Choke no more: LeBron James haters need a new angle
Columnist By Ryan O'Connell, 22 Jun 2012 Ryan O'Connell is a Roar Expert
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With LeBron James one win away from an NBA title – a championship he may have even won by the time you read this article – his detractors will need to find something new to criticise him for.
Rest assured, there are plenty of journalists and fans that are now nervously realising that they’ll need to find a new angle to beat James down with, other than the tired, lazy and inaccurate ‘choker’ tag.
James is on the verge of joining Lionel Messi, Roger Federer, Tiger Woods, Sachin Tendulkar, etc, at the table of pure greatness.
It’s a status that James has always been pegged as having the potential to attain, but until now, has fallen short.
The key word in the previous paragraph is potential. It’s probably the one word most athletes hate hearing when it’s associated with them.
For if they’re still talking about your potential, it means you haven’t reached it. And no one wants to leave people thinking ‘they could have achieved more’.
Yet James is about to leave the dreaded ‘p’ word in his considerable wake.
It’s often said that perception overrules reality, and never has a statement been more relevant or apt than when discussing LeBron James.
The perception of James, and the major knock, has been that he’s a choker. Can’t close. Lacks the ability to finish games. In fact, it’s the only legitimate criticism of James, as he’s otherwise the perfect basketballer.
Perceptions don’t just come from nowhere. There is always an element of truth to them. That’s how these things start.
As such, James reputation for being a choker has some merit, but based almost exclusively upon a poor performance versus against Boston in 2009, during his last season for the Cleveland Cavaliers, and his sub-par series against Dallas last year.
Two series? That’s it?
Every single great player has had a bad series or two. And every player is allowed to have a bad series or two. So far, LeBron has had two really bad series. Yet somehow the choker label has stuck.
It’s absolutely ridiculous. All the greatest players have some blips on their career when it comes to performing in the clutch.
In the 1984 NBA Finals, Magic Johnson played so badly that he was re-nicknamed Tragic Johnson, and his Lakers mockingly called the Fakers.
Larry Bird shot an extremely poor 38% in the 1982 Eastern Conference Finals, as his heavily favoured Boston Celtics didn’t even make the Finals. And in game 4 of the 1987 NBA Finals, Bird missed a wide open three pointer on the buzzer that would have won the game.
For years, Michael Jordan’s teams struggled to get past the Boston Celtics and Detroit Pistons in the Eastern Conference playoffs. Whilst he wasn’t necessarily considered a choker in the traditional sense, the perception grew that Jordan couldn’t win a championship with his style of play.
Amongst James’ contemporaries, Kobe Bryant is considered the most clutch performer. Yet, as a Lakers fan, it hurts to say, but Kobe is the most over-rated clutch performer since Reggie Miller. Yes, Kobe has hit a lot of game winners, but he’s also missed a lot.
And rest assured, if LeBron James pulled out a 6-24 shooting performance in game 7 of the NBA Finals, it wouldn’t be as easily forgotten as Kobe’s 2010 performance.
In all four cases, there is a very simple reason why those legends weren’t permanently labelled a choker. Because they won a championship. And they didn’t just win one, but multiple: Bird 3, Kobe and Magic 5, and Jordan 6.
Yet LeBron, due to his lack of championship success, has been judged by the most ridiculous, stupid, and unfair assessment a basketballer has even been held to.
The fact is that LeBron was never a choker. He’s a solid crunch time performer, with far too many impressive performances on his resume to ever be saddled with the dreaded tag.
The 48 special versus Detroit in 2007. The clutch game-winning three versus the Magic in 2009. The evisceration of the Celtics and Bulls in the 2011 Playoffs. The 45/15/5 in the do-or-die game 6 match against Boston a few weeks ago week.
And now comes the final nail in the argument that James is a choker: an NBA championship, courtesy of a magnificent Finals series on basketball’s biggest stage.
So what will his detractors accuse him of now? Arrogance? This has been the other criticism of James, and it’s just ridiculous. Magic, Bird, Jordan and Kobe were all just as cocky, if not worse, than LeBron.
Even if you still think LeBron is a choker and you think he’s arrogant, I find it hard to fathom how any proper basketball fan could fail to appreciate LeBron the player.
