What is ‘western Sydney’ supposed to represent?
By Mike Tuckerman, 22 Jun 2012 Mike Tuckerman is a Roar Expert
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- A-League, football, Sydney FC, western Sydney
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FFA CEO Ben Buckley at the A-League's Western Sydney club announcement (Image courtesy Fox Sports)
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The A-League draw may be out but the letters ‘TBA’ are peppered throughout the schedule. And while we are tantalisingly close to knowing the full composition of the A-League’s newest club, what does it really mean for fans in Sydney?
Perhaps the proposed ‘Wanderers’ moniker is a nod to the fact the new western Sydney team will be wandering all over the city in search of a home ground?
A-League draw inspires confidence for the season ahead
I kid, of course, and am well aware of the historical significance of the name – linked as it is to the first local side reputed to have played in the region.
But when the A-League’s newest team is yet to finalise a ground, let alone a name, playing squad or team colours, it’s a bit difficult to get excited about what it all means for the competition.
And that’s especially the case when three A-League clubs have already come and gone and another has failed to get off the ground.
Much has already been written about the defunct New Zealand Knights, North Queensland Fury, Gold Coast United and the non-existent Sydney Rovers.
But few critics have questioned what kind of impact a new western Sydney team will have on Sydney FC and the city’s lower league clubs.
It’s a question I ponder as someone who used to travel from Sydney’s north-western fringes to the Sydney Football Stadium on a regular basis.
In all the hullaballoo over the creation of a new club, has anyone else wondered what Football Federation Australia expects western-Sydney based Sydney FC fans to do?
After all, it’s not as if a single A-League club can afford to bleed fans to a rival entity, least of all Sydney FC.
Will a western Sydney club honestly bring a raft of new fans through the gate? Why weren’t these fans going to Sydney FC games in the first place?
I personally think this whole ‘western Sydney identity’ is overblown.
When someone can geographically define what ‘western Sydney’ is actually supposed to be is when fans from Campbelltown might feel an affinity for a Parramatta-based football club.
And while I think it’s a sensible move from a marketing point of view to try to appeal to as broad a fan base as possible, I also hope there’s been some consideration given to the fact that many who play the game in western Sydney are already rusted-on fans of other clubs.
And that includes teams like Marconi and Sydney United now plying their trade in the New South Wales Premier League.
There’s nothing to say fans of those particular clubs can’t support an A-League team as well.
But if the hostility towards the A-League from certain sections of Sydney Olympic supporters is anything to go by, it’ll be a long time yet before there’s universal acceptance of a club purporting to represent western Sydney.
With all that said, I still want the western Sydney team to be a rip-roaring success.
The league itself can ill afford another failure and it should be seen as a positive that the sports-mad fans of the nation’s most sprawling city now have a second top A-League team to call their own.
But just as Melbourne Heart seemed to cannibalise somewhat from the Victory support, so too is there a danger for Sydney FC’s crowds to fall in the wake of the addition of a new team.
What would be far more preferable (obviously) is for the new club’s arrival to energise supporters and help give the A-League a boost throughout the city.
And for that reason Monday can’t come quickly enough, with football fans finally set to be given a clearer understanding of just who ‘western Sydney’ are and precisely what they are supposed to represent.
Mike Tuckerman is a Sydney-born journalist and lifelong football fan. After lengthy stints watching the beautiful game in Germany and Japan, he has settled in Brisbane and has been a Roar columnist since December 2008. Follow Mike on twitter @Mike_Tuckerman
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- A-League, football, Sydney FC, western Sydney

June 22nd 2012 @ 3:16am
Midfielder said | June 22nd 2012 @ 3:16am | Report comment
Mike
The real test of the management of WS is uniting the tribes
Tribe 1 the former NSL clubs… Olympic, Marconi. Sydney United, White Eagles, Blacktown Demons, Penrith, Melta Eagles, … now add the major state and former state clubs of a reasonable size St Andrews, Bankstown Bumble Bees.. that 11 big clubs..
