Selecting the Wallaby front row
By jeznez, 18 May 2012 jeznez is a Roar Guru
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The Wallaby pack has been beaten up by quite a few parties over the past few years. There’s no better time to be ruthless at the selection table.
The All Blacks have held the Bledisloe Cup since 2003, Samoa beat us in 2011, a rebuilding England knocked us over on their last tour down under and Scotland broke a twenty-seven year losing streak at Murrayfield in 2009.
Indeed, since 2002 the Wallaby forwards have been seen as vulnerable.
This vulnerability came after a strong period, highlighted by the 1984 Grand Slam.
This phase included that magnificent push-over try against Wales, the 1991 World Cup, the 1999 World Cup and five Bledisloe Cups in a row from 1998-2002.
Apart from the Brisbane game the All Blacks have put huge pressure on the Australian team across the park.
Steve Hansen has listed his initial All Blacks training squad for the year and Robbie Deans cannot be far behind with the Wallabies.
I expect that Robbie will see the Wallaby selections quite differently from me. He has with every squad he has named so far in his tenure, so why should this one be any different?
Regardless I think it is time to start throwing up some names for the pack I would like to see.
As usual I’ll leave the cardboard cutouts for others to hypothesise over.
This week I’ll focus on the front rowers, with the second and back row to come out next week.
The loosehead prop has to be Benn Robinson. He has been the standout loosehead prop in the country all year at scrum time.
His work around the park started very poorly but he has been lifting.
We’ll want him to step up further in that space while maintaining that scrummaging.
Interestingly Ben Tameifuna has been his toughest battle all year, followed by Dan Palmer.
The normally strong Crusaders scrum actually got pushed back a couple of steps a couple of times, which bodes well for Robinson’s form.
Of the props playing loosehead in Australia this year my second choice is Greg Holmes. He is playing well and scrummaging well.
For hooker, I think Stephen Moore has to be first choice.
Tatafu Polota-Nau makes some great impact plays but his efforts over 80 minutes do not match those of Moore.
Both hookers have issues with their lineout throwing, although both have improved in this area.
The next rank of Nathan Charles, James Hanson and Saia Fainga’a all have work to do to catch the top two Aussie rakes.
Dan Palmer is my choice for tighthead prop. He held up strongly against Robinson in their head-to-head during the Brumbies and Waratahs match.
It was quite notable to me that the second Palmer left the field Jeremy Tilse was brought on by the Waratahs.
It was as if Michael Foley wanted to get Tilse his first run of the year (following the injury to Paddy Ryan), but was not game to give him minutes against Palmer.
Sekope Kepu is my second-choice tighthead. He is either very lucky or unlucky he doesn’t pack down twice against Robinson over the course of the season.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall at an Aussie or Waratah scrum session to see what happens when they oppose.
James Slipper is the next prop in line; he has been ok at tighthead but I believe his greatest potential is at loosehead.
Slipper’s best scrummaging performance over the past few years was against Italy’s Martin Castrogiovanni in 2010 and came at loosehead.
He was under significant pressure against Sona Taumalolo last week and until he grows stronger he remains just on the cusp.
Despite his loosehead potential he plays tighthead for the Reds and looks to be our third choice here.
Ben Alexander, Pek Cowan and Salesi Ma’afu are significantly behind. This trio have been Deans’ favourites though and I’ll be disappointed, but not surprised, if they get in ahead of some of the afore mentioned.
Behind this group the developing props are encouraging, with Kieran Longbottom and Paddy Ryan unlucky to get injured.
Jeremy Tilse has just started getting some game time and needs to fix his foot movement on engagement. He remains a promising loosehead option.
Ruaidhri Murphy is another to keep an eye on, but I don’t believe he is eligible for Australia yet. He needs to continue his development.
Salesi Ma’afu, Pek Cowan, Ben Daley, Rodney Blake, Laurie Weeks and Nic Henderson are behind this leading group and need significant improvement if they desire higher honours.
