Lay off Deans: blame the three amigos
By wre01, 9 Jun 2012 wre01 is a Roar Rookie
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Australian Wallabies Will Genia (2nd-L), speaks with teammates Drew Mitchell (L), Quade Cooper (2nd-R) and Kurtley Beale. AFP PHOTO / Greg WOOD
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When Robbie Deans was appointed coach of the Wallabies he was hailed as the Messiah. Immediately adopted as ‘Dingo’. And rightly so given his achievements and record.
Now those who even utter a defence of the man are run out of town by a lynch mob. Either that or they are accused of being his lover or worse still, a traitor. But we need someone to blame don’t we?
Well look no further than the players themselves. Their culture, attitude and desire are behind the decline of the Wallaby aura Tim Horan has spoken about this week.
Let’s start with Deans’s record pre Wallabies. I mean he clearly is out of his depth now, he doesn’t know what he’s doing, was never destined to be an international coach but how did he do before he crossed the Tasman?
Some of you may recall that by 2008 he had been the dominant force in developing and leading a Crusaders side that can lay claim to being the best provincial side of the modern era. Talk to any south islander and they will tell you his talent identification, man management and rugby style were second to none.
He was to Christchurch what Wayne Bennett was to Brisbane. Yes he had the McCaws and Carters to lean on, but he developed them. He was there to identify their talent and cultivate it.
So we turn to the obvious next question: why did he succeed in bringing on the Crusaders and fail with the Wallabies?
Let’s look at culture for one. McCaw and Carter became superstars of the game as well as great team men. Watching Carter interviewed on TV at his old man’s pub in rural New Zealand is refreshing. He shows humility, integrity and selflessness despite being the greatest fly-half of his generation.
O’Connor, Cooper and Beale are talented individuals whose understanding of team doesn’t extend beyond being part of ‘The Three Amigos’. I mean those three are really superb players, just ask them! When they aren’t getting their ‘Figjam’ on, they are developing their rugby brand or living it up at pubs in Brisbane long associated with boozed up bogans.
Which brings me to my next point, selections. Of course Deans can’t leave The Three Amigos out of the side, not with the huge ARU contracts they have. But Deans has been mostly condemned for his other selections. Two in particular, McCabe at 12 and the perseverance with McCalman, have been especially controversial. So let’s look at what those two guys have in common. Work ethic, low profiles, heart. You can say they are boring players but they leave it all on the field.
Similarly, the individuals Deans has left out say something about his selection policy too. Take Giteau for example, it’s difficult to find a rugby insider who will say a good word about him. Modest and low profile he was not. Which kind of player do you want in your national side?
I’m sure you’re all saying, “I want players who can win”. Understandable if not overly moral. So let’s move on to the third point – consistency.
We all know what the Three Amigos and the Wallabies are capable of. There was the decimation of France in Paris following the loss to an average English side at Twickenham. Then the first win at altitude in South Africa since who-cares-when, followed by a comprehensive beating by New Zealand. Or how about having the All Blacks in Brisbane and then losing to Samoa a month later? And the Rugby World Cup, lose to Ireland, beat South Africa. It goes on and on.
Some say these losses were about selections and tactics but those people are absolutely wrong. If his tactics and selections are so wrong, why aren’t the Wallabies losing every week? How can they produce efforts like in Paris, Hong Kong, Brisbane and Bloemfontein? The fact is each and every member in the game day squads was good enough to beat Samoa, Scotland and Ireland. Certainly the team as a whole on each occasion was good enough to win.
The up and down yoyo form is about attitude, not Deans’s selection, not Deans’s tactics, not Deans’s ability. This generation of Wallaby players just doesn’t want it badly enough. They lack a burning desire. They are soft. They don’t get team. They have poor values. Sorry, it’s harsh but true.
Deans has tried to instil in each and every one of them a culture. But he is no miracle worker is he? I mean Cooper is practically being raised by Khoder Nasser (what a fine job that man did with Anthony Mundine). O’Connor and Beale seem to hop, skip and jump to wherever the money is. Worse than that, they then treat us all like fools by telling us they moved to Melbourne for their ‘rugby development’. Start pointing the finger at the Khoder Nassers and James O’Connor Snrs of this world. They are raising their children not Robbie Deans.
And what of the alternatives if Deans does go early? Let’s face it, McKenzie is the only alternative and yes he is a good coach. He was sacked by NSW, sacked by Stade Francais but has worked wonders at the Reds. It just shows how long five years is in Rugby.