Tribe 2 … five associations… there is some real history between the associations and the NSL & State teams…
Tribe 3 … The Euro snobs
Tibe 4 … The Soccer Mums they need to feel important, welcome and safe the media can do a lot to help in this ..
Unite these tribes and this is the biggest sporting team in Australia … the stats are amazing 100, 000 registered park players, 11 former NSL & State clubs and still operating clubs some with their own income earning club as support…over half of all Socceroos have come from WS…
These figures do not include east of Parramatta from towns like Ryde, Eastwood, Epping, Slverwater, Lidcombe etc all with huge player numbers and if they play at Parrmatta less than 15 minutes away…
AS for SFC they are and have been in the main and Eastern Sub, Inter City subs and Southern Sydney Sub’s…
Hopefully Gorman & Popa can unite the tribes … just not against the Mariners…
June 22nd 2012 @ 3:35am
Johnno said | June 22nd 2012 @ 3:35am | Report comment
Mid yes good point. Sydney FC did it in the east with the likes of Hakoah, and maybe Apia Leichardt who identify i think both geographically with inner west sydney but also east sydney.
The other issue for me Midfielder will be stadium choice. Concord Oval, Belmore oval, Campelltown oval, Homebush, also the showground where GWS play, and Penrith, or even play at Bossley Park Marconi, or even Leichardt that will be a problem for the new west sydney team.
As the west covers so much areas and multiple different catchment eg north-west,south-west, just where will there permanentt home ground be, .
West tigers rugby league club in the NRL have had that problem playing at many different stadiums for a variety of reasons.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:32am
oly09 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
Parramatta has to be the home ground, it can’t be a travelling roadshow playing all over the place.
Also Skoda Stadium (showground) is an oval ground, Belmore is not up to scratch, Leichhardt isn’t western Sydney, Concord Oval isn’t western Sydney either and Campbelltown and Penrith are too far out.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:36am
Kasey said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
It will not be a travelling road show. Only the AFL seem arrogant enough to try that(Skoda, ANZ and Canberra) . Put your money on Parramatta stadium with the long term aspiration goal of a facility at Blacktown where the World Cup stadium was supposed to be.
June 22nd 2012 @ 8:59am
Kasey said | June 22nd 2012 @ 8:59am | Report comment
You ask if a new WS club will bring a raft of new fans through the door? I urge you to jump on the forums of http://www.WestSydneyfootball.com and have a look. They already 3 months out from season kick off and less a name, logo and home ground have more of a buzz about them than any other expansion attempt in the A-League’s short history. One poster(Marcel) writes as coach of a juniors team in the area and obviously a teacher:I’m going to be glued to my phone during the whole day (even when i’m in class teaching) to check for updates on the 25th. My students know how passionate I am about football and the new team. Can’t wait to hang a flag/banner in my classroom!
MattyB: Any known HAL club fans among them marcel?
Marcel: Yep, I know at least 10 kids (and this is just from the seniors) who are keen on the new team.
The online buzz is that there are a bunch of people who felt unable to engage with Sydney FC for what ever reason and will jump at the chance to support a team of their own in the HAL. It reminds me of the onkline buzz surrounding the formation of Adelaide United in 2003. I expect his team to be an unqualified success and I wonder what the negative-nellies will write about when it turns out that way. Even the king of the anti-brigade, Fink has only written one article (negative of course!) on the new team. For sure the egg will be on a lot of haterz faces come Christmastime this year.
June 22nd 2012 @ 2:38pm
Michael said | June 22nd 2012 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
I agree Kasey, same thing happened in Perth, when The Dockers came about. There was a huge amount of people in WA who didn’t engage with The Eagles. Fremantle is the heartland of footy in WA and a team from there was a must. The Eagles crowds increased after the Dockers came into the comp. On-field for a variety of reasons the Dockers haven’t achieved but off-field they have over 40000 members and are financially strong.
