Carlton can’t pinpoint reasons for slump
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Carlton are battling to pin-point the exact reasons for their slide down the AFL ladder says ruckman Robbie Warnock.
Warnock admits the Blues were bitterly disappointed in their 54-point capitulation to Port Adelaide on Saturday night, their third defeat in four matches.
And things won’t get any easier in a hurry, with Carlton’s next four matches either side of the round 13 bye pitting them against competition heavyweights Geelong, West Coast, Hawthorn and Collingwood.
Jarrad Waite (back) could well return for Friday night’s big clash with the Cats, although evergreen midfielder Heath Scotland (calf) has joined a long injury list and is set to be sidelined for three weeks.
“We’ve had injuries but there’s probably lots of different things,” Warnock said.
“The guys who come in we expect them to play their role and play well but we can’t put our finger on any one thing.”
He conceded enthusiasm and intensity were down in the squad, which was something they must improve against the Cats.
Warnock didn’t believe the Blues needed to bring any more youngsters into the team with the current players needing to step up.
“The next month will probably give us a clearer picture of where we sit.
“We’ve just got to worry about Geelong and hopefully take it from there.”
The Blues had to abandon their plan to use three ruckmen when Matthew Kreuzer was a late withdrawal against Port with hamstring tightness.
“We’ve only tried the three talls once and that was against Melbourne and I thought it worked really well,” said Warnock.
“It gave us the structure we needed and you play Hammer (Sean Hampson) deep and Kreuzer at centre half-forward and then rotate through the ruck.
“It probably lightened the workload for the three of us so hopefully going forward we can go down that path.”
Meanwhile, Warnock said the players were “definitely” behind coach Brett Ratten.
His statement came after Collingwood president Eddie McGuire, talking on his radio show on Monday morning, said the Blues and former West Coast and Collingwood premiership coach Mick Malthouse would be a perfect fit.
“That’s a media beat-up … if you’re going to buy into that stuff you’ll be doing your head in,” Warnock said.
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The Crowd Says (30) | Page 1 of Comments
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June 5th 2012 @ 11:04am
Ian Whitchurch said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
I can.
They’re soft.
They lost the clearances against GWS, despite dominating the hitouts.
They then did the same thing against St Kilda.
Then against Adelaide, they managed to lose the hitouts. As well as center clearances.
Then they had Melbourne. OK. They won the clearances.
Guess what happened against Port ? Thats right. Carlton won the hitouts, but got smashed in the clearances.
Carlton. A team of soft, outside-ball-using passengers.
June 5th 2012 @ 11:20am
Macca said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:20am | Report comment
Ian – And last year when they were among the best in clearances & contested footy? What has changed since then – two of their best clarance players getting injured maybe?
I also read an article that said despite the fact that the blues have lost the clearances they have still been winning the inside 50 stat (this was before the weekend) maybe the loss of 4 key defnders has meant they are getting scored against more easily and the lack of the key marking forward has meant they aren’t getting rewarded for getting the ball in?
But I suppose considering these factors would force you to actually think.
June 5th 2012 @ 11:52am
Ian Whitchurch said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:52am | Report comment
Macca,
Chris Judd was a year younger last year, and yes, Carlton have had injuries this year.
You can play slick, effective, match-winning footy while being soft – remember Geelong of the 1980s ?
But it doesnt change the fact that if you dont get enough hard ball, you need to be very, very, very slick to get away with a soft style with a mosquito fleet forward line.
Carlton are slick, and they are a high skill team, and they are great with the run and spread when someone gets them the ball … but the hard ball gets are their problem, not using it well once they have it.
A much better line to run is ‘Yes, we need a couple of hard ball-winners to take the pressure off Judd. The club knows this, and I expect us to fix that in the draft and free agency’.
June 5th 2012 @ 12:04pm
Macca said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
Ian – Judd suddenly hasn’t become decrepit, what has happenned though is the bloke who shut down the oppositions best ball getter, blocked for Judd, won about 10 clearances a game and got 30 possessions a game on Carrazzo (you know the bloke who you would drop to get Hunt in the side, how is he going by the way?) isn’t playing. Neither is last years best & fairest winner in Murphy. And yes they have a small forward line which makes the loss of Waite even more damaging.
And as I said the won the “hard ball” very well last year and in the first few games this year and it’s not Judd that has changed.
June 5th 2012 @ 12:01pm
Redb said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
Yep, Carlton somehow missed that trend where you have to win contested ball.