Let’s hope the lynch mob doesn’t turn on him without first asking questions of the players if things don’t go according to plan when he gets his chance.
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June 9th 2012 @ 2:44am
SandBox said | June 9th 2012 @ 2:44am | Report comment
Most of what you say makes sense. However, Deans has had five years now, and we keep getting the old “almost there – stay on target” Star Wars type mind trick run-around Eddie style diatribe. None of your article explains this reiteration.
June 9th 2012 @ 2:56am
KiwiDave said | June 9th 2012 @ 2:56am | Report comment
Just watched another 9-6 shock result in the wind, rain and mud. The baby blacks went down 9-6 to Wales u20 side. Dont think you will see a bunch of kiwis calling for the head of the coach though. You will see them congratulating Wales on one of their greatest ever victories and taking the loss on the chin with good grace.
June 9th 2012 @ 3:36am
SandBox said | June 9th 2012 @ 3:36am | Report comment
did you treat Hart and Mitchell with that same good grace?
June 9th 2012 @ 3:36am
SandBox said | June 9th 2012 @ 3:36am | Report comment
June 9th 2012 @ 5:11am
Will said | June 9th 2012 @ 5:11am | Report comment
How about Grant Fox? Treated with good grace? Kiwis are the least loyal fans around!
June 9th 2012 @ 10:09am
Nick said | June 9th 2012 @ 10:09am | Report comment
No thats not true.
Kiwi fans are very loyal to the All Blacks but definitely take things a little too seriously if the wheels come off.
For an example of how the tide has turned in NZ you only have to look to the polls that wanted, overwhelmingly, Henry and co to stay on after the 2007 RWC instead of a change to Deans. The vast majority of fans wanted them to have another shot even though it was our worst effort to date.
Thats a huge change in attitude in NZ and it proved to be the right one.
June 9th 2012 @ 7:55am
Xiedazhou said | June 9th 2012 @ 7:55am | Report comment
Give it a break “Kiwi Dave”, one wonders if there will ever be an article wherein the content will be unable to be linked by you back to a comment about how superior the Kiwis are. Your comment is tiresome, repetitive, and off topic, as well as being fundamentally flawed. Your beloved Kiwis are very quick to turn on their own and play the blame game, but then again I never expect you to be objective.
On topic, well one wonders if there is not a grain of truth in this article, but perhaps one has to go further back than the three amigos. Giteau was for a long time a divisive force in Australian rugby, and we saw “player power” almost destry the Brumbies. Recent history has shown some players in Australian rugby become to believe they are bigger than the game and their team, and the performances of both those individuals, and the teams they are in usually spirals downward shortly after the ascension to the throne as the “chosen one”. Elsom is another who doesnt seem to have a good concept of “team” yet he was appointed by Deans as captain? Maybe players like Will Genia, who sacrificed hundreds of thousands of dollars to stay wiht his team, should be the nucleus of the Wallabies moving forward? I worry about Pocock, and where he is heading. the “player power” reaction to Graham movinv on was not a positive sign in my opinion.
June 9th 2012 @ 8:09am
Will said | June 9th 2012 @ 8:09am | Report comment
All fair comments I think.
I question your Pocock comment only because I think there was a sense of betrayal when Graham left unexpectedly. I think Pocock has done his best to make the Force successful and Graham jumping ship probably undermined his efforts to pull Genia over to WA too.
June 9th 2012 @ 9:25am
ohtani's jacket said | June 9th 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
One of the greatest ever victories? It was an u20 game. And we turned on Mains, Hart, Mitchell and Deans and Henry, Hansen and Smith in my time. The only coaches who escaped criticism from my memory were Lochore, Wylie and Wayne Smith because he jumped before he was pushed.
June 9th 2012 @ 9:50am
Harry said | June 9th 2012 @ 9:50am | Report comment
Give it a break mate.
Your entire country has a nervous breakdown and goes into depression when you lose. Who can ever forget those excruciating press conferences and apologies to the nation in 99, 03 and 07. Followed by vicious infighting and personal abuse/denigration of the worst order. Even this year we’ve seen it with Auckland imploding.
June 9th 2012 @ 1:23pm
Snobby Deans said | June 9th 2012 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Harry – the difference I guess between Aussie and NZ is that, if Aussie went into a depression every time they lost, they’d never come out of it.
