Can old bad Cooper become new good guy Quade?
By Spiro Zavos, 1 Jun 2012 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- David Pocock, Digby Ioane, Quade Cooper, Queensland Reds, Richie McCaw, rugby, Rugby Union, wallabies, Will Genia
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Wallabies player Quade Cooper. AAP Image/Dave Hunt
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Quade Cooper’s recent interview with Greg Growden caught my eye. The sentiments Cooper expressed, if heartfelt and acted upon, suggest that during his long and painful recovery from his damaged knee, he has grown up and matured as a person.
This maturity, if it is the real thing, could be the makings of him as a great match-winning player rather than the flakey and often brilliant showboat capable of losing games single-handedly as he has been.
Cooper told Growden that he looked on his enforced rehabilitation period as an opportunity “to better myself”.
He said he was mentally and physically stronger than he had been last year: “Ability will on get you so far. The rest is hard work and dedication. My goal is to just keep getting better.”
In my view, there is generally a correlation between a player’s attitude to life and play and a superior performance. The great players are talented athletes, admittedly. But there are many talented athletes who never achieve greatness.
What distinguishes the greats from the could-be greats is a dedication to hard work, a commitment to improving their play no matter what heights they have already achieved, a confidence bordering on arrogance in their ability to turn matches at critical points and a certain humility that they are only as good as their last game.
In business talk this is summed up with the phrase “continuous improvement”.
If you look at the great players you see all these factors coming into play. To take one example, look at the way Richie McCaw has turned himself from being primarily a ‘fetcher’ to an all-round loose forward who wins lineouts, makes the most tackles, runs, links and passes and contests virtually every ruck and maul.
Compare this accomplished versatility with the one-dimensional play of David Pocock.
Getting back to Cooper, there has been a mental flaw and a playing flaw in his game. The mental flaw is that he is too intuitive, rather like Carlos Spencer, a brilliant flyhalf who never graduated to the great category because he never learnt to read the game accurately and to submerge his instincts to ‘express himself’ for the greater good of the team.
This mental flaw of Cooper is aggravated by the playing flaw of his unwillingness and inability to make his tackles. Spencer, a player Cooper grew up admiring, was also a poor tackler. He, like Cooper, tried to compensate for this weakness in his play by over-playing his hand with the ball.
Both Spencer and Cooper have found that it is not possible to play with touch-rugby brilliance in a Rugby World Cup campaign. The five-eighths who have dominated in RWC tournaments have been players in control of their instincts and their game: Grant Fox, Michael Lynagh, Joel Stransky and Jonny Wilkinson.
If Cooper is serious about the hard work and dedication changing his play, he has to demonstrate this with a huge improvement in his tackling. He says that the lay-off has allowed him to build-up some muscle, so let’s see it.
He can’t be reckoned to be a consistent match-winner at the highest levels if he has to be hidden away on the wing when his team is on defence. All those tattoos and the thin-eyed stare he affects suggest that Cooper wants to be perceived as a hard man on the rugby field. Let him prove by defending in the line and knocking over runners in the manner of Wilkinson and Dan Carter.
If the new Quade has emerged from the bad old Cooper, he needs to improve his attitude to his opponents and the general line of his often stupid twitters.
I know that the accepted argument in Australia is that Cooper was unfairly targeted by rabid All Blacks supporters during RWC 2011 and that the incessant booing and attacks in the media led to a collapse of his confidence and a series of awful performances.
To my mind this is nonsense. Cooper brought the attacks on himself by his infantile attempts to rile McCaw. There was the patronising tap on the head after the Wallabies defeated the All Blacks right on time at Hong Kong. And then last year there was the deliberate knee to McCaw’s head, which provoked a furious retaliation from Brad Thorn.
These incidents were seen for what they were in New Zealand, smart-arsed tactics to engage McCaw in an on-going series of cheap shots. McCaw didn’t buy into this nonsense. But the New Zealand public were rightly incensed and made this clear whenever Cooper played in a RWC game.
For his part, Cooper poured oil on these flames of outrage by twittering away in a manner that showed no respect or good sense. Again, the New Zealand public resented this juvenile posturing. I called this behaviour in a posting on The Roar a bit like ‘farting in a cathedral.’
I would make one other point about all of this. None of the other Wallabies suffered from the same abuse from spectators as Cooper did. Players like Will Genia, Digby Ioane and David Pocock were applauded for their play and received accolades from the NZ media and the NZ public.
Old bad Cooper brought all the abuse on himself. My feeling is that if the new Quade is really determined to be a good guy, on and off the field, that he will enjoy the same sort of rapture, if his play deserves it, that players like Mark Ella, David Campese and John Eales received when playing in New Zealand.
