Meanwhile, some updates on rugby back in Wales
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The debate over Wallaby selections for the upcoming Tests is well under way here on The Roar. There are understandably fewer comments about the team arriving for a three match series, however.
So here are some notes on what’s been happening in Wales over the last couple of weeks.
Welsh provinces compete in the RaboDirect PRO12 League (known last season as the Magners League).
This is the competition which also features the top teams from Ireland, Italy and Scotland. Many rugby supporters down south will be well aware Leinster recently claimed the Heineken Cup after a victory over Ulster in the final.
Fewer, perhaps, will know that the season didn’t end there. As in France and England, there are playoffs to determine who claims the league titles and the PRO12 final just took place this weekend.
Only one Welsh team qualified for the play-offs this year, so most members of the Welsh squad travelling to Australia finished their regular season in the last round of league matches on the 5th May.
Welsh teams have a poor record in the Heineken Cup. They have never won it and the only side to make it to the final was Cardiff back in 1996. In the league, however, life has been better. Two Welsh sides have taken the title since the competition was set up and the Ospreys made this year’s play-offs, hoping for their fourth win.
It was a hard ask, since they had to travel to Leinster and face the recently-crowned Heineken champions. Leinster had topped the PRO12 table, finishing 10 points clear of the second-placed Opsreys. Even though Leinster didn’t field all the players who featured in the Cup victory, most pre-match forecasts tipped the Irish province to complete the double and, for much of the game, it seemed as if they would.
Leinster led 30-21 with sixteen minutes left but couldn’t close the game out. Instead, the Opsreys came back to claim a dramatic 30-31 win through a 78th minute try by Shane Williams which was then converted from the touchline by Dan Biggar.
It’s a small fillip for Welsh club rugby ahead of the tour. Many of these Ospreys are also in the provisional Wales squad, namely Adam Jones, Richard Hibbard, Paul James, Alun Wyn Jones, Ian Evans, Justin Tipuric, Ryan Jones, Dan Biggar, Ashley Beck, Ryan Bevington, Rhys Webb and Andrew Bishop.
Wales have a warm-up match against the Barbarians on June 2nd but it may not provide too many clues for Australian supporters.This is because Wales have decided to send 15 of their 34 man squad to Australia on the Thursday before that friendly. The remainder of the squad will follow the day after the match.
If you are wondering why that seems to leave only 19 players for the squad to face the Barbarians, the provisional squad is actually 38 players strong, with four not making the cut to go to Australia.
All the indications are that the initial travelling party will be the likely starting XV for the Test on June 9th at Suncorp. The idea seems to be to give them more time to acclimatize since, with the travel and time difference, they won’t arrive until early Saturday morning anyway.
If this does pan out as expected, then, barring injuries, none of the players taking on the Barbarians will be starting against Australia.
Warren Gatland has also spoken about his potential involvement.
He is still recovering at home from two broken heels and confirmed that he is not likely to be able to make the trip to Australia for the first Test. He has, however, suggested that he could yet be available to join the squad for the final two Tests.
His role will necessarily be restricted even if he can travel, but he is clearly keen to spend some time with the team.
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May 30th 2012 @ 3:46am
Rugby Fan said | May 30th 2012 @ 3:46am | Report comment
I forgot to add one other point.
A number of commenters here and on other sites have talked up the contribution of two of the Welsh locks, Ian Evans and Alun Wyn Jones. Both had good games for the Ospreys at the weekend and it was AWJ who captained the side in their win over Leinster. Once he had recovered from a toe injury, Gatland chose him to partner Evans at lock against England. They are probably still the first choice pairing, and both men are fit.
It’s very possible, though, that neither will play a part in the first Test against Australia on the 9th.
Evans is getting married in Wales on the 7th June and won’t be flying out to join the squad until a day or two later. He may not even be in Australia when the first Test gets underway.
