Mark Ella’s greatest Wallaby performance
By Frank O'Keeffe, 21 May 2012 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- Australia rugby, David Campese, Mark Ella, Rugby Union, wallabies
“My Wallaby friends say that, well though he played on the 1984 tour, Mark’s finest game for Australia was against Argentina in 1983, when he shut Hugo Porta out of the game,” said Gareth Edwards in the book 100 Great Rugby Players.
A fellow Roarer recently supplied me with a good quality DVD of the second Test between Australia and Argentina from 1983.
I was excited to review this Test and compare it with some of Mark Ella’s previous great performances.
I also wanted to see how it compared to Michael Lynagh’s 1993 second Test performance against France (which will be the topic of my next Roar article).
My first impression, before I finished the DVD, and before I could properly critique Ella’s performance was this: it’s just great watching Mark Ella. Whether this is or isn’t his best ever performance, he’s just so entertaining.
I’ve never seen a Mark Ella performance where everything goes right. There’s always a bad kick here and there, a risky play that doesn’t quite come off, or a random drop goal that shouldn’t be attempted.
But it never matters much. For every play that breaks down, there are nine or ten that are breathtaking. He’s just so exciting.
Quite often it seems as though he’s engaged the opposition the second he’s touched the ball, as if he’s playing on the gain line almost, and before he’s tackled, the ball is gone.
Everything moves so fast, and he always there to support.
There really was nothing like watching Mark Ella play rugby. It’s a great shame that he retired at 25.
The first opportunity Ella had to run the ball in this game, he ran down a large blind-side, was taken down in a tackle, but not before passing the ball on the outside to Michael Hawker, who in turn passed the ball to Peter Grigg.
Grigg was ankle-tapped before he could get a good pass to Poidevin. But Australia must have gained 35 meters the first instance they tried to run the ball.
It’s so exciting watching Ella at five-eighth. You have the sense something is on all the time.
After this play broke down, Argentina had the scrum feed. The ball came to Porta, who attempted to run around Ella. Ella herded him into a tackle.
The Australian forwards ran over Porta, and the ball came out on Australia’s side.
Ella kicked the ball cross-field to Brendan Moon for the first Australian try.
The first try was an example of poor defence by Argentina. All their backs stood up in the line in a compressed formation. They perhaps thought that Ella would run the ball in most instances, and not kick.
Shortly after Australia’s first try, there was another attempted play where Ella threw a cut-out pass to Slack, who found Grigg cutting back on the inside. He found Poidevin on the inside, who fired a bullet pass to Campese (it should have been a soft pass), and Campese dropped the ball.
But watching the fast ball movement and interplay was tremendously exciting. Once again Australia made good territory with running good lines, quick passing, and constant support.
The saddest part of this game is that it isn’t remembered for Mark Ella’s performance. It’s remembered for a controversial penalty try that Welsh referee Clive Norling awarded the Australians.
Hugo Porta committed another mistake. He attempted an up and under that went far too deep. Campese was at fullback and launched an exciting counterattack. Ella supported Campo on the inside. Ella was running out of space, but Poidevin was on the inside.
The ball was deliberately knocked down by the Argentine flanker Petersen.
The knock down was disappointing, because Campese launched the counter-attack from inside the Australian 22, and there’s a possibility (though not a certainty), that Australia could have scored a length-of-the-field try.
Even sadder was that while Norling’s decision didn’t affect the result of the game, it seemed to affect the Argentinians, especially Porta. Porta seemed pressured to try something extraordinary, and often got caught out by Ella.
Shortly after, Porta missed two penalty kick attempts. One hit the right upright post, the second hit the left upright post. I felt bad for Porta, because there was such a slim margin between success and failure, and Argentina were never in the game after those misses.
Australia scored their third try shortly after this. Argentina were defending their line, 5m out, and they had a scrum feed. Porta again tried to sidestep Ella, but Ella caught him in a tackle. The Australian forwards rushed over Porta’s body, and received the scrum feed for going forward.
Gordon Bray noted, “Porta getting his side into trouble there.”
Trevor Allan added: “Most uncharacteristic of Porta there, he’s usually very safe back in that area. He might be a little bit rattled at the moment.”
Australia scored immediately from this scrum. The halfback Parker had his pass disrupted, and Ella received bad ball that landed around his shoes.
Ella had Porta on his right, and another Argentine player on his left, both rushing up at him. Ella ran sideways and skirted a chip-kick into the right corner, and Brendan Moon scored again in exactly the same way as before.
While the first try Australia scored didn’t impress me much because of Argentina’s poor positional play, the third try did impress me. Ella had to execute it under pressure, and the kick was perfectly weighted.
Ella’s chip-kick reminded me a little bit of his “around the body pass” against Andy Hadan in 1980. Ella had no where to go, but he squeezed out a good chip kick.
The two tries Brendan Moon scored were from Mark Ella kicks, after Hugo Porta was tackled with the ball by Mark Ella.
Immediately after halftime, Ella almost constructed another try with a delicate chip-kick. That would have been the third try off an Ella kick.
