Deans risks career banking on seven Waratahs
By David Lord, 8 Jun 2012 David Lord is a Roar Expert
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- robbie deans, Rugby Union, Super Rugby, Wales rugby, wallabies, Waratahs
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“It’s certainly the best team, in our opinion, for this Test match”. That was Wallaby coach Robbie Deans’ summation at the naming of the 22 for tomorrow at Suncorp in the first of three Tests against Six Nations Grand Slammers, Wales.
Deans must reckon he can get more out of the woeful Waratahs than their coach Michael Foley.
That’s the only possible explanation why seven Waratahs – the entire frontrow of Benn Robinson, Tatafu Polota-Nau, and Sekope Kepu, with No 8 Wycliff Palu, and backs Berrick Barnes, Rob Horne, and Adam Ashley-Cooper – have been selected in the starting lineup.
Yet the Australian Conference Super Rugby leading Brumbies have just one representative – inside-centre Pat McCabe.
Slightly better for the Reds, just a point behind on the Conference table, who have four – Scott Higginbotham, Rob Simmons, Will Genia, and Digby Ioane.
But between the two top Australian teams, there will be five Wallabies at the kick off tomorrow, still two short of the confidence shot Waratahs.
Go figure.
Not one of the seven Waratahs have put together even two decent individual performances back-to-back all season. But every one of them has been deeply involved in the franchise’s worst tournament in Super Rugby history.
Losing 10 games in a season for the first time, six games on the trot for the first time, and three losses in succession for the first time at Allianz Stadium, normally their fortress, are unwanted records of the worst kind.
Woeful alright.
The three Waratah backs can count themselves very fortunate there’s a litany of injured.
The list grew yesterday when winger Joe Tomane did an ankle at training to join Kurtley Beale, James O’Connor, Christian Lealiifano, Lachie Turner, and Ben Tapuai on the sideline, with Quade Cooper and Drew Mitchell back in action, but still game-time shy.
That translates to not one of the three Waratahs in the starting line-up if everyone was fit.
The frontrow could so easily have been overlooked for a combination of James Slipper, Stephen Moore, Ben Alexander, and Dan Palmer who debuted against Scotland – Palu by Higginbotham, the form Australian forward, who has been shifted to blind side flanker to make way for the big Waratah who is injury prone and rarely sees out the full 80 minutes.
Ben Mowen should also be in the No 8 mix.
So it’s a brave gamble by Deans to trust seven Waratahs when their individual form suggests none are good enough at the moment to do battle with a formidable foe, unbeaten in Europe.
Every Wallaby supporter will have fingers crossed Deans can do the seemingly impossible by raising his Waratah contingent performance bar by wearing gold, instead of blue.
If that’s the case, and the underdog Wallabies get up, it will be one of Robbie Deans’ finest hours.
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June 8th 2012 @ 4:01am
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2012 @ 4:01am | Report comment
It would be a very fine effort by Deans to win after the ARU has done its best to cripple its own team and undermine its own coach with this outrageous scheduling. The Tomane injury is surely because he was training the day he should have been recuperating because of the schedule, while many players will be exhausted on saturday after playing on tuesday.
If Deans wins of course, he won’t win an inch of credit from the anti-a-New Zealander-coaching-Australia Wallaby supporters.
The front row have the advantage of being a unit in Super rugby, coordination which might be crucial against the tremendous Welsh scrummaging front row. In fact preventing the Welsh from gaining scrum dominance is a highly important.
The back row is an area of strength, as Palu, Higginbotham and Pocock provide a variety of qualities which will be necessary to stop the Welsh in a strong zone themselves.
The second row is the weak point, as it lacks bulk despite the high workrate of its players. On the other hand, it will surely shut down the Welsh in another strong zone, the lineout.
So in the scrum and lineout the Welsh could well be nullified.
AAC and Horne are not great, but then with Beale, JOC and Tomane injured few are much better.
In fact the list of injured backs is now becoming legendary: Cooper, Beale, JOC, Tomane, Leliifano, Turner, Mitchell, Tapuai. Poor Robbie Deans.
I would say now the pack is strong and backs weak and the latter will need to perform well to allow the Wallabies to win.
June 8th 2012 @ 4:59am
David Lord said | June 8th 2012 @ 4:59am | Report comment
KPM, and the boyos only let in three tries throughout the entire Six-Nations.Love your comment about nullifying the Welsh lineout, but only if TPN can feed it in the same suburb.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:27am
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:27am | Report comment
David when Moore comes on it can go to yet another part of town.
