Who will be in the Wallabies’ backrow?
By jeznez, 23 May 2012 jeznez is a Roar Guru
158 Have your say
Wallabies player David Pocock takes the ball forward. AAP Image/Dave Hunt
Related coverage
The battle of the breakdown goes a long way to determining which side wins a game of rugby. Which of the current crop of backrowers will help the Wallabies win this crucial facet of play?
Over the last few days I’ve nominated a Wallaby tight five of Benn Robinson, Stephen Moore, Dan Palmer, Scott Fardy and James Horwill starting and Tatafu Polota-Nau, Sekope Kepu and Kane Douglas on the bench.
Today, I want to cast an eye over the backrow and complete my forward pack nominations.
Let’s start with the open side breakaways. David Pocock should be one of the first picked. His performances at the world cup and particularly in the controversial quarter final victory over South Africa last year were immense.
Pocock’s performances for the Force this year have not been at the same level but we know what he can do in gold and he deserves first shot at retaining the jersey. While Pocock has been dominant, this may be the last year we can say that, with the young tyros Liam Gill and Michael Hooper putting in some standout performances throughout this year’s Super Rugby season.
Hooper in particular combines superb breakdown work with a strong running game while Gill has been a vital cog in the recent Reds resurgence.
Gill will be captaining the Australian U-20 side during the June tests, so won’t be considered here.
Hooper has earned his chance against Scotland which will be a tough ask backing up from his clash with the Rebels four days earlier.
Michael Lipman for the Rebels is ineligible, having represented England. Chris Alcock and Jono Jenkins have work to do to match our best.
Colby Fainga’a was level pegging with Hooper last year but is only now coming back from injury. I will be interested to see if he can have an impact in the back end of the season.
Scott Higginbotham, Dave Dennis and Ben Mowen all have their supporters for the best number 6/8 in Australia, but Higginbotham is the stand out.
Higginbotham has always had the X Factor and a strong wide running game. This season he has tightened up significantly and is a key cog in the tight driving forward play that has turned the Reds season in the right direction.
Dave Dennis has been the Waratahs most consistent forward all year. He has scored some excellent tries from 30-40 metre range. He has been a key link player demonstrating a nice passing game to go with his running and is one of the few fit players at the Waratahs who turns up to breakdowns over the full 80 minutes.
Ben Mowen has blossomed as a leader with the Brumbies. The character with which the young Brumbies are playing is a credit to themselves and their captain. His efforts have been strong in the breakdown and some of the freedom with which Hooper gets to operate comes from what his captain is doing well in this area.
All three of Higginbotham, Dennis and Mowen bring strong lineout games. This is key to supporting my second row group of Fardy, Horwill and Douglas – none of whom are jumping specialists.
All three also have high work rates which would help counter the relatively low work rates of Robinson and Palmer who are there for their scrummaging.
It is questionable whether all three of these players can be selected. Do we need a harder running, harder hitting backrower?
The problem is that none of the other candidates are dominating in this area.
For the Reds Jake Schatz looks promising but appears a year or two away. Radike Samo is looking like he is playing a year too long.
Wycliff Palu at the Waratahs is just getting back to playing consistent rugby. He is managing some good carries but his work rate across 80 minutes is letting him down. When he comes off the bench he is missing some explosiveness as well.
His best match was the first half against the Chiefs, we need to see him putting in at least 60 minute performances of that calibre.
Rocky Elsom looks ponderous and is always injured. He does not appear to be the answer.
At the Brumbies Fotu Aluelua has had an injury interrupted year and doesn’t look like he is ready to go up to the next level.
Ita Vaea has had a couple of exceptional games and has looked fantastic at times with ball in hand. I think it was against the Sharks off the bench where he made ten high quality runs in the space of about twenty minutes. Unfortunately he is struggling to make the starting side and has spent a large part of the year in a largely unsuccessful experiment to play him on the open side.
The Rebels best in this space is the Welshman Gareth Delve who is ineligible. Jarrod Saffy is injured. Luke Jones may be a candidate but has been suspended after just one game in the backrow.
At the Force, Ben McCalman and Matt Hodgson have been tried many times for the Wallabies, I don’t think these two are going to show us anything we haven’t seen before.
Ultimately I think a starting back row of Scott Higginbotham, David Pocock and Ben Mowen, with Dave Dennis on the bench, is the form backrow we can put out.
Palu and Vaea are the next two I would look at but they need to clock minutes on the field and add a higher work rate to the efforts they are making in their games. Luke Jones has probably left his run too late with his impressive tackling stats not being enough, given the limited time seeing him in the backrow.
