Give Samoan rugby some respect
Roar Guru 
Wales' scrum-half Mike Phillips is tackled during the 2011 Rugby World Cup pool D Wales vs Samoa match (AAP Image/AFP, Philippe Lopez)
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Wallabies supporters like to harp on about Australia’s loss to Samoa last year being a result of the home side showing no respect to their opponents.
After watching the 2011 World Cup I find the constant demeaning references to Samoa by Wallabies supporters, as though Samoa was a minnow side, as laughable.
I am left wondering if any of the people here who constantly bring this loss up have even bothered to watch Samoa play in 2011.
If they had have watched Samoa, they would have seen a side that thrashed Fiji, pushed Wales very close and were very unlucky not to beat South Africa.
The Wallabies decided to play Samoa with a heap of their regular starters out of the starting line-up last year.
They under-estimated their opponent pre-match and they got burnt by them on the field.
If you asked Wales or South Africa how they might have gone against them if they chose to rest most of the regular starters, I bet they would not be confident of a victory.
So before another one of you Wallaby supporters bring up the loss to Samoa last year, take the time to analyse what Samoa did last year and give them the respect they deserve.
You fielded a B side against an a side that showed the form you would expect from a Six Nations powerhouse throughout 2011.
And you lost.
Stop bleating like you lost to a minnow. Samoa are no easybeats.
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June 15th 2012 @ 12:59am
Johnno said | June 15th 2012 @ 12:59am | Report comment
I truly believe Samoa last year had a team that would of had the ability to beat the all blacks 2011 team. Half there team could of made the All black squad if they chose too as they had the chance to but chose Samoa(eg halfback khan Foutali, and prop Anthony Perinesse.
To be honest they had a more naturally talented team than the AB’S team last year just look at the players man for man.
-I don’t know if Ma Nonu , jerome Kaino, SBW or Kevin Melamu would of made the starting samoa 15 last year.
-Alesenga tuilagi on the wing, Seilala Mapusua played for the prestigious London Irish team. Ma Nonu hasn’t played for prestige and highly successful clubs and teams likec like London irish, like current centres at world cup Eliota Fuimaono-Sapolu, Seilala Mapusua have.
-And the great Samoan hooker Moharani Schwalger who playes for the waikato chiefs in the super 15, is a better hooker and is rated higher than Kevin Melamu in New Zealand.
-And backorder Fasevalu plays in prestigious european leagues something Jerome Kaino has not achieved.
-Samoa I truly believe had a team last year that was capable of winning the world cup. They had a world class team, and if they had a better draw with scheduling may of beaten wales, they still just lost to wales, both wales and samoa the 2 most unlucky teams at the world cup.
-The All blacks so much of there team last year and this year and in past has samoan heritage
-Ma Nonu,
-Jerome kaino
-Mealmu
-and of course SBW
-tana umaga
-big inga tuigamala
-the great micheal jones
Imagine if they all chose samoa 1st and all blacks 2nd
-with the rugby academy in samoa, and euro rugby, and japan rugby, samoa will just get better, and at 2015 world cup the schedule will be fairer the IRB has said.
-would love to of seen manu tuilagi play for samoa not england
June 15th 2012 @ 4:57am
allblackfan said | June 15th 2012 @ 4:57am | Report comment
Johnno, no Samoan team last year were capable of beating the ABs.
No Pacific Island team from the last 30 years could have beaten an AB team from said period!
June 15th 2012 @ 9:06am
kovana said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Well at least Samoa has never lost to Zimbabwe.
June 15th 2012 @ 10:40am
Rusty said | June 15th 2012 @ 10:40am | Report comment
haha – excellent
June 15th 2012 @ 11:06am
Richie McCaw said | June 15th 2012 @ 11:06am | Report comment
3 years before 2011 Samoa lost 101-14 to the All Blacks. Nothing would of changed much in 2011. Games between other teams is not an indication of how well they will do against the All Blacks. The All Blacks have a unique style which all teams find hard to contain. Samoa, Fiji and Tonga play the perfect game tailor made for the All Blacks to score lots of points each and every time. Until they develop more structure more consistently they would struggle to contain the All Blacks for little more than 20 minutes.
June 15th 2012 @ 5:52am
mania said | June 15th 2012 @ 5:52am | Report comment
johno – khan or perenise wouldnt have made the AB’s. they were so far down the pecking order.
