Puzzles for the new NRL CEO to solve
Roar Guru By MG Burbank, 7 Jun 2012 MG Burbank is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- David Gallop, John Grant, NRL, Rugby League
NRL CEO David Gallop speaks to waiting media. AAP Image/Joe Castro
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Bravo, John Grant. While I’ve never borne the seething contempt for David Gallop that others have carried around for 10 years, it has been clear to me for some time that the intended dynamism of the new commission was not reflected in its chief executive.
Chairman Grant called Gallop’s approach to the business of league “reactive”. An elegant euphemism and necessary considering a man had just been fired. As an independent observer, I would call Gallop pedestrian.
Yes, the game has grown strongly over the last decade but the roots had been laid down for its flowering a decade earlier, when the NSWRL cracked down on violence, introduced the 10-metre rule and sped up play-the-balls. The result was a flood of brilliant, younger players into the elite level of the sport. Only the Super League war halted the game’s advances.
David Gallop’s greatest achievement was getting out of the way, especially with regard to the creation of the independent commission. Ultimately, he allowed circumstances to eventuate that guaranteed his demise.
The eight-person body now running the game has no time for equivocation. They want someone who will attack the game’s problems, not provide hollow justifications for inaction.
Let us begin with the stadium policy in Sydney. This is the biggest issue facing the game: how the new CEO responds to it will carry ramifications for all aspects of league’s future.
There are too many teams in Sydney. New fans are not attracted to the old, small suburban grounds, no matter how much resonance they have for the Sydney clubs’ most loyal supporters.
A two-stadium policy won’t be the answer. It’s hard enough to fill Leichhardt or Toyota Park- the chances of fans driving long distances to an ostensibly neutral venue are slim.
So the new boss will have to find the right mix of rationalisation, relocation, careful selection of the biggest derbies for the bigger grounds or, least attractive to most politicians and administrators, more funding for improvement at suburban stadia.
Connected to this issue is the question of expansion. The AFL is not trying to rule Sydney by creating the Greater Western Sydney franchise, it is simply attempting to gain a stronger foothold. League must take the same approach. Perth awaits, as does the south island of New Zealand and another Brisbane team.
The question is: how much is the new CEO prepared to spread the available talent? The old 20-team competition was a debacle. I believe 18 is too many.
How will he guarantee that the new teams in new frontiers will be at the very least relatively competitive?
Which circles us back around to the salary cap. Teams must get larger exemptions for players they develop into superstars. Champion teams need to stay together if they can afford it; the unintended yet positive result of this is that it forces those clubs’ talented younger players, unable to dislodge the elite performers above them, to find positions elsewhere.
Fans form stronger bonds with successful clubs whose players remain constant over the years. Other teams are forced to develop players who they can also then have some assurance of holding onto.
The new CEO will have to balance the need to equalise the talent level between teams with an acknowledgment that the current system forces players to move clubs, codes, countries.
These are just the starting point. But the game’s future has never been more promising. With a fearless, innovative CEO at the top, this next epoch in the game’s evolution should be rugby league’s best so far.
The Crowd Says (60) | Page 1 of Comments
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- David Gallop, John Grant, NRL, Rugby League
June 7th 2012 @ 8:43am
Ian Whitchurch said | June 7th 2012 @ 8:43am | Report comment
The first challenge is the fuzzy thinking of it’s supporters
“The result was a flood of brilliant, younger players into the elite level of the sport. Only the Super League war halted the game’s advances.” … followed by …
“how much is the new CEO prepared to spread the available talent? The old 20-team competition was a debacle”.
Either the game was advancing as the brilliant younger players progressed into the elite levels of the sport via the old 20 team competition, or it was a debacle. Pick one.
Me, I say that more teams equals more opportunities for talent to show itself, and I also say that 20 team competition developed some pretty good crowds.
Theres more fuzzy thinking here
“Teams must get larger exemptions for players they develop into superstars. Champion teams need to stay together if they can afford it; the unintended yet positive result of this is that it forces those clubs’ talented younger players, unable to dislodge the elite performers above them, to find positions elsewhere.”
For a start, forcing second tier players to find spots elsewhere isnt unintended at all with a salary cap – its one of the key features of the plan.
For a second, if a club gets exemptions for superstars, then these players get even more well paid, putting even more pressure on club finances (quick example – give Canberra an extra $4m in cap room. They still wont spend it). Never forget a major reason Arko brought in a salary cap was to stop clubs going broke trying to buy a premiership.
But the biggest challenge ? Working with an IC board that hasnt quite figured out what it should be doing.
