Wallabies selections in the spotlight
By jeznez, 22 Jun 2012 jeznez is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- Mike Harris, robbie deans, Rugby Union, Wales rugby, wallabies
Robbie Deans showed he can win with the Wallabies win over Wales, but the Australian team has capitulated against the All Blacks (AAP Image/Dave Hunt)
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The Wallabies squad for this Saturday’s match against Wales is more balanced than last weeks. The inclusion of a third specialist second rower makes it a more traditional side.
However, some of Robbie Deans’ team selections still have me scratching my head.
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I’ll get the first one out of the way; those of you who have seen my posts will not be surprised that I cannot fathom why Ben Alexander has been retained over Dan Palmer. I’ve expressed my opinion on this before so won’t say much here.
I’d have given Kane Douglas the bench spot ahead of Rob Simmons. I think we have a pretty good idea what Simmons brings to the table. Given Nathan Sharpe and Dave Dennis are both capable of running the lineout, I think looking at another heavy lock should have been a priority.
This is particularly the case while there are concerns on Sitaleki Timani playing the full 80 minutes and given the pressure the scrum has been under in the last few weeks. Douglas’s large frame would have been useful.
The rest of the forwards I like. I’m always alert when Deans picks a 5-2 split on the bench, in the past (the 2009 Bledisloe Cup match at Eden Park burns in the memory) he has picked extra forward reserves and then failed to use them. Deans has used his bench better in this series than he has in the past, I’ll be hoping he uses the bench well this weekend.
Normally I wouldn’t comment on the backs but the centre pairing in particular and the dropping of last week’s hero Mike Harris suggest to me there is a missed chance here. Pat McCabe and Rob Horne are not passing the ball and doing nothing to bring their wingers into the game.
Harris, apart from coming on to kick the post-siren match winner last week, has only been given one starting chance in the Scotland game. Given the conditions and Wallabies playing style in that match, he had little opportunity to show his wares.
Anthony Faingaa has also looked good in his cameo appearances, not least when he was instrumental in the final driving maul of the game.
Was that a deliberate error commending Digby Ioane for that play?
Putting Harris in 12 and Faingaa in 13 was a very viable option for this test. If Deans is committed to his 5-2 split, then one of McCabe or Horne would miss selection. Otherwise Michael Hooper as an extra openside would make way for both being kept on the bench.
Hooper’s selection is an interesting one, I think he is a fantastic player and it is good to see him getting blooded in the international arena. However, I wonder if the complaints that Deans failed to take a back up number 7 to the Rugby World Cup are now leading to him selecting an extra one in his match day 22.
David Pocock will play 80 minutes; he warrants it both given the style of player he is and as the captain. As such Hooper is really a luxury on the bench. If he is going to have an impact on the game then Hooper needs at least 20 minutes, I’ll be very interested to see when Deans brings him on this week.
I actually like the rest of the team. For me to have issue with the reserve prop, reserve second rower and the starting centre pairing is much less of a difference than I normally have with a Deans team.
Final comment has to be on Kurtley Beale’s return and Adam Ashley-Cooper switching to the wing for Cooper Vuna. Ignoring the off-field drama this to me is the sensible obvious selection decision.
There will be many opinions over whether the fact Beale was drinking while recovering from injury, or that he simply got himself in a state for the situation to arise is reason enough for suspension.
Without having full details it seems to me to be sensible to suspend the ARU disciplinary process until the courts have determined innocence or guilt in relation to the police charges.
If Beale is found innocent by the court should he still be suspended? If found guilty and punished by the court should the ARU have that information in mind when determining any sanction?
As I say, I think the team is largely correct with just a couple of selections opportunities missed. Unfortunately any experiment with the centreso and the tight five is now going to take place in the pressure cooker of the Rugby Championship.
I think Deans has probably managed about a B+ with the selection of this team.
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June 22nd 2012 @ 2:30am
The Werewolf said | June 22nd 2012 @ 2:30am | Report comment
Enjoyed your article.
I completely agree that Douglas and Palmer may have been given a go but not because we should be giving a test shirt away. I genuinely think they are better options than Alexander and Simmons respectively. Other than taht I’d make possibly one other change in the pack. I’d bring Dennis into the starting line up and use Higginbotham off the bench for impact. Again not as a trial but because that’s what I think is best.
I think the extra no 7 has nothing to do with not taking a back up to to the RWC and Deans reluctance to use bench forwards in test matches last year reflected the lack of depth we had with the injuries we had. There is a reason why players are not in the starting line up so I’m not one that is critical of not using inferior bench players unless it is necessary or unless they are impact players. In Hooper’s case he could be the impact player we’ve been looking for. Higginbotham is another impact player and was one I thought was used effectively on a couple of occasions as a benchy last year and I have now seen enough of him in a gold no 6 jersey to think thats the best way he can contribute.