If, of course, is the key word. Well I am a big believer in the redemptive powers of sport. Players can change their behaviour and their lives through their performances on the field. I hope that the good Quade has learned from his time out of big rugby and won’t take for granted the opportunities he has had for growth, as a person and as a player, as he did in the past.
If the new good guy Quade becomes an adequate defender, he should be the number one choice as flyhalf. I know in the past I have argued that he might be better for the Wallabies playing like a Shane Williams-type of winger.
But if he really understands the flyhalf game and if, as he did against the Brumbies, play within himself while still being capable of the match-winning turn, (all the big ifs), then he has a mortgage on the playmaking position for the Wallabies for all long as he wants.
This set-up allows for Kurtley Beale to remain at fullback where he is most effective. It was noticeable to me, for instance, that T G Perenana (who is destined to be one of the great All Blacks halfbacks) monstered Beale in virtually every play in the Hurricanes – Rebels match and rendered him inoperative even before he was injured.
With the new Quade at flyhalf, James O’Connor can move to inside centre with Pat McCabe at outside centre in a type of replay of the Horan/Little combination.
And this brings me to one last point. What better demonstration of the new good guy Quade than a statement of loyalty from him that he intends to stay with the Wallabies until the conclusion of the RWC 2015 in England.
Unfinished business and all that…
Spiro Zavos, a founding writer on The Roar, was long time editorial writer on the Sydney Morning Herald, where he started a rugby column that has run for nearly 30 years. Spiro has written 12 books: fiction, biography, politics and histories of Australian, New Zealand, British and South African rugby. He is regarded as one of the foremost writers on rugby throughout the world.
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- David Pocock, Digby Ioane, Quade Cooper, Queensland Reds, Richie McCaw, rugby, Rugby Union, wallabies, Will Genia



June 1st 2012 @ 8:02am
Swapacrate said | June 1st 2012 @ 8:02am | Report comment
Wow there are a few people who hold grudges here, is it because they lose at rugby and the only avenue at getting some release is by taking petty shots.
Win at rugby, and then everything else becomes an opinion, that puts a smile on your face.
I wish people wouldn’t say things like “we’ll have the best backline in rugby” very welsh like, I lived in Wales, and this is all I heard. Apart from us cheating, and ref was always on our side. Making your tackles and points on the score board, thats what counts.
I think a future AB backline of Peranara\smith – carter\cruden\barret – sbw\nonu – kahui\smith\fruean – savea\gear\jane – smith\dagg\taylor are pretty good prospects as well.
Plus the odd one or two who pop off the conveyor belt.
Anyway, I think Spiros point was if Quade, took a lot of the non rugby stuff out of his game he could be a game changer, and would enhance his game. To me he is an awesome player with a few faults that need to be worked on. But if he worked on them, got his head space right he would be challenging for the World Cup 2015. I personally think Oz will always be a challenge, but having cooper, that is focussing on rugby alone, can only be good for Australia.
I like Oz doing well, Oz have had good rugby players in the past, and some classy players as human beings (Horan\Eales, I like fitzsimmons especially), I think spiros has a point, work on the humility, and his rugby game may improve. Rugby players only have a short career as a rugby player, he has a lot of years as a human being.
June 1st 2012 @ 8:07am
Riccardo said | June 1st 2012 @ 8:07am | Report comment
Spiro,
It’s refreshing to hear Cooper’s antics and consequences relayed with some accuracy.
The self-serving and victimist interpretations of the Australian media and indeed many Roarers are tiresome, unhelpful and hypocritical when you consider even just the behaviour of their national cricket team and supporters for perspective.
That said, I hope Quade has indeed grown up some. Frankly, the Wallabies need him. The man is a skillful pivot and if he can man up in the tackle, brings a lot to their game, which is good for rugby, let alone our rivalry.
June 1st 2012 @ 8:23am
Snobby Deans said | June 1st 2012 @ 8:23am | Report comment
Lot of talk about the “pathetic, childish” attitude of the NZ fans toward Cooper – boorish booing, disrepectful, etc.
I love the self-righteousness with this sort of player baiting; how dare those Kiwis act that way. Of course it’s never happened here in Australia. Maybe it’s more prevalent here in other sports than Rugby – thinking Cricket “Hadlee’s a wanker” or racial taunts of players from the sub continent – but it does happen. There will always be a section of people who do things at games that bring disrepute to the majority, and to tar all NZ fans with the same brush is ridiculous.
The fact is, while there will always be niggling plays or players, outright acts of thuggery such as Cooper’s knee to the head of McCaw will get the ire up – and in an RWC year, it just gives crowds a villan. Spiro’s point that no other player was taunted was accurate, and an indictment of the stupidity of Cooper’s actions. Kiwi’s have a great admiration for great players – hell, they respected Gregan more than most Aussie fans/critics.