Jones, on the other hand, is committed to going to his sister’s wedding on June 1st. As it stands, he will probably play in the match on the 2nd against the Barbarians and then travel with the second part of the squad which leaves on the 3rd.
Rob Howley has indicated that the starting XV for the Suncorp match will all be travelling on Thursday. Jones can’t be on that plane so the feeling is he won’t be a starter but may end up on the bench.
Some Welsh supporters are dismayed that weddings are taking preference over such an important match but the coaching team have been very supportive, saying “family comes first”. Evans actually planned his wedding 18 months ago when injuries had kept him out of the Welsh set-up for nearly three years. He only got back in when World Cup lock Luke Charteris went down injured at the end of last year.
Wales do have other options at lock with Charteris and Bradley Davies, while Ryan Jones has made a positional shift for his country as recently as the Six Nations.
May 30th 2012 @ 9:12am
Rugby Diehard said | May 30th 2012 @ 9:12am | Report comment
RF – thanks for the read! good to get a factual update from the north!
May 30th 2012 @ 12:53pm
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
I agree.
May 30th 2012 @ 4:06am
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 4:06am | Report comment
RF Welsh rugby is funny: it’s basically only drawn from half the country and they have hardly bothered to try and expand it to the rest. Look at the miracles Scotland are working by moving it into schools, increasing their playing numbers by 50% in the past years. Have a look in this article at the comparison of playing numbers in New Zealand and Wales:
http://www.hiraeth.org.uk/blog/2011/08/02/welsh-rugby-more-than-just-a-game/
May 30th 2012 @ 6:59am
Bakkies said | May 30th 2012 @ 6:59am | Report comment
they don’t have the money. The WRU are paying off the Millennium Stadium and it’s only managing to reduce the debt plus they have already drop a pro team (Celtic Warriors). The regions don’t have the support and under money difficulties. The Ospreys are facing a winding up order from HMRC for unpaid taxes and the Blues have had two petitions against them.
As for Scotland they have contracted by dropping two pro teams the Borders and the Caledonia Reds to cost cutting and paying off Murrayfield. The Borders didn’t have the market and the support but bringing back the Reds is a must. Put the team in Aberdeen or Perth. It will better for Scotland as they have players spread in England and France rather than back home. The Top 14 and AP are very attitional and players are better managed in the Pro 12 under the SRU.
The ARU is very lucky they don’t have to finance their own stadiums otherwise we would be under the same pressure
May 30th 2012 @ 8:45am
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Bakkies the next biggest cities are Aberdeen and Dundee and then it’s quite a drop the next smallest. These are probably where the next teams would go and they would need more teams to make use of their hugely increasing playing numbers. Besides the crowds are finally coming to Edinburgh and Glasgow so they are financially more stable.
May 30th 2012 @ 8:58am
Bakkies said | May 30th 2012 @ 8:58am | Report comment
The thing is they aren’t financial stable yet. Edinburgh can’t afford to rent a stadium and Glasgow have moved to another ground. They tried to sell Edinburgh to a benefactor but that didn’t work. Hearts need money but Tynecastle pitch isn’t big enough for Rugby. It wasn’t even big enough for the UEFA Cup.
Aberdeen is obviously the best location but Perth has hosted Rugby matches before and close to the sporting facilities in Stirling. Don’t know if Dundee has a pitch that is big enough for Rugby.
May 30th 2012 @ 9:03am
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 9:03am | Report comment
That’s all true Bakkies. I read that the reason the SRU were thinking of Aberdeen and Dundee next was just population. Even then neither are that big but just the next biggest after Glasgow and Edinburgh.
To give an example of how insular Scottish rugby is, despite Glasgow being far bigger than any other Scottish city, not a single player from a Glasgow state school has ever played for Scotland.