As for Harris not having had a chance to show his wares we just need to look at his performances for the reds. He unfortunately is not a player I feel has a future for the wallabies more than as a back up to when we have injuries. One of the passes he made from left to right on Saturday was amateurish and he has a limited running game. He’s a goal kicker and we have two in the line up now so he is surplus to requirement I’m afraid despite his great kick last week. Business is business. Curious you mention the lack of a passing game in the centres and then throw to Faingaa who IMHO is not a complete player at all. Yes he has a great read in defence and a good work rate at the breakdown but he has such a limited attacking game I don’t understand why he’s on the bench. What if we need a try to win the match wouldn’t it better throwing on a noted try scorer? I think Faingaa either plays the full 80min or not at all.
The only other thing I might have done is not played Beale. He has been charged with a crime so I’d have erred on the side of caution and stood him down (on full pay or whatever is in his contract because he’s innocent until proven guilty, but lets not forget you can’t get charged without evidence that would likely ultimately bring a conviction). But that hasn’t happened so he gets my support on the weekend.
June 22nd 2012 @ 7:42am
Justin2 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 7:42am | Report comment
Wolfy – just a quick one. We haven’t seen it much but AF is ctually more than capable of throwing some beautiful passes. His interplay at 12 with QC at the Reds was some excellent stuff. And each time he comes off the bench he is making an impact with aggression, speed and enthusiasm.
I’d have him over Horne every day of the week
June 22nd 2012 @ 8:06am
The Werewolf said | June 22nd 2012 @ 8:06am | Report comment
Horne is the quicker and more penetrative runner but i get the feeling both would be holding the fort for AAC to return to 13 when we have all our injured backs back.
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:18pm
redsnut said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
Horne hasn’t done much penetrating up to now.
And AAC at centre means his winger won’t see the ball once from him during the entire match.
The only occasion that I remember seeing AAC pass the bloody thing was in the last one where he collected a Welsh kick and passed it inflield.
June 22nd 2012 @ 4:59pm
The Werewolf said | June 22nd 2012 @ 4:59pm | Report comment
Horne has indeed. He’s scored 5 tries in recent weeks.
June 23rd 2012 @ 10:45pm
Impending Doom said | June 23rd 2012 @ 10:45pm | Report comment
“Horne is the quicker and more penetrative runner.” That actually made me laugh out loud, cheers for that. Pat Mccabe is a terrific sprinter with a fantastic passing game by that logic.
Oh Oh and I suppose Cooper Vuna is a more devastating runner than Jonah Lomu?
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:46am
Mike said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
“because he’s innocent until proven guilty, but lets not forget you can’t get charged without evidence that would likely ultimately bring a conviction”
Werewolf, I agree with the rest of your post, but I strongly disagree with you on this point. One can easily be charged without evidence that would likely ultimately bring a conviction. It happens far more often than it should, unfortunately, and also from time to time people get convicted on evidence that was hardly obectively compelling. I am not about to bring down the legal system (particularly since I make my living from it!) but we have a principle of “innocent until proven guilty” in this country because decades (if not centuries) of experience have shown that it is a very wise principle to follow.
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:28pm
sittingbison said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
yes, but we also now have a principle of standing people down in the workplace while investigations and certainly prosecutions take place.
June 22nd 2012 @ 2:19pm
Mike said | June 22nd 2012 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
If the alleged infraction relates directly to the job being done, yes. If you stand someone down for something that doesn’t relate directly to their job, you had just better hope they don’t sue you for it.
June 22nd 2012 @ 2:39pm
sittingbison said | June 22nd 2012 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
and theres the rub Mike, I (and many) others choose to believe that being charged with a crime, a violence offense, is directly related to Beales job as being a worthy representative of his country.
June 22nd 2012 @ 2:55pm
Mike said | June 22nd 2012 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
Of course you can find people who “choose to believe it”, just as you can find people who choose to believe that the world is flat.
None of which means that simply being charged with an offence (of violence or anything else) constitutes proof that Beale is unworthy of representing his country. You can spin it any way you like, but “innocent until proven guilty” means just that.
What you may be trying to say (however incoherently) is that an employer can conduct its own investigation which may lead to a stand-down, depending on the circumstances. That is possible – it could even lead to dismissal. But the mere fact that someone has been charged by police is not sufficient.
June 22nd 2012 @ 3:12pm
Jutsie said | June 22nd 2012 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
SB I respect ur opinion I think we just come from different generations, there’s a good article by one of the roar’ers called “Showing Pride in the Wallaby Jersey”. Its a good read and on the money its a balancing act between casting judgement and honouring the traditions of past players that bled for the jersey.
I guess this is the conflict that occurs when a sport is still in the infacy of professionalism.
June 22nd 2012 @ 5:06pm
sittingbison said | June 22nd 2012 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
thanks for pointing out I am incoherent Mike. I’ll try to spell it out in words of one syllable or less so you can understand it.
Kurtley Beale should not be representing our country while he has a criminal prosecution hanging over his head. Nothing to do with judicial process, nothing to do with determining guilt or innocence.