Australia’s fourth try came when Ella stepped inside the Argentine flanker, Petersen, and gained about 10 metres.
The ball was quickly recycled, and the ball came to Chris Roche on the wing, who bustled over the try line for his first international try.
Australia’s final try was incredible.
Late in the game Ella intercepted the ball. Ella was running along the sideline, when Hugo Porta came across in cover to cut him off.
Ella lofted a hopeful pass in the air which Campese grabbed, shooting past one player in an explosion of pace, and then goose-stepping past the Argentine fullback to score a try.
This was a remarkable try.
Despite Australia scoring two tries due to Porta overplaying his game, I should give Hugo Porta some credit. Towards the end of the game he kicked a beautiful drop goal. And then later he constructed a try which can be attributed almost solely to him.
Porta decided to run down the blind, and was confronted by the Australian hooker Ross. Porta waved the ball about, fended off Ross, executed a scissors pass to the Argentine wing Campo (yes the Argentine wing’s name was ‘Campo’), who then passed to the Argentine second rower Milano, who scored.
What was impressive about Porta was the try came about almost solely through individual football skills, not by directing a backline. It was very impressive that one man could just turn it on like that, when he felt like it.
But this day belonged to Mark Ella. Australia launched several exciting attacks and counter-attacks. Two of Australia’s tries came from two Mark Ella cross-field kicks, the second of which was extremely difficult to execute.
The fourth try came from Ella stepping inside the Argentine flanker, and taking the ball up several meters beyond the gain line. And the last one can only be attributed to the telepathic understanding between Ella and Campese.
This was a fantastic game of rugby. It was incredibly exciting to watch, and I don’t mind saying I watched this DVD more than once.
So this begs the question: Was it Mark Ella’s best Test-level performance?
I think there are three contenders for Mark Ella’s greatest Wallaby performance. They are in matches against New Zealand (3rd Test 1980), Argentina (2nd Test 1983) and Ireland (1984).
The New Zealand Test was a phenomenal game because Australia’s backs blitzed the All Black backs in the first 20 minutes, and the game looked to be over by half time. It’s perhaps most famous for Ella’s “around the body pass” against Andy Haden.
The Test against Ireland was Ella’s most important Test he played in, because Australia would have lost that game without Ella. Australia had bombed three tries early on in the Test.
There was a forward pass from Poidevin, a bombed pushover try (the ball squirted out at the last minute), and Campese missed a try after running onto a clever chip kick from Ella.
Then Ireland gained momentum with 10 minutes to go. They had the lead. Ella kept Australia in the game with two clever drop-goals, and a try that highlights all that’s wonderful about Ella’s support play.
I think if I had to rate the performances, the Ireland match would be first, followed by that against Argentina and then the New Zealand game.
While this column is mostly concerned with the performance of Mark Ella against Hugo Porta, I have to briefly touch upon the brilliant performance of David Campese in this game.
This was Campo’s first Test at fullback for Australia.
It’s often forgotten that his preferred position was fullback, and that prior to his debut for Australia in 1982 on the wing, he had been a fullback in the Canberra club competition, and also for the Australian U21s.
The above mentioned controversial penalty-try resulted from a Campese counter-attack that begun in his own 22.
Later in the first half, Campese launched a counterattack shortly after Porta’s second missed penalty kick, where he beat three Argentinean players, before the play fell apart.
Shortly after halftime, Porta missed another penalty attempt to the left.
Campese caught the ball and shaped to kick, but then decided to run the ball. He then proceeded to beat no less than five Argentines! When he ran past the 22, he then launched a kick downfield that did not go into touch.
Australia’s chasing was good, and the Argentine fullback was forced to boot the ball into touch – a gain of almost the entire field!
Gordon Bray exclaimed: ‘He’s got to be the hottest prospect in any football code in Australia at the moment, this young man.’
But the best was yet to come. The try Campese scored was given a standing ovation from the crowd.
I think you’d have a hard time naming 10 better tries in Australian rugby history, to be honest.
Roger Gould was injured for this game, but Campese made such an impression on Trevor Allan that the Wallaby legend exclaimed:
‘“This guy is really and truly extraordinary at bringing the house down.
“His performance today really indicates that he really is a fullback purely and simply… But it’s going to make the Australian selectors think just what they’re going to do. Personally I don’t know what they’re going to do, because with Roger Gould fit, how could you leave Roger Gould out, but how can you leave Campese out?”
Mark Ella and David Campese were the best players on the field in this Test, by far!
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May 21st 2012 @ 7:28am
stillmissit said | May 21st 2012 @ 7:28am | Report comment
Ella was a freak and Campese was a legend even before he finished playing. Campese a full back – er! No… I watched him play a few games at that position (granted later in his career) and he was so tackle shy that were it not for his speed and kicking the opposition would have run in a few tries a game. The 89 Sydney test against the Lions where his brain snapped, is so well known and a quick look at Wiki lays out the fullback nightmares he suffered and also the times he shone there.
I wonder if anyone looks at these old videos for inspiration or the occasional move to dust off.
May 21st 2012 @ 3:01pm
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 21st 2012 @ 3:01pm | Report comment
Campo was a better wing than fullback.
