Expansion means you can’t always preach to the converted
By gulliver, 31 May 2012 gulliver is a Roar Rookie
- Tagged:
- AFL, AFL expansion, NRL, NRL expansion, Rugby League, State Of Origin
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I don’t surf. I gave it a go when I was younger, but it didn’t work out. The pinnacle of my attempts was when I was in high school. I once joined some friends who loved the surf, on a trip to the central coast.
We rented a house and stayed a couple of days.
Things were going great, until one night the locals came through, found our stuff and what they didn’t destroy, they stole. Boards, wetsuits, towels, you name it.
They even left messages telling my friends and I to go home and stay away, that this was ‘their’ place and we had no right to be there.
Needless to say it ruined our stay.
Now you’d be forgiven for wondering, ‘What the hell does any of this have to do with good old rugby league?’
For mine, the answer is sadly, a lot.
Don’t get me wrong. By no means do I think this is just a RL matter.
From my armchair, this kind of attitude is part of almost any sport that has fanatical supporters. It’s just that it’s relevance seems ripe, given the amount of vitriol spewed out to the people in Melbourne after the first Origin game this year.
When some people complain about giving an Origin match to the people in Melbourne, or they complain about having expansion teams in the AFL, it makes me remember that time in my life when I gave surfing a go, and it backfired.
The common reasoning used to justify these complaints, seems to be that the public in those places are so much less passionate or knowledgeable about the game, that they don’t have any right to be a supporter of that game, and thus they are not welcome to support that game.
And yet these same people who reject the sharing of ‘their’ game with others, probably think that if only everyone saw their game through their eyes, they’d love it as much as them.
So, to any such people out there I want to ask this: When are people new to the game supposed to get a chance to do this?
If you live in Melbourne, it’s most likely a big ask to drag your attention away from the AFL. It would take something huge, like, I don’t know, an Origin match for example?
Ok, so the sports minister screwed up, and the media coverage wasn’t as intense down there as it might be elsewhere. But putting up with that’s a necessary thing isn’t it? If you’ve got kids, do you deprive them of their interest in a sport just because they know less about it than you?
Amongst die hard fans it seems that if you love one sport, you’re forbidden from loving another.
I may be unique in this, but I pretty much love all major sports and pastimes in Australia.
That is, of course, with the exception of surfing.
If only someone had helped me with it when I was younger.
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May 31st 2012 @ 1:22am
Johnno said | May 31st 2012 @ 1:22am | Report comment
Just get rid of manly and cronulla and all sorted and bring in 2nd brisbane team and Perth.
With the new stadium issues Manly and cronulla are most vulnerable due to there location.
May 31st 2012 @ 5:13am
King of the Gorgonites said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:13am | Report comment
Agree about cronulla.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:33am
Crosscoder said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Yes KOG coming from afar ,it is very easy to be dispassionate about long established teams,and with little knowledge of the area involved,it would seem.
Armchair gernerals showed that well during the vietnam War.
J st give orther codes another leg up in sydney,by culling.Lessons still not learnt post SL
Expand by all means,but don’t cut your nose off to spite your face ,in so doing..
May 31st 2012 @ 8:06am
Andy said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:06am | Report comment
That is a brilliant idea, culling the only team that represents North Sydney in the NRL. The idea of a Perth team would add more to the NRL competition than a second Brisbane team.
May 31st 2012 @ 9:13am
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 9:13am | Report comment
If you hang around here, you get used to Johnno saying really, really, really stupid stuff.
Basically, if he ever agrees with you, look very very carefully to see if you’ve been sucked in to the wrong side of an argument.
May 31st 2012 @ 5:59pm
Milz said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
Ian the same could be said of you. A weird obsession with K Hunt and the Bangladeshi cricket team as a start.
May 31st 2012 @ 6:05pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 6:05pm | Report comment
Milz,
I love my Tigers
May 31st 2012 @ 6:09pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | May 31st 2012 @ 6:09pm | Report comment
A second Brisbane team will add an extra $100,000,000 to the next TV deal. Money that can be spent on the other clubs, as well as grassroots rugby league across the country.
June 1st 2012 @ 1:01am
81paling said | June 1st 2012 @ 1:01am | Report comment
The next TV deal will be signed in less than a year and not even the Brisbane bombers have a business plan on the table left alone members. No QLD club is ready and therefore no TV organization will take them seriously and the same goes for Perth. Ironically the only expansion club adding value to the TV deal is the one club that this article was clearly set against, the Central Coast Bears bid.
