Who will make the British and Irish Lions XV?
By The Crowd, 21 Jun 2012 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
142 Have your say
British Lions' Mike Phillips, right, clears the ball as South Africa's Bakkies Botha, left, looks on during their international rugby union match at King's Park, Durban, South Africa, Saturday, June 20, 2009. AP Images
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Two games into the northern hemisphere’s tour of the south, we can start to make an assessment as to who will return next year as part of the British and Irish Lions.
Based on the form of the players this June and including those missing through injury, it is clear who the Lions are likely to be. Here is my list of the 2013 British and Irish Lions.
1. Gethin Jenkins (Captain – Wales): already a Lion, he is not only making another claim for the loose head position, I think he is making a claim for the captaincy. Corbisiero should be on the bench.
2. Rory Best (Ireland): the Irish hooker has cemented top billing as the Lions no. 1 hooker and is another captaincy candidate. Dylan Hartley should be on the bench and he may put pressure on him for a starting spot but that’s about it. This is possibly an area of weakness for the Lions.
3. Adam Jones (Wales): just pipping Dan Cole for the tight head spot by his slightly better scrummaging. Euan Murray is also a strong chance for a bench spot.
4. Richie Grey (Scotland): arguably the premier lock in world rugby, the Scottish giant who has to have his mattresses specially made to fit his 6ft 10 inch frame, has it all. His try against Ireland and performance against the English and French this year were more than what any other lock in the world can offer. Against Australia he was solid in the wet, but in dryer conditions look out!
5. Courtney Lawes (England): the injured Englishman is the epitome of today’s dynamic professional lock. Naturally lean and athletic he has a high work rate both in the gym and on the field so it fits that this amazing talent should be selected above all others except Grey.
6. Dan Lydiate (Wales): bases his game on big defensive displays, which can change the flow of a game, evident by being named the Player of the Six Nations. He just gets the nod ahead of Ferris, Croft and Denton who are all unfortunately missing from the June tests.
7. Ross Rennie (Scotland): a controversial selection ahead of Warburton, Robshaw and O’Brien. However, Rennie outplayed all in the Six Nations on a losing side and was immense against the Wallabies. If he can maintain his form and hide the fact he’s Scottish he should get the nod.
8. Ben Morgan (England): not entirely match fit at the moment but one can’t ignore that his inclusion for England during their Six Nations campaign made a huge difference. His ‘Man of the Match’ display in the last match was irresistible.
9. Danny Care (England): the bad boy of English rugby, he should get the nod ahead of his countryman Youngs due to his quicker service and stellar form in the English premiership. May be a touring risk though if indeed he becomes acquainted with Mr Beale and or Mr Cooper.
10. Jonathon Sexton (Ireland): A reliable and certain choice at fly half, the Heineken Cup hero has been good for Ireland and should be first choice with no other bar possibly Toby Flood pushing him for a place.
11. Tommy Bowe (Ireland): another missing from the Ireland team this June, his try scoring ability is too much to ignore. If fit he will play.
12. Jamie Roberts (Wales): nothing more needs to be said.
13. Mani Tuilagi (England): Who could resist combining Roberts and Tuilagi in the mid-field even at the expense of the ageing yet still highly competitive Brian O’Driscoll or the young superstar Jonathan Davies. McCabe and Horne (or maybe by next year Chris F’Sautia and Will Tupou) will be earning their money trying to stop this powerful two-some.
14. George North (Wales): the powerful young winger is a must for any side, even possibly a world XV. His natural pace and size can be summed up by the fact that his coaches have told him not to spend too much time in the gym because it might spoil his natural somatotype. He must have some Pacific Islander in his blood. Since Shane Williams retired he has not played as well on the Welsh left wing so I’m positive he’ll picked on the right wing where he belongs. If not his team-mate Cuthbert is just as powerful and amazingly even bigger.
15. Ben Foden (England): with Sexton there is no need for Halfpenny and with Kearney not being able to bring his Heineken cup form into the Test arena, the under-rated Englishman gets the nod.
One thing is certain: the Lions are going to be strong. After all they will be the combination of four Test match quality sides.
The Wallabies will not be able to match them physically but that is nothing new. We need to do what we do best and play intelligent rugby, which is what we are famous for.
Roarers, who would you pick for the Lions team next year and how do you think the Wallabies can counter them?
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June 21st 2012 @ 1:17pm
Bones506 said | June 21st 2012 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
Warburton for Captain. He clearly deserves it.