Australia are often lambasted for weak set-pieces, but it looks as good as it has for a while in both scrum and lineout.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:55am
mania said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:55am | Report comment
aus’ weakness is in the tight 5. front row, only kepu deserves to be there. TPN is lazy and spasmodic and is an impact player. moore should start. robinson tellytubby well he folds faster than super-origami-man.
cant believe AAC is being moved again. its hard for him to shine when he hasnt been allowed to make any position his own. deans is ruining his career.
June 8th 2012 @ 7:06am
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2012 @ 7:06am | Report comment
mania did you notice Moore just played on tuesday? Also TPN is the stronger scrummager and the Welsh front row is probably the best scrummaging front row in the world? Also, as the Waratahs front row are a unit they are best prepared to face such a Welsh front row rather than untried combinations?
Deans is not ruining AAC’s career. He hasn’t been any good in attack for any team for two years now. If anything Deans has been exceptionally generous to AAC these past two seasons.
June 8th 2012 @ 7:14am
mania said | June 8th 2012 @ 7:14am | Report comment
tru bout moore playing tuesday, still moore is a better palyer than TPN.
AAC will never reach his potential as long aas deans keeps moving him around. harsh of u KPM AAC’s done everything thats been asked of him and because of this his careers suffered.
like PDV and the bulls ruined habana’s career so to is what deans is doing to AAC.
June 8th 2012 @ 7:19am
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2012 @ 7:19am | Report comment
mania AAC has not been a decent attacking player for two years, not for the Brumbies, Waratahs or Wallabies. He has clearly lost his ability to break open defences. Players decline and AAC is one of them. There’s nothing controversial about this, it’s completely obvious to anyone who has watched him for the past five years that in 2010 his game began to fail and he could no longer make breaks or do much in attack. nothing to do with Deans, everything to do with AAC.
June 8th 2012 @ 7:30am
mania said | June 8th 2012 @ 7:30am | Report comment
kpm – AAC is a smart player so will play much longer than the brutes. given a chance i reckon AAC still has what it takes. if he stays in fullback for the rest of the season then he’ll start producing hi preformances again. but alas as soon as beale comes back AAC will be moved again
June 8th 2012 @ 7:39am
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2012 @ 7:39am | Report comment
mania can you honestly say you have seen AAC making an attacking impact over the past two years in the vast mass of games he has played?
June 8th 2012 @ 7:45am
mania said | June 8th 2012 @ 7:45am | Report comment
KPM – what i’ve seen is a player doing everything he can do for his team. AAC is a soldier and does what is asked.
I’ll ask u this KPM has AAC ever shirked his responsibilty? AAC is a player every coach would love to have.
June 8th 2012 @ 7:51am
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2012 @ 7:51am | Report comment
That means no then. I didn’t ask what he did for the team and how he took responsibility. He is very committed and reliable but no longer good enough in attack for international rugby.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:28am
Justin2 said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:28am | Report comment
KPM – Test matches are about more than attack, You are so focused on this but defence wins Tests and AAC has been very good in this area, particularly on the wing where he should have been put instead of the horrible defensive player Vuna.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:37am
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Justin normally yes, but with Beale, Cooper, JOC and Tomane out the crucial attacking force that won matches over the last years is gone and someone has to try and make it up which is why I think Vuna has been selected despite his defensive problems. Vuna, Ioane and Barnes are the only really effective attacking players in the backline.
June 8th 2012 @ 10:20am
Red Kev said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Joseph Tomane:
Test Rugby Debut: 05/06/2012 (that’s three days ago)
Test Rugby Matches: 1
Test Rugby Wins: 0
Test Rugby Tries: 0
He’s a “crucial attacking force”!
June 8th 2012 @ 4:21pm
Moreton Bait said | June 8th 2012 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
Check this from 42 seconds. Believe this is within the past 2 years
June 8th 2012 @ 6:24pm
rugger bugger said | June 8th 2012 @ 6:24pm | Report comment
of course AAC’s man of the match performance against the french 18months ago was actually a lot longer ago. this clip doesn’t do it justice but this is what Deans brings if the players excecute his coaching!
June 8th 2012 @ 6:41pm
werewolf said | June 8th 2012 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
umm grow a brain!
June 8th 2012 @ 9:42pm
Red Kev said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:42pm | Report comment
Why do we have an infestation of you tube clips?
June 8th 2012 @ 10:31am
Jutsie said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:31am | Report comment
Think you guys are taking KPM way too literally, I think he means tomane is the same style of player that provides us with the crucial attacking force (to borrow his term) that has given us an advantage in previous years. Not that tomane himself has been apart of this attack.
I get his point and I do see alot of promise in tomane but its hard to judge whether he will have the same impact as digby/mitchell/JOC just yet.
