Super Rugby teams that should start 2013 planning now
By Brett McKay, 22 May 2012 Brett McKay is a Roar Expert
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- ACT Brumbies, Queensland Reds, Rugby Union, Stormers, Super Rugby, waikato chiefs
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The Bulls celebrate their match winning try as a dejected Waratahs look on during their Super Rugby match (AAP Image/Dean Lewins)
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In what truly has been one of the more even Super Rugby competitions in recent memory, the time has finally come to rule the line through some teams for 2012.
While in some cases these lines may have ruled themselves, for other teams, they’ve clung onto what little semblance of hope they had.
So let’s start with the obvious ones first: the Lions, Blues, and Force are already looking at 2013, and probably have been for weeks.
The same now goes for the Waratahs, and Cheetahs. While both sides have had their moments in 2012, too many losses when they least needed them have cruelled their chances. Their respective weekend losses to the Stormers and Sharks have now dropped them almost two wins below the chasing pack, and their draws for the rest of the season are far from favourable, including a point-stealing match-up against each other next weekend.
Put the line through them both, thanks.
The pity in this is that the Cheetahs play some of the prettiest rugby in the competition, but just lack the ability to last the full 80 minutes. The Waratahs have also had trouble lasting the full 80 minutes, too, though the less said about their style of play, the better.
As an aside, I do hope the Cheetahs aren’t forced into an inconvenient merger in 2013. They deserve the opportunity to keep building their blossoming side in their own right.
The Rebels, somewhat surprisingly, now find themselves third in the Australian conference. I do give them some chance of playing the spoiler role in the final round of local derbies, but essentially, they’re done too.
The chasing pack: Hurricanes (9th, 35pts), Reds (8th, 36), and Highlanders (7th, 39)
The Hurricanes losing to the Brumbies at home last Friday night has the line ominously poised. Not unlike the Cheetahs, they’ve played some outstanding rugby this season, but haven’t been able to string the performances together when it counts. They may take points away from the Rebels and Waratahs before the June recess, and will have a bye in July too, but the Crusaders and Chiefs will be too big a task on the resumption.
The Reds and Highlanders have a chance of breaking into the top six, but this coming round shapes as ‘must win’ for both teams. While for the Reds that means beating the conference-leading Brumbies in chilly Canberra, the Highlanders have the slightly less-demanding job of taking on the sub-par Blues, albeit at Eden Park.
That’s not to say the Blues will be walkovers, but I’d imagine the Crusaders were telling themselves that too, before they ran out on Saturday evening.
The following week, the Reds have the bye, while the Highlanders have the tough ask of taking on the Crusaders in Christchurch. For either team to feature in the finals they just have to jag eight points before the break, it’s that simple. In fact, for the Reds, their overall hopes probably rest on the Brumbies relinquishing the conference lead anyway.
Sharks: (6th, 41pts)
At the end of Week 9, the Sharks were running mid-table with more losses than wins. Their trans-Tasman tour had netted bonus point wins against the Brumbies and Blues, but dropped games they were probably entitled to win against the Waratahs and Hurricanes. At the time, I felt they were in real danger of being overrun by the Cheetahs.
A bye in Week 10, followed by three straight wins, has the Sharks literally circling again. Over the last five rounds, they’ll have another bye and a virtual bye in Johannesburg against the Lions. Their season will come down to how many points they can take away from the Stormers this weekend, and the Bulls and Cheetahs in the final two rounds.
Crusaders: (5th, 42pts)
Dark horses don’t get any darker than the red and blacks. After their shock loss to the Rebels, plenty were left to wonder if they were looking a shaky, fading force. Five tries, and a 31-0 score against the hapless Blues by halftime quickly put paid to that.
With Carter back at 10 from now on, you’d think, McCaw coming back to full fitness and Kieran Read to return in the next week or two, the pieces are falling back into place for yet another championship tilt. They’re too good a team to ignore as contenders.
Bulls: (4th, 47pts)
If the Bulls can recapture and hold onto the South Africa conference lead, they will be a decent chance off adding to their three previous Super Rugby Championships.
It’s just a matter of ‘if’ though. They have one of the harder draws to complete the conference stage, starting with the Chiefs in Hamilton this Friday, and then the Stormers in Pretoria next weekend. After the June break, they’ll complete a final round of derbies with the Cheetahs, the Sharks in Durban, and the Lions to finish.
On current form, they could easily win at least three of those games. However, you could just as easily see them losing three, too. And that kind of sums up their season. You feel that while they’ll make the semis one way or the other, the only way they can really be seen as a contender is if they secure playoffs at Loftus Versfeld. It seems a funny condition to place on a team inside the top four, but that’s the way I see it.