There you go Mike, can you understand it now? Coherant enough for you? And no, this is not the belief of flat earthers or any other crack pot group, it is the belief of a very large proportion of rugby fans.
And Mike, next time try not to be so insulting or condescending. This is an opinion site, my opinion is just as relevant as yours.
June 22nd 2012 @ 5:29pm
Mike said | June 22nd 2012 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
If it is “nothing to do with determining guilt or innocence.” then why should the fact of a criminal prosecution mean that he cannot represent his country? When you look at it that way, your position has everything to do with pre-judging guilt or innocence.
I agree with B-Rock’s post on the thread “showing pride in the Wallaby jersey” – he makes a reasonable case for stand-down that doesn’t involve pre-judging criminal guilt, unlike yours.
Of course your opinion is as valid is mine – who suggested otherwise?
June 22nd 2012 @ 5:45pm
sittingbison said | June 22nd 2012 @ 5:45pm | Report comment
ahhhh…Mike, we have been discussing this aspect on several other threads over the past week or so, prior to him being charged. The position BRock put was also mine, I have not bothered to articulate it fully again as it has been done to death, the only difference now being that he has been charged instead of caught up in an incident (which was the bone of contention previously).
FYI one of the problems articulated before that warranted him being stood down was being out on the sauce at 2am the night before the first Wales test while supposedly on rehab. Success in said test being the rather important for the futures of Deans and several Wallaby incumbent, who did not need that distraction.
To anwser your question “why should the fact of a criminal prosecution mean that he cannot represent his country?”, Mike if you have to ask this question nothing I can say can possibly answer you so I wont bother.
Oh, and I for the life of me cant see how you have misconstrued what I have said as prejudging guilt. You are confused. I have said the judicial process is irrelevant.
June 22nd 2012 @ 5:55pm
Mike said | June 22nd 2012 @ 5:55pm | Report comment
Well, I am sorry if I have misjudged you, or caused any offence.
We could always go out, get drunk and look for some rugby star to start a fight with…
)
June 22nd 2012 @ 7:42pm
Blue Blood said | June 22nd 2012 @ 7:42pm | Report comment
I agree with you whole heartedly. It is a bad look and I prefer to be proud of my Wallabies and support them without the distractions poor decisions have resulted in.
June 22nd 2012 @ 6:11pm
The Werewolf said | June 22nd 2012 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
Let me re-iterate: He is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law but he should be stood down having been arrested and charged with a crime IMHO.
As i said he hasn’t been stood down so he gets my support this weekend.
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:33pm
jeznez said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
WW, I agree that Faingaa hasn’t shown a lot of attacking/passing skill in a Wallaby jumper. It is just that given the injuries he is one of the guys in the mix and I am all for setting very simple acheivable targets and holding people to account.
If Deans going into the second test hadn’t told his centres to work to bring the outside backs into the game then he is failing as a coach. If he did tell them and they delivered what they did last week then there need to be consequences and replacements need to be made.
I’m not convinced AF is the solution but he seems the right choice to me this week. My argument for Harris follows a similar line. With Cooper and Marlon to return the centres probably are on borrowed time, especially if you consider Mitchell, Lealiifano and Tomane are out there as well.
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:37pm
Mike said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
I would like to see Ioane groomed as an outside centre.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:04pm
jeznez said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Mike, he would perpetuate the lack of passing we have now.
A commenter named Dave wrote a very good set of criteria for each of 10, 12 and 13 on Campo’s article this week. He agrees with you that our most damaging runner should be in 13 but that lack of setting up those around you makes me nervous – kind of the anti-Conrad.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:13pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
What is more important though, a 13 that can tackle, a 13 that can run an angle and support, or a 13 that can bust the line or a 13 that can pass? Simply Australia does not have all that in one player say like a Jason Little, Dan Herbert or Stirling Mortlock. So lets play the ‘Moneyball Game’ and find what best fits the team to play Wales this weekend. As critical as I have been of him at times Rob Horne is the choice. However when its All Black time I think we need a more defensive direct 13 like Ant Fianga’a. I think he also under rated in attack. Whilst a poor passer to his left for memory he is strong in the tackle and is hard to put down.
June 22nd 2012 @ 5:05pm
The Werewolf said | June 22nd 2012 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
Faingaa in 6 or 7 matches for the reds had made a total of 0 line breaks had scored 0 tries and had missed tackles in every game that he played. Yet he is a wallaby and there was no criticism.
Horne who’s form in the second half of the super rugby was veru good; scoring tries, making breaks and getting clean sheets in defence (finally because he was a turnstile at the beginning of the season) got nothing but criticism for his selection.
He’s been playing well apart from the whiteline fever in the first match.
June 22nd 2012 @ 5:20pm
formeropenside said | June 22nd 2012 @ 5:20pm | Report comment
Werewolf, I dont think Faingaa has played that many games this year: are you looking at A or S Faingaa?