May 30th 2012 @ 8:59pm
Bakkies said | May 30th 2012 @ 8:59pm | Report comment
Aberdeen can cover areas such as the Highlands, Inverness, Perth in their catchment. I think Chris Cusiter is from Aberdeen
May 30th 2012 @ 7:54am
King of the Gorgonites said | May 30th 2012 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Interesting point Kpm. At a regional level Australian crowds certainly out do them. However, I am envious of their international crowds.
May 30th 2012 @ 7:58am
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 7:58am | Report comment
KOG Scottish rugby was pretty much at rock bottom and they decided they needed to do something. A good way of expanding because of the low cost. The ARU could do it especially in WA, Victoria, SA, Tas/NT where there is less league in schools. Have a look: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/scottish/8762282.stm
May 31st 2012 @ 9:00pm
Wales15 said | May 31st 2012 @ 9:00pm | Report comment
To a certain degree you are perhaps correct, but theoretically you’re not. The Scarlets cover the biggest area out of all regions. They cover their respected west and extend North. So yes they (Rugby) do cover the whole of Wales. George North for example came from the North of Wales. You mention that Scotland have increased their playing numbers by 50%, but do you realise that this is possibly on top of their former numbers. So realistically they could have 200 players, but increase them by a 100 players so that gives them 50%. Wales on the other hand could have 500 players already, but increase by a 100 players, so increase by 20%. If you look at it this way, growth rate Scotland is superior, but when you consider the numbers already, Wales is superior.
I know they would have thousands not hundreds, but it’s an easier to understand.
May 30th 2012 @ 7:44am
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Bakkies they have much more money than Scotland who are desperately poor, but chose the cunning strategy of bringing rugby in through the schools instead of just clubs and increased their participation by 50% in a few years: a cheap way to do it as of course it just means persuading local authorities and schools to do it, and then they pay.
Wales and Ireland for that matter are just inert. Scotland only acted out of absolute desperation as they were afraid of being overtaken by Italy.
May 30th 2012 @ 8:08am
Bakkies said | May 30th 2012 @ 8:08am | Report comment
The Italians have way more players under pro level than Scotland. The Scots have strong rugby schools like Heriots and Merchiston in Edinburgh. Getting it out to the comprehensive schools is another thing as Rugby is considered to be a sport for doctors and lawyers. The SRU get lip service from the Scottish Executive. Scotland has a serious health problem due to people having poor diets and football is getting an absolute hammering due to finances and the Rangers tax crisis
Schools rugby is big in Ireland particularly in Ulster and Leinster
May 30th 2012 @ 8:14am
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 8:14am | Report comment
Bakkies look at the link I posted two posts above.
May 30th 2012 @ 8:25am
Bakkies said | May 30th 2012 @ 8:25am | Report comment
all well and good they will need good coaches and to get these kids in to adult rugby post school. Coaching is a big problem in Ireland due to the large growth of rugby with a lot of armchair fans who have never played the game in their life coaching kids.
May 30th 2012 @ 8:40am
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
Bakkies I think they will take the best and put them in the Prodirect teams. Isn’t that a good way though of expanding the game and one that Australia could follow? A cheap one crucially.
May 30th 2012 @ 8:52am
Bakkies said | May 30th 2012 @ 8:52am | Report comment
Scotland only have 30 starting players in each Pro 12 round. One would think they will get another team once they have got their finances in order. They have turned over a lot of players but there are too many playing for English and French clubs. London Scottish isn’t an option yet either due to their low position in the leagues. The Scots took a lot of convincing in regards to bringing the Italian teams in
May 30th 2012 @ 9:07am
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Bakkies true I think it will take a little while. However they have a recent record of boldness due to desperation and the scorecard of losses this Six Nations may lead them to bold acts again.
I hope they get themselves in order because out of the six northern states they are doing by far the worst. Italy’s Pro teams are a disaster but the game is growing in leaps and bounds, effectively selling out the Olympic stadium twice. Wales and Ireland are at least stable, despite the failure of the franchise format to attract fans in Wales. However, the game in both is static and doesn’t seem ever to show signs of advancement in terms of playing numbers, growth in general etc…and you wonder whether they are actually trying to spread the game at all.
