Wallabies announced unchanged lineup for second Test vs Wales
By The Roar, 12 Jun 2012
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Wallabies coach Robbie Deans. AAP Image/Dave Hunt
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An unchanged Wallabies lineup will face the Welsh in the second Wales Tour Test in Melbourne on Saturday.
The Wallabies fought out a close 27 – 19 win over Wales in Brisbane last Saturday, with only prop Sekope Kepu in injury doubt, suffering a strained tendon in his forearm during the match.
Kepu has reported fit for duty, but coach Robbie Deans is taking few chances.
“We are hopeful that ‘Keps’ will be good to go, but we do have a contingency plan in place if we need it,” Wallabies coach Robbie Deans says.
“There are five props in the group we have with us in Melbourne so we saw no need in bringing anyone extra in.”
Debutant Cooper Vuna has also been retained on the wing.
“Cooper did well, and he will have learned a lot from that experience,” said Deans.
“The pace of the game is faster than at any other level – he acknowledged that afterwards, but Cooper still had some critical involvements in Brisbane, and will be better prepared this week now that he knows what to expect.”
Deans says the continuity of the selection reflected the level of last weekend’s performance, although he acknowledged that the same would not be good enough for the return bout against the Six Nations champions.
“The Welsh will have seen a lot of opportunity in last weekend’s Test,” said Deans.
“They showed during their Six Nations campaign that they are resilient – twice winning games in the final moments.
That trait was apparent again in a 12-minute period in Brisbane when they closed from 6-20 to 19-20, to put themselves in a position to win the game after we had made the better start.”
The Welsh camp, who are this week being joined in Melbourne by their injured head coach Warren Gatland and play the Brumbies tonight at Canberra Stadium, remain confident of winning in Australia.
“That belief won’t have been altered by last Saturday night,” Deans says.
“If anything, that game – and more particularly the opportunities that they were able to create within in it – will only have hardened their resolve.”
The Wallabies team to play in the second Wales Tour Test match for the James Bevan Trophy at Etihard Stadium in Melbourne on Saturday (kick-off: 8pm AEST) is:
Adam Ashley-Cooper, Joe Tomane, Rob Horne, Pat McCabe, Digby Ioane, Berrick Barnes, Will Genia, Wycliff Palu, David Pocock (capt), Scott Higginbotham, Nathan Sharpe, Rob Simmons, Sekope Kepu, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Benn Robinson.
Reserves: Stephen Moore, Ben Alexander, Dave Dennis, Michael Hooper, Nic White, Anthony Faingaa, Mike Harris.
Match facts:
This is the 34th meeting between the two sides. Australia has won 22 of the previous Tests and Wales 10, with the 2006 clash at the Millennium Stadium drawn 29-29.
Australia has beaten Wales at its last five attempts since 2009, which has established the Wallabies’ second longest winning streak against that nation, bettered only by the nine wins Australia achieved consecutively between 1991 and 2003.
This will be the 12th Test played by the Qantas Wallabies at Etihad Stadium, with Australia having won nine and lost only two at the venue.
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June 12th 2012 @ 11:14am
formeropenside said | June 12th 2012 @ 11:14am | Report comment
Horne still playing? How many chances does he get? And Vuna should have been dropped – well, never selected in the first place – for Shipperley or Morahan.
June 12th 2012 @ 11:43am
rl said | June 12th 2012 @ 11:43am | Report comment
I assume Tomane is still unfit? Vuna was completely out of his depth defensively. Dreadful.
Horne was only slightly better. If Beale was fit and you shuffled AAC back to 13, I wouldn’t have an issue, but in the absence of that I guess keeping the winning team together is OK.
Dennis (who is a good player) is clearly not adequate backup at lock. Surely a Fardy or Jones would be a better option. Or just bite the bullet and play a 5-2 bench (Harris didn’t play after all).
June 12th 2012 @ 11:46am
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Tomane is out for 6 weeks.
THere was reports today that beale did contact training yesterday and pulled up well. So Im guessing the ARU still havent given him the all clear from the incident last thursday.
June 12th 2012 @ 10:27pm
Ruthless said | June 12th 2012 @ 10:27pm | Report comment
Giving Vuna another starting cap is a disgrace. The guy was useless last week. Compare his woeful display with the debut of Julian Savea with a trio of tries, excellent aerial skills and defence. If ARU has a hard-on for Vuna (which they must), then for christ’s sake bring him off the bench. Use a real rugby winger to start. Wallabies to lose in Melbourne because of this decision and leaving Horne at 13. Two big mistakes.
