Wallaby greenhorns? No, men-in-gold
By David Lord, 5 Jun 2012 David Lord is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Rugby Union, scotland rugby, Super Rugby, wallabies
Robbie Deans could be gone from the Wallabies at the end of the 2012 Rugby Championship (AP Photo/Christophe Ena)
Related coverage
David Pocock’s Wallabies for tonight’s international against Scotland at Newcastle have been dubbed greenhorns by the doomsayers. Don’t believe it; the Wallabies don’t.
They are men-in-gold, led by one of the best openside flankers international rugby has seen for decades in the 24-year-old Pocock, who was always destined to be Wallaby skipper.
Throughout his Force and Wallaby careers, he has been a lead by deed captain without the (c) beside his name.
Now it’s official: he’s captain of the Force and the Wallabies and will be, barring injury, for a long time.
Pocock is the first bonus, but there are five new caps in the starting lineup: blindside flanker David Dennis, prop Dan Palmer, inside-centre Mike Harris, winger Joe Tomane, and full-back Luke Morahan.
And a potential sixth new cap in flanker Michael Hooper off the bench.
That’s not a negative, it’s a huge plus.
Do you think for one moment, doomsayers, the new boys on the block won’t be playing out of their skins? Their adrenalin levels will be going through the shed roof.
And to prove the gold value against greenhorn belief, the names in bold for tonight are the best selections if everyone was fit:
15 – Luke Morahan is an exciting prospect, but no Kurtley Beale.
14 – Joe Tomane is also an exciting prospect, but no James O’Connor.
13 – Anthony Fainga’a is playing better rugby than Adam Ashley-Cooper and Rob Horne. Andrew Smith is knocking on the selection door.
12 – Mike Harris has been playing consistent rugby, a sharp-shooter making him likely first choice goal-kicker, and has a useful centre partnership with Reds team-mate Fainga’a. That gives Harris the team edge over Pat McCabe, the better player who is on the bench.
11 – Digby Ioane is one of the world’s best wingers.
10 – Berrick Barnes is tried-and-tested, and with incumbent Quade Cooper still game-time shy, the right selection. Zack Holmes is knocking on the door.
9 – Will Genia, the world’s best half-back.
8 – Scott Higginbotham has been consistently good all season, Wycliff Palu has not.
7 – David Pocock is David Pocock. He doesn’t need any explanation.
6 – David Dennis has been the outstanding Waratah forward in an ordinary pack, and deserves his selection.
5 – Nathan Sharpe is winding his stellar career down to retirement and should be allowed to do so. Cadeyrn Neville is the future 5, and should have been blooded in this Test.
4 – Sitaleki Timani is a big unit, and a big question mark. He hasn’t been outstanding in the Waratah pack. Hugh Pyle, Kane Douglas, or Scott Fardy would have been better selections.
3 – Dan Palmer is a rookie but a universally recognised scrum technician, and a deserved selection over Ben Alexander.
2 – Stephen Moore is the Wallabies’ undisputed best rake.
1 – James Slipper has played all over Benn Robinson.
There you have it, doomsayers. There is a lot of bold staring you in the face: 11 out of 15.
So, go get ‘em tonight men-in-gold and leave the greenhorn believers wallowing in their negativity.
The Crowd Says (39) | Page 1 of Comments
Have Your Say
- Explore:
- Rugby Union, scotland rugby, Super Rugby, wallabies

June 5th 2012 @ 6:30am
Untimely said | June 5th 2012 @ 6:30am | Report comment
DAVID – there’s nothing wrong with negativity if it’s used positively. However, the gold jersey can be pretty thin protection as recent results show. The power of a team’s positive thinking keeps getting shown up. There are dozens of instances when confidence turned out to be not worth a pinch of bat guano. I recall Matt Burke saying that when the Ws were about to face the French at Marseille, the team got together and said, “The hell with it. Let’s just go out there, play our own game, and come back winners.” Result? France killed them.