What do we think, Roarers?
Have you seen the new Wallabies jersey? Want one of your own? We're giving away a brand new 2013 Wallabies jersey to one lucky Roarer, click here to go in the running to win.
Do you have what it takes to become a sports writer? Write for the roar
Rugby Union articles
- SPIRO: Beale and Folau brilliant, Mogg subbed (278)
- Deans: Should he stay or should he go? (242)
- I was dead-set wrong about Folau (237)
- What gives with Israel Folau? (184)
- Deans promises ball in hand rugby for Wallabies against Lions (183)
- Quade shouldn’t be fly half against the Lions (180)
- My Lion tamers for 2013 (167)
- Quade Cooper misses Wallaby squad selection (163)
- Wallabies squad announced: Folau in, no Quade Cooper – yet (252)
- Wallabies 2013 Lions Tour squad announcement: Live blog (187)
- Berrick Barnes inspirational in Tahs win over Brumbies (162)
- Picking Quade and Izzy is a no brainer (29)
- Cheetahs vs Reds: Super Rugby live scores, blog (175)
- Leinster win European Challenge Cup (6)
- Wallabies 2013 Lions Tour squad announcement: Live blog (187)
- Picking Quade and Izzy is a no brainer (29)
- Cheetahs vs Reds: Super Rugby live scores, blog (175)
- Waratahs vs Brumbies: Super Rugby live scores, blog (517)
- Wallaby backline options (68)
- An exciting weekend in Australian rugby (1)
- Western Force vs Sharks: Super Rugby live scores, blog (114)
Recommend this story.
- Explore:
- Australia rugby, David Pocock, Rugby Union, Scott Higginbotham, Super Rugby, wallabies



May 23rd 2012 @ 2:36am
Moreton Bait said | May 23rd 2012 @ 2:36am | Report comment
Solid reasoning Jeznez, nothing much to argue with there except I think Simmons has been consistently very good in the air, as always, but also had his best game around the field against the Chiefs, so somewhat reluctantly I’d give the Reds combo another chance against Wales in test 1, but would expect improved performances from both Horwill and Simmons. Wallace-Harrison has been terrific off the bench and earns a chance against Scotland and with his experience & right to be in the mix at lock.
With Hooper and Gill emerging I’d like to see Pocock tried in other backrow positions. So I’d throw in an option of trying him at #8. We don’t really have anyone cemented into that position. Could be one hell of a mobile backrow. Dennis has been outstanding this season and deserves a chance.
Scotland: 1. Slipper, 2. Charles, 3. Palmer, 4. Sharpe (c), 5. Pyle, 6. Fardy, 7. Robinson, 8. Samo, Subs: Holmes, Hanson, Wallace-Harrison, Vaea/Palu
Wales 1 (4 days later): 1. Robinson, 2. Moore, 3. Kepu, 4. Simmons, 5. Horwill, 6. Higginbotham, 7. Hooper, 8. Pocock Subs: Palmer/Slipper, TPN, Douglas, Dennis
May 23rd 2012 @ 10:44pm
murph said | May 23rd 2012 @ 10:44pm | Report comment
Why would you have Samo? He’s played about 5 mins of good footy this season and can’t even make the Reds. Schatz and a few others deserve a go before Samo
May 23rd 2012 @ 2:37am
bluerose said | May 23rd 2012 @ 2:37am | Report comment
Higginbotham’s combination with Genia at the back of the scrum should continue for the Wallabies, Pocock is a walk in at #7 for the time being but against Scotland i wouldnt mind having Hooper or Gill at #7 with Pocock shifting to the blindside flanker with Higginbotham at #8, it wont be the first time the Wallabies will select 2openside flankers in the run on team (Smith and Waugh in 2003), the down side is that the Wallabies will be lacking in height but will compensate that with 3very hard working trio with tremendous high workrate, Jake White can start Faingaa against the Rebels on that Saturday with Hooper training with the Wallabies, Beau Robinson will be my reserve backrow, he can cover both the 6/7 positions and he adds another high workrate to the Wallabies, so my experimental backrow for the Wallabies against Scotland:
8-Scott Higginbotham.
7-Michael Hooper.
6-David Pocock.
19-Beau Robinson.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:21am
nickoldschool said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:21am | Report comment
Agree with your analysis bluerose: I think Hooper and Gill are more dynamic at n7 than Pocock who is more a tedious/hard working backrower, i.e. a blindside flank in the long term.
