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Coach Robbie Deans has hailed “freak” David Pocock as the best ruck warrior he’s seen and also reserved special praise for his captaincy to help redeem the Wallabies.
Not even All Blacks skipper Richie McCaw, who Deans coached for eight years at the Crusaders, ranks above Pocock as a ball-scavenger in the New Zealander’s eyes after Pocock dominated the crucial breakdown contest in Saturday night’s 27-19 first Test win over Wales.
Australia’s display was in stark contrast to Tuesday night’s humiliating 9-6 loss to Scotland and it was at the tackle area where they set up the three-tries-to-one victory at Suncorp Stadium.
While halfback Will Genia was a deserved man-of-the-match, Deans marvelled at Pocock’s strength and ability to attack the ball under heavy opposition at the breakdown.
Asked whether he’d ever seen anyone as effective, Deans said: “No, no, absolutely not.
“He is a physical freak. He has such a low centre of gravity, he’s got such strength and he’s quick and he’s smart.
“So he gets into good position and he claims good position. He’s nigh impossible to move and he gets the benefit of that.”
What was just as impressive for Deans was his new captain’s leadership after being thrown into the role a week before the poorly-scheduled Scotland Test due to incumbent James Horwill’s hamstring injury.
“It was a baptism of fire,” Deans said, admitting it could have torched a lesser man.
“It didn’t. He got better. He got stronger.
“He’s really grown from a leadership perspective, just from stuff that he’s had at the Western Force. You can see he’s calmer, he’s clearer.”
It was one of four victories by southern hemisphere nations over northern rivals on a good weekend for Rugby Championship sides at home to Six Nations outfits.
McCaw’s All Blacks thumped Ireland 42-10, South Africa outmuscled England 22-17 and Argentina overran Italy 37-22.
From the outset in Brisbane, the Wallabies showed more speed and intensity to recycle quick ball and also stifle and steal that of a Welsh outfit desperate to end a 43-year drought Down Under.
Wales skipper and Pocock’s No.7 rival Sam Warburton admitted it was the fastest first-half he’d ever played and acknowledged the Red Dragons need to do more to nullify the Australian back-row.
The Six Nations champions suffered for a lack of match practice but their second-half fightback, from 20-6 down to be a point behind with 17 minutes left, has the Wallabies aware they’ll be tougher in the second Test in Melbourne.
“If anything we’ve awoken a beast,” said rising flanker Michael Hooper, who came off the bench to make a significant impact in tandem with Pocock.
“I’ve got no doubt they’ll be firing this week.”
The Wallabies have prop Sekope Kepu in doubt with a hand injury which could open the door for Brumbies tight-head Dan Palmer to start at Etihad Stadium following his impressive debut against the Scots.
© AAP 2013
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June 11th 2012 @ 8:19am
The Bone said | June 11th 2012 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Big call Dingo
June 11th 2012 @ 9:18pm
The Werewolf said | June 11th 2012 @ 9:18pm | Report comment
Not really that big a call to say one is the best at something that is relatively knew to the world of rugby.
You see opensides flankers have up until the professional era been a different breed and played the game completely differently to the likes of George Smith and Richie MCaw and now their evolutionary superior David Pocock.
The likes of Michael Jones, Simon Poidevin, David Wilson etc played at a time where the breakdown pilfering was far less a significant thing to be able to do. The laws were different for starters and due to amateurism and the progression into the professional era, phase play was far less attainable and so first phase play from set piece was King. Therefore the no 7′s main role was to simply make the first tackle in the first phase and allow others to ruck over. The no 7 hardly ever pilfered ball.
These days there is a great deal more phase play and this becomes evident at each world cup when the IRB really pays attention and compares data from previous tournaments. Indeed after last years world cup they released their findings with the main thing to come out that in each world cup since 1995 there has been a huge increase in the amount of recycled ball and therefore the amount of time the ball is actually in play. We are in the age of the breakdown and phase play being King to everything. The no of set pieces has gradually been drastically reduced as a result and hence first phase play is no longer what rules.
Through necessity no 7′s have had to evolve and have now become a completely different species. David Pocock is now the genetic apex of this evolution. He does not make as high a proportion of tackles as his ancestors, instead he focuses on choosing his time to strike carefully in order to do the most important thing on the modern rugby field ie to pilfer. He is the best at it and if that means he doesn’t make as many tackles or carries as McCaw than so be it. It is a small price to pay to have the games most potent apex predator.
