Is there no excuse for excuses in sport?
By Ben Pobjie, 7 Jun 2012 Ben Pobjie is a Roar Expert
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- Rugby League, Super Rugby, wallabies, Will Genia
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Wallabies Spring Tour squad 2011(AAP Image/Patrick Hamilton)
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OK, so the Wallabies lost. To Scotland. For the second time in a row. A year after going down to Samoa. So yes, the Wallabies appear to have some major problems with the first game of the year, and also in playing poor European teams.
It’s a little bit embarrassing.
For them I mean, not for me, because I’m lucky enough to have stopped playing competitive rugby when I was 21 in favour of a career in over-eating.
So, fortunately I dodged the bullet of being a highly-paid international rugby star that could have ruined my life. Maybe.
The point is, in the aftermath of this tryless humiliation, I was reading an article on the match, and it mentioned how the Australians did, in fact, have a few excuses – the ridiculous itinerary which forced them to play midweek tests, thus necessitating an under-strength team; the nightmarish, almost Scottish conditions that turned the field into a pond and caused Will Genia to lose feeling in his fingers, and so on.
And in the comments of this article was one reader putting in his two cents’ worth, who used that well-worn phrase:
“NO EXCUSES”
And it made me think: excuses are quite unfashionable in the modern game. Players will say there are no excuses. Reporters will list the potential excuses, before emphasising that there are no excuses. And the Coaches’ Code demands that a coach never make excuses.
Hey, it was eleven/thirteen/fifteen/eighteen against eleven/thirteen/fifteen/eighteen. If you go on the field, you’re fit to play. Both sides had the same conditions to contend with.
You gotta take it on the chin.
It is agreed throughout the sporting universe. A loss is a failure of will, skill or nerve. There is never any excuse.
OK. So when are we going to get honest and admit that this is all bollocks? We all know there are excuses. Often they are good excuses. Sometimes they are great excuses. There are times when excuses are so compelling that frankly everyone involved with the losing team should be completely absolved from blame.
So OK, take the Wallabies. Not their finest hour, Tuesday night. But are we seriously saying that the only thing militating against them was their own lack of effort and composure, and maybe a dogged and determined bunch of Scots? Are we saying the absurdly short preparation, the absence of key players, the hideous weather conditions that made running rugby stupidly difficult, all played no part whatsoever?
That on a dry track, with a full week’s prep, a full-strength team full of players who hadn’t had to play the preceding weekend, Australia would still have gone down to that Scotland side?
Seriously?
The fact is, we know that any fair assessment of sport recognises there are plenty of excuses flying about, and it’s about time we acknowledged them. St Kilda lost the 1997 grand final, with their All-Australian ruckman Peter Everitt out injured. That was an excuse.
New Zealand lost the 1995 Rugby World Cup Final after half their team came down with food poisoning. An excellent excuse. For decades touring teams went to Pakistan and were fired out by outrageously biased umpires, and that was their excuse for winning. You’re telling me there wouldn’t have been a few more visiting victories if Pakistan had only been playing with eleven men instead of thirteen?
Injuries, illness, officials, weather and flat-out bad luck all play a huge role in sporting success, and it’s just a denial of reality to claim that there should be no excuses, as if every sportsman’s destiny is entirely in his own hands.
Remember the most sickening sports injury of recent times, Nathan Brown’s broken leg in 2005? Matthew Whelan fell on Brown’s leg, which took a revoltingly Dali-esque 90 degree turn. It should be noted that when the leg broke, Richmond, those perennial losers, were sitting at 7-2, and in the top 4, and Brown had been in spectacular form.
They only won three more games for the season without him – don’t you think that maybe that horrific turning point might count as just a tiny bit of an excuse? I mean, just looking at that injury on slow-motion replay would have been enough to make a man give up football, or at least television.
The history of every sport is a story of inspirational triumphs, gallant defeats, ecstatic victory and agonising defeat, but it is also a story of people who, after losing, were quite within their rights to say, “Well, what did you expect?” Sometimes fate takes a hand, and sometimes fate is a complete prick.
So I would like to call for the sporting world in general to be a bit more upfront, a bit more honest about the excuses they have every right to make. Everyone should feel free to call out the crummy hand they were dealt before a game, the strokes of horrible luck that put them behind the eight-ball from the start.