This is a one in a generation player we’re talking about. And what’s to hate about his game? He does absolutely everything possible on a basketball court, and does it at an elite level.
Dislike him as a person, if you must. But disliking him as a player only says to me that you either aren’t a basketball fan, or don’t appreciate basketball.
LeBron James is the best player in the NBA, and as close to the perfect basketballer as any player has ever come.
And he’s about to win an NBA championship, ensuring his legacy as an all-time great.
It also leaves his detractors with nothing rational to criticise him over.
Instead, they’ll simply have to enjoy the coronation of the King.
Ryan is an ex-representative basketballer who shot too much, and a (very) medium pace bowler. He's been with The Roar as an expert since February 2011, has written for the Seven Network and NBA Down Under, and been a regular on ABC radio. Ryan tweets from @RyanOak.
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June 22nd 2012 @ 1:05am
Johnno said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:05am | Report comment
Keep the champagne on ice Ryan he still has to win 1 more match out of 3 and yes in Miami but still has to win it. He has improved no doubt about from last year when Dirk and the dallas mavericks outclassed and tactically outsmarted the Miami heat to win last years NBA title.
And to me Oklahoma have been there worst enemy rather than Miami beating them, . Uncharacterstic errors at crucial times.
And Le Bron has to win Olympic gold this year too lead team USA to gold as the true leader of the team now not Kobe, before Le Bron can be considered on of the greats.
Charles Barkley, Malone, Stockton never won a title. But many don’t realise how good they were.
As Barkley said in an interview with micheal jordan there they are very close friends. He said to Oprah who is from chicago too, MJ was giving him stick about not winning any titles. And Barkley just said 1 word scottie Pippen. ANd how he never had as good teammates he went on to say. MJ, had Pippen, Kuckoc, Rodman, Horace grant, BJ Armstrong, steve kerr and aussie luke longley.
Le bron has the great dwayne Wade a former MVP, and the star with kobe at the 2008 Olympics, and chris bosch too.
Barkley won an MVP award, won the MVP players award of dream team USA 92, was one awesome player.
As was Malone, stockton.
But they all never had the support that Le Bron, Jordan, Majic, and Bird.
June 22nd 2012 @ 7:54am
Ryan O'Connell said | June 22nd 2012 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Johnno, I wrote this article with the knowledge I was being very presumptuous!
If the Thunder should happen to win the remaining 3 games, and make history doing so, it will be the greatest choke of all time by LeBron and Miami and I’ll have a large amount of egg of my face.
However, LeBron looks a different player this year; there is a look in his eye. I expect the Heat to win, probably even today, and prevent me from looking like a git.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:20am
stillmatic1 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:20am | Report comment
lebron the basketball player cant be touched. but lebron the man, certainly can. the choker tag is more about not sealing the deal in fourth quarters of games, because its a very rare day indeed that he doesnt put up great numbers. but just like westbrook or rondo, putting up great numbers means nothing if you cant get your team over the line at the end.
the other issue is, lebron is such a physical specimen that he too often just “trades” off on that and hasnt developed the killer instinct that the other greats added to their repertoire. and this is the most important part of a player, the mind. another issue is perhaps his lack of consistancy with his mid range jump shot. he has breakout games where he nails everything (see game 6 v boston) but it has always been a key to make him shoot jump shots to stifle his game.
unfortunately the “not 1 not 2 not 3 not 5 not 6″ will haunt him for a good few years and take the gloss off the supreme numbers he puts up each and every night. with wade seemingly on the downward slide (still productive but hardly inspiring) i find it hard to believe that miami and lebron in miami will win more than one title.
lebron is definitely a beast, but far from flawless in many aspects of play and does get hyped a lot and critiqued a lot too, so take the good with the bad. it was such a novelty seeing this rampaging 6’10 menace power his way down the court and thats the lebron that had the potential. simply trading off on his physical attributes (and why wouldnt you, really?) hasnt helped him develop that necessary last component fully yet. but i believe he might get there, albeit not again with this current miami team.
i wanted OKC to win but dont begrudge lebron and miami getting the title and you would hope makes the riff raff a little less noisy. but then, how boring would that be not to have a villian?
