Tough times ahead for AFL’s expansion clubs
By Ben Collins, 29 May 2012 Ben Collins is a Roar Rookie
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- AFL, Gary Ablett, Gold Coast Suns, GWS Giants
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As the dust settles following the introduction of the AFL’s newest franchises – the Gold Coast Suns and Greater Western Sydney Giants – it is becoming increasingly clear that both clubs will need a long time to mature on and off the field.
Both young teams have been placed under the microscope in their first years in the league, particularly in the off-season, where they have dominated the first round of the past two drafts.
The Gold Coast Suns are yet to win a game in 2012, as the season draws to its halfway point.
Greater Western Sydney recently won their first game for the season against fellow AFL infants Gold Coast, but have found life in the AFL just as tough as the Suns.
The two clubs’ progress off the field has been harder to gauge. The Gold Coast Suns signed up 14,000 members in their inaugural season of 2011, but have struggled to match that so far in 2012 after finishing last in 2011.
The Suns still have over 2,000 members yet to re-sign as the deadline draws closer.
Greater Western Sydney has signed up 9,000 members so far in 2012 and will struggle to reach Gold Coast’s first-year numbers.
Both clubs have unveiled 25,000 seat stadiums.
While the Giants are only just beginning to host home games at Skoda Stadium (Sydney Showgrounds), the Suns recently celebrated their first anniversary at their home ground Metricon Stadium.
Crowds at Gold Coast home games have declined in 2012, as some of the gloss has worn off the new franchise.
Gold Coast’s opening home game of the year attracted only 12,000 fans, a disappointing result considering the club averaged over 18,000 fans at home games in its opening season.
AFL boss Andrew Demetriou has received criticism for choosing to introduce another team in the rugby heartland of Sydney instead of Tasmania, a state which has a football history almost as long as Victoria.
He has repeatedly said the league is thinking long-term with its expansion and is aware of the early bumps along the road for any new team.
The AFL made the mistake of setting up a poorly resourced club in 1987, when the Brisbane Bears were unveiled.
The process of establishing the Brisbane Bears was rushed, resulting in the team playing their home games an hour away from Brisbane, on the Gold Coast, with sub-standard facilities.
The league has done its due diligence with the introduction of the Suns and Giants, ensuring they had enough time to set up their home grounds and grow a playing list properly. A repeat of the Bears fiasco would have been disastrous.
Just like the Bears, the Suns and Giants have struggled mightily on the field. Although the off-field future of both clubs is looking brighter, the on-field future is just as painful.
The Giants have the youngest playing list in the competition, with an average age of 21. The Suns have the third youngest, with an average age of 22.
The worrying sign is that, aside from drafting, both clubs mainly recruited recycled players who are over 28.
Until the teenagers mature another three or four years, there is a lack of players in the 23-27 year old range generally seen as the prime of an athlete.
Unless both clubs address this at the trade table or national draft in the near future, there is a high likelihood that they will continue to struggle until the boys truly become men in three or four years time.
The draft concessions, which saw them collect a raft of talented younger players in recent years, are now over.
The Suns and Giants would be wise to now look at recruiting more players in that 23-27 year old range who may have been overlooked in previous drafts.
Other clubs languishing down the bottom of the ladder in recent years, such as Melbourne and Port Adelaide, have suffered from the same problem of not having enough players in their primes.
The Gold Coast got the best of them in Gary Ablett, but they have quickly found out he cannot do it on his own.
Those pundits expecting a seamless rise to the top just because of the depth of young talent on both the AFL newbies teams may be in for a surprise.
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May 29th 2012 @ 4:14am
The_Wookie said | May 29th 2012 @ 4:14am | Report comment
say it with me – all together now – “LONG TERM PLAN”
May 29th 2012 @ 7:09am
MV Dave said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:09am | Report comment
Or maybe the people in those areas just ain’t that interested in ‘The Game That Made Australia’…
Also interesting to note the article in today’s Age stating that the Giants have already abandoned the west by moving from their govt funded base at Blacktown. They have secured more govt funds ($2m) to help establish their base closer to the city and further govt $millions to play more home games in Canberra. Seems like the AFL’s version of the Haarlem Globetrotters except their the ones getting flogged each game.