June 12th 2012 @ 2:35am
all7days said | June 12th 2012 @ 2:35am | Report comment
Agree the position evolves. Disagree pilfering is the most important thing. In the modern game it seems continuaty of possession is more important. That’s where Pocock must improve. He’s a good player, he just needs to add some other dimensions to the one he does well.
June 12th 2012 @ 2:55am
Breakdown said | June 12th 2012 @ 2:55am | Report comment
And you need a pilferer to gain the possession in the first place!
Great comment the werewolf. This is the first time in the game that no 7′s are kings of the game. Even more so than no 10′s now. Have you not noticed all7days that the 3 new captains of Wales, England and Australia are their pilfering 22/23 year old no 7′s. Get with the times buddy. Pocock and these guys are the prototype of the future no 7 and they have it all, already.
June 12th 2012 @ 5:14am
all7days said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:14am | Report comment
You don’t NEED a pilferer… Who told you that lie?
See how many possession changes happen during a game directly from someone pilfering as opposed to something else…
Pocock may one day be the best, but he isn’t yet. As shown the last time he played the ABs.
I hope he improves.
It’ll be good to have a strong Wallaby side again.
June 12th 2012 @ 7:59am
Marky mark said | June 12th 2012 @ 7:59am | Report comment
Pococks influence on games is bigger than any other player. If not pilfering he is slowing the ball down which is an added advantage to having a pilferer. When he plays well he wins games on his own ie the QF against south Africa. We lost that match in every way except we had pocock and they didn’t. If he has an off game ie the semi against AB’S we lose. It’s that simple. If he doesnt play ie Samoa, Ireland we lose.
The pilferiing no 7 is now more important than any other player on the field..
June 12th 2012 @ 8:09am
mania said | June 12th 2012 @ 8:09am | Report comment
MM – didnt pocock play the scotland game?
but agree, pocock is a major contributor. if he has an off day then thats a huge portion missing
all7 – u def need a pilferer. it stops momnetum and oppn building phases
June 12th 2012 @ 10:05am
all7days said | June 12th 2012 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Yes i agree you need one. But it isn’t needed as the sole skill to grab possession as stated by Breakdown above.
I think the back row as a whole is needed and “Pilfering” is a part of that. Saying they are the most important player just isn’t correct.
Genia has more influence than Pocock and he doesn’t pilfer at all.
Blowing out rucks and effecting the speed of ball on defence and offence. Quick recycle to take the inside defenders away.
These things McCaw is better at. Not to mention
- Link play and ref work.
- Leadership and decision making
- Tackling
Pocock may get there. He just has a while.
June 12th 2012 @ 5:23pm
The Werewolf said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:23pm | Report comment
I am confused because in one post you said you don’t need one and now you say you do?
Pocock had more influence on the game against Wales than Genia. It is just that Genia’s running with ball in hand is more obvious and Pocock’s more subtle. If someone watched rugby for the first time they might not even notice Pocock’s deeds but that doesn’t make them less vital.
Pocock is without peer and has been since the world cup at test level. His style is now the benchmark for no 7′s. Genia’s performance was not far behind but he needs to put some more performances like that consistently at test level. He was poor at the world cup for instance.
June 12th 2012 @ 5:26pm
Kane said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:26pm | Report comment
I disagree he is without peer at the moment. He has had a terrible Super tournament only coming right in the last few games and then you seem to forget how terrible he was on Tuesday? Surely someone without peer at the moment is good in back to back games
June 12th 2012 @ 5:29pm
The Werewolf said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
Kane I must say that Pocock gave 100% against Scotland. I doubt you’ll find any expert that would say he was terrible on tuesday.
June 12th 2012 @ 5:32pm
Kane said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
Sorry I thought you meant that Genia wasn’t far of being without peer, I missed your last sentence about his consistency which I hammered home
June 12th 2012 @ 6:03pm
The Werewolf said | June 12th 2012 @ 6:03pm | Report comment
So we agree. Sorry!
June 12th 2012 @ 6:25pm
The Werewolf said | June 12th 2012 @ 6:25pm | Report comment
I rate your point about the captains all of a sudden all being young pilfering no 7′s.
McCaw and Dusatoir are also their countries captains. So that’s at least 5 major nation’s skippers that are now opensides. Indeed the no 7 is now more important than ever before.