NZ is no different passion-wise than those AFL fanatics – only difference is, all of NZ is behind the one team and suffers the heartbreak as one. If all of Victoria was behind a single team and lost on the international stage (Oops, AFL doesn’t have that other than the farcical games with Ireland), then you’d see that same level of passion.
You don’t see that in Rugby as there’s a far wider spread of sports, and also the Aussie fans are more fickle – most jump ship as soon as their team loses.
As a Kiwi, I hurt when the All Blacks lose (a lot less than I used to), but I contrast that with the joy when they win. It’s great to invest yourself emotionally in your team, and to know that there are millions of others who have that same passion.
BTW – I struggle so see the segue from the earlier comments to yours. Just seems a bit like a random dig, and a pretty poor one at that.
June 9th 2012 @ 2:57am
Ben S said | June 9th 2012 @ 2:57am | Report comment
If Beale hadn’t of kicked that last minute winner against SA two seasons ago Deans might not even have made the WC.
June 9th 2012 @ 3:00am
bluerose said | June 9th 2012 @ 3:00am | Report comment
i blame all of them, all the coaches and the players including the Capt, our scrum has been a laughing stock for years and i havent seen an improvement, is it the fault of the scrum coach?, head coach?, fowards coach? or the players (frontrow)?, our midfield is too one dimensional yet no one is teaching them how to run, pass, step or kick, is it the fault of the backline coach?, skill coach?, head coach? or the players?, the blame should not be directed at Deans alone, its all of them that should be blamed.
June 9th 2012 @ 3:08am
kingplaymaker said | June 9th 2012 @ 3:08am | Report comment
A superb article and great to see someone with the courage to speak the truth instead of the cowardice to jump on a xenophobic bandwagon.
The point it does not make is that most Deans criticism is informed by the intense dislike that many fans and media writers have for a non-Australian coaching Australia. This comes across in one-sided criticism, venom, the neglect of facing the important broader problems and searching for any excuse to attack Deans. Refusal to take into consideration for example the pathetic playing pool Deans works with and the cripping scheduling of this last match are just two examples.
The anti-foreigner bias is a disgrace to Australian rugby and its media: for a supposedly open society it reflects the worst kind of petty nationalism.
Robbie Deans has been treated terribly by the Wallaby supporters and much of the media, and the ultimate shame will be if he is replaced because of xenophobia.
June 9th 2012 @ 3:13am
Ben S said | June 9th 2012 @ 3:13am | Report comment
Last week you made accusations of racism toward another Roarer, and were moderated for it, and yet you keep labelling people xenophobic. I find it offensive. You’ve never expanded on the comment, you just keep trotting out the same one liner. Can you stop it please. It’s unnecessary and provocative.
June 9th 2012 @ 11:49am
sledgeandhammer said | June 9th 2012 @ 11:49am | Report comment
The fact that you are offended by the word xenophobic is offensive in itself.
June 9th 2012 @ 5:32pm
Ben S said | June 9th 2012 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
Here we go. I find it offensive that some joker keeps on trotting out the same bizarre accusations when he probably doesn’t have the first clue about racism. It’s cringeworthy.
June 9th 2012 @ 5:33am
Will said | June 9th 2012 @ 5:33am | Report comment
KPM
Thanks very much for the compliments and feedback.
What I would say is that I don’t think this is about xenophobia. In my opinion it wouldn’t have mattered if it was Eddie Jones, Jake White or indeed Ewen McKenzie. The public demands success.
However the point of my article was to get across that it is an indictment on society that the players are not the ones being held to account. Here are kids making absolute fortunes who aren’t accountable.
Deans deserves more respect but also a fair appraisal- he has given them game plans and they implement them on a sporadic basis. He has delivered wins but the players then don’t back them up.
Unlike the Alex Fergussons of this world he can’t buy new cattle. And the cattle keep letting him down. Simple as that.
June 9th 2012 @ 5:40am
Johnno said | June 9th 2012 @ 5:40am | Report comment
Eddie Jones has soem Japanese heritage in him and is now head coach of Japan.
Sir Alex Ferguson copped a lot of abuse in England when he 1st started coaching Man United. As everyone knows Sir Alex is Scotish. He once was considering the England head coach job in the 90′s but was hounded down in both England and Scotland as unthinkable so pulled out of the running. Sir Alex was head coach of scotland at Mexico 86.
And Jake white is south african as is Micky arthur the australian head cricket coach.