June 12th 2012 @ 5:47pm
Lindommer said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:47pm | Report comment
You continue to sound like the pigs in Animal Farm, fos: Queensland good, Waratah bad. I don’t think I’ve ever read a good word from you about a non-Red, here and elsewhere. And you complain about parochialism!
The Tahs have had one of the better packs of pigs in Super Rugby this year, and probably the best scrum. There, wear that.
June 12th 2012 @ 5:49pm
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:49pm | Report comment
“All states are equal, QLD is more equal than others.”
June 12th 2012 @ 6:07pm
murph73 said | June 12th 2012 @ 6:07pm | Report comment
Didn’t know Vuna was a Tah…
June 13th 2012 @ 9:54am
Cattledog said | June 13th 2012 @ 9:54am | Report comment
He’s just stating the obvious, Lindommer. Vuna was a non event except for a kick chase from a penalty and as for Horne, he’s a weak link that botched a certain try. However, Deans accepts mediocrity as the norm so why would we expect changes!
June 13th 2012 @ 10:52am
Mantis said | June 13th 2012 @ 10:52am | Report comment
I agree with you about the qld good waratahs bad business, but when there are 7 Tahs starting and they have been one of the worst teams in the comp, i understand where fos is coming from.
June 12th 2012 @ 6:30pm
The Werewolf said | June 12th 2012 @ 6:30pm | Report comment
If it ain’t broke…….
Hornes white line fever was pretty bad though. Does he deserve to be dropped? I’m not sure. He played well after that in defence and in kick chase. I don’t think he touched the ball again after his ‘brain explosion’ so I hope they use him a bit more in attack this game which is usually one of his strengths.
I do get the feeling he’s minding AAC’s 13 jersey until Beale comes back into fullback.
June 13th 2012 @ 9:56am
Cattledog said | June 13th 2012 @ 9:56am | Report comment
You say it ain’t broke, WW, but then go on and query Horne’s performance. If you don’t think that wasn’t broke, then like Deans, you accept mediocrity.
June 14th 2012 @ 4:19am
The Werewolf said | June 14th 2012 @ 4:19am | Report comment
We won CD. Therefore it ain’t broke.
Some players need to improve yes. You should not expect perfection. Accepting medicority has nothing to do with it. You don’t drop players for one mistake as a coach or your players stop playing for you! A bit of continuity is understandable.
Simmons though is the bigger concern. But he too deserves another shot for the same reason above.
June 12th 2012 @ 11:32am
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 11:32am | Report comment
No Beale?
Good to see kepu is fit. I like the idea of TPN battering the welsh forwards for 40-50 min then moore replacing him.
Im still not so sure about the locks combo and vuna is very lucky to be in the team but he’s a top bloke and I hope he improves he’s defence substantially.
June 12th 2012 @ 5:43pm
Lindommer said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:43pm | Report comment
The smart thing to do would be to start TPN for, say 27/28 minutes, allowing Moore to go full throttle for 10+ minutes before taking a breather. Then Moore would pick up an “injury” at about the 65 minute mark for TPN run the Taffies ragged over the last 15.
Cynical? Moi? Never.
June 13th 2012 @ 1:33am
jeznez said | June 13th 2012 @ 1:33am | Report comment
Jutsie, I’m please Kepu is fit but would rather him off the bench with Palmer starting. Was worried about the locks last week and even more so this week. The scrum was under a lot of pressure all game and Deans praising the scrum while leaving it under powered without a genuine scrummaging lock in the 22 and a backrower as the reserve in that area is worrying.
Wales will be stronger this week and we will need to lift if we want to win again, not sure we have that much improvement in this current pack to go with them without having made a few tweaks.
The backrow is the one area of the forward pack that Deans has correct in his starting trio – am not fully convinced of the bench options yet. Would prefer Ita Vaea but if he cannot convince his provincial coach then it is no surprise he cannot convince the national.
June 13th 2012 @ 11:07am
Jutsie said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Do you think the front row would problem would be sorted if the 2nd row was more balanced? But agree with you about palmer being at least on the bench.
Im happy with the starting front row and backrow but like you I think the 2nd row is a worry. How much longer can sharpie’s body hold up too? He looked out on his feet by the time he went of on saturday.