Robinson and Palmer both missed last year’s representative games due to injury and hopefully they lead the charge of bringing respect back to Wallaby scrummaging in the coming internationals.
I would like to see continued improvement from both of them around the field.
I’m looking to see a first-choice front row of Robinson, Moore and Palmer, with Polota-Nau and Kepu on the bench.
Slipper is the next reserve, although I would have Holmes leapfrog him if anything happened to Robinson.
Tune in next week for a review of the second row and back row.
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May 18th 2012 @ 3:01am
bluerose said | May 18th 2012 @ 3:01am | Report comment
3-Dan Palmer.
2-Stephen Moore.
1-Benn Robinson.
reserves:
16-Tatafu PN.
17-Sekope Kepu (can play both sides).
- i wonder if its possible to sacrifice height in the 2nd row and go for powerful pushing flankers like Elsom/Dennis or Fardy/Dennis, will it work? or tall locks like Timani/Douglass or Douglass/Pyle? just curious to know
May 18th 2012 @ 11:09am
jeznez said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:09am | Report comment
I think Horwill is a shoe in for one of the lock positions. Simmons, Timani, Douglas, Fardy, Carter, Pyle, Jones, Neville and Lynn are all vying for that other spot.
A Fardy – Dennis second row is an interesting one – particularly if our props in Palmer and Robinson don’t have the highest work rate.
Timani – Douglas was shown in the Canberra match to run out of steam early in the second half. Giving these guys half a game each partnering Horwill is an option. The fitness issue has been created by Foley – there is nothing like playing for building match fitness and the limited minutes he is giving this pair is holding them back.
I think the second lock position is wide open at the moment and will be watching all games this weekend trying to spot something to separate two players from the pack.
May 18th 2012 @ 11:34am
Markus said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:34am | Report comment
A double scrummaging/workhorse lock combination does raise other questions too, in particular the lineout.
With the Fardy/Dennis combination for example, both are secondary lineout jumpers, and neither calls for their team, so you would require a flanker who can cover that role, similar to Adam Thomson for the Highlanders.
In Australia I think Mowen is the only backrower that fills that sort of role.
May 18th 2012 @ 11:43am
jeznez said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Dennis is the caller when Mumm is off the field – but yes he is not the primary. Mowen does fit the bill if you head that direction.
May 18th 2012 @ 12:04pm
rl said | May 18th 2012 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
Good observations Jez. Going on the Reds-Force ‘mandate’ for the Scotland test, I’m thinking Sharpe-Simmons for Scotland. If he pulls up OK from his game on the preceding weekend, I reckon Neville is a smokey for the bench. He could be anything (once upon a time all good second-rowers moonlighted as rowers). If he’s sore, Lynn gets a run.
Horwill-Douglas for Wales. I’m undecided yet about the bench spot – part of me thinks we should be looking at blooding a ‘pure’ lock (rather than a hybrid loosie), which puts “tweeners” like Fardy and Jones at a disadvantage. Then again, if they do all the things expected of them and more, who cares how big they are.
Pretty handy talent pool I reckon. Just need one or two of these blokes to step up and grab the opportunity. I’m particuarly going to watch the locks in the Rebels-Force match this weekend.
May 18th 2012 @ 3:58am
Ben S said | May 18th 2012 @ 3:58am | Report comment
I would also be inclined to start Palmer and have Kepu as a impact sub. The same applies to Moore and TPN. Aside from the fact that I think Moore is a very accomplished forward, I think it would be beneficial for him to play alongside Palmer.
May 18th 2012 @ 11:02am
jeznez said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:02am | Report comment
That is part of my reasoning as well. Giving the debutant his club mate so that their combination can work together would help him.
May 18th 2012 @ 5:41am
Who Needs Melon said | May 18th 2012 @ 5:41am | Report comment
All sounds eminently sensible to me. So I can see in my mind Deans right now rubbing his hands together and saying “no, wait, that’s just who they will be EXPECTING me to pick”.