And next time a captain or coach starts to explain away defeat, it is not with a curled-lip sneer that we should say, “Oh he’s just making excuses”, but with an understanding nod that we should say, “He’s making excuses…and fair enough too.”
Excuses. We all have them. Let’s admit it.
Ben Pobjie is a writer and comedian writing weekly on The Age, New Matilda and The Roar, whose promising rugby career was tragically cut short the day he stopped playing rugby and had a pizza instead. The most he has ever cried was the day Balmain lost the 1989 grand final. Today he enjoys the frolics of Wallabies, Swans, baggy greens, and Storms. Ben is also the author of the books Surveying the Wreckage, Superchef, and his latest, The Book of Bloke, available from Momentum Books.
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June 7th 2012 @ 3:53am
murph said | June 7th 2012 @ 3:53am | Report comment
No matter which way it’s spun, no matter what excuses are injected into the equation, the one constant is Deans. His record is appalling and, yet, he remains
June 7th 2012 @ 9:46am
Pot Hale said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:46am | Report comment
But he’s a great excuse.
June 7th 2012 @ 8:19pm
Werewolf said | June 7th 2012 @ 8:19pm | Report comment
Murph deans has only so much control of circumstances, like injuries and stupid scheduling of matches. Look at the super xv we are struggling with only one side in the top 6. Use your brain!
June 7th 2012 @ 11:50pm
murph73 said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:50pm | Report comment
There were guys on the field suffering hypothermia and the bench was virtually unused. The man is a clown
June 8th 2012 @ 5:37am
werewolf said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:37am | Report comment
So you are saying that subbing AAC, McCabe in whats some say were the worst conditions for a test match ever would have given a different result? This in a game that making even one pass risked a knock on to the point that it would’ve been reckless. they wouldn’t have seen much ball.
or did you mean Phipps who is hardly a test standard player.
The only other benchy not used was S Faingaa arguably the worst scrumming no 2 in history.
You sir are deluded!
June 7th 2012 @ 6:08am
mania said | June 7th 2012 @ 6:08am | Report comment
the other constant is the wallaby’s. they need to take responsibility as well
June 7th 2012 @ 6:58am
murph said | June 7th 2012 @ 6:58am | Report comment
Nonsense. Have the same 22 been constant for the past 5 years? No
June 7th 2012 @ 7:02am
mania said | June 7th 2012 @ 7:02am | Report comment
have they all been wallaby’s? yes
was deans on the field when genia kicked it backwards or slipper collasped the maul or when higginbottom was driven backwards from the line?
this isnt solely deans fault. the players also need to shoulder the blame
June 7th 2012 @ 2:23pm
Dan said | June 7th 2012 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
Have they all been Wallabies? That’s nonsensical… They’ve also all been rugby players, born (mostly) in Australia and belong to the species homo-sapiens. You really need to have a few countervailing facts to control for extraneous factors here for the simple fact of them being “wallabies” to be of any relevance. The fact is that the wallabies generally do about as well as the top European sides (and so, have a tendency to lose the odd game against lesser opposition – England too have lost to Scotland within recent history).
The main thing the wallabies suffer from is a public with an overblown level of expectation. Australian rugby punches well above its weight when you look at the environment it operates within; a small country (demographically) with 4 fully professional football codes all vying for the players in which Rugby ranks … 4th in player numbers and in full-time professional playing roles on offer. What other top-teir country operates within anything like that environment?
England? No. Soccer is king, but after that Union has a strong domestic competition and League is an afterthought.
France? Just like England but without even a shadow of a rugby league presence outside of their solitary outpost in the super league.
South Africa? Race politics play a big role here, but after soccer Rugby is king and particularly with the Boer community
New Zealand? Let’s not even go there…
Wales? Soccer and then Rugby, with not much else.
Ireland? Well they come closer to Australia having soccer, hurling and Gaelic Football, but Rugby is still very strong and is the only football code to unite both north and south.
So in reality, Australia is a little like a larger Ireland with an even more competitive sporting market than Ireland.
With that in mind, perhaps it’s the perceptions of Australians that needs to change. Gone are the days when the professional prowess of Rugby League coaches and business men (Macqueen) can deliver a comparative advantage to a team competing against opposition still stuck in a largely amateur mind-set and perhaps it’s time we all start reacting to the wallabies accordingly – with pride that they compete as well as they do. Could they do better? Sure, but there are so many more complexities to the Australian sporting landscape than other countries have to deal with.