One thing I noted was despite all the claims prior to the game that the welsh are the fittest team in rugby, their pack were puffing pretty hard and could not keep up with the aussie pace. Im guessing deans is employing a similar strategy to what Mckenzie used against the bulls and stormers pack in 2010. Keep the ball in play for as long as possible, avoid breaks for lineouts etc and run the other pack of their feet so they are too buggered to dominate the set piece.
June 12th 2012 @ 11:35am
Albo said | June 12th 2012 @ 11:35am | Report comment
Agree with FOS. I’m a Horne fan and he’s still a very young guy with time to build his credentials but I still think he should be closer in at 12 if anything. But his form this year hasn’t done enough.
AAC should be 13 with Morahan or Foley at the back.
June 12th 2012 @ 11:41am
Justin2 said | June 12th 2012 @ 11:41am | Report comment
Selection continuity – a pet hate. If there are guys that under perform why keep them? If the result goes the other way then under performers get dropped. They only stay because others played very well. I cant agree with that.
A coach should always be looking to improve a side and there are numerous positions that could be improved from Saturday…
June 12th 2012 @ 11:44am
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 11:44am | Report comment
Well done Cooper Vuna for injuring George North, Wales’ best attacking player. This week try and involve yourself more instead of worrying about making mistakes: you have been chosen for this level of the game because of your outstanding attacking qualities. Remember Rob Simmons missed five tackles but wasn’t marking George North or making his debut. You, Digby, Tomane, JOC, Beale, Cooper and Genia are the only top quality attacking players in Australia so ignore the detractors who say you shouldn’t be there. If Robbie Deans can get you seven on the pitch at the same time then anything is possible. God’s speed.
June 12th 2012 @ 11:55am
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 11:55am | Report comment
Love your enthusiasm KPM, whilst I don’t think vuna should be in the team your right about the unfair amount of criticism he has copped. He missed 5 tackles, digby missed 4. Digby also dropped 2 sitters, one of which almost led to a try. I didnt see vuna drop a bomb all game despite us all prediciting he would. He also set up one the good attacking raids in the first half by taking a quick throw in.
He had a few good bustling runs up the middle, but I would like to see him back himself more in the next game and go looking for the ball like digby did.
June 12th 2012 @ 11:58am
Red Kev said | June 12th 2012 @ 11:58am | Report comment
You didn’t see him drop a bomb because at every opportunity AAC was covering his wing and Barnes was at fullback.
To my recollection (which is not to be relied upon because I wasn’t watching for kick takes at all) Vuna only caught one kick, perhaps 2.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:02pm
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
nevertheless Digby dropped two sitters and missed some straightforward tackles, yet no one (myself included) is criticising him.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:08pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Indeed Jutsie, and as far as I know it wasn’t Digby’s first cap exactly….
June 12th 2012 @ 5:12pm
The Werewolf said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
Fair comment. Digby’s hands often let him down but that’s a small price to pay for everything else he does. He is our go to guy and even Genia’s try he had a hand in by his efforts off the ball.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:39pm
sittingbison said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
I don’t know where that missed tackle stat came from because he missed three tackles in a missed single tackle that allowed the 13 (Williams??) to crab another 10-15m. I’m pretty sure I saw him flapping at at least 10 tackle situations, the only thing he got right was the chase and tackle over the sideline.
He is a defensive liability, and will be more heavily targeted from now on. I shudder to think what Dagg/Savaea/Habana et al will do to him
June 12th 2012 @ 1:18pm
B-Rock said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Vuna missed 5 of 8 tackles – a horrible completion rate (1 was deemed ineffective too)
Digby missed 4 of 8 – also a bad result for an experienced international. Digby has delivered time and time again for the WBs so the odd poor defensive game is excusable.
Both were offset by great defense from centers – Horne (8/8) and McCabe (11/13).
Other than completley blowing a try, Horne was pretty good and deserves to keep his spot this week IMO (barring KB returning, shifting AAC to 13)
Vuna has a lot of potential but is an outright liability in defense currently. Please Robbie – do not select him vs. the ABs – we would concede an extra 3 tries a game with him on the wing.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:23pm
B-Rock said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Also – Digby’s work rate was amazing –
he was involved in 10 rucks and mauls – the most on the team – not a bad effort!
He also led the team in number of runs (13) and meters gained (112)
Gotta take the good with the bad
June 12th 2012 @ 1:29pm
Red Kev said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
You can’t trust those stats.