I just noted Allan’s comments because there was a brief period where Campo challenged Gould for the position. That was the game Roger Gould saw and felt a ‘chill wind’. Campese was incredible in that game. So incredible that Gould, who was a certain pick before that, was no longer so certain.
Interesting fact of history: Bob Dwyer wanted Glen Ella against New Zealand in 1983. Gould was still injured, and he wanted Ella over Campo at fullback. He didn’t get his way.
Campo had a good some good experiences at fullback in the mid 80s, but his tour to New Zealand in 1986 was pretty much the nail in the coffin. In the first Test he threw that pass that almost cost Australia the game. In the second Test he dropped some high balls.
In 1987 he was criticized for his positional play against France, and for letting the ball bounce in the last few minutes. The messy try the French scored came from a down field kick etc.
1988 he was fullback in the first Test against New Zealand, and it was a ‘knock-out victory to John Kirwan’, as Gordon Bray said. Andrew Leeds played fullback in that second Test and he was incredible… a very gutsy, albeit very safe, fullback. Leeds almost never came into the line and joined an attack, but he was extremely secure.
1990 Campo played fullback in New Zealand and didn’t have much success, but that was more because of the overall team performances in the first two Tests. What New Zealand did to John Kirwan in the second half of the 1991 World Cup Semi Final – throw the ball to him and hope for a miracle – is what Australia did to Campese in 1990. It didn’t work. I do remember seeing a clip of John Kirwan burning Campo off for a try in the 1st Test.
Really it’s only against New Zealand that Campo didn’t play great against as fullback, I guess. In 1986, when Gould was injured, and before Australia went to New Zealand, Campo was the guaranteed fullback, with six tries from four Tests! But I think after 1986 there was a sense Campese wasn’t that safe under the high ball.
May 21st 2012 @ 4:51pm
Justin2 said | May 21st 2012 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
Frank – I tried to find where I could get some older Test on DVD. I didnt have much luck. Any thoughts?
May 21st 2012 @ 5:00pm
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 21st 2012 @ 5:00pm | Report comment
A fellow Roarer taped the two Tests for me. That’s where I got the two Tests. I was ridiculously happy to have finally seen Lynagh’s 1993 performance against France, and I was not disappointed.
In the past I’ve purchased DVD’s from the ABC headquarters (I’m serious)… which shows what a sad rugby fan I really am. They have Five Nations Tests from the 70s though! It’s all very expensive, however.
Fox Sports replayed every major Test from all the World Cup’s last year, which was handy!
May 21st 2012 @ 7:46am
sheek said | May 21st 2012 @ 7:46am | Report comment
Frank, great stuff as usual. The memories come flooding back.
If current fans want to know how exciting Ella was, think Cooper on mental steroids, but smarter!!!
I recall two tries in the north-east corner of the SCG in successive years – 1980 & 81 – & I was lucky enough to be sitting in this section & witnessed both tries as the play came towards the corner post nearest me.
The first try was also Ella’s debut test, 1st test of 1980. With the scores locked 9-9 late in the game, Ella looped around Hawker, sliced through the gap, unloaded to O’Connor who passed to Mick Martin as he was tackled short of the line. Martin dived in the corner for the winning try.
The second try came in the 2nd test against France the following year, about midway through the second half, I recall. The same 4 players were involved, although Martin wasn’t required on this occasion, suggesting the guys had fine-tuned the move! Again, Ella looped around Hawker & passed immediately to O’Connor, who sliced through a big gap & raced about 20 metres to the corner post himself, not needing Martin.
Stillmissit,
I consider myself privileged to have watched Campese in the match in which he “announced” himself – Aussies U/21s versus Kiwis U/21s. Footage accompanied Campo’s first Roar article about 6 weeks ago.
Sometimes it pays to go into the ground early. The U/21s match was a curtain raiser to the Wallabies-Scotland 2nd test. While most guys were still drinking at the Olympic, or Captain Cook, or some other pub nearby, I got to see a treat.
The Aussies won 32-12 scoring 5 tries to one. Campo scored 2 tries, & had a hand in another two. Those of us watching the game wondered where the hell he had come from.
That night, he was selected for the Wallabies tour of NZ. He was 19.
May 21st 2012 @ 3:33pm
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 21st 2012 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
The try against France in 1981 was even better than the loop play against New Zealand in 1980. I loved it because Ella threw a dummy and confused two players. He knew exactly when to let that ball go to O’Connor.
May 21st 2012 @ 7:53am
sheek said | May 21st 2012 @ 7:53am | Report comment
Indeed, Campo will turn 50 this October…..
May 21st 2012 @ 10:12am
Sam Taulelei said | May 21st 2012 @ 10:12am | Report comment
Another great piece Frank.
Keep churning them out.
I actually rate Mark Ella’s performance against NZ in the first test in 1984 as better than the Bledisloe decider in 1980. He really had that test match on a string for Australia, much to the chagrin of Kiwi supporters.