June 7th 2012 @ 11:31pm
IronAwe said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:31pm | Report comment
I was under the impression that rugby was a bigger sport than football in Wales.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:20am
mania said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:20am | Report comment
dan – so when do the players take responsibilty for their actions? all the rest you’ve said is smoke and mirrors. yes deans is partly to blame but the players are more so responsible because its their lack of pride in the jersey thats causing these losses. they need to get off their a55es and fire up. if this loss doesnt inspire them to play harder then they’re doomed
June 7th 2012 @ 4:21pm
murph said | June 7th 2012 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
Well unless we change the name of the team, there’s nothing we can do then. Logic101 wasn’t your best subject, was it?
June 7th 2012 @ 4:45pm
Dan said | June 7th 2012 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
Logic 101 isn’t a class, but if it was I’m guessing the relationship between causality and correlation would be a key component and one that might well be lost on you.
Point is that the wallabies do pretty much just as well as any other top side bar the All Blacks, yet we are all incredulous that they lose to some lesser teams on occasion and don’t take home the big trophies as often as we like. The players being correlation between our team’s success and the fact that our team has the name ‘wallabies’ doesn’t affect their chances any more than the England team’s success does from the players being of the white (and now occasionally black) wearing ‘England’ ilk.
It’s the environment that breeds the players that decides the probability of success, and the coaching structure of the national team is not – believe it or not – the only or even primary factor here (depending on the situation in question).
June 7th 2012 @ 8:21pm
Werewolf said | June 7th 2012 @ 8:21pm | Report comment
Dan thank you for setting murph straight. I’ve been trying for awhile. Alas all your logic will most certainly have fallen on deaf ears.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:16pm
murph73 said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:16pm | Report comment
Well, Logic 101 was a subject when I went to uni. But I suppose it isn’t offered these days because Wymyns Studies via the Prism of Interpretive Assyrian Dance probably gets precedence.
Anyhow, I understand your point that the Wallabies do well but they should and would do better if the selections were better thought out, the bench used better etc. The coaching structure isn’t the only factor but, in this situation, it clearly is. The Wallabies have much more talent at their disposal than they did 5 years ago and the team is going backwards. Losses to Scotland, Samoa, Ireland and, again, Scotland do not bode well at all. They are simply not being given the best opportunity to win.
We are obviously going to have to agree to disagree but the reality is that Deans’s win rate of 57% is the lowest of any coach in the professional era. At some point he has to take the blame.
June 7th 2012 @ 6:19am
matthew said | June 7th 2012 @ 6:19am | Report comment
It’s a shocker of a record, what is it 55 % including losses to Scotland, Samoa, England, Ireland also on homesoil. I’ve never seen such a poor record from a Wallaby coach.
June 7th 2012 @ 7:38am
Nick_Brisbane said | June 7th 2012 @ 7:38am | Report comment
Yes you have – as of today Deans record is exactly the same as Eddie Jones’.
played 57, won 33 lost 23 drawn 1 winning percentage 57.9%
June 7th 2012 @ 9:07am
Chris said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Ecept Eddie Jones did manage to get us to the 99th Minute of a World Cup final. Deans managed to get us to the wrong side of the Draw in the pool stages.
June 7th 2012 @ 7:45am
ohtani's jacket said | June 7th 2012 @ 7:45am | Report comment
The Wallabies have an excuse: Robbie Deans.
June 7th 2012 @ 8:59am
kingplaymaker said | June 7th 2012 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Very sophisticated reply.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:22pm
murph73 said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:22pm | Report comment
Why the need for a sophisticated reason? The most obvious answer is usually the correct one.
June 7th 2012 @ 8:18am
Jimmy said | June 7th 2012 @ 8:18am | Report comment
Scotland rugby is played in those conditions week in week out, they had better ball security in the wet and they showed a lot of determination and grit in defence.
Typical Australian Rugby fans, always want to blame someone. Losing is part of sport!
June 7th 2012 @ 12:06pm
redsnut said | June 7th 2012 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
Agreed with all of that Jimmy.
The surprise to me was that no-one got frostbite.