May 29th 2012 @ 7:23am
The_Wookie said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:23am | Report comment
or maybe we’re one year into a TWENTY year plan that is nowhere near the peak.
May 29th 2012 @ 7:34am
MV Dave said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:34am | Report comment
Is that how long the indoctrination process takes?
May 29th 2012 @ 8:29am
The_Wookie said | May 29th 2012 @ 8:29am | Report comment
its how long stuff takes to do propetly when you have the time – and a good deal of money to do it.
May 29th 2012 @ 8:38am
Rough Conduct said | May 29th 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
Wouldn’t “do it properly” mean staying in Blacktown even though they might lose some players, rather than this swift reaction to player discontent?
May 29th 2012 @ 8:41am
The_Wookie said | May 29th 2012 @ 8:41am | Report comment
its nothing to do with player discontent. you show me a single article that quotes a player. You cant. This is about facilities and the fact is they didnt not have all year round facilities at blacktown, they will have their own training facility all year round not 5 minutes from the showgrounds.
May 29th 2012 @ 8:54am
Rough Conduct said | May 29th 2012 @ 8:54am | Report comment
Well none of these young players would dare speak out against the regime. The story is not hard to believe, why would the AFL compliant Age make this up?
May 29th 2012 @ 9:08am
The_Wookie said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
nowhere in the age article does it refer to player complaints or discontent.
It does refer to struggling to keep players, which is possible anyway with the AFL and its draft rules. Draftees sign a basic 2 year contract, if they dont like what they see they can renominate for the draft or ask to be traded. The article does not say they are complaining or are discontent, just that they may become that way in the future if the action hadnt been taken
May 29th 2012 @ 9:29am
Danny said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
The_Wookie . We can all understand that the Blacktown ground would never be available in summer so surely the AFL would’ve known that before they sought funding for the ground from Council & NSW taxpayers and before embarking on their campaign to be a team for Blacktown and Sydney’s west?
I guess they were prepared to put up with it but now they are not. So they lobbied for and got money for a Homebush base.
Now the AFL has Blacktown and Homebush developments when really it should have just got the Homebush one. Smart moves that got them two AFL facilities or just the way it panned out?
People colour it how they want but AFL and Giants have dudded Blacktown and the west.
May 29th 2012 @ 12:22pm
ManInBlack said | May 29th 2012 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
Danny -
the AFL had left it in the hands of the GWS administration. The previous CEO Dale Holmes was squeezed out to allow Dave Matthews to come into town and pretty well get the ship back on course – so, when you say “surely the AFL would’ve known” – it actually might not have at the time and might’ve made a couple of ‘wtf’ type comments in the back of house when they realised what was going on.
Just a thought.
So, I don’t think the end result of Blacktown and RAS was the initial blue print – - if it were, then Dale Holmes would still be GWS CEO!!!
May 29th 2012 @ 9:16am
Redb said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Cant train on a cricket oval is it that hard to understand. The GWS CEO lost his job due to this poor planning.
May 29th 2012 @ 1:07pm
Been said | May 29th 2012 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
Will the AFL and GWS refund the rate payers of Blacktown?
May 29th 2012 @ 1:54pm
Redb said | May 29th 2012 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
Has
May 29th 2012 @ 1:09pm
Lazy Ted Failyou said | May 29th 2012 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
This whole issue of expansion really has brought more questions than answers about the Australian people as a whole.
# In the USA as opposed to Australia, cities such as Philadelphia and Dallas(just two examples) were accomadating and supportive of hockey teams(a Canadian sport) that were introduced in non hockey towns. The people there seem to be more open to outside thinking than here.
# The dislike of Aussie rules footy in NSW is more to do with history than not liking the sport. People have closed minds or maybe they are easily led by the parochial press like Ray Mossop and that blonde lady who is married to an NRL boss(just to name two journos).
This seems to go on all around the nation with politics, sports(the test team selection bias), we are essentially closer to the EU and the Union of America culturally speaking. We don’t really like each other.