June 9th 2012 @ 7:19am
Will said | June 9th 2012 @ 7:19am | Report comment
Johnno my point exactly
June 9th 2012 @ 10:00am
Nick said | June 9th 2012 @ 10:00am | Report comment
Nah thats not it KPM. Its cos he keeps losing matches he should win and his team so often looks headless.
He was appointed to win, not to sort out which of the excuses is the best one.
June 9th 2012 @ 3:35am
Johnno said | June 9th 2012 @ 3:35am | Report comment
Ben S put a sock in it KPM is making constructive points, and has a dare where other’s don’t dare attitude. Reawrd his bravado and guts and if you read KPM’s words you will see they are constructive and get to the point.
-He does make some very valid points one only has to look at history which to me is the best guide, and history modern sprots or art for example eg Andy Warhol, or ancient, or classical, or avont garde, or new world , or pre or post modernism history can not be underestimated. some facts on past history to jog your memory Ben S and others.
-When Deans was appointed in 2007 there was a national outcry the anger was very xenophobic and harsh and all sorts of nonsense Deans had to deal with.
-The only time a foreign coach has been welcomed here has been in soccer, as it used to be seen as a foreign game, so it was almost like almost like a perverted want that a foreigner gets the job.
In other words if an aussie got the socceroos job he was seen as loving ethnic people , or loving wog ball or all other sorts of nonsense that doesn’t perverse Australia anymore.
-Athletes in rugby league form england in the past have had to put up with nonsense too, and insults.
So there is some elements of xenophobia in sport in Australia i am sorry to say. KPM is 100% right Ben S.
-And Deans has been let down by his 3 young glamourous young players KB, JOC , and QC and not for the 1st time.
Last year KB or was it JOC missed the wallaby opening world cup gathering. Terrible embarrassment.
And everyone remembers Quade’s problems in the past how he had to go to court
June 9th 2012 @ 3:40am
Ben S said | June 9th 2012 @ 3:40am | Report comment
He’s clearly not making valid points because a) he can’t speak for all Australia rugby fans and therefore he can’t suggest their reasons are racial rather than sporting, and b) he has never expanded upon his constant one liners re: xenophobia, so really he hasn’t actually ever made a point – instead he’s simply made a base accusation. Lastly, during the tenure of Deans the majority of Australian Roarers have actually been very pro-Deans, as have the people like Zavos and Lord. It’s offensive and it drags threads down into the gutter. You know you’re trash talking when you manage to irritate Brett, who is easily one of the most amiable and inclusive Roarers on this site.
June 9th 2012 @ 11:53am
sledgeandhammer said | June 9th 2012 @ 11:53am | Report comment
mate, lots of people who don’t like Deans openly state their preference for an Australian coach. There is a level of xenophobia in this (fear of foreigners). It doesn’t mean every single rugby support has to have this view for it to be valid. Your comments are pompous in the extreme. In terms of support, I have never seen so much vitriol posted against an Australian coach, not even Jones, and he deserved it.
June 9th 2012 @ 5:36pm
Ben S said | June 9th 2012 @ 5:36pm | Report comment
I’ve only seen a handful of comments on this site re: foreign coaches, so to refer only to xenophobia for all is quite clearly inappropriate, especially when that person constantly repeats the same comment without ever expanding upon it. Never seen so much vitriol? That’s just plain wrong. If you think it’s pompous then I guess you’ve had a sheltered life. Your ‘argument’ is all over the place.
June 9th 2012 @ 3:53am
kingplaymaker said | June 9th 2012 @ 3:53am | Report comment
Johnno thanks: the whole treatment of Deans has so rarely been fair that it reflects very badly on the Australian rugby.
Ben S for what it’s worth has some personal obsession with me as I haven’t replied to any of his posts for over two years but every week he writes dozens of posts attacking what I say: he seems to me to be someone who is more interested in arguing for the sake of it and trying to score points than actually discussing rugby. Every single other poster on this site actually says what they think and wants to discuss rugby, instead of simply wanting to argue about something. In any case it’s quite bizarre that someone would spend two years of their life tirelessly writing posts to someone who doesn’t reply to them and odd that it qualifies as discussion on this forum.