June 5th 2012 @ 7:05am
Kane said | June 5th 2012 @ 7:05am | Report comment
“They are men-in-gold, led by one of the best openside flankers international rugby has seen for decades in the 24-year-old Pocock”
I’m sorry I have to disagree with this. He’s nowhere close in my view, he still trails long behind George Smith in Australia let alone Michael Jones, Richie McCaw and Josh Kronfeld from New Zealand. Thierry Dusautoir played far better than he did at the Rugby World Cup as did Sean O’Brien and Sam Warburton.
I’m not saying the last two players are better than him but they did perform far better than he did at RWC 2011 but I am saying over all and in general Jones, Smith, Dusautoir, McCaw and Kronfeld are.
June 5th 2012 @ 8:17am
David Lord said | June 5th 2012 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Kane, “one of” doesn’t preclude David Pocock from being included in your list, all great openside flankers. But by the time he hangs up his boots, Pocock will be universally recognised as the best of them all.
June 5th 2012 @ 8:24am
Kane said | June 5th 2012 @ 8:24am | Report comment
I respect your opinion. I however think that if he ever becomes a full time Wallabies captain it will tarnish his legacy and leave him ending up somewhat like Rocky Elsom. Rocky could have become one of the greatest blindside flankers we’ve seen but his early departure overseas and his poor captaincy ultimately limited him. I also disagree that he will be recognised as the best of them. He needs to completely alter his game after he was so easily shut down in the RWC semi-final
June 5th 2012 @ 8:45am
Hoy said | June 5th 2012 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Kane, “one of” is inclusive surely.
Also, just wondering what you wanted Pocock to do in the Semi? Supposedly, NZ negated him by running straight at him for him to tackle front on. Good work. I am not 100% sold those were the whole tactics, as opposed to putting numbers into rucks quickly to negate any pilfering really.
But what do you think Pocock should have done to combat those tactics? Let the bloke run past him so he can tackle him at a better angle to allow him to pilfer? Let someone else tackle the man running directly at him, so that he can be second man there and pilfer?
Just wondering why you think he isn’t as good as other people think because he was negated in one game? The fact the Kiwis made the tactics to negate him tells you something doesn’t it?
June 5th 2012 @ 9:40am
Kane said | June 5th 2012 @ 9:40am | Report comment
I wanted him to get back to his feet and make the steal, much like Liam Gill has been doing so well for the reds.
I dont think he is as good as other great opensides for a couple of main reason. The first being that he can’t make a tackle and get back to his feet to make the steal. Two being he isn’t even close to the best when in comes to ball running. And three being that when the pressure comes on he either goes missing or gives away stupid penalties, for example the the two penalties that he gave away in front of the post at 9min and 12min of the 2011 RWC semi-final.
The fact that the kiwis came up with a tactic to negate him only means they thought he was their best forward, which doesn’t particularly mean that they thought he was good.
June 5th 2012 @ 11:04am
Justin2 said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
Kane – Your first point is wrong. Pocock is where he is today because he makes tackles and then steals the ball. NZ smashed him off the ball (fairly) so he couldnt get back to the ball after making a tackle. One match does not make a career.
I agree he isnt a great ball runner. He is more like a prop, in tight and grinding yards, not an Adam Thompson type.
So he gae away a few penalties. Thats also his jopb to go for the ball in those situations. If he doesnt and the opposition gets quick ball 7points maybe in the offing. Ritchie did it late in the S15 final too, so are you tarring him also?
You last line I dont follow the logic – you say he is the best AUS forward yet that doesnt mean he is good? The AUS forwards arent the greatest as a pack but I would suggest their best forward is better than just good, let alone not good. Fair dinkum…
June 5th 2012 @ 11:17am
Kane said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:17am | Report comment
No he is where he is today because he is the first man there after the tackle has been made, he very rarely makes the tackle and gets to his feet to make the steal.
So your saying it’s alright to give away three points instead of seven? Isn’t that what most Australians claim McCaw does? That being Cheat?