May 29th 2012 @ 7:46pm
jdubya said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:46pm | Report comment
That is not a valid answer.
In a business expansion you can’t go to your boss and say we “have a long term plan” to justify why the targets aren’t being met. You can’t justify funneling money into a project that isn’t getting immediate results and by all measures doesn’t look to be improving much in the future. You can continue shouting LONG TERM PLAN as much as you want but it doesn’t hide the fact that GWS and the Suns are sponging of the AFLs cash and that it isn’t a viable arrangement. If the AFL wants to take it seriously they would have to get both clubs off the teet ASAP and stop harping on about a 20 year plan. Improvements need to seen every week, they aren’t just going to come out of nowhere in the distant future.
May 29th 2012 @ 8:18pm
Brewski said | May 29th 2012 @ 8:18pm | Report comment
What do you actually think the AFL’S cash is for ?, the AFL run and develop the game of Australian football, that is their charter, what are these measures you are talking about that don’t look to be improving, if you know of any, do not hesitate to put them up.
If you go to your boss and show him a long term plan that has targets, if he is any sort of a decent boss, he will take a decent look.
Many Australian Football fans understand that their will be plenty of problems with both new and existing clubs, that is the way of the world.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:08pm
jdubya said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:08pm | Report comment
Make all the excuses you want but crowds and interest aren’t going to come from nowhere. You think you would have learnt that by now.
You cannot manufacture demand if it doesn’t exist and you can talk about the kids all you want but the AFL will be lucky to win over a tiny portion in the next 30 years and th only ones who will watch would have already been AFL and Swans fans before GWS.
It seems like the AFL and fans like you have budgeted for everything except failure – which lets face it is the most likely scenario. Poor crowds and TV ratings are going to look very bad in 3 or 4 years as the AFL desperatly tries to keep GWS afloat.
May 30th 2012 @ 9:57am
piesman2011 said | May 30th 2012 @ 9:57am | Report comment
I dont want to get personal. But you dont know what you are talking about.
May 30th 2012 @ 2:41pm
jdubya said | May 30th 2012 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
The response of someone with noting to offer.
I know that GWS will fail and I know that you have nothing to prove otherwise.
May 30th 2012 @ 3:00pm
Brewski said | May 30th 2012 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
You don’t know any such thing Jdubya, you just live in hope for something to fail, thats what haters do.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:07am
piesman2011 said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Jdubya,
Where do I start with the wrongness (is that a word) of this post.
Your statement “The interest aren’t going to come from nowhere”
My response “What do you think happened with the Sydney Swan they started with crowds around the 5000 mark now they average around 25000.
Your statement “You cannot manufacture demand if it doesn’t exist”.
My counter argument: What do you do, when you have a new product that is intevative but has never been seen before (therefore there is no demand for it yet)? This is what you do. You advertise this new product, you create a demand for it because it is useful for the people who buy it.
Most of your statement is pure speculation: eg the AFL will be lucky to win over a tiny portion in the next 30 years. Eg Poor crowds and TV ratings are going to look very bad in 3 to 4 years as the AFL desperatly tires to keep GWS afloat. Sounds like you are an expert on football marketing and AFL finances both at the same time. I state again: You dont know what you are talking about.
I could make similar statements from an opposite point of view and be just as ignorant.
May 29th 2012 @ 7:08am
Swampy said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:08am | Report comment
Crikey it’s year 2 and year 1 for the franchises respectively. Neither was ever thinking finals in year 3.
Crowds in the short term don’t matter – the afl has prepared itself for this.
GWS and GC are in much stronger positions than say NM, Melb and PA. The AFL would be far more concerned about the size of the supporter base & the relative incomes to expenses at those 3 clubs.
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May 29th 2012 @ 7:27am
Danny said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:27am | Report comment
I think the criticism from non AFL fans that is coming up now is just a reaction to two years of AFL media and staff talking it up so much & how successful the AFL, Giants & Suns will be.
We didn’t get these “we’re in it for the long term not instant success” stories until now.