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:38am
Johnno said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:38am | Report comment
stillmatic1 Le Bron is 6’8 not 6’10 so there is a difference he Le Bron is more a small forwad, who can psot up to power ford when needed.
Majic Johnson was 6’9 and did post up and fill in in all positions when needed, centre, power forwad, small forwad. He Majic had one of his best games ever in 1980 in the NBA grand final he had to fill in for a Kareem, i watched the highlights he got like a triple double and was only 20 years of age a new star truly arrived and he did this playing centre in the NBA grand final in his rookie year but was a point guard filling in for the great Kareem Abdul-Jabber. But Majic was 6’9 Le Bron is only 6’8. A big difference in the NBA Karl Malone 6’10 and Le bron or pippen both 6’8.
June 22nd 2012 @ 4:22am
Mushi said | June 22nd 2012 @ 4:22am | Report comment
Listed 6’8″
But two issues there the NBA doesn’t revise heights and using a players head height is very clumsy if 2″ makes a difference.
June 22nd 2012 @ 8:04am
Ryan O'Connell said | June 22nd 2012 @ 8:04am | Report comment
Stillmatic1, I’ll agree with you on one thing – LeBron’s jumper remains inconsistent. And due to his mechanics, I think it always will. His elbow tends to flare out to the right at times, and he also doesn’t jump straight up. Combined, this means the ball doesn’t have great trajectory and it shows when he’s having an off shooting night.
However, he still has nights where he shoots the lights out, despite his flaws. And he also brings so many other talents to the table, that he always tends to have a large impact on the game.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:32am
stillmatic1 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
definitely ryan. lebron is a very complete player and at the end of the day all you can do is hope you frustrate him into being less complete in each game. just as we shouldnt criticise him overly we also shouldnt brandish him with the best ever, or greatest or other such nonsense, when in reality he hasnt created that legacy yet. the best player in the game for the last few years no doubt, but to break into the upper echelon of greats he needs to be an icon of the game. magic, bird, wilt, jordan, were and still are icons of the game, where lebron is still finding his feet in that regard (obviously!!).
you are right about the media, and how it helps perpetuate the myths, either good or bad, but man, its great entertainment. been to a couple of games at madison square garden and its just unbelievable how you get sucked into the hype and hyperbole of it all, and every play you see becomes greater than it is. you just hope that the stupidity of it all doesnt get in the way of how we remember such a great athlete.
being “clutch” isnt just about who is taking the shot, but who “wants” to take that responsibility. it may be a myth driven by the fans/media, but i can tell you now, at the end of game, when everything is on the line, its very difficult to execute a great team play, hence why the ball goes into isolation mode with the best player. in a fast game such as basketball, 5 seconds isnt a whole lot of time to organise a play when your running on the fly. you call a play, hope the guys get into position and go for it. in the middle of the game, sure, you can run a play all you like, but when its all on the line, a team movement versus a isolation play probably has the same chance of being successful. there are so many factors that contribute to this “hero” ball play, one of which is time and the pressure of the situation. at the end of the day, it all comes down to one shot and who you trust to create and make that shot, whether by a well worked offensive call or by giving it to lebron, its still one shot.
i play on a wednesday night and friday afternoon, and we run plays all game, but when its tight at the end, then we look to our best players to create the play and hope they make a good decision. sometimes we win, sometimes we dont, but who do we trust with the ball? theres a reason darren lockyer kicked all those field goals and not someone else. there is a reason dan carter gets the ball to kick the field goals, just as there is a reason why lebron, kobe, durant et al get the ball when it matters at the end of the game. and its got nothing to do with what the fans/media want either. give it to your best player, tell him a play, hope he can see enough to run it and then make a move. creating something elaborate when you have 5 guys opposing you isnt that easy, especially in the context of the winning of a game.
stress of the occasion gets to everyone, no matter how we think they should be playing ie: running an offense v an isolation play.
come on okc, get this game 5. if not, good to see lebron get what he has worked his butt off for. cant complain about 9 years worth of consistancy!!
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:46am
Ryan O'Connell said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:46am | Report comment
There’s also two ways at looking at his skill set, depending on whether you’re being positive or negative: either he’s a small forward with an erratic jumpshot. Or he’s a power forward who can play point guard. The latter is pretty darn impressive.