June 7th 2012 @ 8:41pm
MG Burbank said | June 7th 2012 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
Seems like fuzzy reading to me and also a weak grasp on the facts of the game’s history:
There was a 20+ team competition from 95-98. That would be the period during the Super League war, when the game plateaued- it took several years for the rule changes to manifest in the emergence of the next crop of young players. But even with the top players that did play in that era, 20 teams meant that there were not nearly enough to go round, as players and coaches (and anyone who knows anything about the game) will testify to. So yes, it was a debacle. And no, crowds for many teams slumped during this period.
By your logic, why not have 50 teams? More teams does not equal a higher standard- it means more reserve-grade standard players getting to play in the NRL. The ARLC knows this, which is why they’re being careful with expansion.
You have no evidence that the IC doesn’t know what it’s doing. It’s been in place a few months. I guarantee they’ll begin to create greater exemptions for elite players to stay where they are for the reasons I’ve suggested.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:53pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:53pm | Report comment
I reckon the best thing for rugby league in Australasia is to develop the Queensland Cup into a professional second-tier competition. The players wouldn’t be paid any where as much as those who are contracted to NRL teams, but they would earn enough to not have to hold down a day job. Not having to work during the day allows the players and clubs to train just as they would if they were in the NRL. The skill of the players would increase because they would be bigger, fitter, and better drilled.
A squad of 25 for each club, for maybe 16 or so teams, would not only increase the depth of talent in Australia, but give players from PNG, Tonga, Samoa, Solomon Islands and Cook Islands a chance to earn a living and narrow the gap between them and Australia.
PNG are bidding to have a team in Queensland Cup for the 2013 season. They plan on the team operating as a professional enterprise, with a squad of 25 professional athletes handpicked from PNG. Over time it would be nice to see a team based in Darwin enter the Queensland Cup. Another team from northern NSW would also be nice, as would one from New Zealand. A strong Queensland Cup competition could end up generating revenue for the sport.
June 8th 2012 @ 10:47am
Renegade said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
The fact the IC have decided to implement suggestions written by Phil Rothfield in the DT is a big enough reason for me to think they dont know what’s doing….If Gallop was reactive, then i’m not really sure what to call this mob.
June 7th 2012 @ 9:59am
turbodewd said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Has the game grown strongly? Average NRL crowds since 05 from http://www.austadiums.com
2005 17,346
2006 16,486
2007 16,580
2008 16,317
2009 17,086
2010 17,453
2011 17,234
2012 17,556
So Australia has grown but NRL crowds havent moved. Massive room for improvement here.
Im also concerned that Sydney NRL ratings for SOO are only a bit higher than Bris despite twice the pop!
June 7th 2012 @ 1:40pm
clipper said | June 7th 2012 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
Australias population has gone from 20544064 to 22926540 – almost a 10% increase between 2005 and 2012
NRL crowds in that period have only increased 1%
Sydney and Brisbane have probaly increased more, so a pretty poor effort.
June 8th 2012 @ 11:00am
Renegade said | June 8th 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
I’m not really sure that means rugby league has struggled – in fact a 1% increase is far better than a decrease which is what the Swans and waratahs crowds would show when comparing 2005 to 2012.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:07pm
JVGO said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:07pm | Report comment
In the Swans and Waratahs’ cases that decrease would be at least 30 and 50% respectively, but that would be fine with Clipper as it would mean that the fanbases would be getting ever more exclusive and elite and therefore even more socially superior. That’s a great outcome for the socially superior codes. Awesome improvement in the elitism stakes..
June 8th 2012 @ 9:23pm
JVGO said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:23pm | Report comment
The good news however is that these disappearing fans are obviously not going to the socially inferior code. That is some comfort. But where exactly are they going? Fancy french restaurants? Health Spas? Club Med? Fashion Parades? obscure pubs in Alexandria? Maybe it’s time to put on our red and white going out gear and find out.
June 7th 2012 @ 3:39pm
mushi said | June 7th 2012 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
Are crowds the target?
June 7th 2012 @ 4:59pm
turbodewd said | June 7th 2012 @ 4:59pm | Report comment
Absolutely. Theyre a source on income and establish credibility. If your sport is shown on TV in front of empty seats then that speaks volumes on whether or not the spectacle is worth watching. The boffins running the AFL and NFL now how important crowds are.
The NRL can easily lift its crowds with some simple measures:
SOO on dedicated weekends
Slightly shorter season (massive oversupply makes NRL games seem like background noise, like weather, theyre on all the time!)
Set schedule for season
Regional rivalries (Parra should play Cbury each other twice per year no matter what, same for StGeo/Wests/Souths)
Clever scheduling (Cowboys games at night, Raiders games during the day)
June 7th 2012 @ 9:58pm
Dean - Surry Hills said | June 7th 2012 @ 9:58pm | Report comment
Australia’s population may have grown – but it has also aged, and is continuing to do so.
The vast increase in population is through immigration, while the birth rate is close to zero.
Asians currently contribute to a large percentage of these new arrivals.
How would you market the NRL to these new Australians ?