I believe the new West Stydney A-League team will be a huge success and I for one simply because of my love of football and wanting wanting The A-League to be the best it can will be signing up for a membership even though I have no affiliation to anything NSW.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:19am
AGO74 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Good post Middy and I as a long-time fan of Sydney FC, I agree with your statement on where existing Sydney FC fans are from.
Sydney FC have estranged people in the past. There is no doubting that. However, over the last 12-18 months, there has been terrific progress and I expect this to continue under Pignata. West Sydney’s introduction for mine will only benefit Sydney FC.
June 22nd 2012 @ 4:48pm
Midfielder said | June 22nd 2012 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
AGO74
Agree with you on Pignata and with Crooky as coach you look to be getting a strong off field management structure something I think SFC apart from Hal 1 has enjoyed…
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:27am
Kasey said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:27am | Report comment
I’m not sure how the perception you hinted at in that families need to “ feel safe” can be changed. The A-League has been playing for 7 full seasons now and in that time I reckon more fans have been seriously injured attending many other sports, but I struggle to even think of one instance where a person at a HAL venue has left with even a bloody nose. I still get asked on the odd occasion by randoms at work if it is safe to go to a soccer game. For that we can thank the history of violence on English terraces in the 80s giving rise to the stereotype of the Soccer Hooligan and the continual beating up of anything that looks remotely different as being a ‘ riot at a soccer game’ here. Flares at ARF is condoned, flares at HAL = hooliganism: ( Chanting at your rivals also seems to be hooliganism under the Todaytonight formula:( What can we hopnestly and realistically do as football fans in this country?
June 22nd 2012 @ 4:46pm
Midfielder said | June 22nd 2012 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
Kasey
I know that you know that … but ever read the media and if your are a soccer mum in WS you don’t that… what you have heard is that Sydney United & Marconi fight [just using these teams as an example not saying they do] …
Soccer Mums in WS make up a huge audience and their sons and daughters will come if Mums says OK..
June 22nd 2012 @ 8:00pm
Kasey said | June 22nd 2012 @ 8:00pm | Report comment
Yes we both know it Mid, but what can we as football fans do to help change the perception of the game? If we can do anything at all. Maybe it will just take years/decades to change the fact that people think of the bloody pommy hooligans when they think of Soccer? Time heals all and I wonder how many would have thought that Australia and Japan would become close Pacific Allies in the 20th century after WWII.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:17am
striker said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
They need to get the name and ground out ASAP as time is running out and this could be a disaster if not done properly.soccer fans will come at first but keeping onto them will be the hard part.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:21am
Kasey said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Striker:
My read on the situation is it seems to be more fans of other teams agitating for the colours and home ground announcement. Actual WS Fans on their forums appear able to wait until Monday 25th now that they have a concrete date to circle in the calendar. The theory being they’ve waited long enough to even get a team they can wait one or two more days if it means their team is getting things right.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:25am
Happy Hooker said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
Bogans?
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:29am
Kasey said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
reserved for the re-entry of the Gippland team surely?
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:35am
whiskeymac said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:35am | Report comment
i was optimistic about the fury, gcu and even the rovers and posted as such, on this site, when they were proposed/ introduced. i sincerely hope, and as someone who will go watch them play, the FFA have learnt from the past and get this one right. there is enough population, infrastructure and history to make it a success. SFC have their own issues – they rarely connect out west and i cant see this effecting them too much, the point of differentiation between the two may even help them develop an identity of their own instead of trying to be all things “sydney” by having token games every now and then in campbelltown or wherever.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:42am
Kasey said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:42am | Report comment
Oddly Whiskeymac, I see the introduction of the new team as a positive for SFC. Unlike MHT, which appeared to cannibalize a bit of MVC support due to there being no obvious point of difference between the2 teams. The geographic split between WS and Sydney is as obvious as the one between Newcastle and Sydney. The new team will generate big publicity around the Sydney derby and this will be a huge game when SFC to host at SFS. Any unaligned potential supporters are likely to see the introduction of the new team as the time to choose one or the other. SFC will inevitably lose a tiny percentage of their members to the new team, but I expect them to be more than just 1 for 1 replaced by the unaligned choosing the sky blues going into the future.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:39am
Minister for Information for the Democratic People's Republic of Football said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:39am | Report comment
Western Sydney will represent anyone that lives west of Central station who thinks a ball is round.There you go.