June 22nd 2012 @ 5:35pm
The Werewolf said | June 22nd 2012 @ 5:35pm | Report comment
Mr FOS, true AF played the last 6 games and had made 19 carries for 95metres.
Horne’s last 6 games in super rugby in comparison he’d carried 24 times for 221metres, (and scored 4 tries).
June 22nd 2012 @ 5:50pm
Jutsie said | June 22nd 2012 @ 5:50pm | Report comment
Bang! Nothing like cold hard facts to prove preconceptions wrong. Good work werewolf.
A finger and mccabe were just as one-dimensional in attack last year, so if we were to make a change I hardly think putting A finger at 13 would be any different.
Others have said he is good at 12 because he is better there. Well im fine with that change for improvement is good, but replacing horne with AF at 13 is either same for same or a step back so I dont support this change.
IMO the only change in the centres I’d support is if we were to revert back to the two playmakers at 10 and 12.
June 23rd 2012 @ 11:33am
Uncle Argyle said | June 23rd 2012 @ 11:33am | Report comment
I think A Fainga’a is the man for SBW. When SBW has played the Red’s for Chiefs or Crusaders I don’t re-call him making such a huge impact, as much as he does at test level that is. I agree that Horne looks better on stat’s, which is important. However SBW will be such an important cog in the All Black attack and like Link McKenzie proved when Red’s sent a good defender onto him and shut down his options around him.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:06pm
B-Rock said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
Digby doesnt have the passing skills – he is a world class winger (top 3 at least?) – why move him?
Also, 13 is the toughest defensive position on the field – its not an easy transition.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:12pm
Justin2 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
Exactly and he will drop more ball under pressure at 13 if he is looking to make crunching runs. His skills are not up to playing at 13 under Test pressure.
One of the best wingers and that is where he should stay.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:20pm
Jutsie said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
To add to that, he may make some bruising tackles but he also misreads the play way too much to be playing the most important defensive position in the back line.
June 22nd 2012 @ 2:22pm
Mike said | June 22nd 2012 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
I am thinking he bears a strong resemblance to Nonu earlier in his career. Nonu also couldn’t (or wouldn’t) pass, if you recall, and he wasn’t the best defender either. He had to be groomed and coached for the position before he turned into arguably the world’s best centre.
Anyway, I am not fixated on the idea. By the same token, McCabe and/or Horne may well increase their skill set.
June 22nd 2012 @ 3:11pm
Justin2 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
Certainly some similarities there Mike.
The one thing Nonu has always had is line breaking ability. For all McCabes positives he doesnt make nearly the same amount of clean busts that Nonu does/did at the same time in their careers.
June 22nd 2012 @ 3:20pm
Jutsie said | June 22nd 2012 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
Is mike talking about mccabe, i thought he was talking bout digby
June 22nd 2012 @ 3:26pm
Mike said | June 22nd 2012 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
I was, but I can see the same thing could be said about McCabe – if the ABs could train Nonu to be a great centre, then you could train either Digby or McCabe to learn the new skills needed to be a good 13.
And if that is so, then I have no answer to B-Rock and Justin’s point that Digby is already a top class winger so why move him.
McCabe and Digby both have plenty of mongrel and that’s essential for a 13.
June 22nd 2012 @ 3:42pm
Justin2 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 3:42pm | Report comment
Ah yes, my apologies had McCabe in my head…
June 22nd 2012 @ 5:09pm
The Werewolf said | June 22nd 2012 @ 5:09pm | Report comment
Let’s not forget that the welsh have the best organised defense from europe and there were limited opportunities.
i think we’d all like to see the ball get to the winger though yes!
June 22nd 2012 @ 3:12am
Shungmao said | June 22nd 2012 @ 3:12am | Report comment
Couldn’t agree more on the Ben Alexander comment, Alexander has been awful and if anything slowed momentum when he comes on with his traditional early penalty, would prefer to see either Palmer or Slipper there. I’ve been a big supporter of Douglas but the boy has missed a golden opportunity to play for his country with poor performances in the last 4 weeks of super rugby. Happy with Simmons as back up as he’s performed solidly in the tests.
As for the backs, happy with the team. I hope Beale plays as part of the team not as an individual. What I like about the beale selection is we now have 2 genuine ball players, I think that has been something we really missed.
Go the Wallabies!
June 22nd 2012 @ 6:50am
Uncle Argyle said | June 22nd 2012 @ 6:50am | Report comment
Dear Colleague,
I am not sure if Kane Douglas is the man to fill the void. Whilst I am happy to give your man Sitaleki Timani another chance and Rob Simmons moved to the becnch what if Sharpey gets injured in the first 10 minutes? Do we call on Douglas who is un-capped to come into a test with a Timani who will be playing his 3rd test. It does leave us pretty weak in that area. While Simmons could have played better he does have far more experience that Douglas and his benching may needle him enough to get some form back.
