The war that’s not a war
Roar Rookie By Chris A, 16 May 2012 Chris A is a Roar Rookie
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There is no such thing as a football code war.
On all sides of the media we hear pundits – who are apparently different to normal people – spouting lines about the “Barassi line” and poaching players.
Israel Folau and Karmichael Hunt have become household names and part of marketing campaigns for the AFL juggernaut’s entrance to new regions.
I see groups of media playing out the implied western front of sport that actually is western Sydney, adding a range of sound bites from angry coaches or managers.
Yet I don’t see a war and I’ll give you a quick insight about it.
Almost every sports fan I speak with has more than one code that they enjoy and follow.
I play football (the soccer variety) and at every training the conversation starts with how a teammate’s AFL club went on the weekend.
If I log onto twitter on a Sunday afternoon my feed from other A-League fans will be filled with comments on the day’s AFL or NRL games.
My friendship group’s last A-League grand final barbeque was to be held by a devout Geelong Cats fan, right up until his cable TV was removed only days before.
What this indicates is that the fans of sport love a good game, especially the ones they understand well.
This kind of fan is not a rarity, especially among those I know and have met. And for those who don’t enjoy a league or union match, I’ve never really felt threatened by the appearance of the Storm and Rebels.
An actual fan enjoys sport for the merits of it, without yelling obscenities at other fans.
In fact most comments that are quoted by media from online forums border on verbal assault; anyone yelling that would be banned from most Australian venues.
These games are not being voted off the island like some form of bad reality TV show or into office like a democracy, but the most people have to do is choose if there is a time clash between two code’s games.
And no fan wants to decide which team they’d rather watch if they could go to both.
I know the media likes a controversy more than anyone else, but why do we put up the with the promotion of a dislike or hate between the groups, especially when it doesn’t actually exist?
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The Crowd Says (128) | Page 1 of Comments
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- AFL, Code wars, football, NRL, Rugby League, Rugby Union
May 16th 2012 @ 6:16am
ManInBlack said | May 16th 2012 @ 6:16am | Report comment
While I in part agree with you and would like to agree fully, my thoughts are:
What I find ironic is when participation numbers are bandied about as though they are pure.
What I mean by that is – even registrations might be double dipping within the sport (in an Aust Football sense there’s a possibility for a child to be registered both in Auskick and also playing U9s club footy, likewise in cricket a child might be enrolled in both MiloIn2Cricket and the U10s) and lack of exclusivity (i.e. play footy – whatever brand – on the weekend, perhaps soccer on Saturday and footy on Sunday, and basketball on Wednesday).
The carve up of these numbers appears important to Governments for funding etc. That appears to be where the true war is.
And that’s where the FIFA WC bid was the high level embodiement of code war. Whereas the recent court battle by NRL and AFL saw codes work together against a common non-sport enemy – the WC bid saw code vs code at the top level and the ‘war’ spilled over well and truly into the public domain. And – perhaps, compelled (provided enough ammunition of emotional buy-in for) SOME people to make a choice???
May 16th 2012 @ 10:28am
Bondy said | May 16th 2012 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Hosting a truly global sporting event in this country, the like never before seen where people from all over the globe could congregate in one area for a month to watch sport,and you believe that to be evil .
May 16th 2012 @ 12:18pm
Fussballs AFL tracking spreadsheet said | May 16th 2012 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
Yes Bondy, he clearly said it was evil. WTF?
May 16th 2012 @ 3:00pm
Australian Rules said | May 16th 2012 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
The difference in the WC Bid (in terms of pointing to that as an example of a “war”) was that for the WC to be held in Australia, the AFL would have to abandon their season and handover their stadiums. Does anyone really think that was reasonable?
May 16th 2012 @ 9:25pm
Bludger said | May 16th 2012 @ 9:25pm | Report comment
We should have just lied like the Qataris did, said we would then, just stage it in January or February.
Really, if FIFA and soccer wants to spread the game the soccer leagues around the world should take a powder when an Aussie world cup would take place. 4 or 6 weeks would not kill them.
So much ‘for the good of the game’.
More like, ‘for the good of the coin.’
Soccer betrayed Australia. It is like taking back a cheating woman after she has been with half your mates behind your back!
May 16th 2012 @ 9:35pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 16th 2012 @ 9:35pm | Report comment
“if FIFA and soccer wants to spread the game” …
Yeah, you’re right, FIFA really needs to make more people aware of the Beautiful Game.
Let’s disrupt the biggest & most watched football leagues in the world so that, perhaps, 10 million ignorant Aussies can continue to watch their insignificant Australian sporting leagues.
May 16th 2012 @ 10:03pm
c said | May 16th 2012 @ 10:03pm | Report comment
l m f a o
May 17th 2012 @ 12:08am
peeeko said | May 17th 2012 @ 12:08am | Report comment
they are not insignificant to the people that watch them
May 17th 2012 @ 8:11am
Australian Rules said | May 17th 2012 @ 8:11am | Report comment
“Let’s disrupt the biggest & most watched football leagues in the world so that, perhaps, 10 million ignorant Aussies can continue to watch their insignificant Australian sporting leagues.”
Is that a serious comment?
10million is half the population of this country and you call them “ignorant Aussies”.
Whenever anyone says anything mildly critical of soccer on this site you react with hypersensitive outrage…and yet you pompously dismiss half the population as “ignorant Aussies”, because soccer is not their first choice of sport in Australia.
What utter hypocrisy.
May 16th 2012 @ 11:45pm
ItsCalled AussieRules said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:45pm | Report comment
Abandon their AFL season.
Change Melbourne life forever.