Ma Nonu , jerome Kaino, SBW and Kevin Melamu. would’ve made the manu. they may not have all started but they would’ve def been in the squad.
playing for a ‘prestigious’ club like LondonIrish doesnt make you automatically a great player. thats like saying every player in the crusaders is the best in the world. your comments about kaino and maa not having playd in europe demeaning their achievements is so wrong. they chose to stay in NZ to be AB’s. whats funny is both were nominated for IRB player of the year 2011.
i love manu, despite their player base being scattered across the world they more than do me proud. samoa wouldnt have beaten the AB’s but will i imagine one day soon. but before then they’ll take some more aussie scalps then the boks.
u obviously arent samoan but i appreciate your passion and support.
June 15th 2012 @ 10:29am
SAMURAI said | June 15th 2012 @ 10:29am | Report comment
Peter Hewat played for London Irish, does that make him a better player than Adam Ashley-Cooper, Kurtlet Beale and the half a dozen other Wallaby wingers/fullbacks?
June 15th 2012 @ 10:54am
Richie McCaw said | June 15th 2012 @ 10:54am | Report comment
Did you see the Samoan Fiji game.
June 15th 2012 @ 8:26pm
matthew said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:26pm | Report comment
Samoa the best rugby country in the world pound for pound. Consider all the legendary Samoans who turned out for the kiwis, and the likes of Manusamoa Tuilagi turning out for England and becoming the greatest current European centre. They’ve got so many forces working against them but are still an extremely competitive team even without much exposure to the other premier rugby nations.
June 16th 2012 @ 8:54am
Richie McCaw said | June 16th 2012 @ 8:54am | Report comment
They have done well.
June 15th 2012 @ 1:35am
kingplaymaker said | June 15th 2012 @ 1:35am | Report comment
Johnno sorry I just saw your yesterday much too late on Matt Hodgson’s thread: suffice to say I agree with it all especially the decadent attitude of JON and his administration.
If the ARU didn’t pillage Samoa’s players with the awful act of forcing them to declare for Australia simply to play in Australia rather than allowing them to choose, then the team would be even stronger. If they had regular competitions they would be stronger. If there’s a problem with crowds in Samoa itself the matches could be played in big Samoan cities such as Auckland and Sydney. It’s a disgrace but no suprise from the IRB who wish to keep the weak weak, especially the northern nations who so terribly fear defeat at the hands of Samoa. Interestingly the centre who will be playing for England this weak is called MANUSAMOA Tuilagi.
June 15th 2012 @ 5:57am
mania said | June 15th 2012 @ 5:57am | Report comment
KPM – agog i agree. the eligibility rules stop a lot of valuable players from playing for samoa despite have limited representation for other countries. aus do it and so do nz. its pretty disgraceful but within the IRB rules.
back in the 90′s there was a social tour of the NZ Samoans. the team boasted michaelJones, IngaTuigamala, frankBunce and eroniClark. they destroyed the NZ Maori’s, NZ Universities and the WellingtonLions. all the wins were cricket scores.
June 15th 2012 @ 2:34am
The Werewolf said | June 15th 2012 @ 2:34am | Report comment
I think sometimes we Australians forget that teams like Samoa and Scotland don’t just rock up with a bunch of amateurs.
In the case of Samoa the majority of them are dominant players in European club rugby.
In Scotland’s case their two main feeder sides, Edinburgh and Glasgow, were respective Heineken Cup and Pro12 semi-finalists a matter of weeks before they beat the Wallabies.
In both cases, when you put 15 professional athletes up against another 15 professional athletes there is no guarantee one will most certainly win over the other. Australia should only ever put out our best available against any opposition.
After the loss to Samoa you’d have thought O’neill might have realised this and not scheduled the Scotland match as he did. What do they say, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
June 15th 2012 @ 2:36am
Tautoko said | June 15th 2012 @ 2:36am | Report comment
KiwiDave … that’s such a random article! But I love it! and Johnno … the exploitation of Manu Samoa’s management team as well as IRB’s rugby politics (aka money.lol) has probably done more damage to the team than anything else. I firmly believe the calibre of talent that was recruited for Samoa’s RWC 2011 squad was hands down the most elite Manu team ever. Sure there have been great players over the years although never has Samoa assembled a team as great. PreRWC game against Australia’s so called B team? Lets be honest, no previous Samoan team would have had the same result let alone a win. And I’m over the ‘what if Samoans played for Samoa?’ question. As long as there is money to be made, this will always lead to discouragement. However I do like the idea of being able to play for a country of heritage for the World Cup. Let the players (if they choose) represent their country of heritage without rules that violate birthrights. This would be an ideal situation. The current problem is, once you represent a country (eg. Manu Tuilagi – ironically named Manusamoa) regardless of it being a RWC match or not, then rules state that you cannot represent another country. Bunce and Jones switched codes from Manu to ABs for probably a better (financially) deal. Lima didn’t. Where and what are they doing now? Whenever the World Cup ends, so too does the excitement for Manu Samoa. Pay day is a lot better if playing for the All Blacks, Wallabies, England or even France and pay day is also a lot more frequent throughout the year. All in all, Manu Samoa had an amazing team last year. Will such an elite team be assembled for 2015? Will anyone want to play for the Manu if management and IRB politics don’t change? The potential has always been there but when will it turn into success?