June 8th 2012 @ 10:44am
Red Kev said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:44am | Report comment
And I think that anyone who posts that Tomane is part of “the heart and soul” of the Wallaby backline deserves all the ridicule I can muster.
As Brett posted in another thread, if kpm can be “coached” to post without wild generalisations and exaggerations the discussion on these threads would be improved. I am sure most of the rest of us are also guilty of this, but kpm on the Tomane issue has become cringe-worthy.
June 8th 2012 @ 10:50am
Jutsie said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Lol, RK I think I missed the “heart and soul” comment was it on this article or another?
Yeah KPM likes to exaggerate but I dont mind it, it gives me a good laugh and once in a while he also raises some good points .
June 8th 2012 @ 10:58am
Red Kev said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:58am | Report comment
Yeah this one:
http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/06/07/tomane-injured-doubt-wallabies/
I have a go back (as above) because I think it’s funny. If I step over the mark I trust the subsequent posters or the Roar Mods to let me know.
June 8th 2012 @ 11:09am
Jutsie said | June 8th 2012 @ 11:09am | Report comment
Lol thats a KPM classic.
June 8th 2012 @ 6:31pm
bemnnalong said | June 8th 2012 @ 6:31pm | Report comment
Thank god you got in number one KPM.
A bit of sanity into a pathetic failure to comprehend the impossible task given to Deans by O’N\
eil
That front row has been incredibly strong in the scrums and TPN is not far behind Moore in lineout throws and cannot be considered a risk in either attack or defense (unless his kamikaze tackles offend you!)
The backline is compromised but that was inevitable too
June 8th 2012 @ 10:44am
Morgan said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Surely national selection should be based on performances at the immediately lower level of provincial rugby – Super 15. I’m not saying pick a team solely on recent form, consistency over a longer period is important in test match rugby selections. What’s the point of the Brumbies being top of the conference if they can’t get players into the gold jersey. For christ’s sake, their captain can’t even get into the training squad! If I were coaching the coach – Deans, he would have been better off going with the Brumbies and Reds, then throwing in a few quality Rebels, Force and Waratahs players who are standouts in their positions, rather than this approach for tomorrow. After all, the team has no preparation time, the ARU has made it clear they don’t care about player welfare, so Deans should have taken the more rational, defend-able approach. If we lost then, at least he could say “hey guys, I picked the best players Australia has currently….”. Right now, he is making a devisive decision that may cost him and Australia dearly.
June 8th 2012 @ 10:53am
Hansie said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:53am | Report comment
I’m not against a New Zealander coaching Australia; I’m against a bloke with a 55% win ratio (after 4+ years) coaching Australia.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:34pm
murph73 said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:34pm | Report comment
“So in the scrum and lineout the Welsh could well be nullified.”
Are you serious? We don’t have a reserve lock! Palu has barely played more than 65 mins in any Super Rugby match this season. So when he plods off after 65 mins we are completely reliant on Simmons and Sharpe playing 100% for the full 80. And what happens in Simmons or Sharpe go down at eny point? We’re going to have Dennis or Higginbotham in at lock at which point the scrum will be in reverse gear permanently.
This is the sort of nonsense that absolutely does my head in about Deans. There is no sensible contingency in his selections.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:47pm
wallaby fan said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:47pm | Report comment
Murph Palu has been playing 70 and 80min stints of late. Watch some rugby that involves a team other than your reds before commenting.
I agree going in without a lock on the bench is risky. This proves my point that we are in the a real low in terms of locks in this country. so I see where Deans is coming from. Statistically it is the breakdown not the set piece that counts for the most and that is becoming more and more evident each year so expect to see Dennis, Pocock, Hooper and Palu all on at once to nullify the welsh backrow in the last 20min.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:59pm
Red Kev said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
Palu has played one 80 minute stint in the last two years – and that is at a much slower pace Super Rugby match than the Welsh will play.
No locks on the bench doesn’t prove your point at all. The locks in this country are fine, Deans just can’t pick a team to save his life. If anything it proves Murph’s point.
June 9th 2012 @ 4:59am
wallaby fan said | June 9th 2012 @ 4:59am | Report comment
When Sharpe and Vickerman retire not one of our current locks would make any other major playing nations squads let alone starting xv.
June 9th 2012 @ 5:45pm
murph said | June 9th 2012 @ 5:45pm | Report comment
Yeah, Horwill is just rubbish….
June 8th 2012 @ 4:09am
bluerose said | June 8th 2012 @ 4:09am | Report comment
a frontrow of Slipper/Moore/Alexander would be pushed around like a sack of potatoes,
June 8th 2012 @ 10:45am
Big Steve said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:45am | Report comment
Agreed bluerose. The waratahs players may not be in any form but Kepu and Robinson are miles ahead of Alexander. A prop that cant scrum is like a halfback who cant pass.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:01am
Ben S said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:01am | Report comment
The Wallabies aren’t underdogs. They’re actually favourites.