What a load of garbage – all it needed was a re-scheduling of the fixtures so that the Melbourne teams played their away games while the WC games were on in Melbourne and then their home games when it was over, or even play a few games at regional centres and the AFL was going to get handsomely compensated.
There was no cooperation from the AFL and no effort for compromise.
They saw the FIFA WC as a threat and did all they could to oppose it.
May 16th 2012 @ 12:24pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
The coming together of some six or seven sports to fight the Optus decision represents a high water mark in the sense of commonality, solidarity and friendship to be found amongst all the major sports in Australia.
It’s notable that the AFL put out the hand of friendship when the Rebles first came to town last year, noting the common heritage the two sports share in this city, going all the way back to the 1850s.
Let us not forget the many sacrifices the AFL has made over the years to allow major sporting events such as the Cricket World Cup, the Rugby World Cup, the Olympics and the soccer World Cup, which unfortunately, at the end of the day, was not able to garner sufficient support amongst the world’s power brokers.
May 16th 2012 @ 3:09pm
Realfootball said | May 16th 2012 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
The “efforts” the AFL made to “allow” the “soccer” world cup?????
I can only assume that this is sarcasm. To be anything else would deride your “guru” status, whatever that means apart from a epithet of self congratulation.
May 16th 2012 @ 3:17pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
Realfootball
In no way am I being sarcastic. People come to this question with differing perspectives. From the point of view of AFL fans, we see our governing body giving up its inalienable rights to the MCG for a minimum of 10 weeks in the middle of the AFL season. That’s a massive sacrifice, indeed, it’s a larger sacrifice than what any other tier of government or sport was making, and AFL had made that offer very, very early in the piece.
Non-Victorians coming to the same question usually came to it with no understanding of the long-term lease that the AFL held over the MCG, or even with the understanding that it is AFL football that pays for the 100,000 seater stadium.
I ask you then – who was making a bigger sacrifice to hold the World Cup? What was the FFA offering up?
May 16th 2012 @ 3:54pm
Punter said | May 16th 2012 @ 3:54pm | Report comment
Surely you jest!!!!!
May 16th 2012 @ 3:56pm
Nathan of Perth said | May 16th 2012 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
No, he Cattery
May 16th 2012 @ 4:03pm
Punter said | May 16th 2012 @ 4:03pm | Report comment
One & the same no????
May 16th 2012 @ 3:56pm
pete4 said | May 16th 2012 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
LOL the memories of Demetriou saying the AFL season will have to be cancelled, AFL clubs will go broke come flooding back…
May 16th 2012 @ 4:00pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
But the AFL kept its promise of giving up the MCG for 10 weeks. What did other sports contribute that came even close to that huge sacrifice? What did the FFA contribute?
May 16th 2012 @ 4:05pm
Punter said | May 16th 2012 @ 4:05pm | Report comment
The FFA were contributing by bringing the biggest sporting event to these shores. If the AFL were bringing the biggest sporting event to Sydney, I would accept them with open arms.
May 16th 2012 @ 5:46pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 5:46pm | Report comment
But they could only do it with the assistance of the AFL – and it was duly given. They weren’t able to do it by themselves, otherwise the AFL could have been left completely out of the picture. At the end of the day, the real problem is that the FFA had nothing to offer except the dream.
May 16th 2012 @ 6:11pm
Punter said | May 16th 2012 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
Many of man’s great achievements started with a dream. This was what the FFA offered a dream to hold the Greatest sporting event in our backyard. I repeat if the AFL offered this dream of bringing the best of best in the world’s most popular sport, I would accept them with open arms.
May 16th 2012 @ 6:19pm
Titus said | May 16th 2012 @ 6:19pm | Report comment
Wrong TC…….it would take a miracle to get it, everyone knew that, but we had the dream and instead of supporting it and saying we will deal with logistics later…..the AFL kicked up a stink and started a code war….truthbomb.
May 16th 2012 @ 6:34pm
UK Steve said | May 16th 2012 @ 6:34pm | Report comment
Punter and Titus – you are getting absolutely slaughtered in this debate by TC. He is being factual and you are going on about dreams and dealing with the logistics later.
May 16th 2012 @ 7:30pm
Titus said | May 16th 2012 @ 7:30pm | Report comment
Wrong Steve…we are getting to the root of it, the AFL didn’t support it because it is not in their interest to support a competitor…therefore codewars exist……..pick a side, therefore you are!
May 16th 2012 @ 7:34pm
UK Steve said | May 16th 2012 @ 7:34pm | Report comment
Well I wouldn’t say that they supported it, but they gave up the best stadium in the country (and the world), so I would say that is being mightily friendly of them. Although, I’m sure they didn’t shed any tears when the votes came in.
May 16th 2012 @ 8:07pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:07pm | Report comment
Titus
I have said many times – the AFL offered up the MCG in the very earliest days and stuck true to that promise. No other sport made such a sacrifice – none. To lose your primary stadium for 10 weeks in the middle of the season would result in a massive commercial loss to the AFL.
What other sport was giving that up?
May 16th 2012 @ 8:37pm
Titus said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:37pm | Report comment
TC—Rugby League and Union immediately supported the Cup,or at least refrained from any opposition, they were on board, this was good for all of us.
May 16th 2012 @ 8:48pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:48pm | Report comment
But what did other sports sacrifice for the good of the WC bid that could in any way be compared to losing the MCG for 10 weeks?
Non-AFL fans need to understand, the AFL owns the MCG during the footy season, under a long term lease that runs till 2037. It’s AFL money that pays for the MCG. The MCG exists as a 100,000 seater because the AFL chooses to play games there (and the Government and MCC Trust absolutely beg the AFL to remain there).
Anyone who thinks otherwise does not understand sport in Victoria.