June 1st 2012 @ 9:06am
Justin2 said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Snobby – this was more than a few people mate,. When you can hear it coming through loud and clear over the tv, Id say it was more like the majority.
Hadlee’s chant was a back handed compliment, the guy was a champion and our only danger so the crowd tried to put him off. Never worked but it became a joke really and I reckon most of the yobs chanting it would have loved to have a beer with him…
June 1st 2012 @ 9:08am
mania said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
hahaha j2 – a complment?!?! classic.
well so was the cooper booing. all in the same spirit.
June 1st 2012 @ 9:13am
Justin2 said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:13am | Report comment
ah no but if it makes you feel better then good for you…
June 1st 2012 @ 9:16am
mania said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:16am | Report comment
but it is cos cooper is a w@nker
u guys had fun chanting hadlee, we had fun booing quade. its all fun…well not for quade and hadlee but u know, sh it happens
June 1st 2012 @ 9:29am
Jarmen said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
Double standards prevelant at the roar oh the irony
Australia does it as humour
Kiwis do it as bad sportsmanship
That is the weakest justification of anything I have ever seen yet
June 1st 2012 @ 9:52am
Justin2 said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Where was the humour from the kiwis Jarmen? I dont think you understand the term “wanker” in AUS and how we use it differently and in different contexts.
You ever seen the movie Donny Brascoe? If you have you will understand…
June 1st 2012 @ 9:59am
ohtani's jacket said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:59am | Report comment
That just sums up the Australian mentality.
June 1st 2012 @ 10:04am
Justin2 said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:04am | Report comment
OJ – generalisation much? Brilliant…
June 1st 2012 @ 10:17am
mania said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
j2 – and u dont understand the term “booing” in NZ. its a term of endearment like sweetheart or honey.
June 1st 2012 @ 10:17am
ohtani's jacket said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Self-aware much?
June 3rd 2012 @ 9:06am
tommymonsternz said | June 3rd 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
i was trying to boo cooper to death. he created the whole situation. he copped a bit of flak initially, then he started smack talking about how it will motivate him and he didn’t care if he became public enemy no. 1. challenge accepted mate, it’s gonna take alot of work to shed that tag, george gregan held that title for 15 years, but he was actually good at rugby.
if your gonna talk the talk, get out on the paddock and put it to the opposition, not cry about it when you pissed of 4 million people.
June 1st 2012 @ 8:30am
Shungmao said | June 1st 2012 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Hopefully Quade will regain his flair and mojo, it’s good for rugby. Look at his comeback 2 weeks ago, 31,000 against the lions was never going to happen without Quade making his return. While we shouldn’t be making excuses for some of his W/Cup performances his form in the lead up was what you’d expect from your starting 10, what I think we shouldn’t overlook is in a couple of his bad games the Aussie pack got slaughtered, Genias service was erratic at best and Cooper only received quality front foot ball about half a dozen times. So while cooper was getting dished in every different direction, some of our so called tough men of the game should of stood up and worn some of the heat but instead lurked in the shadows because they didn’t want a tenth on what Quade was getting.
As for tackling, Quade can tackle, remember his debut for Australa at 12 and the games that followed his tackling was strong and consistent, his problem now exists in 2 areas:
1. His confidence is down, he needs to defend in the frontline 10 channel, this will actually build his confidence not hinder it. Yes I will bring more traffic into his channel but that’s okay because it also bring the ruck closer to our loose forwards, I think if he defends there he might even surprise himself.
2: His defensive decision making is off, he goes low when he should go high and visa versa but what frustrates me is his constant attempt to rip the ball in a tackle, this is where he ends to stop going for the big play and just make the copy tackle.
So welcome back Quade, you’ve got my support and I think you will get that Mojo back and brain’em!
June 1st 2012 @ 8:58am
ohtani's jacket said | June 1st 2012 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Why bring Spencer into it? Cooper set a new low. It was by far the worst performance of any supposed star in World Cup history. From now on, people will compare World Cup meltdowns to Quade Cooper.
I thought it was amusing that they booed him in Canberra. Clearly, the King of the Gorgonites will never grace his nation’s capital again.
June 1st 2012 @ 9:08am
Justin2 said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
As a born Kiwi he may have the worst personal performance and you guys would have the worst team performance. Take your pick which year you would like to put that award next to
June 1st 2012 @ 9:17am
Riccardo said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
“…you guys would have the worst team performance”.
How does that work Justin?