Pocock at n6, Gill or Hooper at n7, Higginbotham at n8 is my pick too with either Gill or Hooper/Mowen on the bench. Reckon we have 5 world class backrowers in the making. Robinson, McCalman, Palu and Hodgson are good back ups too altough not in the same category imo. Think we have the denser(numbers+ quality) backrow in world rugby at the moment. McCaw, Dusautoir, Robshaw, Warburton or Brussow and maybe a few others are probably above the aussies but dont think these countries have 5-6 players at the same level we do. Scotland and Wales tests will be the perfect occasion to test a couple of newcomers like Hooper or Gill.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:27am
Brett McKay said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:27am | Report comment
Bluerose, I like this combo. Pocock looks more like a blindside every year (in terms of him build), and perhaps it’s because our attention has been taken by what Hooper and Gill are doing at openside that it feels like Pocock hasn’t been as effective there in 2012. It’s all perception of course; the stats will probably say Pocock is right there with the young bucks.
Higginbotham at 6 hasn’t fully grabbed me in the last few years – when playing for Australia, at least – but he’s really won me over at no.8 this year. I’d be keeping him there, I think. There’s far more option at blindside than there is the back.
My only variation to yours here is Robinson on the bench. I think I’d find room for someone like Hodgson, who can cover 6-7-8 quite well (but with the instruction that any stupid penalties in the last 20 will see him tarred and feathered in the foyer at St.Leonards) OR someone like Dennis or Mowen to cover 6 and 8, which would then Pocock over to 7 as needed..
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:35am
Justin2 said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:35am | Report comment
Brett similar thoughts re Robinson on the bench. I thought he was so stiff not to make the WC squad but he has been overtaken by Hoops/GIll.
I wouldnt have a jack of all trades on the bench if you already have Pocock and a genuine fetcher on the field. I would be looking for a Vaea type who can really shake things up in the back 30mins.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:40am
jeznez said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Gee that is a lot of opensides guys. Starting with two of them and having a third on the bench says you want to take the game enormously up tempo.
Brett, Pocock may look like a blindside but he is still an out and out ball thief. I’m generally looking for a little lineout strength, heavy defence in the narrow channels and hopefully some ball running from my six. Pocock is a tackler and fetcher, he’d need to start carrying the ball more strongly before I’d look to move him to another spot and we’d be weakening the lineout with that move.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:45am
Brett McKay said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:45am | Report comment
yeah, that’s a fair point Jez, about Pocock’s ball carrying. And certainly the lineout isn’t as variable with Pocock at 6.
Re size, I’ve mentioned this before, but if you didn’t know who was who and saw Pocock and Hodgson side by side, you’d swear Hodgson was the obvious openside by looking at them. Pocock seems to have a Matthew Hayden-type build now, he’s massive across the shoulders and chest. Their official numbers sy there’s only 1cm and 1kg between them, but it looks like so much more than that in the flesh..
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:49am
jeznez said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:49am | Report comment
I’ve heard you say that before and believe you. Then again I think they are both opensides and Hodgson is playing out of position because of the quality of Pocock. Frankly I think Brown is an openside as well.
May 23rd 2012 @ 1:40pm
pjbreck said | May 23rd 2012 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
This may sound a little out there, but with Pocock bulking up so much, what about trying to convert him to a hooker? I know wacky thought hey? But Mealamu was a flanker turned hooker, what a success Mealamu has been as a rake! And something tells me that TPN may have also started on the side of the scrum.
I firmly believe that Phil Waugh should have converted. He had the build, and certainly the head, for a hooker.
May 23rd 2012 @ 1:42pm
jeznez said | May 23rd 2012 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
interesting thought pj – not that far fetched.
May 23rd 2012 @ 1:48pm
Moreton Bait said | May 23rd 2012 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
Pocock’s running and handling is not quite in the George Smith class, but is improving, so I do think he could move around the backrow a la G Smith. He certainly has the pysicality and has carried and offloaded well in recent tests. But let’s be sensible right now (and accommodate Hooper / Gill later) he’s probably best kept at 7.
So my revised lineup would be:
6 Dennis
7 Pocock
8 Higginbotham (Palu / Vaea off the bench)
Wish Higginbotham would cut out those one handed line out takes and pick-ups!
May 23rd 2012 @ 10:45pm
murph said | May 23rd 2012 @ 10:45pm | Report comment
Hooper, Pocock and Robinson?
Are you planning on winning any lineouts?
May 23rd 2012 @ 4:02am
kingplaymaker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 4:02am | Report comment
I think if you have Palu at 8, S.Timani lock and TPN hooker you can afford to have a lighter player such as Higginbotham at 6.
Vaea and L.Timani are ideal bench players. Vaea can cover 6,7 and 8 while L. Timani can cover 4,5, 6 and 8.