Yes McCaw does give away some penalties but you will struggle to find him getting pinged for the same thing twice within three minutes in front of the post (Silly Penalties)
Yes in my last paragraph my logic is correct. I’m not saying that he’s not good I’m just pointing out that by being the best forward in your team doesn’t automatically mean that you are good or great by any means.
June 5th 2012 @ 11:29am
Jutsie said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Why does it matter whether he is the first man there or if he makes the tackle himself, he still just as effective. His in the top 5 for most pilfers in the s15 this year (hooper and gill are as well), 2nd in tackles made, 3rd for pick and drives and 9th for most runs. And considering the position he plays and how many pilfers he makes he is only 10th for penalties conceded.
He may not be the same style of player as mccaw but that does not make him any less effective or important for his team.
By the way mccaw does not feature in the top 20 for any of these stats.
June 5th 2012 @ 11:53am
Kane said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:53am | Report comment
Hell if he wants to be the best then it matters because the best does do that and thus makes him more effective.
Yes your stats are correct but he has played 13 games and only made 9 turnovers hardly anything to write home about. However Ritchie has only been back from injury since the Waratahs game. Meaning he has only played five games.
June 5th 2012 @ 11:59am
Jutsie said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Actually it is considering that the 2nd most pilfers for the tournament (hooper/oustehizen) is 10. Gill is a freak at the breakdown and has 15 but in my opinion hooper and pocock have better allround games.
I still don’t see what difference it make whether he makes the pilfer as the tackler or the 2nd man in. His still making a larger number of pilfers than most players. The end result is the same so its just as effective.
June 5th 2012 @ 12:02pm
Kane said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
My point being that if he can only make the turnover by being the second to the breakdown then we are going to see him increasingly nullified in the Test arena like we did against the All Blacks in the RWC semi-final.
June 5th 2012 @ 12:18pm
Jutsie said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
I get your point now, but he’s played 13 games of s15 and no team has been able to repeat what the AB’s did.
We will have to see after the test season whether the AB’s or any other test team can repeat that performance but I think he can work on his game and still be just as effective.
June 5th 2012 @ 12:19pm
Justin2 said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
Kane I think for the moment you are making way too much of one match. If a trend starts to appear then come back to us…
June 5th 2012 @ 12:20pm
Kane said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
I too see where you’re coming from, I do back him to be able to change his game like McCaw has done, but in my view he needs to be able to do this, to adapt to changing rules to be regarded as one of the greatest openside flankers
June 5th 2012 @ 2:40pm
sittingbison said | June 5th 2012 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
and just to finish this one, don’t forget he had been injured and then played his guts out against the saffas. I think the ABs were lucky to get him at a crucial moment, and devised a plan to capitalise on it.
June 5th 2012 @ 3:15pm
Kane said | June 5th 2012 @ 3:15pm | Report comment
So you’re trying to tell me the All Blacks got lucky?
June 5th 2012 @ 3:40pm
sittingbison said | June 5th 2012 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
touchy touchy Kane. Try to look before you leap. I said:
1) They were lucky to get him at a crucial moment when he was overcoming injury and immediately after playing his guts out in one of the most brutally physically taxing games in memory against saffas in QF.
2) They devised a cunning plan to capitalize on this crucial moment.
I personally lean towards point (2) as clearly inferring they made the most of their “luck”, not that they were “lucky”, but make of that what you will
June 5th 2012 @ 8:47am
rl said | June 5th 2012 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Probably better to say easily shut down the entire Wallabies forward pack by targeting Pocock, knowing the rest were chocolate soldiers. Pocock doesn’t need to change his game, he needs to change his teammates.
June 5th 2012 @ 8:47am
Blue Blood said | June 5th 2012 @ 8:47am | Report comment
I have to disagree, I believe that Rocky’s inability to find consistent form and fitness were why he never reached the heights we hoped he would. Pocock has great potential as a player but needs his backrow to step up with him. Pocock looks amazing at Super level partly because of the strong support at the breakdown by his peers, particularly Hodgson. At the Wallabies he doesn’t get this consistent support. For Pocock to be seen as the best he needs to play beside the best. Too many Wallabies seem to play as individuals and not mesh well as a team.