June 12th 2012 @ 8:37pm
all7days said | June 12th 2012 @ 8:37pm | Report comment
He said you need a pilferer to get possession. I said you don’t.. Clear now? You can read the previous comments if you need clarification…
June 12th 2012 @ 10:31am
Sam Taulelei said | June 12th 2012 @ 10:31am | Report comment
Great post.
The breakdown has changed significantly over the years and even for someone like McCaw he’s had to adapt and relies less on his foraging work now.
McCaw is still an effective 7 and very influential player but Pocock is the best in the world at stealing the ball at the breakdown and may only be bettered by his fellow countrymen Gill and Hooper.
June 11th 2012 @ 8:31am
Tumble Hill said | June 11th 2012 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Of course he rates David Pocock as the best ever. He isnt going to come out and say he thinks McCaw is better is he.
June 11th 2012 @ 8:58am
Ash said | June 11th 2012 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Why wouldn’t he? Why is it that no one can say that players that aren’t All Blacks are the best ever at something?
June 11th 2012 @ 9:17am
Tumble Hill said | June 11th 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Because he is under huge pressure from the Australian public. Pocock is a fantastic player dont get me wrong but lets judge him after hes played 100+ tests.
June 11th 2012 @ 9:17am
ohtani's jacket said | June 11th 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Pocock’s the only reason Deans still has a job so you’d hope he could string a coherent sentence or two together.
June 11th 2012 @ 8:34am
Uncle Argyle said | June 11th 2012 @ 8:34am | Report comment
If I were George Smith I would feel a little peeved this morning…
June 11th 2012 @ 10:00am
stillmissit said | June 11th 2012 @ 10:00am | Report comment
True Uncle Argyle: George was a great 7 and will be remembered as such. Pocock could go on to be one of a handful of superstars Australia has produced, he is at the early stages at the moment but we all recognise greatness when we see it. Lets hope he has a long career and injury doesn’t cut it short.
June 11th 2012 @ 10:47am
Uncle Argyle said | June 11th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Yeh,
whilst I would never put Phil Waugh in that company, Australia has had some very good number 7′s over the years who each have been good scavengers at the break down, good link players or a combination of both. David Wilson, Simon Poidiven, Jeff Miller spring to mind. I never saw him play but Greg Davis is well respected by those of that era.
Pocock is an awsome talent and I would have him in my team over Richie McCaw anyday. I am finding harder and harder to like Richie McCaw as he ‘demands’ respect but is happy to disrspect the rules of the game and rack it up to gamesmanship.Your not bigger than the game Richie!
With Michael Hooper & Liam Gill in the bck ground I expect Pocock to raise it another level. As for New Zeland I like the look of Sam Kane and a young Wellingtonian who gets a start off te bench for the Highlanders called Filgengester or similar. Jack Lam is no slouch and Luke Briad is a complete 7. Looks like Bledisloe Rugby will have some good 7′s running around for the next 10 years or so.
June 11th 2012 @ 1:11pm
Moaman said | June 11th 2012 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
Scott Fuglistaller is the Wellingtonian you are after,Uncle.Personally I like Lam more atm.
June 11th 2012 @ 2:13pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 11th 2012 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
Thanks Moaman,
do you rate him though?
June 11th 2012 @ 2:18pm
Tumble Hill said | June 11th 2012 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
Id seen him play a couple of Wellington Premier club rugby games before being called into the Highlanders Squad. I dont think hes anything special but a decent backup/ITM cup player.
June 11th 2012 @ 2:40pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 11th 2012 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
Thanks TH,
I thought he handled himself quiet well in the few times ive seen him but am happy to be guided by the locals on that one. Any other prmising 7′s in the wings over there?
June 11th 2012 @ 2:46pm
Tumble Hill said | June 11th 2012 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
Not so much in Wellington. Karl Lowe is ok but very injury prone. Jack lam looks pretty good but i doubt he will get much furthur than the Canes. Sam Cane looks as though hes the next cab of the rank after McCaw but im undecided on him yet… Its looking a little thin if you ask me. Plenty of good players but none outstanding
June 11th 2012 @ 3:06pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 11th 2012 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
Matt Todd?
I am sure you blokes have got one hidden away over there. When Richie does hang up the boots it will be like a Warne or McGrath retiring from our cricket team. You don’t replace these types you just learn to get along without them.
June 11th 2012 @ 11:06pm
stillmatic1 said | June 11th 2012 @ 11:06pm | Report comment
and pocock doesnt disrespect the rules of the game either, uncle!! geesh, you were looking good up until that point. i almost forgot all the times joubert was telling a certain number 7 to get away from it on saturday!!