May 18th 2012 @ 6:01am
Justin said | May 18th 2012 @ 6:01am | Report comment
Jez – nice job. The Rugby Club had Horan kafer and Kearns on. They chose their packs. Kepu picked at TH by all 3, Robinson by no one (from memory)! Moore twice TPN once. LHs were Alexander and Slipper. Lots of other combos on the bench though.
May 18th 2012 @ 6:25am
Red Kev said | May 18th 2012 @ 6:25am | Report comment
Yeah I noticed that too – Kearns did say that he would pick Robinson if he kept improving his work rate the way he has the last two weeks though.
May 20th 2012 @ 11:03am
Aware said | May 20th 2012 @ 11:03am | Report comment
Robinson is regarded by other front-rowers around the world very highly, especially as a scrummager. His absence in the last World Cup was telling, especially against Ireland and NZ. I also think Palmer is very promising on the tighthead side. Why all this obsession about front-rowers having to get around the park like greyhounds? I thought back-rowers were for that. Kearns and that other crowd are from an era when losing scrums was regarded as an acceptable sacrifice for mobility.
May 21st 2012 @ 5:45pm
mattamkII said | May 21st 2012 @ 5:45pm | Report comment
Aware. The last beldisloe test last year showed why. Kepu and Alexander not only scrummaged well but were at almost as many breakdowns as the loosies…made a massive difference
May 24th 2012 @ 11:18am
Aware said | May 24th 2012 @ 11:18am | Report comment
I must have been watching a different world cup to you mattamkll. If my memory serves, Kepu and Alexander were so ineffective they had to be replaced by Maafu and Slipper, with Slipper being forced into the unfamiliar loose-head role.
May 18th 2012 @ 10:03am
Jutsie said | May 18th 2012 @ 10:03am | Report comment
I don’t get why they all rate slipper so highly, for all their strengths the scrum is one place where the reds never have the upper hand.
The two best scrums in aus are easily the tahs and brumbies.
May 18th 2012 @ 10:07am
Justin2 said | May 18th 2012 @ 10:07am | Report comment
Yeah agreed. Apparently Slipper is a better LH but is playing nearly all his football at TH as they have no one else.
May 18th 2012 @ 11:16am
jeznez said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:16am | Report comment
Yet the Growden rumour mill suggests the Reds are looking at Tilse, that would be just what they need a fourth LH. I guess if Growden is saying it then it probably isn’t happening.
May 18th 2012 @ 7:58am
Moreton Bait said | May 18th 2012 @ 7:58am | Report comment
I suspect Deans, being naturally cautious, may want to ease Palmer into the test squad/team. Assuming mainly Force and Reds players in the Scotland test, perhaps something like Holmes, Charles, Palmer with Cowan/Ma’afu and Saia/Hanson subbing for the mid-week game. As you note Jez, that covers some of Deans’ favourites.
Incumbents tend to get first crack if upright and breathing so I’d guess Robinson, Moore, Kefu for the first Wales test with Slipper and TPN off the bench. If Palmer (and/or Holmes for that matter) impresses against Scotland they could figure in later Wales tests. Robinson’s scrum work has looked OK but he’s still building confidence around the field. Moore has been going very well.
Ben Daley should consider moving to Hooker
May 18th 2012 @ 11:20am
jeznez said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:20am | Report comment
Another Roarer made the Daley to hooker call last year and I am completely sold on it. Would love his round the park efforts being made in a two shirt. Just needs to spend hours throwing lineouts and playing darts.
May 18th 2012 @ 11:24am
Justin2 said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:24am | Report comment
And drinking pots?
May 18th 2012 @ 11:32am
jeznez said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:32am | Report comment
just for balance
May 18th 2012 @ 8:25am
Shungmao said | May 18th 2012 @ 8:25am | Report comment
I think the best starting three are: Robinson , Moore , Slipper
Reserves: Kepu, TPN, Holmes. ( this is under 8 sub rule thinking, Holmes out under current rules)
May 18th 2012 @ 8:40am
kingplaymaker said | May 18th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
There’s no reason to start Palmer over Kepu. Kepu has improved this year and has one international season’s experience, so the best thing is to start Kepu and bring Palmer off the bench and if Palmer does better over some matches then put Kepu on the bench and start Palmer.