June 21st 2012 @ 6:22pm
the breakdown said | June 21st 2012 @ 6:22pm | Report comment
No he doesn’t. What’s he done again. This years 6 nations he was mediocre when he wasn’t injured and he’s behind the pace these past two matches. Yes he had a good RWC but so did many.
June 21st 2012 @ 1:33pm
Louis said | June 21st 2012 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
Surely the team will be
1. Jenkins
2.Best
3. Jones
4. Grey
5. Lawes
6. Ferris
7. Warburton-you’re kidding yourself if your think Rennie “should” get selected. Warburton would be the second best openside flanker in the world, behind (and a fair bit behind) Pocock
8. Heaslip
9. Phillips-another no brainer, probably one of the top 3 halfbacks in the world
10. Sexton
11. Bowe
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14. North
15. Halfpenny
Team count- Wales 7, Ireland 5, England 2, Scotland 1
Hopefully this will be the Wallabies team next year
1. Robinson
2. Polata-Nau
3. Kepu
4. Pyle (Simmons is overrated)
5. Horwill
6. Hooper (Higginbotham is a seagull and stands on the wing and chip kicks way more often than being involved in rucks)
7. Pocock (c)
8. Palu
9. Genia
10. Lealiifano
11. Ioane
12. O’Connor
13. Ashley-Cooper (maybe McCabe or Horne)
14. Tomane
15. Beale
Team Count- Waratahs 5, Rebels 3, Reds 3, Brumbies 3, Force 1
I for one would love to see the matchups (if these are indeed the teams) of the following
O’Connor vs Roberts
Ashley-Cooper vs Tuilagi
Genia vs Phillips
Warburton vs Pocock
My tip would be that the Wallabies will win it 2-1, winning the first and third tests
Bring on the Lions!!!
June 21st 2012 @ 2:00pm
Dean Vincent said | June 21st 2012 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
I’m Welsh and I don’t see how Phillips is a no-brainer at 9. He’s been awful in this series. On his day he can be brilliant but he’s so slow and ponderous it’s untrue
June 21st 2012 @ 9:41pm
Bakkies said | June 21st 2012 @ 9:41pm | Report comment
If the Lions play a forward oriented game Philips should be the scrumhalf. If it was a back oriented fast game you might as well pick Eoin Reddan or Mike Blair. Blair is going to playing Pro D2 next season so that may rule him of contention.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:49am
Rugby Fan said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:49am | Report comment
Scrum half is an area where next season’s law changes should make a difference.
The referee won’t allow the ball to hang about at the base of a ruck so the number 9 will have to be a lot sharper getting the ball away. If a player can’t do that, he’ll be exposed. It may also change the way scrum halves across the game use the box kick.
One other consequence of the time limit, is that we should see fewer turnovers resulting from strong counter-rucks when the scrum half is looking the other way, trying to organize the next phase.
With these changes, the Lions selections will partly depend on which players have adapted best.
June 22nd 2012 @ 8:44am
Pot Hale said | June 22nd 2012 @ 8:44am | Report comment
Bring back Peter Stringer, I say!!
June 21st 2012 @ 5:35pm
The Werewolf said | June 21st 2012 @ 5:35pm | Report comment
Louis I think Warburton and Phillips are struggling to justify their places in the Welsh side at the moment.
I like the fact you’ve picked a wallabies side for next year as well. One can see that with Hooper at 6 and O’connor at 12 you think we should throw the ball around. Not a bad thought.
Cheers for your comment!
June 21st 2012 @ 3:05pm
Kuruki said | June 21st 2012 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
The Lions are going to be a true test for the Wallabies me thinks. Going to be a great series. Very very strong team looking at the options available now.
June 21st 2012 @ 3:06pm
Johnno said | June 21st 2012 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
So many people here have failed to acknowledge that the back up welsh no 7 is touted in Wales as having more talant than Warburton.
Kinda like a great in george smith then Pocock coming along.
The back up no 7 has really got Warburton worried Justin Tupric, he is amazing like andrew hore the way he gets so low to the ball he is a special talent Justin.
Also Liam Gill dare we say he may even push pock out he has been that good for the reds and has carried Australia under 20′s as captain. Future wallaby captain even next year if Pocock is injured.
I think both liam gill/pocock have to start. They did this with Phil Waugh/George Smith it worked perfect they were both too good to leave out of the starting team.
Liam Gill for me is a certianty to be picked as a starter Pocock or Gill will have to go to 6 or 8 , Liam Gill is that good, such a good pilfer of the ball, he offers far more than Higgenbotham, and is the best no 7 talent wise in OZ i have ever seen Liam Gill and that includes George Smith.
