What have the North learnt after another week in the South?
By Brett McKay, 19 Jun 2012 Brett McKay is a Roar Expert
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- All Blacks, Berrick Barnes, Dan Carter, Mike Harris, Rugby Union, Wales rugby, wallabies
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All Blacks player Aaron Smith gets past the tackle of Brian O'Driscoll. AFP PHOTO / Michael Bradley
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I’m still too raw in this whole rugby writing game to have gained a northern hemisphere arch-rival for myself just yet, and I’m still not completely sure about just how many UK scribes Spiro refers to when he speaks of “the usual suspects”.
So suffice to say, this isn’t going to be an argumentative “South is better than the North” piece.
There’s good reason for these articles to be written currently, sure, but I’ll leave that for those more inclined to enjoy such muckraking and bear poking.
I was, however, very interested to see how or if the three northern hemisphere sides could come back from the three fairly convincing wins endured at the hand of the old Tri-Nations the weekend before last. It made for an interesting way of watching three pretty good Tests over the course of Saturday and early Sunday morning.
In the early stages in Johannesburg, it really appeared as though England had learnt nothing, and may have even forgotten a few things from the week before in Durban.
Chris Ashton was found horribly out of position when Brian Habana broke out in the first few minutes, and then bizarrely, England left themselves with no-one on the short side of a 5m scrum, only to see Willem Alberts stroll over for the simplest try he’ll ever score as the ball went straight through the scrum tunnel.
Before the game was a quarter through, England found themselves three tries down, with a feeling that the gates might be about to open more than they already were.
England did play well to get back as close as they did though. Recalled flyhalf Toby Flood created more opportunities in midfield, and Ben Foden looked more dangerous at fullback than he did wasted on the wing with a book in the First Test.
But as it was in Durban, South Africa were never really in any great danger in this match. The Springbok defence answered most questions posed of them, often with interest, and the scoreboard probably doesn’t reflect how dominant the ‘Boks were. The stats do, though, with South Africa enjoying 60%-plus territory and the majority of possession, too.
Wales, on the other hand, can quite possibly consider themselves unlucky. In a game where the lead changed nine times, and eight times in the second half alone, it truly looked as though a losing streak that stretched back to the Sydney Cricket Ground in 1969 was about to come to an end.
And perhaps, if Rhys Priestland didn’t kick downfield in the 79th minute when the pick-and-drive was all that was required, we’d heading to the Football Stadium this coming Saturday afternoon for a decider. Instead, the engraving has already been done.
It had all gone so well for Wales, too. After being shell-shocked at how quickly the Wallabies started in Brisbane, Wales were on the front foot from the outset, winning the initial contest from the kick-off, and before many a patron had taken their seat, George North caught some Wallaby forwards napping to barge over from close range.
As it was last week against the Brumbies, the Welsh defensive line was as resolute as it was impenetrable, and their midfielders were particularly focussed on getting in the faces of their Australian opponents whenever the Wallabies looked to go wide.
Twice in the first half, the Wallabies got to 14 phases, yet nothing came of the attack either time. On both occasions, Will Genia had to delay ruck clearances so that forward runners could be reset, and the method of attack reviewed and recalibrated. Ashley Beck’s misread as Berrick Barnes got outside of Sam Warburton in the lead-up to Rob Horne’s try was one of few Welsh errors in a cracking first forty.
The second half became one of those constant ebb-and-flow battles that we love in Test rugby. Just as one side got in front, they found themselves under pressure, and the errors started mounting on both sides.
The Welsh pushed their scrum dominance further once Ben Alexander came on for Benn Robinson, and the last fifteen minutes saw both sides winning penalties from the set piece. Barnes missed a penalty shot at goal that he would normally expect to slot; such was the tiring effect of cramp and sudden fatherhood.
Barnes made way for Mike Harris, and like Kurtley Beale in Bloemfontein in 2010, Harris’ Wallaby career will forever be remembered for a clutch kick in its infancy. The series may be done, but Wales still yearn for that scalp in Australia. And that alone should ensure a thrilling final Test in Sydney.
The story of the weekend must surely be Ireland pushing the All Blacks in Christchurch.
From the outset, it was noticeable how much more involved and committed the Irish forwards were in defence. That’s not to say that they weren’t involved and committed in the First Test in Auckland, just that the lessons handed to them by their opponents had been heeded well and truly in the week since.