May 21st 2012 @ 3:31pm
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 21st 2012 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
*rushes to DVD library*
May 21st 2012 @ 10:19am
Johnno said | May 21st 2012 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Im going to say this out loud Mark Ella was overrated.
Give me Dan Carter, any day over Mark Ella.
-Tactical kicking DC so easy it is not funny, error rate and clinical and professional play DC so easy, tackling easily DC, running game and attacking the line DC, goal kicking so easily DC, controlling the match DC, tactical understanding and awarness of rugby union and ability to control a match DC
fittness and strength and conditioning levels DC have you seen the old wallaby matches DC plays the sport of rugby union at a much faster pace and is fitter Mark Ella could not keep up he is so amateur in his play compered to Dan carter who plays so much more professionally in atitude and in fitness levels and it shows, and DC is so much better coached than Mark Ella Grahame Henry and video technology,.
And big match experience Mark Ella has not even played in a world cup DC has played in 3.
And stamina Mark Ella only had the ability able to last 25 DC is still kicking and looking great and he is turning 30 this year and is looking as professional as ever. No contest DC wins all the way on every level.
Yet the wallaby propaganda machine don’t tell you that, they just tell you lies and spin.
May 21st 2012 @ 11:09am
Bill Chapman said | May 21st 2012 @ 11:09am | Report comment
I presume this is intended to be deliberately provocative? It is always dangerous to compare players from different eras but to compare between players from the amateur and professional periods is doubly dangerous. Ella, like Campese was quite simply outrageously talented and gifted. There was nothing manufactured ( or indeed coached) about his play and until Farr-Jones came along he was not blessed with great halfbacks. Carter is clearly in the ‘greats’ class but equally enjoys the benefits of being a professional full time player.
To suggest that not having played in a RWC reduces Ella’s relevance demeans all players who preceded the pro era – including some great NZ players.
Without doubt Mark Ella must rate as one of the most exciting players I have ever witnessed – someone who bought the crowd to it’s feet and yet who was the embodiment of humility.
Rugby tragic
May 21st 2012 @ 1:22pm
Johnno said | May 21st 2012 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
Bill was it deliberately provocative. I’ll put some anolagies to answser that question with various anologies and conspricies
-Did man really walk on the moon, what really happened to JFK, what really happened to harold holt,.
-But I can confirm when it comes to rugby i like being a little bit provocative but also honest, I have noticed i am not the only one on the roar who can be like that but those will remian nameless.
-I stand by dan carter being a better rugby player and 5/8 for the reasons i have given, and i think one can compare eras and be very open Bill Chapman when making assumptions. I am a rugby tragic too Bill love rugby and so happy the sport is going global via sevens Olympics and other expansions of 15 a side game.
May 21st 2012 @ 12:00pm
Riccardo said | May 21st 2012 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
You’re a brave man Johnno.
Ella was incredible mate. The most naturally gifted footballer I’ve ever seen.
People wax lyrical about his ability to run a flat backline on attack or his ability in support or his great passing game but for me it was the raw talent. As Frank has alluded to everytime he had the ball something was going to happen. He did make mistakes but his ability to read the game was ahead of his time.
Your comparison with DC is a little unfair. There is little doubt that Carter is the best pivot in the world. It may be fair to argue DC has a better kicking game. But the comparison comes unstuck when you realise we quite possibly never saw Ella at his best given he retired at 25.
I love the All Blacks Johnno and I rate Carter highly but let me just say that when Ella retired Rugby was done a disservice.
Great read Frank.
May 21st 2012 @ 12:13pm
Johnno said | May 21st 2012 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
I am a brave man Riccardo and I stand by everything I say, Dan Carter is better than Mark Ella for the reasons I said and I am sick to death of the Ella fans who stand by Ella though thick and thin and not look at the facts. DC is better than Ella for the reasons I have given, and the sheer fact that people get akward critiscinng Ella shows that not all is right.
Like England rugby fans dare not confront the fact that Wilkinson was overrated, and big aggressive Butch James cleaned him up big time int the 2007 world cup final. And Wilkinson is overrated his tactical kicking game and territory games is woeful he is like Morne steyn just can kick goals, but Wilkinson is a quality defender to like DC, but DC is the no 1 5/8 I have seen and i would pick Carlos spencer and Merthens ahead of Ella too, maybe not Lynagh but i rate larkham ahead of Mark Ella too.
May 21st 2012 @ 1:14pm
Riccardo said | May 21st 2012 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Sorry if I offended you Johnny. The brave remark was tongue-in-cheek and referred to the fact this is a principally Australian forum where your affrontery may invite spiteful retribution.
Wilkinson was a class act when he was younger Johnno. He could run with ball in hand and was an able distributor. The misnoma about him being only a proficient kicker stems mainly from that RWC win, injuries, and his subsequent decline. Make no mistake about it; he was good. Your 2007 comparison does you a disservice. Wilkinson’s star was waning, and you have stated yourself he was a gutsy defender. There is no shame in coming off 2nd best to Butch James in his prime. You’re right though; nowhere near as good as Ella.
Carlos had some of Ella’s qualities ironically but he wasn’t even in the same stratosphere and I am frankly surprised you would use him as an example.