I’m sure for many in AFL the lackluster response from Sydney & the GC to AFL has come as a big surprise. Many believed the only reason AFL hadn’t won over the league states was simply because the AFL had never seriously tried to.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:10am
The_Wookie said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
we’ve been saying it since they were first created. And while the states will never be truly AFL in the way the southern and western parts of the country are, the reason the AFL isnt more popular than it is is due to a lack of real effort on the AFLs behalf.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:27am
me, I like football said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Have you been hiding under a rock it’s always been a long term plan for the AFL and they have never said otherwise.
May 29th 2012 @ 12:32pm
ManInBlack said | May 29th 2012 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
all the ‘beat up’ media coverage was driven from the NRL perspective. The AFL has always been about long term plans. The Sydney based News Ltd especially coverage has been pushing the ‘code wars’ tripe from day 1. The AFL hasn’t.
That’s where people have to look at an article in a paper like the Telegraph and ask themselves – who is writing this. And why. All the time keeping mindful of the vested interest that News Ltd has (and had to a greater degree) in the NRL.
May 29th 2012 @ 2:33pm
Pogue Mahone said | May 29th 2012 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
C’mon mate, it’s too easy to blame the media. The AFL certainly played their part in turning it into a code war. The signing of Karmichael Hunt and Israel Folau was quite a hostile move on the AFL’s behalf.
May 29th 2012 @ 6:40pm
Norm said | May 29th 2012 @ 6:40pm | Report comment
“it’s too easy to blame the media”. Indeed! Many of the soccer bloggers on The Roar blame the media for soccer’s low standing. And if you believed the NRL bloggers, the AFL’s success is primarily due to all the media coverage it gets.
Even on The Roar standard media approach is evident. EG: in this article Ben implies that it was Demetriou who decided on the expansion teams, GWS & GC. It was actually a long process involving various people & research. The decision was made by the AFL Commission. Demetriou is the CEO & a good mouth-piece. Behind every CEO is a board & staff. The growth of the AFL is due to all of them, to say nothing of the thousands of members & volunteers right across our country.
Thank goodness the AFL abandoned private ownership with the Swans!
May 29th 2012 @ 7:19pm
The Link said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:19pm | Report comment
ManInBlack – frightingly naive. The AFL’s prescise strategy has been to stir up media interest. Media exposure is the metric often quoted re the ‘success’ of Folau and Hunt.
May 29th 2012 @ 8:25am
hog said | May 29th 2012 @ 8:25am | Report comment
The problem both these clubs have is exactly the same as expansion clubs (storm/rebels) have in melb, you immediately tap into the existing local or expat support for that code but then you have to expand the interest to locals to what is generally a foreign sport to them.
And that is not easy you only have to look at the Brisbane bears, Sydney Swans, and Melbourne storm after 10-20 years have any of those clubs actually made serious inroads to the traditional markets they have been placed.
May 29th 2012 @ 8:28am
The_Wookie said | May 29th 2012 @ 8:28am | Report comment
10-20 years NO WAY that wouldnt be why the AFL placed a 20 year timetable on this by any chance. NO ONE went into this believing it was a short term plan for immediate gain.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:33pm
Gleeso said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:33pm | Report comment
However Hog, that is not entirely accurate as the AFL is not at all foreign to Western Sydney. It is worth pointing out that unlike the examples in your post Western Sydney has had an AFL team for thirty years. And the Swans actualy had some Western Sydney representation. Additionally, sadly, there has for some time been more AFL on TV in Western Sydney than Rugby League.
There is not a curiosity about AFL in Western Sydney. Also the NRL will be spending far more in WS over the next thirty years than the AFL. Maybe three times as much.
Currently, the crowds will indeed get worse. I see sub 6k crowds around the corner. Make no mistake that the none AFL sporting nation will take pleasure in it.
May 29th 2012 @ 8:28am
Mark Young said | May 29th 2012 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Can someone from the AFL side of things tell me why Gold Coast are still so bad?
On the field I mean.
They have (whom I’m told) the best AFL player in a generation, and a ton of good draft picks, but they seem to just be awful.
On the field.
GWS appear to be heading to a similar level of rubbish
On the field
What is going on here?
