Gatland or Deans: who will preach the more positive rugby?
Columnist By David Lord, 15 Jun 2012 David Lord is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Rugby Union, Wales rugby, wallabies, Warren Gatland
Robbie Deans could be gone from the Wallabies at the end of the 2012 Rugby Championship (AP Photo/Christophe Ena)
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The Wallabies’ biggest hurdle tomorrow night at Etihad Stadium is not the Six-Nations Grand Slammers Wales, but the man behind that success – coach Warren Gatland.
The heavily-built 48-year-old Kiwi fell 3m off a ladder last April and broke both heels. He missed the Suncorp Test last Saturday, won 27-19 by the Wallabies.
But Gatland has arrived in Melbourne, and don’t believe for one moment stop-gap coach Rob Howley will be calling the shots tomorrow night.
Gatland is not only a world class coach, but a motivator of the highest order.
For starters, class pivots Mike Phillips and Rhys Priestland won’t be as quiet tomorrow night, even though they are up against the world’s best half-back Will Genia and the more at home Berrick Barnes.
Wales’ two express wingers George North and Alex Cuthbert won’t be passive either.
Gatland will play expansive rugby to utilise their talents, stretching the Wallaby defence.
The first Test was a good contest. This promises to be even better if Robbie Deans unleashes his Wallaby backline as well.
Make boring pick-and-go and ill-placed clearance kicking subsidiaries to running rugby.
Digby Ioane is rightfully rated among the world’s best wingers. But he would die of pneumonia if he waited for regulation back play to come his way.
He’s wasted out there, and has to go seeking possession wherever he can find it.
Newcomer Cooper Vuna on the other wing as well. The league convert is mighty quick, but at Suncorp on debut it was more chasing clearing kicks than ball-in-hand. Another waste.
So it all boils down to Gatland vs Deans.
Gatland with two Grand Slams – 2008 and 2012 – and a World Cup semi since February 2008. Deans with one Tri-Nations last season, and a World Cup semi since June 2008.
Gatland’s coached 56 internationals for Wales with 30 wins – 54%. His away record 10 wins from 20 – 50%.
Deans 58 Wallaby internationals for 34 wins – 57%. His home record 16 wins from 24 – 67%.
Not much between the two coaches, so the result could rest with two of the best no 7′s in world rugby – David Pocock, and Sam Warburton.
Who just happen to be the two captains.
On that basis, expect a Wallaby win with Pocock in superb form, always leading by example.
But not without one helluva contest, now Warren Gatland is back on duty.
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- Explore:
- Rugby Union, Wales rugby, wallabies, Warren Gatland
June 15th 2012 @ 6:03am
The Werewolf said | June 15th 2012 @ 6:03am | Report comment
Pick and go is not boring if you are a true fan of rugby and kicking is an efficient way of gaining metres when your forwards need a break from punching it up and clearing out 110-120kg opposition forwards.
This pass it out to the wing on every occasion mentality is all good and well but you’ve got to be on the front foot first and in the right are of the field.
June 15th 2012 @ 8:19am
mitzter said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:19am | Report comment
pick & go, bomb kicking, mauling, – none of it is boring if you are going forward. But currently we seem to do the same thing over and over again despite it obviously not working
June 15th 2012 @ 9:04am
Albo said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Unless you count the pick & go that resulted in a try and the bomb that lead to Diggers hit on North. Perhaps we are getting back our deffensive offense mojo. However I shall wait until after Saturday before I get too optimistic.
June 15th 2012 @ 9:19am
David Lord said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Mitzter, that’s the whole point. If a pattern of play isn’t working, why persist? Have many options, and find the most productive on the day. Horses for courses.
June 15th 2012 @ 5:44pm
bluerose said | June 15th 2012 @ 5:44pm | Report comment
i would be interest to know what points/tactics/lessons/ideas did Jake White offer Deans during there training sessions in Melbourne, speaking of the game my heart will always pick Australia but my mind says Wales might win, overall it will be good game.
June 15th 2012 @ 10:55am
Emric said | June 15th 2012 @ 10:55am | Report comment
LOL I love how League supporters always find ways to death ride our game… Our game is loved world wide lets just enjoy it for what it is
June 15th 2012 @ 8:39pm
Seiran said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:39pm | Report comment
Pick and go is great if it’s used correctly. The AB’s are great at the pick and go, as are Boks and England. The problem with the Wallabies, is that Genia often passes the ball to high so the catching forward needs to take a step, or lean, backward before he moves forward, which slows him down and reduces his impact.
Watch for it tomorrow night; it happens all to often.
June 15th 2012 @ 6:09am
Original Ben S said | June 15th 2012 @ 6:09am | Report comment
Wales don’t really play expansive rugby. It’s a myth. They kick a lot.