The Bears have 8000 financial members, a drawing area of over a million fans (uncontested by VFL), 7000 Juniors in that area and, a $5m signed commitment from corporate sponsors. With 2 leagues clubs making a post operating profit of over $7m each the Bears are clearly an amazing opportunity that are not permitted to be given a chance.
The reason they are not in the competition is because the license was given to the now bankrupt Titans, this was in the name of geographical expansion. The NRL may not have been wrong but, with all of their current vested interests they are paralyzing themselves as they are pulled by the interests of QRL, NSWRL and NEWS corp, meaning they have ltd options.
No team near Brisbane will be allowed as the share price of BBL would fall (owners NEWS ltd, do not care what happens after 12 months they need stock price rises or a greater return to investment at every half yearly and particularly AGM). QLDRL will strongly object to any perceived NSWRL team being entered. As for other teams well they are all a joke.
A League showed us how reliable Billionaires are. So QGIRL it appears that based on your $100m estimated addition to the TV contract you are in fact in support of the Bears bid as there is no reason this team should not enter the NRL.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:29am
Crosscoder said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:29am | Report comment
If their development gets the go ahead,maybe the vulnerable teams are further north.Try agin johnno.
May 31st 2012 @ 10:42am
Will Sinclair said | May 31st 2012 @ 10:42am | Report comment
If you’re cutting Manly you have to replace them with a Central Coast team that plays games in Sydney’s north.
The idea that the NRL can walk away from the area between Bondi and Newcastle to move to Perth is laughable.
May 31st 2012 @ 5:03pm
Meesta Cool said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:03pm | Report comment
Why would you want to et rid of the 2nd best team in the league…. get rid of the under achievers first and let’s get a better quality competition… Manly MUST stay, coz I hate em…..
May 31st 2012 @ 7:21am
steve b said | May 31st 2012 @ 7:21am | Report comment
All in favour of expansion the more the merrier !!!
May 31st 2012 @ 10:41am
Will Sinclair said | May 31st 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
You’re John Ribot in disguise, aren’t you?
May 31st 2012 @ 8:23am
jamesb said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:23am | Report comment
gulliver,
good article. Sadly there are people out their that only follow one sport, and thats it.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:26am
The Barry said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:26am | Report comment
You have a point, but I think that the main reason people are against expansion is because it usually involves taking something away from the long term fans.
Expansion is not the right word because rarely is there any expanding involved – the plan is to slash and burn and re-locate.
Already on this article in the first two responses we have people saying get rid of Manly and Cronulla. Why? Manly has been in the comp since 1947. Cronulla has been in since 1967. Both teams service large geographical areas of Sydney that no other NRL team touches.
Manly has been arguably the most successful team since 1970 with 14 grand final appearances and 8 premierships since 1970. To put that in perspective that is a GF every 3 years and a premiership every 5 – OVER A 40 YEAR PERIOD ! ! ! They’ve played in 3 of the last 5 grand finals. What have they done to deserve the axe? I am not a Manly fan
This is not expansion.
Come up with an expansion plan that doesn’t involve raping and pillaging existing clubs and you just might find a little bit more support.
If the NRL loses Sydney the game dies. Giving up massive areas of Sydney to soccer, AFL and rugby is NOT in the best interests of the game.
May 31st 2012 @ 9:49am
turbodewd said | May 31st 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Did you know Manly came 4th last in crowds last year? Not an ideal situation!
May 31st 2012 @ 11:08am
The Barry said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
So what ? Aren’t most of the dollars earned by the game earned out of TV revenue. The more important factor would be how they rate on tele. Given that they have regular Friday and Sunday FTA spots I’d suggest it’s pretty good.
Who were the three teams below them ? If crowds are your barometer of success then there’s three clubs that should be punted before Manly. How do their crowds compare with Western Reds crowds?
Forget their success over a sustained period. Forget how vital their geography is to league coverage in rugby leagues biggest city. Forget TV ratings we’re gonna kick em out based on average crowds for a team in Perth.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:12am
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:12am | Report comment
The Barry,
“Aren’t most of the dollars earned by the game earned out of TV revenue. ” is only true when you get crap crowds and low sponsorships.