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:00am
stillmatic1 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:00am | Report comment
id agree with that ryan. when his team is losing he is just a small forward with a loose shot, and when his team is winning, well he aint no power forward, he is the C,PF,SF,SG,PG and coach!!
i remember playing at the cage in new york in 07 and there was this lebron clone called, wait for it, rocky road, and he was an absolute weapon on the court. dont know his history or anything, but that guy could do everything, and that day, he certainly was. luckily we didnt get on the court to play against his team (us being a couple of 6’1 white guys!!), because it wouldnt have been pretty. not that it was pretty playing the other guys anyway, but you cant help be impressed with such big guys having that kind of skillset. even now, in our league, there are some boppers that have the sweetest touch and its just a marvel and impossible to stop them. luckily we can just run them off their feet, but get into a half court set, and its hack city baby lol.
ive been disappointed about how easy lebron and co have been getting layups in this series. okc have really not shown the required intensity, and its probably due to having to beat 3 elite, experienced teams in a row. just simply run out of puff. bit like oralndo v lakers in 09, when the 3 ball just didnt drop for orlando at all, after getting them to the finals in the first place.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:56am
Scotty Barby said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:56am | Report comment
LeBron James failing to be “clutch” is a myth. For his career, when taking shots in the fourth quarter or OT with under a minute remaining and the scoring margin between +3 and -3 points, LeBron is 39/100. In the exact same scenario Kobe Bryant is 36/100 (Yes they’ve taken an identical amount of shots). Kobe was also 0-for-7 under those circumstances in these Playoffs alone. I know who I’d want shooting the ball with a game on the line.
The irony of the whole “Decision” fiasco is that we all happily ripped LeBron for going to a team that he wouldn’t have to carry. Only he’s carrying them, he has through the entire Playoffs.
LeBron won’t only be adding a Championship ring to his resume, he’ll be adding a Finals MVP as well.
June 22nd 2012 @ 4:25am
Mushi said | June 22nd 2012 @ 4:25am | Report comment
The other thing with all that it assumes hero ball is the most “clutch” way to play despite all the evidence suggesting otherwise.
June 22nd 2012 @ 7:59am
Ryan O'Connell said | June 22nd 2012 @ 7:59am | Report comment
So true Mushi. Great point. Hero ball and ‘closing’ are the two biggest myths in the NBA.
Most good teams hover around 45% field goal shooting, and that’s primarily done via running offense. Yet most teams go ‘hero ball’ in the last minute of the game, and the league wide shooting percentage plummets to below 30% in that time period.
Hero ball is low percentage basketball, and it’s perpetuated by the media and fans who wants players to be ‘clutch’.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:28am
mushi said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Apprently Chris Paul’s teams tend to have great “clutch” performances offensively because he still passes the ball
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:49am
stillmatic1 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
he is a smart player thats for sure, and thus is more likely to make the right play due to his ability to score or give the assist. but is he the one most “trusted” to make the decision at the end of the game? the answer is probably a yes, and therefore helps to perpetuate the myth of players needing to be “clutch”. the winning move is the right move, and i could guarentee that chris has had just as much success calling a play as he has with being the hero himself. its all about what the opposition gives you and what your teammates do to counter that.
June 22nd 2012 @ 2:01am
Johnno said | June 22nd 2012 @ 2:01am | Report comment
Dirk got the better of le Bron last year in the crucial 4th quarters Scott Barby, le Brons stats last year in the NBA grand final series were not that flash.
June 22nd 2012 @ 4:26am
Mushi said | June 22nd 2012 @ 4:26am | Report comment
Your point?
As Ryan says are you seriously going to judge his entire career on one series?
June 22nd 2012 @ 3:39am
Steve said | June 22nd 2012 @ 3:39am | Report comment
There’s a touch of the ‘leave Britney alone’ here.
Le Bron winning a championship won’t automatically make him better than Jordan or Kobe, and that’s the only way he can live up to the hype and really silence the critics. It may not be fair that the hype is such, but putting him up with Sachin Tendulkar or Roger Federer just makes it easier for critics: ‘one championship’ they’ll say ‘and you’re comparing him to Federer?’
