Andrew Phillips and Jeremy Cameron of the Giants in front of a disappointing crowd (AFL Media)
Related coverage
- Rugby Union news
- NRL news
- AFL news
- Toyota Premiership news
- GWS Giants news
- 2013 Wallabies squad news
Yes, I know this is yet another fluff piece on the GWS Giants. And yes, I know I’m a critic of people looking to write such pieces just for fun and, for a lack of a better phrase, to piss people off.
Hypocrisy, thy name is me. Right?
Well sure, I have at times been guilty of commentating on topics such as crowd numbers between the AFL and NRL which has been somewhat cheeky, however I like to think of such topics as thought-provoking.
And that’s what I’m trying to do here.
See, I’m faced with a conundrum.
GWS are playing spirited football. On field, they play a real team orientated brand of football, they are absolutely inundated with talent and it’s bloody scary to think how dominant they will be in four or five years’ time.
Off field, they’ve done a lot of things correctly: They’ve engaged with the community, set up a nice little nest at Breakfast Point which helps the team gel incredibly well and they’ll be financially stable for the foreseeable future, at which point they’ll most likely be a well-run team both on and off the field.
But at the moment, the crowd numbers are significantly underwhelming, and must be of a growing concern among league administrators at AFL House.
You’ve most likely heard certain phrases bandied around in an attempt to put on a façade that will convince people that everything is alright: “It’s a long term plan”, “We don’t expect to see results straight away”, “Rome wasn’t built in a day”, you get the drift.
But when eleven-odd thousand rock up to your first game at your new home ground and the second game has four thousand less than the previous, you have to start looking at the reasons behind these shortcomings.
Well, the Richmond game that drew seven thousand was played in pouring rain, which doesn’t help bring people to the game. As I’ve stated in another article, the problem could lie with an identity crisis of sorts, with the Giants failing to wholly commit to a specific area and playing home games at several venues. And one can’t deny the fact that Australian Football isn’t a major sport in Sydney’s west.
Those reasons alone could be the answer to the question.
However, I believe the problem lies deeper. Not just with Australian Football or the area it’s played in, not the weather, not even the identity crisis.
Sydney, in my opinion is a city that; teamed up with its citizens’ love of watching games on TV and the fact it’s so spread out geographically, means that overall, it’s generally poor at attending sports events.
The NRL has attendances averaging in between 10-20,000 for twelve teams. Rugby union has the Waratahs, who represent the whole of New South Wales, yet they only average 20,000. The A-League has Sydney FC, a team that represents an entire city and state, yet only averages 12,000 per match, even though association football is among the most popular codes in Sydney. And the AFL still averages around 15,000 between the two Sydney teams.
It doesn’t say that the AFL is more popular than football, and it doesn’t say that league is weak.
It simply means that Sydneysiders enjoy their living rooms more than travelling to Parramatta Stadium and forking out a lot of money for the associated costs that come along with sporting events.
I love going to Crows games, eating a Vili’s Pie and drinking a Farmers Union Iced Coffee. But then again, that’s the culture.
Many Croweaters, Sandgropers and Victorians have grown up going to the footy in rain, hail or shine to support their team.
The fact that Sydneysiders choose their couch over a bucket-seat at ANZ Stadium is a simple way to figure out why things are the way they are in Sydney.
It doesn’t mean they’re lazy or don’t support their club as much as Melbournians support their favourite AFL team.
People from Sydney love their league, and by looking at the television figures, their tradition of sitting in front of the TV with the kids and having a quiet beer and a packet of chips is just as important to them as a day at Football Park with a barbecue set up behind a Land Rover is to a Croweater.
So there it is, Roarers. What do you think? Is GWS in for decades of lacklustre crowds? Have I hit the nail on the head in regards the different cultures that divide Melbournians and Sydneysiders in the way they support their team or sport of choice?
Or is it just another fluff piece? I bloody hope not.