This also raises the question over Dave Dennis’ ability to run a line out. He may well do that for NSW but this is the Wallabies man, Dennis although a worthy Wallaby 2012 is still an un proven test player and we should not assume he can run a Wallaby lineout in a test which is a step up to level that Dennis is yet to master. Simmons has and does call Wallaby lineouts. However i am all for the 5-2 split.
Mate Beale should not be in the team due to his incident in Vegas. This was a chance for Robbie & JON to set team standards but they have missed the boat. Whilst Vuna deserved to be dropped, Harris did not. This was a good opportunity for Harris to play 12 with McCabe taking Vuna’s wing.
Alexander should be in the crowd eating a pie as should Nic White. Dan Palmer and Ben Lucas or Brendan McKibbon should be there. I like Ant Faing’aa and he is a good bench weapon, however I would be looking to get him a little more game time becuase I think he should be picked to mark SBW in the championship.
Ask Dan Petrie about the time he almost signed a contract with Manly.
June 22nd 2012 @ 7:43am
Justin2 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 7:43am | Report comment
McKibbon? You’ve lost me UA!
June 22nd 2012 @ 8:05am
Uncle Argyle said | June 22nd 2012 @ 8:05am | Report comment
Did I have at hello?
June 22nd 2012 @ 8:53am
Justin2 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 8:53am | Report comment
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:26pm
jeznez said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
UA. Dennis learnt how to run a lineout at University, he has at least a Masters if not a Doctorate in Lineoutology. He’d be fine.
The hypothetical injury to Sharpe would leave us with an all NSW tight 5, deifnitely not ideal with Vicks basically gone, Horwill out for the year and the what if case of Sharpe going – but if your three first choice are out then I think you have to play the cards that have been dealt. I wouldn’t be too concerned at the lack of experience.
No need to ask Peach about that, he’ll tell you at any opportunity.
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:37pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
I don’t share your optimism just yet Jez. We have all seen whats happens in a test when you can’t secure your own 1st phase. Although I am all for education its just theory until put into practice. Dennis may have the paperwork but he still an articled clerk in the terms of the rugby world. He needs to become a Barrister before he can call the shots I would say and he is a few tests short of that experience. Hence we need experience, test experience thats why I would persist with Simmons as back up.
With Vicks & Horwill out – I am leaning more towards Hugh Pyle than Kane Douglas.
…Peach…the Manly Marlin….
June 22nd 2012 @ 7:05pm
PeterK said | June 22nd 2012 @ 7:05pm | Report comment
Agree with that I would like to see Pyle ahead of Dougla (replacing Simmons).
He calls the lineouts for the rebels.
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:36am
rl said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Jez, I have no issue with Dennis running the lineouts, but I do have an issue with him being seen as anything but a backrower. I’m not intending to lay the blame entirely at his feet, but our scrum seemed to go backwards once Dennis packed in at lock (maybe it’s just lack of playing time together?).
As Wolfie suggests above, I’d have no issue with seeing Dennis get a start this week with Higgers off the bench.
Horwill’s injury pretty much assured Simmons of his spot in the squad (not necessarily the run on team) for the balance of this international season. As you say, if Sharpie went down as well and you had another rookie on the bench, we’d be in the deep stuff.
I don’t have an issue at this point with Deans letting McCabe and Horne have another go. If indeed they are his preferred option for this years Rugby Championship, then I’m happy to get behind him. It’s not like Deans has a wealth of (credible) talent knocking the door down. And yes, I get it that there are a number of possible (POWERFUL!) players who might yet become great centres, but they have next to no time in the position at S15 level, and if they were recklessly thrown into a test and got torched I think it would be a massive setback to them.
Anyway, having decided that McCabe and Horne are the centres combo (at least for now) then by all means let them continue to develop a combination and grow in confidence. I still believe there’s a good player in Horne, and we are starting to see some flashes. Maybe with less on the line this weekend, they might even try a pass or two!
June 22nd 2012 @ 9:47am
Jutsie said | June 22nd 2012 @ 9:47am | Report comment
Agree with RL regarding the centre combo. It takes time to know each others game and I’ve seen at super 15 level that both are capable of attacking rugby. We need to stop chopping and changing the centre pairing, it’s been a running joke during the dean’s tenure.
I think more than passing they need to start running some more creative angles as opposed to straight hit ups. That is as much the fault of genia/barnes as it is the two centres.
Bringing in harris or faingaa wont change the main issue as all four are similar sorts of players. I’d only change the combo if we went back to a 2nd playmaker role and put a JOC/Barnes/Leiliafanno at 12.
And finally I really think mccabe has earned his spot in the wallaby team either at 12 or on the bench. He has done all that has been asked of him and I wish all our forwards had his passion, determination, stubbornness and aggression.
