Why is Wallabies’ scrum falling apart again?
By jeznez, 18 Jun 2012 jeznez is a Roar Guru
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The Wallabies scrum is under pressure again. The Welsh were able to re-expose the Wallabies Achilles heel on Saturday, and it was not pretty.
A number of posters have indicated that they thought the Wallabies were dominant until Stephen Moore came on for Tatafu Polota-Nau. This is incorrect.
While Polota-Nau was on the field there were three scrums. The first saw the Wallabies win their own feed confidently driving forward, the referee missed Benn Robinson scrummaging with a hand on the ground though.
The second scrum saw the Wallabies win their own feed but under intense pressure and the front row was badly buckled before the ball was cleared.
The third scrum was a Welsh feed but finished with a free-kick to Wales as the Wallabies drove early.
There is no Wallaby dominance there, if there is a slight edge it is to Wales.
In the second half the scrum battle clearly went to the visitors, as well as Moore coming in for Polota-Nau, we saw Robinson replaced by Ben Alexander and Simmons’s scrummaging position taken by Dave Dennis.
Sekope Kepu had more and more trouble with Gethin Jenkins as the match progressed and Adam Jones had a field day.
Why is this happening again? Dan Palmer scrummaged very well in his debut Test match against Scotland. We saw the scrum deteriorate when he was replaced by Alexander. A scrum penalty against Australia led to Scotland winning the match, yet it is Alexander who stayed in the team for Wales.
With James Horwill injured, no driving second rower has been included in the match day 22. Rob Simmons and Nathan Sharpe are both predominantly lineout forwards; their scrummaging is not as good as Horwill, Sitaleki Timani or Kane Douglas.
Timani was injured against Scotland but I’ve seen newspaper photos of him involved in contact at Wallabies training since then. Timani, unlike, say, Quade Cooper, hasn’t been released from the Wallaby squad suggesting he is available. Kane Douglas was released from the squad but in my opinion should not have been.
Robbie Deans has been electing to cover the bench second rower position with Dave Dennis, who is predominantly a number 6. Deans appears to have wholeheartedly embraced the practice that has plagued Australian rugby for over a decade and is selecting players who are mobile while allowing the scrum to suffer.
This selection policy has brought a series win against Wales but by the narrowest of margins.
So how do we fix this? The immediate selection decisions that should apply for this week are to return Alexander for Palmer and to bring in Timani and Douglas at the expense of one of Rob Simmons and Nathan Sharpe. Based on current performance, I’d keep Sharpe.
If Deans is prepared to go with a 5-2 split on the bench he can keep the rest of his pack the same, if he wants to retain a 4-3 split then Michael Hooper has to make way.
Hooper is the one to make way not due to the knock-ons he made when he came on last week but due to Dave Dennis being the reserve lineout caller if anything happens to Sharpe.
Timani and Douglas have their doubters but playing half a game each is well within their capabilities. There is a risk if Sharpe gets injured early but the option to still use Dennis as a second row back up exists to ensure that the big boys aren’t too slow to play the game that Deans wants.
I know that Caderyn Neville and Hugh Pyle have their fans but both have issues in contact where they are a little high. This is in both the tackle and at the breakdown. I’d like to see them improve this before they get higher honours.
Also, the Rebels scrum is the worst of the Australian clubs in Super Rugby by a large margin, Neville and Pyle have to shoulder a large piece of that responsibility. Based on the performance of the Rebels scrum we have no evidence to believe that Neville or Pyle can help improve the Wallaby one.
The Wallabies may have won this series but they haven’t dominatede. The scrum woes are a huge concern as the Rugby Championship looms later in the year.
The scrum has been a problem for a decade now, unlike prior years there are some obvious selections available to fix it.
Will Deans make those selection decisions for this final Test?
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June 18th 2012 @ 4:21pm
Johnno said | June 18th 2012 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
i think rob simians is to blame as well. With dan vickerman there the scrum is strong without him it lacks grunt.