AFL clubs tend to get a third of revenue from fans attending and buying memberships, a third from sponsors and a third from TV money.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:24am
The Barry said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:24am | Report comment
Ok…I’ll accept that comment is true…
NRL doesn’t traditionally have the memberships or attendance that AFL has. The NRL grant, which comes off the back of TV revenue is most NRL clubs main source of income.
My point is as things stand now, attendance is not the barometer for a clubs sustainability. Certainly not on the basis that they were “4th last in crowds” last year
May 31st 2012 @ 11:29am
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:29am | Report comment
The Barry,
A point I keep hammering home is Canterbury have done it right, and the rest of the league should find out what they did and copy it.
Look at their crowds here.
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/canterbury.html
This is not a hugely successful era for Canterbury. They are not winning flags, and they are not dominating the competition.
But they are still getting crowds that are reasonable *by AFL standards* – lets compare em to Port, for example.
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/padelaide.html
It wasnt a coincidence Canterbury, who are getting substantial money in at the gate, could afford to raid Manly’s coaching staff.
Bluntly, f.ck the TV ratings, and get em in through the turnstiles.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:45am
Australian Rules said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:45am | Report comment
A big TV deal helps the administration.
Memberships and gate-takings help the clubs.
May 31st 2012 @ 12:57pm
The Barry said | May 31st 2012 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
I’m not arguing with Ian – you’re throwing this stuff up in response to me stating that our most successful club of the past 40 years and only club on north of the bridge should not be kicked out of the comp because they “came 4th last in crowds last year”
I’m confused – are you supporting Manly being kicked out of the comp? You were bagging Johnno 5 minutes ago…
May 31st 2012 @ 1:40pm
Brendon said | May 31st 2012 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
I agree with The Barry… Im a massive rugby union fan and believe me i would love for manly to go in league. A massive proporstion of sydneys Union fans come from north of the bridge and it could monopolise the area for union.
May 31st 2012 @ 3:39pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
TheBarry,
Throwing clubs out of a comp is *the* most stupid single thing you can do.
Does that answer that ?
May 31st 2012 @ 4:49pm
The Barry said | May 31st 2012 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
Very happy to hear it Ian.
What are your thoughts on forced mergers or re-locations ?
May 31st 2012 @ 5:29pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
TheBarry,
At some point a club may find it cannot compete in the top grade, usually because they cant make payroll.
The following examples are all from the AFL’s collection of historical dirty laundry
At this point, a couple of things can happen.
First, the League as a whole can decide they are worth saving, and take steps. This happened to the Sydney Swans between about 1988 and 1992. It may well involve changes in on- and off-field management, injections of funds, or help organising new sponsors.
Second, the club can decide that it needs to voluntarily move somewhere else. This is what happened to South Melbourne in 1982. The League as a whole may offer assistance for this. Note that North Kangaroos rejected a rumoured $100m of AFL assistance to move to the Gold Coast in 2007.
Third, the club can decide it needs to merge with another club. This happened with Hawthorn and Melbourne in 1996, with the two boards agreeing, and the merger failing when a members revolt at Hawthorn voted it down. It also happened with Fitzroy and North Melbourne, but the other AFL clubs voted down this merger, in favour of a merger between Fitzroy and Brisbane instead.
Finally, the club can take the steps it needs to survive. In the case of Melbourne after the rejection of the Hawthorn merger, this involved voting out the existing directors, and electing Joe Gutnick on a platform of him donating a million dollars to the club once he was elected President.
In conclusion , ‘forced’ is an interesting word with these kind of decisions – was it forced if the league says ‘We’ll fund you if you do a,b or c, but if you dont accept these options then good luck to you’ ? I’d use North rejecting the offer of the AFL’s $100m offer to move to the Gold Coast as an example – they are in trouble, but it’s not desperate. In the case of Fitzroy, it was desperate, because the insolvent club was in the hands of an administrator.
May 31st 2012 @ 10:06am
DumpStar said | May 31st 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
“Both teams service large geographical areas of Sydney that no other NRL team touches.”
Manly I believe this statement to be true, especially since the Bears don’t exist, and I think if they got themselves a nice 25K stadium, it would propel them to get higher crowds.
Cronulla on the other hand are surrounded by St George-Illawarra. I believe there area could be serviced just as well by the Dragons, and Kogarah is not that hard to get to from the Shire.
May 31st 2012 @ 10:51am
AGO74 said | May 31st 2012 @ 10:51am | Report comment
You are obviously not aware that Cronulla fans hate St George and therefore would rather bite off their tongue than follow the team from Kogarah.
