How the All Blacks can defend the World Cup
By KiwiDave, 31 May 2012 KiwiDave is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- All Blacks, Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Rugby Union, Sonny Bill Williams
104 Have your say
New Zealand rugby player Ma'a Nonu, left, gestures towards teammate Sonny Bill Williams. AP Photo/Ross Land
Related coverage
While the 2011 World Cup triumph is still fresh in many minds, New Zealand Rugby will already be looking to 2015. Here’s who I would like to see in three years time in the United Kingdom when the All Blacks try to defend the Rugby World Cup.
As many know, the squad for 2011 was the oldest All Black squad by a long away. The squad contained a massive amount of experienced players and many have since retired or simply won’t be there in 2015.
Harsh decisions I feel will need to be made this season, or 2013 at the latest, to have the best possible squad. Players who have served the All Blacks well in 2011 that will likely be dead weight in 2015 need to be phased out.
So with 2015 just three years away, I think a line needs to be drawn in the sand now and the 30 players needed to defend the cup must be developed and groomed towards this goal.
With June internationals, the Four Nations and end of year tours, there is the potential to get 30-40 Test matches of experience before the World Cup
First up is the forwards and a few won’t be around in 2015 or shouldn’t be. Woodcock, Mealamu, Hore, Williams and Thorn are five that come to mind.
For props I would look to Ben and Owen Franks as must includes. They are 28 and 24 and already have decent test experience.
I would look at blooding a player like Ben Afeaki as well. At 24 he has a big future. Ben Tameifuna at 20 has great potential as a prop and can be developed as a third hooker. Charlie Faumuina at 25 is another with youth on his side that can be developed.
These five props will be 31, 27, 27, 23 and 28 come World Cup time.
For hookers I see a big issue. Hore and Mealamu are both 33. I would not want to go into the World Cup with a 36yo hooker. The major issue is Hore, Mealamu and Flynn all are over 30 and all hog domestic spots which means not much new talent is emerging.
I would look at Hika Elliot who is 26 as the way forward here. Dane Coles at 25 is another option but this is an area of big concern for 2015 that needs to be addressed. Three of the five Super Rugby sides have hookers in their twilight years.
Elliot will be 29 and Coles 28 when the next World Cup comes around.
Time for the locks and Brad Thorn is gone and Ali Williams at 31 is well past his used by date. These two need to be replaced for 2015 and a lot of talent is coming through the ranks in the lock department.
Players like Sam Whitelock 23, Brodie Retallick 20, Luke Romano 26 and Jarrad Hoeata 28 are the future here. Fortunately, the selectors have realised this too.
Next up is the loose forwards. Richie McCaw, although 31, is too good to be overlooked. He will be 34 come World Cup time and in the twilight of his career but his leadership and skill on the field should defy his age. Keiran Read, 26, also picks himself.
As good as Richie is, a replacement at seven must be groomed and that player is Matt Todd in my opinion. At 24, Todd has shown himself to be an impressive replacement for McCaw at Super XV level and the time has come to transition him into the All Blacks.
Luke Whitelock 21, Victor Vito 25, Brad Shields 21 and Sam Cane 20 are all talented younger players, who with a bit of experience behind them can develop into world class loose forwards.
By 2015 the loose forwards in this list will be 34, 29, 27, 28, 24, 24 and 23
Next is the halfbacks and after having such a dearth of quality halfbacks, suddenly we have talent galore in the position. The first thing that must be done is ditch Weepu and Ellis. Weepu, although he has been a great servant, is on his way out. Form and fitness are not his friends. Ellis has never been that good to start with and got his spot purely through playing for the Crusaders.
Both may only be 28 but the time to blood new halfbacks is now.
Tawera Kerr Barlow 21, Aaron Smith 23 and TJ Perenera 20 are all fantastic talents and all of them should be developed without haste.
The fly-halves are next. Dan Carter is an automatic pick. Even considering he will be 33 come the next world cup, he has such a brilliant rugby brain that he couldn’t be left out. Aaron Cruden, 23, has come on in leaps and bounds since the World Cup and is the logical heir apparent to Carter. Colin Slade, 24, also has potential if he can overcome his injury issues.