June 18th 2012 @ 4:50pm
Atawhai Drive said | June 18th 2012 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
Rob “Simians”!
That’s what we need in the scrum all right _ a couple of apes.
Your freudian misspellings are a constant source of delight, Johnno.
June 18th 2012 @ 9:07pm
Johnno said | June 18th 2012 @ 9:07pm | Report comment
lol Atawahi drive yes i think i have had many 1 to many freudian slips.
June 18th 2012 @ 9:20pm
Mick said | June 18th 2012 @ 9:20pm | Report comment
*too (not to)
(sorry, couldn’t resist)
June 18th 2012 @ 9:39pm
Moreton Bait said | June 18th 2012 @ 9:39pm | Report comment
Johnno, thought your Visocunt (for Viscount – as in Crouchback) in one of your posts yesterday was a classic!
June 18th 2012 @ 4:30pm
the other Steve - and AB / Hurricanes fan said | June 18th 2012 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
Good article.
I thought there were a couple of slightly early engages by the Wallabies in the first half that went un-noticed by the referee.
June 19th 2012 @ 12:11pm
jeznez said | June 19th 2012 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
Pollock picked one early engagement out of the three scrums in the first half. Wallabies got done for early engagements another two times in the second half. The early hit is always one of the first things a scrum under pressure tries – so not really surprising.
Alexander also gave away a penalty for shoulders below hips (which is just a poorly exectued attempt to get low) and you can tell the Aussie’s knew they were under pressure and were trying to find a way through it.
June 22nd 2012 @ 2:08pm
Mike said | June 22nd 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
Why is Alexander’s shoulders-below-hips a “poorly executed attempt to get low”, while when Geithin Jenkins does it you say he was trying to milk a penalty?
June 18th 2012 @ 4:39pm
Sam Taulelei said | June 18th 2012 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
Nice analysis and summation Jeznez.
I’m another one who couldn’t fathom Deans selection of Dennis as the third locking option to accomodate Hooper on the bench as well.
I get the feeling that the Wallaby front row is going to be created by circumstance rather than by design i.e Palmer will only get his chance through injury, seize his opportunity and then everyone will be scratching their heads wondering why he wasn’t there in the first place.
KPM is an easy target for scorn with some of his comments but from day one he’s been forthright in the selection of Timani at lock and I agree with him. With no Horwill or Vickerman available, the Wallabies need a tighthead lock who’s there for his strength and physical presence.
With a couple of selection tweaks in the tight five and continued specialist scrum coaching, the Wallabies will have a pretty decent forward pack.
June 19th 2012 @ 12:12pm
jeznez said | June 19th 2012 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
Well we have our wish – Timani has been brought in this week.
You look like you are going to be correct on Palmer, he has been ignored again.
June 18th 2012 @ 5:02pm
SandBox said | June 18th 2012 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
WBs website says Blades has had the job since 2004. Apart from when we toured NH and our scrum was strong for a few months, can anyone else remember when we had a scrum?
Surely Dingo and the rest must be aware of this and working on it. Is it the playing pool? Have never understood our scrum, it seems to always hold us back, and let us down when we need it, e.g. RWC 2011
June 18th 2012 @ 5:04pm
Jutsie said | June 18th 2012 @ 5:04pm | Report comment
last time the scrum was strong was when blades and richard harry were packing down.
Im pretty sure blades has not been scrum coach since 2004, Pato Noriega was coach for the last few years and michael foley was before that. If I recall correctly foley was scrum coach during that short period of resurgence.
June 18th 2012 @ 5:20pm
SandBox said | June 18th 2012 @ 5:20pm | Report comment
Yes of course, can see Noriega in coaching box all the time, just didn’t mention him on website. Still love to hear from someone who can explain our scrum form. I hear so many overseas commentators perplexed at how we do so well with the scrum we have, and then add thoughts of how good we’d be with a good scrum. To look at the players and pack weights, you’d think we’d do better. SA and England to often produce bigger props, but we seem similar or stronger to most teams otherwise. Is the scrum not so important as these commentators make out?