June 21st 2012 @ 5:20pm
The Werewolf said | June 21st 2012 @ 5:20pm | Report comment
Yes good point. Tipuric is the Ospreys no 7 and has been in excellent form helping them to beat Leinster in the final pro 12. a lot of people are saying that he and Ryan Jones should be in the Welsh team as no 7 and 8 instead of Warburton and a fit Faletau. Interesting that the Welsh had only 1 player from their title winning Ospreys in the first test against the aussies. Could you imagine if Deans only picked one red after the reds won the super xv last year.
I think a Pocock- Gill combo is worth contemplating. We are not going to out muscle the Lions so we need to come up with innovative ideas like that, not necessarily that because there are some draw backs playing two pilferers, but possibly.
June 21st 2012 @ 7:21pm
Bakkies said | June 21st 2012 @ 7:21pm | Report comment
Smith and Waugh in the starting side didn’t work. The Wallabies lost a lot of tests in that period and Smith’s form suffered playing at blindside or number 8. The jury is out on whether Pocock would make the grade as a number 8 to accommodate Gill or Hooper. You have to balance the backrow which Eddie Jones didn’t do. David Lyons played a lot of those tests at number 8. There you have no lineout options and a player that can hit rucks and clean out. To play two 7s you need a lineout option and player with mongrel in the back row to compensate. The 7s rely on getting to the ruck first and slow down/turn over ball. Their job isn’t to clean out. The Wallabies lost a lot of tests back then due to poor management of the breakdown. The Wallabies are a team that relies on quick ball and service to the backs.
June 21st 2012 @ 8:02pm
Jutsie said | June 21st 2012 @ 8:02pm | Report comment
I still can’t forgive eddie jones for ignoring the great owen finegan whilst he was in his prime. He should have made the tough call and dropped waugh.
June 21st 2012 @ 8:32pm
The Werewolf said | June 21st 2012 @ 8:32pm | Report comment
For the RWC 03 final? Yes cost us the match. From memory though Finegan wasn’t even in the squad actually because I recall thinking for christ’s sake play Cockbain in the pouring rain against the giant English pack in a world cup final Eddie!
Bakkies you are right it didn’t work with Waugh and Smith in general and I don’t necessarily agree it will work again but we must consider it as a viable suggestion. Particularly as the game has changed even in the past few years. The amount of rucks during 80min is only growing year by year so having two pilferers in tandem has its advantages.
June 21st 2012 @ 8:38pm
Jutsie said | June 21st 2012 @ 8:38pm | Report comment
No just in general during the jones era. He was one of my favourite players and I think we missed seeing him in the green and gold at his peak.
Its been ages since we had a barnstorming breakaway, rocky came close but shouldn’t have gone to ireland.
I don’t think the two opensides is an option, it affected our lineout/scrum back in 2003 and the set piece is even more important now.
June 21st 2012 @ 9:36pm
Bakkies said | June 21st 2012 @ 9:36pm | Report comment
The Irish have made this mistake at times with O’Brien to get him and Ferris in the starting team. Rarely has it really paid off.
June 21st 2012 @ 9:38pm
Johnno said | June 21st 2012 @ 9:38pm | Report comment
Irleand really miss no 7 Dave wallace bakes.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:22am
Bakkies said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:22am | Report comment
I know but Wallace is retired now. They should have picked Jennings against Wales in the Quarter Final. Sure Jennings wasn’t fit and out of form but they needed someone to slow Wales down at the breakdown. They were far to quick for Ireland. The Irish got away with it against Australia as Deans picked McCalman at 7 in place of Pocock.
June 21st 2012 @ 6:17pm
the breakdown said | June 21st 2012 @ 6:17pm | Report comment
Mr WW,
The side you’ve selected is strong and would take some beating but there is no way Rennie will start for the Lions. Other than that i agree with every selection.
I’m sure Rennie will be one of the scots that make the squad though. As you mentioned almost everyone that plays in the 6 nations will. Everyone that plays for England and Wales will be on the plane plus and a combination of Ireland and Scotland give or take.
June 21st 2012 @ 6:23pm
the breakdown said | June 21st 2012 @ 6:23pm | Report comment
And let me add Warburton does not deserve the no 7 for the lions. I’d have O’brien.
June 21st 2012 @ 6:33pm
Wales15 said | June 21st 2012 @ 6:33pm | Report comment
How does Warburton not deserve the 7? Because he has had two quiet games? Well if my memory serves me correct, he has been out for 3/4 months. O’Brien’s good, but is he as good a fetcher or pilfer as you say down here as Warburton? I think not.