There are times in most sports when the weather makes a mockery of the match and a lottery about what the wind is doing in gusts.
What about giving the players some credit for managing any sort of game in those conditions.
Some people are never satisfied. Bloody whingers.
June 7th 2012 @ 1:01pm
Jarmen said | June 7th 2012 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
That is simply not true Scotland do not play in those types od conditions week in week out.
Sure it rains a lot in the High and Lowlands but that weather in Newcastle was extreme even by Scottish standards
Did you guys pay any attention to the aftermatch interviews?
June 7th 2012 @ 8:42am
Kane said | June 7th 2012 @ 8:42am | Report comment
There are no excuses in rugby… But there is Robbie Deans
June 7th 2012 @ 8:51am
Chris said | June 7th 2012 @ 8:51am | Report comment
If you want an idea of just how useless the ARU are then just look at the Brumbies v. Wales game on Tuesday… oh yeah, you can’t.
Australia’s top provincial side is playing the undefeated Six Nations champions and Foxsports isn’t even showing the game.
The ARU really should be putting pressure on Foxsports to show the game. That it isn’t really speaks volumes about the general decision making in that organisation.
June 7th 2012 @ 8:53am
Jimmy said | June 7th 2012 @ 8:53am | Report comment
These games are added after TV rights deals are signed up.
June 7th 2012 @ 8:54am
mania said | June 7th 2012 @ 8:54am | Report comment
was available in NZ on Sky
June 7th 2012 @ 9:03am
Chris said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:03am | Report comment
Jimmy, if the ARU were serious about it they could put pressure on Fox to show the game.
If costs are an issue they could even to the bare minimum themselves: run a single camera live stream on their website with a link to the ABC Canberra radio commentary. That wouldn’t cost more than $100.
There is really no excuse.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:10am
Jimmy said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:10am | Report comment
A few years ago when the Australian Barbarians (Australia A but they made them play in Baa Baa’s jerseys so they didnt have to pay them match payments) played England it was streamed live on the website.
June 7th 2012 @ 8:59am
Chris said | June 7th 2012 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Actually – an even better example of the ARU’s general management was the decision to sign Deans to an extension BEFORE he proved his worth at the World Cup.
Let’s look at his acheivements as Wallaby coach:
Led Australia to the largest loss in our history… CHECK.
Led Australia to our first ever loss against Samoa… CHECK.
Led Australia to our first loss against Scotland in 16 games… CHECK.
Led Australia to our second loss against Scotland in two games… CHECK.
Led Australia to our first loss against 6 Nations Wooden spooners… CHECK.
Led Australia to our first loss against a non top 10 team in the history of the IRB Rankings… CHECK.
Yeah… SIGN HIM NOW.
Almost as much foresight as the Raiders signing Furner to a three year extension.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:00am
Hansie said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:00am | Report comment
And I think, statistically speaking, Deans is one of NZ’s most successful ever Bledisloe coaches. Unfortunately, Deans was coaching Australia at the time.
June 8th 2012 @ 8:55am
Domo said | June 8th 2012 @ 8:55am | Report comment
haha that is funny:) you’ll find though that Deans is also the most successful coach against in All Blacks over the last 4 years. he has been the right man for the job since he took it knowing he was on a hiding to nothing. I just wish he was able to bring in his own assistants also because let’s be fair here he’s been pushing dung up hill pretty much on his own ever since he had the balls to take on the roll in the first place. If he walks (which he won’t) or is shown the door there’ll be only one loser- the Wallabies!
June 8th 2012 @ 10:18am
Kane said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:18am | Report comment
How do you define most successful?
Most wins?
He has three against the All Blacks whereas Peter De Villers has five
Best win rate?
He has a 20% win rate as does Marc Lievremont however Peter De Villers has 45.5%
June 7th 2012 @ 10:29am
Christo the Daddyo said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:29am | Report comment
Um…
Australia won the Tri Nations for the first time since 2001… CHECK
Lost to the WORLD CHAMPIONS in the World Cup semi… CHECK
Currently ranked second in the world… CHECK
June 7th 2012 @ 10:38am
Chris said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:38am | Report comment
and why did we have to play the World Champions in the Semi… something about having a dream draw without any Tri-Nations opposition till the Grand Final and then losing a pool match.