June 15th 2012 @ 8:10am
Rusty said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:10am | Report comment
Wallabies don’t really play expansive rugby. It’s a myth. They kick a lot.
June 15th 2012 @ 8:33am
Original Ben S said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:33am | Report comment
(shakes head in agreement). That tickled me.
June 15th 2012 @ 12:29pm
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | June 15th 2012 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
June 15th 2012 @ 3:19pm
Aware said | June 15th 2012 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
Who cares whose positive or negative. Winning is everything; style is nothing where national pride is at stake.
June 15th 2012 @ 3:38pm
AndyS said | June 15th 2012 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
Vince Lombardi knew a bit about it and his take was”Show me a good loser, and I’ll show you a loser.” The same would extend to style, at least until winning became so commonplace that people could afford to get critical about the aesthetics of the win. Australias problem at the moment is that it is playing boring, static rugby AND losing too often. But the reality is that it’s the second bit that is the real problem.
I’ve often wondered what I’d do if my team developed four kickers that could each hit drop goals with >75% accuracy, such that they could just pepper the posts every time they went forward and get any misses kicked back from the 22. It would be a profoundly boring game plan, but if it guaranteed 30+ points a game as a base line to start from…?
June 15th 2012 @ 3:52pm
Aware said | June 15th 2012 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
Vince Lombardi had his head screwed on. You could have drawn a line under that and left it there.
June 15th 2012 @ 4:06pm
Aware said | June 15th 2012 @ 4:06pm | Report comment
Or…to put it another way…”you can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig.”
June 15th 2012 @ 6:25am
Korngold said | June 15th 2012 @ 6:25am | Report comment
DAVID – the way Deans uses Digby, as a kind of barging No.8, he’s more likely to catch athlete’s foot than pneumonia. I’d love to see him given some space to go one-on-one at 13. When I see him charging into the pack he reminds me of a bird in a cage.
Who wins the coaching battle? Gatland’s already won it. He’s made four smart changes – Rees, Wyn Jones, Ryan Jones, Ashley Beck – although he’s still going with Priestland, while Robbie stays with Horne and Vuna.
June 15th 2012 @ 12:09pm
Justin said | June 15th 2012 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
It’s a case of result determining selection rather than performance
June 15th 2012 @ 5:31pm
Deez said | June 15th 2012 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
Digby at 13 doesn’t work. Until he improves his passing, playing him at 13 just makes he winger outside him a wasted man.
I like the way Deans/McKenzie use him now – as an active inside runner who gives us good go forward with his power but can also act as a decoy to free up flyers out wide.
June 15th 2012 @ 5:41pm
Justin2 said | June 15th 2012 @ 5:41pm | Report comment
Agreed. Talk about taking away a strength to arguably improve a weakness. With a full book of fit players we dont need Digby at 13 anyway…
June 15th 2012 @ 6:36am
biltongbek said | June 15th 2012 @ 6:36am | Report comment
The biggest joke of it all is Australia kicked more than any other team last weekend, dismissing pick and drives?
Just for comparison I will record the games this weekend and check how many pick and drives each team does and how many kicks, there is too many cliches being thrown about, this team does this and that team does that.
June 15th 2012 @ 7:23am
Brendon said | June 15th 2012 @ 7:23am | Report comment
Wales record doesn’t include playing SA and NZ a heap of times either so I’d say gatlands record is quite unimpressive
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June 15th 2012 @ 7:41am
Ozzy Fan said | June 15th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Agreed
June 15th 2012 @ 8:32am
Wizard said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:32am | Report comment
The stats show since 1990 wales have played 52 tests versus SH nations. They have beaten aust twice and SA once and haven’t beaten NZ. Those victories were in Cardiff. The welsh are a media beat up. They have no record in the SH. All they have won is a 6N. They have tried to pick a team based on SH team, strong running nine, fast fetcher, big fast wingers etc. Australia by 8-12
June 15th 2012 @ 8:35am
Brendon said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Thats a fantastic idea if they werent playing a SH team. So Aus will win, around 10 points
June 15th 2012 @ 8:37am
Original Ben S said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:37am | Report comment
What does 1990 have to do with anything?
June 15th 2012 @ 9:00am
Wizard said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:00am | Report comment
1990 was the stat I found, doesn’t matter where you start they haven’t won in the SH for ages. I think they haven’t won in aust since 1969. Listed below is another 1996 stat. Whatever way you dress the stats up they still point to a failure to win v SH opposition. Gatland is trying to play a SH style v SH team.