Mehrtens and Lynagh are great kicking five-eigths but not the visionary playmakers that Ella was.
Larkham is a creditable example though. Not similar to Ella at all but he also had that indefineable quality which enabled him to range languidly. A good reader of the game and a great kicker to boot. IMHO the Wallabies’ 2nd geatest pivot of the modern era. Ella was still better though.
I also stand by what I say Johnno. We never saw Ella fulfil his potential and the game is poorer for it, or perhaps blessed by his short tenure.
It’s all debateable after all
May 21st 2012 @ 1:25pm
Johnno said | May 21st 2012 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
So riccardo i take it you rate Butch James highly or you did in 2007 good to see, i have always rated Butch James in his prime i thought he was 2nd best 5/8 in the world in 2007 2nd only to 2007, Butch was strong, aggressive, good defender, good tackler and handy runner and got the teams he played in on the front foot.
May 21st 2012 @ 3:30pm
Jerry said | May 21st 2012 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
Just to stir the pot – Carter was IRB Player of the Year in 2005 aged 24. Many argue that, as good as he’s been, he’s never quite attained those heights again. Who’s to say Ella would have gotten better?
And if Carter had retired in 2005….etc.
May 21st 2012 @ 2:36pm
Ash said | May 21st 2012 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
You’re joking mate Carter’s not even in the same class.
May 21st 2012 @ 3:38pm
Jerry said | May 21st 2012 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
That’s an absurdly over the top statement, Ash. You can argue Ella is a better 10 than Carter, fine, but to argue that Carter’s not even in the discussion? You’re just making yourself look silly.
May 21st 2012 @ 3:22pm
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 21st 2012 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
To be honest, if I were going to pick the best XV of players from 1980-2012, I’d have Mark Ella in my side, and probably Dan Carter on the bench, with Porta just missing out.
It certainly doesn’t bother me that someone would say Carter is better than Ella. Carter and McCaw are like McGrath and Warne. I long for the day when they’re gone because I sincerely think Australia will get the Bledisloe Cup back when it happens.
Dan Carter’s performance against the Lions in 2005 was one of the most incredible dominant displays I’ve ever seen. I know New Zealanders who know far more than I do who say it was better than Loveridge against the Lions in 1983.
If by better football skills you mean individual brilliance, then Carter was better than Ella. The Hugo Porta try I mentioned above is an example of individual brilliance – a flash of the ball, the dummy, the scissors pass, etc. Ella was more about running straight and giving his backs opportunities.
Ella has it all over Carter in terms of constructive ability – directing the backs, running a backline, giving them space and time, good service… Every player who ever played outside Mark Ella was in awe of how fast the ball travelled through his hands. Paul McLean was one, against Scotland in 1982, who later remarked he couldn’t believe Mark Ella’s hands.
Ella was better at summing up a situation instantly, and he could change his mind very quickly. He might be wanting to run the ball, but then see something else was on, and put through a kick. The drop goals he scored against Ireland came from plays he wanted to try, didn’t come off, so he just decided to go for a drop goal.
Ella has a history of attempting some really ugly drop goals, but one of the best kept secrets in Australian rugby history is this:
- Paul McLean (30 Tests) – 4 field-goals
- Mark Ella (25 Tests) – 8 field goals
‘I remember playing for Randwick against Paramatta and I kicked three field goals in the first five minutes just to annoy them. I kicked eight field goals in my Test career. I wasn’t recognized for it, but they were decent field goals.’ – Mark Ella
Did Carter attempt a drop goal in 2007? In fact Carter hardly ever attempts drop goals. Ella nearly stole the 1984 Bledisloe Cup with a 40 metres drop attempt that missed by about a metre.
Carter’s tactical kicking… it’s definitely better than Ella’s, although much like Campese’s tackling, people go overboard when they talk about it. I recall great Ella kicks, just as I recall great Campo tackles. Neither will be remembered (or should be remembered) for either, though.
However, Carter’s kicking is a teency-bit overrated. The last tactical kick he made in the 2010 Sydney Test was brilliant. And there are times where he put Australia under pressure with his kicking. But he doesn’t think tactically like Grant Fox or Michael Lynagh did.
There really isn’t much between them. I don’t think Carter’s been at his peak the last few years, and yet he’s still the world’s best flyhalf by far, and even when he doesn’t play his best, he makes an awesome impact on the All Blacks performance. He’s NZ’s best 10 by far!
May 21st 2012 @ 3:30pm
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 21st 2012 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
The first Bledisloe Test of 1984 is a good example of Ella changing his mind.
Ella called a play that the All Black defence immediately recognized. Ella realized it wasn’t on, so he attempted a cross-field kick to Moon, who scored. How many tries did Moon score from Ella kicking across field?
May 21st 2012 @ 3:37pm
Frank O'Keeffe said | May 21st 2012 @ 3:37pm | Report comment
Oh and while I think Carter was a better defender… not by much! Watch Mark Ella’s covering tackle that led to a Campese intercept in the 2nd Bledisloe Test of 1982.