June 7th 2012 @ 11:53pm
murph73 said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:53pm | Report comment
Picked McCalman at 7 for a game against Ireland – CHECK
June 7th 2012 @ 2:11pm
Jerry said | June 7th 2012 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
Also Led Australia to longest losing streak vs NZ.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:26am
Brett McKay said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Chris, I’m happy to advise The Roar will have a live blog for the Brumbies-Wales next Tuesday night..
June 7th 2012 @ 10:46am
Chris said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
As eloquent as the writers of the Roar are Brett it isn’t quite the same!
Will certainly be making good use of it though.
Well, I still hold out hope of going to the game. Just have to get my hands of some of those free tickets the Brumbies seem to be handing out left, right and centre. I must be the only person in Canberra who hasn’t got one yet.
It’s not a financial issue, I just refuse to pay $80 to attend a game when I’ve already paid $800 for two season tickets. Seems to be an odd strategy the Brumbies are adopting… give out free tickets to all and sundry but make members pay $80 to use their own seats!
June 7th 2012 @ 9:03am
kingplaymaker said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:03am | Report comment
Excellent article though doubtless it will be lost on mindless posters who spend all their waking hours trying to have a go at Robbie Deans.
The weather made it a freak and unusual occasion and an extraordinarily difficult test that doesn’t give an indication of the quality of the team on a normal day for rugby.
However the real and genuine excuse is that this was NOT A REAL MATCH. A real match is where the players have not played Super rugby three days earlier, where an Australian first XV can be chosen to face a Scottish first XV, and where there is enough time for MORE THAN ONE training session. The ARU’s scheduling made this impossible and crippled the team so severly that they have genuine excuses for losing.
June 7th 2012 @ 9:10am
Chris said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Thats all well and good. But in 50 years time the history books won’t talk about the mitigating factors. They will just show we lost to a team that won the reverse Grand Slam three months earlier.
June 7th 2012 @ 9:21am
Red Kev said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Not a real match? Were the players using pretend balls or something?
It was a test match.
The Wallabies failed because they did not play well enough, end of story. If you want to blame the scheduling, you also have to blame the coach who selected 6 players in his starting 15 that had played only a few days before, just as it was the coach who only used 3 of his bench.
June 7th 2012 @ 9:34am
kingplaymaker said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:34am | Report comment
No, three days after Super rugby and with a non-first-XV is not a real test match. Deans had to select new players because it was three days after Super rugby and there is another match four days later when other players are needed.
Anyone remotely truthful and not simply out to have a go at Deans would admit it. How can you honestly say that playing three days after Super rugby with one training session and with another match four days later taking away major players is the same as a normal match? That’s outrageous.
June 7th 2012 @ 9:41am
mania said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
kpm – thats a huge insult to scotland saying it wasnt a real test match just because they won it. would u have said the same if the wobblies had won? alot of tier 2 teams ha to do it in the WC and all those games were counted as tests.
fact is it was a test match. prep time for aus may have been a bt short but this fixtures been on the cards all year. it didnt sneak up on deans and co.
June 7th 2012 @ 9:52am
Red Kev said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Well said mania – so Deans was dealing with the same issues that Samoa dealt with at the World Cup.
And well said B-Rock below – any and all of those measures could have been adopted – Deans just doesn’t plan for that sort of thing, he’s a poor coach.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:02am
kingplaymaker said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:02am | Report comment
mania it wasn’t a real test match because Australia had been crippled and unable to put out a real team by the ARU’s scheduling. If Australia ahd won it would be the case of a crippled near b-team outfit doing extremely well, but not a case of a victory for the a-team.
Prep time wasn’t just a bit short by the way, it was one training session after many of the players had taken part in Super rugby at the weekend.
An absolute joke of a match and a terrible undermining of the coach by the national governing body.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:10am
mania said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:10am | Report comment
no KPM – its sour grapes because wobblies lost. scotland didnt field their full squad and had to travel thousands of miles to get there.
prep time was similar to alot of teams in the NRL when state of O is on and the tier2 nations at the WC were put through the same thing. they had lump and accept it.
finally it wasnt scotlands fault that aus had a short prep time. scotland played as if it were a test. if wobblies didnt then thats their fault and the consequences are obvious.
wobblies need to take this for what it is. a wake up call. players need to get off their a55es and start putting some emotion back into their play and a bit of pride in themselves.
its only the 1st test of the year.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:22am
kingplaymaker said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:22am | Report comment
mania it was the best team Scotland could put out and the Wallabies preparation time was highly abnormal for international rugby.