June 7th 2012 @ 10:07am
Crosscoder said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:07am | Report comment
Good points turbodewd.There is definitely room for growth.
Factors also must weigh in :
Updating stadiums with more cover
The state of the economy affecting many,although according to Wayney Poo Swan we are bouncing along LOL.
Expansion into Pert/Brisbane/CQLd and CC
Cheaper deals for children.
And a fixed schedule for the year,so people can plan ahead,weddings,birthday parties,post Federal election celebrations.
But the most important factor,the next TV deal.
As the saying goes without the cash,you can’t dash.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:26am
turbodewd said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:26am | Report comment
I want to know how the NRL has lost touch with Sydney…I was amazed to see Bris SOO ratings are almost that of Sydney.
Something is seriously wrong if the home of RL is Sydney. I mean Australia is one of the world’s richest countries, low unemployment, and Sydneysiders are not short for coin at all – one of the world’s richest cities. So price must be a modest factor.
I think the NRL shoots itself in the foot at Origin time with the midweek stuff…it ruins weekend NRL crowds badly. SOO has its own gravity, if it moved to sunday or saturday night the people would follow. Its huge, it can move. Occasionally SOO doesnt even sell out in Sydney!
June 7th 2012 @ 11:23am
Australian Rules said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:23am | Report comment
It’s an interesting point.
I don’t think the game has necessarily stagnated in Sydney but the crowds and TV figures show that Queensland’s hunger for League is certainly greater than Sydney’s.
In terms of Origin, what we’ve seen is that when there is 1 game in Sydney, it’s very close to a sell out (about 80k). When there’s 2 games, it’s closer to the 65k mark. Queenslanders would claim they could sell out a 100k stadium for Origin 3 times over…but that’s an irrelevant remark.
Ultimately, I think Origin should be either on a stand alone wknd or after the finals. The first game should go to Melb, NZ, Perth etc…and games 2 and 3 rotated between NSW and QLD. As this year showed, the Melbourne game pulled a bigger crowd than Suncorp and the national ratings were the biggest ever.
June 7th 2012 @ 12:40pm
Mals said | June 7th 2012 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
Ratings in Sydney would be higher if NSW could win a series. 6 losing series in a row has to take it’s toll. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, people in Brisbane would be tuning out to avoid the heartache!
June 7th 2012 @ 1:05pm
The Barry said | June 7th 2012 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
“Sydneysiders are not short for coin at all” – mate factor in a mortgage for one of the most over-priced real estate markets in the world, increasing power bills, childcare costs – there are a lot of Sydneysiders that might have a decent paypacket but it gets chopped up pretty quick.
I have a 5 year old that supports the Bulldogs and is dying to go to a game. His awareness of footy has gone through the roof over the past 6 months. We’re coming up to Round 14 and the Dogs have played two day games in Sydney – as luck would have it I’ve been out of town for both. One of the games was over the Easter long weekend.
I can’t take a 5 year old to a 7.30 kick off game – he’s normally in bed at 7.30 ! I need more afternoon games.
That will change in a few years when he’s a bit older and his own weekend sport kicks in.
Kick off times are driven by TV ratings not attendance but there needs to be a balance.
June 7th 2012 @ 1:23pm
Australian Rules said | June 7th 2012 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Barry
You talk as though Sydney’s the only place in Australia where you can get a mortgage.
The cost of living in Perth is higher than Sydney, and Melb and Brissie are pretty much on par. In fact, EVERYWHERE in Australia is bloody exy to live – cost of living doesn’t explain why sporting crowds in the Harbour City are comparatively low to the rest of the country.
June 8th 2012 @ 10:40am
Crosscoder said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:40am | Report comment
The cost of housing in Sydney ,unless you are prepared to travel to the outer regions is prohibitive,more so than other cap cities in this country.
There are morrtgages ,and there are mortgages.
The cost of living may well be dearer in Perth,but the biggest outlay in Sydney is land and house.You would be lucky to get a basic block of land in the Shire foir under 600,000.That’s if you can find one
.
Have a look at the transport problems in Sydney,even the motoweays are now car parks.
As far as Tv ratings are concerned Parramatta which is one of the bigges ratings drawers have been playing like
schoolkids.St george another popular team are well below expectations.
There are a miriad of reasons for crowds and ratings in Sydney.
June 7th 2012 @ 2:11pm
turbodewd said | June 7th 2012 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
The Barry,
it seems NRL mgmt are keen to make the game anti-family. Youve got beer and gambling ads everywhere and the SOO doesnt even kick off until 8.15pm!
June 7th 2012 @ 2:25pm
super G said | June 7th 2012 @ 2:25pm | Report comment
Where do you live turbo? The people with coin in Sydney don’t follow League. It’s the lower-working class who are the true followers of the game and life’s not so rosy at that end.