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:14am
Red Kev said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:14am | Report comment
I personally like the idea of Barnes and Lealiifano and 10 and 12 (in whichever order suits) with Tapuai at 13 – he can pass and more importantly can offload in contact. But with 2 of those three injured (and Lealiifano not back until the Spring tour) I have no issue with McCabe-Horne as a centres combination. I think Faingaa is as good as Horne at the moment but that Horne has more potential to be a genuine threat.
I am also of the genuine belief that the best Wallaby bench is a 5-2 split with AAC (11, 12, 13, 14, 15) sitting next to Lucas (9, 10, 15) and covering every backline position between them.
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:18am
Jutsie said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:18am | Report comment
big tapuai fan too. Your other points are on the money too, faiingaa/horne/mccabe are similar players but horne has the biggest upside. Also to the naked faiingaa seems a yard slower than the other two.
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:44am
rl said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Naked Faiinga is slower? Very homoerotic opposed sessions by the sound of it. I’m a bit worried about the scrum sessions!
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:46am
justsaying said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Naked and slow is an unfortunate combination indeed!
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:55am
Jutsie said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:55am | Report comment
haha should of edited “to the naked eye Faiinga is slower”
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:16pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Did someone drop the nude bomb?
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:57am
rl said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:57am | Report comment
Kev, I’m not such a fan of a 5-2, but I can be persuaded if you have backs with that all-round ability on the bench (throw in Lucas’ goal kicking for good measure).
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:04pm
Markus said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
While injuries to Tapuai and Lealifano persist, and the ‘power players’ remain inexperienced, I think it would be worth revisiting the McCabe/Faingaa centre combination again, but with the two given a bit more room to interchange roles where needed.
Faingaa was always a 12 (and even 10 at club level) before McKenzie moved him to 13, so he could provide better 2nd receiver assistance to Barnes, while McCabe is the more powerful runner so could benefit from standing wider on attack.
Both would retain their usual positions when in defence, as that part of their combination has never been in question.
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:57pm
Justin2 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Markus – I had heard AF had played a lot at 10 growing up. Can you shed any light? His attacking/passing gamne is not given any credit by most on here. As you say he is really a 12 but Link moved him to get the best players all on the field.
I have seen some excellent passing from him so to my mind there is no directive from the coaches to let the ball “sing” right now…
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:09pm
Markus said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
He played 10 and 12 through school, was primarily a 12 while in the Brumbies Academy then senior squad, but still played a decent amount of 10 for the Tuggeranong and Canberra Vikings.
I don’t believe he’d really played any 13 before McKenzie moved him there.
As I recall it was only ever meant to be a stopgap measure while Will Chambers returned from injury and a form slump, but the Reds never really seemed to have been targetting a specialist 13 recruit, until this season with some of the talented rookies coming through.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:11pm
Jutsie said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
similar issue to the wallabies, abundance of options at 12 but not many at 13.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:18pm
Justin2 said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Thanks Markus that type of back ground doesn’t surprise me at all…
June 22nd 2012 @ 6:40pm
The Werewolf said | June 22nd 2012 @ 6:40pm | Report comment
Kev I like the 5-2 split but only if your starting backs are able to play a number of positions if necessary. Last week we needed 3 backs on the bench because we did not have a plan b at fly half. Beale comes back in and now we no longer need the extra reserve back.
I don’t like the idea that we have a jack of all trade master of none in Lucas on the bench. And AAC is one of our few world class outside backs and you want to put him on the bench because that would fit nicely? He is too good to be wasted on the bench.
Ideally AAC would be at 13 and Horne would be on the bench when we get Tomane or Mitchell back.
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:49am
rl said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:49am | Report comment
I thoroughly concur with your last paragraph. You can have all the power you like, but without desire… well you’re just a big pussy. (that one’s for you Timani – fire up!)
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:00am
Mike said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Agree
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:00am
Jutsie said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Yeah thats why I’m glad TPN is back and fit (touch wood) he always leaves everything on the park (sometimes too much).
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:28pm
redsnut said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
Especially “not straight” line outs.
June 22nd 2012 @ 7:09pm
PeterK said | June 22nd 2012 @ 7:09pm | Report comment
he didnt have 1 in the last wales game.
Percentage wise Moore has about the same number of not straights
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:04am
peterlala said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:04am | Report comment
Jeznez, good story.
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:42am
Mike said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:42am | Report comment
Good points Jez. I think Sharpe and Sitaleki Timani are the correct choices for lock, but Simmons must surely be looking over his shoulder. Moving him to the bench is a good start – if he can’t provide impact off the bench in this match then…
“Pat McCabe and Rob Horne are not passing the ball and doing nothing to bring their wingers into the game.”
There is some truth to this, but Barnes also bears responsibility. Not that I am knocking the man – Barnsie has done his country proud and seeks to improve his game. But I don’t think he is a natural test No 10. I hope that when O’Connor returns he will evolve into the top-class 10 that we need, and BB can shift to 12 where I think he is more comfortable and more effective.
“Putting Harris in 12 and Faingaa in 13 was a very viable option for this test.”