May 16th 2012 @ 11:48pm
ItsCalled AussieRules said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:48pm | Report comment
Rubbish.
Demetriou and the AFL never made any commitment to give up the MCG or Etihad, not even for one game.
May 17th 2012 @ 7:13am
Bondy said | May 17th 2012 @ 7:13am | Report comment
The afl kept its promise ,it was never involved it never controlled the situation and was told what to do by the government,you cant negotiate something you have no control over and thats what you dont understand,the permission came from the governmment not aussie rules .
If you believe otherwise Cattery its up to you .
May 17th 2012 @ 8:01am
The Cattery said | May 17th 2012 @ 8:01am | Report comment
No Bondy – this is the crucial point that soccer fans have never come to grips with – the AFL controls the MCG 100% during the footy season – it has a long term lease on the MCG that runs till 2037 – that lease exists for that period because the MCG Trust needs the AFL’s commitment to play so many games there per annum to pay off the private debt – soccer fans have never understood that the Government doesn’t pay for the stadium – the AFL pays for it – if the Government had forced a break to the lease, the AFL could bring the MCG Trust and the MCG to its knees – this is the crucial point that non-AFL fans have never understood – the AFL controlled the MCG 100%. – and obviously it controlled Etihad 100% as well, which is why it never made it onto the bid book.
The bid needed the AFL’s commitment to release the MCG for 10 weeks, and the AFL had given its commitement very early in the piece – all the other problems emerged when the FFA made a belated play for Etihad, even though the original deal was that the AFL would keep Etihad.
May 17th 2012 @ 8:10am
mds1970 said | May 17th 2012 @ 8:10am | Report comment
@It’sCalledAussieRules:
“Demetriou and the AFL never made any commitment to give up the MCG or Etihad, not even for one game.”
In the case of Etihad, that is 100% correct. But for the MCG, that is factually incorrect.
Both the original handshake agreement, and the subsequent MOU, contained a commitment for the AFL to give up its contractual rights to the MCG for a maximum of 10 weeks.
May 17th 2012 @ 8:15am
The Cattery said | May 17th 2012 @ 8:15am | Report comment
mds is 100% correct, and that 10 week commitment from the AFL was the biggest sacrifice of any sport, including soccer – that being the case, how do people here conclude that the AFL didn’t support the world cup when it was making the biggest contribution?
May 16th 2012 @ 7:03pm
mds1970 said | May 16th 2012 @ 7:03pm | Report comment
Nothing like the mention of the FFA’s World Cup bid to get the flame war happening.
The history of it was innocent enough. When the idea of the FFA bidding for the World Cup was first thought of, a handshake deal was done with the AFL, where the AFL would retain Docklands and would hand over the MCG for no more than 10 weeks. The FFA was happy to agree to that, at the time they didn’t think they’d have any need for Docklands. They did a feasibility study on “rectangularising” the MCG, concluding it was unviable.
But it all came unstuck when an engineering report came back that it would be prohibitively expensive to upsize the Bubbledome, a ground the FFA had hoped to use. Some FIFA delegates were in Australia at the time, and the FFA took them on a tour of Docklands, mentioning it was a ground they were considering.
Had the AFL lost access to the MCG for a longer period of time than the 10 weeks they’d offered up, and if they’d lost access to Docklands as well, it would have been difficult to run a season. A look at the AFL fixture, and the number of games held at the MCG and Docklands, would show that to be true.
Unfortunately for the FFA, the tour of Docklands and the feasibility study into rectangularising the MCG both leaked to the AFL within 24 hours of each other. And that’s when all hell broke loose.
The AFL was reluctant to give anything more than they’d already agreed to. It wasn’t the AFL’s bid, and they believed they’d already offered up enough. In the end, a Memorandum of Understanding was reached and signed by both the AFL and FFA, effectively re-instating the original handshake agreement.
Of course the blogosphere went into overdrive, and the AFL not wanting to hand over Docklands or give up the MCG for more than 10 weeks was somehow construed as the AFL not supporting the bid.
May 16th 2012 @ 7:10pm
Titus said | May 16th 2012 @ 7:10pm | Report comment
The logistics didn’t matter at that point, Qatar said they were going to build 5? air conditioned stadiums FFS.
Docklands, upgraded skilled park, it didn’t matter.
The AFL and it’s media fed into an already insatiable anti sokkah feeling and from that moment we were no chance, not that we ever were.
May 16th 2012 @ 8:14pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:14pm | Report comment
No Titus – most AFL fans were supportive of the World Cup bid – most newspaper surveys proved that, but the AFL had commercial imperatives to consider, it could not offer more than it had already offered without massive commercial disadvantage, and at the end of the day, just as mds said, it wasn’t the AFL’s bid – it wasn’t up to the AFL to put the bid book together.
May 16th 2012 @ 8:24pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:24pm | Report comment
Titus
It’s a waste of time trying to engage in conversation with the AFL blokes.
In a way I’m glad the AFL behaved that way.
We were never going to win WC2022 hosting rights, but Demetriou’s petulance has helped speed up the process for many of football’s True Believers to totally break their ties with that petty little Australian sport.
May 16th 2012 @ 8:30pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:30pm | Report comment
You don’t want to engage in the conversation because we are right.
The FFA were wanting to run before they could walk.
Build up the domestic game – to such an extent that you control your own major stadia – then put in a bid – but if you have to rely on ovals controlled by another sport – well – doesn’t that indicate that the bid was premature??
For heaven’s sake, they even got AAMI Park wrong. The Victorian government gifts the FFA a $300 million stadium, and it can’t be used for the world cup!!
But no – it’s all the AFL’s fault!!