June 1st 2012 @ 9:31am
Team Taniwha said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:31am | Report comment
For some one one telling others to take a chill pill and relax, seems to me like some one has taken the red pills instead of the blue ones (red ones for evening remember).
Cooper might say all the right things on twitter and in the press, but the real proof is on the field in the heat of battle. Like some one else commented, his petulant reactionto the crowd after the missed penalty by the Brumbies on the hooter the other night suggests not much has changed. However, will await more time on the field will show.
June 1st 2012 @ 9:44am
justsaying said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:44am | Report comment
In hindsight I think there might have been Reds fans down that end of the ground, and his behaviour was directed at them. But I definitely had the same initial reaction as you…
June 1st 2012 @ 9:15am
Dally M said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
Seriously? “These incidents were seen for what they were in New Zealand, smart-arsed tactics to engage McCaw in an on-going series of cheap shots. McCaw didn’t buy into this nonsense.”
Go back & watch the Hong Kong match again. The stuff with McCaw was started by McCaw when he repeatedly targeted Quade off the ball at rucks & around the field, including lashing out with his boot while Cooper was on the ground.
Sure Quade did some dumb things as a result, but for f#cks sake, lets stop putting McCaw on a pedestal & blaming Quade for the whole thing otherwise you may as well get yourself a NZ passport!
June 1st 2012 @ 9:51am
Jerry said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:51am | Report comment
“including lashing out with his boot while Cooper was on the ground”
Seems like you’re the one that needs to watch it again.
June 1st 2012 @ 10:04am
Dally M said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:04am | Report comment
You are clearly getting confused with the Bledisloe cup game the next year, when Cooper kneed Richie in the head. We are talking about the game in Hong Kong when Quade supposedly started it all with a shove to McCaw’s head after the Wallabies scored. Try reading the post properly before popping off.
McCaw illegally cleaned Quade out at a ruck, where Quade was not part of the ruck, to try and unsettle him. Later when Quade legally cleaned McCaw out, he took exception & lashed out with his boot while Quade was on the ground.
McCaw also lashed out at Pocock when he was on the ground, after a legal cleanout, in the same Hong Kong match.
Quade shouldn’t have reacted & the knee to McCaw’s head the next year was stupid, but McCaw started the whole thing & Quade got the blame, purely because the NZ press made a big deal about the shove because McCaw is untouchable royalty over there.
June 1st 2012 @ 10:15am
ohtani's jacket said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:15am | Report comment
It goes back much further than that. These two sides don’t get along and IIRC only Drew Mitchell visits the All Black changing rooms after matches. The Wallabies were invited but didn’t show up.
June 1st 2012 @ 10:33am
King of the Gorgonites said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:33am | Report comment
Spot on. McCaw is a dirty player. I don’t care about that. It just means that if a player is dirty back to him them the nz public should just cop it.
June 1st 2012 @ 10:57am
Dally M said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:57am | Report comment
Unfortunately while we know & admit that Quade was a d%ck when he kneed McCaw in the head & all 7′s cheat including Pocock, no one in NZ & most Kiwi’s outside of NZ will never admit that McCaw ever does anything wrong, EVER!.
June 1st 2012 @ 11:08am
mania said | June 1st 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
i admit mccaw cheats. but the what is being purported here is he does it all the time. its occasionally and sublime. the guys a master
June 1st 2012 @ 11:15am
Dally M said | June 1st 2012 @ 11:15am | Report comment
He does do it all the time.
He’s just better at getting away with it than anyone else!
Props to him for that, best in the world. It’s like when he pulls on the black, it’s a cloak of invisibility.
He also does so much more around the field than any other 7 in the game. Ours area tad one dimensional.
June 1st 2012 @ 11:17am
ohtani's jacket said | June 1st 2012 @ 11:17am | Report comment
He knocks the ball on sometimes.
June 1st 2012 @ 11:20am
mania said | June 1st 2012 @ 11:20am | Report comment
i remeber one time when richie was on the ground and januaries leg was trapped between mccaws knees. ricky went to yank his leg out but richie let go at the last second and ricky over compenstaed and lost his balance at the same time that piri came through and smashed him. it was sublime and i had to rewind and watch it about 6-7 times before i realised what richie had done.
guys a master
but then saying that richies also responsible for the overt stuff that leads to turn overs, scoring / stopping tries. the guys just uber clever
June 1st 2012 @ 11:23am
Jerry said | June 1st 2012 @ 11:23am | Report comment
” Later when Quade legally cleaned McCaw out, he took exception & lashed out with his boot while Quade was on the ground.”
No, I know the exact incident you’re talking about.