Pocock as a captain, he will improve. At the moment I feel he hasn’t mastered the art of successfully conversing with the ref. by half time many of the refs seem to be blatantly ignoring him. His tact and approach to become a great ref whisperer needs to be worked on. Perhaps some of the past greats can invest some of his gym time into strategic ref communication. As a leader he will do well on the pitch. I do however think that his high moral standards will be a challenge for his peers to be able to relate and converse with him off the pitch. At the Force he has a leadership group of Sharpe and Hodgson to lean on; next year Hodgson will be pivotal in Sharpe’s absence. In fact Hodgson was who I hoped they would have made captain but that’s another story.
June 5th 2012 @ 10:39am
Sprigs said | June 5th 2012 @ 10:39am | Report comment
Do you really think he should lower his moral standards to allow other members to talk with him?
Was that advice ever given to, say, John Eales, or over in NZ to Richie McCaw? I doubt it.
Having high standards, including being non-judgmental of others moral behaviour, elevates a captain and creates respect.
June 5th 2012 @ 11:00am
Jutsie said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
He was injured for a large part of the world cup, but probably had the standout performance of any 7 in the QF.
June 5th 2012 @ 11:08am
Kane said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
He didn’t play the game against Ireland and he didn’t play the game against the United States. He did however play 5 other matches against Italy, Russia, South Africa, New Zealand, and Wales. So I don’t think he missed a large part of the world cup he missed only one more game than McCaw and as for that performance against SA he was still shown up by Bryce
June 5th 2012 @ 11:21am
Jutsie said | June 5th 2012 @ 11:21am | Report comment
He suffered a back injury against italy, misses two games because of it, in his first game back plays a half against russia and scores two tries and led the pilfer, offload and linebreak count (pretty good return from injury). In his second game back he puts in arguably the performance of the tournament (paul cully even mentioned it again today in his preview of the match for rugbyheaven)
His targeted successfully by the AB’s but thats more to do with the poor support he received from the rest of the pack.
And honestly who cares about the wales game, its a 3/4th playoff.
June 5th 2012 @ 2:15pm
jameswm said | June 5th 2012 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
Jutsie sometimes there’s no point arguing with an ostrich. Pocock could lead every meaningful stat and his knockers wold still criticise him. I think your comment here sums up Pocock’s tournament very well.
June 5th 2012 @ 2:39pm
Jutsie said | June 5th 2012 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
Yes, its the same with people trying to discredit Beale’s standing as one of the première 15′s in the game because of his below par RWC. Forgetting he was battling a hamstring injury for the most part.
June 5th 2012 @ 3:58pm
Kane said | June 5th 2012 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
As for his running 117 runs and 35 pick and goes yet not on top 20 for meters gained
June 5th 2012 @ 4:31pm
Jutsie said | June 5th 2012 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
Kane, kane, kane. C’mon man look at the big picture in the top 20 metres gained only 4 forwards feature, adam thompson, nasi manu, marcel coetzee and keegan daniel.
Its not a forward’s job to make big line breaks out-wide, the majority of players featuring in the metres gained are outside backs.
Im sure you knew this already, your being cheeky with your stats analysis.
June 5th 2012 @ 9:18am
ohtani's jacket said | June 5th 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Weren’t you bagging the younger guys just a few weeks ago saying none of them would make it in Campo’s era? Now it’s test season and you’re full of nonsense hyperboles.
June 5th 2012 @ 9:35am
Justin2 said | June 5th 2012 @ 9:35am | Report comment
I love the Zac Holmes “knockig on the door” bit myself.
Yep he sure is – its Bernie and Jakes door asking if he will get a contract next year or not when two better 10s are back from injury…
June 5th 2012 @ 9:38am
David Lord said | June 5th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
OJ, Campo’s era finished in 1998. What on earth has tonight to do with 14 years ago. A ridiculous comment.