May 16th 2012 @ 8:35pm
UK Steve said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:35pm | Report comment
I’d say that’s game, set and match to TC.
May 16th 2012 @ 11:52pm
ItsCalled AussieRules said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:52pm | Report comment
AAMI stadium was not built for the FFA, it was built to hold rugby league and rugby union games as well and anyone else who wants to use it.
It also houses offices that are used by Melbourne Demons as their head office.
The Bid had more than enough stadiums without AAMI anyway, so your argument is pointless.
May 17th 2012 @ 12:10am
The Cattery said | May 17th 2012 @ 12:10am | Report comment
The bid ended up having enough ovals because Geelong was added to the list last minute.
It was a gross failure in planning that the FFA allowed the investment of $300 million of public money into a rectangular stadium that could NOT be used for the World Cup.
Rather than worrying about what the AFL did, they should be paying more attention to what the FFA did and didn’t do to ensure a failed bid.
May 16th 2012 @ 8:12pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:12pm | Report comment
Thank you mds – that’s precisely what happened, in that exact order. The AFL offered up the MCG very early in the piece – and that was a massive sacrifice, to give up your primary stadium for 10 weeks. Lowy and the FFA thought they had Government in their back pocket and tried to get that bit more, all the while having nothing to offer themselves.
Lowy miscalculated – he was never, ever going to win that battle.
In the end, the bid had the MCG in there for 10 weeks, just as the AFL had offered two years earlier.
It’s also worth mentioning that the bid book included six ovals. The obvious question has to be asked: why were their six ovals in the bid book? The answer: because no level of Government was willing to spend billions of dollars building white elephants.
May 16th 2012 @ 8:33pm
Titus said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:33pm | Report comment
The idea that the AFL “supported” the World Cup bid is a joke. It was clear to everyone, including many around the world, that they weren’t welcome, we don’t like sokkah…..it wasn’t going to be a world love fest like the Sydney Olympics.
I repeat, the logistics didn’t matter at that point, what mattered was support.
May 16th 2012 @ 8:41pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
Titus
The AFL had offered the MCG for 10 weeks – a huge imposition on the AFL. That occurred two years before the bid book was completed.
Which sport sacrificed more that that? Other sports were sacrificing diddly squat.
So with the AFL sacrificing the most for the good of the WC bid – on what basis can it be accused of not offering support?
May 16th 2012 @ 8:49pm
Titus said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:49pm | Report comment
Who cares! all we wanted was your goodwill and a bit of solidarity.
The games were 15 years away, we had time to sort the rest out.
May 16th 2012 @ 8:51pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:51pm | Report comment
What do you mean who cares? Was there a greater show of goodwill than offering the MCG for 10 weeks? And it was offered up two years before the bid book was completed.
How could there be a greater show of goodwill and support than that?
May 16th 2012 @ 8:57pm
Titus said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:57pm | Report comment
Do you mean, was there a greater show of goodwill than opposing it and drumming up resentment in the media?
Well yes, yes there was, the NRL for a start.
May 17th 2012 @ 12:30am
mds1970 said | May 17th 2012 @ 12:30am | Report comment
Titus, it all depends on how you define “support”.
Does “support” mean to make some public comment in favour of the bid (which the AFL did), or does it go further than that to making a commitment not to play their games at a certain place at a certain time, in order to enable World Cup games to be played there then?
Was the AFL wrong to seek clarification of what was required of them in order to “support” the event?
May 17th 2012 @ 6:56am
ManInBlack said | May 17th 2012 @ 6:56am | Report comment
Titus -
there are levels of support and levels of opposition.
The AFL displayed levels of support as did the NRL.
The AFL displayed what can be construed as opposition (even if just self interest), as did the NRL.
The AFL NEVER got to publicly reject an FFA workaround plan. The NRL did. That seems to be forgotten. Once the NRL rejected the FFA’s proposals, the FFA never got to the AFL and by Christmas 2009 the Federal Govt had had to step in.
The AFL had a key battle over Docklands stadium. This single issue seems to be the SOLE focus of the anti-AFL agenda. And, as MDS stated above – there had been public announcements from 2008 that the AFL would ‘support’ the bid but that Docklands was off the table. The FFA never openly accepted that in press releases. The powder was kept dry. And, eventually it blew up.
The AFL folk look at the FFA and still ponder why the FFA was so quick to disregard AAMI Park. The builders were quoted (but not widely reported) as stating that expansion of the venue (re the roof in particular) wasn’t actually that hard or expensive. Soccer fans & journos were demanding soccer specific legacy – and at AAMI Park was the opportunity. It was rejected and battlefield Docklands was opted for.
It was so desperately opted for that by March 2010 the FFA was still pushing hard (by that time surely it was obvious that they would never win) and ignoring the Vic Govt push for Skilled Stadium (Kardinia Park – Geelong) which had been on the table for over a year.
The FFA was determined. Much of the expressions of dismay since (from about June 2010 on) included Lowy and ‘unnamed sources’ within the FFA as being dismayed at the lack of Govt support pretty well in taking on the AFL. Lowy wanted the AFL bulldozed out of Docklands it would appear.
Again – AFL folk say that with Ben Buckley on board – there could not have been an excuse of ignorance over the water tight arrangements. No – the FFA was seeking legislation if need be to bulldoze another codes rightful claims.
That – dear Mr Titus was ‘code wars’.
Outside of the singular issue of Docklands and the AFL was giving up a heap of ovals – and was mainly seeking clarification on the no major sports in a host city FIFA stipulation. And fair enough wouldn’t you think. Each oval would be out of bounds for 4 weeks leading in. For 2-4 weeks within host cities during competition and who knows whether FIFA would release venues immediately or only after the final. These things the AFL needed to know. The NRL too.