Viable, yes, but I don’t know that it would be so obviously superior to McCabe/Horne as to compel a change? Both of the latter seem to have more ability to take and give hits than Faingaa, and Harris is virtually untried at test level.
“However, I wonder if the complaints that Deans failed to take a back up number 7 to the Rugby World Cup are now leading to him selecting an extra one in his match day 22.”
I feel it is more likely that Deans is happier blooding a new player now that the rest of the backrow is firing. We finally have a settled (and fit) No 6 in Higgenbotham and No 8 in Palu. Plus as Werewolf points out, Dave Dennis is also quite good.
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:46pm
jeznez said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
The compulsion is not that the replacements demand their spots but that the incumbents are failing so badly. Horne did not pass the ball once on Saturday and McCabe apparently only passed three times (I was surpised this stat was that high and re-watched the game and noted two passes in review, in one McCabe arrived at a breakdown got popped the ball and laid it off, the other was one of Hooper’s dropped balls. I can only assume the third was in the warm up).
When the forwards are showing a greater ability to move the ball than the centres something is wrong. If something is wrong then a change needs to be made. Given some of the cattle we expect to return by the RC Deans can probably sidestep the issue but ultimately I’d like him to make the players accountable and replace under-performers.
June 22nd 2012 @ 11:49am
SkinnyKid said | June 22nd 2012 @ 11:49am | Report comment
JezNez you old dog! Drinker, lady killer and now Author!
You’re 100% right. Alexander is out of sorts. But mainly because the Wallabies and Brumbies dont see him in the same light. He plays and trains most of the time at loose head for the ACT boys and its the opposite for the Wallabies. This is much harder than it sounds to the laymen…..
Remember that season about 5 years ago were he was clearly one of the best tight heads in the game even at test level. Nobody could move him and he covered the park almost like a loosie.
Anyway, someone who is not getting enough credit right now is Kepu. Coupe of scrum creaks here and there but around the park he’s clearly the best TH in the game right now.
Jez, you at the club watch in the wales game this week? was a decent crowd there last time.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:11pm
jeznez said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
2009 when Deans finally bit the bullet and pulled Baxter. Alexander replaced him and didn’t have a great Tri-Nations but had a sensational northern tour at TH. Unfortunately Bill Young didn’t notice and persists with putting him at LH.
Probably at Boomers on Saturday. You missed Mcardle’s farewell last night, left the lads talking to some lads at Romeos at some obscene hour this morning!
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:15pm
Jutsie said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Is the 2009 northern tour the one where our scrum was actually half decent? Unlucky in 2010 with robinson/TPN/Moore/alexander all out at the start of the test season so no continuity.
Had to blood s finger, mafuu, slipper, weekes, daley and edmonds.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:47pm
Markus said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
I think Bill Young just had a better view of the bigger picture than Alexander did.
Alexander said in the past he prefers TH, and he did have a good northern tour that year as you say, but he was never the best TH at the Brumbies. Ma’afu, for all the criticisms of the rest of his game, was a better TH scrummager than Alexander, as is Palmer.
And even in the times where Alexander has performed admirably at TH, it always severely impacted the rest of his game. Compared to his very high workrate when starting at LH, whenever he was regularly playing at TH for the Wallabies he looked tired. Really tired.
June 22nd 2012 @ 7:12pm
PeterK said | June 22nd 2012 @ 7:12pm | Report comment
Alexander has had a low workrate this season, despite starting at LHP.
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:12pm
jeznez said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
ps. Matty – note the jumper in my photo, we may never see their like again!
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:25pm
SkinnyKid said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
I bet some taxi driver in HK will be selling them at the 7′s next year….that or they are already on ebay.
Was out with the Aussie Rules blokes last night who I am sure would have been at Romeos last night too…..
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:28pm
SkinnyKid said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
I didnt make it to Orchard Towers. Turns out pregnant wives can smell the towers stench at 50feet.
June 22nd 2012 @ 3:09pm
jeznez said | June 22nd 2012 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
lucky it was just me and a few of the other single blokes then!
I actually think Alexander is correct and Young wrong and his best position is TH. Yes he gets around the park well at LH but his scrummaging is so poor over the last couple of years that I can’t respect him for it.
Agree that he has never been the best TH at the Brumbies but if he can re-find that 2009 form he is definitely in the best five (if not best three) TH’s in the country. Surely one of the Super Sides would take him as a first choice TH? The Brumbies have Murphy coming through strongly so wouldn’t be left short at LH.
June 22nd 2012 @ 4:39pm
Markus said | June 22nd 2012 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
It’s one of those tough personal calls. From a personal standpoint he is better at TH, and at his best could be in the top 3 Aus THs, but from a team POV (Brumbies and Wallabies) he was the still the second best LH behind Robinson, and ahead of Henderson, Daley and Cowan.
I’d still put him in front of all of them, but behind a resurgent Greg Holmes.