The only time I thought Ella’s defence could be better was when he made the stupid decision to go high on Mark Shaw. You just don’t go high on Mark Shaw.
May 21st 2012 @ 1:38pm
sheek said | May 21st 2012 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
Johnno,
The moon walk was actually conducted in a gravity free underground hangar in Arizona. Armstrong, Aldrin & Collins were provided with an “unlimited” bank account access for the remainder of their lives in order to buy their silence & compliance.
Apollo 11, & none of the other Apollo missions, ever went anywhere near the moon.
JFK was actually a closet communist. His death was faked & he was spirited away to Cuba where he spent his last days cavorting with beautiful young Cuban-Spanish women. He & Fidel Castro became lifelong friends.
BTW, Elvis also was spirited away to Cuba, where he was promised sugar related products for the remainder of his lfe. And beautiful young Cuban-Spanish women to cavort with.
Harold Holt didn’t want to be married to Zara anymore. He swam out to a Chinese sub which took him back to Shanghai. Holt eventually ended up in a Shang-Ri-La type of resort home near the Tibetan mountains, whereby he was provided with 20 new virgins every year for the remainder of his life. The Chinese had also discovered a viagra-like product decades before the west.
Mark Ella didn’t really play those 25 tests for the Wallabies 1980-84. In a wonderful piece of mischief, Glen played the entire famous 1984 year in place of Mark. Back in 1982 & 83, it was actually Mark’s lookalike distant cousin Brian who captained the Wallabies.
Johnno, I trust these revealing facts will put your mind at ease……….
May 21st 2012 @ 1:57pm
Johnno said | May 21st 2012 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
Sheek i love that wisdom very enlightening sir. I had some theories on them but your theories on these issues are far more exciting, especially the moon landing and loved the JFK and Holt ones.
They also say Paul Mcartney is not the real Paul Mcartney and had a car crash along time ago and some say this was why he didn’t seem to upset at the time of John Lennon’s sudden passing, and love the Elvis theory too he could still be alive in Cuba as we speak or should i say write.
Good work sheek . Maybe your right maybe it was Glen all along Sheek on that Slam tour. But if only it were true , maybe you have provided that truth sheek,
May 21st 2012 @ 2:09pm
Uncle Argyle said | May 21st 2012 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
Nice read. For me I reckon 84 against the Irish was his best. I am really looking forward to the Lynagh article as I also thought the 93 Paris test was his best.
May 21st 2012 @ 4:18pm
sheek said | May 21st 2012 @ 4:18pm | Report comment
Frank,
Mark Ella is the best Aussie #10 I’ve seen since in the past 40 years. Followed by Michael Lynagh, Steve Larkham & Paul McLean in that order.
Dan Carter is the best Kiwi #10 I’ve seen, followed by Grant Fox & Andrew Merhtens in that order.
Naas Botha is the best Saffie #10 I’ve seen, followed by Henry Honiball & Joel Stransky. Botha won 4 player of the year awards. The next best is two, shared by Uli Schmidt, Bryan Habana, Fourie du Preez & Schalk Burger jnr.
Hugo Porta is the best Argie #10 I’ve seen, ahead of Felipe Contepomi.
I think Jo Maso was the best ever French #10, but poorly used by them, followed by Thierry Lacroix.
I would rank Jonny Wilkinson the best Pommie #10, ahead of Rob Andrew.
Wales have had several geniuses in the #10 shirt. I would rank the best as Barry John, Jonathon Davies & Phil Bennett in that order.
The best for Scotland has been John Rutherford & Ollie Campbell for Ireland.
I don’t like cross-comparing players in rugby because each country tends to have different opinions on what makes a player great.
May 21st 2012 @ 4:48pm
Justin2 said | May 21st 2012 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
Henry Honiball – what a blast from the past. A brilliant footballer!
May 21st 2012 @ 8:00pm
Sprigs said | May 21st 2012 @ 8:00pm | Report comment
Why hasn’t anybody mentioned Monsieur Le Drop “Pierre Albaladejo” ?
As a treat for you all, here is a short movie showing him in action against the All Blacks in 1961.
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/france-vs-all-blacks-1961
Comparing is so difficult.
Mark Ella is certainly a great. By the way, his book Running Rugby is excellent.
May 22nd 2012 @ 7:18am
Uncle Argyle said | May 22nd 2012 @ 7:18am | Report comment
I would have gone with Craig Charmers or Gregor Townsend over Rutherford.
May 21st 2012 @ 6:03pm
Johnno said | May 21st 2012 @ 6:03pm | Report comment
I have loved this thread as it has been really honest in deconstructing Mark Ella the myth vs reality someone has had the the courage to dare question Mark Ella. Mark ella is a greta player but for me i will still back Dan Carter sorry Ella fans out there. But mark Ella is certainly great my no 2 rank all time best I seen.
Lik earlier this year some people dared question Bradman’s brilliance and used Tnedulkar and lair and Viv richards as a guide. I wish more used Javed Miandad he was a star, played some great knocks when it coutned think 1992 cricket world cup final at Melbourne.