And for people who glibly suggested the AFL could just start earlier, run later etc. See how much of a hullabaloo there is with the VRC when the AFL GF is held ONE week later. How hard it is for the AFL to access the cricket ovals ONE week early. It’s not just the AFL here. If the AFL held the venues ALL year – perhaps no real worry. The AFL doesn’t.
Support comes in different forms. There was NEVER going to be total unqualified support from the AFL or NRL. And there wasn’t.
To expect otherwise is the height of naivety. To still be complaining about it now shows a total disregard for the multilateral agreement reached via the MOU that was the outcome of what was a too dirty and too public process.
May 16th 2012 @ 8:32pm
Punter said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:32pm | Report comment
mds, at least you first sentence is correct.
May 16th 2012 @ 8:51pm
mds1970 said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:51pm | Report comment
Is there anything in my post that is factually incorrect?
May 16th 2012 @ 8:53pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:53pm | Report comment
People on the other side of the argument don’t want to follow the sequence of events point by point.
It’s far easier just to blame the AFL for everything.
May 16th 2012 @ 11:43pm
ManInBlack said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:43pm | Report comment
and I reply to myself at the end of the day – - yup, you wuz right with your thought early this morning – - it wouldn’t take much to spark a ‘reconflagration’ of this particular piece of the ‘code war’.
Point proven – code wars exist in the main from the top down.
re the WC bid.
The misrepresentation is astounding 2 odd years on.
Demetriou never said the AFL season would not go ahead unless 1 of two scenarios played out. A – AFL denied MCG for upward of 12 weeks (under the potential or not potential – costed but not a serious plan – play to rectangularise the MCG) or B – that the AFL was denied BOTH the MCG and Docklands.
You can’t just present a blanket statement re the comments by Demetriou. Because it was NOT a blanket comment.
And – if you’re going to be so single minded to focus on this worst case scenario – then pull yourself back about a month before those comments from Demetriou (early Dec 2009) to the comments from the NRL fraternity who made it clear that clubs would be in jeopardy and Gallop stated clearly that the proposition was not doable. What do people think he meant by that???
What we saw though – was the media feasting. It was not in their interest to clarify – but, to villify. The end result was a MOU signed off upon and surely – no one should still be holding onto grudges.
But – evidently they are. And that’s really, really sad. (IMHO).
May 17th 2012 @ 8:24am
Bondy said | May 17th 2012 @ 8:24am | Report comment
This article suggests that code wars are dreamed up in peoples minds or as some others believe the sydney press ,the author suggests he plays and watches different football codes and enjoys and appreciates all forms ,and the code war is all silly talk,and the first preson to comment on this thread starts to make trouble with his first post ,there you go .
May 16th 2012 @ 7:21am
neos osmos said | May 16th 2012 @ 7:21am | Report comment
I think that you are right that the ordinary punters are capable of being across a number of sports, but wars are rarely instigated and perpetuated by ordinary people. Wars are declared and funded by the powerful. If Vlad wants war, there will be war.
May 16th 2012 @ 9:34pm
Chris A said | May 16th 2012 @ 9:34pm | Report comment
But wars are fought by the needy, and I don’t see any collateral damage only hot air.
May 16th 2012 @ 8:55am
Australian Rules said | May 16th 2012 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Good article.
This “war” was a fiction created purely by the Sydney media.
There was no ‘invasion’ when the Storm arrived in Melbourne. No ‘war declared’ by the A-League when it launched or expanded into new regions. Nor were ‘battlelines’ drawn on the Gold Coast when the Suns were introduced.
But when the AFL decided to put a team into W.Syd…the Sydney media went into hyperbolic overdrive…particularly the D.Telegraph. It sells copy and gets clicks…but the idea of a ‘war’ in which people have to choose is complete nonsense.
Unfortunately my name paints me a certain way, but I follow
May 16th 2012 @ 11:59am
Australian Rules said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:59am | Report comment
*every sport on offer
May 16th 2012 @ 10:31pm
The Link said | May 16th 2012 @ 10:31pm | Report comment
Given Folau and Hunt were poached precicely as a media reaction strategy the AFL knew exactly what it was doing and has got the response it was after. The AFL has played the Sydney media game well to date, lets not paint it as some unwitting party.
May 16th 2012 @ 11:47pm
ManInBlack said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:47pm | Report comment
I’d suggest certain AFL (Aust Football) figures found out the hard way that, as Eddie McGuire put it – Sydney isn’t just another city – - it’s like another country.
Me thinx the strategy has been nutted out then over a period of time based on lessons learned. Sometimes – - you just have to ‘play to the crowd’.
Perhaps it says less about the AFL and more about the Sydney market. If people in Sydney decide they don’t like it – perhaps they need to ask why such actions were deemed necessary.
May 16th 2012 @ 9:05am
nordster said | May 16th 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
lets broaden it beyond “football codes” and talk about “sporting codes” or sports. I agree people usually follow more than one so the “war” is something some media outlets play up as their vision is a little narrow as to which sports are at war. Just the dominant ones. In reality, people tastes are more sophisticated than that even if the “war” narrative doesn’t accommodate it.
me even as a bit of a ummm “zealot” about football, still have time for cycling, various forms of motor racing, golf etc. The sports marketplace is much broader than what some refer to as “football codes”.
May 16th 2012 @ 9:15am
Chris A said | May 16th 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
I agree entirely, the main ‘war’ that is being published is generally said to be between the football codes but I just think it’s media hype.