If it turns out that even with Palu, S.Timani and TPN there isn’t enough power you could start Vaea and L.Timani at 6.
Robinson, TPN, Kepu, Horwill, S.Timani, Higginbotham, Pocock, Palu, with Palmer, Moore, Vaea and L.Timani on the bench.
May 23rd 2012 @ 6:29am
Red Kev said | May 23rd 2012 @ 6:29am | Report comment
I am surprised by this new and interesting observation by kpm!
News Flash bro – TPN won’t be the starting hooker because Moore is better, and the Timani boys won’t make the side because they’re not good enough.
Vaea is a maybe although doubtful, and despite form, fitness and work rate I would be very surprised to see Deans select anyone other than Palu at 8.
May 23rd 2012 @ 6:53am
Max Power said | May 23rd 2012 @ 6:53am | Report comment
You’d certainly have plenty of power at every fifth ruck with that team.
May 23rd 2012 @ 7:07am
kingplaymaker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 7:07am | Report comment
Max Power if you wanted a power pack and nothing else you’d play Robinson, TPN, Kepu, S.Timani, L.Timani, Vaea, Pocock, Palu.
May 23rd 2012 @ 7:25am
Red Kev said | May 23rd 2012 @ 7:25am | Report comment
However you would lose at least 50% of your lineout ball and probably give up possession every third breakdown because only Pocock would get there and he would becounter rucked out the way by the four fitter forwards from the opposing pack who would arrive while TPN and Palu and Timani tried to pick themselves up off the floor from the previous breakdown.
May 23rd 2012 @ 7:41am
kingplaymaker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
RK that’s not true, you’re just assuming the others have a low work-rate because they’re powerful. Why do you think a powerful player cannot have a high workrate?
May 23rd 2012 @ 7:48am
Red Kev said | May 23rd 2012 @ 7:48am | Report comment
They can but the ones you named don’t.
May 23rd 2012 @ 7:56am
kingplaymaker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 7:56am | Report comment
None of them? Isn’t that a funny coincidence that all the powerful players can’t do it and all the non-powerful ones can?
May 23rd 2012 @ 8:07am
Ben S said | May 23rd 2012 @ 8:07am | Report comment
It’s not a coincidence at all. Another Roarer, Justin, proved that Moore has a far higher workrate than TPN, and I given that the two Timanis have had such stunted involvement this season you;d be hard pressed to suggest they have a high work rate.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:04am
Justin2 said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
KPM – I am sure if you wanted to you could do some analytical work from a site such as rugby heaven. That will show us the work rate of your power players/highlight reel specials you so love.
Go on, for us, please?
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:28am
jeznez said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:28am | Report comment
KPM, your Power Packs are chock full of Waratahs. I’m a Waratah supporter but even I have to admit with my side fourth out of the Aussie conference and 11th overall that loading up on Tahs is unlikely to cut it in the test arena.
Against the Brumbies we had Robinson, Polota-Nau, Kepu, Timani, Douglas and Palu – all power players with Lopeti Timani on the bench another power player. Up against the Brumbies who only had Auelua and Vaea from your power bunch.
The Brumbies won the match, the Waratahs dominated early and made huge busts but by the thirty minute mark were blowing hard. Both Brumbies tries came after periods where they were able to maintain ruck ball for extended periods of time.
The Powerful Pack were not able to get the ball off a pack that you consider weak. Your conviction is amazing but why will we get a better result out of these guys in a gold jersey than we will in a sky blue one? Are you so convinced that Robbie Deans a former fullback will dramatically turn around the performance of our forwards?
A lot of the issue with the Tahs pack is conditioning, they just aren’t fit enough to put in 80 minutes. Has Robbie got a magic wand that can significantly lift these guy’s cardio levels? Only an offseason provides enough time to do that.
Please explain what will be different if you select six Waratahs in the Wallabies starting pack.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:38am
kingplaymaker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:38am | Report comment
‘Your conviction is amazing but why will we get a better result out of these guys in a gold jersey than we will in a sky blue one? Are you so convinced that Robbie Deans a former fullback will dramatically turn around the performance of our forwards?’
I think Deans is 1000000000000000000000 times the coach Foley is and these players will scarcely resemble their former selves under his tutelege. That goes for the conditioning too: any problem under Deans’ control will be far superior to that under Foley.
The problem with the Waratahs is they have a hopeless backline that can make nothing of their often dominant pack. The Reds have far better backs, Genia, Cooper, Ioane, with Sautia and Seuteni in the pipeline and other good players.