Brumbies: (Australian Conference leaders, 44pts)
When flyhalf Christian Lealiifano’s season ended in the 81st minute against the Waratahs two weeks ago, so too did the Brumbies’, or so the assumptions went. Though they’d shot away to a handy Aussie conference lead, the real danger was they’d be caught and drop out of the finals calculations.
So it’s fair to say that those assumptions were thrown out the window after the Brumbies’ exceptional come-from-behind win against the Hurricanes. When the 37-25 win was confirmed, I had the instant image of Roarer LeftArmSpinner hurriedly re-doing his impressive predictions spreadsheet.
That said, the Brumbies still aren’t home yet, and must beat the Reds on Saturday night. Zack Holmes showed that there is still life post-Lealiifano, though Lordy’s weekend suggestion that Holmes “threw down the [selection] gauntlet to Wallaby coach Robbie Deans” was more than a tad optimistic from my esteemed colleague. The Brumbies’ 2012 destiny does remain in their hands, however.
Chiefs: (New Zealand Conference leaders, 49pts, nine wins)
At some point in the last few months, I suggested that one of the Highlanders, Chiefs, or Stormers would host the final. While I’ve now dropped the Highlanders from that form line, I remain convinced that the Chiefs are still staring down that barrel.
While the Chiefs were expected to improve in 2012, with a new coaching team and a quality squad of new and existing players, I don’t know that too many would’ve expected a nine-game winning streak, including a tour to Perth and South Africa in the middle of it. In fact, the Chiefs were the first New Zealand side to win consecutive games in the Republic since they last did it themselves in 2010.
The only danger I can see to them topping the New Zealand conference is the fast finishing Crusaders, and indeed, they may be the only team capable of stopping the Chiefs winning their first Super Rugby title. That said, the Chiefs will fear no-one in the finals, and nor will playing away from Hamilton worry them either.
Stormers: (South African Conference leaders, 49pts, 10 wins)
The Stormers remain a competition favourite, but like the Bulls, I feel they too will be more likely to lift the three-legged spaceship cup if they earn home finals at Newlands.
The Stormers’ title credentials are obvious; the best defence in the competition has conceded the fewest number of tries, while winning the most games.
What may count against them though, if things get tight at the top, is their lack of bonus points. Their solitary 2012 bonus point is fewer even than the tally of the cellar-dwelling Lions. The Stormers also have the second-lowest number of tries scored.
But scoring few tries hasn’t been much of a problem. As few tries as they score, their garrison-like defence means they let in less again. Their season-average score sits at 22-16, and as we can see at almost two thirds of the way through the competition, that’s more than enough to top the charts.
Come finals time, winning margins will count for even less again.
Brett McKay is a former non-tackling scrumhalf and not-quite-1st Grade middle order stalwart. A rugby and cricket expert for The Roar since July 2009 (having joined in Sept 2008), Brett has written for Inside Rugby and Cricket Australia, and is also PLAY Canberra's rugby correspondent. He tweets from @BMcSport
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May 22nd 2012 @ 2:04am
Johnno said | May 22nd 2012 @ 2:04am | Report comment
Tahs Tahs Tahs. Seriously if the tahs do not pick up soon there could be rumblings of a rebellion and moving tah land to west sydney and playing out of Parramatta stadium. 17,000 for a do or die match vs the Bulls pathetic. Why weren’t the tah fans turning up to the game. To cheer on there mighty tahs rather staying home and watching it on tv taking the lazy option pathetic, while the reds fans and force fans always show up at suncorp. Some sydneysiders if they want to keep there team need to start turning up to matches not good enough sydney.
Maybe west sydney with a big population may be the answer, playing ouf of homebush or Parramatta stadium both next to train stations. Prince is on at Homebush and really easy to get to for tonights concert for Sydneysiders that are going to watch prince at homebush in his World tour.
I really hope the cheetahs stay Blomfentien and the orange free state has produced so many great Springboks it is a real rugby union heartland in south africa.
Danny Gerber, Os Du Rant, Bismark Du Plessis, Henirch Brussow, and the imperious Juan SMith just a small snapshot of many great springboks produced in Blomfentien.
And they are getting better, but I fear politics will play a part as it always sadly does now in modern South Africa and the Lions will survive and the cheetahs will be cut, I can’t see a merger happening to complicated.
Ellis Park is now a run down stadium from a golden era in South Africa. And is not in best location of town the lions should maybe move to the main big stadium, just as the stormers are rightly considering moving form Newlands which is ageing, and logistically the new cape town is so easy to get to and find parking, and new toilet and seating unlike Newlands which is run down and awful parking.