June 15th 2012 @ 9:09am
Original Ben S said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:09am | Report comment
I don’t think Gatland is trying to copy the SH style of play because there is no generic style of play in the SH. He probably has copied aspects from various nations as all coaches do.
Mike Phillips is the starting 9, but beyond him there aren’t many options. That coincided with Dwayne Peel moving to play rugby in England. Warburton was chosen as he was the best 7, not because he is a natural pilferer. He followed in the footsteps of Martyn Williams, another over the ball 7. Wales have a history of producing pilferers, whereas England don’t.
My issue with 1990 is that it’s totally arbitrary. Only in recent seasons have Wales started making noises about beating SH sides, and even though they have only managed a solitary win over Australia since Gatland took over the margins of loss have been significantly reduced. Progress is a slow process.
June 15th 2012 @ 9:35am
Richie McCaw said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:35am | Report comment
I find it interesting that 3 of the last 4 coaches that Wales have had have come from NZ. When I look back their style has certainly changed to a more confident open style but I’d hesitate to say it’s a SH style. I don’t really care too much I’m just glad that there’s one more team out there that is prepared to “have a go” which is good for us watching the game.
June 15th 2012 @ 10:18am
Wizard said | June 15th 2012 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Fair call on wales improving….margins are reducing. We could argue about there style,however it’s fair to say they don’t play NH typical style. They have a go and aren’t afraid,which perhaps is the point I’m trying to make.
I agree that under Phillips there is little depth. In the past cooper,peel etc provided some depth. I actually feel Phillips is a hindrance to the team. I watched him play for Bayonne this year and he struggled,with language, style etc. he reminds me of jimmy Cowan with nz. Cowan is hindrance to nz because he plays for himself. I feel this way about Phillips. ..on the 7′s,whilst I’m not an England fan Neil back was good.
June 15th 2012 @ 7:21pm
Original Ben S said | June 15th 2012 @ 7:21pm | Report comment
I’m going to disagree with you there, Wizard. I think Wales actually play quite a conservative brand of rugby. They do have some fantastically skilled players, but under Gatland they have been very, very structured and kicked a lot. They’ve scored some very good tries over the past few seasons, but I think that’s in spite of the coaching panel (Rob Howley is backs coach) as opposed to due to the coaching panel.
I’m not a huge fan of Phillips. He is a fierce competitor and very powerful, but his passing is slow and laboured, and whilst sometimes the way he takes on bad ball and tries to surge forward and make it good ball is to be admired, I think he does it too often, and doesn’t really have an overall awareness of the game like Genia does. He overplays his hand and takes on too many men too many times IMO.
June 15th 2012 @ 10:47am
ohtani's jacket said | June 15th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Suuuure…
Why don’t we go into Deans mode for a second?
When Gatland took over Wales they were ranked 10th in the world and falling, their previous coaches having 30% and 0% winning percentages respectively. They didn’t even make it out of their pool at the 2007 Rugby World Cup. Now they’re ranked 4th in the world with two Grand Slams and a World Cup semi behind them.
June 15th 2012 @ 4:55pm
biltongbek said | June 15th 2012 @ 4:55pm | Report comment
Garland has now coached Wales for 58 tests, winning 31 , losing 26 and having 1 drawn test.
He started off with a bang winning the grand slam in 2008 and ended the calendar year on 7 wins out of 11! He lost three times against the Springboks and once to the All Blacks, his most famous win for the year Australia.
In 2009 , he ended again with 7 out of 11 wins, Losing to France, Ireland, NZ and Australia, his best victory over England.
In 2010, He ended with 2 wins out of 12, beating only Scotland and Italy.
In 2011, he ended up with 9 wins from 17, admittedly finishing 4th in the RWC.
As we all know Wales won the grand slam earlier this year, the question is however, in the last 18 months his team has put themselves in a position three times to beat SA and failed every time, their shorelines last year vs Australia may have need close, but the contests were over by the 70th minute.
Do we measure last weeks performance in context with an Australian team that didn’t have 4 of their star players, or do we measure the performance as Wales ready to make the step up. The harsh reality is out of 17 attempts against the SH tri nation teams Gatland has one solitary victory.
The way I view it, if Wales does not manage a win vs Australia without Beale, Cooper, O’Connor and Horwill, they still have some work to do before they will step up.
The fact is, two NH tens were going to end up in the semi finals last year courtesy of Ireland beating Australia, it was only a matter of who.
June 15th 2012 @ 7:27pm
Original Ben S said | June 15th 2012 @ 7:27pm | Report comment
OJ, Wales had won the Grand Slam under Mike Ruddock, and SCW had been massively impressed by the quality of their players on the 05 Lions tour, so it’s not like they didn’t have the players, they were just languishing in a poor spot. Gatland has stated publicly that he likes to take on sides with potential who are at a low ebb because there is basically only one way and that is up. He’s certainly made plenty of mistakes, and whilst fans lambast Martin Johnson, his England side contained Wales pretty comfortably.