June 9th 2012 @ 4:08am
Ben S said | June 9th 2012 @ 4:08am | Report comment
Actually, I call you out regularly, as Brett said he would. You constantly contradict yourself, make things up and generally write overtly provocative things. I point out that what you tend to say re: rugby is generally off the mark, especially when you suggest you can speak for a huge group of people, be they Australian or English. I suspect you choose not to engage for the simple reason that you know what you’re doing and that I’ve proven you factually incorrect on multiple occasions. I don’t get anybody calling me out. If you were an actual rugby fan then you wouldn’t consistently say the things you do re: xenophobia and racism etc. That’s just bizarre and frankly quite outrageous. If you watched rugby, had every played rugby or understood the spirit of the game then you wouldn’t conduct yourself in this manner. You’ve ruined so many threads, which is probably why so few people choose to seriously undertake debate with you. For goodness sake – you even had Wayne Smith calling you out. There’s a pattern here.
June 9th 2012 @ 10:59am
kingplaymaker said | June 9th 2012 @ 10:59am | Report comment
I would say some proof either way will be forthcoming tomorrow but next week would be a better proof.
June 9th 2012 @ 5:38pm
Ben S said | June 9th 2012 @ 5:38pm | Report comment
Doesn’t make sense, mate.
June 9th 2012 @ 8:18am
Sage said | June 9th 2012 @ 8:18am | Report comment
I’ve never had a need to cross swords with you KPM but I do agree with BenS here in that I don’t like being branded a xenophobe or a coward. Also that I can’t wait for Vuna to fail either as you stated on another thread. I think it is very reasonable for a lot of serious questions to be asked of Robbie. I have come out here before and stated my admiration for him as a man but we all have to be objective. The culture of a team comes from the top down so he has to take some responsibility. There is no doubt the 3 amigos (intentionally disparraging I would add) act immaturely at times. No doubt Richie McCaw is a different style of fella and easier to respect for his humility. Just like David Pocock. Aussies like that in a bloke just like the Kiwi’s do. But that doesn’t mean the 3 amigos should be held responsible and that you can say the inconsistencies by the WB’s is because they’re soft and Deans therefore isn’t really to blame. That’s as ridiculously subjective as many of the comments on Deans, equally ridiculous, that KPM has been railing against for quite some time. Lets get some perspective here. Robbie has an ordinary record. He appears to be making some ordinary decisions so it is very right it is dissected on a take no prisoners Rugby site. He is not solely responsible but he HAS to take the bulk of the responsibility for the culture and passion of the team he has headed for over 4 years. Interesting Wayne Bennet was mentioned. One of that fine mans greatest assets is his man motivation skills. Guys would crawl over broken glass for him and give there absolute all on the field with him as the leader. Robbie just isn’t achieving that and it’s very right for him to be under the closest of scrutiny
June 9th 2012 @ 8:31am
Will said | June 9th 2012 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Sage
A fair comment and fair observations.
In the article I used the 3 amigos to illustrate the problem. While I think they are the ‘face’ of the issue if you like, I didn’t intend to make out it was only about them.
I firmly believe the side is soft, over indulged and lacks commitment. They perform when everyone writes them off because they have to. Yet go missing in action in games that are less hyped and glamourous.
Deans was to Christchurch what Bennett was to Brisbane. The Crusaders and Broncos crawled over glass as you put it for both of them I would say.
Why are the 3 amigos and co different?
Maybe it’s because Deans can’t drop them? There isn’t enough depth. So they are all sitting pretty and too comfy.
Id rather lose a few games with the McCalmans and McCabes of this world than the prima donnas we have now.
June 9th 2012 @ 9:24am
Sage said | June 9th 2012 @ 9:24am | Report comment
I agree with most of that Will. Like most, it’s not the losing so much, it’s the losing showing no great passion and commitment when wearing the Gold jersey that upsets me the most. That was my criticism of the Scotland game. Not the losing, Scotland were outstanding and deserved to win, it was the way they seemed to lack the spirit that once was synonomous with the Australian colours, and that is in any sport. That is what I am heartsore about with the WB’s and why to a degree, I hold Robbie Deans responsible for not enabling or engendering that in this very young team. Many will state that it is the players responsibility and to some point it is, but if you’ve ever spent any time in the sheds before kick off or even more, at half time and you’re under the pump and you’re listening to your coach and the passion he has or hasn’t for the task at hand and the way that is delivered, that in my opinion is where most games are won and lost. Now whether that has anything to do with Robbie not being an Aussie, even if he is a Cousin, I won’t comment on for risk of Xenophobic taunts from KPM ! And I would add to your W Bennet analogy Will in that he has transported his skills to others such as St George, and the Kiwi’s with continued success whereas Robbie hasn’t moved passed Canterbury for either the WB’s or the AB’s.