May 31st 2012 @ 5:32pm
Titus said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
As a Balmain fan I can’t particularly remember having a love in relation with Wests, was more like we looked down on them/pittied them.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:13am
The Barry said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Shire folk will not support the Dragons if the Sharks are kicked out or re-located, they will walk away from the game and turn to AFL, soccer and rugby.
You either don’t know or have forgotten your history. The Sharks were formed because people of the Shire did not consider themselves to be part of the St George district. There is long standing animosity.
May 31st 2012 @ 3:45pm
Dogs Of War said | May 31st 2012 @ 3:45pm | Report comment
Turn to AFL or Rugby? They are hard pressed leaving the Shire to attend away games of other Sydney clubs. WHy would they suddenly start travelling all the way to the city, or even worse Homebush?!?!?!?
May 31st 2012 @ 5:17pm
Crosscoder said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:17pm | Report comment
So you immediately dump a local derby,that averages around the 20,000 mark,due to the intense rivalry.
This rivalry built up over 44 years..Great marketing idea LOL.
And Toyota is not that far to get to for st george /Illawarra fans.
Gee I read some beauties,all in the name of expediency to put dots on a map.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:44pm
Dubble Bubble said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
It’s this dots on a map mentality that I think is most misled. I really do not think it does any one any god to lose any teams as is. Just because there are loads of teams in Sydney ain’t necessarily a bad thing.
May 31st 2012 @ 8:34am
The Barry said | May 31st 2012 @ 8:34am | Report comment
As for Origin…
The media disinterest and the disdain showed by the sports minister in Vic is the equivalent of the Central Coast locals trashing your gear. You never went back.
If we are going to regularly send one of our four biggest games of the year to Melbourne then it needs to be embraced or forget it. If the Yanks moved a superbowl or a world series and the new host didn’t show the game the respect it deserved do you think they would back up again?
Origin is our equivalent.
May 31st 2012 @ 10:53am
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 10:53am | Report comment
The Barry,
In my view, one of the structural problems rugby league has is if it isnt easy, their fans want them to stop.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:30am
The Barry said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:30am | Report comment
Not sure what you mean…the ease or otherwise of having an Origin game in Melbourne isn’t really the issue.
I don’t have a problem per se with a semi regular Origin game outside of NSW or QLD however I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect the recipient host to show the game the due respect.
This wasn’t the first Origin game played in Melbourne…I’d imagine ther’s probably been six or so since the first in the early 90s. Not too much to ask that the Vic minister for sport remember a) the name of the game, b) the team playing in the game and c) the name of the captain of that team. He wasn’t asked an arcane trivia question from 1983.
If that’s indicative of the level of support for Origin in Melbourne (from the head honcho) then why are we bothering?
May 31st 2012 @ 11:56am
Australian Rules said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Are you taking the p*ss?
The city of Melbourne was the host, not the Vic Sports Minister. He made some embarrassing gaffes…get over it.
Not only did Melbourne provide a bigger crowd than what Suncorp gets, but 313,000 Melbournians chose to watch it on tv…leading to record-breaking ratings for the event. Boo bloody hoo.
May 31st 2012 @ 1:01pm
The Barry said | May 31st 2012 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
I am over it champ.
The minister of sport was representing Melbourne and Victoria. It was beyond emabarrising that he couldn’t get the name of the game, the team or the captain. It was disrespectful.
If the AFL moved their GF to Sydney (it’s the only game comparable to Origin) and someone from NSW showed the same lack of respect you’d be howling the house down.
May 31st 2012 @ 1:40pm
Michael/Brisbane said | May 31st 2012 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
The NSW premier didn’t even get the name right?
Jeez the amount i’ve heard about this incident is unbelievable. Whether he said it by accident or not is irrelevent, he is ONE person. The fact is that 56 000 turned up and 313 000 watched it on TV. Yet all we hear about is one bloke slipping up.
May 31st 2012 @ 4:47pm
The Barry said | May 31st 2012 @ 4:47pm | Report comment
Well done Michael – you’ve just made exactly the same point as Australian Rules – just two hours later…
May 31st 2012 @ 5:48pm
Michael/Brisbane said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:48pm | Report comment
Yep, a very well made point to. But you still decided to carry on, so I made it again.
May 31st 2012 @ 6:22pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | May 31st 2012 @ 6:22pm | Report comment
How many of those fans at Etihad Stadium were tourists from Queensland and NSW?