June 12th 2012 @ 2:13am
Lorry said | June 12th 2012 @ 2:13am | Report comment
I think Phil Waugh is absolutely up there with Smith, McCaw and Wilson..
Mccaw and Smith never got on top of Waugh when they played against each other.
He may have not been as complete a player as Smith and McCaw (and nor is Pocock for that matter, at least not yet), but Waugh was a king at the ruck.
There has been no-one else built like him, perfect for that job
June 11th 2012 @ 4:43pm
wallaby fan said | June 11th 2012 @ 4:43pm | Report comment
I don’t think he will. I saw Smith interviewed last year and he said he retired because he could not compete with Pocock’s ‘physical attributes’. In other words he had met his match and gracefully stepped aside.
Pocock is already a better pilferer than McCaw and Smith and he is a better athlete. Mccaw and Smith at their peak had better all round games in that Mccaw has a better carrying game and Smith had a bit more x factor, but Pocock is still developing.
But IMHO Mcaw is past it so at the moment Pocock has no peer and is the best no 7 in world rugby. No doubt the rate he is going he is destined to go down as the best wallaby no 7 ever and perhaps the best ever in world rugby. Its early days yet though.
June 11th 2012 @ 6:31pm
Kuruki said | June 11th 2012 @ 6:31pm | Report comment
You may want to check the stats buddy, and if you dont like stats just check the results. There is only one area Pocock is ahead of McCaw and that is at the breakdown turning over possession. Deans is not hailing Pocock as the best number 7 ever, he is talking about his work over the ball at the breakdown. As far as every other facet of the game McCaw is still out-performing Pocock. His captaincy is miles ahead, Pocock could not even inspire his men against Scotland, McCaw won a World cup on one leg. McCaw is busier around the paddock then Pocock, he supports the ball carrier more. He links more. He receives the ball from kickoffs more then any other 7 in the game. Pocock is the strongest body over the ball in the game, but 9 out of 10 coaches would pick McCaw over Pocock.
June 11th 2012 @ 9:27am
Richie Mccaw said | June 11th 2012 @ 9:27am | Report comment
He might have a low centre of gravity but effecting turnovers is more than just that. Anticipation and timing in most cases beat anything else and these are the hallmarks of the All Black captain. But in saying that, he was honest enough not to say that Pocock is the best no.7 in the game, just shows he hasn’t become a full bloodied Aussie yet who claims outrageous statements to fool the uneducated public.
June 11th 2012 @ 9:43am
Sage said | June 11th 2012 @ 9:43am | Report comment
Love it. He said he’s a freak and “the best ruck warrior he’s seen”. I reckon that comment probably trumps “in the game at the moment wouldn’t you say Richie ? ‘Best you’ve seen’ would also include currently, usually. But I am probably one of your uneducated public. For Robbie to state this and you to then somehow change the meaning of his words some would say is rather an outrageous statement even for a non full bloodied Aussie……………….
June 11th 2012 @ 10:25am
Richie Mccaw said | June 11th 2012 @ 10:25am | Report comment
Sage, you missed my point. The articles title is “Deans hails Pocock as best ever”, which is misleading. Deans is only talking about 1 facet of open-side flanker play that he perceives Pocock is the best. My point is to expand on what was said in the article, or rather what was not said so that casual fans aren’t fooled. I agree Pocock may be the “best” at standing over a tackled opponent trying to get the ball and being hard to remove but what should have been added was the other ways that make an “effective” turnover in which he is not the “best” such as anticipation and timing. I just offered another side to the same coin in regards to being an effective turnover specialist. In my opinion they almost cancel each other out which is great for us fans when looking forward to the Rugby Championship this year. I guess I just wished that the interviewer that interviewed Deans asked more questions so that Deans can reveal who he thinks is the “best” open-side flanker with all skill sets combined.
June 11th 2012 @ 11:39am
Sage said | June 11th 2012 @ 11:39am | Report comment
Fair enough Richie, point taken. Headline is a bit misleading. You’d have to accept though that he said best at the ruck which is still very high praise and a big part of a 7′s game. I agee with you that the interviewer could have asked a bit more but if he had said Pocock was “best” it would only mean this – to use your own words – “to say that Pocock is the best no.7 in the game, just shows he hasn’t become a full bloodied Aussie yet who claims outrageous statements to fool the uneducated public”. No ?