So for min tahs, and the Blues need a total clean out and maybe both need an argus review style or a crawford report style.
2 biggest population in Aust and NZ failing so badly, the rebels now are ahead of the tahs and only in there 2nd year a real worry.
The rebels mark my words are a team on the up they will challenge for finals spot next year and i think maybe win it by 2015.
May 22nd 2012 @ 6:23am
Moaman said | May 22nd 2012 @ 6:23am | Report comment
Johnno! How can you lambast the apathetic Sydneysiders for not attending the ‘Tahs matches when you yourself are a self-professed boycotter of them?
Brett…nice read on a frosty,crisp NZ morning
( I too had an image of LAS and his trusty spreadsheet!) I read a day or two ago that the Crusaders’ management had been sniffing around Ma’a Nonu with regard to bolstering their midfield stocks.Obviously they don’t leave their planning to the last minute either. One permutation we also need to take into account is what effect the June Tests will have on various squads.
May 22nd 2012 @ 6:37am
BennO said | May 22nd 2012 @ 6:37am | Report comment
That’s something I’ve been wondering about too Moaman. It’s conceivable that the reds, for example, could lose several key players through the tests and even if they did make the finals they’d be no chance of getting past week one. Naturally that can happen in any game, however, when half your team is playing internationals and the same is not true for your opposition then it’s a slightly different situation.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:03am
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:03am | Report comment
hey Moa, you and BennO are quite right, the June Tests will almost certainly play a part in the final run home. I see that the Wallabies, for eg, go into camp straight after their squad announcement next Monday, though it’s not clear how involved in those early training sessions players involved in games the following weekend will be.
Nonu to the Crusaders is an interesting thought, I wonder why they wouldn’t want to persevere with a Taylor or Bleyendaal at 12 next year, outside Carter??
May 22nd 2012 @ 4:32pm
Moaman said | May 22nd 2012 @ 4:32pm | Report comment
Sorry for tardy response Brett-was away today. Apparently,the Crusaders specifically want some grunt at 12 .The 2 blokes you mentioned are first and foremost 10s of course.
BennO-yep-will be interesting.
Johnno; Don’t worry-that can be our little secret
May 23rd 2012 @ 1:06am
Johnno said | May 23rd 2012 @ 1:06am | Report comment
lol Moaman okay deal mate.
May 22nd 2012 @ 3:25pm
Johnno said | May 22nd 2012 @ 3:25pm | Report comment
I know moan i am a hypocrite i just don’t tell anyone I am you typical apathetic whinging sydneysidet guilty as charged,.
May 22nd 2012 @ 8:59am
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Johnno, you can add South Africa’s biggest population to your equation too..
That said, moving the Waratahs out to Parramatta doesn’t solve the crowd issue, it just moves it. As I’ve told you numerous times, popultaion does not guarantee support.
May 22nd 2012 @ 3:27pm
Johnno said | May 22nd 2012 @ 3:27pm | Report comment
Yes you have your population argument not guareentieing supper tis a strong one. PNG NRL bid is a valid one PNG has 6.6 million but they are not ready for an NRL team yet in my opinion.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:19am
Happy Hooker said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:19am | Report comment
They didn’t turn up because it was a Friday night and it was the Bulls – not the most attractive team to watch. Contrast that with the 30,000 that turned up on a Sunday afternoon to watch the Crusaders.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:38am
Spencer said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
…or 31,000 that turned up to watch the mighty Lions at Lang Park!
May 22nd 2012 @ 11:16am
soapit said | May 22nd 2012 @ 11:16am | Report comment
as always, qlders follow success.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:35pm
matthew said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:35pm | Report comment
Bulls have played more rugby and scored more tries than the Saders of late but dont let that stop the general anti-saffer predjudice. Btw, they have been pretty ordinary on tour though.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:36am
Tsk-tsk said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Dear Jonno,
Also please learn to spell because it will make your rants less irritating. The word you are looking for is “their” – as in “their house”, “their team”. You use it with possessives.
“There”, on the other hand is how we describe a place. For example, “Look over there! It’s somebody who didn’t finish school!!”
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:41am
Spencer said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
English might not be Johnno’s first language. BTW- you spelt his name incorrectly.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:08am
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:08am | Report comment
Hilarious…
Tsk, obvious typos and bouts of non-logic aside, Johnno’s message stands up. There’s plenty of validity in what he says, you just need to cut through the jungle to get there..
May 22nd 2012 @ 11:01am
lorry said | May 22nd 2012 @ 11:01am | Report comment
Yes haha, the infamous bouts of non-logic e.g. ‘I.think politics will sadly play a part as it always does in modern south Africa.’
