The Wallabies were brought back down to earth by Scotland (AAP Image/Paul Miller)
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So the northern hemisphere is shrouded in gloom once more, its rugby inferiority being confirmed last weekend, with pace, power and intensity among the attributes identified as being lacking.
It’s not that simple, of course, with a reaction of some sort from Ireland, Wales or England being almost guaranteed over the next fortnight.
Those who dabble in the short-term investment markets, for example, might like to consider the odds on a Welsh win this weekend.
But what opinions can be formed about the southern hemisphere sides? Careful ones, given the limited evidence. But there was still enough to produce some tentative conclusions. Here are a few: New Zealand remain the benchmark; Australia and South Africa are hard to split; and tread carefully in Argentina – they beat Italy without a host of their top-line performers.
The difficulty in separating the Wallabies and Springboks is a result of the contrasting impulses that their performances provoked.
Australia were superior in their work on the ground, with Heinrich Brussow’s omission remaining a mystery, and wonderfully clinical at times.
A review of the tape slightly downgraded the huge influence of Will Genia on the result and upgraded that of David Pocock.
The Wallabies captain was not that far off the destructive presence that undid South Africa at the World Cup in Wellington, with the Welsh implying afterwards he was allowed similar leeway.
A hunger to feast on mistakes also ran through Australia’s performance, and was not solely restricted to their tries. Tatafu Polota-Nau’s piece of skill in the 20th minute – scooping up the ball from a Benn Robinson turnover with one hand and finding Genia with a weighted pass – was the sort of invention rarely seen in South Africa midfields, never mind front rows.
And which Wallabies fan did not take immense pleasure in Pat McCabe’s angled run to scythe through a defence put in four minds by the options contained in Genia’s rugby brain?
Throw in a determined kick-chase, speed to the breakdown and an improved kicking game to add to that ample list of positives.
But in Durban the Springboks were building a win on very solid foundations, even if creativity was a stranger.
At first glance a 22-17 victory against England might seem like uninspiring fare, but there was a quality about their set-piece work and a 20-minute spell of torrid forward intensity in the second half that hinted at their huge potential.
As usual, their lineout was strong, but it was their scrum superiority that raised eyebrows. Quite simply, England struggled to win any of their own ball and started to fall apart towards the end.
By contrast, a grain of salt must be taken with praise heaped on the Wallabies’ set-piece today. http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/deans-is-delighted-with-pack-mentality-20120612-2083e.html
There was an unconvincing note to the Wallabies’ work, especially on the Welsh put-in, where the visitors won two penalties and Sekope Kepu appeared to struggle against Gethin Jenkins. It is an area to watch on Saturday.
At the lineout, six throws were won, one was lost, one was not straight and one resulted in a free-kick to Wales. All sides have elements to work on, but for the Wallabies the set-piece remains pressing. Achilles is still flashing his heel.
The All Blacks were operating on a different planet to the Irish in Auckland, who had clearly decided a containment policy would be the greater of two evils and tried to play the Kiwis at their own up-tempo game.
While the result of that scheme was predictable, it did offer a look at the New Zealand game plan underpinning some of their bolder selections. It appears that sheer pace is the weapon selected by Steve Hansen to take the side forward, and it is not just restricted to foot speed.
At times lineout throws had been lobbed in while the television director was still admiring a replay, and new halfback Aaron Smith’s bullet passes created all manner of headaches for the Irish defence.
The new personnel have created more options at the lineout too – with four genuine jumpers in 2012 instead of two last year – although the jury remains out on whether they can compensate for the loss of Brad Thorn at scrum time.
Sean Fitzpatrick said of his 1995 side that there were the fastest and fittest but ultimately not the strongest. The Tests of that nature for the 2012 model are later in the calendar.
Paul Cully is a freelance journalist who was born in New Zealand, raised in Northern Ireland, but spent most of his working life in Australia. He is a former Sun-Herald sports editor, rugby tragic, and current Roar and RugbyHeaven contributor.
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June 13th 2012 @ 4:23am
Johnno said | June 13th 2012 @ 4:23am | Report comment
-I think this week will be the real gage where the NH and SH teams are really at
-As both teams will of had a week to settle in and get into the groove and develop combinations
June 13th 2012 @ 2:50pm
Richie McCaw said | June 13th 2012 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
You may be right. Then again we might be saying that the week after as well. Then after that we will collate all of our “findings” before the Rugby Championship and have a blast discussing what will happen, then after the first round we will re-evaluate in preparation for the next round and then…my head hurts.
June 13th 2012 @ 4:50am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 4:50am | Report comment
South Africa and England will never join the top table until they choose their best attacking backs and develop an attacking game. At the moment they are both relying on 10 men to win them matches. The adaptability of the coaches will determine whether they succeed.
I thought Kepu did well on his natural side of the scrum and only suffered when forced to change sides. It would also help if one of the Timani brothers was packing down in the second row to power up the scrummaging. An increase in power with Palu and TPN finally in the pack won the match, simple as that.