The Crowd Says (257) | Page 1 of Comments
Do you have what it takes to become a sports writer? Write for the roar
AFL articles
- Record low AFL crowd for GWS home match (209)
- Giant challenges ahead for Greater Western Sydney (200)
- Three Sydney teams? Sheedy’s being greedy (184)
- Kevin Sheedy sticks by comments (143)
- Lack of accountability now haunts the AFL (125)
- Rules and umpires ruining the game (102)
- The AFL expansion story isn’t good enough (91)
- Fremantle Dockers vs Sydney Swans: AFL live scores, blog (80)
- Collingwood vs Geelong: AFL live scores, blog (84)
- Gold Coast Suns vs Western Bulldogs: AFL live scores
- Essendon vs Brisbane Lions: AFL live scores (6)
- Hawthorn vs GWS Giants: AFL live scores, blog (64)
- Bombers bank on big AFL game from Ryder
- Magpies will fight back in AFL, says Ball
- Fremantle Dockers vs Sydney Swans: AFL live scores, blog (80)
- Collingwood vs Geelong: AFL live scores, blog (84)
- Gold Coast Suns vs Western Bulldogs: AFL live scores (1)
- Essendon vs Brisbane Lions: AFL live scores (6)
- Hawthorn vs GWS Giants: AFL live scores, blog (64)
- Dockers can win the flag in 2013 (17)
- West Coast Eagles vs North Melbourne: AFL live scores, blog (138)
Recommend this story.
- Explore:
- AFL, GWS Giants, NRL, Rugby Union

June 19th 2012 @ 6:19am
Mike said | June 19th 2012 @ 6:19am | Report comment
Look out Rodney I can hear the pitter patter of the nutter brigade already ! Personally I think your article is very balanced and probably correct. The culture of the sporting publics of Melbourne and Sydney are very different. However the AFL zealots see that as a weakness for all sports in Sydney and a badge of honour for the AFL.
I posted on another article that I went to the Gws game on Saturday from the northern beaches. I went on public transport and it took neary 5 hours of travel on different trains and buses to get there and back. I cited that as a reason GWS as well as RL and other sports in Sydney don’t get the attendances that the AFL gets. For my trouble I got labled a ‘troll’ by the usual suspects, unbelieveable considering I had spent all day and half the night travelling to and from a game of AFL.
Anyway, good luck with the article, and I hope you’ve got your hard hat on !!
June 19th 2012 @ 8:22am
Redb said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:22am | Report comment
So to sum up Mike:
I’m right your all zealouts.
June 19th 2012 @ 7:56am
AIS said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:56am | Report comment
To be honest, there’s no good excuse.
It doesn’t matter if a game is on the opposite side of a city. It’s still one city and it’s not that far.
In other countries, people regularly travel far greater distances to see their teams play in far worse conditions than you’d experience in Australia. Also, many people from other countries would be shocked at how cheap the prices of admission are for sports in Australia.
Another thing that’s a little interesting is the Brisbane Broncos attendance. Look at their home games so far this year. They play in a stadium that holds 52,500 people and in chronological order, their figures are as follows: 43,171 | 38,012 | 30,017 | 30,083 | 41,273 | 26,683
That seems pretty poor to me, especially when they’re the one & only nrl team in a city with a population well over 2 million people.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:30am
chrisc101 said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Slightly off topic, couldn’t agree more about Broncos crowds. Very overstated for the so called home of rugby league.
June 19th 2012 @ 1:54pm
Jaceman said | June 19th 2012 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
And they are talking about a second Brisbane teaam???
June 19th 2012 @ 10:28pm
matt h said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:28pm | Report comment
When will we just accept that not as many people watch live sport in Sydney and Brisbane as they do in Melbourne. Not better, not worse, just fact.
June 19th 2012 @ 3:34pm
dishes said | June 19th 2012 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
The structure of the city is a good excuse, for anyone that has tried to get around Sydney. The public transport is a JOKE. Melbourne is one of the easiest modern cities to get around in the world, Sydney is one of the hardest. That’s the only reason. You cant have terrible public transport and just ‘expect’ it not to affect people.
June 19th 2012 @ 4:09pm
JamesP said | June 19th 2012 @ 4:09pm | Report comment
That’s pretty poor – that average is about as good as Freo get in the AFL – Perth’s 2nd team, in a city smaller than Brisbane.
West Coast get sold out 40k average because Subi just cant take any more…Soon to be fixed with new 60k stadium.
June 19th 2012 @ 4:10pm
Ken said | June 19th 2012 @ 4:10pm | Report comment
I do basically agree – the Broncos should be averaging even more than that (although characterising those numbers as anything other than very healthy is a long bow. It should be noted though that many Brisbane RL don’t support the Broncos. Being a relatively new team there are plenty of supporters of older teams up here. Also, like me, there are a fair few transplanted people here from NSW and Victoria who either support other teams or AFL respectively.
June 20th 2012 @ 12:02pm
JamesP said | June 20th 2012 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
WCE played their first season in 1987, Broncos in 1988 so are similar.
AFL fans in WA no doubt followed and still do follow clubs in Melbourne. Eagles have about 10k on the waiting list….