The centres Maa Nonu, 30, and Conrad Smith, 31, are getting towards the end of their careers. How good will they be in 2015? Will they be a liability when they are 33 and 34? I would take them in the squad but by 2015 I would envisage a starting line-up of Sonny Bill Williams, 26, and Richard Kahui, 26. Both will be 29 come the next World Cup and should be at their peak.
On the wings I would go with Julian Savea, 21, Zac Guildford, 22, Cory Jane, 29, and Hosea Gear, 28. This will provide a solid mix of youth and experience.
Finally that leaves the fullbacks. Israel Dagg 23 is an automatic selection. His youth, experience and ability to play the wings means he should always be one of the first picked for any squad. Ben Smith 25 and Andre Taylor 24 are two others who should be developed.
These are the players I feel the All Blacks need to develop for 2015.
By the time 2015 rolls around the squad will consist of around half a dozen players who are 30+, half a dozen who are under 25 and a very large core of players in the 25-29 age group This is the stage in most players careers when they start to peak.
Already Hansen has shown a lot of promise in his selections. I hope he stays on track with it and begins to phase out players like Weepu, Ellis, Williams, Hore and Mealamu for the good of New Zealand rugby in the future.
Have you seen the new Wallabies jersey? Want one of your own? We're giving away a brand new 2013 Wallabies jersey to one lucky Roarer, click here to go in the running to win.
Do you have what it takes to become a sports writer? Write for the roar
Rugby Union articles
- SPIRO: Beale and Folau brilliant, Mogg subbed (278)
- Deans: Should he stay or should he go? (242)
- I was dead-set wrong about Folau (237)
- What gives with Israel Folau? (184)
- Deans promises ball in hand rugby for Wallabies against Lions (183)
- Quade shouldn’t be fly half against the Lions (180)
- My Lion tamers for 2013 (167)
- Cheetahs vs Reds: Super Rugby live scores, blog (74)
- Waratahs vs Brumbies: Super Rugby live scores, blog (512)
- Wallaby backline options (66)
- An exciting weekend in Australian rugby (0)
- Western Force vs Sharks: Super Rugby live scores, blog (114)
- Rebels vs Stormers – Super Rugby live scores, blog (359)
- Hurricanes vs Chiefs – Super Rugby live scores (47)
Recommend this story.
- Explore:
- All Blacks, Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Rugby Union, Sonny Bill Williams



May 31st 2012 @ 1:16am
Johnno said | May 31st 2012 @ 1:16am | Report comment
To be honest the All blacks are still a 30 point better tam than the wallabies. They went of f the gas at both eden park matches this year.
The ab’s only lack depth in 1 spot halfback, but other than maybe digby ioane(but Julian Savea, Kahui,dagg, corey jane all ahead)or will genia(only coz ab’s lack depth in half back the only spot too, Genia is no Mike Phillips) not one aussie would make the starting team, not 1.
SO the Ab’s will win in 2015 or go close rest assured very far ahead of the wallaby team at present. But rumor is on the news last night the wallabies want greg inglis and micheal jennings.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:05am
Kuruki said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:05am | Report comment
I think the All Blacks are around a 12 point better side then the Wallabies.
The All Blacks lack depth at hooker not at halfback. Smith Kerr-Barlow and Perenara are all exciting prospects, there is a huge push for Perenara to be included in the All Black squad which shows there is plenty of depth. I don’t rate Leonard, but some people do and he is also dissapointed to not have made the squad. The potential of those three young players is very exciting for All Blacks fans. Maybe in Australia and South Africa there is a thought process that if Ellis or Weepu droped of the face of the earth All Black rugby would be in strife, i can assure you if that happened there would be a massive chorus of cheers heard around the country. Kerr-Barlow and Perenara are players of the near future, Smith is a player of the now, his composure and accurate bullet passing game will be a huge benefit to Carter giving him that extra bit of time to make a decision with ball in hand. I can see a massive fight for the halfback role in the next few years and imo the three young guys in the mix have the potential to be a stronger force for NZ rugby then the solid combination of Cowan and Weepu that we have used in the past.
May 31st 2012 @ 1:25am
justforlaughs said | May 31st 2012 @ 1:25am | Report comment
By Defend, are you referring who should be in the team that turns up in 2015?
IF you implied retain….
I suspect the next RWC they win will be roughly in about 23 years give or take a month….. 2034 in Christchurch NZ, against a France team.