Guess that means that politics didn’t play a part before 1994?!…
May 22nd 2012 @ 11:47am
sittingbison said | May 22nd 2012 @ 11:47am | Report comment
someone had a dig at Johnno yesterday as well. Internet forums are not school classes guys, chill.
Johnno is always worth reading, he has valid observations and is knowledgeable. You’ll get the gist of what he is on about with practice.
May 22nd 2012 @ 4:29pm
Moaman said | May 22nd 2012 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
I agree whole-heartedly and that from a reformed pedant
May 23rd 2012 @ 1:12am
Johnno said | May 23rd 2012 @ 1:12am | Report comment
Thanks sittingbison glad you appreciate my observations and knowledgable answers. i will keep the comments coming , i never mind some critics some are a just funny others are just plain petty unlike classy and mature folk like you sittingbison, much appreciated sir.
May 22nd 2012 @ 3:49am
andy said | May 22nd 2012 @ 3:49am | Report comment
yes … there must be something bigger playing into Tah’s poor form this year.
is it the lack of relationship that players have with their fans that creates a playing atmosphere where the players are just playing for themselves and nothing greater.
is it that the ‘come to jesus meeting’ of last year was shown to be the PR stunt that it was?
is it the poor stadium experiences at either venue for different reasons, keeping the crowd away?
is it as Spiro points out – the fitness of the team affecting them to compete for 80mins
is it a team that lacks trust in each other that there will be support (by form of clean out or offload) if someone decides to run
is it a Sydney thing that money can buy you passion … buy you a winning culture etc?
is it a Sydney thing that there are just too many other things to do on a saturday night (but not a sunday afternoon?).
is it the expectation of having so many wallabies
is it inexpereince or injuiries in key positions ?
But – whatever it is…. The Tahs seems to be more and more a team where good players go to become average.
Whatever it is – i am fascinated at fortunes of the Tahs with all the promise … compared to the fortunes of the Reds and Brumbies who were down and out a few years back…. or the Rebels who can never convert the AFL heartland to appreciate other forms of footy.
May 22nd 2012 @ 4:12am
kingplaymaker said | May 22nd 2012 @ 4:12am | Report comment
Johnno don’t count on it. Read this news report on what the Tahs chief executive said today with horror:
‘Allen admitted he was well aware of public and media calls for Foley, indeed for the entire Waratahs coaching staff, to be sacked but he was adamant that would not be happening.
“Our plan is definitely that he is there again next season,” Allen told The Australian.
“We’re not shirking the fact that there are performance issues. I can feel the public sentiment, although we are also getting plenty of calls of support for Foley.
“We’ve got to look at the ways we can improve. Some change is required but we’re not going to get irrational and start chopping heads.
“We employed ‘Foles’ because we are confident in his capacity to deliver. The score is not on the scoreboard yet but we believe that can be turned around.”‘
May 22nd 2012 @ 6:26am
Moaman said | May 22nd 2012 @ 6:26am | Report comment
KPM..as you well know…..the time that management come out publicly to defend their coach is often a precursor to them getting the knives out!
May 22nd 2012 @ 6:28am
kingplaymaker said | May 22nd 2012 @ 6:28am | Report comment
Moaman there can only be hope, but it’s extraordinary that he calls it ‘irrational’ to think of replacing a coach who has failed with the best resources in the biggest rugby state in the country.
The truth is obviously that the Waratahs board need to be fired en masse!
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:29am
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:29am | Report comment
I read those comments by Allen & they, along with the denial line of the coaches fails to fill me with confidence that 2013 will be somehow better for us. At the moment it’s very much like the King with no clothes
I also found this interesting from Allen “I can feel the public sentiment, although we are also getting plenty of calls of support for Foley.” I used to work in an area that looked at complaints on service delivered and it is as rare as rocking horse poo to actually get calls expressing support or appreciation. Sadly people complain way more often and easily than they compliment or support. So I would be tempted to call this absolute BS.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:08am
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Andy, they’re all valid questions…
May 22nd 2012 @ 4:08pm
B-Rock said | May 22nd 2012 @ 4:08pm | Report comment
As a Tahs fan I am disappointed but not shocked with how they are playing this season. My two cents:
1. Surely no one ever considered Foley a great coach. As an ex-front rower he has a forward oriented mind-set, not necessarily a bad thing but hardly a “running rugby” type. At this stage of his career he has had little top level success so his performance should be in line with expectations. The pack, and scrum in particular, are playing well, the backs are rudderless.
2. The Tahs are not designed to be an attacking team. Last year KB, Turner and Mitchell were the only players capable of this, so missing each of them clearly hurts. This mythical “running rugby ethos of the Tahs” is an ideal only occasionally achieved. For most of the past 10-15yrs this has been a forward oriented strategy underpinned by strong defense. Not pretty but it is effective, and is justified (to some extent) by the results up until this season.