June 7th 2012 @ 3:53pm
turbodewd said | June 7th 2012 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
(I live in Canberrrrrra)
Then the NRL should try to broaden its appeal. It could start by removing all beer and gambling sponsors. It should then get the players out and about in the community more and try to ensure the eloquent ones or likeable ones are in the media a lot. Benji Marshall is a pretty clean cut guy…doh…altho he did hit someone didnt he. Dammit!
June 7th 2012 @ 5:59pm
clipper said | June 7th 2012 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
Spot on Super G.
June 8th 2012 @ 10:46am
Crosscoder said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Based on misconceptions but implanted in the minds of others who have little affinity with the game.I have read and heard it all before and laugh with anticipation.
June 8th 2012 @ 12:29pm
clipper said | June 8th 2012 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
It’s not as though it’s a bad rap – it’s one of leagues strengths. This means that GWS will really struggle out west, as it is league heartland, whereas the Swans have a large following and there are many junior and senior AFL teams in the east and north. The less affluent areas will not swap codes or switch to Rugby or AFL like the other areas. If the west had lost a league team, they wouldn’t have switched to Rugby or AFL like the north shore did when the bears left. This is the reality of the situation – the west has a ‘fortress’ attitude and think there’s a war on to dislodge NRL as ‘their’ sport (aided by the media), whereas people in the east and north are more accepting of other sports.
June 9th 2012 @ 9:54am
Crosscoder said | June 9th 2012 @ 9:54am | Report comment
We have argued this point aimlessly before champ.The demographics of the code have changed remarkedy in the last decades.I have been following the code for yonks and I came from a ru background.
..
I actually agree people who are dyed in the wool fans of a code are not going to change.But I will say this,in my years in the workforce when the Nth Sydney Bears were out of hibernation and part of the game,the many fans I encountered were hardly the working class(whatever that means today) variety.
And should the Bears come back,rest assured i know of more than a handfull who will jump back on board the good ship rugby league.A couple of whom now follow the unfortunate Tahs.
The AFL decided that the west was ripe for them for expansion.They secured Folau to make further impact.Their expertise or profound investigative work should have told them so,instead they jumped in,and succeeded in diluting some of the Swans support.
Yet they are looking long term.that will happen woith rugby league.
The west have lost league teams the Magpies and the Balmain Tigers.If you believe mergers were helpful,then sorry tha’ts not what I have heard.Just disillusionment by some.
I believe you will find the west far more accepting of the round ball game,because of the high number of people coming from European background.’There are also affluent area in the west,there are also people battling day to day in the affluent suburbs.
And where does that leave people in the south Clipper the Shire and ST George both with strong rugby league presence and juniors ,yet huge soccer participation and reasonable ru and even AFL presence.
BTW South Sydney is also the East of sydney.And the likes of james Packer,Gyngell,Mcrath and Innes all roosters fans attended ru palying schools in the Eastern suburbs and are devoted rl fans,so it doeshappen not infrequently.
The crux of the matter is,regardless of the make up of the area,working from the grassroots in the school sis where you get the new kids on the block.That is what rugby league is doing in Melbourne as no doubt the AFL is doing in Sydney.
I am again under moderation,for what is a genuine debate on rugby league,revolving around the Gallop issue.Will the moderators provide me with a ghost writer,to fall into line, with their way of thinking.Embarrassing.
June 8th 2012 @ 12:08am
JVGO said | June 8th 2012 @ 12:08am | Report comment
This is not exactly true. Most of the top business people in Sydney are self made and many are associated with RL. Historically this is what Sydney is really about, (as opposed to the more insular old school tie world of Melbourne), the ability of anybody from any walk of life to make progress in business or society. The Packers have always associated with RL and the Roosters board are a prime example, as is John Grant himself.
RU is associated particularly with the private school ethos which traditionally dominated the professions (but not so much anymore), and more recently the finance sector (you need to remember that up until 25 years ago Melbourne dominated the finance industry so this has seen massive growth in Sydney in that period).. You only have to look at the mediocrity and incompetence plaguing RU in NSW to see a perfect analogue for the malaise affecting the finance sector in Sydney. These people have patently shown themselves incapable of building a business.
I guess it’s also what you call ‘coin’. Most people who want to associate a GPS background with social superiority or intellect or money and RU are kidding themselves and are middle class wannabes (employees) who don’t really have much more of anything than anyone else. Since they don’t really have anymore of these things they cling to RU as some sort of sign of superiority the way Clipper does.
In the end this is what underlies much of the code war, the contest of two world views, one egalitarian and dynamic and the other elitist and conservative. Historically Sydney’s egalitarian and dynamic society has triumphed and led the way over insular, elitist and conservative viewpoints associated with Melbourne and RU. In the end it will probably do so again, at least if we know what’s good for us.
June 8th 2012 @ 10:54am
Crosscoder said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:54am | Report comment
JVGO
Well said.