If you examine the numbers, every ruck is credited to only 1 player per team, the “tackler” of the defensive team and the first arriving player of the team in possession (although quite how they determine that in lineout mauls I have no idea). That means they don’t credit tackle assists either.
That said, yes he did have a good work rate, being first in support 10 times means when the Wallabies were playing on his side of the field he was always running up to help.
June 12th 2012 @ 3:36pm
B-Rock said | June 12th 2012 @ 3:36pm | Report comment
Fair call – rugby stats are notoriously difficult to capture and attribute.
With things like rucks and mauls, you are right to look at this as a rough guide or relativity rather than an absolute.
June 12th 2012 @ 3:44pm
Red Kev said | June 12th 2012 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
I tried to use them last game and got schooled by someone in how inaccurate they are
June 13th 2012 @ 1:18am
jeznez said | June 13th 2012 @ 1:18am | Report comment
Red Kev – it is even less. They credit one player from the team that wins the ruck and no one else, neither a fellow team mate nor an opponent. I assume we are talking about the rugbyheaven stats that you and I had fun with last week?
Considering the rules require a player from both teams to be contesting the ball for a ruck to form to only record a person from the side winning the ball remains one of the more bizarre stat methodologies I’ve heard of.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:25pm
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
I dont see vuna being picked for the Rugby championships, we should have beale, tomane, JOC, QC and possibly mitchell back by then. He’s clearly a stop-gap/development selection.
Thanks for putting the horne stats up, everyone keeps harking back to the bombed try but I think he made up for it with a committed defensive game. He was playing against quality opposition in J. Davies too.
A lasting memory of the game was horne and Faiinga chasing down a kick like a pack of hyenas causing the tackled welsh back to concede a holding-on penalty.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:38pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
I think that’s true. Unless his defence improves significantly it would be tough to play him against better opposition. The selection here was obviously due to injuries allowing the chance for a month of development of Vuna for the future.
However, should his defence improve there will be a selection problem. The All Blacks won’t select their best wings, Argentina have none and South Africa’s are almost over the hill, so he would probably have fewer defensive challenges then than he does now.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:42pm
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
KPM a week ago you were saying the welsh backline didnt pose a threat, now ur rating their wingers above guys like savea, habana, JP pieterersen etc.
Even if his defence did improve there is no way I’d select him over a fit JOC.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:58pm
Justin2 said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
AF is getting better and better IMO.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:56pm
Justin2 said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Agree, comparing the two is embarrassing…
June 12th 2012 @ 12:02pm
AussieKiwi said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
I would add that Vuna’s chasing was first rate. There is a lot of talk about aimless kicking from the Wallabies and the Aus SF teams (and I agree with that criticism – I swear one of Genia’s kicks against Scotland actually went backwards!) but half the time the lack of chase makes the kicks look worse than they are. The Springboks and the ABs really chase and make the kick look better – Vuna has that talent too. Yes his defence was horrible but I think part of that was nerves.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:40pm
sittingbison said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
AK he might have had nerves, but he has never been able to tackle, reads the play atrociously and has not improved these facets of the game
June 12th 2012 @ 12:49pm
mania said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
KPM – has any1 thought of teaching vuna how to tackle? its a real simple technique and you just use the same one over over again for 99% of tackles. trick is to watch the hips and make sure your head lands behind the direction they’re going
June 12th 2012 @ 12:54pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
mania as I say there are very few wings in Australia with top attacking talent and even if Vuna isn’t the finished article yet, as one of the rare possessors of this talent he must be investigated. It’s not New Zealand where there are endless wings to choose from.
June 13th 2012 @ 1:57am
IronAwe said | June 13th 2012 @ 1:57am | Report comment
A bigger problem for Vuna is not the tackling, but his positioning in defense and his reading the play in front of him which needs work.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:20pm
Comrade Bear said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
I don’t have a problem with Vuna being given another run (though a little lucky perhaps given the current injured Wingers list) – but Horne? I thought he was very in-effective and don’t see any potential in his play at all.
June 12th 2012 @ 3:43pm
B-Rock said | June 12th 2012 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
Right CB… so Horne, who is 2yrs younger and much more fundamentally sound than Vuna, who is obviously flawed at this level, is not worth another chance?