And I have always rated Brett kenny ahead of wally lewis and the stats prove it in rep footy too, head to head at origin , and for australia, and premierships.
May 21st 2012 @ 6:49pm
sheek said | May 21st 2012 @ 6:49pm | Report comment
Johnno,
I don’t know what stats you’re referring to re Lewis vs Kenny. Forget club football, the bigger the stage, the greater the occasion. Cometh the hour, cometh the man.
State of Origin is the greatest test of talent for a Kangaroo jumper.
Wally Lewis won 8 man of the match awards. Repeat – 8. Repeat again – 8!
The next best record is 4. Repeat – 4 – shared by Darren Lockyer, Allan Langer, Andrew Johns & Peter Sterling. Repeat again, the next best record is 4.
Brett Kenny won just one SOO man of the match award. Now, how many different ways would you like to distort these figures?
Lewis (8 MOTM) vs Kenny (1 MOTM). Lewis (8 MOTM) vs the next best (4 MOTM), shared by Lockyer, Langer, Johns & Sterling. Now, how would like to distort this???
Lewis made SOO. He won his first 6 MOTM awards in the first 13 SOOs – 1980 to 1985. That’s 6 out of 13.
That’s the little guy (Qld) beating the big guy (NSW). Otherwise, SOO wouldn’t have been any different from the previous 80 years! Repeat, otherwise, SOO wouldn’t have been any different from the previous 80 years.
Let me repeat that, Lewis MADE SOO. Kenny was a brilliant player, but he wasn’t as good as Lewis.
But I’ll tell you what I regret, what I really regret. I regret Lewis not playing in a Wallaby jersey at inside centre in the 1980s, slotting between Mark Ella at flyhalf & Michael O’Connor at outside centre.
I really regret that……….
May 21st 2012 @ 7:21pm
Johnno said | May 21st 2012 @ 7:21pm | Report comment
Sheek Cometh the hour cometh the man. I will give you some stats head to head Lewis V Kenny.
Very impressive stats on the King no doubt but I will give some equally compelling viewing on Lewis V Kenny.
Some inconvenient truths for wally lewis fans in the world especially in QLD
-Kenny VS Lewis State of origin head to head when kenny played 5/8 Kenny wins 8-4.
-Lewis in the prime of his career born october 1959 Kenny born march 1961.
-Facts
1982 Kangaroo tour ASHES/France tour Brett kenny starter in all 6 tests
-Brett Kenny starts every ASHES 3 test match series at 5/8 keeps wally lewis on the bench or not in the team and was the star of the 82 roo tour.. And on french tour plays 2 matches at centre.
-Wins 4 premierships with Parramatta 1981/82/83/1986 Man of the match 2 grand finals out of 4 in 82/83 and just beaten by peter stelring in 1986 grand final for man of the match.
-2 state of origin title 1985/86. And Brett kenny only started origin in 82 and retired in 87 from origin after a serious knee injury at start of 1998 season.
-Wally lewis played origin from the start 1980 to 1991 so had the chance to win more series titles and the early series were 1 off games too.
-1986 golden boot winner and player of the 1986 kangaroo tour at centre with wally lewis playing at centre
-Wally lewis said the the 3 players he only ever feared were Brett Kenny,Peter sterling, and Mal Meninga
-
May 21st 2012 @ 8:02pm
sheek said | May 21st 2012 @ 8:02pm | Report comment
Johnno,
Yeah, Lewis was benched on the 82 Kangaroos tour, as was Ella on the 81 Wallabies tour. So?
In 1983 to 89, Lewis began an uninterrupted run as Kangaroos five-eighth despite the presence of Kenny, who was often shifted to centre.
In 1986, Lewis was captain of a Kangaroos outfit that replicated the deeds of 1982, & actually surpassed them.
The head to head of Lewis & Kenny in SOO has been used before, but its influence is inconclusive. From 1985 to 87, NSW enjoyed a 6 to 4 advantage in SOO. Okay, so NSW were better for three few years but on balance Qld, with Lewis leading the way, were dominant between 1980-89, winning 18 to 9.
Johnno, let’s get this right – Kenny was very good, but Lewis was great!
Anyway, the post by Frank is about Mark Ella……….
May 21st 2012 @ 8:15pm
sheek said | May 21st 2012 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
johnno,
We could play around with the stats all night here.
Yes, in head to head clashes between Lewis & Kenny 1982-87, it was 4-7 in Kenny’s favour.
But it’s also interesting to note, Lewis won MOTM awards 3 times during this period to Kenny’s one.
One of Lewis’ MOTM awards was in a losing match – G2 1985.
Sure, we can play with the figures all we like, but eventually, you will be left clutching at straws. Lewis played more tests, was the second longest serving Kangaroos captain, & was named five-eighth in the team of the century.
If you know better, then you should be running rugby league…..!!!
May 21st 2012 @ 8:48pm
Johnno said | May 21st 2012 @ 8:48pm | Report comment
Lewis may of played more tests but in the ones that counted it was Kenny in my view.
82 roo tour ashes kenny started and starred, and kenny in 86 won the golden boot a grand final, and was the player of the roo tour playing at centre in 1986.
maybe i should run rugby league why not.