Throughout the first half, throughout most of the game actually, Ireland committed numbers well to the breakdown, which helped stifle New Zealand’s counter-ruck that was so successful the week before. Ireland also took the time they needed to reset their forward pods for the pick-and-drive too, which allowed them to maintain and build the phases a lot better than they did at Eden Park.
All this contributed enormously to them making metres, and creating opportunities.
Jonathan Sexton and Conor Murray played the Irish backs a lot wider, and a lot flatter, and this in itself asked more questions of the All Blacks than they managed previously. There is still the issue of being able to finish those questions, but the All Blacks’ defence was put under pressure all game.
Most importantly, Ireland didn’t panic when New Zealand hit back, as they inevitably do. Instead, they maintained their composure, took points when offered, and scrapped like they may never have scrapped in 107 years of history between the two sides. If Ireland-New Zealand history was ever to be made, its best chance was Saturday night.
For mine, there were two key replacements in the second half. Ronan O’Gara coming on for Gordon D’Arcy pushed Sexton to 12, and this gave Ireland even more width in attack, and with more option runners in midfield. Fullback Rob Kearney featured prominently on the inside run as a result.
The second was Ben Franks coming on for brother Owen. As soon as this change was made, Ireland gained scrum ascendency, and with that came a real momentum shift.
When metaphorical push came to literal Irish shove, Ben Franks was suddenly doing his very best impersonation of Ben Alexander. I had always assumed that whenever the Crusaders scrum went down under pressure it was Wyatt Crockett doing the folding, but perhaps I need to pay closer attention to the brothers.
This momentum shift started doing funny things to the All Blacks’ composure too. Richie McCaw made two or three handling errors in the second half alone; Israel Dagg undid his excellent chase by barrelling through Kearney shoulder first, after the Irish no.15 had kicked.
Ali Williams’ first impact on the match was to give away a stupid penalty at the back of the ruck, and to then give away another ten metres by reacting when one of the Irish props thanked him for his generosity.
You could almost see them unravelling.
Ultimately, Daniel Carter would kick the field goal to steal the win in dying minutes, and once again, you couldn’t miss the heartbreak in Brian O’Driscoll’s post-match interview.
That said, it could still have been worse for ‘BOD’. He could’ve had the same ridiculously inane questions posed to him that Sam Warburton suffered.
“Will it be possible to get the guys up for the last Test after tonight?”
Please, spare me.
Brett McKay is a former non-tackling scrumhalf and not-quite-1st Grade middle order stalwart. A rugby and cricket expert for The Roar since July 2009 (having joined in Sept 2008), Brett has written for Inside Rugby and Cricket Australia, and is also PLAY Canberra's rugby correspondent. He tweets from @BMcSport
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June 19th 2012 @ 5:22am
mania said | June 19th 2012 @ 5:22am | Report comment
credit to the irish. they took it to the AB’s and taught them a valuable lesson.
the south has been taught a lesson as well. dont underestimate NH rugby. just because its different doesnt mean its inferior. get sick of people harping on about how SH style is better. it isnt its just different. the better team is the one that works as a team better regardless of whether they spin it wide or rumble it up the middle
June 19th 2012 @ 6:32am
nickoldschool said | June 19th 2012 @ 6:32am | Report comment
well said mania.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:09am
Nick said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:09am | Report comment
Results suggest otherwise. Seriously how can you say the SH don’t do it better? Any other profession where this level of dominance of results was demonstrated you’d be laughed out the room for suggesting that.
June 19th 2012 @ 12:21pm
sheek said | June 19th 2012 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
Mania,
While you have attempted to be the voice of reason, I do agree with Nick – with all due respect, SH does it better.
Wales, Ireland & England have thrown the absolute best they can offer in one of the two tests each against Australia, New Zealand & South Africa, & the scoreboard still reads 6-0.
And let’s not forget Argentina beat France as well. Scotland’s win over Australia was an aberration. The Scots did nothing special to win in a game in which the Wallabies blew away any chance of victory through their ineptitude.
While the NH has closed the gap, they seem unable to close out the close games, where the SH teams manage to find a way to wriggle out. In the tight games, it is often a superior adherence to basic skills that gets you over the finish line.
This is supposed to be the most talented team that Ireland have ever sent south of the equator. It’s certainly supremely experienced. Yet they still find themselves two tests down, & the series lost.