TPN is a far more powerful player than Moore, a better scrummager and a less bad line-out thrower. You need a bull like TPN to face bulls such as Du Plessis and Mealamu, as flamingos such as Moore are too spindly. When fit and on-form TPN has done better than Moore.
Robinson, TPN, Kepu with Palmer, Moore, Slipper on the bench.
It’s an open contest however and so if any of the bench players do better than the starters they should swap positions with them.
May 18th 2012 @ 9:04am
Justin2 said | May 18th 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
KPM – when in “form”. Thats the problem for TPN. He has more impact in his 4 involvements for a match but I dont want a lazy bloke on the field who as each week increases he is a chance of also being KO’d. Moore has been superb for ACT and Australia. He outplays TPN most weeks. ANd I would hardly call Mealamu a “bull”. He generally is a “burrower” not a bull.
May 18th 2012 @ 9:04am
Markus said | May 18th 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
TPN is a lazy player. For every highlights reel tackle he pulls off, Moore has made 10.
And for all his strengths, Bismark du Plessis has never really been a world-class scrummager either.
Fair reasoning over the preference for Kepu. Both tightheads definitely deserve squad call-up on form, though.
May 18th 2012 @ 9:05am
Justin2 said | May 18th 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
BDP gives away a stack of penalties and turns it over but the commentators love him and reckon he is top shelf. Best hooker in the world my a$$…
May 18th 2012 @ 9:50am
Bakkies said | May 18th 2012 @ 9:50am | Report comment
Du Plessis is a hot head. He does play a fetcher role for his teams so he is going to give away a few penalties. Saia Faingaa is an inferior version of him. Penalty magnet, weak at both key set pieces.
Never rated Kepu. The Rob Horne of the Wallaby forward packs. Needs to justify the hype and his selection at test level.
May 18th 2012 @ 10:15am
kingplaymaker said | May 18th 2012 @ 10:15am | Report comment
Bakkies Kepu is better this year than last. A player can improve.
May 18th 2012 @ 11:40am
Bakkies said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Depends on how you define improvement (we heard this about Dunning and Baxter every year during Super Rugby season). Anything better then his poor RWC performances is an improvement.
May 18th 2012 @ 11:55am
kingplaymaker said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:55am | Report comment
Bakkies he wasn’t that bad and in any case went off early in semi. I wouldn’t claim he’s superman but he has played well this season at Super level and deserves a go at the next level before being written off.
May 18th 2012 @ 11:56am
jeznez said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Bakkies – Kepu is looking better at THP than he ever did at LHP. Robinson’s injury last year prompted Deans to play Kepu predominantly at LHP which didn’t help him.
I definitely think he has earnt an early shot at the three jersey, I just think young Palmer has his nose in front.
May 18th 2012 @ 12:03pm
Bakkies said | May 18th 2012 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
Kepu had his head shoved up his backside against Ireland. He was bad.
May 18th 2012 @ 12:19pm
kingplaymaker said | May 18th 2012 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Bakkies that’s not true and in any case his whole pack were being steamrolled. Probably the backrow were most to blame.
May 18th 2012 @ 12:21pm
jeznez said | May 18th 2012 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
Bakkies, Kepu was at 1 and Alexander at 3 in that game. I’m definitely not suggesting him for further investigation at LHP.
I don’t know if I blanked it out but surely Kepu spent some time in the Wallaby 3 jumper with Slipper at 1 or did that just not happen last year?
May 19th 2012 @ 10:47am
Bakkies said | May 19th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
KPM watch the game again. The Irish front row made him their new plaything
May 18th 2012 @ 9:26am
kingplaymaker said | May 18th 2012 @ 9:26am | Report comment
TPN is not lazy: in fact very few players are lazy at this level. You’re accusing him of having a low work-rate.