If the Socceroos can all get together a few days before a big match and then perform, how can these teams, that have been preparing to play for years and years, still be so bad.
On the field
May 29th 2012 @ 8:39am
The_Wookie said | May 29th 2012 @ 8:39am | Report comment
your playing kids against teams consisting of bigger and more experienced men. Both sides went for youth with a sprinking of experience and this I believe was a faulty plan for the demographic areas targetted. There are plenty of experienced players running around the state leagues that the AFL should have forced them to take, instead of uncompetitive 18 year olds.
That said Melbourne, the leagues oldest team are having the same problem, and its what happens when you blindly follow a youth program.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:10am
Mark Young said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Thanks Wook
(Slightly tongue in cheek, but only slightly)
Rather then a bunch of Melbourne teens who are eventually going to be good, don’t you think that the people of Western Sydney would more embrace a bunch of local hardheads who lack the experience and silken skills of the better players from Melbourne, but make up for it with size and brute strength and managed to semi-maim a bunch of their opponents each and every flogging?
Anyway, this is the AFLs issue to ponder, enjoy the rest of your season!
May 29th 2012 @ 9:16am
The_Wookie said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Id have loved to see an organically grown club spring up with under 19s and reserves and seniors, but thats just not how the AFL is done anywhere in the country any more, and I think we’re all slightly worse oiff for it in terms of a clubs connection with its community.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:18am
Redb said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Mark,
Name the Melbourne teens in the Melbourne Storm senior squad.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:34am
Cameron said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:34am | Report comment
How many Victorian born and bred players have ever played for the Storm?
Compare this to the many Sydney born and bred players that have played for the Swans.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:03am
Mark Young said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:03am | Report comment
I don’t get it?? More details??
May 29th 2012 @ 10:06am
Redb said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
That much is obvious.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:12am
Mark Young said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:12am | Report comment
Now now Redb no need to be cheeky.
I was suggesting that GWS would be more popular with less talented locals then they would with super talented out of town teens that will eventually be awesome.
You asked how many local teens there are in the Storm squad
There are none, and the team is not popular in Melbourne.
Are you agreeing with me??
Didn’t you have a win on the weekend anyway? Shouldn’t you be happy???
May 29th 2012 @ 10:38am
Cameron said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:38am | Report comment
You don’t get it? Take a look at the dozens of players that have come out of NSW over the years, some of them legends of the game,(Wayne Carey, Shane Crawford, Lenny Hayes {from Sydney}) and you will see, and yes some even from western Sydney. Paul Bevan, who played for the Swans from 2004-2011 is from western Sydney, so was Greg Stafford, who also played for the Swans
May 29th 2012 @ 10:03am
me, I like football said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Mark Young wahts’s this obsession with AFL players from Melbourne? Less than a quarter of the leagues players come from Melbourne
May 29th 2012 @ 10:07am
Mark Young said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:07am | Report comment
Hiya
Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth, anywhere but Western Sydney really, I should have said.
I don’t know if it is a good idea to have a bunch of talented blokes play out of area in any sport, people would rather watch local talent.
But as I said earlier, this is for you guys to consider, not me as an F1/League fan.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:33am
clipper said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:33am | Report comment
Mark – it may be a case of the chicken / egg syndrome. If we check back in 10 years time and see if there are any West Sydney players, we may get a clearer idea if putting a team out west has generated many more participants – after all the Storm have been there for nearly 15 years and still haven’t got any Melbourne players in their squad, so if the same happens to the Giants you can say that the experiment was not a success.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:47pm
Gleeso said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:47pm | Report comment
The thing I dont get is the assumption that these kids will be awesome in three or four years time. How can there be any degree of certainty in that? Is this the nature of the game? In any other code put a team of teenies together agsainst men and you ruin all of them . God, it would not even happen at American college level.
As I said I dont get it. It is suggestive of a real softness to the competition that this could even be contemplated by the games own fans.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:52pm
The Cattery said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:52pm | Report comment
Gleeso
your post doesn’t even make any sense.
