Is this the end of the football salary cap?
Roar Guru By Midfielder, 22 May 2012 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
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Football Australia, in their National Competition Review, have suggested that they will be moving away from the salary cap towards a points based system.
Released on 21 May, FFA’s National Competition Review makes several suggestions as to possible competition changes.
On page 28, it states “A key outcome of the NCR was the introduction of a new Player Points System (PPS) to complement a Club Licensing framework. The PPS provides an opportunity to incentivise youth development, curb excessive player payments and limit the time and effort require to monitor and evaluate compliance by clubs.”
The report goes on to say that: “The PPS was preferred over a salary based cap system due to the high compliance costs such a framework would impose on Member Federations and an inability to simultaneously bring focus to player development.
The PPS is currently being tested by all Member Federations and may require some further adjustment”
I wonder how this would work and how the points are allocated. It is likely that Harry Kewell is worth more than Musti Amini, and therefore the scheme seems very subjective.
Overall, the Report provides some excellent suggestions, including the points system. There is some confusion over how players would be allocated points, but this could be done via a panel.
A point made in the report is that the scheme is a cost saver and would stop the cheating of the salary cap.
This could be an interesting debate: What someone like Lucas Neil is worth, as opposed to some kid from the state leagues would create some argument.
This seems like the way forward for football in Australia.
Will the other codes follow suit?
May 22nd 2012 @ 2:16am
Johnno said | May 22nd 2012 @ 2:16am | Report comment
Sounds messy already this points system. What needs to be of absolute urgent attention is the need for a national youth league, and a national 2nd division as was heavily pressured by the former top AFC head Bin Hammam.
But the A-league was too concerned about in my opinion helping NZ soccer who are not even in our confederation we are in Asia NZ is not . And Bin hammam was right and astute to be impatient with the A-leagues desire to help NZ football and build up the A-league there, when there teams would not even be eligible to play in the AFC asian cup.
Bin Hammams vision was for a Aussie 2nd division with promotion/relegation and Bin Hammam is very astute about that.
So yep a national promotion/relegation system must be a priority other nations in Asia have it and we have to match the funds and increase funding rapidly in Australian football to establish the 2nd division and compete.
May 22nd 2012 @ 2:33am
Michael said | May 22nd 2012 @ 2:33am | Report comment
a-league second division????
lol we are struggling to make the a-league itself big enough let alone worry about finding 8-10 other teams for the second division. But the problem is the second divsion will in itself take spectators/fans away from the first division which we can’t afford at the moment.
Also when discussing 2nd division temas you cant help but think temas like south melbourne,sydney united, sydney olympic, bonnirgg etc will be in consideration and wiht that comes the ethnic borders which the a-league has strived to separate itself from
tricky situations but it hink att he moment the a-league is not stable enough financially to consider a second division
May 22nd 2012 @ 6:52am
alxjones said | May 22nd 2012 @ 6:52am | Report comment
It’s interesting to see the FFA looking for reforms.
A points system however would be awfully volatile. Points would have to be reviewed once a year at the very least and a strong year by a handful of players at one club could push too many players out. Relegation/promotion would pull resources away form the top league but a second division would spread football’s appeal.
The question of if this could work in other codes is probably unlikely. AFL and league have very limited international expsoure so salary caps are possible because there are few options overseas. All their players can be plucked from the draft or reserve grades.
Football has to compete for players in an international market. Too many restrictions and limited opportunities for young players will push players overseas where they can make a living and accompany teams through promotion.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:28am
nordster said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:28am | Report comment
It’s great FFA acknowledge the flaws in the current system I agree. This move just heaps on more of the same rather than dealing with the principle flaw in the very idea of caps.
I am surprised that a one-time enterpreneur such as Frank Lowy would support such measures in principle. Sadly he may be more of a corporatist these days. In the broader economic sphere, they do seem to be siding more and more with the regulation mentality. Control over free enterprise. These themes are highly relevant in a sporting context IMO … More so even…
May 22nd 2012 @ 8:41am
The Cattery said | May 22nd 2012 @ 8:41am | Report comment
When I first read about this idea a couple of days ago, I thought it was an idea intended for the state leagues, across all the divisions, the reasoning being that in small clubs it’s very difficult to keep track of under the table cash payments.