It’s highly contentious if this Welsh team is better than either 1969 or 78, but again, despite its quality & experience, it’s now down two tests to Australia (hardly a vintage Wallabies) & the series lost.
And really, with South Africa rebuilding, England might have expected to square the ledger at this point. But they continue to be as dysfunctional as ever.
Without being disrespectful to the NH, they still have some way to go before they achieve parity.
June 19th 2012 @ 1:35pm
Snobby Deans said | June 19th 2012 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
Sheek, I agree when you say “Wales, Ireland & England have thrown the absolute best they can offer in one of the two tests each against Australia, New Zealand & South Africa, & the scoreboard still reads 6-0″
However, to then say “Scotland’s win over Australia was an aberration. The Scots did nothing special to win in a game in which the Wallabies blew away any chance of victory through their ineptitude” is wrong.
Either we accept that the NH teams couldn’t close out the game against the opposition (irrespective of weather, tactics, personnel changes, etc), or we don’t. Otherwise you could say, yeah it was 6-0, but Wales and Ireland were unlucky last week due to X, Y or Z, so let’s ignore those wins by the Wallabies and All Blacks.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:39pm
Pot Hale said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:39pm | Report comment
“This is supposed to be the most talented team that Ireland have ever sent south of the equator.”
Says who? They were missing Ross for the first test, and they’re missing O’Connell, Bowe, Fitzgerald, and Ferris from the tour altogether.
Supremely experienced? I think you’re allowing a few senior players such as O’Driscoll and Darcy to skew things. Tuohy,(4) Fitzpatrick (1), McLaughlin(4) Henry (1), Loughney (1), Zebo, (1) McFadden (13), Cave (3), Murray (11), O’Mahony (6), McCarthy (4) aren’t exactly drowning in starting caps.
Ross, Ryan, Cronin and O’Brien have only 21 caps each and not all of them starting ones.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:00pm
Ben S said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:00pm | Report comment
You’re making that age old error of actually dealing in realism, Pot. Schoolboy error.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:51pm
Pot Hale said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:51pm | Report comment
True, Ben. But I have a jaundiced view of these June tests anyway. However, they have had an unexpected silver lining in that Kidney has had to blood/use quite a few newbies which is no bad thing.
Ryan and Tuohy have stood up well, and put the two Os onto the bench for the future.
McLaughlin is slowly learning. O’Brien is developing his 7 skills even further and more than likely O’Mahony will line out at 8 on Saturday with Heaslip gone.
Only big drawback is at 3 where Ross is still indispensable. Fitzpatrick has a lot to learn at Ulster next season. And the 12/13 spots remain unfilled by clear successors. Cave, Earls, McFadden all still jostling but nothing stand-out. Madigan at 10 and Sexton may still be the answer, but Jonny doesn’t want to move.
June 19th 2012 @ 11:06pm
Ben S said | June 19th 2012 @ 11:06pm | Report comment
I still think Kidney should go, tbh. Some of his selections have been a little iffy IMO.
Ryan on current form is a certainty for the Lions tour, and Tuohy has been strong too. I was very impressed with McLaughlin in the first half of the 2nd Test last week and fitness aside I felt Fitzpatrick stood up well in the first Test.
I’m not sold on these new games, but I think over time we will see some issues in the SH as the accumulative effects of more rugby begin to take their toll on players. Tbh, it’s a lose-lose situation as the players need fewer games. Also, from the perspective of a fan, were a NH side to win there would be various excuses trotted out as we saw post-Scotland, but with close games (which surely is what the objective fan wants?) it’s still a case of the NH best isn’t good enough. Boring stuff. I’d rather just enjoy the games.
June 19th 2012 @ 6:11am
Sherry said | June 19th 2012 @ 6:11am | Report comment
AS always, an informative and pleasant article, Brett. Hard to imagine you ever getting mad at anybody. There are plenty of NH rugby writers to be affronted by (some of them kid Spiro because Spiro doesn’t always check his copy before posting it). Brendan Gallagher and Bill Fotheringham have taken issue with certain refs in the Guardian, Eddie Butler favours Wales in the Observer, Thomas Castaignede, ex-French international, writes for the Guardian as does Bob Kitson. The best of the English writers for me has been Frank Keating who was never above slipping in a classical reference for some of his more erudite readers. Somebody you might or might not know is the Anglo-Dutchman Simon Kuper who has often written about literary figures in sports and sporting literary figures. Simon, like a three-star Michelin restaurant, is worth a special trip. You’ll find some of his stuff on the British Arts Council website.