If Brisbane had a 200,000 seat stadium then it would draw a sell out crowd for Origin.
May 31st 2012 @ 6:28pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 6:28pm | Report comment
Qgirl,
Yes, but it doesnt.
Its the week-in, week-out grind that funds such things, so I’d suggest the NRL should get it’s act together and get several teams into Brisbane.
May 31st 2012 @ 6:44pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | May 31st 2012 @ 6:44pm | Report comment
I think another 1 or 2 teams in Brisbane would be ideal, but I would prefer it if the QRL, ARLC and NRL worked harder at making the Queensland Cup a professional competition. I’d like to see a couple of Queensland Cup matches televised on Saturdays and Sundays, each in the afternoon before the NRL. If a network paid just $1,000,000 a year for the rights (plus coverage costs) then that’s money that could go towards the clubs and grassroots football.
Small stands should be erected at the grounds of the clubs so that fans can watch the game in comfort. Not all people have the skin– or the patience — to sit in the sun. Allocate some of the money from the TV deal to the Queensland Cup clubs so that the players on the roster can become full time athletes. If a player was paid $15,000 to $20,000 a season to play in the Queensland Cup then players from PNG, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga would be lining up play in the competition. Some would change their sport of choice just to play in it. Fringe players from Queensland and NSWwho will never get a contract with an NRL club would finally have a chance to make a living from the game they love. Many of the juniors who drop out of rugby league due to knowing they will never make it in the NRL might be inclined to stay if there’s a chance of earning a living in the Queensland Cup.
If it’s all done right then I can see clubs like Wynnum Manly and Easts drawing an average 5,000 to each game. The Northern Pride could easily draw 10,000 to 15,000 — they plan on having over 5,000 club members this yea, which is more than some Sydney NRL clubs. The Central Capras and Mackay Cutters could be just as successful as the Pride.
The talent pool would double in size if the Queensland Cup was made a professional competition. Having 12 professional clubs in the Queensland Cup, each with 25 or so full-time athletes who do nothing but play and train all week, would provide players on the fringe of the NRL a chance to develop their skills and harden themselves in a high quality competition BEFORE they reach the top level.
May 31st 2012 @ 12:25pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
The Barry,
Because you’re trying to establish rugby league in Melbourne.
If you’re going to do it, commit to it.
If you arent, then be happy with a game thats popular in Queensland and most of NSW.
May 31st 2012 @ 1:13pm
The Barry said | May 31st 2012 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
Establish ? Melbourne has had a successful NRL side for 15 years. Origin has been played in Melbourne for almost 20 years. What are the Storms average crowds? I’m glad we didn’t kick Manly out to let them in the comp.
Do you think one Origin game in Melbourne every 3 years is “committing to it”?
May 31st 2012 @ 5:43pm
Mike said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:43pm | Report comment
Maybe should follow the GWS commitment level to Blacktown Ian. Before half a season is up they’ve bailed out, now thats commitment !!
May 31st 2012 @ 5:52pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:52pm | Report comment
Mike,
How often have you been to BISP ? Now, kindly explain to me how we get 12 000 people into and out of that ground, and where the part of that crowd that isnt taking shuttle buses from Doonside station parks.
Centralising at Olympic Park is the only thing that makes sense, as anything else would need about $50m of roadworks.
Olympic Park, on the other hand, has its own train station, and a series of large freeways already leading to it.
May 31st 2012 @ 9:14am
Mark Young said | May 31st 2012 @ 9:14am | Report comment
As a Central Coast resident, I apologise for what some of our less gifted members did to your stuff.
What a massive bummer for you.
May 31st 2012 @ 9:57am
Go warriors said | May 31st 2012 @ 9:57am | Report comment
Not too sure if I agree entirely. By putting a team in an area where another sport dominates really there is not much to lose and plenty to gain. Everyone loves a winner and soon as a team starts winning everyone will jump on the bandwagon. It is possible to support more than one sport.
Just look at the Swans or the Lions. AFL is definately not the dominant code in these cities but if they were to make the grand final they certainly would not be short of support. Same goes with the warriors in NZ or the QLD Reds in rugby.