June 18th 2012 @ 6:13pm
nickoldschool said | June 18th 2012 @ 6:13pm | Report comment
I reckon the wallabies would have a few more trophies (TN, Bledisloes or rwc) with a good scrum. No doubt our guys are strong and big but they just dont gel as a unit. When one sees what a good scrum (Ireland last w-e v the AB) does to a team, you just wonder why we don;t focus more on that.
Reckon the fact it has not much importance at SR level explains why its neglected here, while its vital In the English, French or Rabo 12 leagues. Its more mental than anything else ( i mean our mental approach to the ‘battle’ that is a scrum),
June 18th 2012 @ 5:44pm
The Werewolf said | June 18th 2012 @ 5:44pm | Report comment
Good article.
I think we need to bite the bullet with Sharpe. If he is retiring after the next match we needed to have phased him out and have a lock on the bench to give that player more test experience. If it is Timani or Douglas so be it.
Longer term Timani and Douglas are our biggest locks and with the trend of locks from other nations just getting bigger and bigger these two need some of Deans investment in them, so yes I agree sending Douglas home was not pleasing.
Next year for instance Grey and Charteris could form the largest lock combo in test history. More likely Grey and Lawes if fit.
June 18th 2012 @ 6:16pm
bluerose said | June 18th 2012 @ 6:16pm | Report comment
agree, with an English forntrow, Grey/Lawes in 2nd row, Tom Croft/Sean O’Brien and Morgan in the backrow and we might as well hand them the Lions series coz thats one heck of a pack, then you have Roberts/Tuilagi in the midfield and Cuthbert/North/Kearney at the back, it will probably the most balanced, heaviest, biggest Lions team ever.
June 18th 2012 @ 6:34pm
Jutsie said | June 18th 2012 @ 6:34pm | Report comment
Morgan has been average against the boks, faletau or heaslip would be better bets. Forward pack will be an issue but then most forward packs are an issue for the wallabies.
The backline does not worry me as much, there are no real stand-out scrumhalfs and only sexton is really putting his hand up for the 5/8 gig.
June 18th 2012 @ 6:44pm
The Werewolf said | June 18th 2012 @ 6:44pm | Report comment
Surely Youngs put his hand up on saturday?
Besides him Care is the best option for him so long as his off field dramas cease to hold him back.
Morgan is a rare talent. His MoM peformance in the last 6 nations was something else and he has been good against the Saffas but is clearly not fully fit having not played for awhile.
June 18th 2012 @ 6:53pm
Jutsie said | June 18th 2012 @ 6:53pm | Report comment
I’ll take your word on his 6 nations form I didn’t watch many of the england games (only caught a few wales matches) but his performance against wasn’t at the same standard as faletau’s in the world cup.
Your right, Youngs would be the best option at scrumhalf but do you think gatland may stick with phillips? I hope so……
June 18th 2012 @ 7:57pm
The Werewolf said | June 18th 2012 @ 7:57pm | Report comment
Phillips is a bully and would suit a more bullying style than wales. I’ve always felt that he would be better suited behind an English pack and vice versa with Youngs for the Welsh who play a quicker more dynamic game up front.
I suppose it will depend on the lions style of play as to who will get the nod at no 9 but again I’d be going for a dynamic pack and hence with Danny Care at 9 with Youngs on at the 55-60min mark.
June 19th 2012 @ 5:16am
Colin N said | June 19th 2012 @ 5:16am | Report comment
“Phillips is a bully and would suit a more bullying style than wales. I’ve always felt that he would be better suited behind an English pack and vice versa with Youngs for the Welsh who play a quicker more dynamic game up front.”
Wales are a conservative side, hence the reason why Phillips is the number one scrum-half.
As for Morgan, he hadn’t played for a few months because of injury and he’s the sort of player who needs regular games to get back to full fitness.