June 13th 2012 @ 6:53am
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 6:53am | Report comment
KPM – did u actually watch the SA Eng game? backs were heavily involved. habana had a blinder and a couple of set pieces were for him. morne steyn was hitting the line and making his 1st up tackles. one of mornes hit ups had him selling a dummy and going ion for a try. oddly enough he was missing his kicks.
fransSteyne and JDV were awesome on defence in the midfield. JDV also scored a try of sustained forward and backs pressure.
Boks still have their forward pack rumbling it up but nw have an awesome backline hungrily waiting for clean fast ball.
i’ll say it now, SANZAR teams need to be very aware of the boks. they’re still masters of the 10 man dark arts but also now have enthusiastic backs waiting and wanting to score tries.
this is a bok side that we havent seen for over 4 seasons and this new team will astound and redefine how we play rugby
June 13th 2012 @ 7:09am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:09am | Report comment
mania the two backlines were abominable. Habana did well as an individual as did Ashton and Tuilagi at least bashed around even if it didn’t lead anywhere. But there was zero creativity, organisation and little quality across either backline. Neither team will be able to do anything until they put out a decent group of backs and teach them an expansive game.
June 13th 2012 @ 7:13am
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:13am | Report comment
do u not remember the non existent backline of the boks last 4 years? creativity will come, 1st test and team work takes time to build. your missing the point. this is the boks of yesterday plus backs. the boks of the last 4 years have been missing attacks from the big numbers. now they have the forwards and the backs to be world beaters.
boks will be the biggest movers and most improved this year
sure they made a lot of errors but they show a lot of potential as well
June 13th 2012 @ 7:35am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:35am | Report comment
mania I agree Meyer could change things and just be starting off safely. But change he must as that backline was useless. There’s no way they can be an attacking force with Steyn at the helm, whatever his weight in kicking points.
June 13th 2012 @ 7:41am
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
your harsh KPM – morne had an awesome game. didnt miss any tackles. hit the line and scored a try.
June 13th 2012 @ 7:49am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:49am | Report comment
mania Steyn can have a wonderful game but never a creative one. He isn’t creative fly-half, but a pure kicking one: an incredible kicker for the posts or out of hand. A Wilkinson clone. These kicking fly-halves are great for the 10 man game but hopeless at inspiring their backlines, so it depends entirely on what kind of game they want to play. Owen Farrell is a little more creative for England, but not enough and so they will struggle to play an attacking game as well.
June 13th 2012 @ 7:51am
biltongbek said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:51am | Report comment
Anf yet, we often do. we have had a torrid time against Oz over the past four years under PDV, some bad luck too. We are still the biggest challenge for the All Blacks, even with our limited plans. 5-6 in the last 4 years under PDV.
Not too shabby I’d say.
June 13th 2012 @ 8:03am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 8:03am | Report comment
Habana was indeed good.
June 13th 2012 @ 9:01am
Joshy said | June 13th 2012 @ 9:01am | Report comment
You clearly have something against both England and South Africa. Highly doubt you watched the game.
June 13th 2012 @ 11:04am
Riccardo said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
Apparently the All Blacks were pretty ordinary too Joshy accodring to his post on another thread…
June 13th 2012 @ 11:20am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:20am | Report comment
Not at all, only the backs. The forwards did very well. Overall a very good performance.
England and South Africa were abysmal though.
June 13th 2012 @ 11:43am
Thurl said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:43am | Report comment
The All Black backs were ordinary….? OK KPM. I’ll take the bait…what constitutes creative back play if thats not what you saw at Eden Park?
June 13th 2012 @ 11:49am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:49am | Report comment
Ordinary by their high standards. Go back a few years, you have an in-form Sivivatu, Rokocoko, Muliaina as the back three, Nonu/Smith in their prime, a young and faster Carter. That backline would have put 80 past this Ireland team. Or the generation before, with Lomu, Cullen, Umaga, Wilson, 100 perhaps?
June 13th 2012 @ 11:59am
Richie McCaw said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:59am | Report comment
KPM, was that the same Sivivatu/Rokocoko combo that didn’t have the skill-set to deal with bombs and tactical kicking that the Boks exposed the All Blacks in 2009? They were great players KPM but alas this great game of ours is forever changing and great teams have to adapt to stay great.
June 13th 2012 @ 12:05pm
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
Maybe Richie, but my statement about the ABs against Ireland was how they did in attack.
June 13th 2012 @ 12:05pm
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
RM u beat me to the punch
Sivivatu & Rokocok were great servants of the game but its changed since their time and the AB’s now demand more.
and in regards to SBW, agree with riccardo here. SBW needs the AB’s more than vice versa. SBW is only one man. AB’s is about a team, history and future
June 13th 2012 @ 12:11pm
ohtani's jacket said | June 13th 2012 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
That first team KPM mentioned never played together in their prime let alone put 80 on the Irish, but fortunately I’ve learnt to interpret KPM-speak. What he means is a better All Black backline would have put on a more clinical display. They probably wouldn’t have since it was the first test of the season, but let’s not question the authority.