He doesn’t. He has a high work-rate and just because some moments of impact standout that doesn’t mean there aren’t many several less spectacular but useful contributions. Moore doesn’t do more in terms of work, simply because he doesn’t make any big hits. TPN has both the workrate and the hits.
May 18th 2012 @ 9:36am
Ben S said | May 18th 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Do you have the stats for rucks hit, tackles made etc? Because that would offer support to your assertions.
May 18th 2012 @ 9:52am
Justin2 said | May 18th 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
OK quick study of stats on Rugby Heaven shows the following on a per match average –
Moore – 7.6 runs, 11.7 tackles, 7.5 ruck involvements
TPN – 4.4 runs, 6.6 tackles, 3.7 ruck involvements
Work rate – Its Moore by a Knock Out!
May 18th 2012 @ 9:53am
Markus said | May 18th 2012 @ 9:53am | Report comment
It’s not an accusation, TPN does have a substantially lower workrate than Moore.
Moore is in the top 20 for both number of tackles and runs made this season, while TPN has never come close to featuring in either.
May 18th 2012 @ 10:08am
Justin2 said | May 18th 2012 @ 10:08am | Report comment
Even NSW supporters would acknowledge its an area that TPN has to improve. Its pretty well known isnt it…
May 18th 2012 @ 10:14am
kingplaymaker said | May 18th 2012 @ 10:14am | Report comment
What period do those stats come from? TPN when coming back from injury and off-form probably doesn’t have a great work-rate. What is the start and end date for those stats?
May 18th 2012 @ 10:24am
Justin2 said | May 18th 2012 @ 10:24am | Report comment
All matches played this year KPM, bar the Brumbies one for TPN as he was KOd after 30mins.
How many matches has TPN missed? In the season so far I didnt see many holes except for his injury in the Brumbies game…
May 18th 2012 @ 11:33am
kingplaymaker said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:33am | Report comment
That makes sense. He has been coming back from a string of injuries so it’s not suprising if he isn’t at his best.
I wouldn’t say TPN is at his best now, but that when he is he is a better choice than Moore who lacks impact in the scrum and loose despite speed and a high skill level.
I wouldn’t say there’s miles between them or between the props anyway. They should all be put into competition and whoever plays best starts. There are plenty of opportunities to do so in the June tests.
Are Justin and Justin2 the same then?
May 18th 2012 @ 11:39am
Markus said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:39am | Report comment
The problem there is that you fall into the Elsom trap, picking a player whose peak ability is a 10, but is only in that form 10% of the time, and that is only when he actually is fit enough to play.
I’d much prefer the consistency brought by someone who is an 8-9 in ability 100% of the time.
“Are Justin and Justin2 the same then?”
Now that you mention it, I’ve never seen both of them in the same place at the same time…
May 18th 2012 @ 11:56am
kingplaymaker said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Markus I don’t think even TPN’s biggest detractors would compare his underperformance to that of Elsom….having said that, I have often criticised Elsom but in fairness to him I must admit he looked ok against the Brumbies.
He hasn’t hit top form yet, but he has been ok.
May 18th 2012 @ 12:19pm
Justin2 said | May 18th 2012 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Yes one and the same lads. One is from my iphone. I got sick of being moderated at one stage so jumped on the “2″.
Again I am not sure what “injuries” he is coming back from. He’s played 8 matches this year so doesnt sound very injury plagued to me. He just doesnt have the work rate.
May 18th 2012 @ 12:21pm
kingplaymaker said | May 18th 2012 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
You resisted the temptation to argue contradictory things with almost the same name.
He was only just back onstage at the RWC and so this is his first real run since last Super season.
May 18th 2012 @ 12:28pm
Justin2 said | May 18th 2012 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
Geez you are reaching if you are blaming injury from last year on his work rate this year I think KPM.