May 31st 2012 @ 10:21am
Jesse James said | May 31st 2012 @ 10:21am | Report comment
Good article gull’. What a lot of RL fans don’t seem to appreciate is the abslute importance of Melboure in RL’s future, to be a truly national game Melboure is a priority. Most people will BooHoo me on this but then go on and talk about the 1.3 billion they expect TV executives ot pay for the broadcasting rights to our game, and it is these exec’s that care about natioal coverage.RL must be steadfast and unwavering in it’s support of the game in Melbourne. RL has had The Reds, The Rams, The Mariners and 2 Gold Coast teams fold, I know there were circumstaces, Super League, surrounding most of them, but to the fans of those teams, all they see is that the NRL allowed their team to sink. Unless we want our game to be seen as a Fairwheather sport, our courtship of Melbourne must continue. After all who is going to support a new team in a new state if, the perception is that the NRL is going to allow them to go down as soon as tough times come, and they will!
Having said all that, I don’t belive an Origin there every year is the answer, maybe every 2nd or 3rd year.
P.S I’m a Parramatta fan and I don’t give two hoots about the Storm, only the game as a whole.
May 31st 2012 @ 6:30pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | May 31st 2012 @ 6:30pm | Report comment
The Chargers and Titans are the only ARL/NRL teams that have been based on the Gold Coast. People either don’t know or forget that the Chargers made a profit during the Super League era. The only reason they were culled by the ARL was to make way for the Sydney clubs. The merger between News Ltd and ARL meant the 22 teams at the end of 1997 needed to be reduced to 14 by 2000, and there was already a lot of animosity in Sydney about clubs being forced to merge, so they decided to get rid of another Queensland team.
The Seagulls, Giants and Gladiators were based in Tweed Heads, NSW.
May 31st 2012 @ 9:15pm
Jesse James said | May 31st 2012 @ 9:15pm | Report comment
As I said there were circumstances surrounding most of the clubs that folded, Superleague. The point is that once the NRL decide to expand they must stand by the new club, even if it takes 20 years. As they say once biten, twice shy.
May 31st 2012 @ 10:38am
Pot Stirrer said | May 31st 2012 @ 10:38am | Report comment
My only concern with expansion is i dont think there is the quality in players to do it and actually ad something. As it is now i bielive the game will become less exciting and return to the days when the same 5 teams will dominate the comp. What i would like to see is a return to 0 interchanges and bring back a reserve grade. By having 0 interchanges each club would not have to have 17 players on big money and reduce the financial burden. If each club could release 2 out of thier top 17 players then their would be 34 good quality players to fill an expansion team. The reserve grade would allow clubs to keep older players that are good backups in the event of injury and would also be a better step in the development of the toyota cup players. I believe the game is headed in the wrong direction as far as player development is concerned. If it keeps going the way it is it will just be pure power and strength that will see the end of the side step,chip kick etc. Much like the lack of developing playmakers becuase they are getting trampled out of the game at junior level.
Imo If you watch a game of footy from 2000 onward the standard of play is as good as it is now.
May 31st 2012 @ 3:57pm
Dogs Of War said | May 31st 2012 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
Did you ever look at the Bench of the Bulldogs team of the 80′s? Guys like Gillespie and Lamb sat on the bench. It doesn’t stop teams having big benches, just changes the role they play.
I do think there are too many interchanges, I would suggest moving to 8 and seeing the effect on the game over a couple of season, and then taking away 2 more interchanges if we are not seeing the results. We have to be careful about pushing talent out of the game over athletes who can play the whole 80mins.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:22am
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:22am | Report comment
PotStirrer,
Setting up a viable second tier competition is going to require a decent chunk of cash.
Basically, I think that with the extra TV money that the NRL can reasonably expect on their renewal, they will have the money to substantially increase club salary caps or set up a working reserve grade, but not both.
I think you’re kidding yourself on “By having 0 interchanges each club would not have to have 17 players on big money and reduce the financial burden” – whats the old expression ‘Have six props – two to play, two to be injured and two to be suspended’.
As well, “If each club could release 2 out of thier top 17 players then their would be 34 good quality players to fill an expansion team” will see an expansion team given either cap cuts (ie Jennings) or the worst players on everyone else’s list, leading to a team that is completely incoherent in style and personell.
If you are going to do it right, the team would need a 2 year runup, and the right to sign free agents before other clubs get at them. Personally, I’d also give them the right to sign 2 juniors per existing club as well.
But this assumes the other NRL clubs will weaken themselves to make an expansion club stronger, and they wont do that and the IC isnt powerful enough to make them.