At no stage did I think this idea was intended for the A-League.
I’ve held the view that the system that applies in the SPL could work here in Australia, something like 5 of your match-day 15 must be aged U20. This could apply across the whole list: a limit of 21 players, with 7 having to be U20 at the very start of the season (U18 top ups allowed at all times).
It then becomes a matter of debate as to whether you need a salary cap for the other 14 senior players on the list.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:04am
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
TC
What flaws do you identify in the PPS as it is currently outlined?
Why would you consider the SPL system to be superior?
(Note: I haven’t reviewed the SPL system, I’m purely drawing upon the information you have supplied)
May 22nd 2012 @ 12:45pm
The Cattery said | May 22nd 2012 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
I like the idea of forcing clubs to have young players on their list because:
1. they are cheaper, so there’s the financial benefit, but most importantly
2, it forces clubs to develop young players, and there’s no better way to develop young players, than having them out there playing senior football.
My personal belief is that youth leagues aren’t that great at developing elite players – if they have the talent, they are better off in senior teams.
May 22nd 2012 @ 2:21pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 22nd 2012 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
I don’t understand the fascination with “youth” in professional adult sporting competitions. What’s the evidence that teams are better with a lot of young kids running around?
My knowledge of AFL is poor in recent years so, maybe, you can provide details of the “average age” of the winning team in the past 10 AFL GFs? My gut-feeling is it would be around 25-26?
I’ve just reviewed the average age of the squads from Top 10 clubs in Europe this season (top 2 from EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, Europa Champs & UCL Champs). Note: I only included players, who played 10 games or more
Average ages of best squads in Europe:
Man City: 26
Man Utd: 27
BVB: 25
Bayern Munich: 26
Juventus: 28
Milan: 29
Real Madrid: 26
Barca: 27
Chelsea: 28
Athletico Madrid: 25
So, yes, we must encourage youth development but … 30% of the match day squad u20? I can’t see the justification.
May 22nd 2012 @ 7:09pm
jbinnie said | May 22nd 2012 @ 7:09pm | Report comment
Fuss- back in 1980 while at Brisbane Lions playing in the NSL there was an unwritten law that the run on team had to have at least 3 local-born players n the team. The reserve bench usually consisted of at least another 2 locals. The team did not win the championship but from memory finished a creditable 5th and when beating West Adelaide in the Philips Cup Final in Canberra there were 4 in the run on team and another 2 took the field as substitutes late in the game.Mind you the “reserve” team were a group of outstanding young players who from memory finished second in the local competition and about seven of it’s players were given regular outings in the NSL.
ps This also helped in the season’s budget as the “kids ” were on a lower wage structure than first team “regulars”. jb
May 23rd 2012 @ 12:43pm
hutcho said | May 23rd 2012 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
There was an aricle about this in the newcastle herlad today, it was only relating to the state comps aswell, and it seems even there the bigger issue is the re-classification of the younger age groups from (u15),u17,u19, u23 to u16,u18,u20
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:31am
Stevo said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:31am | Report comment
A quick read of it suggests that the recommendations are not intended for the A-league but are focussed on State competitions. The A-league would continue with the salary cap (I think?).
May 22nd 2012 @ 8:58am
jamesb said | May 22nd 2012 @ 8:58am | Report comment
another way for clubs to go broke, introduce a points system! LOL
May 22nd 2012 @ 8:59am
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 22nd 2012 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Middy thank you for bringing this “National Competition Review” (NCR) to our attention.
The Summary of Outcomes of the NCR is essential reading for all football fans.
Source: http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/site/_content/document/00000661-source.pdf
The document is also essential reading for those, who are NOT football fans, but feel compelled to poke their noses into football issues – at least, by reading this document, you will be less ignorant when entering discussions about the strategic direction of AUS football.
Now, Middy, you ask: “I wonder how this would work and how the points are allocated. It is likely that Harry Kewell is worth more than Musti Amini, and therefore the scheme seems very subjective.”
The answers seem pretty clear to me, as detailed on Page 30 & 31.