I love your determination in sticking to your position but the facts are there in front of you, just accept that Moore has a superior work rate to TPN. It wont kill you
May 18th 2012 @ 12:37pm
kingplaymaker said | May 18th 2012 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
TPN was injured all last Tri-nations and before, and rushed in for a few RWC matches, but didn’t look recovered and so this is his first real spell back from that injury….
May 18th 2012 @ 1:23pm
Justin2 said | May 18th 2012 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
And he needs to lift his work rate to that of Stephen Moore’s who is the best hooker in the country
May 21st 2012 @ 3:45am
Ben S said | May 21st 2012 @ 3:45am | Report comment
Cheers Justin.
–
‘Moore who lacks impact in the scrum and loose despite speed and a high skill level.’
Nobody would accuse Moore of being fast.
May 18th 2012 @ 2:50pm
Jerry said | May 18th 2012 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
KPM, if you discount TPN’s stats when he’s coming back from injury you’d have to discount his entire career!
May 18th 2012 @ 4:18pm
Justin2 said | May 18th 2012 @ 4:18pm | Report comment
LOL Jerry – imagine if it was Hugh McMenimen!
May 18th 2012 @ 8:48am
Markus said | May 18th 2012 @ 8:48am | Report comment
Focusing on the set piece first and foremost, the front row would be Robinson, Moore, Palmer, with Kepu covering both sides from the bench. Robinson needs to get his overall workrate back up to scratch though.
In the extended squad I would take Alexander over Slipper. Both have been about equal in terms of their scrummaging (inconsistent), which I put down to both trying to cover both sides of the scrum. But Alexander has the higher workrate in general play of the two (probably the highest of any Aus prop), so gets the nod there.
Ruaidhri Murphy has Australian citizenship but doesn’t meet the IRB requirement of three year residency or an Australian parent/grandparent. He does look a good prospect though.
May 18th 2012 @ 10:53am
Bigbaz said | May 18th 2012 @ 10:53am | Report comment
Front rows at this level are only as good as the locks who are pushing them.I feel at times our locks are bludging (look at Sharpe a few years ago,couldn’t push a wheel down a hill though he puts in now)
May 18th 2012 @ 11:13am
Markus said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Exactly, it is the whole ‘sum of the parts’ cliche.
Kafer once provided a detailed breakdown of the massacre the Wallabies received from the English scrum back in the day (2005?).
It showed that in nearly every scrum, the lock combination of Sharpe and McMeniman fractured well before the front row eventually caved.
Brad Thorn was a fantastic scrummaging lock, as was Bakkies, the latter publicly responding to questions on Smit’s weakness at prop by stating that so long as Smit stayed up, he would keep him from going backward.
May 18th 2012 @ 11:28am
jeznez said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:28am | Report comment
The bad days of the loose second row bind – can’t believe we continued looking at that for about eight years after all other nations had consigned the theory to the scrap heap.
Sharpe has had some bad leg positioning at scrum time over the years, Thorn and Bakkies were great. Cannot underestimate the value of a big unit who wants to push.
As a front rower when you have that power coming from behind your options blossom. Suddenly all you need to do is keep your back straight and transfer the power onto your opponent. Your own technique lets you focus that drive into the exact channel you want and suddenly you are going forward at a rate of knots.
As the dust clears and you stand roaring over your opponent – somewhere in the back of your mind the lyrics are churning “I’m walking on sunshine, wooooah……..and don’t it feel good!”
May 18th 2012 @ 11:15am
peterlala said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:15am | Report comment
Jez, good story. I wish the great Wallaby Phil Kearns would explain what happens in the front row instead of telling jokes. And i use the word…wrongly.
May 18th 2012 @ 11:26am
Justin2 said | May 18th 2012 @ 11:26am | Report comment
Peter I think the problem is Kearns doesnt actually know as much as he should. It staggers me how little information he provides on scrums throughout a match and Kafer often seems to be the one to give some sort of analysis.
May 18th 2012 @ 6:55pm
Bakkies said | May 18th 2012 @ 6:55pm | Report comment
Helps that Kafer is a qualified coach (and should be coaching). Kearns is just an armchair pundit these days