May 31st 2012 @ 11:49am
steve b said | May 31st 2012 @ 11:49am | Report comment
Set a up a working reserve grade would be the best thing the NRL could do then set up expansion a few years down the track from that,, been saying just that for years..
May 31st 2012 @ 12:07pm
Pot Stirrer said | May 31st 2012 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
Ian, i didnt say set up a secondtier comp, i meant re introduce reserve grade, The NSW cup is basically a reserve grade. Id like to see it returned, it wasnt broke before so why they fixed it i dont know. If a club can only use 13 players and bring on a sub in the event of injury they will not spend on players to be used as high impact interchange players. What im suggesting is going back to the good old days before the super league which was when RL was simply the best.
May 31st 2012 @ 12:27pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
Pot Stirrer,
And the difference between full reserve grade teams and a second tier comp is what ?
May 31st 2012 @ 12:51pm
Pot Stirrer said | May 31st 2012 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
Ian, Difference is its already there, Just change the guernsy back to the FG teams, and play before FG.
May 31st 2012 @ 3:44pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
Pot Stirrer,
Stop coming up with snarky lines and *think*.
Reintroducing reserve grade is going to mean expanding lists and flying second-graders around the country.
Now, I’d be happy to do that, because reserve grade is where first graders come from – but theres a better solution, which is to steal the NEAFL idea from the same people Rugby League stole state of origin off.
That way, the Sydney clubs play in the Metro Cup against stand-alone sides, and the Queensland sides do the same. We’re going to make a decision about the Warriors, and accept we’ll need to spend some money on Melbourne and North Queensland, but thats OK.
May 31st 2012 @ 4:16pm
Pot Stirrer said | May 31st 2012 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
You mean like it was before?
May 31st 2012 @ 5:37pm
Johnno said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:37pm | Report comment
Ian did you want Fitzroy to continue. Did you think the merger was good or bad.
And do you think North Melbourne should stay in the AFL, or even go to Ballarat.
May 31st 2012 @ 5:47pm
Ian Whitchurch said | May 31st 2012 @ 5:47pm | Report comment
Johnno,
Absolutely. Fitzroy should have stayed in the VFL, playing seven home games a year in Canberra. Ross Oakley was wrong to white ant that deal to destroy them, in the same way turbodewd and the other fools here are wrong to try and detroy NRL clubs.
I dont know about your universe, but North arent moving to Ballarat in my universe – the new ground isnt going to be built. They are trying to make Hobart their second home, but to make that work they’ll need to commit there for the long term, which is a very un-Norf thing to do.
June 1st 2012 @ 12:17am
81paling said | June 1st 2012 @ 12:17am | Report comment
NEWS don’t have to recruit a 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade team to play for the club championship trophy. This takes the heart out of the game but, it means when they do the sums it is worth spending $23m a year on the storm to up fox TV connections in the South so that when the NBN arrives Telstra will hold their share in fox and with the AFL channel doing well NEWS may no longer need the Storm.
Therefore the Storm will be sold soon (pending the success of the AFL footy channel) or just negotiated back to the NRL for a good price (as it will be worth nothing without the support of NEWS) that should equal nothing but, will amount to millions.
Until then Fox footy channel really starts to bring in the subscribers we are stuck with a compulary game in Melbourne no matter if it is good for the game or not.
May 31st 2012 @ 12:31pm
steve b said | May 31st 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
yeah bring it back under 23s, res grade , then the first grade , whatever it takes, this was simply the best .All on the one day wearing the same colours solves a heap of issues and keep more players in the game . Ah for the good old days …
May 31st 2012 @ 3:54pm
Dogs Of War said | May 31st 2012 @ 3:54pm | Report comment
I think there is currently a proposal to merge both NSW CUp and QLD Cup together. Probably more into a conference type system to keep cost down. But if they did go down that path, it also opens up avenues for having say a WA conference, VIC conference, NSW Country conference(s) etc, with the winners of those going on to play each others in a knock out comp or something. Especially if the conference sizes were limited to say 6 teams each, it would only take 10 weeks to decide the winner, leaving plenty of time for finals. You could have the remaining teams left over playing say another conference or breaking off to join a local comp for the remainder of the season.
It would be a good way to keep secondary comp as a good way to produce/generate talent, while still keeping costs down.
May 31st 2012 @ 6:57pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | May 31st 2012 @ 6:57pm | Report comment
Us Queenslanders wouldn’t take kindly to our Queensland Cup being torn up.