June 5th 2012 @ 12:19pm
Macca said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
They won it last year didn’t they?
June 5th 2012 @ 12:32pm
Redb said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
Looks like Carlton are living in the past. This is 2012 and Essendon smashed Carlton in contested possession and other teams have followed.
June 5th 2012 @ 12:37pm
Macca said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Yep and they also smashed Carrazzo’s shoulder blade!
My point is it’s the injuries they have which has constrained their ability to win the contested ball.
How did Essendon go on the wekend by the way?
June 5th 2012 @ 2:07pm
Redb said | June 5th 2012 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
Fared better than Carlton.
June 6th 2012 @ 5:16pm
Wayno said | June 6th 2012 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
Many teams have injured players, yet seem to be doing well. Collingwood, West Coast Eagles, Adelaide, to name a few. Carlton were overrated at the beginning of the season, winning at full
strength against lower rated teams amd teams not at full strength. They’re a bottom eight side still, regardless of the hype.
June 5th 2012 @ 8:07pm
Lazy Ted Failyou said | June 5th 2012 @ 8:07pm | Report comment
Long time Carlton man.
What I can say is that these losses would never have been tolerated in the past at the mighty Blues.
Ratten has not gotten enough out of the team, the past 3 finals campaigns were failures.
Time for a change and it appears Brett’s cards are marked regardless of what is said here.
June 5th 2012 @ 11:06am
Macca said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Why the form slump, Missing at leat 3 and at times 4 of you stating 6 backmen plus 2 of your best 3 midfielders and your key marking forward is a start.
These players missing then means that other players being out of form like, Gibbs and Simpson, magnify’s the situation. Also Lucas and Watson have been their top draft picks of recent years and haven’t been able to do what some of the Collingwood “fill ins” have. On the plus side Bootsam has shown promise and Ellard has taken his chance and maybe they should throw Buckley into the mix to see what he has at the top level.
If the blues can win even 1 of the next 4, get to 7-7 with 8 rounds and laidler, Carrazzo et el returning (with Murphy to come) the additions of Bottsma and Ellard in place of say Bower and Curnow would see hte blues with a better side on paper than the start of the year.
June 5th 2012 @ 11:21am
banker said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:21am | Report comment
I can’t see them winning any of the next 4 though I’m not sure who will come back in the next 5 weeks (including the bye)..
June 5th 2012 @ 11:29am
Macca said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Carrazzo is expected back as early as the game before the bye but more likely the game after, Laidler is about the same. Henderson, Duigan, Kreuzer and Waite are possibilities for this week.
June 5th 2012 @ 12:11pm
Redb said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
Cartlon might win Friday night but then forget themselves again and lose the next 3.
June 5th 2012 @ 12:18pm
Macca said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
I am not confident about any of them but Geelong aren’t exaclty flying, the blues play well in Perth and West Coast just lost to the lions, the Hawks got smashed by Richmond and the blues beat the pies last time by 10 goals. There is a chance they will get a win or two and with the injuries they have that will almost do.
June 5th 2012 @ 12:35pm
Rellum said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
I am not an AFl person but I always wonder why AFL people never look at skill execution when judging why a team is doing well or poorly. It is always how they competed, the contested ball and the like. If your team lost it is because they didn’t put in enough effort. When I watch Carlton on the odd occasion the thing that strikes me is the turnovers that come from simple missed passes, poor handballs and bad reading of the play around them.
I guess my question is, why do AFL supporters and commentators rarely question a teams skill level?
June 5th 2012 @ 12:41pm
Macca said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
If the blues can get Bower out of the side at least 50% of those turnovers will disappear.
June 5th 2012 @ 1:01pm
brendan said | June 5th 2012 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
Macca you got off to the start you wanted 5 and one and yes injuries have played a part since then but you are missing the point Carlton have to improve this year regardless of circumstance or the recruitment of Judd and all the top draft picks come to nought.Under Ratten’s tenure the Blues have won a single final against a side who were unfortunate to cop the bye in the last round before the finals and if that doesn’t improve he has to go and re-appointing him was a mistake.In the next four weeks the Blues have to hang tough and win at least two games or there gone. Collingwood have had injuries and are premiership favourites , Geelong in comparison to Carlton who aren’t travelling that well also have injuries but dont have to prove a thing after the last five years so this fridays game should be a litmus test of the more committed team.