June 8th 2012 @ 8:45am
Jutsie said | June 8th 2012 @ 8:45am | Report comment
I don’t know ben s, the bookies may say we’re favourites but I havent been this nervous about a match against a NH team since the WC match against the irish. Im confident that the forward pack selected can match it but the reserve forwards aren’t ideal, and the back line is not inspiring at all.
June 8th 2012 @ 8:55am
Ben S said | June 8th 2012 @ 8:55am | Report comment
I think this Wales side has some tremendous players, but is very poorly coached. I just can’t see them winning. I hope they do, but I wasn’t impressed with the Australian WC side which beat Wales in the 3rd place play-off pretty convincingly. I know those sorts of games are rarely barometers of sides, but Wales still has this mental block re: the SH.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:25am
Jutsie said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
Many roar’ers would argue that the wallabies are poorly coached too (Im in the pro-deans camp but getting perilously close to jumping ship).
And regards to the 3rd place play off, firstly like you say the game was meaningless and secondly that backline did not included cooper vuna and rob horne.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:35am
Ben S said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:35am | Report comment
True, but I just think Wales are overrated. The 6N was very poor: France were diabolical, England were rebuilding, Ireland were typically inconsistent and Scotland were error prone. I don’t think that Grand Slam should automatically make the Welsh serious contenders. They do have some awesome players, but their attack was limited during the 6N, as it has been for a few seasons under Howley, and you have a key player like Adam Jones complaining about fatigue.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:46am
Jutsie said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Yeah I get your point, I didnt get to watch all the 6 nations games but I did see the wales v france decider and it was not a good performance by the french at all.
Do you think that england can knock the Boks off? I think they are as good a chance as the welsh to win one for the NH.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:56am
Ben S said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Wales didn’t really click during the 6N.
I can’t see England beating SA. I think the England pack is too physically callow – our locks are light, and the absence of Croft means we will be losing a potential advantage in the restarts, lineouts and ability to put pressure on SA’s debut locks and back row. I also think the absence of Corbisiero will weaken the scrum, which could have been an advantage to us, and I think the backline has been poorly selected. I do think some of the Bulls and Sharks players had one mind on this game last weekend as it is a huge fixture for Meyer.
hat said, who knows? Owen Farrell is limited in terms of creativity but he is a very good kicker and an excellent defender. If we don’t concede in the first 30 minutes like the Lions did in the 1st Test of 2009 I think we have a good chance of an upset. Equally, however, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the England pack blown away and the Boks to win comfortable.
June 8th 2012 @ 1:31pm
Wales15 said | June 8th 2012 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
And Wales weren’t rebuilding?. Stop making excuses for England. Wales were in the same situation using new young players, like England. They’re just better. England had thrown everything they had at Wales. Wales didn’t even get out of 2nd gear and still won on England’s own patch. And you say they’re overrated. Let me put in another scenario. They travelled to dublin with lot’s of injuries to their first team, with some starting still partially injured. Even with men sin binned, and with many second stringers (then) Wales still triumphed.
Back to the rebuilding thing; weren’t half the poms over 30 in your team anyway? That’s hardly rebuilding.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:37pm
Ben S said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:37pm | Report comment
What do Wales need to rebuild? They only player they have lost post-WC is Shane Williams. What were they rebuilding?
I see… Well, for the record, I’m not overly impressed with what Lancaster is doing, but his coaching panel figured Wales out pretty easily during the 6N. Priestland was utterly nullified and were it not for a moment of Scott Williams brilliance then you’d be looking at yet more of the same erratic and one-dimensional performances that we’ve seen over the past few seasons. Johnson’s England easily had the measure of Wales, so let’s get some perspective.
Anyhow, this is not about England – so don’t change the tangent. Wales have been tactically obvious for seasons now. That’s why they’ve finished 4th in previous 6Ns and been rolled by SH sides for so long.
Half the poms? I have no idea what you’re talking about.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:21am
David Lord said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:21am | Report comment
True Ben S, but only because of the world rankings, Wallabies 2, Wales 5. But this is just a shadow of the real Wallaby side, which makes them underdogs in my book.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:31am
Ben S said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:31am | Report comment
Not just because of world rankings. I’m sure the bookmakers take myriad factors into consideration: Wales weren’t actually that impressive during the 6N; Wales have a poor recent record against Australia; Wales are missing Jamie Roberts and he is pretty much their focal point; Warren Gatland isn’t in charge, and Rob Howley has failed to really develop the Welsh backline; Australia are at home. It’s not a shadow of the Wallaby side either.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:40am
Jarmen said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Agree with all your points here Ben S
Interesting however the injury excuse comes out again.