On another note, it looks like the name Wanderers is locked in. Ok, I’ll come around to it eventually. But the the funny thing is the NSL already had a “Wanderers” team, also known as Sydney Olympic. The true nomads of the NSL.
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:35am
Titus said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:35am | Report comment
Lol….a joke right? Why would people from Glebe, Leichhardt, Five Dock, Newtown etc travel to Parramatta?
West Sydney will represent anyone who finds it easier to get to Parramatta Stadium and hasn’t already comitted to SFC.
SFC doesn’t represent the Eastern Suburbs, it represents the city of Sydney, the SFS is a comfortable walk from Central Station.
There are as many people in the Sutherland Shire, St George, Inner West, Eastern Suburbs, Northern Suburbs, Manly Warringah and Kurringai districts playing Football as there are in the supposed heartland of the west.
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:12am
AGO74 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:12am | Report comment
Sutherland Shire has the biggest local district comp in Australia (I think).
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:57am
Titus said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:57am | Report comment
Sounds about right.
June 23rd 2012 @ 11:13am
Minister for Information for the Democratic People's Republic of Football said | June 23rd 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Ok, Titus, I know Sydney FC draws supporters from the inner-western suburbs you mentioned. As for the south, and lower north shore…. I always considered them to be SFC orientated ahead of a western sydney side.
It’s not like it’s as simple as drawing a line on a map of sydney anyway. I made the comment simply to inform people who are not from sydney about where the west of sydney begins and that is west of central station.
I lived in Bankstown for a couple of years which is still inner west and if I lived there now and didn’t already have an allegiance with SFC and wanted to go and see HAL football I would probably lean towards the team playing in Parramatta as opposed to the one playing in Paddington.
June 23rd 2012 @ 11:24am
Wanderer said | June 23rd 2012 @ 11:24am | Report comment
I live in Drummoyne and have never felt anything but contempt for Sydney FC. After waiting 5 years, I will travel to Parramatta, Blacktown or Broken Hill to support Western Sydney FC.
June 23rd 2012 @ 12:11pm
Kasey said | June 23rd 2012 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
Drummoyne is ‘West’ of Balmain;) LOL A snappy ferry ride to Parramatta and a short walk to Parra stadium. seems too easy to me:)
Good luck with your new team, welcome to the HAL:)
June 23rd 2012 @ 12:17pm
Minister for Information for the Democratic People's Republic of Football said | June 23rd 2012 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
Yes good on you wanderer. No wait……DAMN YOU! Long live the sky blues!!
June 23rd 2012 @ 3:32pm
Titus said | June 23rd 2012 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
Yeah, good luck with your team….once it comes into existence that is.
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:10am
AGO74 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Realistically, people from inner west don’t really associate themselves as being from that indefinable term “the greater west”. The invisible line for mine would probably be in line in a roughish north-south direction from where the M4 starts in Strathfield.
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:43am
Kasey said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Inner West Trendies are in their own little world aren’t they? If football suddenly becomes cool/fashionable, they’ll be there ontheir fixies in no time:) As long as they can find a red or black cardigan:)
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:02pm
Titus said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
The a-league faces the two pronged obstacle of perception and lack of exposure i.e people barely know it exists/is on and even if they did they have heard/think it would be crap.
On the plus side there are enough people who inform themselves and who are witnessing a good competition that continues to improve……..as you say once these perceptions and lack of exposure are overcome there is an enormous community of Football leaning people to draw from.