June 21st 2012 @ 10:47pm
the breakdown said | June 21st 2012 @ 10:47pm | Report comment
Tipuric is supposed to be the better player in Wales.
June 21st 2012 @ 7:23pm
The Werewolf said | June 21st 2012 @ 7:23pm | Report comment
Cheers for your comment! Rennie is a machine.
June 21st 2012 @ 9:53pm
ScotandProud said | June 21st 2012 @ 9:53pm | Report comment
10 is a problem and I’d be interested to see if Cipriani puts his hand up next season. Priestland and Farrell have disappointed. The best Lions sides for me have players that noone thought would come thru but addinto a team that is more than the sum of the individual parts: Jeremy Davidson in 97, Smith and Wallace in 97, Dawson did very well after Howley’s early injury. 2001 henderson answered the call after so many players got injured davidson and Murray went off tour Balshaw went from amazing 6 nations to nowhere 89 Guscott was a bolter, nobody expected Mike Teague to be the man of the series in the way that he was, Rob Andrew wasn’t on the plane initially.. Guaranteed there will be surprises and unfortunately alot of these names will be out of the equation thru injury if not before the tour then definitely half way through. Unfortunately also Gatland will pick a familiar Welsh player over a possibly inspired selection in some positions. This is an ideal world exercise which is one of the joys of imminent Lions tours. By the way are they really taking 45? In terms of injuries it might make sense but that squad size sounds too big to me.
1. Dan Cole
2. Ross Ford
3. Corbisiero is the better scrummager than Jenkins altho’ this might b more safety of a keyboard than would I bet my life on it Jenkins has to be the favorite for this position. Corbisiero looks like he’s the coming man – will play at least one test.
4. Gray
5. Lawes – mobile physical – adds leaness and mobility where O’Connell unfortunately has never performed for the Lions. I’d take Brad Davies as an outside – he has the heart Lions need. Palmer, Wyn Jones? Meh.. O’Callaghan(too limited a player but he has the guts) Guarantee Gatland will pick one of Charteris or Wyn Jones… I’d take Charteris over Wyn Jones but Lawes and Davies over them
6. Ferris (Grafter) – a monster, mobile, great hands and he’s bigger and uglier than Lydiate which the Lions are gonna need against the wallabies.
7. Rennie (Fetcher) – playing and has played better than Warburton. I’ll hold out on Tipuric as I haven’t seen him play. Rennie has the goods and the steel.
8. Morgan (Carrier) Problem position. Morgan is here for the type of player he is over players like Faletau and Heaslip. In the Irish backrow O’Brien is the carrier but he’s not a no.8. Oh for a player like Harinordoquy or Bonnaire to complete this backrow.
9. Youngs – Phillips just can’t pass to ScrH standard. Youngs fast service and can break. Care just too slow getting the ball away. Always has to look for himself first like Phillips.
10. Sexton in the absence of other compeitors but Sexton is a good player and can kick goals.
11. Cuthbert or Ashton.
12. Roberts.
13. Tuilagi (what a combo!) Davies his standby. Reckon BOD could end up playing in the 3rd test if he too isn’t already injured.
14. North
15. Kearney on form. Foden if not.
My two cents.
June 21st 2012 @ 10:27pm
The Werewolf said | June 21st 2012 @ 10:27pm | Report comment
Cheers for your comments.
Slightly different to mine but wow you agree about Rennie and there I thought I was the only one. IMHO he’s out played every NH no 7 he’s played this year including Dusatoir and arguably Pocock a few tuesday nights ago. His 29 bone crunching tackles against the wallabies IMHO was the deciding factor in that game.
June 21st 2012 @ 10:46pm
the breakdown said | June 21st 2012 @ 10:46pm | Report comment
There is no way Rennie outplayed Pocock 29 tackles or not.
June 23rd 2012 @ 7:35am
Ben S said | June 23rd 2012 @ 7:35am | Report comment
I don’t know. His stats were pretty awesome for that match. Pocock didn’t actually do a great deal.
June 21st 2012 @ 9:55pm
manalien said | June 21st 2012 @ 9:55pm | Report comment
Nothing I like better than a hypothetical lions team, in fact I wrote one on this site after the world cup…
I do have more than a few issues with your choices though.
Ross Rennie??? Over Sean o’Brien (fresh off going toe to toe with the best no 7 of all time McCaw for 80 minutes and winning on points) or Warburton or even Robshaw (a distant 3rd to the other 2)
Foden and Morgan are also outsiders. Foden makes too many errors and has never quite lived up to his form that sprang him to fMe in his final year at sale and his move to Northampton..