June 13th 2012 @ 12:13pm
Richie McCaw said | June 13th 2012 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
lol mania, when I was writing that response your name flashed through my thoughts, I suspected you’d have a similar view.
June 13th 2012 @ 12:24pm
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
OJ clinical’s not exactly the word I would use, damaging, destructive, incisive, penetrating are more like it.
I didn’t say the whole backline were unimpressive: I thought Carter, Dagg, Savea were very good although the praise of Aaron Smith is somewhat exaggerated, especially given he was behind a dominant pack, but he did very well for a first cap. I don’t think they’re using SBW to best advantage solely as decoy/battering ram but I recognise it will take time to integrate him well, though not if as is apparently the case he is going to be replaced by Nonu in the next match.
My criticism of the ABs was not that big: you’d thing I had savaged them here. I thought the pack were superb and the overall performance very good. The only problem in the pack was that Ireland seemed able at times to disrupt them.
So it’s mostly very good but not quite in the backs. Hardly a savaging.
June 13th 2012 @ 12:36pm
ohtani's jacket said | June 13th 2012 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
The All Black performance was nothing more than solid and the backs were lucky they got plenty of ball considering the scoring opportunities that went begging, but as far as starts go they accomplished what they set out to do. They scored more tries in the 2010 opener where Ireland were a man down but they also let in a number of tries which opposition supporters latched onto. The backs can do better. Apparently, they didn’t practice much attacking and just relied on natural skills for the first test.
June 13th 2012 @ 12:41pm
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
great minds RM
June 13th 2012 @ 12:58pm
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
I read Chris Rattue’s article on the rest of the series and although it was rather gloating towards Ireland, I suspect he’s right about what could happen: the team seem to have an extra quality of confidence since the RWC win.
June 13th 2012 @ 1:51pm
Richie McCaw said | June 13th 2012 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
lol KPM, whenever I see an article that Chris Rattue has written I immediately skip to the next one. That guy I suspect is hired by the New Zealand Herald to be deliberately controversial, he always comes from a weird perspective. I didn’t read that article however and I’m not going to either so I’ll take your word for it. I just hope people don’t think that he represents anyone other than himself.
June 13th 2012 @ 1:52pm
Rugby Diehard said | June 13th 2012 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
“I’ve learnt to interpret KPM-speak. ……..let’s not question the authority.”
x 2 OJ
June 13th 2012 @ 11:39am
jeznez said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:39am | Report comment
KPM – Kepu struggled while he was at tighthead. His side of the scrum was under huge pressure all night. I’m a strong believer that Palmer should be at tighthead and Kepu on the bench to come on fresh when the others are a bit tired.
Completely agree that I’d like to see Sitaleki Timani in the second row with Sharpe coming off the bench. Lopeti – not so much, lets see him continue to develop as a backrower where I think he is coming along nicely.
June 13th 2012 @ 11:43am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:43am | Report comment
I saw differently: I thought he did very well until moved to the other side. Kepu is a very good player in the loose and that puts him above Palmer for me, who for the moment should stay on the bench.
The huge increase in the Wallabies pack through Palu and TPN won that match and was the reason the pack was unrecognisable from any for years. Power is so important. Hence one Timani should start as the Thorn/Botha power lock and the other Timani replace him: power replacing power.. I would start Sharpe for the first 50 so the opposition can get no advantage in the lineout.
June 13th 2012 @ 2:02pm
jeznez said | June 13th 2012 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
KPM – The simple fact is that the Aussie scrum was moving around all night. If you want to see a comfortable scrum then look for one that has no foot movement or is moving forward. Wales had a massive edge over us all night but didn’t get great reward for it.
Kepu is much better in the loose than Palmer but that is not what a tight forward (note the word tight) should be picked for.
You keep pushing Lopeti Timani as a second row option when we have never seen him play there – no guarantee that he could succesfully transition there. You are also proposing the replacement of Sharpe at 50 minute mark – by who? You already have Timani replacing Timani. Are you just going to run your backrow for the whole 80 minutes? Getting a bit more speed into the backrow is usually beneficial late in the game. Bit of a luxury carrying two second row replacements on your bench.
June 13th 2012 @ 2:10pm
Jutsie said | June 13th 2012 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
Agree that the main job of the tight five is to get the set piece right, we have focussed on the work rate of the props for too long. Guys like slipper, alexander etc are great around the park but should be nowhere near the wallaby 22.
June 13th 2012 @ 9:08pm
dcnz said | June 13th 2012 @ 9:08pm | Report comment
yeah no yeah no no no…wrong about SBW.
He is not just bash and crash and lucky offloads.
For one of the Savea tries, Conrad Smith snaked his way through a gap then passed a cut in to SBW who off-loaded to Carter, who slid the ball to Savea.