The parallels are quite similar. Any way you cut it, Broncos should be doing a lot better. Maybe Brisbane is not ready for a second team after all…
June 20th 2012 @ 12:22pm
Ben said | June 20th 2012 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
Maybe a second Brisbane NRL team will help. There has to be people in Brisbane that hate the Broncos just like people hated WCE (who are now mostly Dockers supporters). The spitefulness of Western Derbies makes them great contests. A Broncos vs 2nd Brisbane team would make for some great games.
June 20th 2012 @ 12:29pm
Ads said | June 20th 2012 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
The Brisbane Bombers perhaps? To emulate the great clashes between the Broncos and the Crushers?
June 20th 2012 @ 12:38pm
Ben said | June 20th 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
Ok, maybe not like the Crushers. They were different times then.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:00am
Norm said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:00am | Report comment
Yes, I can hear the “pitter patter” already, Mike!
I want to correct you on one point, tho. It is not a difference between the sporting cultures of Sydney & Melbourne…..it is a difference between Sydney & every other city in Australia. Adelaide, Perth & Brisbane get just as good attendances as Melbourne by % of population. Sydney is the odd man out. It is incredible that Australia’s largest city gets such pathetic attendances at it’s most popular sport (NRL). Having lived in Sydney & discussed this issue with friends there, I have heard all the reasons/excuses – & transport is a legitimate one. But perhaps it has a lot to do with the Sydney attitude to the rest of Australia – & it’s fairly negative, especially with that code of football invented in Melbourne!
Now lets look out for Nadir
June 19th 2012 @ 8:39am
Matt F said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:39am | Report comment
Sydney’s population advantage is taken away when you consider the number of teams that it supports compared to the rest. Sydney has 13 teams from the four football codes (soon to be 14 with the new A-League side) dividing up its support. Brisbane has 4, Perth has 4 and Adelaide has 3. 3-4x the population doesn’t mean that much when you are supporting 3-4x more teams.
Melbourne of course is a clear exception to this and are in a league of their own when it comes to attendances.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:05am
Titus said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
Sydney is the heartland of Rugby, Rugby League and Football…….more people in NSW play Football than the rest of Australia combined, Rugby is like a religion in certain areas of Sydney as is League.
League is our mainstream sport, the only one on FTA(along with AFL), but it is not necessarily our sport of choice. We all watch it on telly have a team but are not necessarily involved enough to regularly go to games.
Yes Melbourne has a League and a Union team, but as with AFL in Sydney, these teams are mainly viewed by expats.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:13am
Brewski said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:13am | Report comment
What !!, SBS has wall to wall soccer, Shute shield on the ABC etc etc
Get a grip mate.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:20am
Titus said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:20am | Report comment
How does SBS showing football from around the world translate into crowds in Sydney?
June 19th 2012 @ 9:24am
Brewski said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:24am | Report comment
You stated that League is the only one on FTA TV, …. your wrong !!.
If soccer is the sport of choice, why does this not show on ratings ?, …. your wrong again.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:30am
Titus said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:30am | Report comment
Fair enough Brewski, you’re right, it’s just a matter of them winning and Sydney overcoming it’s pathetic supporter culture.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:36am
Brewski said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Competetive would be a good start, pretty hard to get support for a new team in a area where the code is not that popular, to games where you never win.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:41am
Titus said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
But it’s like putting another Rugby League team in Melbourne and saying “once they start winning, the crowds will flock”..
June 19th 2012 @ 9:49am
Brewski said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Can you actually read ?, i said competetive, there is a big difference between winning a premiership, and being competetive, and there is a big difference between deathriding a team, and giving it a fair go.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:59am
Titus said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:59am | Report comment
Well you have to start winning to be competitive, so nothing wrong with my statement.
Did I say something about winning the premiership?
June 19th 2012 @ 12:16pm
King Robbo said | June 19th 2012 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
SBS only shows champion leagues games live. These are on in the middle of the night as well – out of rating times.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:34am
clipper said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Titus – you’re right. In Sydney league is not necessarily our sport of choice – as you say Rugby is like a religion in certain areas and Football has a strong following (especially in junior participation – it would far outstrip league in the more affluent areas). This is what the AFL states don’t understand. In their states Aussie Rules is their sport of choice everywhere.