Morgan is well behind Faletau and Heaslip for the 8 jersey….a fine carrier but has shown he offers little else in the tests so far this June. When the rest of he 8 are on the back foot he is anonymous. Could be a good shout for bench duty against he wallabies….being able to bring a carrier of his quality on after 60 mins in a test would be a great weapon…still needs to prove he had other skills between now and selection time to get a seat on the plane.
June 21st 2012 @ 9:55pm
manalien said | June 21st 2012 @ 9:55pm | Report comment
Nothing I like better than a hypothetical lions team, in fact I wrote one on this site after the world cup…
I do have more than a few issues with your choices though.
Ross Rennie??? Over Sean o’Brien (fresh off going toe to toe with the best no 7 of all time McCaw for 80 minutes and winning on points) or Warburton or even Robshaw (a distant 3rd to the other 2)
Foden and Morgan are also outsiders. Foden makes too many errors and has never quite lived up to his form that sprang him to fMe in his final year at sale and his move to Northampton..
Morgan is well behind Faletau and Heaslip for the 8 jersey….a fine carrier but has shown he offers little else in the tests so far this June. When the rest of he 8 are on the back foot he is anonymous. Could be a good shout for bench duty against he wallabies….being able to bring a carrier of his quality on after 60 mins in a test would be a great weapon…still needs to prove he had other skills between now and selection time to get a seat on the plane.
June 21st 2012 @ 10:02pm
Johnno said | June 21st 2012 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
-I just can’t leave out BOD.
-Manu tuilagi is physically so strong but BOD if he is still up to it at 34.5 when the lions rolls on is just so good.
-Think Lions series 2009 him and Jamie roberts were the 2 best players in the series.
-Yes BOD only had AD Jacobs marking him but he was so dominant in all he did.
-BOD steps up when it counts, lions, was the best Irish player in the losing Q/F, was outstanding in the HEK cup final 2012 this year.
-Just born to play rugby union is BOD
-So hope Jamie Roberts is fit he is needed , but Manu TUilagi is doing okay at I/C.
-I would still look at big 6’7 matt banaghan as an option to as I/C
June 21st 2012 @ 10:28pm
The Werewolf said | June 21st 2012 @ 10:28pm | Report comment
‘Just born to play rugby’… can’t argue that!
Lost me at Matt Banaghan but love the left field thinking.
June 21st 2012 @ 10:54pm
Johnno said | June 21st 2012 @ 10:54pm | Report comment
Neither can i werewolf. Best centre i ever seen in 20 years watching rugby just shades horn then umaga.
June 21st 2012 @ 10:19pm
Ben S said | June 21st 2012 @ 10:19pm | Report comment
1. Cian Healy, 2. Rory Best, 3. Adam Jones, 4. Richie Gray, 5. Ian Evans, 6. Tom Croft, 7. Sam Warburton {c}, 8. Jamie Heaslip;
9. Ben Youngs, 10. Toby Flood, 11. George North, 12. Jamie Roberts, 13. Manu Tuilagi, 14. Tommy Bowe, 15. Rob Kearney;
16. Matthew Rees, 17. Gethin Jenkins, 18. Bradley Davies, 19. Sean O’Brien, 20. Mike Phillips, 21. Jonny Sexton, 22. Leigh Halfpenny
TBH, I don’t think I could settle on a side… Just want to make changes…
June 21st 2012 @ 10:31pm
Rugby Fan said | June 21st 2012 @ 10:31pm | Report comment
You’ll need 23 in the matchday squad next season, Ben, so throw in another prop.
June 21st 2012 @ 10:47pm
Ben S said | June 21st 2012 @ 10:47pm | Report comment
Oohh… I forgot about that, RF. I only included Jenkins on the basis that he can cover both sides, but so can Corbisierio, and he has proven himself a good impact scrummager. Not sure whether I’d go for a destructive 3 like Murray or Cole, or a more mobile prop like Jenkins.
Hmmm… Corbisiero and Murray to really turn screw.
June 21st 2012 @ 10:36pm
The Werewolf said | June 21st 2012 @ 10:36pm | Report comment
Cheers a good line up.
Nice touch naming the bench. I’ll follow suit with my 15 already named.
16. A Corbiserio 17. D Hartley 18. D Cole 19. D Ryan 20. D Denton 21. B Youngs 22. T Flood 23. L Halfpenny
Don’t forget next year there will be an extra sub to allow an extra prop on the bench. No more uncontested scrum farces!