Thats what you call a worked move, and SBW was creatively involved, so to say the ABs don’t know how to use Sonny Bill is complete and utter tosh…in my ever so humble opinion….
June 13th 2012 @ 11:46am
Jutsie said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Jez do you think kepu’s performance was also related to the weak 2nd row combo?
As he has been doing well at s15 level with the big tah 2nd rowers supporting him
June 13th 2012 @ 1:56pm
jeznez said | June 13th 2012 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Jutsie – definitely – Sharpe has improved in that area but it has been an issue with him for years. This is a much tougher scrummaging environment than Super rugby and I’ve always been concerned with his long limbs. Palmer is a better more compact shape than Kepu when it comes down to scrummaging.
I wouldn’t tinker with the side massively Palmer to start, Kepu to bench and Timani to start with Sharpe to the bench. Saw a photo of Timani in contact at training on the rugbyheaven website so assume he is fit – also suspect the reason Douglas was released from the squad is that Timani is available again.
Alexander and Hooper to be released from the match day 22.
Hopefully Douglas now that he is released is spending the next three weeks on the hugest cardio regime ever seen with the aim to finish Super Rugby strongly and press for Wallaby selection in the tests later in the year.
June 13th 2012 @ 2:03pm
Jutsie said | June 13th 2012 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
I read on the australian prior to team being selected that deans was looking to bring timani back into the starting lineup but it didnt eventuate (imagine the backlash from most of the roar community if that did occur lol).
Agree about alexander dropping out of the 22 and palmer coming into either the 15 or 22.
Not so sure about hooper being dropped, I mentioned on another article that the aussie pack had the uper-hand in intensity and speed around the park, bringing hooper on in the last 15-20min means the welsh never get a breather.
Its a tough call whether we focus on set piece parity or continuing the breakdown advantage.
June 13th 2012 @ 2:15pm
Justin2 said | June 13th 2012 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
Simmons goes before Sharpe and Dennis would be the unlucky one to go from the bench IMO. Hooper, if playing an up tempo game, is made for the final 30mins…
June 13th 2012 @ 2:17pm
Jutsie said | June 13th 2012 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
Yep, I think bringing on hooper in the final 20 was key to us stopping the welsh fightback. He is so dynamic with ball in hand. Its the one part of his game that I rate above pocock or gill.
June 13th 2012 @ 2:30pm
jeznez said | June 13th 2012 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
I’m not a huge fan of Simmons but he can get through 80 at good tempo which the other second row options cannot – he still makes a strong contribution to the set piece by being able to run the lineout and that is why I think Sharpe is the one for the bench.
I like Hooper but have never been totally convinced by the dual openside argument, Pocock is on fire and going to play the full 80. Palu is the obvious backrower to replace to keep the tempo up and I tend to think that Dennis can do that job – can live with keeping Hooper over Dennis but definitely want a specialist second rower on the bench.
June 13th 2012 @ 11:56am
MR said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:56am | Report comment
England SA Scotland Italy and Arg have repeatedly shown that you don’t need an attacking game to win rugby and/or world cup games, while it may be boring rugby it can shut down even the best AB or WB teams. The skill of a great team is that they play what is in front of them and still win (reguatdless of whether it is an attacking team or a defensive monster). This is the key lesson the WB have yet to master as they tend to go MIA when someone does not ‘play nicely’
June 13th 2012 @ 2:08pm
Richie McCaw said | June 13th 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
Agreed.
June 13th 2012 @ 2:08pm
Richie McCaw said | June 13th 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
June 13th 2012 @ 5:00am
Johnno said | June 13th 2012 @ 5:00am | Report comment
-KPM Rob Simmons for me is a real worry. To me he is what i would call just another journey man.
-Like for example richard brown, ben mcelman, Saia Faianngaa.
-Basically a player who can’t cut it at test rugby, as is non existent and ends up basically taking the spot of a promising player, and blocking the path for a player who can cut it.
- I haven’t kPM given up on Timani senior just yet, he had ot play in terrible conditions in Newcastle and did well in the rucks as he did in Smaoa too, but couldn’t show his running game.
-Rob Simmons is a journeyman nonexistent at this test level KPM and is really wasting robbie deans time in my opinion and is a wasted player out there.
-Give scott fardi, timani senior or junior a go, or Nevill a go stop going back to Rob Simmons KPM.
-How Deans backed rob simmons over Nathan Sharpe in that semi final vs NZ last year i will never know KPM
I like Dan Palmer KPM to me he is the type of prop Australia has been searching for. The best scrummager we have had since Andrew Blades and then Ben Darwin , and this is 10 years ago too.
June 13th 2012 @ 12:31pm
Jimbo Jones said | June 13th 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
Not sure why you would say Rob Simmons looks like a Journey man. To me, he would be more into Kansas or Bon Jovi
June 13th 2012 @ 1:56pm
Scot Free said | June 13th 2012 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Got a laugh out of me, JJ.