It’s a bit like this sheek with stats are misleading and the only thing that counts are the big game.
Case in point school days. My last year at school sheek and you will love this and get my message. i sense you are an old waverley college boy by some of your posts you have said. Well I went to cranbrook. And in 1997 waverley had a quality 1st 15 one of the best in the state, and played cranbrook in a pivotal match and important win to get CAS title, ironically neither team won the title outright as we suffered upsets as did they. They smashed us in the lower grades, 2nd 3rds and 4ths., so a lot more depth at wavelrey college and schools like joeys and kings in the GPS but come the 1st 15 in front of a capacity school crowd i played in a winning 1st 15 team and we won 5-3. A waverleyteam that had Ryan cross and Adam Frier, boy he was tough Ryan Cross to tackle but we somehow held him at bay. He was a super star school boy some say the most successful school boy career ever.
So sheek the big games are what counts, just ask the AB’S only anyone remembers in the last 10 years or even 35 years is the AB’S win in 2011 and maybe the 87 win, doesn’t matter if it is by 1 point or 20 the big matches is all that counts sheek, and gee i loved beating waverley college that day and begin part of a winning team
May 22nd 2012 @ 12:34pm
sheek said | May 22nd 2012 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
So Johnno,
You contradict yourself – “the big games are what counts”.
I can see you’re not going to allow good, practical common sense, & the majority of facts to cloud your preference for Kenny over Lewis.
May 22nd 2012 @ 12:44pm
Justin2 said | May 22nd 2012 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Johnno – I and many others will ALWAYS remember the All Black chokes of 99, 03 and 2007!!!
May 21st 2012 @ 8:32pm
Justin2 said | May 21st 2012 @ 8:32pm | Report comment
Premierships etc are not a criteria for greatness and nor do they make a player better. They were just fortunate to be in a great side.
Case in point Dermott Brereton v Tony Lockett – Lockett sh..its on Brereton as a player, he was just in a crap team. Not his fault.
May 21st 2012 @ 8:41pm
Johnno said | May 21st 2012 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
I don’t think so Justin , way too harsh on Breroton. Lockett’s grand final appearance in 1996 he was verl well contained by North Melbourne. And for sheer aggression and courage I have never in all my years watching AFL known a more gutsy coraugous and aggressive player other than Leigh Matthews.,
Breroton was absoloutly clobbered before the 1st bounce in 1989 grand final if that happened today the player would be sent off even the grand final maybe being called off. It was the bad old days and that stuff used to happen in AFL.
Brereton was heavily concussed and vomiting on the pitch yet hung in there and played a staring role in beating the 89 gelling side with albeit in the peak of his powers and having a great game the best team never to win a grand final that gelling team of 89.
So Breroton was a big game player more so than Lockett. And he was a a star in all the grand finals he played and was far moor inure prone than Lockett too yet was always up there come finals time.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:02am
Justin2 said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:02am | Report comment
No one could knock Lockett over Johnno. Brereton was a great player but not in the same league as Plugger.
The bloke was a freak and one of the best 5 players I have ever seen. In the same category as Matthews, Ablett and Carey.
And again it his nothing to do with how many premierships they were involved in.
May 21st 2012 @ 11:35pm
trakl said | May 21st 2012 @ 11:35pm | Report comment
I saw Ella on the 1984 Wallabies tour of the British Isles and he was pure magic. I haven’t seen anything other than brief footage of those games since but, if I were to close my eyes and try to conjure up images of the man in action, I remember above all the way he caught and passed the ball. Catching and passing! Doesn’t sound too complicated, does it? Was it his instincts that made his technique look sharper – and different – or the other way around? Who knows?
I don’t remember him as a superior athletic specimen but rather as someone with time and perception who made everyone around him look better.
As for Kenny v Lewis, here in England I think more fans would side with the former than the latter. Kenny made the no6 shirt his own on the immortal 1982 tour and pushed Lewis onto the replacements bench. (Although I remember one right to left spin pass on the run from Lewis at Central Park that drew gasps of astonishment from the crowd). Kenny’s performance before just short of 100000 at Wembley’s 1985 Challenge Cup final will never be forgotten and puts into the shade Lewis’ performances for Wakefield Trinity which did, however, inspire the best and best-named rugby league fanzine ever – Wally Lewis Is Coming…
Ella, Kenny, Lewis… blimey!
May 22nd 2012 @ 12:38pm
sheek said | May 22nd 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
trakl,
Keep in mind Lewis had a personality conflict with coach Frank Stanton in 1982. Stanton had problems with Lewis’s attitude, & he was lucky he had a more than able replacement in Kenny.
Personality clashes do happen in sport. But as I have tried to explain to Johnno, it is about the sum of each player’s career, not simply cherry-picking the bits we like here & there…..
May 21st 2012 @ 7:10pm
Jock M said | May 21st 2012 @ 7:10pm | Report comment
Forget about comparing Mark Ella and David Campesi with today’s players.
Two totally different games and in today’s debacle of a Rugby League replica both of these two gentlemen would have no space to show their magic.