I do like the looks of Murphy at present, as well as youngster Scott Sio, who absolutely destroyed Rodney Blake in the scrums in his first real opportunity at that level.
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:04pm
SkinnyKid said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:04pm | Report comment
I could move Rodney Blake….and that’s saying somethng.
The blokes been owned at every level and region of the game.
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:31pm
Johnno said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:31pm | Report comment
skinny kid are you sure rodzilla big rodzilla was owned in french top 14 skinny.
June 23rd 2012 @ 3:08am
jeznez said | June 23rd 2012 @ 3:08am | Report comment
SK, stick me behind you and it would look like he was on roller skates!
June 22nd 2012 @ 12:31pm
Brett McKay said | June 22nd 2012 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
Good stuff Jez – I’ve got similar concerns with how Hooper AND Dennis work on from the bench, given that Higginbotham has been switching to no.8 when Palu goes off, too.
Also, Genia (like Barnes) has played 240 minutes in the last two weeks, and I’d hve thought that Nic White would’ve had a chance to get his jumper dirty by now. Be interesting to see if, or for how long he stays on the pine tomorrow afternoon..
June 22nd 2012 @ 1:26pm
SkinnyKid said | June 22nd 2012 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
Brett, I get the feeling that there will be a lot of blokes having a Chris Whittaker type career behind Genia.
June 22nd 2012 @ 2:47pm
sittingbison said | June 22nd 2012 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
thats the sad thing skinny, because his early season form was so woeful he should not have been selected, and two of the three tests he should have been hooked.
I think its hilarious that after losing to Scotland, being at 20-19 (after blowing a 13 point lead) with a double overlap try butchered the Welsh and then Genia kicking out on the full (except for a fingernail touch), and an after the siren win after the Welsh inexplicably kicked us the ball with a minute to play, all seems to be well with the players, the selections, and the coach.
June 23rd 2012 @ 11:31am
SkinnyKid said | June 23rd 2012 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Mate I guess it hard when you half back is also a strike weapon. How often do you see WG making breaks that change a game when the opposition are getting tired? it pretty regular. Would be hard to take a bloke off when ‘the break’ is in the back of your mind.
Also something that people have been incorrectly talk about was the Wills ‘over use of the blind or him having a snipe’ against Wales in test 2. Here’s the thing, he was test and test the fringe which over time gave us space in the 3rd and 4th channel. This allowed him to release Barnes and Co into space with one of his bullet passes.
I dont want to blow too much smoke up his ass but I dont thing I have see a scrum half that is also such an attacking weapon.
Fiji had a bloke a few years back who was amazing but I cant remember his name. Played for them at the 2007 RWC. For mine he was the play of the comp.
June 23rd 2012 @ 11:33am
SkinnyKid said | June 23rd 2012 @ 11:33am | Report comment
jesus I should have proof read that….but you get the idea.
June 22nd 2012 @ 5:24pm
mikeylives said | June 22nd 2012 @ 5:24pm | Report comment
Alexander got toasted on Sat. Perhaps (like Vuna), it takes 2 absolute shockers for Deans to click.
I don’t know what our long-term second row option is, but unless Simmons starts to get some go-forward mongrel, he is not it.
I rate Hooper very highly and he has to be in the team somewhere. He is very quick and has surprising leg drive for his size – These attributes can cause damage in the last 20 and boost morale for the rest of the team.
The Finger is underrated. He provides a similar boost to the team from his enthusiasm in the last 20. He hit so many holes for the Reds last year and has the ability to dominate tackles and actually hurt people. Unfortunately for him, Horne is a similar type of player and Dingo has a man-crush on him.
“Shifting to the wide speedsters” is not the same as it used to be. Heaping criticism on Horne, McCabe (and Barnes???) is unfair IMO as professional-era rushing defences, player isolation (remember when backs didn’t contest the ball?) and intercept risks have changed the benefits of shifting it wide.
Quick wide ball definitely has a place in counter-attack or when the opposition is under the pump near the line and the wide defenders are pushed in towards the ruck fringes, but in the same way that Cullen and Burke re-defined the fullback’s role, Ioane is a model for the way a modern wing should play – ie injecting himself randomly in the line to create a half or clean break.
However, roving winger can be dangerous if there is turnover counter attack, as he is out of position or out of puff to defend – see Cuthbert outpacing Digby after he had run across from the other wing to his own on a turnover. So good communication between the back 3 is important.
June 22nd 2012 @ 6:00pm
Jutsie said | June 22nd 2012 @ 6:00pm | Report comment
I think sometimes deans is too nice a bloke. He takes ages to drop blokes, mumm, baxter etc were all given umpteen chances.
Even giteau was given as many chances as possible.
June 22nd 2012 @ 10:02pm
SkinnyKid said | June 22nd 2012 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
to be fair the coaches before him were just as bad if not worse at dropping people.
How long was GG’s stretch of poor form? 2 -3 years?
How long were dunning and waugh given at test level after never being good enough for their slots.