I seriously doubt you’ll have an arch rival anywhere, just writers you don’t agree with the way Spiro doesn’t agree with Stephen Jones, the Welshman who writes for the Times.
June 19th 2012 @ 6:30am
Pot Hale said | June 19th 2012 @ 6:30am | Report comment
And then there’s all the other NH journos to choose from who write for Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Italy and France as well.
Spoilt for choice, Brett.
June 19th 2012 @ 6:36am
moaman said | June 19th 2012 @ 6:36am | Report comment
Just call LAS a chucker Brett if you are looking to add an arch-rival to your CV!
Nice read…..and good summation of an intriguing weekend of rugby.I didn’t see any of the Arg-Fra or Fiji-Sco games but did catch the RWC Junior semi Wales-NZ which was a cracker.(Still need to watch tape of the other semi).So much rugby,and such good games too. Can’t wait to see how all teams respond next week…with injuries/selections possibly throwing up new permutations.
ps.Thought the Springbok 1st half display was most impressive of all the teams.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:41am
Brett McKay said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
Moa, the problem with that theory is that I met Leftie not too long ago, and he’s too nice a bloke to call a chucker. The late, great Vinay Verma and I used to have some cracking arguments in these forums in the early days, and then we met for a beer one day at the cricket and never disagreed again on anything!
June 19th 2012 @ 9:38am
Brett McKay said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Thanks Sherry, I’ll start launching pot-shots at those guys next week…
You’re right, I probably won’t have rivals, and even writers that I do disagree with is only a case-by-case thing. I just found it interesting last week to see all the “ha, we’re so much better down here” articles from some of the brethren.
June 19th 2012 @ 6:22am
Dwayne said | June 19th 2012 @ 6:22am | Report comment
Well the Welsh are calling Pocock a cheat. No way. let’s see how the Aussies call this. Of course McCaws a cheat. But not Pocock? In New Zealand we call that mastery of his trade, in Australia, it’s cheating until he reaches that same level. Funny that.
June 19th 2012 @ 7:32am
Justin2 said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:32am | Report comment
You are well balanced Dwayne…
June 19th 2012 @ 7:39am
justsaying said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:39am | Report comment
If Pocock’s being accused of cheating then he’s well on his way to becoming a great of the game…
June 19th 2012 @ 7:52am
Justin2 said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:52am | Report comment
Pocock and Brussow are like Steven Bradbury, they stay on their feet
June 19th 2012 @ 3:09pm
Kuruki said | June 19th 2012 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
Pocock is mastering the art of deception like McCaw. Everyone sees his feet on the ground and says yep that’s legal he is on his feet most of the time this is true but not always, If you look at the angle he is on sometimes, it is pretty obvious he cannot physically stand like that without supporting his body at some other point, even without masses of body’s lying on him. His weight is rested on his torso not on his feet, which technically is illegal, but he is a master at deception like McCaw and that is why he is so good. I have no issue with it, but don’t try to convince me i am not correct.
June 19th 2012 @ 5:17pm
Justin2 said | June 19th 2012 @ 5:17pm | Report comment
I wouldnt dare to argue you are incorrect
June 20th 2012 @ 8:10am
wannabprop said | June 20th 2012 @ 8:10am | Report comment
Kuruki. Excuse my ignorance of the intricacies of ruck play, but I don’t understand the statement, ‘His weight is rested on his torso..’. Given most of a person’s weight is deposited in the torso, it stands to reason that the torso is supported by the legs, and ultimately the feet. Can you expand on the statement? Because as it stands, it reads ‘his torso is supported by his torso…’ Am I missing something?
June 19th 2012 @ 7:50am
dan said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:50am | Report comment
errr…. Relevance Dwayne? Lord knows where people get the idea of blind hatred toward the Wallabies from NZ.
June 19th 2012 @ 9:52am
justsaying said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Yes, we should at least provide cogent, well thought out reasons for our hatred!
June 19th 2012 @ 9:43am
Brett McKay said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:43am | Report comment
I have to admit Dwayne, I’m not too sure what your point is..
June 19th 2012 @ 3:44pm
Snobby Deans said | June 19th 2012 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
Dwayne – I understand what you’re saying. Aussie’s call McCaw a cheat because he’s a master, yet they bristle when anyone calls Pocock a cheat (as they did when people call George Smith a cheat).