June 22nd 2012 @ 5:02am
amazonfan said | June 22nd 2012 @ 5:02am | Report comment
“It may not be fair that the hype is such, but putting him up with Sachin Tendulkar or Roger Federer just makes it easier for critics: ‘one championship’ they’ll say ‘and you’re comparing him to Federer?’ ”
I agree. While I do think he’s an all-time great already, and while a championship and a finals MVP will enhance his standing, he’s not at the level of Tendulkar/Federer/Woods. Tendulkar is perhaps the greatest specialist batsman since Bradman, and at worst is India’s greatest ever cricketer. Federer is one of the two, perhaps three, greatest tennis players of all time (IMO he’s second behind only Laver), and Woods is one of the two greatest golfers of all time. LeBron, who became an all-time great the moment he won his first MVP, is at best one of the 15 greatest players of all time. There are many who would argue that even that is too high. Nonetheless, a championship isn’t going to launch him into the top 10, and certainly not into Tendulkar/Federer/Woods territory. Interestingly, I do thinbk he can be compared to Messi, especially given Messi’s failure to perform at the World Cup.
June 22nd 2012 @ 8:12am
Ryan O'Connell said | June 22nd 2012 @ 8:12am | Report comment
I think the point was more that those guys are the active greats at their respective sports, and once James wins a championship, he earns the right to be mentioned with them.
Whilst I personally believe he was already the best basketballer in the world, there were many people that wanted him to win a ring before crowning him with that title. Once he does win a championship, there will be little doubt he’s the best player and will therefore be be basketball’s representative at the metaphorical table where all the greats in other sports sit.
June 22nd 2012 @ 4:38am
amazonfan said | June 22nd 2012 @ 4:38am | Report comment
“Yes, Kobe has hit a lot of game winners, but he’s also missed a lot.”
So did Jordan. Bird also missed more shots than he shot.
“And rest assured, if LeBron James pulled out a 6-24 shooting performance in game 7 of the NBA Finals, it wouldn’t be as easily forgotten as Kobe’s 2010 performance.”
For an article in which you are attempting to shatter the myth that LeBron isn’t clutch, you are still perpertrating one of the most annoying (not to mention simplistic) myths about Kobe’s game 7 performance; that it wasn’t clutch. And this from a Lakers fan!
The Lakers won by just 4 points. They had a terrible field goal %. In fact Kobe wasn’t the only Laker to shoot poorly, and Fisher, with 4/6, was the only Laker to shoot above 50%, and he had just 6 shooting attempts, as opposed to Kobe who had 24, Gasol who had 6/16 and Peace who had 7/18. Kobe’s field goal % was worse, but he wasn’t Robinson Crusoe. Additionally, the Lakers shot just 32.5% (27/83) from the field, as opposed to the Celtics who shot 40.8% (29/71). The Lakers also scored 58 points from the field, as opposed to the Celtics who scored 64 points.
There were arguably two major reasons why the Lakers won the match.
The first is rebounding. The Lakers scored 6 less points from the field and didn’t shoot as well as the Celtics, yet they had 12 more scoring attempts. Their rebounding is one reason why they were able to stay in the match. They had 53 total rebounds to the Celtics’ 40 and 23 offensive rebounds to the Celtics’ 8. Kobe is a major reason for the Lakers winning this battle. He had 15 total rebounds including four offensive rebounds. He is one of only four players to have had four + offensive rebounds, and only one player (Gasol) had more than him. The other two players (Rondo and Bynum) had four offensive rebounds exactly. In a game in which just two Celtics had multiple offensive rebounds, as opposed to five Lakers, offensive rebounds were of massive significance. Then there was total rebounds. Kobe had 15, second only to Gasol’s 18. Paul Pierce was third with 10. Kobe was therefore out-rebounded by just one other player, and he’s a guard!
The other reason why the Lakers won is free throw shooting. Not only did they score more points from the free throw line (25 to 15) but they got to the line more often (37 attempts to 17). The Celtics were more efficient, but the Lakers made up for their relative lack of efficiency by simply getting to the line more often. Kobe was one of only two players to get to the line 10 + times (the other being Gasol) and got there more often than any other player. He shot 11/15, Gasol was second with 7/13.