In case you haven’t noticed, these teenagers are getting absolutely flogged, despite being the cream of the cream as far as draft picks go.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:15am
Redb said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
Your frame of reference is odd comparing start up teams to a representative team for a start.
Ablett is 1 player out of 18, 22 if you include the bench,
GC and GWS have at least half their teams filled with 18-19 year olds, most AFL clubs might blood 1, maybe 2 at most in the senior team for the majority of the AFL season. GC and GWS have 10-12. They are simply not match fit nor big enough to contend with senior AFL bodies built up over 5-6 preseasons. AFL footy is by far the toughest aerobic football code to play.
GC have a rookie coach who could do with more experienced assist coaches, GWS seem to be coached fairly well to date.
In 2-4 years, both will be much better than they are now.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:17am
GCS said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
That is about as naive a comment as I have read, comparing the Socceroos to the Suns and GWS. Put a Socceroos team out, where 2/3 of the team are in their second year of senior football, and we will see how they go. The Suns are better this year, but they just can’t put four quarters together.
May 29th 2012 @ 12:53pm
Mark Young said | May 29th 2012 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
You are right GCS I should’ve used the Socceroos as an example.
The Melbourne Rebels managed to be competitive a lot quicker then the Suns have, And the Gold Coast Titans have done something similar. The Melbourne Heart managed to hit the ground running best of all probably.
I was just wondering why the two new AFL clubs are having such a different experience.
Normally in League, when a team is rubbish, it is because everyone hates the coach or the attitidue of the team is terrible.
But what is clear from reading you, Wookie, Redb and Australian Rules is that the strategy is to have a youth team running around.
Cheers!
May 29th 2012 @ 2:13pm
GCS said | May 29th 2012 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
Mark – the AFL draft and salary cap makes things a bit more complicated, as compared to expansion teams from other codes. Gold Coast and GWS could only sign one uncontracted player from each of the 16 clubs. I think Gold Coast ended up with 8 uncontracted players. I suppose they could have got more, but getting a player to move isn’t that easy. You have to pay over the odds, which will eventually bring salary cap issues, and you would be doing it at the expense of recruiting good young talent. Unfortunately, there is a lot of short term pain for long term gain.
May 29th 2012 @ 3:32pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 29th 2012 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
Mark Young,
Building an expansion team isnt about being competitive in your first year. It’s about being competitive when the new shininess has worn off.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:32am
Australian Rules said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
Mark
I see what you mean…but think of it like this:
It’s like a bunch of high school/university kids (all very talented) coming together and taking on the Melbourne Storm. They’d probably be good in patches and maybe even score a few good tries, but ultimately, they’d get flogged every week. In terms of learning their structures and having the physicality, they just wouldn’t be up to it…especially late in games.
That’s what the Suns and Giants have been going through.
In the Giants’ first game, I think they had 13 kids who had never played a game before…that’s unprecedented.
The problem for both clubs (and probably both teams) is that the local support for them is so sparse and so fickle that they will have to endure being the only teams playing in front of dismal home crowds. Crowds of less than 15,000 are small in the AFL.
This is a slow burn. It’ll take another 3 years for either club to win more games than they lose. The AFL can wait (long term planning has been their strength)…the question is, can the fans… and will the local media?
May 29th 2012 @ 10:13am
Mark Young said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:13am | Report comment
That’s a good explanation, thanks Mate.
On the plus side, when they play in Melbourne they will have huge crowds, just not when they play at home.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:57am
Australian Rules said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:57am | Report comment
The crowds will be better in Melbourne but it’ll be a while before any of those kids experience a full MCG roar during the finals.
In terms of drawing form the local well (as referred to above), there’s no doubt fans of any sport love a “local boy made good”. LeBron James was loved by the Cavs not just for his talent but because he was a born and bred Akron, Ohio, boy (then despised for ditching his home state).
At the moment, there’s about 7 Giants players who were born in NSW (and 1 or 2 from Canberra). In the era of professional sport, it has less impact (see the Storm) but I agree with you that if the team had a few locals stars it would boost the local support.