Now a combination of the Waratahs forwards and Reds backs would be pretty impressive.
That wasn’t by the way my starting pack, but an example of a pack chosen for pure unadulterated power.
My starting pack was the one I gave higher up: Robinson, TPN, Kepu, Horwill, S.Timani, Higginbotham, Pocock, Palu. So that makes four Waratahs. I would, by the way, have no Waratahs in the rest of the team if Cooper is fit except very possibly Barnes but probably not, which shows how much better I think the Waratahs forwards are than their backs and how it is the backs that lose the matches.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:47am
jeznez said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:47am | Report comment
KPM, so why couldn’t the Waratahs get the ball off the Brumbies in the lead up to those tries? The weight of possession that led to both tries were not a problem with the backs. The Tahs pack just couldn’t get the ball off a pack that was working harder as a unit.
One on one power is great. Individually Sitaleki Timani at 120kg out powers the 110kg Sam Carter but as soon as Scott Fardy at 113kg turns up the Brumbies have a 103kg advantage – I guarantee you that the Brumbies win that contact every time.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:51am
Red Kev said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:51am | Report comment
Conditioning work has to be done pre-season. After that it is too late to significantly improve aerobic fitness of athletes that are playing matches every weekend.
The problem is not the Waratahs backline, it is that the Waratahs forwards can dominate the scrum but aren’t fit enough to dominate the breakdown or good enough to dominate the lineout. Scrums are only one aspect of forward play which is something you seem to completely overlook all the time in your posts KPM.
Your proposed pack will get towelled up by Wales.
Also – Deans is a crap coach.
May 23rd 2012 @ 12:04pm
kingplaymaker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
RK my proposed pack is very close to what will be put out against Wales so it will be obvious.
The idea the Waratahs backline is good is nuts, and the Waratahs forwards have frequently dominated the breakdown.
Also, Deans has achieved infinitely more as a coach than you ever have so I wouldn’t go about referring to him too derogatively.
May 23rd 2012 @ 12:14pm
Red Kev said | May 23rd 2012 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
“RK my proposed pack is very close to what will be put out against Wales so it will be obvious.”
“Robinson, TPN, Kepu, S.Timani, L.Timani, Vaea, Pocock, Palu.”
You’ll get 4 out of 8 (Robinson, Kepu, Pocock, Palu) which does not equal “very close.
I should rephrase – Robbie Deans is a crap Wallabies coach. He was a very good Crusaders coach, for whatever reason he is unable to perform as a Wallabies coach. Good coaches get their players to play well – even if they lose they still play well, they just get out played. Deans’ Wallabies do not do this. Whatever the reason is (lack of communication, poor rapport, lack of trust, no gameplan, or something else entirely) Deans has failed as the Wallaby coach.
May 23rd 2012 @ 12:19pm
jeznez said | May 23rd 2012 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
KP, not going to answer the question?
Why couldn’t the powerful Tahs forwards get the ball back off the weakling Brumbies pack in the lead up to those tries?
The second try came after about fifteen phases, surely the superior power would have enabled the Tahs forwards to counter ruck at least one of those fifteen phases?
May 23rd 2012 @ 12:30pm
kingplaymaker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Rk I still wouldn’t refer to him that derogatively.
I gave two different packs, one a Wallabies starting pack and the other a pack not to be necessarily selected but just to show what the most powerful combination would be. The first has four Waratahs.
jeznez perhaps it was lightweights such as Dennis and Douglas letting the pack down.
Also however talented the Waratahs pack is abominably coached while White is one of the very best coaches, and especially forwards coaches, in the world.
May 23rd 2012 @ 12:39pm
Red Kev said | May 23rd 2012 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
If I was writing a letter to Deans or a recommendation to the ARU board I’d use the word “poor”.
As I essentially talking with other rugby fans in a forum not dissimilar to talking over a pint at a pub I’ll stick with “crap”.
As for your pack, sorry that is my mistake I didn’t read that far back to check:
“Robinson, TPN, Kepu, Horwill, S.Timani, Higginbotham, Pocock, Palu, with Palmer, Moore, Vaea and L.Timani”
I will go with
Robinson, Moore, Kepu, Simmons, Horwill, Dennis, Pocock, Higginbotham with TPN, Slipper, Pyle, and Mowen on the bench.
I imagine we’ll both be slightly wrong it will be interesting to see which is closer to the pack against Wales on June 9.
May 23rd 2012 @ 12:47pm
jeznez said | May 23rd 2012 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
KPM, you missed a trick there. You should have blamed Mumm.
I’m continually amazed that you call the 123kg Douglas, the heaviest man in the Waratahs pack a lightweight.