3. Look at the list of players lost from last year through injury/transfer/retirement: KB, Drew Mitchell, Vicks, Waugh, Baxter, Burgess, Mowen, and to a lesser extent Cross, McCutcheon, Anesi. Also lost Barnes for a number of games at the start of the season. Only players of note to be added are AAC, Pretorious and Rocky but the later has only made it back recently. A lot of experience and talent lost with little in return. Depth is the biggest casualty of all in this turnover – frontline players are solid but back ups are poor. Saying that Uligia has actually been pretty good this year IMO, I was worried about the reserve hooker spot…
I think Tahs fans need to face reality. This team is not good enough to make the top 6 given the changes to coaches and players this year. Surely the Tahs can do better than Foley and attract more top level talent than what is currently there.
May 22nd 2012 @ 3:52am
BennO said | May 22nd 2012 @ 3:52am | Report comment
“The pity in this is that the Cheetahs play some of the prettiest rugby in the competition, but just lack the ability to last the full 80 minutes.”
I haven’t watched the Cheetahs much this season but that sounds eerily like descriptions of the reds circa 2009/10.
May 22nd 2012 @ 6:24am
Who Needs Melon said | May 22nd 2012 @ 6:24am | Report comment
Very true BennO and an apt description I think. I really hope we see them again next year.
May 22nd 2012 @ 6:38am
BennO said | May 22nd 2012 @ 6:38am | Report comment
Yeah fingers crossed. I know there’s a lot of politics in there but gees that situation makes shake my head in wonder.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:10am
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
unintended likeness, BennO, but it’s a fair point you make. I have seen some talk out of South Africa this morning that the Cheetahs may well be left alone for 2013, will post a link if I find one later..
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:17am
The Bush said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
They do have a lot of similarities to the Reds 2009/2010 seasons – though they’re a little more successful than the Reds in 2009 and not quite as successful as the Reds in 2010.
They’re throwing the ball around a lot, have a mobile pack and are scoring plenty of tries. There is even the similarity in losing a top player to the Waratahs (Pretorius/Barnes).
However I haven’t been watching them enough to determine if they have emerging talent to match the players Cooper, Genia, Horwill and Higgers have become.
May 22nd 2012 @ 2:33pm
BennO said | May 22nd 2012 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
No team could possibly match those four legends. Surely?
Gees, I’m disappointed we couldn’t hang on to higgers.
May 22nd 2012 @ 4:23pm
The Bush said | May 22nd 2012 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
I remember, years ago, when I had season tickets really close to the front, we use to yell out strange things to Higgers – not for any real reason, simply because he had red hair, a strange name and the because the Reds sucked so much we needed other entertainment.
However, I can say a real love and affection developed over time and a damn shame we have to lose him.
But all said and done, the real tragedy will be if the Reds can’t replace him. Qld and NSW should never have the development issues and need to “recruit” that the other Franchises do.
May 22nd 2012 @ 2:45pm
Big Steve said | May 22nd 2012 @ 2:45pm | Report comment
They are not the same team without the Goose. Hope he comes back strong next year.
May 22nd 2012 @ 4:35pm
Jutsie said | May 22nd 2012 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
They have brussow and goosen, one is already a Springbok star and the other had springbok 10 written all over him before his injury.
If Juan Smith ever recovers from his injuries imagine how good their back row would: Brussow, Ashley Johnson, Smith
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:41pm
matthew said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:41pm | Report comment
I dont think so, Johnson, a key man for them at 8th man is going to Europe so that leaves Brussouw and Goosen as the only other “superstars”. They play very well as a team though.
May 22nd 2012 @ 7:25am
Terry Tavita said | May 22nd 2012 @ 7:25am | Report comment
no mention of the rebels?..if they beat the hurricanes this week with a bonus point they could forge to 7th with a game in hand..
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:07am
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
no mention, Terry?? What’s this:
“The Rebels, somewhat surprisingly, now find themselves third in the Australian conference. I do give them some chance of playing the spoiler role in the final round of local derbies, but essentially, they’re done too.”
And they are done. They’re 6pts below the bottom of the chasing pack, and I don’t give the Hurricanes (who will be extra determined at home this week) much hope anyway. The Rebels are 10pts off 7th currently, I don’t think they’ll be ‘forging’ that far ahead at all..