The 3 basic principles of the “Player Point System” (PPS) are:
1. u25 players are given priority over over 25 year olds
2. AUS players are given priority over Visa players
3. Developed players are given priority over purchased players
How it works:
1. The PPS assumes a mandatory squad of 20 players, with each player assigned a worth of 10 pts (i.e. squad value=200 pts)
2. Depending on the characteristics of the player, player values are then:
a) discounted;
b) inflated
Points added/substracted
* All players: +1 if over 25 years
* Visa players: +10 if player holds an international visa (max. 2 per squad)
* Home-grown player: -1 for each licensed youth team the player played >15 matches per season (max 5 pts per player)
* Pathway players: 0 No penalty for players who left a club to join a “pathway team” (e.g. HAL club, NYL, AIS,) but returned to the licensed club
* Rising stars: -3 for u18 player promoted to the 1st Team within the same club
* Switching player: +8 players who were playing for another club the prior season
On first glance this system seems
a) clean
b) easy to enforce
c) cannot be tampered with by dodgy book-keeping.
If it works for the clubs within the State Federations, then bring it on for the HAL – ASAP!
PS: Middy to answer you question about Harry & Mustafa, my calculations are (for 2011/12 HAL season):
Harry: 10+1+8 = 19 points (Harry would drop to +11 next season b/c he would no longer attract the “+8 switching player inflation”)
Amini: +10-1= 9 points
The beauty of this system is that it values development, youth, loyalty & Aussie talent … not just dollars!
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:05am
phutbol said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
But how does it keep the costs under control? if Harry is 11 pts and say musti or a curtis good or what have you is 9 pts, a team could concievably have 10 harrys at $1m+ each and 10 mustis at $100k each. total wage bill over $10m??
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:16am
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Amendment:
“Age Inflation factor” I’ve given is WRONG. It should read:
All players: +1 for EACH YEAR the player is over the age of 25 years
So, Harry’s points for 2011/12 would have been: +10+8+8= 26 points (and next season it will be +10+9= 19 points)
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:21am
nordster said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:21am | Report comment
Absurd over-regulation and will throw up as many unintended consequences as it attempts to solve. Thought u were smarter than that Fuss!
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:23am
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:23am | Report comment
nordster
The way we learn & develop our ideas is to have each person debate the merits/flaws of a proposal.
I’m really keen to really dig deep into this proposed PPS, so can you itemise some of the flaws & “unintended consequences” – giving real examples, rather than just abstract rhetoric.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:34am
nordster said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:34am | Report comment
Well as with any attempt to set up contrived economic systems, the unintended consequences are not known till they play themselves out. By their very definition, no?
Therefore it’s really not possible to truly debate merits and flaws, as it assumes u know them all up front. This is the main problem I have with attempts to control or contrive outcomes in this way.
So if you’re intellectually honest about it, all we have is abstract rhetoric i’d argue.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:46am
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
But, if you want to shoot down the PPS you must have some idea of what those unintended consequences could be? I mean every decision in life – from the time you get out of bed – could have unintended consequences.
The first step would be to identify the possible adverse consequences – since you raised this issue, I presume you have some examples in mind?
Then, once we’ve identified some basic adverse consequences, we could take it further and apply general assumptions to quantify these potential adverse consequences.
Such “cost-benefit analysis” is a basic exercise & it should be conducted every time there is dispute about implementing a major business or policy initiative.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:59am
nordster said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:59am | Report comment
Well there is a philosophical difference in that I don’t think the policy initiatives in this style are worth pursuing in the first place.
But ok let’s just look at it purely from a coaches perspective. How many different absurd variables will they have to factor in when making decisions? It’s a major impost on the game itself IMO and the ability of a football technician to do their jobs without imposing such a ridiculously convoluted system. Yes they have financial constraints and other regular day to day personnel issues. Recruitment and building a squad would be more of a nightmare, even if the intention is to regulate for the opposite outcome.
A salary cap is hard enough for coaches and football depts to work within without adding more of this on.
Especially when it’s highly likely – as with all constructed economic systems – that’s its nigh on impossible to design something workable that won’t just throw up another whole bunch of problems. I guess it keeps administrators and economic modellers busy though
May 22nd 2012 @ 11:13am
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 22nd 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
“It’s a major impost on the game itself IMO and the ability of a football technician to do their jobs without imposing such a ridiculously convoluted system.”
You’re kidding, right?