You know that the stronger second rower gets packed in the 5 spot behind the tighthead don’t you? Have you noticed that when Douglas and Sitaleki Timani are on the field that Douglas packs in the 5 spot? His coaches think he is a more powerful scrummager than your power favourite Timani. You can’t see that though can you?
May 23rd 2012 @ 1:38pm
kingplaymaker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
jeznez the loose interests me more as far as locks go although they obviously need to be able to push.
Size and power are different it should be noted, as are size and athleticism. One large player can be as powerful as an ant while another large player is as powerful as an anaconda.
May 23rd 2012 @ 3:35pm
bmwwilliams said | May 23rd 2012 @ 3:35pm | Report comment
KPM,
I’m afraid that proposed pack is absolutely ridiculous. You’ve picked on some ridiculous notion of ‘power’, which as far as I can see doesn’t translate at all into ‘effective on the field’ or even ‘good at rugby’.
TPN obviously has his moments, but needs to drastically alter/develop his game if he is to become a consistent 80 minute performer (who can stay on the field).
S. Timani has done absolutely nothing to show he deserves a call up to test level. Significant work is needed on his skill and fitness levels. The idea that he will suddenly turn into a superstar under Deans is ridiculous – or is the requirement for a Test call up now ‘has potential’??
Palu hasn’t done anything since his return to suggest the no.8 jersey should be his this year either.
Take off the sky blue glasses and have a think about who have been the most effective forwards in Aus this year – as jez did in this article.
May 23rd 2012 @ 3:41pm
Justin2 said | May 23rd 2012 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
Stop talkin sense BMW! You wont get a reasoned or researched answer back I am afraid. I am still waiting for answers to pretty easy questions above ;(
May 23rd 2012 @ 6:34am
Zapped said | May 23rd 2012 @ 6:34am | Report comment
Good stuff, Jez. Elsom had a horror show on the weekend and played himself out of contention for the Wales test while Higgers probably played well enough to get the 8 jersey. But it will probably go to Palu to make up the numbers for Tahs representation. Is anybody talking to Palu to convince him he could take over a game if he went at it? Robin McBride might be able to do it but I doubt he’ll volunteer.
Wales will probably play, if fit, Wyn Jones (6 feet 6, 120k) and Charteris (6 feet 10, 130) in the boiler room so I’d go for the best oomph we’ve got to partner Horwill, like Kane Douglas at 6 feet 8, 123k.
May 23rd 2012 @ 10:44am
Harry said | May 23rd 2012 @ 10:44am | Report comment
We dont want soft losers from New South Wales in the Wallabies pack {in SOO mode}.
Less stridently, I believe Pyle, Simmons and Carter are all better options to partner Horwill than Douglas. I would start with Pyle.
And I am not convinced that Dennis is up to test matches. My starting backrow would be Higgers at 6, Pocock at 7 and Mowem at 8, with a bench of Hooper (could play dual opensides in the last 20 minutes) and the strong running Brumbies backrower Auelua to provide impact.
May 23rd 2012 @ 6:50am
kingplaymaker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 6:50am | Report comment
Can I quote you on all that?
May 23rd 2012 @ 7:30am
Ben S said | May 23rd 2012 @ 7:30am | Report comment
What is a power pack? What does that actually mean? You keep using that term without explaining what the core duties of the players would be,
May 23rd 2012 @ 2:48pm
soapit said | May 23rd 2012 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
forwards who can bust clean through tackles, make big hits, that kind of thing
May 23rd 2012 @ 10:01pm
Ben S said | May 23rd 2012 @ 10:01pm | Report comment
So what would the core duties of the players be? Which player/s would run the lineouts or restarts? Who would scrummage behind which prop etc? Forward play is more complicated than being able to break a tackle.
May 23rd 2012 @ 10:23pm
jeznez said | May 23rd 2012 @ 10:23pm | Report comment
sssssshhhhhhhh Ben, KP was a winger – the notion of tight co-ordinated teamwork happening inside may be alien to him. The ball just used to turn up out there every now and then – that just happens.
May 24th 2012 @ 9:34am
Ben S said | May 24th 2012 @ 9:34am | Report comment
A winger for whom? Brigadoon RFC?
May 23rd 2012 @ 7:49am
Turnover said | May 23rd 2012 @ 7:49am | Report comment
KPM, surely the only reason you post on here is to get a reaction. Moore is way ahead of TPN and get over the Timani boys. Start making suggestions on performance not your own theory’s about ‘power’.
Moving on.
Well written article. Enjoyable.