June 11th 2012 @ 11:46am
Richie McCaw said | June 11th 2012 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Maybe I was a bit sharp with that comment. Just imagine the debate if he did say Pocock was the best open-side overall, would’ve been an entertaining day that’s for sure.
June 11th 2012 @ 1:31pm
Sage said | June 11th 2012 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
Yes it would ! What better thing to do on Liz’s birthday though hey.
June 11th 2012 @ 9:28am
Baybum said | June 11th 2012 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Smith left as he could see writing on the wall….pocock is a freak….wish he was English….
June 11th 2012 @ 9:31am
Sage said | June 11th 2012 @ 9:31am | Report comment
Big call from the man more in a position to do so than any other person. No offense Tumble but I think I’ll take Robbies opinion over yours. He hasn’t struck me to date as someone who is overly effusive when it comes to his players. From a Kiwi, who nurtured McCaw and respects him emmensely, these comments are extremely high priase indeed. I agree with you too Uncle but only because George’s running game was superior to Pococks but we’ll see how that develops too over the rest of his career. One thing for an Aussie to say this but from such a well respected Cantabrian, how galling !!
June 11th 2012 @ 9:45am
ohtani's jacket said | June 11th 2012 @ 9:45am | Report comment
It’s really not that contentious. Pocock is better over the ball than McCaw ever was. I think they’re slightly different players as Richie pilfered a lot of his ball as the tackler whereas Pocock is often the arriving player but Richie delivered a World Cup after 20 years and is one of the 5 best All Blacks ever. Nothing to be galled over.
June 11th 2012 @ 10:21am
Sage said | June 11th 2012 @ 10:21am | Report comment
Not much to disagree with there OJ, Pocock is better over the ball and better at the ruck generally. Richie is a top 5 five AB. But my comments were more in relation to previous posters excuses or explanations of what Robbie ‘really’ meant.
June 11th 2012 @ 10:44am
Jerry said | June 11th 2012 @ 10:44am | Report comment
It’s impossible to say as we don’t actually know what the question was.
“Deans marvelled at Pocock’s strength and ability to attack the ball under heavy opposition at the breakdown.
Asked whether he’d ever seen anyone as effective, Deans said: “No, no, absolutely not.”
You’d imagine it was referring to technique over the ball, which I’d concede Pocock is currently the best, if not the best ever. You could argue that, like McCaw, he pushes the boundaries considerably when doing this (in that often he isn’t truly supporting his own bodyweight) but that’s all part of the technique, so more power to him. I don’t really have any problem with what Deans has said there.
June 11th 2012 @ 11:33am
Kane said | June 11th 2012 @ 11:33am | Report comment
He does seem to have boots on his chest a lot.
June 11th 2012 @ 6:11pm
Justin2 said | June 11th 2012 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
Richie winning a WC doesnt make him a better or worse player. Plenty of just average players have WC medals…
June 11th 2012 @ 6:34pm
Jerry said | June 11th 2012 @ 6:34pm | Report comment
Yeah, they have and it’s cause they’ve been in teams with outstanding players like Richie McCaw, John Eales, Martin Johnson etc.
June 11th 2012 @ 6:41pm
Justin2 said | June 11th 2012 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
My point being Jerry that it doesnt make them suddenly come out and score more tries, make more tackles or steals because they have a medal at home on the mantle.
Having a WC medal is irrelevant when talking about an individuals standing in the game IMO.
June 11th 2012 @ 6:52pm
Jerry said | June 11th 2012 @ 6:52pm | Report comment
Obviously it doesn’t improve them as a player in the future, but as we AB fans have heard time and time again, the RWC is the ultimate stage and if a player can perform and excel at that level it means a lot.
And, given Deans was saying Pocock was the best in the history of the game (at one particular part of the game), I don’t think it’s unreasonable for OJ to be mentioning something that happened last season as part of the discussion.
June 11th 2012 @ 6:41pm
Kuruki said | June 11th 2012 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
Yes but did they Captain there team ? with a fractured foot? probably not. Genia was the leader on the weekend for the Wallabies he was the one doing all the talking, and he carried that team on his shoulders. Deans is just trying to justify his captain selection by praising Pocock when clearly Genia was the true leader on Saturday.