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:25am
Underarm said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
Go the rebels, now wouldn’t that tune Australian Rugby on its head. Are Force still capable of overtaking the tahs? that’s probably what they need before any change will actually happen
May 22nd 2012 @ 12:53pm
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
UA, the Force are only nine points behind the Tahs, so there’s certainly some chance, yeah. Whether they’re capable though, that’s probably another story…
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:53am
Chris said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:53am | Report comment
You do realise that in a competition that hands out winning points for a bye it isn’t an advantage to have a “game in hand”?
The Rebels v. Hurricanes equation this weekend is pretty simple: Team with most tries per game vs. team with most tries conceded per game. The Rebels will need a BIG early lead to even have a shot in this one.
Brumbies will regain their rightful place as Australia’s premier team on Saturday night.
Waratahs can just about give up on even existing as a team if they lose another game. As a Brumbies fan I really would like to see them lose (can you have too much of a good thing? Of course not!).
The Force will have to contend with the extremely unusual situation of being raging favorites. Says a lot about the Lions. Hope the Force can handle the pressure!
May 22nd 2012 @ 7:31am
Shungmao said | May 22nd 2012 @ 7:31am | Report comment
The reds are in a difficult position and will need results to go their way week to week. Even if they beat the Brumbles I still think the Brumbies run home is more than manageable The reds not only need to win all their gamse but rely on the sharks dropping a few and not only beat the tahs but turn a traditionally dour, low scoring game into a bonus point win, that way they could scrap into the six.
Personally I think winning it from 6 is near impossible, however I feel the reds will be more of a chance come finals time than the brumbies. The Brumbies are grinding out some impressive wins but on paper and on song the reds have a team that can beat the like of Canterbury , Bulls and Stormers at home where as I don’t think the Brumbies can. Time will tell and if the brumbies are the only Aussie team in the play offs I will be ordering bales of hay, turning my lounge room into a barn, chucking the chaps on and cheering them on with everything I can.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:10am
Red Kev said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
I agree – the Reds left it too late to start playing rugby this season.
Assuming they finish 7th or 8th which at the moment seems likely the team above them are likely to be: Stormers, Chiefs, Brumbies, Bulls, Crusaders, Sharks, Highlanders (maybe).
In 2012 the Reds have beaten the Chiefs, the Brumbies (once and may end with a split against them), and are yet to play the Highlanders. Given that, just out of the top six is a good reflection of their play this season. The losses against the Sharks and the Crusaders are the two matches they should have won and needed to win if they were going to be serious finals contenders.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:12am
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:12am | Report comment
Shung, I tend to agree with that, I think winning from outside the four will be a hard task, with the possible exception of the Crusaders. For an Australian team, I think they’d have to have home finals, for the very reasons you point out..
May 22nd 2012 @ 8:46am
Jono said | May 22nd 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
I don’t know what is wrong in Tahland, but it’s not working. It’s never really worked. I always thought that the Tahs supporters can be quite fickle, and that I would always keep my season membership (had it since 2001). 2012 will be my last year of attenting NSW rugby fixtures. Maybe it’s because they don’t win, maybe it’s because it’s unattractive, maybe because I hate travelling to the crap side of Sydney to watch games at ANZ. Whatever it is, I just don’t give a sh*t anymore.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:25am
Shungmao said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
Jono,
Keep the faith mate, until last year I was a long suffering reds supporter but the wheel will turn. Foley will be shown the door sooner than later and there is plenty of talent in the squad . With Mumm departing that’s a lot of negative press going with him and if Carter becomes irrelevant the rest of the non necessary destructive press goes as well, like them or not, justified or not it’s reality. The good news is if foley goes there are some good coaches out there who would surely be interested, that will make a positive difference, my only concern to be honest, is like in most organizations “the fish rots at the head” and the NSWRU needs to mirror the Reds and do a clean out ASAP.
Think of the positives, how good would it be if in a couple of years, maybe even next year the tahs win their first title and you could say ” I’ve supported them for as long as I can remember….”
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:37am
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:37am | Report comment
Jono I feel your pain. Being a Tahs fan is like having a flat chested wife with a wart on her nose & a craggy voice while all your mates have blonde bomb shells. You just dread parties.
Having said that, I have determined that when the Tahs take on the Reds in Brisbane……….I’ll bloody well be there with my Rugby hating Qld mate. He & I will be all decked out in sky blue and show the boys that if we can put up with the ribbing we’re about to receive then they can make a bit of an effort and get stuck-in too.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:58am
Jono said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:58am | Report comment
Shungmao and Blinky, I know where you are coming from. For mine it’s not just the results that haven’t been coming through, it’s just a complete lack of any kind of positive atmosphere. Even the years we have been strong, I haven’t really felt like it’s a team that I truely supported. I think a lot of Tahs fans are rugby supporters first and foremost and happen to come from Sydney. Thereby making them Tahs supporters by default.