June 20th 2012 @ 2:48pm
Kasey said | June 20th 2012 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
I consider it no small irony that for years AFL fans have used their extraordinary attendance figures to bash the viability and worthiness to exist of other sports. In fact when the Second Sydney team was first entertained, My impression of the mood inside the ‘AFL roolz!!’ bubble was, we’ve just got to show these heathens what a real sport looks like and they will immediately fall in love with it. Of course these crowd figures must come as a shock to those types of people. Those of us sports fans who watch other sports and venture out of our state more often than the Collingwood footy team understood that Sydney is a peculiar beast. For the time being and into the foreseeable future I expect anybody with a real or perceived grudge against the AFL and its fans to take a bit of childish pleasure in these articles. Some will feel they’ve finally ‘got one’ on the bully. As for me, the draw for my preferred sport was released yesterday so I’m already focused on planning my away trips. FWIW I do intend to visit ‘ TBA Stadium’
this year, mentally planning for Parramatta.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:01am
Barry said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:01am | Report comment
Couldn’t agree more, it’s absoultly all about the culture. Fanatical support, memberships, going to support your team rain/hail/shine, you even get crowds to training sessions. This is not the only way to define a codes popularity it is simply Melbourne culture and one that right or wrong many people in Sydney feel is being forced on them by the AFL,
June 19th 2012 @ 10:20am
Minister for Information for the Democratic People's Republic of Football said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Spot on Barry! I’ve said this before on the Roar ,(aka super G), one thing Sydneysiders do not do is support our teams rain, hail or shine. And people will not put up with RUBBISH.
Whether you’re a Parra,Penrith,Waratah,Swans or Sydney FC fan it’s the same story.If the product being delivered is a turd on a stick people will after a while refuse to put up with it and will stop attending.
So, what does this mean? Are Sydneysiders uncommited, wishy-washy phonies compared to Melbourne football fans or do they simply have more self respect and are not brainwashed lemmings who will flock to watch a team like say Richmond week in week out when they haven’t done diddly squat in I don’t know how many decades?
Whose the one with the problem here?
June 19th 2012 @ 10:27am
Brewski said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:27am | Report comment
I think your the one with the problem ……. look at your name !!.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:47am
Minister for Information for the Democratic People's Republic of Football said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Not big on humour are you Brewski. Lighten up my friend.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:56am
Brewski said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:56am | Report comment
Yes, yes i am huge on humour, not a fan of Eastern European or North Korean humour though !.
June 19th 2012 @ 11:05am
Minister for Information for the Democratic People's Republic of Football said | June 19th 2012 @ 11:05am | Report comment
Neither am I, don’t worry. Just a bit of fun.
Ok, I’ll change my profile to John because we haven’t got enough Johns,Johnnos,Johnos etc. on the Roar.
Anyway, enough of this self-indulgent crap and let’s get back to the topics at hand.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:04am
Norm said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:04am | Report comment
Barry – see my comment above. It is not a Melbourne culture. I grew up in Adelaide & it was the same there. Perhaps it is an Aussie Rules culture?
June 19th 2012 @ 8:22am
Captain Obvious said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:22am | Report comment
Many Sydneysiders are bandwagon supporters.
Swans in 1996, Wests Tigers in 2005, Parramatta in 2009… need I go on?
June 19th 2012 @ 8:25am
Redb said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:25am | Report comment
I think you nailed it Captain. GWS have won one game, lets see how they with a few more wins under their belt.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:01am
Rodney Penny said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:01am | Report comment
I’m not so sure. I do agree with you on the Swans in 1996/97. I think in 1997, they had an average attendance of 36,000.
I can’t really comment about Wests in ’05 or Parramatta in ’09 as I’m not all that knowledgeable on Rugby League crowds.
But you look at the Sydney Swans. They’ve been such a great side for many, many years. I think they’ve missed out on the finals three times in the past seventeen years. They’ve been a beacon of success, and while they get pretty good crowds, for such a successful team, they should be getting more.
If they win the premiership, I’m sure there’ll be a spike in interest. However, for how well the Swans have been travelling, there’s no doubt their attendances should be higher.
But then again, it’s the Sydney culture.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:23am
Redb said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:23am | Report comment
I wonder if the Swans will get less than 13,500 this Friday night? Swans crowds are plummetting as the city reacts agaisnt the invasion forces from the AFL. If they get less this Friday night what does that mean for the code?
June 19th 2012 @ 8:44am
Christo the Daddyo said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:44am | Report comment
Nice try Redb, but the game is almost sold out.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:46am
Redb said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
Hang On Christo, are you saying there has been a surge of support for the AFL again in Sydney.
Gee that will upset a few on the Roar .
June 19th 2012 @ 9:18am
Brewski said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Problems with Tticketmaster, no SCG members attending Swans games can get guest passes this year, Swans members of many years standing, in the same spot. have been shuffled around the SCG, weather etc etc.
The surge in support will just be amazing this week !!.