I see potential in both actually – but Horne has much more. People forget how young he is (22) and how much he offers in both attack and defense. He is not a flashy attacking player but has the right mix of speed, strength and skills to potentially be a very good 12/13 down the track.
Also – as with the limited depth of wingers there is no one pushing for selection at 13 over Horne
June 12th 2012 @ 3:57pm
sittingbison said | June 12th 2012 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
Cummins is pushing for selection over Horne, also has the right mix of speed, strength and skills in both attack and defense.
He doesnt play for Tahs though.
June 13th 2012 @ 3:13am
Original Ben S said | June 13th 2012 @ 3:13am | Report comment
‘Well done Cooper Vuna for injuring George North’
Not really in the spirit of the game.
June 13th 2012 @ 10:06am
Cattledog said | June 13th 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Agree. Another dumb comment!
June 13th 2012 @ 8:10am
Parisien said | June 13th 2012 @ 8:10am | Report comment
“God’s speed”? Is this post a prayer?
June 12th 2012 @ 11:57am
Red Kev said | June 12th 2012 @ 11:57am | Report comment
I thought the second row could do with changing. I assume Timani is still injured from the Scotland match, and I know Douglas was released from the squad so I would say Pyle and Sharpe to start with Simmons to replace Sharpe after 50 minutes.
And it goes without saying that Vuna should have been replaced.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:04pm
Richie McCaw said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
I hope the Wallabies do themselves justice here. Can’t pick a winner, I don’t know who will win I just hope Australia don’t get thumped. Deans is screwed either way if he loses knowing the fickle nature of the Aussie fans. If he loses with an unchanged team he will be labelled someone with no vision and courage to pick a better side and only going with a “it worked last time” approach. If he changed the team and lost he will be labelled a bonehead for changing a winning line up and messing with continuity.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:37pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
What if, and only if we used that New Zealand mantra ‘Pick the best team to win the next test’? If looking at it through that prism would you still pick Vuna and Horne considering neither played well in the 1st test and there are credible options available such as Ant Fainga’a and Dom Shipperly. Or perhaps even Moving AAC to the wing and putting Mark Gerard to full back or visa-versa?
The fact is Australia was lucky to win that test and Wales will adapt accordingly. It would be foolish to not pick your best 22 would you not think Richie? I don’t think there is too much support for Horne and close to none for Vuna out there. I get your point but Horne and Vuna were not exactly wonderful contributors last week and dropping them would not be an injustice. But that’s just my opinion.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:46pm
Richie McCaw said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
New Zealand don’t have that mantra otherwise we could never create depth. I’ll be honest, I don’t know what Australia’s “best” team is and I didn’t say I support an unchanged or changed line up so I can’t offer any credible answers to your questions on selection.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:56pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
New Zealand don’t always follow that mantra. For example against Ireland they brought in players who would not be first choice but they wanted to develop. The same with Vuna. In any case give him a chance he was the only debutant out there.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:07pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
To KPM & RM,
I read an article last week re that New Zealand always follow that Mantra but I am not hear to argue that and am satisfied by both your responses. However I think its a mantra Australia could well use because winning becomes a habit that breeds confidence which I still think we are lacking. I dont think this is a time for experimenting and I think Vuna is an experiment. If we were really looking to reward for effort (Robbie Deans Mantra) why does not Mark Gerrard, Ant Fainga’a, Nick Cummins, Dom Shipperly get a look in as it is clear to most of us over this side of the ditch they are better players than Vuna. Your thoughts Gents?
June 12th 2012 @ 1:18pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
UA this is perhaps the most important time for experimentation because the Wallabies are not playing the number Four nations teams, and so it is virtually the last time to experiment before the Lions tour. In fact much more experimentaion would have been desirable.
Gerrard and Faiingaa are attacking mediocrities and should be nowhere near test rugby, Cummins and Shipperley are average in attack. Vuna is the only play which the exceptional pure talent that SHOULD be a minimum requirement to play for the Wallabies. In fact that is why he has been selected, not as a mediocre stop-gap.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:31pm
Comrade Bear said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
I think Dom Shipperly has far more potential than Vuna – and he seemed to stop Vuna’s ‘exceptional pure talent’ easy enough when they last met – and he scored a try….