June 18th 2012 @ 6:38pm
The Werewolf said | June 18th 2012 @ 6:38pm | Report comment
The lions will be bigger than the wallabies there is no doubt so our boys will need to earn their money this time next year. No-one’s going to be handing anything over though.
Big fan of Morgan playing at no 8! Good call. I would expect Warburton and Lydiate or Ferris to be ahead of Croft /O’Brien and the front row could be any no of combinations otherwise i think give or take that’s the likely side.
Wallabies need to hope it doesn’t rain!
June 18th 2012 @ 6:44pm
Jutsie said | June 18th 2012 @ 6:44pm | Report comment
Or play every game under the roof at etihad
June 19th 2012 @ 10:03am
Bakkies said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:03am | Report comment
A big problem with Morgan is his size, fitness and work rate. The Wallabies like to play a fast game and if it’s too quick he will be a liability.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Ross Ford and/or Rory Best are in the squad at hooker. Matthew Rees toured in 2009 and was pretty poor. He struggled at scrum and lineout time.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:08am
Ben S said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:08am | Report comment
I thought Rees was exceptional in 2009. The Lions scrum dominated with him in it and the lineout was pretty strong too.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:19am
Jutsie said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Rees was throwing lollie-pops on saturday, he won’t starting if he continues to throw like that.
June 19th 2012 @ 11:54am
Bakkies said | June 19th 2012 @ 11:54am | Report comment
Did you watch the First Test? The Lions scrum got Bryced. Lawrence let the Beast bore in until Adam Jones came on and the Lions got back in the game. The scrum penalties Vickery and co conceeded cost them the game. The Lions lineout badly missed Jerry Flannery’s throwing (especially with O’Connell in the lineout). Flannery was the original hooker selected and easily the best thrower around.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:13pm
Ben S said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:13pm | Report comment
Rees didn’t start the first Test. Lee Mears did.
June 18th 2012 @ 7:13pm
Ben S said | June 18th 2012 @ 7:13pm | Report comment
Interesting article from an actual front rower.
June 18th 2012 @ 7:33pm
Justin2 said | June 18th 2012 @ 7:33pm | Report comment
Deans has an option if he wants to take a 5-2 bench – Lucas can play 9,10 or 15, throw in AF on the bench and no matter what happens we have a capable back line firing.
Now considering Genia plays every minute I wonder what the use of White is on the bench if Lucas can adequately cover his role. Am a big fan of White but he isnt going to play so whats the point?
If not then you have a hooker, prop, lock and loosie with 3 backs. All comes down to what type of game you wish to play as to which loosie you have on the bench. IMO you take Hooper and play a fast game (especially when we get the 3 drunks back on deck) as we have plenty of Line Out options in the locks and backrow.
June 18th 2012 @ 7:35pm
Behold said | June 18th 2012 @ 7:35pm | Report comment
Lucas was injured in the Reds Hurricanes match that was played on the weekend. Kingi is another option for a 9 that plays multiple positions.
June 18th 2012 @ 8:52pm
Justin2 said | June 18th 2012 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
Thanks behold, didn’t know that ;(
June 18th 2012 @ 8:40pm
Adelaide rugby fan said | June 18th 2012 @ 8:40pm | Report comment
Firstly I do not agree at the slightest moment Wallabies’ scrum falling apart. I do not know which game you watched mate. Yes it went off the second half due new to prop Alexander (he is known for this remember him subbed in test against France 2010) but the trio of NSW did very well. I wonder jeznez whether you can attempt to apply to be technical advice for Wallabies scrum.