May 30th 2012 @ 9:26am
Bakkies said | May 30th 2012 @ 9:26am | Report comment
That’s not true about Ireland the game has been growing at a rapid rate and the players get good exposure
May 30th 2012 @ 9:46am
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Is that really true? Surely the national team should be improving in player quality then which it doesn’t appear to be.
May 30th 2012 @ 9:11pm
Bakkies said | May 30th 2012 @ 9:11pm | Report comment
Yes it is. Even in counties like Mayo and Kerry which are strong in GAA rugby is really developing. Connacht the weakest of the provinces are doing really well in selling their season tickets for next season. Clongowes in Co.Kildare is now one of the strongest schools in Leinster and possibly Ireland. They had at least 7 Ireland representatives this season. I suggest you look up the Leinster Schools Cup. It even gets televised on Setanta.
In regards to the national side it comes down to coaching again. Kidney hasn’t got the best out of his players. You are naive to think that Rugby isn’t growing in Ireland. Kidney could only pick what the provinces are producing however more and more talent is coming through each province. Ireland came an unlucky second in the Six Nations under 20s competition this season. 10 years ago the provinces and the players wouldn’t have had the exposure that they are getting now. Even Cian Healy is doing tv commercials for sponsors.
Ulster, Munster and Leinster (much like the Brumbies are doing with UC) are using university campuses as training bases and taking advantage of the sports science facilities there. The Pro 12 is on terrestrial tv and they tried to get the HEC on to those channels. Dublin has already sold the bulk of the tickets for next season’s Heineken Cup Final. Compare that to the Twickenham and Stade de France finals where tickets were still available on the week of the Final. Limerick is full on Rugby. You go down the main streets of Limerick City Centre and the place is covered in Munster flags. Even in Dublin Rugby is really growing in terms of support. You could go in to shops and there were tshirts dedicated to Rocky Elsom.
If that isn’t growth I don’t know what you are on.
May 30th 2012 @ 9:49am
Steve said | May 30th 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
The WRU made a $24 million profit last year
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May 30th 2012 @ 9:16pm
Bakkies said | May 30th 2012 @ 9:16pm | Report comment
There is still a fair amount of debt to pay off but they are doing a good job at it. They don’t whinge like the ARU and get on with it. The big concern is the regional game. The Scarlets and Dragons are finally building up their identities but their bases are small. Neither has a big soccer club in their towns. Cardiff Blues are going back to the Arms Park and the Ospreys are gone back to their roots but still don’t get the crowds. There is a salary cap been implemented. Fine that they are developing talent but their salaries are very small. Soon as they get in to the Welsh squad like North and Cuthbert at a young age their pay has to go up significantly. Then the French clubs come knocking. Cuthbert had some big offers in France.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:49pm
Wales15 said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:49pm | Report comment
Dude, the country is screwed economically. Therefore people can’t afford to go to games as frequently (If at all). There has been lot’s of uncertainty with regions in particular Cardiff. They have not performed well this season and when you couple that with finances, I for one would not waste my valuable money. You have to remember wages are much lower over there, although so is the cost of living (by a massive amount!)
People are right though the WRU have got shed loads of $$$, but they do not distribute it very well. It is stupid because they nick each region’s top players for the majority of the year. You can see there greed through the Wales v Australia December match. It was nothing more than for money.
May 30th 2012 @ 10:18am
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Steve there are 372 secondary schools in Scotland and 223 in Wales. With $24 million the Welsh could put rugby in every school in Wales that doesn’t have it, but they just don’t think of it or are driven to desperation as Scotland were enough to think of it.
May 30th 2012 @ 10:26am
Ben S said | May 30th 2012 @ 10:26am | Report comment
It isn’t down to the WRU to ‘put rugby in ever school’. It’s a bit more complicated than that.