Though I am happy enough that Dom is not in the Team – I think he needs a little more time to develop as well as grow physicaly before giving him a go at internatinal level. Dom may not look much – but neither did Joe Roff – and I can see him being a similar player as Roff – which I don’t think will be too far off…
June 12th 2012 @ 3:20pm
sittingbison said | June 12th 2012 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
KPM how can you say Cummins is average in attack. For goodness sake he has been lauded this year for stepping up to 13 while still making blistering powerful and elusive runs. He always gets past the first tackle and makes important hard yards in the second and third tackle. Its the reason why he is often mentioned as being one of the 13s that should be looked at!! That is also the point KPM he is playing 13 this year, and significantly better in attack and defence than Horne.
If you are talking about his try scoring, remember which team he is in, one without a 10 and “coached” until recently with a brain dead aimless kicking game. Its often his bullocking running actually allows others to make the score.
You really should stop making sweeping unsustainable generalizations because it seriously detracts from the good points you also make.
June 12th 2012 @ 3:29pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 12th 2012 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
KPM – Mate cant agree with you for the single reason that I think the hall mark of great Wallaby teams, and I assume that is What Robbie is trying to do, has been our defence. 1984, 91 & 99 have all had fantastic defence. I mean the 1991 RWC we only scored 1 try in the final but tackled like demons. 99 we scored 2 in the final, and only let in 1 try for the whole tournament that was against USA in Limerick (By the way I had a shocker in the Guinness that night as well). In that facet of the game Vuna is a Tuna…big, powerful, no idea and no arms and costs a lot at market. John West should reject him!
There are better wingers in Australia who can also tackle and support the other back two. I disagree with you KPM about Shipperly, he can score a try. The Honey Badger, well he won’t quit, Tommy Kingston can play. I reckon Robbie might be looking for another Digby but I think in Vuna he has struck fools gold.
I dont think we can afford to experiment too much at all mate. Injuries have determined we must but I reckon others are better but looks like we are in different camps on this one. Thanks for reply though KPM always enjoy you thoughts on the game.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:29pm
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
If gerrard was younger I would select him, he has been sensational for the rebs and his kicking out of hand 2nd to none. However he will not be part of the wallaby squad in the long run due to his age so I’d prefer them to blood younger guys like vuna/shipperly etc.
I dont have an issue with coaches testing some unknowns in the test match cauldron. SBW was selected in the AB’s november squad before playing a single s15 game if i recall correctly.
June 12th 2012 @ 5:05pm
Moaman said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
” SBW was selected in the AB’s november squad before playing a single s15 game if i recall correctly. ” Richard McCaw definitely was.I believe one Josh Kronfeld was disgusted by the selection…(picking a bolter to wear the black jersey and thereby devaluing it…..).Wonder what he thinks now?
June 12th 2012 @ 5:18pm
sittingbison said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:18pm | Report comment
he probably thinks the same thing Moaman, it WAS devaluing the balck jersey. And SBW was not ready for the All Blacks then, I’m not convinced he was even ready at RWC. Just because he might have come of age now doesnt mean it was right back then
June 12th 2012 @ 5:29pm
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
SB I think Moaman is saying that Kronfeld was disgusted at McCaw being selected as a bolter.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:07pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
Jutsie everyone looks at Vuna with a preconception. He was the only debutant on the field and so theoretically should be given some leeway as most debutants are, but being Cooper Vuna, he isn’t. Secondly, he was marking George North, the most dangerous runner on the pitch and considered the most damaging wing as a runner in the northern hemisphere, unlike everyone else who had less threatening player to mark, but then this isn’t taken into account because he’s Cooper Vuna. He missed a tackle on North who then broke three or four other tackles but the culprits aren’t mentioned, as they aren’t Cooper Vuna. He caught some high balls perfectly well and threw long accurate passes back into the midfield, but this isn’t registered by those with preconceptions.
You’re right that he should not worry about the fear of making mistakes and run up the middle again and again. If he adds his linebreaking abilities to Ioane’s the combination could be devastating. These three Wales matches will develop him a huge amount and the training and confidence he will have received can be further worked on in the final Super rounds.
I assume Timani is injured. With him in the second row this pack would be formidable.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:16pm
Red Kev said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
That would be the long accurate pass where the ball flew behind Barnes at over head height and then bounced forward towards the opposition.
His two decent tackles were both on players intent on catching the ball, and while his pressure chasing is to be commended, his tackling in general is not. In one sequence he he got brushed off and stepped three times in a row by a Welsh back.