May 16th 2012 @ 9:55am
Qantas supports Australian Football said | May 16th 2012 @ 9:55am | Report comment
I suppose you would think that the attack on Perl Harbour wasn’t a declaration of war—-just a misunderstanding.. C’mon man, you live in Melbourne not in the Western Suburbs of Sydney.. Gus Gould and Mark Geyer prominent West Sydney Leaguies on the front line will tell you differently..
May 16th 2012 @ 9:42pm
Chris A said | May 16th 2012 @ 9:42pm | Report comment
I think I’ll refuse to compare Pearl Harbour or World War 2 to the ‘code war’.
I don’t think anyone in western sydney have suddenly abandoned NRL or Union as the Giants appeared there. As well as this soccer fans will hopefully follow the new team there and I doubt you’ll see a dip in any other code numbers. It’s not even close to being a frontline.
May 16th 2012 @ 10:51am
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 16th 2012 @ 10:51am | Report comment
I agree with a lot of the sentiments in this article yet, from the time I arrived in Australia in the early 70s, football has been ridiculed & derided by non-football fans – particularly, Aussie Rules fans.
No matter where we were playing or training, if there were Aussie Rules being played on an adjacent field, you can be sure that someone from the Aussie Rules group of players or supporters would yell out something disparaging about our Game – most often using “the SWP slur”.
This wouldn’t happen when field hockey, or cricket, or athletics, etc. was being played on adjacent fields – only the Aussie Rules buffoons would feel the need to offer us their suburban opinions of our world game.
Yet, I – as a staunchly committed Football person – went to watch VFL/AFL nearly every week for 20 years. I was willing to embrace the sport and I thoroughly enjoyed these afternoons.
But, never again – I’ve not only lost respect for everything to do with Aussie Rules, but I no longer enjoy watching the game.
And, let’s be honest, with access to Live football matches, football news & football analyses available 24x7x365 at the click of a button, who has the time to watch any other sport? I’d rather watch Gamba Osaka v Urawa Diamonds than Collingwood v Essendon.
May 16th 2012 @ 10:59am
SportsFanMelb said | May 16th 2012 @ 10:59am | Report comment
Fuss – you were making comments about the AFL on the thread about the final day of the EPL season being so dramatic, at that stage not a single other person had even mentioned another code yet you went straight to AFL.
If you don’t like it and don’t have time for it – why talk about it ad nausem?
If you actually believe you are better than some of the muck raking trolls that frequent this site then why constantly bring up a sport you don’t like and don’t respect?
May 16th 2012 @ 11:04am
JamesP said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
Yep, where is the guy who does Fussballs AFL tracking spreadsheet….
May 16th 2012 @ 11:04am
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
If I recall, I was responding to snide attacks on the integrity of the Game game & commitment of players by notorious AFL fan & football troll, UK Steve.
May 16th 2012 @ 11:14am
SportsFanMelb said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:14am | Report comment
So you bought up the AFL because someone else commented about the integrity of the EPL and they happen to be a fan of another code?
If he was a notorious Tennis fan would you have gone on the offensive about Tennis?
May 16th 2012 @ 11:24am
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:24am | Report comment
As I said, in 40 years living in Australia, only 1 group of sports fans are persistently aggressive in attacking football. And, it ain’t the tennis folk.
May 16th 2012 @ 11:36am
SportsFanMelb said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:36am | Report comment
Fair enough, however, I wouldn’t say that the they are the only fans to have been negative towards soccer
May 16th 2012 @ 11:41am
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:41am | Report comment
SFN
I’m speaking from a perspective of living in Melbourne.
In 40 years living in Melbourne, I reckon I’ve seen not more than 10 instances of people playing Rugby – League or Union – at grassroots level, in any park in Melbourne.
But, I’ve played football (indoor & outdoor) adjacent to cricket, field hockey, netball, basketball – not one instance of anti-football abuse when these sports are in the vicinity of football.
May 16th 2012 @ 12:31pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
Fussball
ignorant souls are to be found in all walks of life, and it’s not out of the question that you had the misfortune of coming across some Collinwood supporters, who are an ignoble lot at the best of times.
For the sake of your mental well being, it’s time to let it go and move on.
May 16th 2012 @ 1:25pm
TomC said | May 16th 2012 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
Yeah, I’m with the Cattery on this. This is a really stupid way to look at the world, Fuss.
To stop enjoying an activity just because some people who also participate in that activity are obnoxious makes no sense.
There are an enormous number of people in Melbourne who are fans of both AFL and soccer, and another enormous number of AFL fans who respect and are interested in soccer, even if they don’t go to a lot of games. These people greatly outnumber the handful of idiots you’ve encountered.
May 16th 2012 @ 1:42pm
The_Wookie said | May 16th 2012 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
Fuss, in 12 years of living in Melbourne – admittedly through the 80s and 90s, but the same wss true in Adelaide when i came here,, I can tell you that we played all manner of sports. Cricket, and football may well have been the bigwigs in our hourse, but we played any sport we could get our hands on be it at school, picnics, at the park, or the beach. Ive seen kids pick up a flat footy and decide its time to try rugby. Ive seen basketballs converted to soccer balls and vice cersa. Ive seen tennis rackets converted to cricket bats – and we lost a lot of tennis balls that day.
Heres one truth, any kid on the spur of the moment can convert any oval ball into a rugby ball – either code, American Football or Australian football. Tennis balls get used for cricket, hockey, soccer, baseball, rounders, and christ knows what else. Any kid can turn a round ball into a basketball, netball, volleyball or soccer ball. Any kid can, and most kids will over time. Hell most adults will.
My 15 year old son has played soccer at a local and regional level, he’s played rugby union for his school, and this weekend he’s running out on the the ground at aldiinga to play his first australian football game for hackham. And Ive supported him all the way.