The ARU did everything to cripple its own team.
June 7th 2012 @ 11:59pm
Nunny said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:59pm | Report comment
Frankly, the Wallabies should beat opposition like Scotland every time. Not good enough, end of story!
June 8th 2012 @ 5:34am
mania said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:34am | Report comment
KPM- your still detracting and belittling from scotlands effort. thats just disrespectful. if wobblies had won u wouldnt be saying scotland got ripped off, you’d be saying what a great effort aus put in.
scotland didnt make the players play super rugby 3-5 days beforehand. scotland didnt put up an aus A side. scotland didnt control the weather.
the scots got there and played to the best fo their ability and played better than the wobblies
theres a real simple lesson to learnt here; if its pssing down with rain with gale force winds u may as well try and move the ball because they’ll lose if they dont.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:09am
Kane said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:09am | Report comment
I can settle the matter here
http://www.espnscrum.com/australia/rugby/player/102694.html
It seems that Mike Harris was awarded a test cap, his first, for the match, which means that Australia were awarding test caps for this fixture.
http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/player/113301.html
Also Tom Brown the replacement Scottish fullback was also awarded a test cap, also his first. It seems that both Scotland and Australia were awarding test caps for the fixture which brings me to the conclusion that it was in fact a real test match.
June 7th 2012 @ 1:51pm
Max said | June 7th 2012 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
haha love your work kane
June 7th 2012 @ 11:38am
Morgan said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:38am | Report comment
Simple question: Would the All-Blacks have lost to Scotland in the same apalling conditions in say Invercargill? Sure the NZRU wouldn’t have made the silly mistake scheduling it, but let’s say it was the NZ Super 15 teams backing up for the All Black’s in similar circumstances, would they have beaten Scotland? Who knows, its a hypothetial question, which isn’t much help now, but I’d guess the All Blacks still would have found a way to win it, like they always do. What most Wallabies supporters seek is that same degree of confidence, that when our team takes the field, no matter the circumstances, we will find a way to win. We aren’t good enough yet to achieve such feats. The All Blacks are and that is really what fuels our passion to do better.
June 7th 2012 @ 1:12pm
Jarmen said | June 7th 2012 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
So by your thinking KPM Australia aren’t true 3Nations winners afterall NZ and South Africa did not play their FIRST XVs throughout the competition last year?
June 7th 2012 @ 9:40am
B-Rock said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Lets just say that if the Wallabies collective lives were riding on the outcome of the match – they would have done a few things differently. They didnt take Scotland seriously enough despite the earnest lead up interviews from Robbie and players.
They would have selected the team earlier and forced the starting XV to rest last weeks SR matches
They would have played a first XV with experienced players rather than start the rebuilding process post RWC
They would have had more than one training session so the newer players could actually form some type of combinations withplayers they have never played with in the past
The list goes on.
The Scots deserved the win entirely – better on the day. There is only one reason to schedule a game like this – money. The ARU need to put on as many events as possible, compromising the quality of the on field product in the process.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:24am
Brett McKay said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:24am | Report comment
that will do me…
June 7th 2012 @ 10:28am
kingplaymaker said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Somehow though the ARU seem to have got off scot-free and Robbie Deans has shouldered 100% of the blame.
June 7th 2012 @ 11:08am
Brett McKay said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
your appalling disrespect knows no bounds..
June 7th 2012 @ 11:42am
kingplaymaker said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:42am | Report comment
Disrespect for the ARU?
June 7th 2012 @ 12:05pm
kingplaymaker said | June 7th 2012 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
Or if for Scotland yes I watched all their Six Nations losses and their RWC losses and losses last year and I don’t have a high opinion of them as an international team: nor do I think they should need to rely on a biblical flood and near B-team opposition to win a match.
June 7th 2012 @ 12:10pm
Brett McKay said | June 7th 2012 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
for Scotland!! For Wales, for any opposition team for that matter. The Wallabies were beaten by a better team on the night. That’s all there is to it, and nor is there any shame in admitting it.