June 25th 2012 @ 10:42pm
dohmatt said | June 25th 2012 @ 10:42pm | Report comment
Skivvies, please! Can’t wait to ride my single-speed to the quay for that lovely Rivercat ride…
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:51am
Christo the Daddyo said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:51am | Report comment
I agree that sporting organisations seem to be treating “western Sydney” as a single entity. Anyone who has actually lived here would realise this is complete folly.
The team should simply be called ‘Sydney Wanderers’. Play at Parramatta Stadium.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:58am
Kasey said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:58am | Report comment
That would be fine Christo if the team was being imposed from above, but at the many fan forums the FFA instituted, the fans overwhelmingly indicated they wanted West or Western in their name. It appears FFA have learned from their previous mistakes and are listening to the fans. Lyall Gorman has already revealed that the new team will have Western Sydney in its name. The hot tip is for Wanderers to be added after WS. All indications are that the fans are going to be very happy with the team they have helped shape already. As an AU fan I am already looking forward to our first trip there in December.
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:14am
AGO74 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:14am | Report comment
+1 (except on being an AU fan!)
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:27pm
Kasey said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
And this is where Fink is incredibly hypocritical. I won’t do him the service of hyper linking his recent crap, but the gist of his gripe us that the name Wanderers is hardly inspiring and the WS is “doomed to failure” The man lacks even the basic premise of balance. He has repeatedly carped on about Frank Lowy (and by extension the FFA) not listening to the football community and this is why it makes the mistakes that it does. Of course, as soon as FFA start listening to the community in this instance it appears the fans of Western Sydney will get everything they asked for regarding name, colours and even home ground, but because his mates in the previous bids didn’t get the FFA nod he has a bee in his bonnet about hating on the FFA. If one were only to read the articles published by the Fink, one would think that football in this country was doomed with no hope for the future rather than the burgeoning sense of optimism that currently surrounds the domestic game. Fink is tedious in the extreme. If you care nothing for your sanity you can google search for his crap. I value my sanity and am busy working in my little field to build the league and it supporter culture.
June 22nd 2012 @ 4:47pm
p.Tah said | June 22nd 2012 @ 4:47pm | Report comment
I quite like the Western Sydney Wanderers… but WSW is an interesting acronym in dating circles. May bring a wider demographic
June 22nd 2012 @ 7:43pm
Kasey said | June 22nd 2012 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
White Single Woman?
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:03pm
p.Tah said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:03pm | Report comment
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/WSW
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:09pm
Kasey said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:09pm | Report comment
Oh dear, I learned a new acronym today:)
Lesbos is part of Greece right?
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:13am
jbinnie said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:13am | Report comment
Reading all these offerings there is an underlying message ,always hinted at ,but never actually spelled out.That is “whose job is it to attract fans to a club whether it be (in this case) an original ,Sydney FC, or a new identity ??????. There is only one real answer to this &, it is a fact that is,& has been, ignored for too long & only last season we began to see signs that the message was at last getting through,especially at Jets,& to a lesser extent Roar.
The answer????. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF A CLUB/FRANCHISE/COMPANY,(call it what you may) TO MARKET ITSELF TO THE ADJACENT AREA IN WHICH IT OPERATES.
Failure to do this can only have one ending as we have seen before now, & it is to this end the FFA, in having a direct input into this new identity, has to tread very carefully for they will be judged on the results of their endeavours, & that cannot be in a “reactive” sense,(there is no benefit in closing the gate after the horse has bolted), they will have to be “proactive” in everything they do & I think this may be what is worrying some pundits just a little,for a lot of water has gone under the bridge since the original announcement, & to be brutally honest, the constant flow of good information that could ,& perhaps should, have been flowing out to those potential fans who attended the forums, (a good proactive idea), does not appear to have happened.Let’s hope this will not affect greatly the outcome of what we all hope will be an outstanding success in the West, but the “winning of minds” by the new identity has to start soon for much time has been already lost. jb
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:11am
Midfielder said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:11am | Report comment
JB
I agree and can only assume that Gorman is waiting till a break in the general sports calendar [SOO etc] and in having something of a good story to tell..