June 9th 2012 @ 10:04am
Nick said | June 9th 2012 @ 10:04am | Report comment
Most of KPMs comments about the subject are extraordinarily odd. essentially he lists excises as to why the Wallabies should beat good teams.
Small Player pool
Sometimes it rains and they have to play
Everyone is mean to Robbie
I don’t get it, do you want a coach to make your team better or do you want one that confirms the fact you’re not a great side? Esstially it doesn’t matter if Deans is good or not, he’s not delivered and he’s had 4 years to turn it around. Give someone else a go.
Surely that makes sense?
June 9th 2012 @ 3:54am
KiwiDave said | June 9th 2012 @ 3:54am | Report comment
Was JOC and as I remember Deans copped a lot of flak for dropping him for the tri nations decider. The Wallabies went on to win that but still he copped flak over disciplining him
June 9th 2012 @ 7:30am
Red Kev said | June 9th 2012 @ 7:30am | Report comment
Maybe in New Zealand but not in the Australian Press. Everyone I spoke to and every story I read on Fox Sports said it was the right move.
Bottom line – Deans is in charge of the team. If the three amigos are destabilising it, it is incumbent upon Deans to pull them up and hammer the bad attitude out of them. If he lacks the guts to drop them then that is just another reason why he shouldn’t be the coach.
June 9th 2012 @ 9:54am
Harry said | June 9th 2012 @ 9:54am | Report comment
No hDeans got more praise than flack for that decision. What ire there was was directed at JOC for weakening the Walls when we had the rare opportunity to win something of note. Its hard enough without weakening from within.
June 9th 2012 @ 7:31am
SandBox said | June 9th 2012 @ 7:31am | Report comment
this is rubbish, Deans has had five years of excuses. The over paid executives have tapped into Australia’s lack of self belief. Deans is from overseas so his lack of performance must be some how our fault. Wake up Australia, we deserve better.
June 9th 2012 @ 7:49am
Will said | June 9th 2012 @ 7:49am | Report comment
And who is better Sandbox?
As i said in my article, in the past 5 years Ewen McKenzie was fired by NSW and Stade Francais. When he left Stade the club said he had wasted resources and failed to implement a proper program. He came to QLD and did well but again that doesn’t tell the full story.
Cheika, Johnson, Friend. None of them are ready. Maybe Foley? Done a great job in NSW?
What Australian rugby needs and deserves is an honest look at it’s player pool and culture. Nobody has a god given right to the jumper. The inconsistency is proof the players lack application, desire and professionalism. It is more a reflection on them.
June 9th 2012 @ 8:00am
Ben S said | June 9th 2012 @ 8:00am | Report comment
The Stade claim was a response to McKenzie who stated that the club were basically a farce, with players brought in only for commercial reasons. Personally I don’t think McKenzie did a bad job there.
June 9th 2012 @ 8:17am
Will said | June 9th 2012 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Ben I know the Stade owner is eccentric but McKenzie went there knowing the set up. He also took Gasnier there, an expensive failure.
I think McKenzie will and should be the next Wallaby coach. I’m just saying the public has a short memory, can be fickle and that 5 years is ages in rugby.
Until the underlying problems are addressed no coach will be successful.
June 9th 2012 @ 8:31am
Ben S said | June 9th 2012 @ 8:31am | Report comment
But did he take Gasnier there or was it suggested by Guazzini? I think his record there was actually OK, but I get what you’re saying. I also think he did well with the Tahs, and would be the man to turn around the Wallabies, but who knows?
Ultimately I don’t think there are too many issues aside from coaching. The depth could be better, but one of the arts of coaching is finding diamonds out there that not everybody can see. Connolly tried this with Guy Sheperdson and Tac McIsaac (sic), for example, but it didn’t work. Deans has by and large been a conservative selector, and that will never work with a nation like Australia who just doesn’t have the same depth as SA or NZ.