June 13th 2012 @ 5:12am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 5:12am | Report comment
Fully agree Johnno: the ideal second row combination is the old Matfield/Botha, Williams/Thorn where one of the two is a hulking wilderbeast. The Timani brothers are the only candidate for the beastly position, the other locks in Australia are all competing for the lineout/athlete first position.
Agree too on Palmer: Robinson, Kepu, Palmer and Slipper looks great for the next few years.
With Palu, TPN and a Timani brother at lock the Wallabies can face down any opposition pack physically. With those props and Sharpe for the lineout, they are stable in the set-piece.
In fact the pack is looking the best in years, but ONLY if the Timani brothers are brought in to add that final muscle and fill the Thorn/Botha role.
June 13th 2012 @ 5:34am
Johnno said | June 13th 2012 @ 5:34am | Report comment
Fully agree KPM a wildebeast or a big moose is needed in the2nd row.
-Matfield and botha, thorn.williams were good team contrasting sizes.
-Dave Giffin and John Eales were good too, as were sharpe/vickerman 2007, and Paul O’connell/simon shaw 2009 lbritish lions series.
-Timani’s would add muscle no question , and it would be silly if some would ignore timan juniori based on one lousy scrum error vs the bulls this year at the SFS.
-Palu and TPN have come on good this year too which is encouraging but Rob Simmons has to go.
-Horwill may come back but to be honest I am much more of a Vickerman fan, Horwill is only 75% the player Vickerman is.
-Vickerman is very intelligent, big 6’8 ,aggressive, big strong, good in scrum, just a quality player but he is out.
-Timani senior is 6’8, i see timpani junior more of a no 8 or 6 , but he is still about 6’5 and is very aggressive , Palu said at contact time in training everyone avoids Timani junior as he hits hard is and is very raw and has a lot of power he doesn’t realises his own strength.
June 13th 2012 @ 6:57am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 6:57am | Report comment
Johnno Australia must learn that trying hard is no substitute for raw bulk. You’re right L.Timani is like the boy who makes the others cry through not realising his own strength. Timani at this stage could go in the less technically demanding position of lock, and later in the backrow maybe: he is of course ideal as a bench replacement as he can cover lock, 8 and 6 and he will provide a massive reinforcement of power when he comes on perhaps in place of his brother, like replacing an atomic weapon with a hydrogen bomb.
June 13th 2012 @ 9:47am
Harry said | June 13th 2012 @ 9:47am | Report comment
Boys, reality check. Timani has been in and around 3 provinces (and left with a bad reputation at 2 of them, the Force and Brumbies) for 5 years now, started a couple of tests (Samoa and Scotland, you can’t blame himsolely of course for these debacles but he was on the field). Yes he looks good, but when has he ever produced during intense games? KPM – you are right, he’d scare the heck out of me and indeed I’d guess 99% of rugby players who came up against him, but the trouble for him is at test level and higher grade SuperRugby he comes up against that 1% of players who are his equal, or near enough to it, in size and strength. And these players are currently miles ahead of him in technique (he’s always too high, and unreliable in the lineout), durability and hardness, and rugby smarts (he gives away an awful lot of penalties).
Simmons … he’s strong in the lineouts and gets around the field usefully enough. He’s played in succesful teams (the Reds, last years 3N winners) and works hard on improving his game. He’s still young and learning.
June 13th 2012 @ 11:10am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Harry he only got into shape recently true, but an imperfect monster is better than a perfect fairy, and Australia need monsters more than anything else now. Indeed Palu and TPN provided the monster-factor that won the match last week. Add a third colossus and you can really get some bullying on the boil.
June 13th 2012 @ 5:32pm
Harry said | June 13th 2012 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
The number 9 for Australia had more to do with Australia winning the last test than Palu and TPN. Anyway we’ll agree to disagree re Timani. SHould add that I very much hope to be proven wrong and he becomes the consistent imposing physical presence for the Wallabies that we’d all love to see.
June 13th 2012 @ 6:53am
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 6:53am | Report comment
kpm – did u see conrad play? what a master of subtlety and sublime
June 13th 2012 @ 7:06am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:06am | Report comment
mania he won’t have such a flat track so often: Ireland at the moment are like Wales without backs. But Ireland will improve when they get their young players coming through and some currently injured back.
Savea impressed me not because of his tries but the excellent break in the first half: an All Black wing should be able to do more than just run in a try. His wing on the other side did neither, even in a rout. Carter in good shape. Most pleasing though was the performance of the pack despite Ireland sometimes roughening things up at the breakdown. I don’t think they’re using SBW well, going too far in playing him as a conservative battering ram. They should free him up more.
June 13th 2012 @ 7:10am
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:10am | Report comment
oh well KPM it was worth a try. imo conrad played awesome and made those around him look good as well as getting a try himself.
yes agree with savea. tries were good but not the highlight of his game. his break was good and his hit he put in as well. more importantly though he got smashed early in the 1st half but dusted himself offwent on to have a blinder.