The reality is, unless a No.7 is being called a cheat, he’s probably not doing his job. Being called a cheat by opposing fans is almost the biggest compliment a No.7 can be paid.
The problem is when you get boofheads like Kearns and Greg Martin calling anyone who doesn’t like something a cheat, and people picking up on that rather than really watching the games. Every No.7 (as well as most players) push the laws – it’s okay when it’s one of your team, but not when it’s the other side.
June 19th 2012 @ 4:41pm
jeznez said | June 19th 2012 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
Agree Snobby, calling the opposition 7 a cheat is a compliment and the common ‘taters should know better.
Found it funny on the weekend the first scrum when Moore came on the Aussies got done for engaging early. Marto and Brendan Cannon started going on about the change in personnel disrupting the timing and the fact that Moore coming on for TPN meant we no longer had an all NSW front row.
The guys completely ignored the fact that the scrum prior to the sub when TPN was still on – the Wallabies gave away a free kick for going early. Two scrums in a row, one bloke is subbed on for the second one, the same offence in both – obviously it was all Moore’s fault!
June 19th 2012 @ 5:19pm
Justin2 said | June 19th 2012 @ 5:19pm | Report comment
That and the fact McCaw spends more time on the opposite side of the ruck to his team mates
You know it makes sense…
June 19th 2012 @ 6:50am
nickoldschool said | June 19th 2012 @ 6:50am | Report comment
Am pretty sure these tours are also very useful to SH nations which aren’t used to these rugged styles of rugby. Tactically, the north offers a good challenge based on a strong defence (wales v Oz, ireland v ab last week). I dont recall having seen the AB dominated like that at scrumtime in a 3N match. Even England didnt throw the towel in the second half and had a go.
June 19th 2012 @ 6:59am
mania said | June 19th 2012 @ 6:59am | Report comment
agree NOS. 3N gets real repetitive playing the same nations over and over again. it gets to the stage where each team knows each other so well that most of the time its a foregone conclusion before kickoff
with the NH touring its a different style that forces the SH teams to adapt on the fly. defence was the key for the irish and they forced the AB’s into handling mistakes meaning AB’s couldnt build momentum. that in turn resulted in AB’s trying too hard as the itrish were frustrating them. good, serves the AB’s right for going wide all the time from the start instead of doing the hard yards up the middle first.
was annoyed last week with the disrespect from the press and some roarers saying the AB’s were going to put 30-40 points on the irish. unfortunately i reckon the AB’s mustve read and believed the press and didnt come to the game fully prepared. a loss this early in the season would’ve been a valuable lesson but the AB’s dodged it. i hope they dont undervalue what they learnt in the weekend just because they scraped thru with a win
June 19th 2012 @ 7:20am
moaman said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:20am | Report comment
After the contrasting turn-around a week brought,mania,I reckon that was as close to a loss as you can get without actually seeing it written in BOD’s diary. Funny how rugby’s lessons always need to be repeated-old rote-style and take a while to sink in.The Baby Blacks started very loose against Wales in that semi;tried to spread it wide in the face of a flat,fast defense and before laying the platform up front.Luckily they adjusted and gradually took control but were scrambling and muddled in the opening exchanges.
I’m not reading too much into the disintergration of the scrum;put that down to the disruptions to the pack and hope (expect) it to be rectified come Saturday.Ben Franks hasn’t had a day like that before,has he?
June 19th 2012 @ 7:31am
mania said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:31am | Report comment
hopefully MM. the downside of winning is though it feels good it doesnt force you to look internally. losing is where u learn your most valuable lessons. this lesson has all the trademarks of a loss so hopefully the lesson is as grave as one.
never have i seen the AB’s scrum demolished consistently like that. couple of the times in the saders when crocket and bFranks have been on have they been pushed around but then they come back next scrum. but never before has the AB’s scrum been done over and over again, repeatedly one after the other. i kept thinking the next one would be when they woke up but the last 20 mins our scrums was just out muscled. i doubt it was solely bFranks fault though and all the 5 should be ashamed of themselves. richie also said the loosies probably werent pushin as much as they were may have been anticipating breaking away.
yeah babyBlacks didnt adapt to the muddy conditions quick enough in that pool game but have redeemed themselves in the semi’s.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:16am
Brett McKay said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:16am | Report comment
Mania, I’d agree with that, too, if I can jump in. England batsman Jonathan Trott only this week spoke of the Australia-England rivalry being diminished by the more regular scheduling of Test and ODI series (Australia play Ireland, and then a 5 game ODI series v England from this coming weekend).