On a serious note, by 2015, Carter will have to do a Larkham and be held together by tape, if that’s the plan, invest in strapping tape stocks now! SBW to remain in Union until 2015…. owww comeon, one of us has to start/stop drinking for this to make sense!
May 31st 2012 @ 1:56am
kingplaymaker said | May 31st 2012 @ 1:56am | Report comment
Agree more or less with the forwards, though probably Hansen should have another shot at Messam given his form this year.
I wouldn’t write off Weepu.
Nonu and Smith were a liability last year and so will be disaster zones by 2015. Fruean should be the centre for then. SBW/Fruean should be the goal.
Guildford is an abominable player and the worst to don the AB jersey in the professional era. It’s unbelievable he is being mentioned in this context.
Ranger should be the other wing. Taylor should be involved already. A back three of Dagg, Taylor, Ranger is ideal.
‘The major issue is Hore, Mealamu and Flynn all are over 30 and all hog domestic spots which means not much new talent is emerging. ‘ Entirely the NZRU’s fault!!!
May 31st 2012 @ 5:57am
mania said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:57am | Report comment
fruean’s not ready. needs to add some intelligence to his play. basically he needs to do what other palyers do and thats improve his craft. ranger, KPM have u watched any of the blues games earlier this season? ranger is a major contributor of the malaise thats affecting the blues. anyways he’s off to japan next year so wont get a call up tot he AB’s again.
guildford isnt the worst player to don the AB’s jersey in the pro era. that moniker would have to go to markCarter.
hore still has a couple seasons in him and mealamu has at least one more.
KPM and kiwiDave – whats the rush? AB’s are more interested in winning every test than just the WC. teams have to get over this mentality of the WC justifiying their existence. dangerous and shortsighted to be thinking about the WC now. theres much more important things coming up like the beldisloe.
May 31st 2012 @ 7:30am
Jerry said | May 31st 2012 @ 7:30am | Report comment
“Nonu and Smith were a liability last year”
Nonu was nominated for IRB Player of the Year, KPM.
May 31st 2012 @ 7:34am
Ben S said | May 31st 2012 @ 7:34am | Report comment
Are you new to this game, Jerry?
May 31st 2012 @ 11:39am
Jerry said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:39am | Report comment
Ha, it’s probably the 5th or 6th time I’ve told him. Just wondering if it’ll sink in eventually…
May 31st 2012 @ 10:39pm
Ben S said | May 31st 2012 @ 10:39pm | Report comment
Good luck with that…
June 1st 2012 @ 9:15am
thesportsguy said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
hah!
May 31st 2012 @ 7:54am
Riccardo said | May 31st 2012 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Goodness gracious KPM.
Here we go again.
Lets kill this right here.
Conrad and Nonu were/are useless? Please. They would waltz into the Wallabies today and shore up your middle while providing impetus that breaks the gain line, all the time.
What this article seems to be missing is the fact that to displace the encumbents in any All Black role, that encumbent needs to be bested. And this is the only place where your hopes gain any traction.
SBW may displace Ma’a but he needs to continue to show the form he has for the Chiefs at the next level, consistently. SBW will certainly get an opportunity against the Irish and we’ll have to see. We’ll also have to see if he signs for the future too, won’t we.
You could argue Conrad has age against him perhaps, but not form. He has been outstanding for the Canes this year and I would suggest is still an automatic selection for the All Blacks. If he is likely to be displaced it will be Kahui who gets that gig, not Fruean, who for every great game for the Crusaders, has 5 where he goes missing or makes errors. Crotty would be a better bet (for you) when he’s fit and he’s nowhere near the team I would select.
I’m not Guilford’s biggest fan either but the guy can finish and combines well with Dagg. Let’s give him a chance mate. After the Rugby Championship you can have your sharpened daggers ready. The fact is with Tamati Ellison, Ben Smith and Hosea Gear there is ample cover there anyway.
Taylor will get his opportunity, as will TJ but not yet. Kuruki gave you a good response to this question on another thread yesterday.
“‘The major issue is Hore, Mealamu and Flynn all are over 30 and all hog domestic spots which means not much new talent is emerging. ‘ Entirely the NZRU’s fault!!!” Good, as this would suggest that the NZRFU have more knowledge than you. The front row are like wine KPM. They get better with age. I’d definitely replace Flynn with Hika Elliott but it they’re fit I have no issue with any of them.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:21am
KiwiDave said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:21am | Report comment
Renee “Oh Sh!t I knocked the ball on again” Ranger is the last player I would want to see in an All Black jumper. He has deplorable ball skills. He will do maybe 2 or 3 flashy things a season and is total crap the rest of the time. Guy should be sent back to club rugby until he learns how to keep a hold of the pill.