It is not about preconception, it is about evaluating critically in the face of the other options available. If you are having to mark George North, why put your weakest defender there? With JOC and Mitchell out and now Tomane injured, Shipperley is the next best, he is a far superior winger to Vuna, he has pace, strength, a good step and more importantly solid defence and good catching skills.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:27pm
Justin2 said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
He should never have been picked. End of story…
June 12th 2012 @ 12:49pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
As Wayne Smith said when Vuna was selected over Shipperley, the latter ‘tends towards the “no-frills” end of the excitement spectrum.’ Vuna’s attacking ability towers over Shipperley’s. For too long Australia have been satisfied with players like Shipperley: quite good, but not AMAZING. Solid defence can be learnt, but PURE TALENT cannot.
With a player of Vuna’s PURE talent a few games in a row are needed so his weaknesses can be assessed, ironed out in the week, and then improved in each subsequent matches. We would like to see more of him attacking, more of what he really does best.
Vuna has X-factor, that’s what the Wallabies need, not yet another SAFE PLODDER. X-factor all the way! This means Vuna. This means Tomane. This does NOT mean Shipperley. Australia must aim above the average to be the best.
As Ernest Hemingway said:
‘”In going where you have to go, and doing what you have to do, and seeing what you have to see, you dull and blunt the instrument you write with. But I would rather have it bent and dulled and know I had to put it on the grindstone again and hammer it into shape and put a whetstone to it, and know that I had something to write about, than to have it bright and shining and nothing to say, or smooth and well oiled in the closet, but unused.” ‘
Shipperley has nothing to say at international level however well-oiled he may be, Vuna may need hammering into shape but he certainly does.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:56pm
Justin2 said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
No one is denying he has X factor KPM.
He is in his second season now and his defence is still a shambles as are many other parts of his game.
To give him applause for chasing kicks shows just how desperate some people are to convince others of his worth to the side… thats a basic and one of the first times I have ever seen him do it.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:59pm
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
QC’s defence is not much better and he’s been the game his entire life. Yet we all can’t wait till he gets back to provide the “x-factor”
June 12th 2012 @ 1:03pm
sittingbison said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
not really Jutsie, I thought the consensus is we want him to have learnt in his time out how to tackle so he isn’t hidden away and diggers out of position covering from him
June 12th 2012 @ 1:08pm
Justin2 said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
Juts – yes Coopers defence isnt near what it should be. But a winger missing a tackle almost certainly means try time.
Coopers worth to the team vs a wingers is undeniable isnt it? Comparing a 10 to a 14 is a different kettle of fish, rightly or wrongly. Cooper when he absolutely has to (in his mind) tends to make the tackle more often than not. He tends to miss tackles when the back up is there and gets back into another position (wrongly yes, no question) letting the back up do the dirty work!
June 12th 2012 @ 1:16pm
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
SB/Justin agree with both of you, I just think we are being a bit hard on vuna and used QC as an example.
I don’t think he is a test standard winger either but I think the criticism is over the top.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:19pm
Justin2 said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
Juts – I actually think the frustration and over the top criticism of Vuna is as much about another Deans selection horror.
Vuna’s weakness’ are there for all to see and he just should not have been picked. Nothing on the weekend has changed the minds of those who are in that camp.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:20pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
Jutsie the criticism isn’t just over the top but so far over the top it’s strange: especially when the reaction of the press who are generally hostile to Deans was not negative regarding Vuna’s selection. Could it be that the rugby press recognise his talent while the posters here don’t?
June 12th 2012 @ 1:33pm
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
Fair call justin.
I’m just of the opinion that its better to go down swinging than to not fire a punch at all. I was disappointed with Dean’s performance at the world cup as he was ultra conservative however I’m happy for him to take a punt on vuna who has an undeniable attacking flair over the safer bet shipperley.
If he were to select vuna when guys like JOC/Tomane were available I would think he had cleary lost the plot lol.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:59pm
formeropenside said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
Yeah, ask the Waratahs how good Shipperley is. Really a plodder.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:31pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
Good break, shame about the season since then.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:47pm
Comrade Bear said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
I think Dom has scored a further 5 tries since?
June 12th 2012 @ 6:10pm
murph73 said | June 12th 2012 @ 6:10pm | Report comment
Yeah shame about being the leading try scorer in Super Rugby. You still sooking about Shipperly smoking Horne?