I’d put our Bledisloe rivalry and traditions right up there with the Ashes, and I’m glad we’ve finally seen the sense in winding back the number of game the Wallabies and All Blacks play against each other in a given year. There is still an extra game this year outside the Rugby Championship, to make a three game series, and even that might still be too many. Realistically, I think if you want to hold the Bledisloe, winning two games home and away should always be the goal. Having two Tests at home in any year puts too much advantage in the draw, when the focus should only be the game on the ground. In my humble opinion…
June 19th 2012 @ 10:24am
Rusty said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:24am | Report comment
I would hazard a guess and say Trott as a South African is struggling to identify with that rivalry
June 19th 2012 @ 11:29am
Brett McKay said | June 19th 2012 @ 11:29am | Report comment
that’s a valid point Rusty, but Trott’s reasoning still stands. You can have too much of a good thing..
June 19th 2012 @ 12:31pm
sheek said | June 19th 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
Brett,
As you know I’ve been sprouting this argument for a long time – the de Beers diamond company marketing philosophy is based on the principle of ‘artificial scarcity’.
Tests are special, very special, & therefore, precisely for that reason, should be scarce.
We can argue what is the optimum number of tests per year, but I personally wouldn’t go beyond 9 or 10, absolute tops. Even in a world cup year.
I certainly don’t agree with the current practise of 13-14 tests per year, every year. This is overkill that might produce short-term financial gain, but will eventually lead to tears I reckon.
Imagine if the rugby league State-Of-Origin, under pressure from the broadcasters & sponsors, was increased to a best of 5, or best of 7?
As a novelty, it might work for one season before people lose total interest from overkill. Not to mention, & this is a salient point, expecting the leading players to have to lift so often within one year.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:06am
Nick said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Finally confirmation you are a troll! I have hitherto suspected you but the jury is in! If you think the most “rugged” game the SH gets is from the NH you’re mad, or a troll. Ever heard of the tri nations? The boks are in that, there’s no one up north comes close to rugged if the boks are in the equation.
Toughest and most physically powerfull game around is every single time the all blacks play the boks.
June 20th 2012 @ 8:01am
nickoldschool said | June 20th 2012 @ 8:01am | Report comment
keep your blinkers on
June 19th 2012 @ 10:08am
Brett McKay said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:08am | Report comment
Hi Nick, there’s no question there’s an obvious benefit to the Southern countries in these tours from the North, and I extend that to Argentina, Fiji, Samoa, as well as Japan, Canada, and the US. The more cross-hemisphere touring, the better, I say. Ultimately, to fall into cliché, rugby is the real winner..
June 19th 2012 @ 7:14am
Emric said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:14am | Report comment
Lol we argue about how Ireland v all blacks was to close to call and Wales and Australia go head to head with the game going to the wire while our league loving friends worry about kiwis vein snapped up by nsw and Queensland these close games simply show how close the rivals of rugby truely are
June 19th 2012 @ 7:18am
Intotouch said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:18am | Report comment
Nice analysis. Thanks for this.
There were close matches between NZ and Ireland before, and the one draw (again achieved by NZ in the last minute) but when time passes these are forgotten and the result is all most of us dwell on.
I am such a cynic now after watching NZ beat Ireland my whole life that when the last few minutes came all I could still think was how are they going to beat us this time? I feel ashamed of this now. I should have more faith in them and the coach and not in a horrible record. Never again. I am now going to be the most positive Irish fan there is. Really, I swear.
June 19th 2012 @ 7:27am
justsaying said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:27am | Report comment
Pretty sure the draw came from a missed Irish conversion at the death?
June 19th 2012 @ 7:53am
moaman said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:53am | Report comment
I think NZ scored a try in the (left-hand) corner in the dying minutes to tie that game up at 10-all.1973 seems a long time ago now.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:01am
justsaying said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:01am | Report comment
Right you are. My mistake…
June 19th 2012 @ 7:32am
mania said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:32am | Report comment
had sexton converted the dagg penalty it would’ve been game over. there was no way the AB’s were gonna cross that irish defensive line
June 19th 2012 @ 10:31am
Brett McKay said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:31am | Report comment
Cheers Into, and thanks for your comments.