I used to hear that sort of garbage at high school,until I started following the game,and could not believe some of the people and their status in life, who had children playing the game and who followed the game.
It is the old private school nonsense ,I used to believe and which was bred into me.Boy did I soon wizen up to that crap.
Some of these ill informed people,do not appear to understand that the population is far far better educated than ever before ,and that comes from all walks of life.
They still base their impressions on the 60s and 70s,and are as outmoded as a MG TF.
June 8th 2012 @ 10:44am
Crosscoder said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Lower working class,what the!!You need to get out a bit more at games.Didn’t realise those at Manly,Cronuulla,Easts,St George had the soles off their shoes.
All people are affected by the current economic climate,regardless of status in life.LasI I heard we are a classless society,with plumbers earning more than lawyers.
June 8th 2012 @ 11:02am
Brewski said | June 8th 2012 @ 11:02am | Report comment
Working class people no longer have no soles on their shoes, today working class people only have one plasma, times have changed, IME RL is a working class game and is not as egalitarian as Australian football is across the demographics.
As such, the divide in Sydney, by football codes makes it the most class concious city in Austtralia, and in this country, out by itself.
If there is any city in Australia that has not rid itself of the yoke of British colonialism and class it is Sydney.
June 8th 2012 @ 11:14am
Crosscoder said | June 8th 2012 @ 11:14am | Report comment
Well Brewski,you need to get out a little more with Sydney teams.Class conscious when ru,rl people go to SOO.
A survey conducted about 4 years ago ,found rugby league had people of a a higher disposable income,except for ru at the extreme high income end,than other codes.
Times have indeed changed ,people are far better educated than ever.
Sydney is more diverse,more cosmpopolitan,hence the numbers of kids playing soccer.
Class conscious based on what.I mix with people from all walks of life,and have never felt out of my depth or had status thrown up in conversation.
It is fairly easy to be egalitarian in a state where one code is rammed down your throat every way you look,since you lobbed into the world.
North Korea can be classified as egalitarian,as every person from street sweeper to high govt offical follows the party line.An extreme example but an example nonetheless.
June 8th 2012 @ 11:35am
clipper said | June 8th 2012 @ 11:35am | Report comment
Brewski – an insightful observation – this is clearly evidenced by the strength of Rugby and AFL in the east, inner city and north shore (the more affluent areas) and the overwhelming strength of league in the western suburbs. This does not happen, as far as I can see, in Melbourne, where all areas are have a strong Aussie Rules following – although I would not stretch this to make judgement of the class divide across Australia, it certainly happens in the football codes in Sydney.
June 9th 2012 @ 10:26am
Crosscoder said | June 9th 2012 @ 10:26am | Report comment
The Shire is affluent hardly a bastion of AFL .
June 7th 2012 @ 4:38pm
jdubya said | June 7th 2012 @ 4:38pm | Report comment
The Swans got 13k last match and the Giants and Tahs are floundering.
The AFL and the A-League are about to learn just how apathetic the people of Sydney really are.
June 7th 2012 @ 4:49pm
turbodewd said | June 7th 2012 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
Sydneysiders will pack an event if its good enough.
The Waratahs are no-names, up themselves and have played poorly for years.
Domestic soccer isnt a huge drawcard
AFL in Syd isnt a huge drawcard.
But Sydneysiders sellout UFC events in hours.
June 7th 2012 @ 5:54pm
jdubya said | June 7th 2012 @ 5:54pm | Report comment
And we have sold out Origin, any city in the world will pack out an event if it’s big enough. Where it gets interesting is the grind of regular attendances which every professional team in Sydney has struggled to obtain apart from a rare few like the Bulldogs. Sydneysiders aren’t as incestuous as Melbournites, who go to the ground to watch Melbourne teams playing other Melbourne teams in Melbourne with other Melbourne people watching alongside them. That doesn’t interest Sydney as much as it does Melbourne hence why only the premier matches draw big crowds. (Melbourne is the obvious comparison here, not trying to have a dig).
Difference in culture is all. P.S the TV ratings are fine, what do you expect to happen when QLD have won 6 in a row, it would be slightly masochistic of Sydney to be tuning in in greater numbers than their QLD counterparts.
June 7th 2012 @ 11:01pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:01pm | Report comment
“Sydneysiders aren’t as incestuous as Melbournites, who go to the ground to watch Melbourne teams playing other Melbourne teams in Melbourne with other Melbourne people watching alongside them.”
So how come the highest attended NRL games in Sydney are the local derbies?
June 7th 2012 @ 6:50pm
Titus said | June 7th 2012 @ 6:50pm | Report comment
If Sydney wants to build a true sporting culture like Melbourne then they need to get behind the code that most people play, which is Association.
In Victoria most people play AFL, the game is more sophisticated than League and has the added bonus of being an Aussie game.