June 19th 2012 @ 12:30pm
Redb said | June 19th 2012 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Seriously, you mean a crowd bigger than 13,500 is going to turn up to AFL in Sydney. Well it looks like the doomsayers were wrong.
June 19th 2012 @ 4:33pm
Christo the Daddyo said | June 19th 2012 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
Actually the Swans have averaged over 20,000 for all of their home games (bar the Bulldogs one) despite having the SCG at significantly reduced capacity due to the construction work happening.
Nothing wrong with the Swans support in Sydney…
June 20th 2012 @ 1:30pm
JVGO said | June 20th 2012 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
I guess Clipper and his socially superior mates have decided to put on their red and white going out gear and head out to mingle…… with each other. The weather is fine. The swans are on top of the ladder. Maybe we should send Clipper on a fact finidng mission asking the fans ‘where have you been?’ Maybe origin got them riled up. Anyway it shows that the renovations weren’t the reason for the drop off in crowds as everyone was claiming on the roar, and if it is a sell out at least we’ll know the real capacity of the SCG.
June 20th 2012 @ 2:34pm
JVGO said | June 20th 2012 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
Of course I forgot that the prospect of beating Geelong at any sport is enough to get any real Sydneysider absolutely fired up.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:38am
chrisc101 said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
I think they are going to pay bigtime for hedging their bets and playing matches in Canberra. Isn’t their name GWS? So why the hell do they have Canberra on the back of their jersey?
Secondly, and I know this goes on alot, but I have never seen a worse case of crowd fudging at the GWS game on Saturday. 7K which looked alot closer to 3K.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:40am
Australian Rules said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
The AFL doesn’t fudge crowd figures…it doesn’t have to.
The crowd looked so small on tv because it was pouring with rain and everyone was under cover.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:44am
Redb said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:44am | Report comment
Not that is needs explaining, but seeing as posters seem to think this.
GWS members sit up in the Grand stand on the TV camera side, this is out of view.
The AFL do not need to fudge crowd numbers.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:16am
andyincanberra said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:16am | Report comment
RE: the Canberra comment, I hope you’re wrong. Down here the support has been good, and it’s a great atmosphere at Manuka on game day. Canberra has a great Aussie rules tradition, and produced a few half decent players, Hird, Jesaulenko, Hamill. My thoughts are that GWS are trying to paint themselves as a regional team based out of WS, hence partnerships with Canberra and the Riverina. That’s probably why they’ve chosen to be referred to by their acronym rather than say West Sydney. Whether this approach will dilute support in their domiciled location remains to be seen.
Also, I think that people need to remember that they’ve only played half a season and it was accepted that they wouldn’t win many games. But, once the team does start winning, those supporters, which have been there from the start as the team has grown organically, should be rusted on, and provide a great position to grow the team and the brand.
Hats off to Rodney, you’ve taken what could be a tired and tedious topic and made a decent article that hopefully won’t degenerate into a codewar.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:26am
shirtfront said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Hawthorn has Tasmania on their ‘guernsey’. Surprised the Hawks fans haven’t ripped down the stands at Waverly. Oh thats right someone else did that.
June 19th 2012 @ 1:02pm
Tupiza said | June 19th 2012 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
That’s because the Tasmanian Gov is the main jumper sponsor.
June 19th 2012 @ 11:20am
Ads said | June 19th 2012 @ 11:20am | Report comment
“So why the hell do they have Canberra on the back of their jersey? ” – I’ve posted a response to a similar question before…This is an AFL tradition of giving a “shout out” to a region or former club that a team represents. i.e. Sydney Swans have “S.M.F.C.” on the back of their jerseys to acknowledge their heritage – South Melbourne Football Club. Similarly, Brisbane Lions had “F.F.C” on the back of theirs – Fitzroy Football Club. So these were a tip of the hat to their former pre-location and pre-merged identities. So for the GWS Giants, they have a few thousand of members based in Canberra, play 3 games in Canberra for the next 10 years, so to acknowldge that they have the words Canberra on their back, to say yes the Giant “G” on the front is for GWS and Giants but hey we also play for Canberra. In my opinion they should have named the team NSW Giants represented all of NSW apart from Sydney….or stuck with Western Sydney and represented West Sydney only.
June 19th 2012 @ 2:29pm
Epiquin said | June 19th 2012 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
In the NRL, Wests Tigers have a little magpie on their jersey as a shout out to the western suburbs magpies, the club that got the rough end of the pineapple in the Balmain Tigers/ Wests Magpies merger.