June 5th 2012 @ 1:10pm
Macca said | June 5th 2012 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
I don’t think it is a matter of win this year or get no value out of Judd, he still has at leat another 4 years after this one, their ruck division will only get better in the next 4 years and Murphy and Gibbs will be in their peak.
Yes they have only won one final but how many had they won in the 6 years prior to him arriving? And what condition was the list in?
And as I have said, the blues are still trying to build depth, Collingwood have played in the last 2 grand finals. CArlton s window is really next year on.
June 5th 2012 @ 1:32pm
brendan said | June 5th 2012 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
Ratten will not be there if Calton dont improve.
June 5th 2012 @ 1:38pm
Macca said | June 5th 2012 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
You better let Kernahan know of your decision then Brendan!!
June 5th 2012 @ 1:02pm
Nathan of Perth said | June 5th 2012 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
Well, wouldn’t quite say it goes unmentioned. Skills level definitely does get talked about and disposal efficiency is one of the three “key” stats that have been the rage this season (along with contested possession and tackles).
June 5th 2012 @ 1:11pm
The Cattery said | June 5th 2012 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
1. Get it (ruckwork, clearances, contested possessions, hard ball gets)
2. Keep it (efficiency with the ball, minimise clangers, present, honour leads, decision-making, back up team mates, spread, crumb front and square, run and carry)
3. Win it back (tackling pressure, contested marks, gut running, zoning, match ups, smothers, spoils, one per centers)
There are two teams out there thinking along identical lines.
So while Carlton might be focusing on no. 2 (because they have the ball), the opposition is focusing on no. 3 because they are working to win it back.
Sometimes it’s clear cut that a team is poor at no. 2, but more often than not it’s a factor of the opposition’s effort, work rate and organisation in relation to no. 3. There are two teams out there – no one is going to let you get an easy kick.
You can be assured that the coaching staff, including in-house statisticians, which number more than the actual team, are mulling over every single stat for their own team and the opposition, digesting it in double quick time, and making second by second changes to structures and personnel.
You sometimes notice with GWS and the Suns, with a metre of space, they are good by hand and foot, most players are, but as they tire, they find it hard to get that metre of space, and all of a sudden they are having to use the ball under physical pressure – and that’s a completely different ball game.
June 5th 2012 @ 1:18pm
Macca said | June 5th 2012 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Cattery – Would you say Geelong is soft? How many conteested possesion counts have they won this year?
I am not saying they are soft or that Carlton will beat them this weekend just that getting beaten in contested ball doesn’t mean that you are soft.
June 5th 2012 @ 1:22pm
The Cattery said | June 5th 2012 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
Macca
I didn’t call anyone soft – I was responding to Rellum, who was asking why people don’t talk about ball skills much (in his view), and I’m simply trying to explain that you can’t talk about ball skills in isolation becuase there is another team out there applying physical pressure as you try to use the ball.
June 5th 2012 @ 1:27pm
Macca said | June 5th 2012 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
Cattery – I didn’t say you did, I was trying to use your support of the Cats to prove my points raised above and refute Ian’s ridiculous assertion.
Wasn’t having a go at you
June 5th 2012 @ 2:03pm
The Cattery said | June 5th 2012 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
Fair enough – with the reply function, it’s sometimes hard to know which post a reply has been made to.
I think it comes down to there being more than one way to skin a cat (no pun intended). Geelong appears to be travelling well without high contested ball counts – but I think even they would admit that you ain’t going to win a premiership continuing on that path.
There were a few weeks earlier in the season where the uncontested count of both Hawthorn and Carlton were being touted as the way forward – but I don’t think anyone would be saying that now.
I think it’s fair to say that Carlton are currently missing a few strong bodies in the team through injury.
To lose to Port by 10 goals suggests something ain’t working well at the moment for the Blues.
June 5th 2012 @ 2:17pm
brendan said | June 5th 2012 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
Thats true Macca it is Kernahan’s decision but the bluebaggers arguably the no 1 team in the game have been reduced to a team of ifs and buts.After six years at the helm for one win in finals if that is the case it is a lay down misere that Kernahan will replace Ratten.
June 5th 2012 @ 2:30pm
Ian Whitchurch said | June 5th 2012 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
Macca – Carlton not soft !
Ratten – “It was also through this crucial period that they raised their intensity at the ball and the ball carrier, so much so that over the course of the first six or seven minutes we had something like 14 kicks and 18 handballs – which best reflected our overuse of the footy and our inability to make up any territory.”