June 7th 2012 @ 1:49pm
kingplaymaker said | June 7th 2012 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
I’m happy to credit victory over a Wallabies team where they can choose their first choice players without being weakened by a match in the same week, or three days after Super matches they’ve played, or with a normal training preparation instead of a single session.
But this pantomime? Not at all, although it’s entirely the ARU’s fault.
Although conditions may have favoured them in Murrayfield, the Wallabies were at a low ebb, or Samoa faced a less than full-strength team, they still faced a normall Wallabies outfit and so deserve credit.
But this last week was a ridiculous joke and although Scotland played with gusto it was the ARU who lost the match. In any case I don’t see why teams that are ranked 12 should be praised to the skies, nor why northern hemisphere teams should be overpraised. Scotland lost all their six nations matches and didn’t even make the quarter-finals of the RWC. They have languished outside the top 10 in the world for years and so don’t deserve to be spoken of as dominating test nations. If they improve then they will but not now. Nor have Wales done much to earn the veneration they receive. They have beaten Wales and SA once each in the past four years and that does not earn them the right to be spoken of as the same quality as the Southern Hemisphere top 3. If they improve, they can be. Why describe teams in exaggerated terms instead of accurately?
June 7th 2012 @ 8:57pm
stillmatic1 said | June 7th 2012 @ 8:57pm | Report comment
since when do you post anything that isnt exaggerated, KPM? scotland won, wallabies didnt show the respect, desire and skills to deny scotland this win, end of story. your constant nonsense about the ARU is typical exaggeration, and without a shred of evidence to prove your opinion.
if grown men, who are professional rugby players cant get it together against such a weak opponent (as you say) then what hope is there. they wallabies seemed to be technically astute in things like the scrum and lineout, so how come they couldnt be as astute in the easy things, like say, ruck and mauls or throwing a ball out to the backline? ohh, its the lack of training you say, but clearly forgetting their proficiency in scrums/lineouts in the game, which take more teamwork and time to get right.
if league players can handle it, if baseball players, if european football players, if nba players can handle playing many games in a short space of time, then a rugby player can. it is their job, and most of it should be second nature for heavens sake.
and by the way, last year is done and dusted, so why should scotland be held to a standard based on an age ago? its a new season and the slate is clean and im sure their fans arent too worried about what happened in the 6n or WC now, are they? so they should be called crap for something that happened 6 months ago, but not for their recent results? geez, you really are beyond help, arent you?
June 7th 2012 @ 10:05pm
Ben S said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:05pm | Report comment
‘They have languished outside the top 10 in the world for years’
Yet again totally inaccurate and wildly melodramatic. Check the IRB rankings archive.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:10pm
Chris said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:10pm | Report comment
but did they have to ‘play Super rugby three days earlier’?
Over the years there has been considerable moans from NH clubs losing test players for internationals while their club season was in progress, it happens. This game was planned/on the schedule by ARU a long time ago, surely Super rugby takes second precedence to internationals?
June 7th 2012 @ 9:09am
The Bush said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:09am | Report comment
Excuses can certainly be made and accepted all the time. If this was the first unexplicable/unexcusable loss Deans had overseen, I’d be willing to listen to his excuses. But it’s not. What you fail to comment on about the Deans’ coached Wallabies, is that due to their continuous losing of games they really shouldn’t, it is difficult to keep allowing excuses.
If, for example, the All Blacks randomly lose to Argentina this year, or maybe Italy one day (two (2) sides that have never beaten them – think about that for a moment when considering consistency and taking every test seriously), I will listen politely to the excuses Kiwis throw up, because the loss was an anomoly.
Excuses from the Wallabies doesn’t cut it because of the consistency with which they fail. If I stuffed up that many contests, with the talent at my disposal that Deans has (i.e. losses to Samoa, Scotland twice, England twice including at home, Ireland and the longest losing streak against the Kiwis ever), I’d get the sack because my bosses would be tired of hearing the excuses.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:01am
B-Rock said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:01am | Report comment
To continue the analogy – You would only get the sack if there was someone better to replace you with – not sure any candidates are really knocking on the door. Trust me, you can do worse than Deans.
Also, I think Australians should not expect the Wallabies to win every game they play even against average opposition. We are simply not that good. We will have good teams once every three or four years (I think we overachieved last year) which should be able to beat the ABs/Boks for a time, but we are never going to match them for consistency over extended periods for a number of reasons, most notably depth.