June 19th 2012 @ 2:36pm
Ads said | June 19th 2012 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
Totally agree with that – you can’t even see it most of the time! They’re not even called Western Suburbs. ‘Wests’ is a bastardisation and its actually hard to pronounce Wests Tigers. Balmain Magpies sounds much better
Off topic but I’d love them to de-couple or de-merge whatever the term is or how about the Western Magpies (playing out of Perth)? It’ll never happen but an old maggie supporter can dream
June 19th 2012 @ 11:37am
Rossi said | June 19th 2012 @ 11:37am | Report comment
You said “I have never seen a worse case of crowd fudging at the GWS game on Saturday’.
Really, you can’t?
How about this headline from the DT-
“SOUTH Sydney have conceded they include stadium workers, media, referees – and possibly players – when counting home crowds.”
the NRL have fudged crowds for years.
June 19th 2012 @ 12:41pm
chrisc101 said | June 19th 2012 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
I have never seen a case where they have atleast doubled the number in attendance.
June 19th 2012 @ 2:03pm
Jaceman said | June 19th 2012 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
Ask Woodward (NRL fan) who said there were 200 (hyperbole perhaps) at the Easts/Broncos game when the crowd was posted at 9738. Unless you were at the ground, Chrisoc you cannot comment..
And who can forget Super League where both sides doubled the numbers…..
June 19th 2012 @ 4:16pm
JamesP said | June 19th 2012 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
Any RL person – I am assuming you are one Chris101? – who accuses the AFL (of all codes!) in fudging crowd numbers comes across as incredibly insecure and desperate.
June 19th 2012 @ 5:38pm
Will Travel said | June 19th 2012 @ 5:38pm | Report comment
And any AFL person who reckons that the AFL doesn’t in some way comes across as incredibly naive and gulliable.
June 19th 2012 @ 6:05pm
JamesP said | June 19th 2012 @ 6:05pm | Report comment
Confirmation that the NRL fudges its crowd figures”
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/storm-ceo-claims-crowd-figures-inflated-20110531-1feo9.html
What sources do you have “Will Travel”, apart from counting them on your TV screen?
June 20th 2012 @ 11:19am
sean maguire said | June 20th 2012 @ 11:19am | Report comment
If you actually read that article James it says the AFL fudges figures as well. So I guess that means we have confirmation that GWS and the Suns are fudging their crowd numbers.
June 20th 2012 @ 11:46am
JamesP said | June 20th 2012 @ 11:46am | Report comment
No it doesn’t. AFL is not mentioned. We have a loose claim from the Storm boss that other sporting clubs do the same – obviously he is trying to make the practice look common place.
I’ve read your posts down below. The AFL occasionally gives away free tickets to teams in developing markets – nothing wrong with trying to grow your brand. Better than the NRL which gives free tickets to teams IN their heartlands (e.g. Titans, and the SoO Blues the last couple of years).
Like I said: Desperate
June 20th 2012 @ 11:55am
Jaceman said | June 20th 2012 @ 11:55am | Report comment
Gaucis other interpretataion of the crowd figures
http://afr.com/p/lifestyle/sport/tries_and_blue_skies_for_storm_dLLtyXtkuPx6ttro3YPZ4N
June 20th 2012 @ 12:07pm
JamesP said | June 20th 2012 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
Jaceman: the article says:
“Last Friday night’s top-of-the-table clash against the Brisbane Broncos attracted a near-capacity crowd at the Storm’s home ground of AAMI Park and all the corporate hospitality suites were sold out – a first in the stadium’s three-year history”
Don’t know about the corporate suits, but that crowd (the game was on the Friday after Melbourne hosted SoO Game 1) was about 13,000 which is less than half capacity of AAMI.
A “near capacity” crowd would be double that.
http://www.nrl.com/TelstraPremiership/MatchCentre/tabid/10999/Default.aspx#matchid=2393&tab=Report
June 20th 2012 @ 12:53pm
sean maguire said | June 20th 2012 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
It does mention that it isn’t isolated to league i.e. AFL do it as well.
”I believe it’s not isolated to Melbourne Storm or in fact the NRL,” Gauci said.
”It was brought to my attention that most sporting clubs do that in terms of adjusting their numbers.
June 20th 2012 @ 1:55pm
Jaceman said | June 20th 2012 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
James P
I was being iroic as my other post pointing out the errors in this article was deleted…
June 20th 2012 @ 5:10pm
JamesP said | June 20th 2012 @ 5:10pm | Report comment
Jaceman: No dramas
Sean: when you find solid evidence of an AFL official saying his numbers are dodgy, please post it.
Until then, you can go on believing Ron – who has been clearly caught out and is trying to save face via deflecting the blame i.e. we do it so everyone else does it (Which has been addressed adequately by poster “Australian Rules” via a comment further below).