Ireland have been a funny side in many respects, in that they always seem to save special performances for New Zealand and Australia. Even this year, they’ve had an underwhelming Six Nations by their own standards, yet here they are again, pushing it to the wire in the Antipodes. You shouldn’t be cynical (though I can understand why you would be), Ireland will beat New Zealand before too long..
June 19th 2012 @ 3:19pm
Kuruki said | June 19th 2012 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
I don’t think it’s just the irish. Have France ever played anyone else like they play the AB’s?
June 19th 2012 @ 3:33pm
nickoldschool said | June 19th 2012 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
The ABs have been the benchmark in world rugby for years and playing them has always been a very special thing for the french, much more so than the wallabies. Very often they were (and still are sometimes) in awe of the abs, before and during the game. I think the 1999 and 2007 wins gave them this extra confidence. For many nations, including France, playing the ABs, especially for a rwc final, is the ultimate goal, winning comes after. I think its changing little by little. Dunno if ABs and their supporters realise the aura they have in France and probably other far away countries. Always felt it was almost too much.
June 19th 2012 @ 7:49am
Grimmace said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:49am | Report comment
Good articel Brett.
Who would have though- Ali Williams giving away a stupid penalty? Great point on the Franks’ or the Franksi, I too though Crockett was the folding one in the Crusaders scrum. I’ve been thinking for a while that Benny A is becoming bit of a liability at scrum time.
Argies beat the French too. Once these tours once again become common place and the NH teams continue to send full strenght (or close to it) sides, I have the feeling that the results won’t be so one sided.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:14am
Nick said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:14am | Report comment
The franks’ are interesting. Owen is possibly the best prop in the world, so good his brother (who is three shades of average) gets picked on the strength of him.
That being said that new blues prop Ben somebody probably would have made his debut but for injury. I suspect ben franks’ days were numbered before this series began but luck was on his side
June 19th 2012 @ 3:23pm
Kuruki said | June 19th 2012 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
Ben Franks plays both sides of the scrum, that is why he is there. And to be honest i think he is getting a raw deal, they dominated the first test while he was on the paddock. Richie summed it up himself, it was the loose forwards who were responsible for our scrum going backward not the tight 5. Ben Franks is a very good prop imo in all facets of play.
June 19th 2012 @ 10:47am
Brett McKay said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Grimmace, I couldn’t believe my eyes the way Ben Franks was going down when he came on. It was like he was practicing the old air raid drill in the middle of a scrum!
Nick, are you thinking of Ben Tameifuna, from the Cheifs (and Hawke’s Bay)?
June 19th 2012 @ 12:37pm
Sam Taulelei said | June 19th 2012 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Think he’s referring to Charles Faumuina who was named in the wider training squad and then had to pull out after a calf injury, opening the door for Ben Tameifuna.
June 19th 2012 @ 7:49am
Justin2 said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:49am | Report comment
Slight thread hijack but this week will show what Deans has learned. Cuna is available for selection. Will he be picked?
June 19th 2012 @ 10:51am
Brett McKay said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:51am | Report comment
nice abbreviation on Cooper Vuna, J2! With Beale fit again and the ARU not investigating VictoryGate until after the Police are done, I suspect Vuna will make way, with Ashley-Cooper heading back to the wing. Personally, I’d like to see Morahan or Shipperly given a run, and Ashley-Cooper moving to 13 for Horne..
June 19th 2012 @ 11:43am
Justin2 said | June 19th 2012 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Pure mistake Brett with “c” and “v” close together. A reflection of my typing abilities, or lack there of
June 19th 2012 @ 12:27pm
Brett McKay said | June 19th 2012 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
nah, go with it, I reckon it works. High margin for obsenity error, admittedly..
June 19th 2012 @ 12:38pm
Justin2 said | June 19th 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
Ive “called” him Vuns and Buns at other times too!
June 19th 2012 @ 7:52am
kingplaymaker said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:52am | Report comment
In that case I’ll replace this with a remark on the article. That being that the northern hemisphere scribes refers to one person alone, Stephen Jones, who is something of a trumpeter for certain positions.
June 19th 2012 @ 7:54am
Justin2 said | June 19th 2012 @ 7:54am | Report comment
No thanks kpm I don’t have the time!