In NSW most people play Association but the game is run out of town and therefore most people in NSW have little interest in football codes at a domestic level as they are not catered for or follow foriegn leagues.
Invest in Football and NSW could have a better sporting culture than Victoria.
June 7th 2012 @ 11:02pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:02pm | Report comment
The only reason kids play soccer is because it’s safer than rugby league.
June 7th 2012 @ 11:08pm
Titus said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:08pm | Report comment
Yeah keep telling yourself that mate.
So why don’t all these kids go and watch the Rugby League? Oh thats right, because it’s heaps better to watch on TV…….and its hard to get to stadiums.
June 7th 2012 @ 11:30pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:30pm | Report comment
There seems to be more kids watching the NRL than the A-League.
June 8th 2012 @ 1:03pm
Rob C said | June 8th 2012 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
I think you need to check the soccer participation rates for Victoria mate as you are kinda contradicting yourself here…
Soccer is the number one participation sport in all codes Austrlia wide, which kind makes your point a moot one.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:34pm
Titus said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:34pm | Report comment
Dont think so RobC, in Victoria Association numbers are something like 50 000, AFL numbers would be well over 100 000.
June 7th 2012 @ 11:17pm
D Maaga said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:17pm | Report comment
if that is the case qgirl then kids touch rugby should be going off right now but its not.
June 7th 2012 @ 11:30pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | June 7th 2012 @ 11:30pm | Report comment
Touch football was considered a girly alternative to rugby league at the school I went to. I wouldn’t be surprised if kids still hold the same views. They don’t see touch football on TV, so it’s not something they can identify with. They know soccer is played by men and is on TV, so they take that up while they’re young because they can see themselves earning something positive from it. The most they can hope for while playing touch football is playing in a park with about 40 spectators when they grow up.
Don’t forget about the kids who are pushed into playing soccer by overprotective parents. A lot of them quit the game and turn to league, Aussie rules and union once they’re old enough to join a club without their parents’ permission.
June 8th 2012 @ 11:00am
Crosscoder said | June 8th 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Used to play soccer at primary school Titus.Nice and safe game,although the constant heading of the ball,may have done damage down the line to me,who knows.
The delights of watching ru then rl changed my approach to soccer.
Soccer is quite popular with the youngsters in the USA,but it is the NFL,NBA that attracts the interest.
Culture? I have seen aspects of culture in all the codes,that leave a lot to be desired.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:52pm
Titus said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:52pm | Report comment
Thats kind of my point CC’
I not denying that after a certain age soccer is socialised out of the kids, just as it is in the USA, kids just do what everyone else does, its natural, people want to fit in, not be called a wog or a sissy.
But, the way you become absolutely fanatical about a game is by playing it for the love, living it, breathing it…….in Victoria they kick the sherrin around……in NSW we play a game of soccer…..you never go to a park and see people packing down a scrum and playing a game of league, it just isn’t fun…it’s fun to watch people on telly hurting themselves but not much fun to play.
League is a good TV product but it will never have the same level of life encompassing passion as AFL or Football.
June 9th 2012 @ 10:20am
Crosscoder said | June 9th 2012 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Sorry Titus I have seen enough passion in rugby league to last a lifetime,from being at the ground,listening to talkback radio,from watching the Kangaroos in the UK .To suggest that those who watch it religiously are less than passionate than the other codes mentioned,is far from the reality ,from my experience.
No you can go to a park at times and watch kids throwing a Steeden around playing touch,or on the beaches on the east Coast doing likewise.Scrums in a park??? You jest.
What is touch or tag?I don’t know what parks you visit,but they must be limited.
I have seen many times gourps of kids ,seemingly from a Lebanese background playing rl on the beach at Nth Cronulla .You must have spent little time in NSW and Qld parks and beaches,is all I can say.
Funny at a kids soccer game recently at Lilli Pilli,I saw a youngster booting around his Sharks rl ball,near the sideline.is that sacrilege?
From my experience as a kid,I was guided to soccer because it was supposedly safer,not because of love but parental guidance.There are kids that go to soccer because they love the game,just as there are kids who go to junior rugby league because they love the game.
One of my close mate’s young fella,played soccer last year,but switched to junior under 9 rl this year.Because he hates it? No because he likes to run with the ball and tackle.
Yes it was real fun when I was kicked in the you know where ,playing soccer as a kid.There are broken legs in soccer at times,no one takes delight in injuries.
That is utter BS.People do not want to see people hurt themselves playing any sport,let alone rl.Yes it is a contact sport ,like ru and AFL..
People like the speed and physical contact,of those who watch those sports.There are even EPL players who have come out and say they watch rugby league.
Soccer is a great sport,no question but I prefer rugby league,a convert.
I was always taught,never say never.