Quade cleaned Richie out – not legally, but with a no arms shoulder charge – then decided to stand over him Jake the Muss style to show how tough he was. McCaw – not Quade – was on the ground. Quade’s follow through and tough guy stance meant McCaw’s leg was pinned by Quade’s, so McCaw kicked out to straighten it. It looked like it was a fairly uncomfortable position, though there was also an element of kicking out at Cooper obviously. Do you wanna consult youtube and see if you had it correct?
Here – have a look.
June 1st 2012 @ 12:07pm
Dally M said | June 1st 2012 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
He uses his arms in the above clip & he props before he goes forward & cleans out. If it’s not legal, then neither are 99% of the cleanouts i see every weekend. You will of course also note that Richie was offside at the time, playing the ball & was duly penalised as a result.
That incident was also after McCaw had already taken Quade out, off the ball & next to the ruck, in the first half.
You are hilarious – he just kicked out to straighten it.
Yep, just like Quade was getting up from the ruck & didn’t see Richie’s head when he kneed him or when Paul Carozza’s face attacked Richard Loe’s elbow!
Hey, at least you’ve managed to get the right match. 10 points for effort.
June 1st 2012 @ 12:38pm
Jerry said | June 1st 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
Cooper’s arms are tucked in at his sides – it’s the classic shoulder charge stance. If a player tackled like that, would it be legal?
I will of course note Richie is offside? Based on that clip, how the hell can you tell that? You can’t tell when he entered the tackle, if he was the tackler etc. You’re just showing your bias by assuming he’s offside.
I don’t deny McCaw kicked out at Cooper, but look at the way his leg is pinned – the kick is at least partly in reaction to this. Try it yourself – get someone to bend your leg like that and hold it there and see how comfortable it is.
June 1st 2012 @ 1:18pm
Jerry said | June 1st 2012 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Actually scratch that middle part of my post – I watched a longer replay and the refs call was correct. Though I’m not sure that Richie being offside is relevant – Quade still clears out illegally (you can see him cock his right arm by his side as he hits) and by that logic, Quade is loitering offside when McCaw kicks him…
I’m not arguing McCaw is lily-white in that clip, but it’s also fairly clear to me which of them has instigated the incident and it’s not McCaw.
June 1st 2012 @ 7:52pm
Dally M said | June 1st 2012 @ 7:52pm | Report comment
You need to get out & watch more rugby. It was a perfectly legal clean out.
He “cocks his arm” in preparation to hold Richie & drive him backwards, only Richie proved to be more easily moved than expected.
Richie was obviously pissed off someone as little as Quade smashed him off the ball. If it was illegal as you claim, it was right in front of the ref. Why was he not penalised?
June 1st 2012 @ 10:36pm
Jerry said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:36pm | Report comment
Umaga and Mealamu picked up BOD right in front of a touch judge. Why wasn’t that penalised – must have been legal, right?
There’s no arms in that clean out – he shoulder charges him. If a player tackled like that they’d get pinged.
Anyway, the kick – such as it is – is a pretty lame justification for Quade deciding he’s gonna try and niggle Richie every chance he gets for the next year. I reckon Quade was probably more pissed off by something later in the match…. go to 4:28 for the good stuff…..
June 2nd 2012 @ 12:28am
Dally M said | June 2nd 2012 @ 12:28am | Report comment
Why do you keep referring to a tackle?
It’s not one, so who cares what would happen if it was one. It isn’t.
Yep, i’m sure it was all one sided after the Hong Kong match. McCaw & no other Kiwi player targeted Quade EVER after that. It went both ways, but again you’re trying to ignore that & say that Quade was the only one niggling thereafter.
As if he’d be bothered by that, he’s missed a heap more tackles on lesser players that he would be more pissed off about.
June 2nd 2012 @ 7:56am
Jerry said | June 2nd 2012 @ 7:56am | Report comment
Well, you seem to think it’s ok to not use arms when you clear out. I’m pointing out that, just as with a tackle, it’s not.
(b) A player joining a ruck must bind on a team-mate or an opponent, using the whole arm. The bind must either precede, or be simultaneous with, contact with any other part of the body of the player joining the ruck. Sanction: Penalty kick
And while it did go both ways Quade was blatantly more to blame for the continued niggle the following year – you’re being wilfully obtuse if you deny that. He was doing it every chance he got, even Aussie fans were commenting on it.
June 2nd 2012 @ 9:24am
Dally M said | June 2nd 2012 @ 9:24am | Report comment
First you want to compare it to a tackle, now you want to say he joined the ruck. He cleaned out & past the ruck, not joined. Therefore there is no requirement to bind. You’re grasping at straws, trying to find illegality where it doesn’t exist.
Good. Another forward step for you & all Kiwi’s. You acknowledge there was niggle both ways. Apart from the knee to the head there was no more from Cooper than was being dished out to him.