June 20th 2012 @ 5:44pm
Punter said | June 20th 2012 @ 5:44pm | Report comment
I find it funny when people argue about;
AFL attendances, it is one of the best in the world.
ARF only a niche sport in Sydney, believing the Sydney media, no Sydney is a Rugby League town & ARF is a niche sport in Sydney.
Football is only played in Europe & 3rd world countries. It is the WORLD game played & followed by all countries in the world.
June 20th 2012 @ 6:19pm
Kasey said | June 20th 2012 @ 6:19pm | Report comment
Punter I personally find it funny to read when AFL fans use the “well we get bigger crowds than your lot so our sport ‘must’ be a better one” argument. Whilst ARF is a good sport that I enjoy watching, that argument or implication fails to take into account the special relationship between Melbourne and the AFL and the specific sporting culture of that city IMO. We see when the game is transplanted to other locations such as GC and WS that relationship in clearer light.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:38am
Col Quinn said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
You have made a very salient point. The culture between Melbourne and Sydney is very different. Although not every Sydney sider is a remote junkie. The problems for elite sport in Sydney are many. When NRL games are scheduled, there are rounds of junior and park RL being played. You would think that these games would be played at different times to allow these players and supporters to go to NRL games. The same applies to football and RU. Public transport is a big issue in Sydney. The cost to go games is ridiculous. I took my grandsons, all under 12, to a South’s Game recently. I came away less $200 after tickets and some food and drinks. $200 for a senior and 4 boy, ridiculous, it is no wonder the NRL can’t get people to some of it venues. The remote and a lounge chair are a little less expensive. There is naturally more room at most Melbourne grounds, they are bigger to accommodate the larger AU games. The smaller suburban RL grounds were never intended to seat more than 15,000, a very short sited plan by previous RL management. The GWS’s crowd problems are many fold and having watch some of the last game on the box, in the lounge chair with the remote, there were not 7,000 at that game, if there were 5,000 they were lucky. The AFL has misread the whole west of Sydney scene. Move the Giants to Castle Hill and watch the crowd grow. To be honest Sydney has been spoilt by major sporting events over the past 15 years, Olympics, SOO, RUWC, RU and RL test matches, etc. Watching club sport has become ordinary, Sydney sider now want more. Well, I’m off to do a bit a sailing on the Harbour now and then I might enjoy a little culture at the Opera House, followed possibly by a bit entertainment at the club. So much to do, so many choices!
June 19th 2012 @ 9:04am
Brewski said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Exactly, we here in Perth, might do a bit of sailing, go to the Picasso exhibition in the city, or off to Freo to sample some beers, or to the Swan Valley for wine, but you can guarantee that we will pack out Subi for our AFL teams.
WS is league heartland, and hasn’t the Sydney media let the AFL know it, but as MDS 1970 says, the AFL and GWS are in it for the long haul, …… it is this fact that many RL fans just do not get, a couple of bad crowds, or indeed a couple of bad seasons are not going to disuade GWS or the AFL.
As Norm says Sydney is the one city in Australia, that has a pathetic sporting culture.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:38am
Captain Obvious said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
They might be used to rugby league’s culture of half-hearted expansion – axe the teams if things aren’t looking wonderful after a few seasons, then try again in a few decades.
It’s happened with the Gold Coast, Brisbane (2nd team), Perth, Adelaide and the Central Coast. The Melbourne Storm managed to secure their future in the post-Super League cull by winning the 1999 premiership.
By comparison, the AFL is very patient and accommodating with their expansion teams. Many rugby league fans forget this.
June 19th 2012 @ 11:07pm
Todd Johnson said | June 19th 2012 @ 11:07pm | Report comment
Not sure if this is a stitch up or not but there are some pretty big misrepresentations here C.O
- Gold Coast RL was open for 10 years and struggled for much of it. In the end it was sacrificed for the Super League peace deal to cut the teams down. Not really a cut and run there
- South Qld Crushers were also cut as part of the Super league peace deal. The Broncos (major driver of SL and owned by News LTD) demanded a ‘non compete’ clause in the Brisbane market for a period of time post SL. This meant the Crushers had to go for the good of the game
- Perth could’ve lasted but aligned with Super League and then became irrelevant. They were cut as part of the peace.
- Adelaide and the Hunter Mariners were Super leage inventions and never played outside of that comp. They don’t count and were rightly dumped in the peace.