May 31st 2012 @ 12:49pm
Wal said | May 31st 2012 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
I agree, we average punters are very easily swayed by players that are able to execute flashes of brilliance, Rugby has become so much of a team sport, that often these guys aren’t what is best for long term results.
Case and point Dan Carter v Quade Cooper, Cooper is a phenom when it comes to open play but is a liability on defense and seems to struggle when the game takes on a more attritional tone.
As for Zac Guildford he is a highly under rated player. He makes very few errors, his work rate and support play is second to none add some blinding pace and he is on the fringes on my AB team any day. ATM probably shaded by Jane and Kahui.
Picking the best team does sometimes mean leaving the best players out, last year playing SBW and Nonu along side each other would have been a train wreck as they don’t compliment each other, certainly both more devastating than Smith but to much the same.
May 31st 2012 @ 2:04am
Johnno said | May 31st 2012 @ 2:04am | Report comment
KPM I think a fully fit Weepu is better than Genia. Both players are no george gregan, justin marshall or even Byron kelleher , but i think a fully fit weppu is better. Weepu has got a lot fitter the last month he is just shaking off a world cup hangover like many AB’S players.
AB’S still the team to beat, and wallabies are no2 but i tell you what the rest of the world is catching up fast.
I KPM was looking on the IRB website Idnia and pakistan are playing qualifiers, big countries as is china. And the stuff USA/Russia/Canada/germany/spain/portugal are doing the wallabies better change there junior development fast KPM.
May 31st 2012 @ 2:16am
kingplaymaker said | May 31st 2012 @ 2:16am | Report comment
Johnno agreed. Both the ABs and Wallabies are lazy about their game and assume no other contender will ever emerge: they will get a terrible shock when it does but by then it may well be too late.
I wouldn’t judge any player too much from their performance in the Blues. Hansen has no doubt not forgotten that Weepu was key to the ABs quarter and semi victories, and that despite his missed goal kicks in the final, his game-management and positional kicking were excellent.
May 31st 2012 @ 2:25am
Johnno said | May 31st 2012 @ 2:25am | Report comment
KPM agreed. The worrying thing for the ABs is NZ only has 4.5 million people, and has to deal with rugby league and soccer for junior numbers. NZ i hope does not end up like west indies cricket one day living of past glory, time will tell.
And Weepu is a good player and generally good in the big matches,. He saved a crucial trying the final a desperate ankle tap of Thrinh Duc. Weepu can play and controls a game well. And as for goal kicking in his defence it is Dan carter’s job anyway not weppu’s.
May 31st 2012 @ 4:07am
kingplaymaker said | May 31st 2012 @ 4:07am | Report comment
Johnno once the NRL gets its billion TV deal and the AFL gets hungry, rugby union in New Zealand will have to act or the All Blacks dominance may be a thing of the past. Same in Australia of course, except without losing the dominance…
May 31st 2012 @ 7:25am
Riccardo said | May 31st 2012 @ 7:25am | Report comment
Thank God you 2 don’t have any say then.
Your entitled to your opinion but your obsession with developing players’ weaknesses within the All Black environment borders on the maniacal.
Ranger and Fruean should be nowhere near an All Black jersey in the foreseeable future. Their lack of work-rate and defensive frailties are so glaring it surprises me that informed posters even proffer them as saviours.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:09am
mania said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:09am | Report comment
what annoys me about fruean and ranger is they havent gotten any better since they arrived. both power players that rely solely on being strong and fast. rugby is so much more than just brute force.
like jerry said nonu nominated for IRB POY last year but more importantly nonu got dropped at the 2003 WC went away and became a better player. improved his passing, retention in the tackle and had a short kicking game. SBW came along and not only did nonu mentor him but also upped his own standards that kept SBW on the bench.
fruean and ranger havent any improvement since they started. all they’ve done is refined how to run harder not smarter.
savea went away from last years super rugby a woeful player and look at him this season. he worked on his game and now is imho the preeminent winger in NZ with all the skills at a high level a modern winger needs.