The West Sydney forum thinks they have signed at least ten players maybe more … there has also been a lot of behind the scenes work being with the former NSL teams & Associations… getting the stadium right is so important as well…
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:20am
AGO74 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:20am | Report comment
It may sound odd but for mine the lack of news is actually a good sign. There has been a lot of rumours about signings etc. Interestingly, none of those players has denied (or confirmed to be fair) signing. When you consider these players being courted are out of contract, if they did not have something in ink with the new team they’d be coming out denying it so that way they aren’t putting other potential suitors off.
The proof will be in the pudding on Monday but I suspect there will be a lot of information released on Monday.
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:30am
donocanto said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:30am | Report comment
Cannibalisation is an interesting issue.
The Mariners have historically done as much if not more community engagement work in the northern reaches of Sydney than Sydney FC. This made sense because the football from Sydney has regularly been eye-bleeding to watch and it was quicker to smash up the F3 than trek out to the SFS on public transport. Sydney FC seem to be trying to redress this in recent times and eg have their training base at Macquarie.
But if Western Sydney then go for any folks eg west of George St then what will Sydney FC be left with? Eastern suburbs? Then you have 3 teams fighting over punters from anywhere north of the harbour bridge?
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:39am
Minister for Information for the Democratic People's Republic of Football said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:39am | Report comment
As a SFC fan I have already accepted we will be the little boys compared to West Sydney down the track in terms of attendances but that doesn’t have to spell disaster for us.
A bit like Aston Villa in comparison to Birmingham FC in Birmingham.
Birmingham FC have always had more fans but that hasn’t stopped Villa from achieving great things.
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:08am
donocanto said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
That’s a fair point but presumably that wouldn’t be Sydney FC’s plan though, especially in the short term? Aren’t they meant to be bringing back the bling? If they accept that they’ll lose part of their crowd then who are they bringing the bling to exactly (especially if the team has a poor start)?
Perhaps they should take it as a massive kick up the pants to get themselves out there to appeal to more parts of Sydney. Common sense would suggest that they need to aggressively target the north, south and east if west is off limits. Unfortunately common sense and Sydney FC rarely go hand in hand.
Ultimately I want both teams to succeed – there are more than enough football followers in Sydney to support it. But what we don’t want are large swathes of people that are neither from the east nor the west that feel excluded. Sydney FC is still perceived as being an eastern suburbs club which it can’t be to ultimately succeed I don’t think.
June 23rd 2012 @ 11:43am
Minister for Information for the Democratic People's Republic of Football said | June 23rd 2012 @ 11:43am | Report comment
We have to accept that the arrival of Western Sydney will impact on the growth poential of SFC. But there’s no reason why SFC can’t be averaging crowds of 14 – 15 000 down the track.
Yes the areas you mentioned should be targeted first and foremost but I see more limitless potential for growth for WSW. SFC can still bring back the “bling” but it will be on the back of Tracktovenko and not through gate receipts.
It all depends on how much he or any other future owner wants it.
I’m prepared to make these concessions in return for the future Sydney derbies which will be something very special.
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:38am
TomC said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:38am | Report comment
Good article, Mike.
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:22am
Midfielder said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:22am | Report comment
JB & others
The following is from Mariner TV its their Skins series … essentially where Clarky is showing how he does his fitness things..
But the vids show in part the CEO and you can start to see what a complex it is and how it is starting to take shape… only a small part of it shown and there are some shots from Bluetounge … look at the part 4 one first …
http://www.youtube.com/user/CCMarinersOfficial/videos?query=skins
BTW if you want to look at Mariner TV here is the link … http://www.youtube.com/user/ccmarinersofficial?feature=results_main