Now, I’m not a software engineer but, based on the work I’ve seen software engineers produce in the marketplace, I couldn’t think of an easier task than creating code to calculate the points under the PPS, using data that is supplied during the players registration.
Basically, there are 3 inputs required – all the inputs would already be part of player registration:
1. How old are you?
2. Do you hold an international playing visa?
3. Which club did you play for last season?
Inputs re: home grown, pathway & rising stars would already be entered in the FFA database so basic data mining software would extract the relevant information for each player.
This task will take up ZERO time in the football manager’s day.
May 22nd 2012 @ 11:32am
nordster said | May 22nd 2012 @ 11:32am | Report comment
You’re forgetting the restrictions caps place on coaches in the first place. I argue against this system as its refining what is essentially a turd of a system to begin with. No doubt they can formulate a basic tally to deal with the points tallies. It doesn’t really make the basic principle that underpins salary caps any better in a sporting context especially.
So yes I am overselling the impost of this particular system to make a broader point. Guilty as charged
May 22nd 2012 @ 1:53pm
AndyRoo said | May 22nd 2012 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
So if you sign Kanu (assuming his real age is about 50) you couldn’t afford to have any other senior players
May 22nd 2012 @ 6:52pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | May 22nd 2012 @ 6:52pm | Report comment
Hey, AndyRoo… if you sign Kanu, you don’t need any other players
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:05am
Tigranes said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
Midfielder is this the Football Federation of Australia (the legit body) or Football Australia, the Palmer would-be usurper?
Salary cap is hard to implement in sports where players have other options. It works well in NFL and AFL because there is only one professional league for those sports.
I believe Australia has a moral obligation to assist Pacific Island nations in soccer, even though we are in Asia now (IMO Oceania should not even have its own federation). One way to do this is to encourage HAL clubs to sign up young, promising players from PNG, Solomons, etc. Maybe by making concessions for these players, clubs can be encouraged to sign up these players?
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:16am
Qantas supports Australian Football said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Bureaucracy gone mad…
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:17am
nordster said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
This! Any attempt to regulate the domestic football economy is short term and doomed to fail if we ever want to compete in Asian football. This point system is absurd, but I like it for that reason as it completely makes a mockery of the whole concept of caps. So bring it on in that respect
That’s not even getting to the principle of whether sporting Competitions should be contriving such measures in the first place. It’s sport people… Caps are anti-sport when u get down to it. Yes they are the orthodoxy in this country but highly flawed on many levels.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:17am
nordster said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Double post, damn new tablets…
May 22nd 2012 @ 12:20pm
Realfootball said | May 22nd 2012 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
I will astonish you by agreeing with you 100%.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:44am
raghu said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:44am | Report comment
The points system is for STATE competitions and not A-League. Your article is based on false assumptions
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:58am
Midfielder said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:58am | Report comment
Guys
I sent in a request to the mods one minute after I sent the article to delete the article as it does not apply to the A-League on a full reading but to the state leagues….
Sorry for any miss understanding about how this applies to the A-League…
The report is still worth reading again sorry but I did ask for the article to be as I was planing to write an article on the NCR…
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:31am
Brendo said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:31am | Report comment
Whoops, jumped the gun. Maybe reading the doc first before writing the article might have been more advised
The points system is a interesting idea and although I am not sure how it directly contains wages (Clubs could break the bank on their top 1-3 players and still spend the same as they are today) it does however have a direct and substantial impact on youth development.
If implemented the way outline in the NCR clubs will have no choice but to place more cost and time in developing their own youth as the bonuses for playing young players that you have developed yourself are immense in the outlined structure. The danger of this is if the point allowance is set too low (200 is too low imo) we will see quality of football go down as clubs field sides full of youth with only 1-2 overseas players supporting them.
The other thing it does is encourage loyalty as players moving clubs are punished in the points system. I can see this driving up wages as clubs will have added incentive to keep thier best and even average players and will need to pay them more to keep them. The impact being if they lost them, buying in another player may result in also letting go another player to keep unde rthe points total.
I pity any player over 25. We are going to see a lot of decent players let go in favor of younger players not because they better but because thet clubs cannot afford to carry the points penalties.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:56am
Midfielder said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:56am | Report comment
Yep … on jumping the gun…