So in summary – Quade didn’t start it, Richie kicked, Quade kneed, niggle went both ways. Kiwi’s are just more precious about someone daring to have a go at their players.
Tony Woodcock cowardly hit Saia Faingaa from behind a year or so ago & he doesn’t get booed every time he comes here, or do we go on and on about it? Nope, because we aren’t precious & realise that there is more to these things than just one isolated incident.
June 2nd 2012 @ 9:46am
Jerry said | June 2nd 2012 @ 9:46am | Report comment
He clears out illegally as he doesn’t use any arms. It’s not a heinous crime or anything, but it is illegal and with the tough guy standover, it’s laughable to claim that clip as justification for Quade’s later actions – he initiates the niggle there. If you can’t admit that, you’re simply being obtuse.
Just as you are if you can’t admit that Quade indulged in the niggle far more than Richie in subsequent matches.
But of course there was this ‘earlier clear out’ by Richie, that no one has ever been able to show.
June 2nd 2012 @ 10:05am
Dally M said | June 2nd 2012 @ 10:05am | Report comment
I never claimed it as justification.
You’re the only one trying to justify things here with your ‘obtuse’ arguments about Quade’s clean out as somehow justification for Richie kicking, sorry straightening his leg, at Quade.
Yep, it was Quade more than Richie in the subsequent matches, but only because others took over like Ali Williams.
You found the kick i told you about & proved i was correct about it happening, keep looking & you’ll find that first incident too.
June 2nd 2012 @ 10:21am
Jerry said | June 2nd 2012 @ 10:21am | Report comment
Can you actually find where I said McCaw was justified? I’m arguing that the clip doesn’t show him starting it, not that he is justified.
Yeah, I found the kick you talked about (I knew the incident from memory actually) and funnily enough, it happened nothing like you’d described. Rather than “Quade legally cleaned McCaw out, he took exception & lashed out with his boot while Quade was on the ground” it featured Quade illegally clearing out Richie and Quade standing up, not on the ground.
Given your obviously shaky memory, if anyone ever does track down these incidences of Richie illegally targetting Quade who the hell knows what we’ll actually see?
June 2nd 2012 @ 1:53pm
Dally M said | June 2nd 2012 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
I never said that clip was the start. You posted it, not me.
You didn’t need to say it, your pointless debate over whether the clean out was legal or not says it all. Not to mention your pathetic attempt to describe a kick as him just straightening his leg.
You’re just trying deflect from the fact Richie lashed out with the boot. Standing up, laying down. What difference does it make. There was another one in the match with Pocock as well.
Richie kicks, Quade knees they were both as guilty as each other & both carried it on. But only one was painted as the villain.
And as i said it wasn’t this incident where it began so to point to that & say it disproves Richie starting it is ridiculous.
You continue to make excuses for Sir Richie much the way most NZérs do while pointing the finger at everyone else.
June 2nd 2012 @ 2:22pm
Jerry said | June 2nd 2012 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
Pointless debate? Well, there is little point in any internet debate, sure, but I’m home and bored. You made a claim that Quade cleared Richie out legally and I pointed out why that statement was incorrect. Sorry if it’s inconvenient that someone might not accept your word as gospel.
Incidentally, I have actually watched the match up to this incident and the sum total of Quade and McCaw’s interactions is two tackles by Quade on Richie, both without incident (but well done to Quade on making 2 tackles). Quade has initiated the niggle , such as it is.
I’ll get round to watching the rest tomorrow to see if McCaw does anything else, but I suspect there will be nothing to see.
As far as the kick vs straightening his leg – have a bloody look. Quade’s follow through causes McCaw’s foot to be bent fully back. In that situation people are gonna try and straighten their leg. Yeah, there’s an element of him kicking out at Quade while doing so (which I admitted in my very first post on the subject, you may recall), but there is also a reaction to the position he’s found himself in, with Cooper’s leg pinning his foot back.
As regards Pocock, the only meaningful incident between the two so far is that in a scrum, McCaw attempted to hook the ball back (which, to be fair, is illegal I think). Pocock objects (partly because in striking for the ball McCaw comes into contact with Pocock’s leg) and there’s a bit of shoving. Pocock then obstructs Richie off the ball when the ball exits the subsequent scrum. Pocock has initiated the niggle there.