Further re: coaching, after every loss Deans seems stunned by the efforts of the opposition. For example, when England won the 2nd Test in Australia in 2010 it was obvious from the players selected that England would play further away from the scrum. Also, Brian Smith, then of England, noticed a flaw come lineout time whereby the Australian forwards left too big a gap, and Ben Youngs scored through that gap. Likewise the restarts were targeted heavily by Croft because weaknesses were seen there. Post-game it was as if Australia thought England were going to try to scrum the Wallabies into submission. The same issues then reared their head after the record loss at Twickenham the next time the sides met. Similarly, after the Ireland game during the WC there were recriminations over how Australia dealt with the Irish grapple tackle. Well Ireland had done the same thing in the preceding 6N. I’d be a fool to say that Deans is solely to blame, as clearly there are myriad issues, but his tenure has been a huge flop plagued by repeated mistakes, and in that instance I think he deserves the greatest proprtion of blame.
June 9th 2012 @ 8:50am
nickoldschool said | June 9th 2012 @ 8:50am | Report comment
It didnt go well between McKenzie and Guazzini and it quickly became personal. One (Mckenzie) calls the other one the leader of a ‘mafia’, the other says the aussie wasnt committed and didnt deliver. Dunno who to believe atlhough being a SF supporter, i would like to believe McK was simply not the man for this team.
Guazzini isnt perfect but as a president he has done wonders for the club, brought the public back to the stadium etc. To say that he hired players for the sole purpose of the calendar (nude) is pure rubbish and if link did say that, i think he is become very bitter indeed. No one likes to get the sack.
June 9th 2012 @ 11:01am
kingplaymaker said | June 9th 2012 @ 11:01am | Report comment
nos Mckenzie’s gameplan was very much just the up and under back then, but since radically evolved to far more running at the Reds. A big and curious transformation.
June 9th 2012 @ 5:39pm
Ben S said | June 9th 2012 @ 5:39pm | Report comment
Again, not true – McKenzie had Stade playing some very good running rugby, hence the amounts of points scored during his tenure. The real issue was defensive frailties.
June 12th 2012 @ 8:08am
Crockycrocky said | June 12th 2012 @ 8:08am | Report comment
Agree fully Will that the players need to shoulder some responsibility. Cheika, Johnson and Friend have actually all done well with their respective ‘no name’ teams in the Northern Hemisphere. And Jake Whites no nonsense style way with the Brumbies seems to be working well this season with a whole lot of ‘no name’ fresh faces. Even he though had troubles with his older ‘more experienced’ players back in SA. Agree that the coaches have a role to play with the team culture but they can only do so much if the ‘stars’ won’t buy in or support.
June 9th 2012 @ 8:01am
SandBox said | June 9th 2012 @ 8:01am | Report comment
I agree that there is no obvious better choice, but we do deserve better than five years of excuses. I actually believed that Eddie was building for something, and it didn’t happen. All he was good for was to betray us to the Yarpies. I see the same pattern of excuses from this guy, except he may have two RWC of excuses before we work it out
June 9th 2012 @ 9:20am
ohtani's jacket said | June 9th 2012 @ 9:20am | Report comment
You explained why they hired Robbie Deans, but you sure as heck didn’t explain why they should keep him. If Deans can’t make a difference then what’s the point in keeping him? If his coaching had been excellent then you could blame the players but his coaching is rubbish.
June 9th 2012 @ 9:34am
Sage said | June 9th 2012 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Sad but true OJ although rubbish is a bit harsh. I’d say underwhelming and disappointing
June 9th 2012 @ 10:06am
Nick said | June 9th 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Yep. Perfect description. Strangely disjointed and directionless too but decidedly underwhelming and disappointing is a great call.
June 9th 2012 @ 11:09am
El Gamba said | June 9th 2012 @ 11:09am | Report comment
Some good points in the article and the response is interesting, as always on the Roar!
If I was a bookie, Scotland would’ve been favourite on Tuesday and the Welsh favourites for at least tonight’s game. Any disagreement to this assumes reputation and a rating system given too much credit.
Those Australians who disagree and are looking for a scapegoat, be it coach or players, need to take a step back and apply some perspective. Also, give it a few games so that we can actually see where the Wallabies are at.
Those Kiwi’s who disagree probably need to examine their motives as to why they care about the Wallabies. Mostly the vitriol levelled at Deans by this quarter reeks of sour grapes that he left the shaky isles at all. That Australians don’t like having a foreign coach is spouted regularly, it is often the kiwi’s pushing this line. I’d be very interested in how many of these kiwi experts, so quick to get on these forums and lay in their ten cents worth about the woes of Australian rugby, actually live in NZ – and why they don’t!
I for one will be at Suncorp tonight, wearing gold and supporting MY team through thick and thin. Go boys.