Australia is fielding the strongest team it possibly can under the circumstances as is Wales.
Do you think NZ or SA would be afforded the right to use the injury card should they go down to Ireland and England respectively?
June 8th 2012 @ 9:49am
Jutsie said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
No one is using excuses we are just saying our backline isn’t at its best due to injury, that is a fact not an excuse.
If we lose It means we don’t have depth like the Boks or NZ which is a fault of our own making.
June 8th 2012 @ 11:56am
Jarmen said | June 8th 2012 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Sounds like pre empting the loss with possible excuses to me.
As for Lords comment this is a Shadow of the “Real” Wallabies side that is a weak statement.
The team you have is the best that you can put out there it is the strongest possible Wallabies squad available no ifs buts or maybes.
it is the Real Australian team for the here and now!
Do you see the AB’s trotting out the its only a Shadow ABs squad its not our “Real” Team?
No they’re not and they have Mealamu, Kaino, Toeava, Boric, Jane and Kahui all out injured
June 8th 2012 @ 12:15pm
Jutsie said | June 8th 2012 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
Don’t agree with lord’s statement, every team put on the park is the real wallabies, but regarding aussie supporters’ pessimism for the result tomorrow due to injuries, you can call it an excuse if you want, I call it being rational.
June 8th 2012 @ 1:10pm
Justin2 said | June 8th 2012 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
Havent we moved on from this he said she said stuff?
June 8th 2012 @ 12:55pm
Kuruki said | June 8th 2012 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
I think the TAb should have the odds dead even. IMO Wales is ahead as a squad but the home-ground advantage brings Australia back to level pegging. The first test is going to be a cracker.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:41am
rl said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
David, we are also underdogs because of the limited preparation. Like Ireland at the RWC, Scotland really targetted that game as a must-win. We did not. Wales have had a good build up too. Very ominous.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:22am
wallaby fan said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:22am | Report comment
I think we are the only country hell bent on crapping on about how many players come from which domestic team. having lived in the UK for 10 years i have not heard one comment on how many players are picked in the england team from which club for instance. It is because it doesn’t matter.
You pick your best players available in each position. End of discussion.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:32am
David Lord said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:32am | Report comment
Not so WF, England teams are picked on form, not team whims. So are all other countries.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:50am
wallaby fan said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:50am | Report comment
The best front row in australia is Robinson, Moore(who is probably recovering from a tuesday match that should not have been played) and Kepu.
The best no 8 in australia is Palu.
the best 10 available due to injuries at this time is Barnes.
And the most in form no 13 is Rob Horne. (He was terribly out of form a month ago but has been in excellent form of lateof late)
And the best option at 15 is AAC with Beale injured.
As for the England team, only 3 players from the grand final winning Quins have been selected. There will be not one detrimental comment because they understand it is more important to pick the best side than to entertain small minded parochial club agendas.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:12am
Harry said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:12am | Report comment
Actually the 13 who has been in the best form of any of them in Andrew Smith of the Brumbies. Clearly outplayed Horne the last time the two teams met. I would have him in there ahead of Horne for sure, and possibly A. Faingaa.
A fit and motivated Palu is indeed Australia’s best number 8. However we haven’t seen that version for two years and you are delusional if you think we have in his last few games for the Tahs.
June 8th 2012 @ 10:36am
Morgan said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Agree Harry. Smith and Inman have both outplayed Horne. But the mere mention of them being given a go at 13 would invoke wild criticism. Fancy giving another test cap to Horne after he has done absolutely nothing in two years of rugby, except make himself known to the judiciary for silly tip-tackles.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:20pm
wallaby fan said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:20pm | Report comment
Palu is carrying on average 75+ metres per 80min. Which is twice as much as other aussie 8′s and 6′s. And he is topping the ruck/maul and number of tackles stats per 80min of all the current 8′s and 6′s. these are facts!
What games have you been watching this year?
Horne’s been scoring tries, smashing people in defence these past few weeks. He played himself back into form so full credit to him.
I will give you a tip. A Smith will NEVER play test rugby and A Faingaa will not get picked next year. both these players will not be in their own starting xv at super rugby next year with Kuridrani and Sautia taking their positions.
June 8th 2012 @ 11:21am
B-Rock said | June 8th 2012 @ 11:21am | Report comment
Thank you wallaby fan for a moment of sanity in all this craziness.
I am a Rob Horne fan but I still see his selection as the most contentious of the Tahs. There are no other 13s who are fit and an obvious choice ahead of him however – its hardly a shocking decision.