It wasnt until I joined the Roar that I realised there was even a code war being fought. Didnt exactly cover myself in glory here when I started either lol.
May 16th 2012 @ 1:53pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
I have to back up Wookie here, looking back over my life, it’s a long, long, long list of sports I’ve played both competitively and socially, and that doesn’t count the myriad of games you make up when you’re young, as Wookie suggests, converting whatever you have in front of you and playing whatever comes to mind – it’s a long, long list.
Reminiscing a bit, I can even remember playing rugby at my primary school in Victoria.
A funny looking kid had just moved to our school from queensland – he could best be described as a young Tony Abbot, in fact, maybe it was him?
One day, he brought a rugby ball to school – we seemed to all recognise that it was a different ball, but we took to it immediately, playing rugby all lunch time, having the time of our lives.
At least we were playing what we thought was Rugby – as we practised doing quarter back throws to each other – that’s the rugby we had all seen on American TV shows!!
May 16th 2012 @ 2:01pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 16th 2012 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
The Wookie
I can assure you that our Primary School – in the early-1970s – didn’t even have a football in the equipment room. At Secondary School, the equipment was more diverse but if anyone was caught kicking a basketball or volley ball – it was immediate corporal punishment with a leather strap.
But, I take your point. Kids have no preconceived prejudices, or biases against people or things that “look different”. But, bigoted & prejudiced parents will transform the minds of children.
If you’ve lived in Australia & never heard the SWP insult directed at football-fans, then I can only assume you’ve lived a much more sheltered life than I have.
May 16th 2012 @ 2:02pm
slickwilly said | May 16th 2012 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
are we to assume those who play the world game in other countries are a generous lot who embrace sporting diversity… simply by virtue of the fact they play the world game…
May 16th 2012 @ 2:13pm
BigAl said | May 16th 2012 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
And so it should be !
Kicking a basket ball or a volley ball is a cardinal sin ! anywhere in the world that cares about sport.
May 16th 2012 @ 2:13pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 16th 2012 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
slickwilly
From my observation, football fans o/s either embrace another sport (e.g. F1 Racing, handball, basketball, wintersports, etc.) or they don’t.
But, I don’t hear them making disparaging comments about sports they don’t like.
I don’t expect – actually, I don’t even want – people in AUS, who don’t like football, to embrace football.
I just want them to leave us the hell alone to enjoy our Game. I’ve never felt the need to shout obscenities when I walk past people playing cricket, basketball, Aussie Rules, etc.
Why is it that we used to hear the W*g-ball line consistently when we played on pitches adjacent to Aussie Rules?
May 16th 2012 @ 2:26pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
I remember having great fun kicking a volley ball in a confined space. Unfortunately, the volleyball didn’t last too long under such circumstances and our Dutch phys ed teacher was never happy about it: je kan ‘t niet doen!!
May 16th 2012 @ 2:52pm
Bondy said | May 16th 2012 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
Is that Hackham United or City .
May 16th 2012 @ 3:02pm
Bondy said | May 16th 2012 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
Why not I’ll join in , my parents (nrl freaks) got us into football at the age of four,we played numerous sports as kids with cricket out the back and tennis, badminton swimming at school we’d play rugby league, football and occasionally rugby in the park,and i’m assuming like most here that those types of kiddies went on to represent the school at all sports,its rare to find kids who only play one sport in this country.
I think keyboard warrioring here at times can be put down to our competitve streak in sports as sportsmen or women,but it shouldnt get to heavy .
May 16th 2012 @ 3:02pm
The Cattery said | May 16th 2012 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
Might have been PSV’s great nemesis – Helmond Sport.
May 16th 2012 @ 4:08pm
BigAl said | May 16th 2012 @ 4:08pm | Report comment
Fussball – in the suburb that I live – WOGS RULE !
– its scawled everywhere.
May 16th 2012 @ 11:12am
Nathan of Perth said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:12am | Report comment
“I’d rather watch Gamba Osaka v Urawa Diamonds than Collingwood v Essendon.”
What are you, Fuss, a baseball fan? It’s Urawa RED Diamonds!
May 16th 2012 @ 12:18pm
Fussballs AFL tracking spreadsheet said | May 16th 2012 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
It may be that you prefer to WATCH Japanese baseball, but we can confidently say that it’s the Collingwood V Essendon game you’ll be obsessively recording the TV ratings and attendances for.
May 16th 2012 @ 11:58pm
ItsCalled AussieRules said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:58pm | Report comment
Hey,
as a tracking spreadsheet you would have noticed that AFL attendances and TV ratings are dropping like cow dung and are now nearly 12% lower than 2010.
And the average attendance so far this season of 33,343 is the lowest since 1997.
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/summary.html
The GWS Giants are averaging “home” crowds of 8,665, which is nearly half Sydney FCs average for this season.
May 17th 2012 @ 12:05am
The Cattery said | May 17th 2012 @ 12:05am | Report comment
GWS’ home game average so far this season is actually 15,600.
33,343 across 9 games per round is excellent.
May 16th 2012 @ 11:54pm
ManInBlack said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:54pm | Report comment
Fuss – you might find that
A. just as many folk of continental European extraction where villified within Aust Footy as outside. It was a state of the society at the time. But – for you it seems only a reflection of a single sport. That seems more reflective of a massive chip on your shoulder.
B. there has always been a healthy amount of abuse and disrespect fired back the other way. You seem to have the sense that it was all one way traffic.
And – topical to this article – all you need do is search the newspapers of Sydney or Brisbane circa 1880 when more so than in Melbourne (where the local game was well established) – there were ‘code wars’ around the English games of Rugby, Old Rugby and Association Football that were being introduced by superior English immigrants convinced that nothing of use could come from the colonies…..etc….etc back and forth and it continues to this day.