June 13th 2012 @ 7:52am
Riccardo said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:52am | Report comment
He just doesn’t get it Mania.
Conrad is the best centre in world rugby and last week was another clinic. He made O’Driscoll look ordinary.
As for Savea, I reckon it was that hit he put on Kearney that really fired him up and he was pretty much unstoppable from there.
KPM, your comment regarding SBW is ludicrous. I don’t know what game you were watching but apart from a couple of early errors SBW was oustanding. He was fed well by Carter, off-loaded in the tackle and regularly drew 3 defenders which created space for the outside backs.
The All Blacks still have some work to do but that was one of the best first outings I have seen from them which is exciting.
June 13th 2012 @ 8:02am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 8:02am | Report comment
Riccardo actually I think we’ll see the best of SBW in his third year. Last year he probably just went for the offloads too much, this year they have reined him in too much, and by next year he will be at the stage where he knows exactly how much and when he can do things HIMSELF, instead of having to follow a structure so exactly that it becomes constraining. Then he could have three great years leading to the world cup, and then another two great years with the Olympics and then Lions after that. However it’s nice to hear you defending him, because it’s rare to hear anyone defending him.
Smith made BOD look ordinary because he is! He won the battle of the two most overrated players in the world at the moment.
June 13th 2012 @ 8:09am
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 8:09am | Report comment
i know riccardo, i know
SBW played well and did his role. KPM its not about the individual its about the team and SBW contributed massively as did conrad. savea was the biggest beneficiary but all the AB’s played well.
funny that SBW played well, AB’s won yet your still having a shot at the coaching staff. lol
June 13th 2012 @ 9:10am
justsaying said | June 13th 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Reports in the NZ media are that Nonu will be back at 12 for this weekend’s game. Will be interesting to see how he responds…
June 13th 2012 @ 11:12am
Rugby Diehard said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:12am | Report comment
I agree Conrad Smith is sensational, and great to see an old school centre who is not just 110kgs of muscle.
Mania – your description of him as “subtle and sublime” is spot on.
I would say in fairness to BoD that he is well past his best, but still capable of the odd piece of brilliance.
June 13th 2012 @ 10:28am
Richie McCaw said | June 13th 2012 @ 10:28am | Report comment
KPM, I can’t think of too many times Conrad has had a bad game. Just a stab in the dark here and I could be wrong but aren’t you just being bias towards Conrad because of some other esoteric reasons. Maybe because he not the “fastest” or the “biggest” or the “strongest” centre in the world. Fact is KPM he is all class and the back-line hums nicely when he’s in it, he brings out the best in his team mates which in turn strengthens the All Blacks. He misses tackles (and I’m almost not joking here) once every year both provincially and nationally. There is not one area where I’d say someone has been out playing him for years now.
June 13th 2012 @ 10:32am
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 10:32am | Report comment
lol RM – its because conrad looks scarey to KPM. i sht u not. apparent he looks like some hick off deliverance. having never seen the movie i wouldnt know.
agree tho, conrads the kind of player that contributes to everyone around him.
cant think of any other 13 in the world at the moment thats better than conrad and he’s a skinny little white guy to boot.
June 13th 2012 @ 10:44am
Richie McCaw said | June 13th 2012 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Yeah, must be his teeth that make him poor in KPM’s eyes lol.
June 13th 2012 @ 10:35am
ohtani's jacket said | June 13th 2012 @ 10:35am | Report comment
KPM is obsessed with linebreaks. Smith doesn’t make linebreaks therefore he is a poor attacker in KPM’s world.
June 13th 2012 @ 10:47am
Richie McCaw said | June 13th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
KPM must prefer a centre that can make 2 line-breaks a game instead of one that can create 5-6 for others per game.
June 13th 2012 @ 10:49am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 10:49am | Report comment
I agree that Conrad Smith does resemble the hillbilly assistant in Deliverance and is therefore very intimidating, which may explain his success for the All Blacks.
Smith until 2011 by the way made endless linebreaks.
June 13th 2012 @ 10:52am
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 10:52am | Report comment
yeah go KPM – u stick to your guns. a good argument is an awesome conduit for new ideas
June 13th 2012 @ 11:00am
M.O.C. said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
The most intimidating thing about Smith is his exceptional rugby brain, knows exactly where to be and where his teammates are and is the cement of a functioning AB backline – PS he may look like a hillbilly but I believe he is solicitor by profession.
June 13th 2012 @ 11:00am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
mania I think the bigger question than Smith is who should play 12 and 14. These seem to be more up in the air. Also, if Vito doesn’t recover is Thomson powerful enough for 6?
June 13th 2012 @ 11:01am
ohtani's jacket said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:01am | Report comment
No rugby player makes endless linebreaks. Even in Super Rugby, the leading line breaker only averages one per match. Which is the same number of linebreaks Conrad~! made against Ireland.