TPN is superior to Moore in the srum and around the park but far too inconsistent at line out time. This is somewhat borderline – I would prefer TPN off the bench for the final 20-30mins as an impact player who will also shore up the scrum but could be convinced either way here.
Surely no one can argue with Kepu, Robbo, and Palu – I would love to hear that argument
AAC is similar to Horne – who is demanding the 15 jersey ahead of him? There is no one out there who is fit and materially better across attack/defense/under the high ball.
BB is an underrated test footballer than SR player – the complete reverse of QC. Once again – cant see any one who is hard done by to miss out.
Lordy – I know its fashionable to tah-bash at every opportunity, and this team is not a world beater. We need to accept our position as an average test rugby country with the players we have available. Deans is not staking his reputation on the Tahs players – all of these are logical selections
June 8th 2012 @ 11:43am
Justin2 said | June 8th 2012 @ 11:43am | Report comment
TPN may have Moore covered in the scrum but thats it. Moore is outstanding around the park, TPN is rarely sighted.
June 8th 2012 @ 12:23pm
Riccardo said | June 8th 2012 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Not true Justin.
You’ll see him being treated by medical staff after injuring himself with that self-taught “tackle with my head” technique.
June 8th 2012 @ 12:29pm
Jutsie said | June 8th 2012 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
I remember how the fox sports commentators used to go crazy applauding his kamikaze style tackling method, I knew it would catch up with him sooner or later.
I rate him as a player and hope he sorts out his technique because as you point out riccardo he spends half the game in the hands of trainers. Its very frustrating.
June 8th 2012 @ 12:34pm
mania said | June 8th 2012 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
tackling with your head is majorly stupid. even in gridiron when you have a full metal helmet on you shouldnt use your head.
June 8th 2012 @ 12:37pm
Jutsie said | June 8th 2012 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
There is a real lack of professionalism in aus rugby when techniques like TPN’s are allowed to go unchanged all the way upto test level.
It is also worrying that people like kearns and martin applaud it, they are setting a bad example.
June 8th 2012 @ 12:43pm
mania said | June 8th 2012 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
agree Jutsie – how has TPN been allowed to get this far without someone tapping him on the shoulder and saying “thats not what we meant by using your head”
June 8th 2012 @ 1:11pm
Justin2 said | June 8th 2012 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
Touche Riccardo
June 8th 2012 @ 2:05pm
Markus said | June 8th 2012 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the tackling method in and of itself. The Faingaa’s both use the same technique, to great effect.
TPN also used to be devastating at it, but ever since he got his first head knock doing it, his timing appears to be completely offm and more often than not he ends up getting his head in front of the player instead of behind, setting him up for more head knocks.
For his own sake, it is time to give it up.
June 8th 2012 @ 2:10pm
Jutsie said | June 8th 2012 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
But the problem markus is that head knocks are likely to occur, its not just TPN that has been knocked about, remember the sickening incident at the world cup when A. Finger went down at the end of the USA game?
June 8th 2012 @ 3:32pm
AndyS said | June 8th 2012 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
I don’t necessarily disagree WF, but best by what measure? The bulk of those players are from a team that is routinely getting its a*** handed to it in Super rugby, so while they are probably the players that ought to be the best we have, they don’t seem to be that convinced or convincing…
June 8th 2012 @ 5:26pm
wallaby fan said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:26pm | Report comment
Almost every week the tahs outplay their opposition pack. Just check the possession stats and the fact 7 losses have been within 7 points. It is their 9 and 10 that have been dreadful.
Forwards provide the possession and go forward, the 9 and 10 need to orchestrate the wins which is not happening.
The tahs pack plus Pocock and a bunch of mostly reds in the backline is all we need.
June 8th 2012 @ 6:54am
eagleJack said | June 8th 2012 @ 6:54am | Report comment
David, I’d be interested to see how you would change the side? You noted the injuries we have plus the Tuesday Test must be taken into consideration for players like Moore who would be physically drained. Under the circumstances this is the best side available. I couldn’t care less if they were all taken from the Force if they were our best available. Test rugby is a different kettle of fish.
June 8th 2012 @ 6:34am
justsaying said | June 8th 2012 @ 6:34am | Report comment
I agree. The All Blacks played close to an all-Hurricanes backline last year after the Hurricanes came last in the NZ conference and all they managed to do was WIN THE WORLD CUP. It has been shown time and time again that Super Rugby form means nothing on the international stage yet Aussie fans still can’t seem to stop themselves making that connection. All of the Waratahs players selected are proven at international level and deserve the chance to rise above the form of their Super Rugby team.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:58am
formeropenside said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:58am | Report comment
Horne: proven when? Against Canada?
TPN and Palu were last fine some time ago.