So – it really seems a bit rich that you pick out a narrow timeframe from such a long time line and attempt to play the victim card. Much water under the bridge has flowed!!
May 17th 2012 @ 12:14am
peeeko said | May 17th 2012 @ 12:14am | Report comment
here, here. i think of the reasons afl and league supporters give it to soccer fans is in retaliation to the whole “world , beautiful game argument” brought upon by soccer fans. its all a bit of back and forth and no one really knows who started it
May 16th 2012 @ 10:51am
SportsFanMelb said | May 16th 2012 @ 10:51am | Report comment
Good article Chris A and it is something I have mentioned in the past in various threads – the code war is 100% a Sydney media driven agenda by lazy journalists who either don’t have the talent to write good sports articles or want to seem/feel like they are contributing to the hits online to their paper.
I suppose that the unfortuante thing is that there are fans of various sports who are zealots and cannot fathom how anyone can watch more than one sport and still be passionate about that sport. I persoanlly like variety and living in Melbourne we have access to everything at some time during the year.
It should be mentioned that when the Storm, Victory, Heart, Rebels joined the local scene at various times in the past 10-12 years that was not any mention of a code war going on at Olympic Park precinct where the MCG, AAMI Park and the Tennis Centre sit, rather the teams came in, represented Melbourne in their various competitions and generally have a good level of support and respect from the community.
The last point I will make is the absolute hypocrisy that comes from some RL journo’s who in the same breath go on and on about GWS and the “invasion” into West Sydney but they are more than happy to adovcate that Perth must have a RL team in the competition. Anyone who travels to Perth can see its an AFL town (the WA government just confirmed they are building a new 60-000 seat stadium for WCE and Freo to play out of starting 2018), however no articles about a war going on in Perth last time I checked.
Any competition, be it AFL, NRL, ARU, FFA Basketball, Baseball etc etc can put a team anywhere they want in Australia if they want to. They do not need permission from anyone and no sport owns areas (they be more popular than others).
QSAF – Pearl Harbour has nothing to do with sports competitions putting teams in new markets, ridiculous to compare the two.
May 16th 2012 @ 11:01am
Nathan of Perth said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:01am | Report comment
Good article – have seen on many an occasion very surprising kit choices worn by spectators to sporting events, and many times have see, for instance, Eagles or Dockers hats and polos on the sidelines and canteens of grassroots football matches! At the pre-game before the semi-final against Wellington, the GFU boys had the Freo AFL match up on one screen and a WAFL match up on another and there was boisterous support. When I attended the Australia-India test match, the girl sitting in front of us was wearing a Harry Kewell Socceroos kit. My last trip to Subi I saw a number of people wearing EPL kits and the like (alas, no A-League, must work on rectifying that).
There is a lot of cross-over support in this country. In particular, a lot of the states outside of NSW and Victoria tend to be very good in supporting the home teams irrespective of the code.
May 16th 2012 @ 11:11am
Bondy said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:11am | Report comment
Where always linked to both winter and summer sports which helps straight off the bat, whether it be Cricket, Surf Life Saving, A League in summer or AFL,NRL, Sp Rugby in winter, its one of the most diverse sporting markets in the world i’d suggest only America would have as many pro sports than us .
May 16th 2012 @ 11:14am
Futbanous said | May 16th 2012 @ 11:14am | Report comment
“I suppose that the unfortuante thing is that there are fans of various sports who are zealots and cannot fathom how anyone can watch more than one sport and still be passionate about that sport. I persoanlly like variety and living in Melbourne we have access to everything at some time during the year.”
SFM,there are also zealots coming from another direction.
Any migrant like myself from a football background can relate countless incidents over many years where Aussie Rules & RL people in particular have got upset & resorted to ridiculous repetitive slurs on football.
All because you said I’m not interested in AR or RL. Note not interested,very different from slagging off.
Never noticed the same vitriol from cricket or other sports fans.
May 16th 2012 @ 12:05pm
SportsFanMelb said | May 16th 2012 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
Futbanous – I tried to make that comment as general as possible to include all sports fans who are one eyed and see a particular sport as the “enemy”.
If you go through the threads on this site it happens on all of them, including soccer, and its not generally from people who said they are not interested in another sport rather they try an advocate why there game is better than someone elses.
The following are some of the base level arguments that get the keyboard code warriors going:
1. NRL – Our game is the toughest sport to play, it is international, we have State of Origin, we have a club team in NZ
2. AFL – Our game is uniquely Australian, It is the most athletic game to play, it is played in all parts of AUS not just a few states, we have the most money
3. Soccer – We are the international game so therefore are sports are inferior because they are not played by as many countries
4. Rugby Union – Our game is international, we have the third biggest sporting event behind the Olympics and Soccer World Cup
You see variations of these arguments go round in circles with people saying the same thing in a different way.
May 16th 2012 @ 12:28pm
Futbanous said | May 16th 2012 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
SFM
Yes agree but I’m not talking about keyboard warriors I’m talking about times way before the Internet in real life & indicating that there is another side to the story,no more no less.
Your point has justification but no more than mine.
May 16th 2012 @ 12:43pm
SportsFanMelb said | May 16th 2012 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
Futbanous – Just saying that all sports have fans that are unduly disrespectful of someone else’s choice in sport. No sport is immune and to suggest otherwise (pre-internet or not) is just not living in reality.
May 16th 2012 @ 1:06pm
Futbanous said | May 16th 2012 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
SFM
Some would say that posting on the internet is not reality,but thats another story.