I know my comments are a bit jaded coming after the recent weeks, but I’ve noticed all my mates are pushing the same point. Something needs to be done, because at this point the Tahs are becoming about as relevant as the A-League.
May 22nd 2012 @ 11:25am
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | May 22nd 2012 @ 11:25am | Report comment
Jono – The thing that worries me the most right now is that those that make Waratah World tick, who ever they may be, continue to upset fans with their comments and lack of positive action.
If the Tah coaching staff can’t see as clear as crystal that their ideas are not bearing fruit and therefore need to change, then what hope is there?
I don’t think Allens comments have helped either.
This has been spoken about endlessly but for the Tahs to be successful with results, the fans & financially, something has to change. Saying you are listening & then doing nothing about it just guarantees that downward spiral to continue.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:12pm
murph said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:12pm | Report comment
I’d say it’s more like having a babe for a wife and knowing she’s got no brains and is crap in bed
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:09am
Uncle Argyle said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:09am | Report comment
Can anyone tell me if Rocky Elsom is on a 1+1 with option contract with the Tah’s? I think he may be a good replacement for Scott Higginbotham at the Red’s. If not I would like to see the Red’s look abroad for a quality backrow forward in the mould of Andre Vos or Dan Braid. Perhaps Josh Strauss might call time on the Lions if their kicked out of Super 15; perhaps Sebastian Chabal or even bring home Leroy Houston?
On the Tah’s being so useless this season. Well it happens. I don’t recall those Sydney-siders shedding any tears for Qld rugby when we were in the doldrums. Its up to them to dig themselves out of their own whole and then the ever fickle fans will return with the tartan pom pom hats telling everyone that they a staunch supporters blah-waratah-blah!
Perhaps Berrick might also want to come home if Quade departs?
It might be the Phil Waugh effect?
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:13am
Red Kev said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:13am | Report comment
If Link buys Elsom I would officially withdraw support from the Reds, from McKenzie being the next Wallaby coach and request that he be tarred and feathered in Brisbane town centre. Elsom is an empty shirt and a massive waste of money for any club.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:15am
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
Uncle, I reckon Jake Schatz will be a more than handy replacement at blindside – indeed, he’s keeping Samo out of the side now. I recall something about Elsom needing to play x number of games for NSW & Australia to trigger the second year of his contract, which I presume he’s well short of, and which is fuelling the Europe/Japan rumours..
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:18am
Uncle Argyle said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Big fan of Shatz. I think Samo is not mentally there at the moment due to family matters in Fiji with floods etc. Plus he is getting on in age a tad. Rock may want to stick around for Lions tour?
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:48am
Rhino said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:48am | Report comment
Schatz seems to be finding his feet at Super15 level so happy to see if can step into Higgers shoes. Agree with others about hoping Reds don’t chase Elsom. However, the one player I’d like the Reds to pursue is Hugh McMeniman. Higgers basically took on the role he had with the Reds before departing for Japan. Not sure what contract he is on over there but Suncorp would rock even more with “Madness” on the field. Still very young and a great player.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:54am
rl said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Elsom would only be an option for the Reds if he came on a performance-based contract (as Brett described, minimum no. of games etc). On that basis, sure, he might be worth a go. But why would he, when he can probably still attract a decent contract in Europe?
I agree with Brett, the Reds have plenty of options – Schatz at No.8, and Ed Quirk on the the blindside (not forgetting Robinson too). If the Reds were really going to go offshore for talent, I think a specialist tighthead prop is a must. Too many stop-gaps and Guy Shepherson hasn’t worked out for them.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:05am
Red Kev said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Yeah Higginbotham is a loss, but if they spend the money on a genuine tighthead prop I would call it a win overall. Props are harder to find than backrowers.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:20am
kingplaymaker said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:20am | Report comment
The Reds are discovering so much talent at the moment they probably have another highly talented player to replace Higginbotham, and spreading some of the talent around the Australian franchises is probably a good thing.
May 22nd 2012 @ 11:21am
formeropenside said | May 22nd 2012 @ 11:21am | Report comment
Spreading Queensland talent elsewhere is never a good thing.
It would be a disaster for Elsom to come to Qld – he appears to be a very destabilising force. Barnes can come back to Qld when it is a cold day in hell.