Barnes is a 12 not a 10.
AAC has been quiet for a while now, but has performed in the past on a reasonably consistent basis.
Benn Robbo has historically been good, but has not played a Test for 18 months.
June 8th 2012 @ 10:22am
justsaying said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:22am | Report comment
My point is that they all have international experience and shouldn’t be labelled poor selections merely because of the Super Rugby team they play for. Wallaby fan’s comments above are on the mark I think – these guys are probably the best available in their positions right now – there’s certainly no-one else that could be regarded as streets ahead in terms of form. Moreover, it seems to be pretty much universally accepted on these forums that it is the Waratahs’ tactics, rather than their players, that has caused their slide in 2012. There is no reason to suppose these guys can’t rise above the Waratahs’ form in Wallabies jerseys.
June 8th 2012 @ 11:45am
formeropenside said | June 8th 2012 @ 11:45am | Report comment
There is no reason to suppose they can, either.
June 8th 2012 @ 12:10pm
justsaying said | June 8th 2012 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
Well exactly, but the point is that the Waratahs’ form is irrelevant either way – we’re in international rugby now. Good selection policy is pick the best players, not pick the players from the best team.
June 8th 2012 @ 12:15pm
Red Kev said | June 8th 2012 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
Reading Clyde.Rathbone’s posts he tellingly points out that combinations are often more important than the best individual player in each position. So I am going to thoroughly disagree with you mr ‘justsaying’.
June 8th 2012 @ 12:58pm
justsaying said | June 8th 2012 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
Suit yourself Mr ‘Red Kev’. Have you noticed the new AB backline, by the way? Barely a single established combo among them. AND only one Chiefs player! Clearly Hansen has lost his marbles – no way they’re gonna deliver on Saturday…
June 8th 2012 @ 1:26pm
Red Kev said | June 8th 2012 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
You don’t think that Carter and SBW have a combination after playing an entire season together last year?
You don’t think SBW as the second choice 10 has trained a lot with Conrad Smith outside him?
You don’t think Guilford and Dagg are a combination?
Interesting.
You espouse picking the best available players … so you’re sanguine about Piri Weepu as an All Black in 2012.
Very interesting.
June 8th 2012 @ 1:47pm
justsaying said | June 8th 2012 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
Those examples are no more established than, say, the combination between Barnes and Horne, or Barnes and McCabe (would have trained together for World Cup), or even between Genia and Ioane (Ioane gets most of his ball from Genia as Aussie midfielders don’t seem to know how to pass). You sort of have a point with Carter-SBW, but the latter is playing a very different game this year and no doubt will be used by the ABs in a very different way to how the Crusaders used him in 2011. In any case the established combo (Carter-Nonu) was there and the ABs selectors clearly chose form over combination.
I’m happy with the Weepu selection and I fully expect him to step up when he gets the black jersey back on. Same with Ali Williams and Nonu – sure the Blues have been poor, but this is a new team with a different environment and I’m fully confident those guys will lift their games.
June 8th 2012 @ 1:58pm
Red Kev said | June 8th 2012 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
Yes they are.
This is the first time Deans has used Barnes as a primary 10 except in injury crises (like Quade going down). Barnes was selected as a 12 for the RWC. When QC couldn’t play O’Connor has been used at 10.
10-12 is not the same combo or effectiveness as 10-13 or 10-injured list (which is where Horne spends most of his time).
June 8th 2012 @ 2:20pm
justsaying said | June 8th 2012 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
Did you seriously just use O’Connor at 10 to back up an argument that combinations are more important than form? Who exactly does O’Connor have a combination with?
June 8th 2012 @ 3:08pm
Red Kev said | June 8th 2012 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
Are you even reading what is posted. I used the FACT that Deans uses O’Connor as the back up 10 to refute the bunkum you posted.about Barnes having combinations. I was pointing out a factual flaw in your post.
You are the one supporting Deans’ selections “these guys are probably the best available in their positions right now”.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:20pm
justsaying said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:20pm | Report comment
You cited the fact that O’Connor played backup 10 as evidence that Barnes had not established combinations. Yet O’Connor is the very definition of a selection based on individual ability – he had LESS established combinations that Barnes, yet he was selected ahead of Barnes (and presumably still would be, if he were fit).
In any case, O’Connor wasn’t used at 10 until the Wallabies went to Wales after the World Cup. I’d suggest that before that Barnes was the one training as backup 10 and forging combinations with players like McCabe and Horne. That’s reflected in the FACT that when Cooper broke down in the bronze match it was Barnes, not O’Connor, who took over at 10.
And I’m not defending Deans’ selections necessarily – I’m defending the selection policy that you pick your best available players regardless of the performance of the teams they play for.