June 12th 2012 @ 1:01pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
Justin2 I don’t think he was used enough in attack on saturday: this is a big part of what he should be judged on as it’s where he’s likely to make his biggest contributions. Hopefully this week he will be involved more and then we’ll be able to judge him on the ace in his pack.
There’s so little X-factor in Australia. Those 7 players I named are the only ones with it. I can’t think of a single other candidate except young players who have hardly a Super cap or none at all. So that’s why I think it’s imperative to at least have a go with these X-factor players and see what can be made of them, because if you could get all 7 firing then you would at least start to have a chance….
June 12th 2012 @ 1:10pm
Justin2 said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
KPM – Im not getting into a debate about this again, we have been through this a 1000 times.
IMO he shouldnt be near a Test jumper, end of story. He has glaring weaknesses in his game that should be ironed out before he plays for Australia.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:13pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
Justin2 the good thing about rugby is that while there is a lot of opinion there is also a lot of evidence, and possibly these arguments will be resolved one way or the other on this and next saturday, right?
June 12th 2012 @ 1:14pm
Red Kev said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Good wingers go looking for the ball, they don’t wait for it. Look at how Ioane does it.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:22pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
RK Ioane has played test rugby 22 times and so has become able to do this. It takes time. It’s Vuna’s first cap.
His flaws could be ironed out before his debut if this wasn’t the Wallabies and there was more depth. But there isn’t, so risks must be taken. As reminded yesterday Genia and JOC were chosen with less than three Super caps. Different cases yes, but risks of the kind unnecessary if there were more depth.
June 12th 2012 @ 3:34pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 12th 2012 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
Didn’t Hemingway kill himself?
“Shipperley has nothing to say at international level however well-oiled he may be” – Let the man speak and then we will find out if he really has nothing to say KPM. Don’t kill the freedom of speach! Thats what the ANZACS fought for didn’t they?
June 12th 2012 @ 5:16pm
Moaman said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
” Thats what the ANZACS fought for didn’t they? ” Er…no,they didn’t Uncle. They fought for the Imperial “Mother Country” or some such twaddle. I doubt many had even heard of “freedom of speech”.OK….maybe they had…Greek concept ….popular notion in Revolutionary France? Don’t know if colonials/subjects/minorities were particularly encouraged by the British to exercise many freedoms.
June 12th 2012 @ 6:30pm
sittingbison said | June 12th 2012 @ 6:30pm | Report comment
not after william wallace
June 12th 2012 @ 5:12pm
Greg said | June 12th 2012 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
Well said KPM. Always good to read your points on this site.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:10pm
Worlds Biggest said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
So is Tomane in or out, the team listed in the article has him in ? If Vuna get’s another chance he needs to have a big one. Likewise Horne. Not a lot of speed off the bench with AF and Harris. I would have gone with Shipperly or Morahan instead of Harris.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:14pm
Jutsie said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
His out for 6 weeks, think its an error by the journo naming him.
June 12th 2012 @ 12:25pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 12th 2012 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
“Cooper did well, and he will have learned a lot from that experience,” said Deans.
If how Vuna played constitutes “Well” I have my concerns as missed tackles, no rucking, mauling skills and poor positional play means ‘Did well’ what is ‘Did Bad’?
I agree his kick chase was good in one particular case but a sunny day doesn’t make a summer. This selection and definition of play is as confusing as picking Ben McCalman as a back up number 7.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:02pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
UA he has far more talent than Mcalman, is one of only 7 highly talented attacking players in Australia and so is a very obvious selection.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:17pm
Red Kev said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
“one of only 7 highly talented attacking players in Australia” is such complete and utter tripe I don’t know why I bother to read or respond to you … I guess sometimes it’s just fun to feed the trolls.
June 12th 2012 @ 1:23pm
kingplaymaker said | June 12th 2012 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
RK name one other then???? I’ll grant you Leiifano, but try and name a player with the outstanding ability to be a devastating player at international level outside those 7. Go on, try, it will be extremely amusing.
June 12th 2012 @ 3:34pm
Damo said | June 12th 2012 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
KPM especially leallifano.
Kpm has a point RK. Although, like you probably, I was screaming at the television for him to stop missing tackles!!! I see the point of kpm and deans and what they see in Vuna the Attacker.
The experiment with Vuna must be completed.
I remember wondering a few years ago why deans wanted a little 18 year old boy to play for the Wallabies.
We all now know why, even if a stubborn few disagree with joc selection.
I’m happy to go along with Robbie and Vuna on this one.