May 22nd 2012 @ 12:25pm
kingplaymaker said | May 22nd 2012 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
fos not necessarily. QLD seem to producing more and more talent and soon or already will have too much to fit in, so it might as well go somewhere it can play.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:25am
nickoldschool said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:25am | Report comment
Chabal has just signed for Lyon (newly relegated to Pro d2). There are 4 good backrowers at the Force, hmmm,…
May 22nd 2012 @ 11:09am
Justin2 said | May 22nd 2012 @ 11:09am | Report comment
Got to be a wind up? Why would the Reds want to chase Elsom? He’s played 3 games in 2 yrs and wouldnt make the run on team.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:20am
johnno42 said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:20am | Report comment
waratahs are massive under performers… always have been, even the year they made ‘bridesmaid’. whatever….
Now the blue’s… there is a team with problems that are worth sorting out!!
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:45am
Red Kev said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:45am | Report comment
See the rumour that the Crusaders are chasing Nonu … it would be interesting to see Nonu and Fruen in teh midfield behind the Crusaders pack.
May 22nd 2012 @ 9:47am
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 9:47am | Report comment
How many Johnnos do we have now?!?
May 22nd 2012 @ 12:51pm
p.Tah said | May 22nd 2012 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
42
May 22nd 2012 @ 12:55pm
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
yeah, I guess I asked for that…
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:03am
Rickety Knees said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:03am | Report comment
G’day Mate – have to say being a old Cooma boy born and bred, I am now hoisting the Brumbies petard.
I have followed the Tahs before the Brumbies existed and have to say that I am now totally over them starting with Jason Allen (CEO) right through the Sydney University dominated (12 players plus Greg Mumm) moribund organisation. For me it is the old money power cliques that are responsible for the culture of entitlement that pervades the franchise. They forced Link McKenzie out and brought in Chris Hickey whose only achievement was to drive crowds away – Foley has followed in his footsteps and nothing has changed. And I don’t believe that it will until there is a complete clear out from board down and the ARU appoints a new coach who has the strength of personality and the vision to build a winning culture. Much the same way that Jake White has been able to achieve with the Brumbies.
May 22nd 2012 @ 11:09am
kingplaymaker said | May 22nd 2012 @ 11:09am | Report comment
RK the advantage of a franchise system over a private ownership system is presumably that the ARU can step in and fire the whole board if the organisation is underperforming too badly. But do they do it?
May 22nd 2012 @ 11:18am
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 11:18am | Report comment
Rickety, the cynic in me would take pleasure in all these Tahs fans rapidly re-discovering their Brumbies Rugby region roots!!
I do get what you’re saying about the need for a clean-out, I’m just not sure about how much jurisdiction the ARU would have to appoint a Waratahs coach.
The turning point for the Tahs has to be the recognition that what they’re doing isn’t working. Whether they can recognise that is the $64 question, though..
May 22nd 2012 @ 1:04pm
kingplaymaker said | May 22nd 2012 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Brett they would have to fire the board as they presumably couldn’t fire the coach. You would then hope the new board would fire the coach!
Jason Allen’s preposterous remarks suggest he has only a tiny inklng that what they’re doing isn’t 100% perfect.
May 22nd 2012 @ 2:08pm
Rickety Knees said | May 22nd 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
Yeah GUYS had a senile moment and didn’t get it quite right. The ARU should fire the board – sell the Tahs to a private consortium – it is only then that the penny will drop that they are in the ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY!
May 22nd 2012 @ 4:12pm
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
except KPM & Rickety, it’s not even the NSWRU board that make that decision now. The Waratahs now (and for last 18 months or so) are run by a completely separate organistation to the NSWRU. Different name (NSW Waratahs Ltd, I think), different board, different organisation.
So while the ARU may be able to move on the NSWRU board, I don’t think they would have any carriage over the Waratahs board at all. The realisation of the need for change can only come from within..
May 22nd 2012 @ 11:06pm
kingplaymaker said | May 22nd 2012 @ 11:06pm | Report comment
Surely they would be able to fire the Waratahs board even if it is different from the NSWRU board: it is a franchise system.
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:05am
hannibal said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Petition to rebuild the Waratahs here…This is being sent to the Board. Sign up and show the Tahs how we really feel…
http://www.change.org/petitions/rebuild-the-waratahs-from-the-ground-up-coach-players-culture-and-all
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:09am
Brett McKay said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:09am | Report comment
Good luck with that one, Hannibal…
May 22nd 2012 @ 10:46am
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | May 22nd 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Mate it’s worth a try. First step, longest journey & all of that kind of thing.
I’ve just signed it.
May 23rd 2012 @ 9:30am
Happy Hooker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 9:30am | Report comment
I note that it does propose some board members fall on their sword, but really we do need a clean out. What we most need is a long term view. With many players contracted beyond the end of this season, things aren’t going to change significantly any time soon, there wouldn’t be the funds to pay out non-performers. We need to be aiming to make the final in say 5 years time, and work towards that.