June 15th 2012 @ 2:56pm
Johnno said | June 15th 2012 @ 2:56pm | Report comment
Tautoko some excellent points, a very good comment.
That Samoa 2011 team for the RWC was a truly special team. It had a spirit that is hard to describe, kinda similar to the golden generation of socceroos in 2006 world cup . They had such good team spirit, took on the world, firmly believed they could win the world cup that full time professional team of manu samoa in 2011.
-And tournament rugby and state of origin , and things like that, as well are different format to regular season week to week grind and that Samoan 2011 squad was perfect type of players suited to tournament style rugby .
-The people of Samoa too knew it was special Tautoko and the whole country plus all the samoans in Australia and NZ, were right behind them, Samoa and Tonga were everybody’s 2nd favourite team to support at the world cup.
-And the people knew they were in with a chance to win that they via the telethon and donations gave the team any spare money they had, which is a big deal as samoa is not a rich nation and a small one.
-But sadly so many bad forces conspired to hurt Samoa RWC campaign it has been well covered .
-The iRB schedule
-and worst of all some of the terrible administrators that exist in samoan rugby , a lot of that money went missing or unaccounted for
-and the poor management and shamoblic training camps were all over the place sadly
-the players and fans wanted it badly but they were screwed at all angles by people they were suppose to trust which was so sad
-I watched a doco on it by TVNZ and with Mo Schwarger being interviewed. And it was a disgrace and shambolic what that Samoan playing squad had to put up with.
-I hope come rugby world cup 2015 the wounds have healed and the public in Samoa get behind the team again i fear it may not happen as they have been bruised badly the people of Samoa but there is hope.
June 15th 2012 @ 5:08am
Original Ben S said | June 15th 2012 @ 5:08am | Report comment
It’s not a case of suggesting Samoa are minnows, it’s that the side who are ranked 2nd in the world should be beating a side ranked near the bottom of the top ten. When was the last time Scotland beat England, Ireland, Wales, France, Scotland, NZ or SA? Scotland even fielded a B side the last time they met. This is simply attempting to deflect blame from Deans and Australia. It’s not disrespectful at all to suggest that Australia should not be losing to Samoa.
June 15th 2012 @ 6:03am
Damo said | June 15th 2012 @ 6:03am | Report comment
Kiwi Dave – this article has a logical flaw. Of course we respect Samoa . It was the selectors who didn’t.
When are you writing an article on the crusaders selectors for the rebels game?
Looks like an out of date excuse to have an Aussie bash to me.
June 15th 2012 @ 6:41am
justsaying said | June 15th 2012 @ 6:41am | Report comment
I think KD is referring more to the rugby public’s reaction ie “we should never lose to Samoa”. Samoa is getting good – their attack has always been good because of their natural flair, but in 2011 it was clear that their defensive game has stepped up as well. If they can carry this on they will take more big name scalps in years to come.
June 15th 2012 @ 4:26pm
Aussie Fan Club said | June 15th 2012 @ 4:26pm | Report comment
so the kiwis obviously dont give France respect, extreme arrogance, so much crying from NZ when they were denied by the superior French teams
June 15th 2012 @ 6:18am
mania said | June 15th 2012 @ 6:18am | Report comment
kiwiDave – havent agreed very often with u in the past but this article rocks.
considering the financial hardships that manu have to go through they more than punch above their weight. if the euro unions hadnt been so paranoid about the PI nations growing in dominance the last vote to relax the IRB elibility rules just before the last worldCup would’nt have been voted down.