May 29th 2012 @ 12:26pm
ManInBlack said | May 29th 2012 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
should try to attract Lenny Hayes or Mark McVeigh to finish off their career ‘back home’.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:53am
Lazy Ted Failyou said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:53am | Report comment
To answer why the Giants and Suns will take 4 or 5 years to get to the higher parts of the league.
Generally speaking it takes a human being 5 years of elite training to reach the premier athletic group.
A recent example is to look at Carlton with all those 1st round draft picks, they still have not won the flag or cemented a spot in the top 4 after 5 years.
May 29th 2012 @ 8:28am
mds1970 said | May 29th 2012 @ 8:28am | Report comment
The ox is slow but the earth is patient.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:41am
TomC said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
I think they’re going okay. They’re really still building the product, which is a legitimate, competitive football club(s). We’ll see how they go at selling that product in a few years.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:48am
The High Shot said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
I wonder if all codes have been mesmerized by the bright lights of the Gold Coast and been blinded. The local population is mainly composed of emigres and holiday makers who bring their sporting allegiances with them and therefore don’t care about the local side. A generation from now there might emerge a wave of local support for the local teams but Australians tend to cheer for dad’s team…
May 29th 2012 @ 10:42am
Cameron said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:42am | Report comment
Agree with you about following “dad’s team”, we are afterall largely products of our upbringing
May 29th 2012 @ 12:30pm
ManInBlack said | May 29th 2012 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
what you’ll find in the ‘far flung’ enemy territory outposts is that any footy is better than none. Thus – in Melbourne – Rugby fans (even Union) will go to watch the Storm (granted there were the Superleague hangover elements that saw Storm as a despised Media driven creation that was at the cost of traditional clubs).
For AFL, in Sydney or Gold Coast – there’s only so many options. For locals who haven’t already jumped on board with the Lions (ex-Fitzroy) or the Swans (ex Sth Melb) – - then these two new sides without any historical baggage are perfect to ‘adopt’. I know of Collingwood loving parents who are now Giants’ members taking their kids along. The parents will have 2 teams, the kids will be more single team – I suspect.
May 29th 2012 @ 12:44pm
GCS said | May 29th 2012 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
I think you are right there. I would say that there would be a lot of Suns members, who maybe support other teams, but just want to watch live footy. The ones that aren’t real staunch supporters, will hopefully switch to the Suns in time, but the kids are more likely to be Suns supporters from day one.
Regarding the crowds, Gold Coast have probably been a bit unlucky with the draw, having only played one drawcard team (Essendon) at home.
May 29th 2012 @ 12:03pm
Jaceman said | May 29th 2012 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
If the GCS and GWS are going to fail why is the NRL so worried about them eg setting up a committee of western Sydney NRL teams, tailoring the draw to oppose them at every chance (eg all western Sydney NRL teams played in Sydney last weekend, the Titans seem to play at 5.30 on a Saturday when the Suns play at home etc). Yet the AFL ignore the Storm in Melbourne, why the difference????
May 29th 2012 @ 12:57pm
Brewski said | May 29th 2012 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Without doubt it’s fear, thats why threads are closed, and the same old tired cliches are trotted out time and time again.
You can just imagine what these boards will be like when the Giants and the Suns are competetive, which no doubt will happen, the Lions once again start winning, imagine the fear then !, it’s quite amusing really.
May 29th 2012 @ 3:06pm
chrisc101 said | May 29th 2012 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
That’s easy Jaceman, the NRL has concerns because the AFL mission into western Sydney is very Kamikaze style. They are just going to keep throwing money at it. So they might have a degree of success but the question is at what cost. That is a very difficult emeny or in this case competitor to fight.
May 29th 2012 @ 3:41pm
Redb said | May 29th 2012 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
This is an AFL article, the enemy is rugby league.
May 29th 2012 @ 4:00pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 29th 2012 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
No. The enemy is, and always will be, Carlton.
May 29th 2012 @ 4:33pm
Nathan of Perth said | May 29th 2012 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
This.
May 29th 2012 @ 6:53pm
The_Wookie said | May 29th 2012 @ 6:53pm | Report comment
come get us
May 29th 2012 @ 7:04pm
Redb said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:04pm | Report comment
That would require dropping down the ladder.