June 11th 2012 @ 6:44pm
ohtani's jacket said | June 11th 2012 @ 6:44pm | Report comment
My point is it doesn’t really matter whether Robbie Deans thinks David Pocock is a better fetcher than Richie McCaw. Richie McCaw has had much bigger fish to fry than that and nobody in NZ in another twenty years is going to care who Robbie Deans thought was better and whether Australians thought Richie cheated. His legacy is sealed.
June 11th 2012 @ 9:51am
Tumble Hill said | June 11th 2012 @ 9:51am | Report comment
No offence taken Sage as im not a head coach of a National Rugby team. Being an one-eyed AB’s supporter naturally I am in the McCaw corner. Although I do appreciate Pococks ability, I dont think he is better than McCaw was in his prime and thats my opinion.
June 11th 2012 @ 11:05am
Uncle Argyle said | June 11th 2012 @ 11:05am | Report comment
and that is fair enough to TH, after all this is an opinion based website and different opinions should be respected. You obviously have an arguement. Whilst I would go with Pocock and think it an ‘eye brow raising comment by Robbie I then would ask Robbie the retospective question for the 2011 RWC selection of Ben McCalman as back up to Pocock. Clearly McCalman has none of the skills Pockock has and that selection should be considered foolish, he is quite happy to point out who the best 7 is however and give him a No 8 as back up is mind boggling.
Mate I would have taken Michael Jones over Richie anyday as well. McCaw has got away with blue murder in his day. None more evident than the 2011 RWC final against France.
June 11th 2012 @ 11:34am
Kane said | June 11th 2012 @ 11:34am | Report comment
Can you please be a bit more specific about the ‘blue murder’ that he got away with? If anything what he has got away with is no worse than what Pocock has gotten away with.
June 11th 2012 @ 11:57am
Uncle Argyle said | June 11th 2012 @ 11:57am | Report comment
Kane,
In the opening stages of the game there is a ruck situation, Richie goes off his feet lies all over the place, makes no attempt to roll away. All in front of the ref. Set the tone for the match.
3N in Brisbane. It was either Conrad or Ma’a scores running into gaping hole.Look back Rihcie is holding Pocock back preventing him from taking his place in the line.
Red’s v Saders in C’Church this year. Richie sheppards Gill from getting a tackle at Carter
There is a Pommie journo who lives in New Zeland. Wrote an article on how the All Blacks cheat. McCaw features.
When I think back at the 1987 All Black team I can’t recall any thought of the Blacks being cheats.
1991 – Australia was never accused of being cheats
1995 – South Africa – Well they poisioned you lot so you could say NZ were cheated.
1999 – Australia never accused of cheating
2003 – Engalnd not accused of cheating
2007 -South Africa -If boring was cheating they would be cheats.
2011 – All Blacks – They were the best team in the comp, but not the best team in the final. The cheating tactics of the All Blacks had been long an issue before the world cup.
Please look into more there are rugby people all over the planet who know Richie McCaw is a cheat.
June 11th 2012 @ 4:30pm
ohtani's jacket said | June 11th 2012 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
Every single one of those teams you mentioned had players who engaged in the dark arts. They probably wouldn’t have gone too far if they hadn’t. Every side needs players who take care of the dirty work. You mentioned the ’87 All Blacks. This was from their semi against Wales:
Can you imagine the outcry if that happened in the modern game?
Your examples of Richie holding a player back or shepherding are pretty weak. That sort of thing goes on in every test. You can’t possibily think that Wallabies players don’t engage in that sort of thing. There was a fair bit of jersey pulling from the Irish on the weekend, but you don’t see anyone making a song and dance about it.
June 11th 2012 @ 5:09pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 11th 2012 @ 5:09pm | Report comment
So Buck punched a player who was not looking at him. Big deal, not one of Bucks finest moments I would suggest. OJ, what the hell does this have to do with persistent infringing? There is big difference between a cheap shot and the ‘dark arts’ of infringement.
June 11th 2012 @ 6:28pm
ohtani's jacket said | June 11th 2012 @ 6:28pm | Report comment
Buck carried on that way in every test against any slight real or imagined and he was an All Black great for it. That ’87 pack had Fitzpatrick and the Whetton brothers as well as other Auckland players. No side was more infamous in those days than Auckland. What Sean Fitzpatrick doesn’t know about the dark arts isn’t worth knowing. And that French side they played was notoriously dirty. What’s holding back a player compared to a ripped scrotum?