June 7th 2012 @ 10:29am
Meesta Cool said | June 7th 2012 @ 10:29am | Report comment
I am continually reading articles daily that are highlighting the many problems that Rugby League faces, I am also seeing many comments on what a great job D Gallop has done in his ten years. How can we credit his performance if he is leaving with so many items that need to be sorted?
Thanks for the three good things that you achieved in 10 yrs.. bye bye!
June 7th 2012 @ 4:24pm
mushi said | June 7th 2012 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
Cap exemptions. This just shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what the cap is designed to achieve much in the same way that 2+6 = 2,356 shows a fundamental misunderstanding of arithmetic.
The cap is there to cap player salaries and ensure that we don’t get into a competitive spiral where winner takes all.
Also the “forces teams to develop players”.
First teams already develop players. Why? Because juniors are the highest value opportunities for your team.
Cost vs production, typically needing to over bid to secure players and ability avoid open market negotiations being three reasons (there are more but people seem to struggle with just three so I’ll keep it there)
Even throwing that out the window how about the obvious one. If developing players weren’t to the benefit of the club why would they do it?
To argue you’re position you must assume that every club is either completely ignorant of actively engages in an activity that is against their best interests? Essentially saying every single club is wildly irrational or outright stupid. If that is the case then no CEO is going to help.
Stadiums. Well for starters this relies on the assumption that crowd figures are the life blood of the NRL’s success. We have no evidence of this but hey if we don’t say we believe a little football fairy dies so I believe you.
So accepting that this is the great challenge to the NRL’s future the entire analysis relies on another assumption that the only hurdle to crowd figures is stadium quality.
What drives this? The only logic I can see is because AFL fans show up to their new stadiums but NRL ones don’t? Well the Author also expressly acknowledges that the two sporting groups are different by suggesting that the Sydney NRL fans will never travel to central venues.
So why how can we use the AFL as a benchmark when we acknowledge the fan bases are fundamentally different?
Even if they do show up stadiums are general very poor investments so now we need to ask the general public to foot the bill in a time of increasing fiscal prudence? Why not just call the stadium wizard I’m sure he could whip one up.
Your grand solution to rationalisation doesn’t make sense alongside the stadium fairy solution. Say we get these state of the art palaces of sports fandom that we flock to, if fans won’t travel won’t the rationalised teams fans not travel or are these special different fans?
If they aren’t magical fans, and attendance at the game is crucial, haven’t you just cut out large swathes of the biggest market in Australia?
I think there are some credible arguments for rationalisation (with credible rebuttal) but this isn’t one of them.
June 7th 2012 @ 4:49pm
The Bush said | June 7th 2012 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
How come the AFL can expand to eighteen (18) teams, with larger squads and not suffer a diluting of the talent (though of course the argument is that they have), but the NRL can’t? Squads are smaller, more people live in the “heartlands” and you can recruit overseas, something AFL can only do half-hazardly.
Or is your argument that you don’t want the diluting that has taken place in the AFL?
I don’t think the NRL’s problem is supporting two (2) teams for well over a decade as they establish themselves. I’ve basically come round to the theory that until the coffers are loaded (well into the next TV deal, perhaps the end of it), they shouldn’t admit teams that can’t stand on their own two (2) legs. Therefore Central Coast is a must (if it “must” expand at all).
Some of the decision making at the top is also bizarre. Why would you send out two (2) refs at Origin without experience at that level, surely you’d put one out with an experienced ref and introduce them to it that way?
June 7th 2012 @ 4:55pm
turbodewd said | June 7th 2012 @ 4:55pm | Report comment
Sorry mate, the central coast is another NSW team. It wont get up this century, you can bet on it. NSW/ACT already has 11 teams of a 16 team comp…its Qld or WA or NZ that will get the expansion teams. And the central coast is not big…nor very far from Manly or Newcastle. You could barely call it expansion. Indeed as the crow flies Gosford is closer to Luna Park than Penrith!
June 7th 2012 @ 6:00pm
jdubya said | June 7th 2012 @ 6:00pm | Report comment
The AFL have 3 or 4 matches a round that are uncontested, with the occasional outlier of course. I’m not sure I want that to happen to Rugby League.
June 7th 2012 @ 6:01pm
Ian Whitchurch said | June 7th 2012 @ 6:01pm | Report comment
Yes. Matches like West Coast playing Brisbane, and Melbourne playing Essendon.
June 7th 2012 @ 6:06pm
jdubya said | June 7th 2012 @ 6:06pm | Report comment
“the occasional outlier.”
how often has that kind of upset happened in the last few years?
I regularly look at the AFL betting lines and there always 2 or 3 games with a favourite paying at 1.08 or something ridiculous. Not what I want to see happen in the NRL.
June 8th 2012 @ 11:04am
Crosscoder said | June 8th 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
And GWS and Suns,as competitive as well.”they were in the game until the first half” .Forgetting of course the fial thrashing.The spin goes on.