the only thing missing for manuSamoa is the ability to build rapports and team work. having players scattered all over the world makes it hard to have a consistent team and build relationships and team work. what we lack in team work we make for in team spirit and prime samoan beef.
i dont mind the aussie underestimating the samoans it makes the victory that much sweeter and the grapes that much more bitter.
when samoa almost beat england at the 2003 WC martinJohnson afterwards had nothing but praise, repect and awe for manu but not ever did he say they were underestimated. he said from when they knew of the draw that they knew it would be a torrid battle.
and i have a question. why is samoa so often in the pool of death at these wc’s? (we’re gonna get those boks one day)
2003 South Africa, England, Samoa, Georgia, Uruguay
2007 England, Samoa, South Africa, Tonga, United States
2011 South Africa, Wales, Samoa, Fiji, Namibia
June 15th 2012 @ 9:18am
Rusty said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
pools are determined by IRB rank – so basically due to to fluctuations in both Samoa and Bok ratings we get drawn together. As a Bok supporter on one hand I dont mind as it means we dont get softened by an easy pool but on the other hand its always a tough hit out and one day….who knows
June 15th 2012 @ 9:39am
nickoldschool said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:39am | Report comment
True, it all depends on irb rankings at the time of the draw. 2015 rwc draw will take place on 3 December, hence the importance of these June series, the next rugby championship and november tours in the NH. Bar n1 spot ( AB), all other seeding positions are still up for grabs imo.
The top 12 being so close now, all groups could now be labelled ‘groups of death’ although a pool with 2 of the big southerners (possible if either Oz or SA arent in the top 4 on Dec 3), would be lethal.
A group with the AB, SA (or Wallabies), Samoa/Ireland, Fiji plus 1 “weaker” team is a possibility at this stage. Scary!
Band 1 – The four highest ranked directly qualified teams
Band 2 – The next four highest ranked directly qualified teams
Band 3 – The final four directly qualified teams
Band 4 – Oceania 1, Europe 1, Asia 1, Americas 1
Band 5 – Africa 1, Europe 2, Americas 2, Repechage winner
June 15th 2012 @ 9:52am
mania said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
yeah NOS i know how the pools are drawn just manu always seems to be in SA and some other 1 tier nation. all good tho as its made the boys harder and believe in themselves more. samoa’s improvement at WC i recekon can be attributed to playing the boks so often and knowing that they’re facing the hardest team in the rugby world
last game they were unlucky to lose but the boks were pushed to the limit and i’d never seen the boks take so much physical punishment before.
samoa has the balls now but need to be more clinical without sacrificing flare.
June 15th 2012 @ 10:06am
nickoldschool said | June 15th 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
yes, agree mania.
Would love manu to be in the top 8 this time and only play one one big team, plus say Scotland or Italy (no offense). Problem is they dont have many occasions to play top 8 teams and climb the ladder. Thats why i think the system is unfair to P.I nations (and non 6N/rugby championship nations).
June 15th 2012 @ 10:12am
mania said | June 15th 2012 @ 10:12am | Report comment
agree NOS. i dont know when it happened but manu has just fallen off the radar and levels of development and assistence have dropped. samoa is still developing though and the team gets better and better at set pieces every year.
its made harder for manu coming together as the players are scattered around the world. from one tournament to the next its a different team. only in the WC will samoan players in euro take on their clubs to be released . most of the other times they know its not worth the effort and risk of losing your contract.
still the spirit of rugby is alive and well in the pacific
June 15th 2012 @ 10:45am
Rusty said | June 15th 2012 @ 10:45am | Report comment
thats the trick isnt it. Samoa needs more games against the teams above them with a full complement of players so that they can climb the ladder into higher bands.
It says alot about the general pecking order when there is very little changes in the pool draw over the last 12 years
June 15th 2012 @ 10:53am
Rusty said | June 15th 2012 @ 10:53am | Report comment
On that note – the issue is again probably financial. Money to tour, pay the players and expected gate for opponents. Besides the reputational risk to being beaten, a host nation also will not draw as large a crowd if say they were playing a SANZAR country – thinking NH grandslam tours as being the best path to getting in that tier
June 15th 2012 @ 11:05am
mania said | June 15th 2012 @ 11:05am | Report comment
rusty – more than financial issues here. i was in samoa last year when there was fund raising done in samoa to pay for the team to go to the WC. little kids giving up their lunch money and families that really couldnt afford it hand over money.
samoa’s very corrupt in the upper admin echelons. so the as the money passes thru each each level a little bit gets taken by the higher up officials until by the time it gets to where it needs to its a trickle.
the faaSamoa (the samoan way) was has a lot to answer for. most of the tradition should remain (like the pride and respect) but the paying of si’i (gratuity to high officials and clergy) is outdated and needs to end.
samoa has its own economical and political problems to deal with that makes hard for the players yet still they perform and do the nation proud.