June 8th 2012 @ 5:35pm
Red Kev said | June 8th 2012 @ 5:35pm | Report comment
so you believe in pick individuals, fair enough, I believe in picking the best team regardless of whether each player is the best in their spot, Cooper and Genia’s combination would outweigh Lealiifano’s superior form for instance.
June 8th 2012 @ 6:09am
werewolf said | June 8th 2012 @ 6:09am | Report comment
To be frank the waratah pack are the only australian pack that get the better of their opposition pack week in week out. Just look at their possession stats. The lack of sucess falls on the 9 and 10 who have been dreadful for the tahs this year.
Indeed the tahs pack has dominated each of the other australian packs this year. Again the blame for losing to the brumbies and reds lays at the feet of their playmakers not their pack and outside backs.
June 8th 2012 @ 6:31am
Red Kev said | June 8th 2012 @ 6:31am | Report comment
I now expect Wales to win.
Starting the Waratahs front row is a good move, they are already a unit and a strong one at that.
Having Alexander on the bench is stupid. He is insipid at scrum time. Palmer didn’t play in the Brumbies match on the weekend and played 70 minutes of the Scotland game – he can back up off the bench.
Where is Douglas? Or Pyle? Simmons and Sharpe in the second row are great for the lineouts not so good for the grunt factor.
If I was Wales I would be keeping in touch until Alexander comes on, then really put the screws to the scrum on the tight side – Alexander with Sharpe behind him will fold like a deck chair.
Back row is good, not sure about 2 loose forwards on the bench though unless there is a 5/2 split.
But the backline is going to be pumped. Davies will run through Horne. North probably won’t even notice Vuna as he runs into space on that wing. And if Genia doesn’t start clearing the ball quickly Phillips is going to monster him.
I don’t think Deans had any choice but to play Horne, Fainga’a played well against Scotland but he doesn’t offer anything in attack – it’s a calculated gamble. AAC though is a bad call – Morahan or Mogg would have been better, AAC as super sub on a 5/2 bench is smarter; he is no longer world class as a starter, and his mr fix it ability is best utilised from the bench. Vuna is also a bad call, Shipperley is a much stronger winger.
Oh yeah, and Priestland should be kicking to Vuna’s wing all night long, the guy has the worst positional play I’ve ever seen in a back-three player.
Wales by 10 I say.
June 8th 2012 @ 7:02am
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2012 @ 7:02am | Report comment
RK Davies is one of the weakest international 13s I have seen and generally the least impressive Welsh back: I can’t even remember a linebreak from him even against the Italians-maybe that’s why Horne was played.
Vuna is a problem in defence, but is also capable of strengthening an attack that is very suspect without Beale, Cooper, JOC and now Tomane. Shipperley is a much less dangerous attacking player.
AAC isn’t good but nor are Morahan or Mogg that good and AAC has massive experience for what is a crucial match in a critical position.
The real problem is that without Beale, Cooper, JOC and Tomane the Wallabies attack is the weakest in years.
June 8th 2012 @ 7:22am
Red Kev said | June 8th 2012 @ 7:22am | Report comment
Would you stop putting Tomane in that list. He has had one match in terrible conditions. Mitchell and Turner belong on that list, not Tomane. You make yourself look like an idiot with your references to him as “the heart and soul of the backline” and making out liike he is a big loss.
Shipperley is also a far better attacker than you give him credit for, he is only just shaded by Tomane in attack and is better in defence.
June 8th 2012 @ 8:50am
Dasher said | June 8th 2012 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Why does Tomane get mentioned in the same breath as Beale, Cooper and JOC – twice? Those three have proven themselves over multiple seasons with the Wallabies. Tomane has played about 10 games for the Brumbies and ONE game for the Wallabies. I have no misconceptions that Tomane has talent, but he is not a proven Wallaby nor is he head and shoulders above his competition – Morahan, Shipperley, Mitchell, etc.
June 8th 2012 @ 7:40am
kingplaymaker said | June 8th 2012 @ 7:40am | Report comment
At least I’m not as downright rude as you are.
June 8th 2012 @ 10:58am
stillmatic1 said | June 8th 2012 @ 10:58am | Report comment
really?
June 8th 2012 @ 8:28am
Jack said | June 8th 2012 @ 8:28am | Report comment
I wonder how many of the Warratah players would get a start for the Brumbies? White is an astute judge of ability and attitude so I suspect not many.
June 8th 2012 @ 9:17am
Harry said | June 8th 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Very good point. Everyone froths about Dave Dennis but IMO(and the scoreboards) Ben Mowem has been a better player this year and deserved a chance ahead of Dennis. He’s also captained his team to Wins.