June 1st 2012 @ 6:00pm
Adam-15 said | June 1st 2012 @ 6:00pm | Report comment
shoulder charge while cleaning out? and richie straightening his leg? C’mon. I think they’re both as bad as each other it’s this stupid messiah treatment of the NZ public and media that has brought that has showed quade as the antagonist. I certainly do not condone the way quade hit richie when he was down. That’s a terrible example of sportsmanship for kids like me and rugby was not intended to be played that way. just praying to god Quade has taken this sorta sh*t out of his game
June 1st 2012 @ 10:38pm
Jerry said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:38pm | Report comment
I’m not condoning McCaw kicking out – I’m just saying that using that example as proof that McCaw was the instigator is wrong. Quade is just as much to blame as McCaw in that incident.
June 2nd 2012 @ 12:04am
Dally M said | June 2nd 2012 @ 12:04am | Report comment
Yes, because an opposition player should never, ever dare clear Richie off the ball when he is on the wrong side of the ruck trying to pilfer.
Regardless of how you want to justify a player trying to kick another because he got cleaned out, like i said, it started in the first half with a clean out off the ball by Sir Do No Wrong.
But hey, at least we have you half way, agreeing that Richie was just as much to blame. Doesn’t change the fact that the Kiwi’s ignored all this and painted Quade as the petulant sore winner who attacked Sir Richie unprovoked. Something even some Aussie journo’s like Spiro obviously bought into.
Quade was a dick, but it takes 2 to tango. Richie started it & then NZ came to his defence when Quade gave him some back.
June 2nd 2012 @ 8:00am
Jerry said | June 2nd 2012 @ 8:00am | Report comment
“Richie started it”
Prove it. The match is on youtube, lets see a link.
I’ve heard a bunch of Aussie fans say Richie started it, but the only evidence I’ve seen is the video I posted upthread which shows Quade initiating the niggle by clearing out illegally and trying to show how much of a tough guy he is.
June 1st 2012 @ 9:31am
Jarmen said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:31am | Report comment
Isn’t it funny that whenever the RWC in NZ and Quade is brought up
Aside from KOG a regular NZ hater, a lot of new names all of a sudden show up that have not been seen on any other thread, claiming to have been abused in NZ or claiming to know someone who knew someone who was???
June 1st 2012 @ 9:58am
Justin2 said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:58am | Report comment
Lippy will be along soon I am sure…
June 1st 2012 @ 10:26am
Ben S said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Boom!
June 1st 2012 @ 10:33am
Shungmao said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:33am | Report comment
Jarmen,
I flew over for a pool game, semis, bronze playoff and final. At all games I wore my wallabies jersey. Outside of 2 young fellas who’d had a bit too much on the beverage front, the locals were awesome to other supporters. Don’t get me wrong I copped plenty of verbals but hence why I wore the jersey, that’s footy!
The only unsavory moment I actually witnessed was in the bronze playoff (Entry D in the east stand, looking up from the field, 2nd tier on the left side. I’ve purposely given the location so roarers can post a comment if they were there),when Quade got hurt there was a lot of celebration which as a former player was strange, the gentlemans rule of rugby has always been don’t celebrate another players misfortune but I kind of got over that, but the cheers and high 5′s appeared in mass when the stretcher can out and he was carried off was ordinary to say the least, too the point the welsh supporters started abusing this mass group of unsportsmanlike people.
Finally the idiot running up and down steps that night with the written sign, something to the effect of ” quade you deserved it, and we wish you to never walk again” well I single you out as a dead set moron! But to be clear he was just a isolated incident, not reflective of what was the best cup I’d been too and the majority of people .
June 1st 2012 @ 10:41am
King of the Gorgonites said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Shun, that episode sounds typical of my experience. It’s lucky you only had one such indecent. It makes me sick.
I unfortunately had plenty of those type of incidents,espically at the Ireland match.
I must stress that there were good kiwis. Particularly in the south island. The people of Nelson were great, expect for the booing of the anthem. The south aucklander warriors supporter who said the nz leagues were all going for the wallabies were also great. They recognized quade for the talent he is.
June 1st 2012 @ 12:26pm
stillmatic1 said | June 1st 2012 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
maybe it was because you were acting like a fool yourself, KOG!? your attitude on here is case in point, and then you wonder why you cop some flak!?
for someone who consistantly berates people from another nation as often as you do on theroar, how can you believe that you are any better? or does being anonymous preclude you from any responsibility?
for a grown man, you seem to be complaining alot about not much at all. you ever been to a collingwood afl match before. what about an origin match? s@#t happens, grow up a bit and move on. you dont have many years left on this earth to be wasting them on what you call “childish, churlish behaviour”.
for me, i love giving as good as i get. been to many a league match at suncorp and got into it with the rivals. all good fun, and remember, its only words. sticks and stones and all that. did anyone threaten you with physical violence? or was it just that in the north island there happens to be a certain “colour” of skin that scares you??