There is an argument that Gasol (who scored 19 points, behind only Kobe and Peace) was superior. That’s perfectly valid, however Kobe shouldn’t be overlooked.
Kobe was brilliant, and the only reason that he doesn’t get the respect that he deserves for his performance is that too many basketball fans are obsessed with scoring. They fail to see the significance he had in terms of rebounding and getting to the line. As a Lakers fan, you shouldn’t fall for that, and as such, I don’t think you should be allowed back into the Lakers fan club until you apologize to Kobe for helping to peddle this ridiculous myth.
June 22nd 2012 @ 8:18am
Ryan O'Connell said | June 22nd 2012 @ 8:18am | Report comment
Hey amazonfan, I think you slightly missed my point on that particular Kobe reference.
I wasn’t so much suggesting Kobe wasn’t clutch, I was more asking, can you imagine the hammering LeBron would cop if he shot 6-24 in a game 7 of the NBA Finals?
Kobe didn’t get pilloried for it very much, and rightfully so for the reasons you pointed out. But LeBron would have been killed in the press and by fans.
June 24th 2012 @ 8:23pm
amazonfan said | June 24th 2012 @ 8:23pm | Report comment
Actually, I don’t know if you visit American sports sites (such as Bleacher Report) but Kobe very much gets pillorised for it by anti-Kobe basketball fans. Whenever someone mentions that Kobe is clutch (which he is) there’s always someone mentioning his 6/24 shooting from that match, even though he was still extremely clutch, but in a different way.
June 24th 2012 @ 8:35pm
Ryan O'Connell said | June 24th 2012 @ 8:35pm | Report comment
Very few respected sites or journalists gave Kobe a hard time for long. Yes, anti-Kobe individuals still bring it up occasionally, but my point remains: if it was LeBron that shot 6-24, a much, much bigger deal would have been made of it.
June 22nd 2012 @ 3:59pm
mushi said | June 22nd 2012 @ 3:59pm | Report comment
Anyone else see the irony of someone defending Kobe saying that we focus on scoring too much in response to a Lebron article?
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:08pm
amazonfan said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:08pm | Report comment
There’s nothing ironic about it. Yes, Kobe focuses too much on scoring himself, but he is and always has been more than just a scorer. Not to mention that Lebron is a fantastic scorer, and has been for almost his entire career.
June 25th 2012 @ 2:53pm
mushi said | June 25th 2012 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
If after saying he focuses too much on scoring you still can’t see it then forever shall you remain blind.
June 25th 2012 @ 8:12pm
amazonfan said | June 25th 2012 @ 8:12pm | Report comment
Whatever, I don’t need to be told anything about basketball by the likes of you. All I will say is that if you still can’t see that Kobe is more than just a scorer, and Lebron is a great scorer, then forever shall you remain blind.
Oh, and thanks for not reading my post. Pathetic.
June 22nd 2012 @ 4:38am
Mushi said | June 22nd 2012 @ 4:38am | Report comment
Nope but the three mvps by this age should make him better than Kobe
June 22nd 2012 @ 6:00am
amazonfan said | June 22nd 2012 @ 6:00am | Report comment
No, it doesn’t. MVPs aren’t everything.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:27am
mushi said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:27am | Report comment
So what does then Amazon fan? Heaven forbid individual awards are used in the process of judging who is a better individual player. Hell that is almost rational!
Let me guess the only measure by which we can analyse individual performance is team success despite the whole concept of team results is that it is derived from more than one individual.
I also note that in doing this type of analysis with Kobe Bryant I’ve never seen anyone assume that Steve Kerr is in fact a better player than Kobe. Or that Rasheed Wallace is better than Charles Barkley. If not why not Kobe wasn’t the best player for those 5 rings
But if we look at individual’s contributions, a very novel concept when comparing two individuals, here are some of the break downs.
First because I take it you’ve not big into stats that aren’t per game points scored lets look at career MVP vote shares. Yes the MVP is a flawed judge but unfortunately the only qualitative measure which is recorded each year.