AB’s isnt just about being the best its about getting better even when u are the best. ranger and fruean dont show these attributes yet.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:25am
Kuruki said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:25am | Report comment
I agree Ranger and Fruean are far from Ab material at this point. Fruean imo could be one of those guys worth giving a taste of the environment, not a jersey in the 22 but just a taste of the camp some insight into the training ethics and what’s expected. I remember Nonu was in the same boat, but Henry and co gave him a taste and an insight into where he needed to be as a player. His development from pure crash and bash to the skill set he has today was masterful from those coaches. His vision and passing game is now the biggest part of his game imo. In other words i think Hansen and co should make Fruean a project of sorts without so much being in the All Blacks 22 at this stage.
May 31st 2012 @ 2:32am
matthew said | May 31st 2012 @ 2:32am | Report comment
Get Joubert reffing all their games. If they cant lose to a French team which comprehensively outplayed them in the 2011 RWC final they cant lose to anyone.
May 31st 2012 @ 7:29am
Riccardo said | May 31st 2012 @ 7:29am | Report comment
Matthew,
Erudite. Informed. Considered. Knowledgable. Robust. Factual.
These things your contribution is not…
May 31st 2012 @ 5:33pm
mace 22 said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:33pm | Report comment
joubert love the man he can ref the all blacks anytime he likes , how else can the all blacks win a game if it wasn’t for ref’s like him.
June 1st 2012 @ 5:14am
mania said | June 1st 2012 @ 5:14am | Report comment
mace22 – by beating every oppn that comes up against him? yes thanx to joubert AB’s have won the bledisloe 9 years in a row. 10 this year, hope jouberts on form
May 31st 2012 @ 2:34am
matthew said | May 31st 2012 @ 2:34am | Report comment
Btw Johnno, how can you say Whippu or Phillips is better than Genia? Genia is easily the best scrum-half in the world since Du Preez lost form from 2009.
May 31st 2012 @ 3:52am
Geoff Brisbane now California said | May 31st 2012 @ 3:52am | Report comment
Great constructive comment Matthew, pure gold now how about the rugby ya twit.The same could be said about Lawerence for the wannabie win of the south africans please don’t waste space.
May 31st 2012 @ 6:37am
justsaying said | May 31st 2012 @ 6:37am | Report comment
Why is Weepu better than Genia? Refer to the first Bledisloe of 2011 and a certain RWC semi. Genia is yet to deliver when it really counts.
As I’ve said before, Genia is a great halfback but probably wouldn’t make a NZ side because he doesn’t play a NZ-style game. That’s no slight against him – he’s great at what he does and he’s a perfect fit for the Wallabies, but All Black halfbacks tend to be more nuggety and abrasive.
May 31st 2012 @ 6:42am
mania said | May 31st 2012 @ 6:42am | Report comment
justsaying – i’m just sayin that gotta agree. genia is a great HB but he cant do what weepu does. weepu forces his forwards and backs to attack as a team keeping the oopn guessing. genia’s cleaner and a better athlete. i’d prefer weepu in good shape over genia any day.
matthew – i wouldnt say genia is the best HB in the world. no one at this stage is standout head and shoulders above the rest.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:48am
Justin2 said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:48am | Report comment
Genia is the ring master for the Reds so I think he can certainly do what Piri does in that area of organisation. Bizarre comment really. Piri is more abrasive and better in close contact perhaps but Genia has a better pass and is a much better runner and cover defender.
I’d take Genia any day, regardless of shape
May 31st 2012 @ 11:24am
KiwiDave said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:24am | Report comment
Genia is better. Would love to see how Weepu would perform behind a Wallaby pack going backwards at a rate of knots.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:30am
mania said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:30am | Report comment
KD – u realise weepu’s playing for the blues? i’d love to see genia playing for the blues and see how well he handles it
May 31st 2012 @ 11:56am
Red Kev said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:56am | Report comment
You do realise that Piri Weepu no longer plays rugby right? What you see in a Blues jersey nowadays is the man who ate Piri Weepu.
May 31st 2012 @ 1:16pm
Riccardo said | May 31st 2012 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Classic RK!