- Storm have been very successful but have only survived because of the private ownership of News Ltd. Without this they may well have fallen over. Winning the GF in year 2 probably had less to do with their survival than News although it certainly doesn’t hurt that they are so good. Melbourne never played in Super League and were kept in 1998 for strategic purposes.
Common dominator with most of RL expansion was based around SL years and were killed off in the peace deal. AFL hasn’t dealt with this scenario and would be interesting to see how it would look if they did.
June 20th 2012 @ 9:27am
Minister for Information for the Democratic People's Republic of Football said | June 20th 2012 @ 9:27am | Report comment
I still have to laugh when I hear that name – Sth. Qld. Crushers. What’s a crusher look like anyway? With a name like that you’re doomed for extinction from birth.
Where else but Queensland?
June 20th 2012 @ 9:42am
Ads said | June 20th 2012 @ 9:42am | Report comment
No worse than other names that are / have been around in Aussie sport – “Heat”, “Storm”, “Fury”, “Glory”, “Football Kingz”. I guess the Crusher was like the Adelaide Ram, a good double entendre, although I’ve never seen a Ram in Adelaide….”Steelers” was a good one, from the “Steel City” but also a pun for stealing the ball from you….
June 20th 2012 @ 11:50am
Jaceman said | June 20th 2012 @ 11:50am | Report comment
Ball steals werent allowed when the Steelers were born and Adelaide used to be a wool trading port…
June 20th 2012 @ 7:14pm
Damo said | June 20th 2012 @ 7:14pm | Report comment
The Crushers name was something to do with the sugar canes farms and the machine that made the cane into sugar was called a Crusher, their logo was a steam train that took the sugar out of the area. Not sure what it had to do with Brisbane, however it is iconic for Queensland… However I could be completely wrong
June 20th 2012 @ 11:03am
Strummer Jones said | June 20th 2012 @ 11:03am | Report comment
Brewski, do you think Perth fans are a bit feral? This is a serious question.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:07am
Redb said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:07am | Report comment
Melbourne has a few sporting events here and there.
Plenty of sailing available on Port Phillip Bay.
The odd theatre and restuarant in Melbs as well.
Suggest those are all rationalist type comments trying to justify something.
June 19th 2012 @ 2:11pm
Jaceman said | June 19th 2012 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
I agree that Sydneys traffic problems are terible and their suburban grounds are horrible, but for a comparison with melbourne’centrally based MCG/, Etihad if Parramtta played Penrith at the SFS in a blockbuster, I doubt you would get 30K.
to Col, where exactly would the GWS play at castle Hill, in the long term they will move north west when the pop’n explodes (500K in N-W Sydney in next 20 years) but in the meantime you still have to drive to the Harbour or the city to undertake all those activities you apparently enjoy as an adjunct to going to the footy. BTW Melbourne admission prices/food prices are just as steep…
June 19th 2012 @ 8:38am
Australian Rules said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
Based on the content of the article, the headline should be: Why Are Sydney’s Sports Crowds So Underwhelming?
but I think that’s been canvassed before…
June 19th 2012 @ 9:53am
Rodney Penny said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Well I simply discussed why GWS crowds were underwhelming.
Culture, travel and examples of other Sydney teams and codes formed an analysis behind my thinking.
As an observer from Adelaide, I certainly don’t profess to know everything about the sporting landscape of a city some 1,400km’s away. I’m just yearning for a balanced opinion about a certain topic, that’s all.
June 19th 2012 @ 11:38am
Australian Rules said | June 19th 2012 @ 11:38am | Report comment
No, I get it Rodney, and I think your article’s a good one. The headline just reads as another Roar invitation to kick the Giants…and there’s been plenty of those in recent weeks.
As you say, poor Sydney sporting crowds are due primarily to culture and infrastructure, nothing more.
June 19th 2012 @ 1:02pm
Ben said | June 19th 2012 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
Rodney, it’s halfway through the first year. I really wonder what people expected of GWS? Anybody who expected solid 20000+ crowds week in week out for a club with a whole new identity and no history are kidding themselves. I guess for some it’s underwhelming but for the AFL and the Aussie Rules supporters in Sydney (who usually ignore the cross-code naysayers) it’s a good start, not brilliant, but good. Ideally if they can end the season averaging 10000, then that’d be a pass. People also forget half the reason for the GWS concept was that illusive 9th game on TV and the extra media revenue associated with it. It probably added $50-100mil on top the broadcast agreement alone.
You also need to understand Sydney too. It’s a geographically challenged city when it comes to getting around. The harbour and poor public transport that is CBD centric (Homebush being 15km from the city) makes it hard to get around. Not many like paying $20 for parking at the game and some also like to have a beverage or two.