June 15th 2012 @ 9:48am
mania said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
rusty – the boks are the measuring stick of hardness in world rugby. if can play well vs the boks you can take on anyone. and one day i hope
June 20th 2012 @ 1:07pm
kiwidave said | June 20th 2012 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
Believe there are two kiwidaves and I am the one you don’t agree with. Been away for six weeks and now I find this. Time to think up a new moniker.
June 15th 2012 @ 8:37am
sixo_clock said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:37am | Report comment
Samoa could one day be able to provide a team that will demonstrate that (as mania says) prime Manu beef can outperform the rest of the world at the business end of the Rugby cycle. It will take planning, foresight, leadership and sacrifices by the entire squad.
KD is gilding the poisoned apple to say that no respect is accorded to Manu teams. But in the first test in 2011 we kicked for touch when we should have taken the points showing our thinking they were vulnerable in the tight, fast stuff, those on the field were wrong and paid the price. Also first game jitters, poor tackling technique and other failings made their job easier.
Saying that however, they do provide a lot of opportunities, silly pressure passes, getting isolated etc which no doubt is a result of enthusiasm. Rugby is most effective when it is cold-blooded, ruthless, determined. That is not a set of qualities Samoans admire at the moment, that can change.
June 15th 2012 @ 8:50am
mania said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:50am | Report comment
yes sixo_clock. manu samoa are definately not known for cold-blooded, ruthless, determination. more passion and fire in the blood and alot of throwing the ball around. though saying that manu have been getting more and more clinical in the set pieces but the best games have both. i thought in the wales game at the WC they were too clinical and were far too worried about the set pieces and lost some of their flare.
saying that tho players playing in europe have been the best thing for manu as they play together and against each other so get to know their team mates styles. shame they had to go all the way to europe and couldnt have achieved this in super rugby
June 15th 2012 @ 8:49am
nickoldschool said | June 15th 2012 @ 8:49am | Report comment
dunno if the wallabies underestimated Samoa last year. They just didnt turn up, like they didnt turn up against Ireland and Scotland 2 weeks ago. Surely they are not that dumb and should know by now they dont have a cushion against teams ranked 2 to 12: they have to be at their best (or near best) to win. They just dont have the quality to win games aginst desperate, quality sides who wnat the iwn more than them, i.e. Samoa, Ireland and Scotland. Same for others teams: france didnt turn up v Tonga = loss. 2 weeks later they almost won the rwc.
The only team who could win some games against these teams without being at 100% are the AB…and they do turn up 99.9% of the time anyway.
A very KD Friday article: light, provocative and easy but nice read nonetheless!
June 15th 2012 @ 9:02am
Bellringer said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:02am | Report comment
It’s funny how people continue to say that the loss to Samoa was embarrassing. I could probably see only 8 wallabies being certainties to make the Samoan side.
1. C. Johnson
2. M. Shwalger / S. Moore
3. Z. Taulofo
4. N. Sharpe
5. J. Horwill
6. M. Fa’asavaluu / S. Higginbotham
7. D. Pocock
8. W. Palu
9. W. Genia
10. Q. Cooper
11. A. Tuilagi
12. S. Mapusua
13. G. Pisi
14. D. Ioane
15. K. Beale
–
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June 15th 2012 @ 9:37am
justsaying said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:37am | Report comment
I reckon if you asked the Samoans they’d prefer Williams, Fotuali’i, Pisi and Thompson to Beale, Cooper, Genia and Palu…
June 15th 2012 @ 9:46am
mania said | June 15th 2012 @ 9:46am | Report comment
palu’s not good enough and its a no no. he’s tongan. they’d be rucking mauling before they got out of the changing rooms lol
June 15th 2012 @ 4:43pm
jeznez said | June 15th 2012 @ 4:43pm | Report comment
ha ha – no to Kepu, Timani, Timani, Polota-Nau, Palu, Pakalani….. When are we renaming my side the Waratongans?
June 15th 2012 @ 4:48pm
Johnno said | June 15th 2012 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
Or the warafricans jeznez. Vickerman, Pocock.