June 1st 2012 @ 12:32pm
stillmatic1 said | June 1st 2012 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
when quade went down there was a cheer. but as soon as it became apparent that it was a serious injury the crowd shut up pretty quick. we were in the stand at the end where it happened and there was a hearty clap (just with any player) when quade was stretchered off. how can any of you claim that people in the stand “knew” of the extent of his injury “as” it happened? everyone initially was just happy to see him take a tumble!! im sure the brumbies faithful now know why he cooped so much flak.
if he hadnt of got injured, the welsh would have been in for a very long night. quade was absolutely killing them to that point. they wont want to be playing him this year either, no matter what his form is.
June 1st 2012 @ 12:38pm
mania said | June 1st 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
thanx stillmatic1. i was a bit appalled when kog said that people applauded quades injury. i just assumed it was the few but was still embarrassing
June 3rd 2012 @ 9:38am
tommymonsternz said | June 3rd 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
it goes both ways. i went a match at the gabba and i got absolutely wailed on. none of it was clever and when i turned it back on them with a good insult, i got told ‘if you don’t like australia, then f&%k off’, which makes no sense. however the remainder of the crowd around me erupted in a huge cheer, all aussies. so some cool people and some idiots that can’t think and can give it, but can take it.
you get bad fans and good fans. i have had great experiences and crappy experiences. i take each game as it comes and i’m more than prepared to engage in banter with opposing fans, it’s part if the fun. as for quade getting boo’d and cheered when he got hit, i would have giving a big roar, we love seeing the aussies take a big hit(oz vs. samoa smashed ‘em bro), i would never cheer if i knew he had a bad injury.
June 1st 2012 @ 10:35am
King of the Gorgonites said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:35am | Report comment
So was I the only Aussie in nz who was abused?
Or am I all thee other characters posting?
The fact is that nz would much rather pretend the abuse never happened. Well it did, and that can never be undone.
June 1st 2012 @ 10:40am
mania said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:40am | Report comment
easy on KOG – yes we’re embarrased about it but lets put it into contxt. it was just mean verbal abuse. no one was killed or raped.
so u had a lousy time at the WC, fair enuff but your trying to convince everyone else that it was a lousy time smacks of sour grapes
June 1st 2012 @ 11:13am
Shungmao said | June 1st 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Mania,
As a Aussie in Auckland after the final it was amazing, to be in a place with the whole country behind a team was an awesome experience. Having been in Auckland 20 odd times, the work they did to city was also top notch, to be honest the water front was crap before they got it into shape for the Cup and it was nice to have a few more options than just the “loaded Hog” aka “snapdragon”
June 1st 2012 @ 11:15am
mania said | June 1st 2012 @ 11:15am | Report comment
thanx shungmao now if u can jsut convinve KOG that it wasnt all doom and gloom that would be a constructive day for me
June 1st 2012 @ 12:22pm
Browny said | June 1st 2012 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
Wow, you make it sound like a dark day in history. ‘The abuse never happened’ ‘it can never be undone’. Conjures up images on par with the holocaust or the stolen generation or life in Guantanamo Bay.
I went to the semi final and the final. I wore my wallaby jersey to the semi, I got some heckling during and after, but it was all pretty tame. Mostly stuff like ‘four more year’ or similar. Nothing that made me feel uncomfortable.
Honestly I just think you’re a bit precious. I suspect you were the bloke that was still dobbing in people for teasing you when you were in year 12.
June 1st 2012 @ 12:27pm
mania said | June 1st 2012 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
browny – year 12? i dont thikn he’s that old
June 1st 2012 @ 5:17pm
Emric said | June 1st 2012 @ 5:17pm | Report comment
Like us kiwis recieve abuse in Australia every single day even to the point that your own former prime minister has said enough is enough.
The WC became a kind of nationalistic movement in New Zealand, Australians simply got what has been building for years.
June 1st 2012 @ 9:44am
Chris said | June 1st 2012 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Cooper v Spencer?
The stats would indicate there is no comparison; apart from two arms and two legs.
Spencer played 35 tests (started 30) and 291 points (14 tries); Cooper also has 35 tests (started 29) and total just 68 points, 6 tries.
Vast difference.
June 1st 2012 @ 10:00am
Moaman said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:00am | Report comment
Guys! Guys! Methinks you have all been trolled by Spiro here.Calm down and get back to talking rugby,fellas.
June 1st 2012 @ 10:19am
Jutsie said | June 1st 2012 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Do we really need to go over this stuff again. Quade is a big boy he can handle a bit of booing, richie is a big boy he doesnt need a whole nation to stand up for him. End of story.
I hope quade bounces back, he was a joy to watch during the s15 last year, the best thing to happen to aus rugby in years.