June 12th 2012 @ 7:26am
Darwin Stubbie said | June 12th 2012 @ 7:26am | Report comment
Classic – to say that the England ’03 pack were never accused of disrupting and slowing down of the opposition ball is re-writing history – they were masters at it …. They’re probably the starting point upon which McCaw started his learning curve in the way he plays
June 11th 2012 @ 11:42am
Tumble Hill said | June 11th 2012 @ 11:42am | Report comment
I never saw Michael Jones play – The downside to being born in the late 1980s haha. I have seen replays and highlights and know he was an amazing player but its hard for me to compare someone I grew up watching to someone I never saw play.
Who would you have played in the game against Ireland in place of Pocock?
June 11th 2012 @ 12:03pm
ianmac said | June 11th 2012 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
I saw Greg Davis play. Only Pocock compares, and maybe Hooper in time.
June 11th 2012 @ 12:06pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 11th 2012 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
Do tell. When and where I would be keen to hear more about him?
June 11th 2012 @ 12:03pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 11th 2012 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
Its a tough one becuase the guy I wook have picked was back in Australia, Beau Robinson.
However if I had to pick a squad Member I would have played Sai’a Fainga’a who is quick enough around the park and is a pest at the break down but in reality he is a poor mans 7. I thought McCalman did his best but was lucky to be in our squad.
Michael Jones was an amzing player. He refused to play on Sunday’s due to his faith and I admire that. I think he ended up with 40 odd tests. I would like to think he would have played at least 60 if he played on Sundays.
The game has changed between the Jones – McCaw era but for me Jones could jump in line-outs before lifting, could pilfer the ball and link with the backs. A joy to watch, even for an Australian. Richie McCaw has not been a joy to watch as there has long been a by ‘?’ over the legality of his play. Jones never drew that attention on himself.
June 11th 2012 @ 12:22pm
Tumble Hill said | June 11th 2012 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
Surely this cheating dosnt go un-noticed by the irb? Do you think there is an unspoken bond between referees and Richie McCaw? that allows him to cheat without getting penalised? The guy is the perfect example of playing to the whistle.
June 11th 2012 @ 12:31pm
mania said | June 11th 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
uncleArgyle – richie is a master and doesnt cheat anywhere near enough. is he as bad as seanFitzpatrick? bakkiesBotha? justinHarris, richardLoe, schalkBurger, troyFlavell?
how can u be offended by richies cheating when there’s worse cheaters around? or do only ever see richies cheating and for go all the others? richie may not be pure white driven snow but how many players are?
mccaw and michaelJones are two totally different 7′s from totally different era’s. but imho jones was the better athelete and richie the better rugby player. as much as i admired mJones ; richie has played for longer and stayed at the top level of competition for longer and the majority as the captain
June 11th 2012 @ 1:00pm
falcore said | June 11th 2012 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
mania, “richie is a master and doesnt cheat anywhere near enough. is he as bad as … schalkBurger?
Whoa there, I thought burger was just a freak specimen with a huge motor and aggression to match, only to find out he cheated to get those things… Damn
June 12th 2012 @ 5:34am
mania said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:34am | Report comment
falcore – i was referring to scalks eye gouging incident. but dont get me wrong i’m not so sensitive and rate schalk as one of the best players to come out of SA.the eye gouging incident was a brain explosion and in general he’s just a hard a55
June 11th 2012 @ 12:34pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 11th 2012 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
TH,
In response to your McCaw/IRB statement – I recall circa 1996/97 there was a Bledisloe in Christchurch. Ed Morrison was the ref. Sean Fitzpatrick had him eating out of him hand. There ref was calling him ‘Sean’ and calling our bloke ‘Australian Captian’. Fitzpatick was a huge figure in the game and Morrison had a man crush on him that game. Get my point.
The ref can only be in one place at any one time. The All Blacks master this art. They linger in your defencive line for players to run at, or hold back players, or stand there blocking players and wait to be run on side with out retreating.
The IRB is aware of it but the ref is human and must follow the ball. Its very hard to police but put it on the box and watch it. Objectivly. I am not bashing the All Blacks becuase I am anti-kiwi. Iam not. What I am against is systematic cheating which the All Balcks of the past several years have mastered and profited from.
June 11th 2012 @ 12:36pm
mania said | June 11th 2012 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
Uncle Argyle – really because it sounds like sour grapes and conspiracy theorist paranoia. yes allBlacks win because they master this art. not because they have a better executed gameplan or team work.