June 5th 2012 @ 9:47am
Who Needs Melon said | June 5th 2012 @ 9:47am | Report comment
On Pocock, I expect this to make the Roar shortly but great headline in the SMH this morning:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/disturbance-in-the-force-pocock-set-to-jump-ship-20120604-1zsa6.html
I can almost hear the voices of millions of Force fans suddenly crying out in terror… and being suddenly drowned out by the cheers from millions of Brumbies fans.
June 5th 2012 @ 10:17am
Wilson said | June 5th 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
I wish that the media would stop the ‘reporting’ of rumours as fact. So what base is there for this story? Neither the Force, Brumbies or Pocock himself have made comment so this is nothing mroe than reporting rumour as fact. I’m frankly tired of it and I’m sure that the sports industry is as well. Stop pressuring the players in the media and do some actual reporting.
If Pocock does go then the ARU have 3 months to do something to secure the survival of the Force. And this will likely have to include international recruitment concessions as enjoyed by the Rebels. Otherwise the Force will die and no I don’t think I am over stating it as they have been in steady decline for years. I also predict that Hodgson will be captain next year if Pocock leaves; Blue Blood I agree with you, I think Hodgson was the more natural leader of the Force over Pocock. But they did it to keep Pocock and it is what the ARU/Wallabies wanted. Too much pressure, too early in my mind.
June 5th 2012 @ 2:53pm
sittingbison said | June 5th 2012 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
this is another scurrilous article purporting to be “journalism”, not a single sauce unnamed or otherwise, a single paragraph in the gossip column. These articles are becoming a joke, they are driving an agenda and seriously destabilize team, player and supporters often from both franchises. There was one claiming Sharpie was off to the Brums as well, then the next day one quoting Sharpie that he was definitely retired.
The Brums have Mowen as capt and natural leader, they have several other young flankers Faingaa and is it Veau (sic), they have a young team coming good that will need more payment for their performances so will need the extra salary cap money to keep them. And the basis of the article was that Pocock “has a strong relationship with Jake White”. Ermmm….WTF when has he had ANY exposure to Jake White, not at school, not as SA coach, not as anything. He has never played a single minute anywhere near Jake White.
Several rubbish articles like these have popped up over the last few days, distracting attention away from the REAL story that should be investigated, the piss poor performance of the Tahs and speculation over Foley.
The most disappointing thing about this drivel is it distracts from the greatest moment in his career, being captain of the national team for the first time.
June 5th 2012 @ 9:52am
Aussie Fan Club said | June 5th 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
if you look back at when they played at school together, Tomane would regularly show up O’connor, he scored most of the tries, comes from a both league and union background so is not a straight league crossover ike others, if you look at his strong running for the melbourne storm as an 18yr old, Tomane has as good a footwork and skills as O’connor, probably a stronger runner and more pace, when his confidence reaches peak and nerves settle he’s gonna be a very good player, he’ll own that wing spot in the future
June 5th 2012 @ 12:41pm
Happy Hooker said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
Short memory David. Remember Samoa last year? Wallabies had a number of debutants whose enthusiasm one would have thought would have been a huge plus, but alas it wasn’t enough.
June 5th 2012 @ 12:50pm
Jutsie said | June 5th 2012 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
good summation of the difference between samoa and scotland in Paul cully’s preview:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/scotland-to-unleash-chaos-theory-on-pocock-and-genia-20120605-1zsxe.html
The thing is Deans and CO really have no option but to play a B team against the scots with the short turnaround. IMO there are too many starting players in the team as it is.
For the sake of saving face the ARU should have scheduled this as a Aus Baa-baas v scots game or not have scheduled it at all. But in the end the bottom line rules all decisions made.
June 5th 2012 @ 10:57pm
Antony said | June 5th 2012 @ 10:57pm | Report comment
Greenhorns…..
June 6th 2012 @ 2:37am
Doomsayer said | June 6th 2012 @ 2:37am | Report comment
Where is today’s article David? Admit we were right, too many greenhorns.