May 31st 2012 @ 1:58pm
KiwiDave said | May 31st 2012 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
Despite how bad Auckland are going, one thing that isn’t is there scrum. That is holding up. teams aren’t pushing the Blues scrum around. They are simply shredding holes in their paper thin back line.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:31pm
allblackfan said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:31pm | Report comment
genia is not better.
When the wallaby forwards hold their own, the opposition flanks target genia and his game goes to pieces.
When his scrum goes to pieces, genia goes to pieces.
genia’s tendency to run sideways ball in hand has already seen his get caught out once or twice as well. And what is with his box kicks?
Apart from that, he’s alright!
May 31st 2012 @ 7:51am
Snobby Deans said | May 31st 2012 @ 7:51am | Report comment
Matthew – who is Whippu?
May 31st 2012 @ 5:52am
mania said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:52am | Report comment
kiwiDave -theres no rush. lets try winning every game uptil 2015 1st then worry about the WC.
the incumbents still have a massive contribution to make.
disagree with on woodcock and hore. as i’ve asked you before whose better than woodcock and hore.
weeepu’s not finished. i predict you’ll eating your words come 4 nations times when weepu will be back to his best. weepu’s smart, brains dont dwindle with age.
theres no rush and worrying about the 2015 WC now is a waste of time. we should be concentrating on the next test then the one after that. alot of new talent wi be unearthed between now and 2015. making these sweeping changes is premature and trigger happy.
your only arguement for ths entire article is age discrimination. pretty weak and totally disloyal to those who have written in sweat and blood a special chapter in the history that is the AllBlacks.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:40am
Kuruki said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
Weepu can offer in 30 minutes, more then some halfbacks offer in the 80. Weepu for me is still a brilliant option from the bench although Kerr-Barlow looks like he could be an absolute 25-30 minute weapon for the All Blacks in future. Weepu has had a huge role to play in the development of guys like Cruden. When Carter is not on the paddock Weepu’s brain more then anything else has been crucial. is he in form? No. Does he deserve a chance to show he can step it up to where he was last year? Yes. I have no doubt, if Weepu flounders his chance he will be dropped without hesitation.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:43am
mania said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:43am | Report comment
kuriki – form is temporary, class is permanent.
i agree, weepu is class. u dont turn your back on proven test class frivolously as its rare. weepu will double his speed, strength and fitness just by pulling on the black jersey. they all do.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:51am
Riccardo said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:51am | Report comment
I agree fellas.
He has to be the incumbent, when he’s not mainlining Ernest Adams.
That said though, it’s damned exciting to have Aaron Smith, Kerr-Barlow and TJ Perenara all sniping at his heels.
May 31st 2012 @ 9:09am
Bigbaz said | May 31st 2012 @ 9:09am | Report comment
Cripes Weepu,last year ok but havn’t you been watching this year. Looks like he’s eaten a sheep.It will take him 12 mnths to get fit.
May 31st 2012 @ 2:06pm
KiwiDave said | May 31st 2012 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
“your only arguement for ths entire article is age discrimination. pretty weak and totally disloyal to those who have written in sweat and blood a special chapter in the history that is the AllBlacks.”
So you would have a team full of 30yo+ players compete in 2015 based on loyalty? Making way for the next generation is not disloyal. It is how top sides stay on top. England post 2003 and Australia post 2007 got into massive problems thinking your way.
As for better than Hore and Woodcock. Right now Hore is the top option, basically because aside from Waikato and Wellington, every other side have 31yo+ hookers in their side. Otago has Rutledge who is 34 as a backup. Thats how tragic the development of hookers is. They will have a massive gaping hole to fill in a couple of years. As for Woodcock, pick a Franks. Ben or Owen over him any day of the week.
May 31st 2012 @ 2:27pm
ohtani's jacket said | May 31st 2012 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
Who cares about 2015? It’s 2012 and Tony Woodcock is in great form. The notion that you can’t have Woodcock on the loosehead side, Owen Franks at tighthead and one of the younger props coming off the bench is lubricous. No Woodcock this year would equal a propping crisis. Why are you interested in self-inflicted wounds? The worst case scenario is that the All Blacks under perform in the Rugby Championship and the team gets a shake up on the end of year tour, but you don’t cut the best loosehead in the country because of a tournament four years away. When Carl Hayman left New Zealand after the World Cup, how long did it take for Franks to develop into his replacement? It didn’t happen in the first match of 2008, did it?