June 13th 2012 @ 11:07am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:07am | Report comment
OJ I remember Smith making many, many breaks three or four years ago and indeed this slippery linebreaking quality went well with his title ‘the snake’. . This is the kind of thing which he did so well but which stopped in 2011:
June 13th 2012 @ 11:08am
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
at this stage i’d say guildford is still good enough to play vs ireland or hoseaGear but they’d be keeping it warm until kahui or jane come backfrom injury
nonu and SBW for 12. i still favour nonu tho i’ll admit SBW had an awesome game on the w.e.
thomson’s a good player just he tends to get outmuscled sometimes, esp by the boks, but suits more the open game that will be ireland
June 13th 2012 @ 11:09am
Richie McCaw said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:09am | Report comment
KPM, I’d give SBW another game as a starter and I’d give Gear a go this week, that’s not to say I still don’t see a role that Guildford can play in the All Blacks set up. Thomson will do fine I believe but he does throw the loose forward trio’s balance off a wee bit but he adds a few other dimensions to his work, the All Blacks just need to appreciate what he offers and play accordingly to suit the new balance he offers.
June 13th 2012 @ 11:13am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Richie Mccaw I think it’s odd to drop SBW from the point of view of his confidence. Given that he hasn’t been a regular starter going to the bench after one match could make him think he did badly, whatever Hansen assures him to the contrary. Certainly a big talent to send to the bench and a slightly dangerous move IMO.
Thomson is all class there’s no doubt, but I’m not sure he’s big enough without a huge player at 8. But then again who else is there? Messam is another Thomson in that he’s very good but not massive.
ZG obviously should never have been in the team. I can’t fathom why he was ever considered for New Zealand. Compare him to Savea.
June 13th 2012 @ 11:26am
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:26am | Report comment
KPM – SBW is a big boy and can handle it. #12 jersey isnt his, he’s looking after it in the meantime
ZG has an awesome work ethic. sometimes he tries too hard and makes errors but he’s still a hard working winger. his rapport with dagg and carter shouldnt be discounted
thomson will do fine. sure he’s smaller but with the pace the AB’s will play the game the bigger boys will tire out quicker
June 13th 2012 @ 6:37am
Colin N said | June 13th 2012 @ 6:37am | Report comment
“As usual, their lineout was strong, but it was their scrum superiority that raised eyebrows. Quite simply, England struggled to win any of their own ball and started to fall apart towards the end.”
Paul, please explain how you think South Africa were superior in the scrum? The first three free-kicks were for early engagements, offences that are generally nothing to do with one side having a better scrum or not.
The first penalty was for Tom Johnson stupidly playing the ball with his hand when the scrum would have been re-set had the ball gone straight through.
Then in the second period, I believe England got two penalties for illegal South African infringments. Also, the only time the Springboks had dominance at the scrum was when Doran-Jones – a out-an-out tighthead – was on at loosehead.
Finally, it’s either an inditement on Jannie du Plessis’ abilities (or to Joe Marler’s credit – whichever view you prefer to take) that du Plessis failed to get the upper hand on a 21-year-old novice.
June 13th 2012 @ 12:14pm
Markus said | June 13th 2012 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
I’m actually noticing an increase in early scrum engagements this season.
Part of it looks to be due to the length and inconsistency of the ‘Pause’ call, but at other times it looks as if under pressure packs have been using that tactic where they previously would have collapsed a scrum – referees have started to award penalties for scrum collapses a lot more often, whereas an early engagement is only a free kick.
June 13th 2012 @ 7:38am
stillmissit said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:38am | Report comment
I have said it several times but just to make sure there is blood coming out of your nose, Australia plays poorly when we play slowly. It seems to me that the great games we play are done at high speed, the AB’s in Brisbane last year was a fine example.
Now Paul Cully, in this excellent article, is claiming this as a major weapon of the AB’s. I wonder if they watched the tape of the Brisbane loss and thought ‘there is something in this we can use’? Certainly all NZ’s Super teams have upped the speed of their game whilst the Tahs have spent more training time on slowing the game down.
Several great generals like Caesar and Napoleon felt speed and surprise were two of their greatest weapons. They used to be the Wallabies great weapons too, maybe it should be again. Mind you, you have to be very fit to play this card, the opposite (Tah’s) tactic doesn’t require you to be as fit or win as often.
June 13th 2012 @ 11:44am
MR said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:44am | Report comment
Agree but problem for WB is they have no plan B when come up against team that counter rucks well and can slow game down eg SA, Eng, Scotland, ABs and Italy & Arg on occasion. WB rarely show ability to grind out win which is, to put it bluntly, frustrating. While commentators are hyped a series win against Wales will not help WB beat SA AB or Arg
June 13th 2012 @ 12:13pm
stillmissit said | June 13th 2012 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
MR: Agree back at you. Is this more to do with the Wallabies inability to ruck smart let alone counter ruck?