June 11th 2012 @ 1:07pm
falcore said | June 11th 2012 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
+1
Big fan of McCaw, has the skills of a tyro in the body of a number 8 almost. But I believe he is sometimes afforded latitude based on perceived skills.
I think he’s pretty well respected in Aus and SA. Spend a bit of time with English rugby fans though, he is reviled up there, the hate is strong with those ones…
June 11th 2012 @ 1:57pm
Darwin Stubbie said | June 11th 2012 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
Sounding a bit too much X files to me … If you read enough Jones, Reason or Dwyer – you’ll believe that whole system is warped in NZs favor … McCaw hasn’t survived playing a decade of top rugby accumulating over a 100 caps and reffed by every international referee under sun because of some grand conspiracy … He is simply one of the very best to pull on a pair of boots – the problem is opposition fans can’t stand it so they’d rather believe ‘analysis’ put out by the likes of Green & Gold because it fits their perception
June 11th 2012 @ 6:40pm
ohtani's jacket said | June 11th 2012 @ 6:40pm | Report comment
Do you honestly believe that the Wallabies or the Reds last year don’t do these things? Your three leading coaches in Australia, Robbie Deans, Ewen McKenzie and Jake White, have all coached sides who profited from cheating (by your definition.)
June 11th 2012 @ 9:41am
Jerry said | June 11th 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
Pocock is the best poacher going at the moment, though I’m not sure I’d rank him above George Smith in that area. I think both of them are/were better at that aspect of the game than McCaw even in his prime. However, best fetcher doesn’t mean best openside.
June 11th 2012 @ 9:57am
Jerry said | June 11th 2012 @ 9:57am | Report comment
Also, can I just say “Ruck Warrior” sounds like a great name for a film.
In a post-apocalyptic setting, (Hamilton) following a global war (the reaction to Joubert’s refereeing performance in the RWC final) and the collapse of civilization (Ted leaving) barbaric anarchy has become the world’s everyday law. Richie McCaw, traumatised by the death of his family (or Dan Carter’s groin injury), roams the pitch in a scarred, black supercharged V-8 Pursuit Special (well, a tight fitting Adidas jersey) scavenging for food and petrol (or the ball) which is now a very precious commodity.
June 11th 2012 @ 1:01pm
Sprigs said | June 11th 2012 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
Well pitched, Jerry.
Wellywood, start auditioning now. Would be great to see a good Aussie (Chris Hemsworth?) playing Richie’s role.
If Hamilton is the last place left on earth for humans , the final scene should be everybody drinking the poisoned orange drink to make it full time.
June 11th 2012 @ 1:22pm
Moaman said | June 11th 2012 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
” In a post-apocalyptic setting, (Hamilton) ”
June 16th 2012 @ 3:48am
Des said | June 16th 2012 @ 3:48am | Report comment
It must be an Aussie thing…. after a game the Wallabies win, they make a claim that so and so is the best in the world! That’s why u lost the world cup semi because you focus on stuff that is irrelevant to the actual game… where was pocock and genia in WC semi-final game? U are gonna be whipped in the four-nations tournament….BIGTIME!!!!
June 11th 2012 @ 9:59am
nickoldschool said | June 11th 2012 @ 9:59am | Report comment
This means Horwill wont take the captaincy back. fair enough
June 11th 2012 @ 10:13am
Shungmao said | June 11th 2012 @ 10:13am | Report comment
NOS,
Think you could be right, but what I keep seeing is outside the physical pointing at the posts to take a penalty shot and the C on the team sheet’ the reality is Genia is running the team, he does all the pre/during and post game chat. To be honest as long as they keep winning I don’t care who captain is……
June 11th 2012 @ 11:02am
nickoldschool said | June 11th 2012 @ 11:02am | Report comment
Agree Shungmao, Genia is the vocal leader of the team and when he performs like that he also leads by example (like Pocock). Horwill is neither imo.
Also felt Hooper brought a lot of energy when he came in. good signs
June 11th 2012 @ 1:24pm
Cattledog said | June 11th 2012 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
NOS and Shungmao, please articulate exactly what Horwill has done to lose the captaincy. You really think Pocock’s captaincy in the Scotland game was solid? One fair effort out of two’s a pretty poor start yet you two are predicting Horwill won’t retain the captaincy on his return from injury. Seems logic isn’t part of your repertoire.
June 11th 2012 @ 10:07am
all7days said | June 11th 2012 @ 10:07am | Report comment
If only Openside required that one skill…