May 31st 2012 @ 3:31pm
Red Kev said | May 31st 2012 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
I have to agree here. Before the RWC if you’d've asked me if I wanted to replace Robinson with Woodcock in the Australian pack I’d've told you “no thanks”.
But then Robinson got injured. Woodcock got over his injury and played well at the RWC and this year he has been very impressive for the Blues whereas Robinson has been playing fairly average football.
He’s a massive unit on the loosehead side and the ABs would be crazy to let him go.
May 31st 2012 @ 6:30am
justsaying said | May 31st 2012 @ 6:30am | Report comment
The idea of picking players based on how old they will be in 2015 was a rubbish idea when it was floated in relation to the Wallabies last week, and it’s still a rubbish idea. Pick the best players available now and the results will take care of themselves.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:50am
Kuruki said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Disagree. When you have two hookers at the age of 33,34 you need to have a bit of an eye toward who will be coming in to replace them. Yes the focus should be on winning games and that is still what is going to be happening, but there is more then 22 spots available, and it is those other positions that you fill with guys who are future options. To ignore the fact a number of your team will be using walking sticks in 2015 is just plain stupidity, especially when the only thing keeping a few of them in the position right now is their experience, not their form. It is about balance and the All Blacks have always seemed to find a good mix between the now and the future.
May 31st 2012 @ 9:19am
justsaying said | May 31st 2012 @ 9:19am | Report comment
I stand by my initial comment, but I’ll add that in the year or two after a world cup it should be form, rather than experience, that holds greater currency. What I can’t stand is the suggestion that the selectors should effectively ignore form in favour of blooding players who currently aren’t as good for a tournament that’s four years away. It’s not particularly prudent thinking and it threatens to diminish the integrity of test rugby outside world cup years.
But you’re right to the extent that it’s a 30 man squad and it’s outside that top 22 that you can include players to expose them to the international rugby scene. I think the AB selections have reflected that in their hooker selections – there’s not a lot between Flynn and Elliot as third hooker, but the selectors have clearly seen that there’s already plenty of experience there, so youth is the way to go. I don’t have a problem with that thinking.
May 31st 2012 @ 7:36am
Ben S said | May 31st 2012 @ 7:36am | Report comment
Avoid the example of England in 2003 where SCW jettisoned players (seemingly out of anger) whilst they were still capable Test performers. Conversely, avoid the scenario where SCW clung on to too many figureheads on the 2005 Lions tour. Find the middle ground, i.e. gradual introduction of new talent alongside proven Test performers. Pretty simple really… from my sofa.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:46am
Riccardo said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
I agree Ben.
KiwiDave, there is merit in your argument, no doubt, as your argument talks primarily to the RWC.
May I suggest that the RWC has gained too much import. Surely the current and next International Programme is where our focus should be? Surely this will provided the platform for the RWC that is 4 years away and is already being addressed?
I, for one, enjoy the Test fixtures outside the RWC more given they are more entertaining and the football more enterprising.
That said, I agree with a lot of what you say KD. Your assertions that Woody is not up to it remains a mystery to me but if he is outplayed I’ll be happy to reconsider. Develop Afeaki who looks to be a great long term prospect but Woody’s not done yet.
Faumuina might have got a run at BS anyway, if he was fit.
Depth at hooker is an issue but Hika Elliott is already a valuable back up and as you say, there are others coming through the ranks.
Props and Hookers are like good wine KD, they get better as they get older, as long as they can maintain fitness. Theirs’ is a craft that takes time to mature (think Hayman and Fitzpatrick) and I would suggest that Woody, the Franks, Faumuina, Hore and Kevvy (as long as his calf holds out) might still be viable
Agree on the locks and loosies although I doubt Richie will be there. Will Kaino be too old when he returns from Japan? If he can get a Super Rugby season under his belt as OJ suggested he may be able to, he is almost an automatic pick IMO.
Agree re the backs too although, like Richie, Dan may not make it. Cruden, who continues to impress, will be more than up to the job though.
I wouldn’t write off the chances of other training group selections either (Ellison for example) or others who perform well over the next few years.
May 31st 2012 @ 10:49pm
Ben S said | May 31st 2012 @ 10:49pm | Report comment
I think the WC takes up too much importance a year out, but I also think coaches use it as an excuse. IMO the next game is the most mportant one, and as long as you concentrate on that then the WC will take care of itself.