June 13th 2012 @ 12:38pm
Richie McCaw said | June 13th 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
I may have read what you wrote incorrectly stillmissit but are you claiming that the All Blacks have tried to copy a fast paced game from the Wallabies?
June 13th 2012 @ 3:08pm
Suzy Poison said | June 13th 2012 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
Totally Agree…The Wallabies and the Boks are both sometimes very susceptible to the All Blacks who are actually better at slowing the ball down and counter-rucking. It’s all about the speed. Speed is everything. Slow ball is useless.
This from the Boks forwards coach, Johan Van Graan, about the first half against England, where England slowed the Bok ball down effectively. ‘What England were very good at was making leg tackles and then competing through the second arriving player. ‘They would also counter-ruck sometimes and that would bring our guys in, which meant the breakdowns in the subsequent phases weren’t as well attended.’
June 13th 2012 @ 7:38am
Ybgur Noinu said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:38am | Report comment
Ireland were terrrible missing three or four of their experienced and influential players. They looked tired. Of all the teams on display, the Irish were the worst by far. Trying to make comparisons between the four nations sides when they are playing Northern Hemisphere teams is pointless. All Blacks were made to look good because they were under no pressure except for the first 10 minutes. You can only judge a team when it is under pressure. Wait until the Rugby Championships are over before we can say which team is the best. As far as I am concerned the world rankings mean nothing and we start over each year with all teams being equal. Especially, in this year with so many changes.
June 13th 2012 @ 7:44am
sheek said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Paul,
As a very clever wag on The Roar suggested a week or so ago, the Boks don’t have a specialist openside flanker.
Like the ABs with their 1st & 2nd five-eights, the Boks play a 1st & 2nd blindside flanker!!!
Love it, just love it…..
June 13th 2012 @ 7:47am
kingplaymaker said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:47am | Report comment
sheek or you could say they play a 1st, 2nd and 3rd number 8.
June 13th 2012 @ 7:48am
biltongbek said | June 13th 2012 @ 7:48am | Report comment
Mania, I have been gazing over this website for a few days, and I find it admirable that you not only recognise some enthusiasm in our backline, but are prepared to voice your opinion on that.
Thank you, I get the feeling people don’t want to recognise the fact that our players can g wide. under Pieter de Villiers and the “old guard” this was stifled for far too long.
You could see the pleasure and enthusiasm on the players faces when they scored those tries with hard running forwards, quick ball and fast backs.
The interesting thing is we were also prepared to run from our half which in all honesty I didn’t expect so soon, habana looked hungry and motivated.
For those of you who want to keep criticising the boks’ backline, it is your parogative, some will take longer to convince than others.
June 13th 2012 @ 8:22am
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 8:22am | Report comment
biltongbek – its good for the boks to be underestimated and thats all i see on this site. hopefully the AB’s dont do the same as i was uber impressed with their attitude and sense of team pride. agree that you could see the pleasure and enthusiasm on the field as opposed to the last few seasons where it seemed no ideas or shared discussions were happening in the boks huddles. this is an entirely new boks who have kept all the strengths of yesteryear and have added more. you dont need discipline if your enjoying doing it.
of all the opponents of the AB’s boks are the hardest. they may not be the best in any given year but they are always the hardest to play against.
i give credit where credit is due.
i dont think it will take long for the boks to convince this season but we seem to be the minority
cant wait for schalk to come back, he’d have to be my favourite. vermulen schalk and alberts would be awesome and u still have hBrussow and juanSmith to bring into the fold. this will be an awesome year for the boks i reckon and i cant wait for them to test my beloved AB’s.
June 13th 2012 @ 11:07am
Rusty said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:07am | Report comment
8 is a number that needs more application. Vermuelen and perhaps Schalk covering would be ideal. Personally I still think Brussouw’s value cannot be underestimated and the despite Alberts best ever 80min he is still better as an impact player. So Bok backrow of choice 8. Vermuelen, 7. Schalk (blindside), 6. Brussouw (openside). Alberts as sub
June 13th 2012 @ 11:22am
mania said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:22am | Report comment
rusty – i would’ve agreed with you aweek ago but will hold my judgement for now. willem was just awesome and deserves another couple of goes. but its hard to leave schalk and hBrussow out.
normally i would say vermulen is light years ahead of spies but spies had a blinder in the weekend as well and i’d like to know if it was a fluke or is he finally fulfilling his potential
June 13th 2012 @ 11:48am
MR said | June 13th 2012 @ 11:48am | Report comment
The Boks were frankly scary in second half, AB game will be sure tough
June 13th 2012 @ 1:42pm
Magic Sponge said | June 13th 2012 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
I was also quite impressed with the boks. Bruising forward play and a desire to chuck it wide. Still plenty of up and unders but at least they tried a few other things as well. They will be formidable in the 4N. I was happy for JdV to get a meat pie after having a torrid time against Tuilagi.