Remember starting the Welsh test series was not done in the best possible scenario – the lost to Scotland, both NZ and SA have a full week preps for the start of their test series, injuries to lot of forward players. They no doubt in my mind contribute to Dean bringing his test team based on available experience. Remember the full game of rugby is not just scrum scrum scrum, there are other facets of the game, If you can get B+ across your game facet, like lineouts, breakdowns, open play, collision area, pick and go etc … for the forwards then you will be very nicely placed to get a win. It is the same a player who is so all-round in his game – remember Larkham a very good first five but does not get a good kicking game – the English, French and Argentineans are very good scrummagers but not really good in other facet of the games
Please Australia scrum is much better than it was – the forward play against Welsh was the best for awhile I have seen the wallabies. You can get scrum close 100% but can never be absolutely 100% be good. Remember Wales were 6 nations champion for a reason in the same way Australia a Tr-Nation champs for a reason.
June 18th 2012 @ 8:55pm
Justin2 said | June 18th 2012 @ 8:55pm | Report comment
Wow that settles it then, Jez you were way off
June 18th 2012 @ 9:31pm
Moreton Bait said | June 18th 2012 @ 9:31pm | Report comment
Good article / analysis yet again Jeznez! Agree with all of it.
It seems the selectors are keen to have a solid lineout and wish for three jumpers to mix it up. Thought Simmons presented a very reliable lineout target in both Wales tests, and perhaps was being tutored a little in calling by Sharpe. Maybe the strategic focus was on lineout more than the scrum. Both starting props went OK especially Kepu without a tighhead lock behind him.
Next test I’d like to see Timani given a start behind Palmer. Cannot see what Alexander is bringing (apart from guaranteed collapses)
1.Robinson, 2.TPN, 3.Palmer, 4.Simmons, 5.Timani, 6.Higginbotham, 7.Pocock, 8.Palu: – Moore, Kepu, Sharpe, Dennis
June 18th 2012 @ 10:14pm
Johnno said | June 18th 2012 @ 10:14pm | Report comment
Moreton Bait why are you big fan of rob simians he is very average, goes invisible, surly sharpe or hugh pyle or kane douglas are better than Rob Simmons. Rob simians cops a lot of flack but it is justified he really doesn’t contribute much.
June 19th 2012 @ 1:15am
Moreton Bait said | June 19th 2012 @ 1:15am | Report comment
I’m beyond being a big fan of anyone Johnno. This squad has trained with Sharpe and Simmons running the lineout, that’s their primary role so I expect that one or both will be involved on game day. I don’t know enough about Pyle and Neville in the context of this squad. Douglas has been released from the squad. Timani, if fit, I think deserves another run in the 5 shirt.
Simmons’ performance in open play has been imrpoving, he has been making some good tackles and provided a pivotal pick and drive before Higginbotham’s try in the first test, but needs to work harder.
Not wise to play more than 2 rookie forwards, so no more Hooper. Could this be Sharpe’s last test?
June 18th 2012 @ 10:12pm
PeterK said | June 18th 2012 @ 10:12pm | Report comment
I do agree that Palmer has to come into it, although my preference would be from the bench.
Since the series is won and we can afford to experiment not that big an issue either way.
However since we may experiment , IMO Timani has had a few chances and has not really shone, Douglas even less so at super level despite all his chances.
I would experiment further and start Neville and Pyle. Sure they may run into contact / breakdowns too high BUT Neville especially has the size for the lock with power for the scrum. The rebels props are fairly poor and that is the reason for their poor scrum IMO.
Simmons is the new Mumm and has no impact other than in the lineout.
I do accept Timani had little chance to shine in the conditions against Scotland.
We also need to find a lock to replace Sharpe calling the lineouts, Simmons has been tried and is sorely wanting.
So why not find out and really take a risk. Start Neville and Pyle with Timani on the bench!
June 19th 2012 @ 1:22am
Moreton Bait said | June 19th 2012 @ 1:22am | Report comment
Yes, Kepu / Palmer agreed not that big an issue. But, we’ve seen how Kepu goes with Timani locking behind him at the Waratahs. If Palmer and Timani start we get to see how they perform on the tighthead side – seemed not bad against Scotland. If it all goes pear shaped then easy to revert to the tried Kepu / Sharpe combo as per the first two tests.