A thrashing is a thrashing,the sugar coating is mind boggling.
It like saying the Sharks won the second half scoring 6 points,but were beaten 40-6.But they were competitive in the 2nd half.
June 7th 2012 @ 5:15pm
bbt said | June 7th 2012 @ 5:15pm | Report comment
The lack of certainty re scheduling hurts Melbourne Storm. The AFL schedule is set at the beginning of the year and people just about set the winter period activities by it. The general public here are really confused as to why they don’t know when Storm are playing in advance.
June 7th 2012 @ 6:28pm
Ian Whitchurch said | June 7th 2012 @ 6:28pm | Report comment
Bbt,
It hurts all the interstate sides – its very hard to arrange leave, or cheap tickets, for travel when you dont know the game well in advance.
June 8th 2012 @ 11:11am
rl said | June 8th 2012 @ 11:11am | Report comment
MG, I do agree with your general thrust about it being time for fresh ideas. But…
I think you don’t give enough credit to Gallop – when he took the reins, the game’s finances were in a precarious state. His even if somewhat autocratic style did end up grating on people, but he was the right man for the time (it probably grated on the clubs to be nagged about their finances, but they needed it. Maybe the Titan’s woes were a sign of Gallop taking his eye off the ball, but it certainly is a very strong warning about what can and has happened when the game isn’t run responsibly).
Anyway, his brief was generally along the lines of “get the business back in the black, and off the front pages, or we won’t have a business”. In that vein, he was pretty successful – hard to be seen to be innovative and proactive when you’re being fiscally prudent and a bit of a bore. Although some might argue the way he handled some of more notorious episodes during his tenure, you’d have to think he sent a generally consistent and strong message on important issues such as respect for women. I think it’s a reflection of where the game is at now that we have the luxury of being able to look forward and think about massive TV deals and expansion of the game. Gallop has to at least get some of the credit for that.
Slightly concerning to me is Hartigan’s comments last night re the selection process for the IC. I acknowledge that his comments are possibly driven from the perspective of someone who probably didn’t get what he wanted, but it seems that rather than getting the absolute cream of the crop, we have a commission made up of people that the various parties disliked the least, instead of liking the most. Might be potentially frustrating to a fearless innovative CEO if he is answering to a commission of 2nd choice moderates? But then again it might be the “check” to prevent the CEO reaching too far. I’m still undecided.
June 10th 2012 @ 9:07pm
Matt R said | June 10th 2012 @ 9:07pm | Report comment
I have enjoyed reading the intelligent banter through the posts and replies however I am frustrated at the lack of understanding on many of the issues being discussed. I will attempt to address a couple now.
Should clubs be provided with salary cap incentives or dispensations for junior development?
Yes they should but no they cannot. For example if a club were provided with a 50% discount on the value of a players contract, if they have been at the club since the age of 16 (and for maybe two years from NRL debut) this effectively allows the club additional cash to spend on their playing roster – however with only one club (Broncos) turning a profit, such introduction would be financially irresponsible as most clubs would attempt to spend the extra dollars to strengthen their roster but to their financial detriment – follow ? Furthermore and a less objective argument is such an allowance potentially assists those clubs with a naturally larger junior base – Broncos, Knights, Penrith but may disadvantage clubs such as the Roosters and Sharks- fair – I think not
A Salary Cap option – this notion requires much stronger consideration than when first pitched to Clubs and NRL management a few years ago.
Players in the NRL are the product and generate the cash – there are other important by-products but I will keep simple.
The Top 25 players in each Club comprise the Salary Cap – give or take with current allowances $4.3m
Clubs can spend as much as they wish on players outside the Top 25 and over the age of 20 so long as the highest paid 25 players salaries do not exceed the cap. Easy so far.
Clubs spend between $600k and $1.1m on their NYC (Under 20) roster – through salaries (some are paid so well they occupy some Club’s Top 25 spots!) incentives, education subsidies and living away from home allowances – far too much in my view for potential providers of the future NRL product – less than 5% will graduate to the NRL! Now think about this – if payments were limited to NYC Players a reallocation of income could occur to the actual product providers and generators of the big cash – the NRL Players- possibly in excess of $500k quite easily per Club. NYC Players possibly could be limited to maximum $20-$30k contracts (only the better players would command these numbers) until they play x amount of NRL games to establish themselves – like a rookie contract (remember they must already be working or studying). Some issues around a free market but can be overcome. Now, as players consider which Clubs to play for in the NYC, the decision comes down to opportunity, coaching, development, education support – all factors other than cash! NRL clubs will be competing for young players on a more level playing field and non-cash basis! Freed up cash is reallocated to the big guys!
Player Managers may not like but tough……
Anyway enough for now …….
Ps: 20 teams only existed for 95,96 & 97 not 98 as previously mentioned …. Just to clear that up !