For me:
6. Dave Dennis
7. David Pocock
8. Scott Higinbotham
I think Dave Dennis deserves first crack at No.6. He has been strong with ball in hand this year and he is the type of guy that would front up against the South Africans and any other physical pack.
Pocock picks himself. Higginbotham has a lot of Adam Thomson in his game. Often found out wide in support and therefore open to criticism about his tight work. He has improve this in 2012 but also his running game is to strong to ignore.
Hooper deserves a mention but with a 6 and 8 who are playing so well, I don’t think you need to move Pocock to fit him in.
May 23rd 2012 @ 7:56am
Red Kev said | May 23rd 2012 @ 7:56am | Report comment
I wish Hooper were bigger, he has the game to be such a dominant number eight, just not the size.
May 23rd 2012 @ 8:03am
Turnover said | May 23rd 2012 @ 8:03am | Report comment
I agree. But on a positive note, next time Australia faces an international without Pocock, all is not lost.
May 23rd 2012 @ 1:54pm
Rob from Brumby Country said | May 23rd 2012 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
Hooper’s young and still growing, I imagine that he will put on a bit more bulk over the next few years. I just hope that the Waratahs haven’t completely ruined him by the time he gets to a good size for Test rugby.
He won’t necessarily ever be a number 8, mark you.
May 23rd 2012 @ 2:08pm
dassie said | May 23rd 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
that is a hope in vain, but when he matures and heads to the Rebels he will be worlds best
May 23rd 2012 @ 10:33pm
Markus said | May 23rd 2012 @ 10:33pm | Report comment
I’m still hoping he misses being in a real tight-knit team and ends up wanting to return to the Brumbies.
So long as he confesses his sins I’m sure he will be welcomed back
May 23rd 2012 @ 8:02am
kingplaymaker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 8:02am | Report comment
Turnover you should note your backrow is a feeble assembly of scarecrows that would be torn limb from limb.
May 24th 2012 @ 9:36am
Ben S said | May 24th 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Actually, the players listed aren’t small. Compare them to other Test players.
May 23rd 2012 @ 7:54am
kingplaymaker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Turnover you’ll be eating some humble pie in a month or two you’ll see.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:02am
rl said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:02am | Report comment
Just remember that cuts both ways KPM
May 23rd 2012 @ 10:06pm
Ben S said | May 23rd 2012 @ 10:06pm | Report comment
Like that humble pie after L. Timani conceded that try to the Bulls?
May 23rd 2012 @ 8:03am
Shungmao said | May 23rd 2012 @ 8:03am | Report comment
For Wales:
Robinson Moore. Slipper
Douglas. Howill
Pocock. Palu. Higgingbotham
Res: TPN, Kepu, Simmons , Mowen,
May 23rd 2012 @ 8:37am
AndyS said | May 23rd 2012 @ 8:37am | Report comment
While I certainly understand the appetite to get out there and test all the young prospects in June, it is perhaps worth remembering that the rankings at the end of this year determine the pools for 2015. A loss to Scotland would put Australia no more than a short head in front of the three behind…
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:36am
jeznez said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:36am | Report comment
So Andy are you proposing playing the pack that played the world cup with just Robinson coming back in? I think that is more likely where Deans will head.
I’ve basically picked one uncapped front rower as I think he will fix an area of weakness. In the second row Vickerman is injured and Simmons has been getting beaten up for a couple of years so I have replaced with what I think are the best available candidates. In the back row I just don’t think Elsom, Palu or Samo are doing anything to warrant being selected.
I still won’t be surprised at all (I’ll be in disagreement but won’t be surprised) if for the Wales test the pack looks like this:
1. Benn Robinson
2. Stephen Moore
3. Sekope Kepu
4. Rob Simmons
5. James Horwill
6. Rocky Elsom
7. David Pocock
8. Wycliff Palu
16. Tatafu Polota-Nau
17. James Slipper
18. Nathan Sharpe
19. Scott Higginbotham
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:43am
Red Kev said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:43am | Report comment
If Deans selects Elsom in the training squad let alone the starting XV he wants firing on the spot.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:51am
jeznez said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:51am | Report comment
Agree, but then again I am expecting to be dissapointed when Holmes gets ignored for Cowan in the Scotland game which I think is an equivalent offence.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:53am
Justin2 said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:53am | Report comment
Its is RD after all…
May 23rd 2012 @ 8:42am
Blue Blood said | May 23rd 2012 @ 8:42am | Report comment
I have to disagree with one point made:
“At the Force, Ben McCalman and Matt Hodgson have been tried many times for the Wallabies, I don’t think these two are going to show us anything we haven’t seen before.”