June 15th 2012 @ 8:05pm
AWCMONREF said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:05pm | Report comment
Robbies record with the Wallabies isn’t great either, losses to Samoa and Scotland are nothing to brag about, I think Wales improvement in World Rugby puts Warren ahead of Robbie , so the North Islander takes it from the South Islander, but really two international teams with Kiwi coaches, shock horror are their anymore of them floating around besides the big guy in NZ?
June 15th 2012 @ 7:41am
Silvio said | June 15th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
The stat’s speak for themselves …. FYI I don’t think Wales have played the Boks nor the All Blacks as much as the Wallabies so Dean wins hands down !
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June 15th 2012 @ 8:33am
biltongbek said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Wales since 1996 have actually played SA 17 times, OZ 17 times and NZ 12 times.
June 15th 2012 @ 8:45am
Bellringer said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Could somebody please define for me what running rugby is.
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June 15th 2012 @ 9:05am
Albo said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
It’s what John O’Neil shouldn’t be doing…
June 15th 2012 @ 1:15pm
Comrade Bear said | June 15th 2012 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Donk!
June 15th 2012 @ 9:11am
David Lord said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:11am | Report comment
Bellringer, more ball in hand than pick and go, and clearance kicking. The best examples the 1984 and 1999 Wallabies, and Randwick over the years, often from their own tryline, Don’t take this season as anywhere near what Randwick has done in the 50 years I’ve been watching them. For the first time in history they haven’t won a Shute Shield first grade game in eight rounds.
June 15th 2012 @ 10:13am
Bellringer said | June 15th 2012 @ 10:13am | Report comment
I still don’t understand, maybe i never will. I think i’ll just keep watching.
June 15th 2012 @ 2:00pm
Sledgeandhammer said | June 15th 2012 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
Sounds like a quote from Homer Simpson
June 15th 2012 @ 6:51pm
Kuruki said | June 15th 2012 @ 6:51pm | Report comment
Definition of running rugby ” The Hurricanes”
June 15th 2012 @ 9:09am
Robbie Young said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:09am | Report comment
You lot like your stats! That’s a fact
)
June 15th 2012 @ 2:31pm
Sprigs said | June 15th 2012 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
50% quote stats, 25 % find them boring, 25% find them confusing, 100% find them very useful if they back up what they think already.
June 15th 2012 @ 10:49am
bananas said | June 15th 2012 @ 10:49am | Report comment
Sometimes we need a point od difference in rugby to gain perspective. While the wallabies have had to contend with Eddie Jones’ tantrams and Peter de Villiers continues to add commic value and the Blacks have McCaw in the raw. As good as the All Blacks are, while ever Richie is there they are going to get better. When Ireland threatened their line on Saturday Richie was heard saying. “Come on guys harden up”. We will have to wait until the pin up boy retires before the Kiwi ego is pricked.
June 15th 2012 @ 12:57pm
Harryonthecoast said | June 15th 2012 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
And as soon as Richie goes AB opponents will be “Caned”
June 15th 2012 @ 12:12pm
Brett McKay said | June 15th 2012 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
It’s all fine and good to preach and promote positive rugby, but when push comes to shove, I can’t imagine too many professional coaches would forgo winning rugby to continue preaching and promoting positive rugby. Not when their livelihood depends on the former, rather than the latter..
June 15th 2012 @ 2:01pm
Sledgeandhammer said | June 15th 2012 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
The crazy thing is that positive rugby wins matches. How many close games have the Horrortahs blown by kicking away opportunities?
June 15th 2012 @ 2:23pm
Brendon said | June 15th 2012 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
how many teams did SA beat in 09 from the opposite style of rugby whilst teams(nz and Aus) played running rugby and lost
June 15th 2012 @ 4:17pm
Brett McKay said | June 15th 2012 @ 4:17pm | Report comment
Sledge, positive rugby also loses matches. Winning rugby, on the other hand…
June 15th 2012 @ 5:42pm
Deez said | June 15th 2012 @ 5:42pm | Report comment
Brett – valid point and one I agree with. Which suggests that if as a game we want rugby to be a better spectator sport (ie where the team playing more attractive rugby has a better shot at winning), the rules of the game need to better reflect this.
Unfortunately the governing IRB body is so slow and reluctant to change the laws to promote running and tries over penalties and drop goals, I suppose the best we can hope for in the short term is for refs to officiate the game with a bias towards attractive rugby, flowing rugby.