Lets all just get some perspective and say yes we should beat Scotland/Samoa, but we will always be inconsistent and as a result should be disappointed but not shocked at results like this. Lets celebrate the upset wins over top 3 countries as underdogs rather than expect to always be number 1.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:17am
The Bush said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Even Connolly didn’t lease a pool game at a World Cup when he was in charge – you have to go back to the 1995 Rugby World Cup to find the last time an Australian team didn’t win all their pool matches.
We hadn’t lost to Scotland for something like twenty years before Deans did it in 2009 – now he’s done it twice.
It’s perplexing that people undersell the Wallabies abilities so much.
I agree they’ll never be New Zealand (see my comment about how they have never lost to Argentina, Italy or Ireland – quite amazing), but surely we can expect more out of them than what gets dished up season after season under Deans?
As to your to point – an employer may not be inclinded to sack me due to a lack of talent underneath me. It’s hard to see how a high profile job like being Wallaby coach would suffer the same dearth of interest; for example I doubt the renumeration is insufficient and the profile in rugby terms is pretty damn high. Let’s not forget the lifestyle…
June 7th 2012 @ 12:23pm
B-Rock said | June 7th 2012 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Bush – Not a case of underselling, just looking at this somewhat objectively. A few questions:
– How many world XV players do the wallabies have? one, two? surely not many more
– There is no arguing on the depth front surely
– How many Australian coaches are capable of leading national teams including those off shore currently – surely no more than three or four…
… which brings me to Deans. He is not great (selections/substitutions particularly) but the other options are not necessarily better. I would personally prefer Link but not so long ago he was hounded out of Sydney and not considered good enough to coach the Tahs.
What i’m getting at is that sentiment can shift pretty quickly. Deans is in the dog house now but is also not blessed with the resources of other top 5 countries. A bit of luck (few injuries) and some key players coming into form can turn around the perception of his coaching within a season.
June 7th 2012 @ 1:05pm
kiwi said | June 7th 2012 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
B-Rok,
Re: World XV players… Three and two halves, IMHO (based on those that scare me as an AB supporter.)
Genia, Ione, Pocock (full)
O’Connor, Beale (half)
Unfortunately not enough of them were available (for a number of reasons) – or played to their potential – on the night. Plus the game-time conditions neutered a lot of their potency.
June 7th 2012 @ 1:28pm
B-Rock said | June 7th 2012 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Interesting – an AB supporter puts Pocock in the World XV ahead of McCaw
Genia and Iaone are my only 2 world XV players, Pocock will be in a few yrs once McCaw starts to slide but then Warburton is up there too. Dagg ahead of Beale and JOC would be on the bench for mine – not enough of a standout at any one position but provides good cover
June 7th 2012 @ 3:52pm
Sprigs said | June 7th 2012 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
I realise it was probably just an accidental omission but you missed out Quade Cooper in the full list.
June 7th 2012 @ 5:47pm
kiwi said | June 7th 2012 @ 5:47pm | Report comment
B-Rock
Would try really hard to have McCaw and Pocock on together – either playing left and right, or playing McCaw at 6.
June 7th 2012 @ 5:48pm
kiwi said | June 7th 2012 @ 5:48pm | Report comment
Sprigs
Who???
June 7th 2012 @ 9:14am
kingplaymaker said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:14am | Report comment
Sorry the Bush that wasn’t a real match, the Wallabies were crippled by the scheduling-look at my post above.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:13am
Kane said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:13am | Report comment
If you claim that this wasn’t a real test match then you must also claim that you didn’t win a real Tri-Nations last year
June 7th 2012 @ 10:17am
The Bush said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Record books say otherwise. Talk about sore loser…
We lost a Test Match fair and square.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:24am
kingplaymaker said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Talk about someone looking to find a scapegoat instead of blaming the culprit, the ARU, for cripping its own team with the scheduling. Show some honesty.
June 7th 2012 @ 3:00pm
M.O.C. said | June 7th 2012 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
What exactly is a REAL test then KPM – everyone fit and healthy on both sides with exactly four weeks rest? – apparently three days rest makes it not real, is it real after four days?, perhaps five? – come on now