How has Hodgson been tested? He has played one start for a test in the game that shall not be mentioned where not one player played well and he had no support at the breakdown. He has always looked great and had good tackle and pilfer stats for the very few bench minutes he has had due to Deans’ inability to use his bench effectively. He has won player of the day twice for midweek Wallaby games in teams packed with established Wallabies. I’m not sure what more he has to do to get some recognition? At Super level he is the complete package. Runs, tackles, pilfered and is the go to line out jumper after Sharpe at the Force. Twice winning player of the year in teams filled with Wallabies (2009 he won over 11 Guys in the Wallaby Squad).
Pocock has been solid this year because he has been able to share the job equally with Hodgson. Hodgson has outplayed Pocock in at least 3 games. This weekend was another example with a man of the match winning performance.
I’m not arguing that he will be here ripping it up at the next world cup. But the lack of respect for his talents in the media has always been disappointing. Richie Mccaw was once asked what he thought of Hodgson and he said that “as a player you underestimate him because of his size, then every game he reminds you why you shouldn’t underestimate him. He is the deal deal.” and if you want to know who asked him, it was me.
May 23rd 2012 @ 9:12am
Wilson said | May 23rd 2012 @ 9:12am | Report comment
I’m with you mate. Taking nothing away from some of the great young talent coming through, but Hodgson has been underutilised the last 3 years by Deans. The World Cup omission was Deans at his illogical best and see how well that panned out. Pocock always plays his best with Hodgon doing the tag team with him. Very few of the others master the breakdown as well. And if we are looking at combinations from Super that should stay together it is Pocock and Hodgo on my shortlist. Too much is made of Pocock in isolation. Hodgson is the forgotten man indeed.
May 23rd 2012 @ 9:38am
Red Kev said | May 23rd 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
To my mind Dennis, Mowen and Hodgson are almost interchangeable in the Wallabies make up. All playing very well, all with high work rates, all solid dependable no nonsense members of the back row. You just get different things from each of them – harder on the ball from Hodgson, better ball carry from Dennis, better in the air and in mauls from Mowen (and probably better loose play ball skills).
Pocock-Hodgson-Higginbotham would be a decent back row. I would worry about the size come lineout time, but two hard on the ball loose forwards and one fast and dynamic ball runner would get the job done in a test match played at pace (which Wales are likely to bring). KPM no doubt thinks they’re too small but I could see them being very effective especially behind a bigger second row than Australia normally selects (such as Horwill, Douglas, Pyle perhaps).
May 23rd 2012 @ 10:57am
kingplaymaker said | May 23rd 2012 @ 10:57am | Report comment
I could indeed see that pack being atomised. A bigger pack was reduced to protons and neutrons last year: this one would end up as quarks.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:10am
Justin2 said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Yeah he probably is under rated. Fair enough call. But he isnt going to be better than Pocock, Gill or Hooper IMO as a 7 and thats the only spot he can play at Test level.
Also interested in his lineout work. I find it hard to believe he is the go to man after Sharpe. Is that really true? Says more about the Force tactics than anything else if it is.
May 23rd 2012 @ 11:18am
jeznez said | May 23rd 2012 @ 11:18am | Report comment
I’m with Justin. I really like Hodgo, I like the way he plays the game and I love his articles here on the Roar.
However he is 31 and he is an openside breakaway that plays out of position at Super level. I want genuine blindside and number 8 players. At 7 he has incredible competition in front of him.
May 23rd 2012 @ 6:03pm
Blue Blood said | May 23rd 2012 @ 6:03pm | Report comment
Yeah Hodgson is the second jumper for the Force. He has the second best vertical leap in the team and check out his gorilla like arms some time. God may have robbed that guy of an inch or two in height but he game him a tall man’s arms. He is also one of the strategy and leadership team. I actually thought that he would be made captain not Pocock given his experience over young Pocock. Until this year Hodgson went to more leadership and strategy meetings than Pocock. His rugby brain is strong and he is a coach and club favourite. But that’s another discussion all together.
I agree that having Hodgson and Pocock in a team together robs you of height, but to date I just haven’t been as impressed with the taller guys at the breakdown. And Hodgson is in the top 10 of the ball carriers stats for the year. I just think his game is well rounded. If nothing else he is a great bench option as he has the ability and smarts to cover 6,7&8.
May 23rd 2012 @ 9:49pm
Blue Blood said | May 23rd 2012 @ 9:49pm | Report comment
And for the record I don’t actually expect Deans to name Hodgson. If he hadn’t shown respect for him by now he never will. Just wishful thinking unfortunately.