May 29th 2012 @ 7:11pm
Nathan of Perth said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:11pm | Report comment
I’m sure we’ll join the chorus line of clubs getting you in two weeks time, Wookie
May 29th 2012 @ 12:05pm
JVGO said | May 29th 2012 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
The AFL has patently got their strategy wrong in the northern states. The AFL is in effect now a two division comp with the Eagles Crows and the big 5 Melbourne teams representing the top division. The rest of the teams all fall into the second tier with far weaker crowds and prospects. What the AFL has done by introducing extra teams in the northern states has doomed all of them to be second tier clubs, with weak support and little prospect of genuine success. As has been seen only genuine success gets any attention in the non traditional states. 4 weak clubs in NSW and Qld simply will not be viable. The AFL would have been better keeping the Lion and the Swans as close to top tier teams who could threaten the strongest AFL clubs and play for premierships. The situation long term will be that two clubs in each city will provide less interest, crowds success and money then one strong club would have. In their desperation to deliver a king hit in the northern states the AFL has taken a massive air swing.
May 29th 2012 @ 1:10pm
GCS said | May 29th 2012 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
Maybe you should try and set up a meeting with Andrew Demetriou and voice your concerns. The AFL can’t ‘keep’ the Lions and Swans near the top. There is a draft and salary cap system in place, so clubs fortunes will fluctuate over the course of a decade. West Coast and Carlton have won the wooden spoon in the last 5 years, and Collingwood did in 1999, which proves things can change pretty quickly.
May 29th 2012 @ 3:17pm
Australian Rules said | May 29th 2012 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
The idea that you can ‘protect’ Brisbane and Sydney by blocking new teams in the area, is such basic backward thinking. Thankfully, the AFL does not adopt that mindset (see Broncos).
In the last 10 years, the AFL has had premiership teams from QLD, NSW, VIC, SA & WA. I doubt there’s a national competition anywhere in the world that could boast such a spread of Premiership clubs across a country (the NFL included).
Now let’s look at crowds…
The Lions dropped from 30k (2010) to 21k (2011)…a shocking year on-field and a new team in the area.
When we add the Suns’ crowds of 19k (2011)…that’s a total of 40k for SEQ (instead of 30k).
I.e. a Nett increase in the total footprint of Australian Footy in the area…more people are watching it live (and yes, that means an initial dilution of the Lions’ fanbase).
Now for Sydney…
The Swans have dropped from 27k (2011) to 22k (2012).
When we add the Giants current crowds of 15k (2012)…that’s a total of 37k in the region (up from 27k).
The competition now has derby games in every mainland city.
The difficulty for the Suns and the Giants is that they are embryonic teams in non-AFL areas where the locals are notoriously fickle. Their new supporters are being told to be patient for success…whether they can be is a major challenge for these clubs and for the AFL.
Ultimately, however, expanding the national footprint is the best LONGTERM plan…even if it means short term pain.
May 29th 2012 @ 1:17pm
Brewski said | May 29th 2012 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
Thanks for your continued input and interest in Australian football, but i think your wrong, 4 teams in those 2 cities + GC are more than workable.
Brisbane, the GC and the Swans have very healthy grass roots support in terms of viable junior competitions underpinning them, GWS has such a vast area and population to work with, that it is more than likely to also have that in time.
Membership ebbs and flows according to success, both Swans and the Lions still have over 20,000 members, the GC has a great stadium deal, and Southport Football Club as a financial backer.
And i don’t think they are desperate to king hit anyone, but the AFL would be desperate too see them succeed.
May 29th 2012 @ 3:52pm
Jaceman said | May 29th 2012 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
The Crows and Power have members that are members of both (admittedly playing at the same ground). I wonder if Sydney will replicate some of this even to a lesser extent.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:21am
clipper said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:21am | Report comment
I doubt that, Jaceman. Some Swans fans out west (if they had many) will also become Giants fans and still follow the Swans as they don’t mind coming out to the east, but people from the east and inner city avoid the west as much as they can.