly sufficient