This essentially judges the share (or we could clumsily call them votes) of each MVP award each player gets over the course of their career a system adjusted number of MVP votes based on the largely subjective assessment of basketball journo.
Kobe is #11 all time with 4.054 “awards” which is rarefied company.
However in 7 fewer seasons LeBron is already at 4.389 “awards”. Yes despite still not having played through his basketball prime yet LeBron has already been given more subjective validation than Kobe and now sits at a table Kobe will never gain access to.
Factoring in voter fatigue I think he’ll grab about 6.0 to 7.0 over the course of his career, putting him at either second or third on that list.
Now moving on from the subjective stuff let us look at the game stats. These two guys aren’t even on the same page statistically.
In terms of totals Kobe is clearly ahead given his career is almost double in length but not by nearly as much as he’ll require to hold off Lebron in anything but points (even then it is shaky as he’s only ~50% more despite ~75% more years in the league).
Here are the per game break downs, to not be accused of cherry picking if you go to basketball reference and look at the following and if you believe I’ve left something out feel free to add it in:
Advanced Stats: Across 12 metrics (PER/TS%/EFG%/REB%/AST%/STL%/SLK%/TOV%/USE/Orate/Drate/Win shares per 48):
Kobe: 1 (Turnover % is 0.7% better)
LeBron: 11 (with huge stand outs in PER, rebounding rates, assit rates, block rated and win shares)
Simple per game for those that still use these as a measure of any worth across another 11
(FG%, 3pts, 3pt%, FTA, FT%, REB, ASS, STL, BLK, TO, Pts)
Kobe: 3 with FT%, 3pt% and TOs. With a sizeable (10%) advantage in FT%
LeBron: 7 with sizeable advantages in Assists, rebounds, Free throw attempts, steals and blocks
Evens: Three pointers
The only argument you can mount for Kobe is the 5 rings whilst conveniently forgetting the English definitions of team and individual and that Shaq won finals MVP for three of those. So by all means lets count rings as everything an just anoint the bench from Russel’s Celtics as amongst the greatest all time players.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:48am
mushi said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
Interestingly also compare their career playoff stats and LeBron shines through even more…
It’s jsut this is the seocnd season he’s played with an elite player.
June 22nd 2012 @ 7:09am
rsingi said | June 22nd 2012 @ 7:09am | Report comment
Le Bron may be the greatest at the moment but I believe with this years expereince Durant is going to become one of the best we have ever seen.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:15am
Ryan O'Connell said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
I think they both will be considered all time greats by the time they finish their careers.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:29am
mushi said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
Hopefully this year is just one of many encounters between the two.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:54am
The Bush said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Can my new angle be an old one? He’s still a jerk and a moron. Plus he can only win when he plays for a “super team”.
I gave it a shot…
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:03am
Ryan O'Connell said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:03am | Report comment
HAHA! Of course you can!
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:45am
The Bush said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:45am | Report comment
I’ll never forgive the bloke for his comments about not shaking hands. Anybody who behaves and thinks like that is a small person where it counts…
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:30pm
Mushi said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Fair call.
June 22nd 2012 @ 8:26pm
Gleeso said | June 22nd 2012 @ 8:26pm | Report comment
The sentiment of not shaking hands was obvoiusly unconventianal in sport. But i quite like his logic. Anyway he is a changed man and is not feeding off the hate anymore. Everyone will learn to love Lebron.
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:31pm
amazonfan said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:31pm | Report comment
“Everyone will learn to love Lebron.”
I very much doubt that. I don’t think he will ever be loved outside of his fanbase. Which is fine. Not all sports greats are meant to be loved by all. It’s like cricket. For every Warnie, there’s a Ricky Ponting. Lebron is basketball’s Ricky Ponting back when Ponting was dominating.
As for shaking hands, IMO it’s mandatory. I don’t care how competitive you are, or how you feel when losing, you MUST always shake hands. If you don’t, you’re just a terrible sport.
June 22nd 2012 @ 8:13pm
Banger said | June 22nd 2012 @ 8:13pm | Report comment
I agree, he lost all credibility with me when he had ‘chosen one’ tattooed on his back
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:09pm
Ryan O'Connell said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
The Heat and LeBron are one quarter away from preventing this article from looking really bad!