June 19th 2012 @ 10:57am
katzilla said | June 19th 2012 @ 10:57am | Report comment
Yeah I’ve found him incredibly annoying, he gets a bee in his bonnet about a certain player or coach and just continues to harp on about them being replaced by other people who are unproven at elite levels.
People write in with viable proof otherwise and he just ignores it continues with the concrete opinion of his preferred players or coaches.
I just don’t think he has the insight to realise how annoying his stance is but I guess he gets a lot of reads and really a lot of his replies are from people who enjoy being riled up and replying to his same old tired arguments.
June 19th 2012 @ 11:30am
Brett McKay said | June 19th 2012 @ 11:30am | Report comment
Katz!!
June 19th 2012 @ 11:36am
katzilla said | June 19th 2012 @ 11:36am | Report comment
I’m just havin a little fun.
I actually don’t mind it at all, and actually have a fair amount of respect for Jones’s Tenacity
June 19th 2012 @ 8:04am
sixo_clock said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:04am | Report comment
First Class writing Brett.
One lesson may be to invite tours mid-season, take advantage of the tourists match-unfitness. However I doubt very much the Heineken or SIx Nations are open to new ideas, the tea ladies who are the mothers-in-law of the accountants will be quite upset. Another victory to the flexibility of the New World.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:06am
Justin2 said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:06am | Report comment
Doesn’t that happen already?
June 19th 2012 @ 9:49am
Ben S said | June 19th 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
‘One lesson may be to invite tours mid-season, take advantage of the tourists match-unfitness. However I doubt very much the Heineken or SIx Nations are open to new ideas, the tea ladies who are the mothers-in-law of the accountants will be quite upset. Another victory to the flexibility of the New World.’
You really should know better… Scotland have actually been very, very open to new ideas over the past two decades, but then why let facts get in the way of a casual and antiquated stereotype?
June 19th 2012 @ 1:16pm
sixo_clock said | June 19th 2012 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Casual, more like causal! I may sound like an antipodean oaf to your delicate sensibilities Ben however the historical inflexibilty of the home counties have given us League, an untidy transition to professionalism etc so you will be required to forgive me if I, like most in the New World, no longer look for inspiration or leadership from our erstwhile masters. Why would anyone in the SH know anything about Scotland or Shropshire or County Cork unless it were in their personal interest.
Antiquated stereotypes is what we get, what we expect, is what your precious island delivers. Foremost of all those is the patronising ‘we were there first’ argument which also bedevils the Middle East re maths, agriculture etc. Hard-nosed it may be but your day has passed as did the Industrial Revolution (stage II, III etc). Unless you reinvent yourselves and absorb the lessons of my world all you will have is tradition and history and they don’t pay the bills.
June 19th 2012 @ 8:52pm
Ben S said | June 19th 2012 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
Just wow. Did you proof read?
June 19th 2012 @ 11:09pm
Pot Hale said | June 19th 2012 @ 11:09pm | Report comment
Six, you start from the assumption that the Home Unions work in tandem on various key decisions or do so in league with the French as part of the stereotypical NH dunderheads.
If you examine more closely this supposed concert of rejection, you’ll find that they are often competing with one another. The Original IRB was founded by Scotland, Ireland and Wales. England were excluded for a few years.
The creation and formation of the original British isles team was also bedevilled with competing interests and who participated. When they were dubbed the British Lions in 1950s, the various unions stil quarrelled about the composition of the squad. The change to make it the British and Irish Lions in recent years caused further strife.
The introduction of the supposed ELVs was supported and trialled by Scotland and France. Some of them were rightly rejected by England, Wales and Ireland.
Rugby League was never really played throughout Ireland so I doubt the Ireland home union was bothered one way or t’other.
The creation of the World Cup was backed by France, and then England. Scotland and Ireland resisted it to the last.
Ireland went against the other Home Uniosn and supported NZ int heir bid to host last years RWC in return for filthy lucre.
You mention the Heineken Cup. You may not be aware that England and France have formally announced that they are withdrawing from the agreement in 2015 unless changes are made to its structure that are ‘fairer’ to their leagues.
In all that, I think a move away from June tours would be a god thing. And the likely changes to the structure, format and timing of the H Cup may the time to do it. I would put the Southern tours directly after the Six Nations so that there is continuity on test matches similar to what the 3N has before heading for November tours. It wouldn’t make much difference to Super Rugby as to when there was a break for test rugby e.g. April. NH leagues and cups could then continue into May and June on firmer pitches and better weather.