Wallabies and Wales closer than clean sweep suggests
By Brett McKay, 26 Jun 2012 Brett McKay is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- David Pocock, Leigh Halfpenny, Mike Harris, Rugby Union, Wales rugby, wallabies
Wallaby glory against Wales came with an All Black twist (AAP Image/Joe Castro)
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The series is done, the silverware has been held aloft, and the records show the Wallabies clinched the June series against Wales with a three-zip clean sweep.
However, like plenty of records, the overall result really doesn’t paint the true picture.
It’s true that the Wallabies won three keenly fought internationals from three. At different points, Wales would’ve been favoured to win all three themselves. In Melbourne, and again in Sydney, the Wallabies only kicked themselves ahead with late penalties.
Brisbane was decided by eight points. Melbourne by two. Sydney by just one. That’s a three-Test clean sweep with just eleven points between the two sides.
In fact, if you go back to the 2011 Rugby World Cup third place playoff, there’s only 20 points difference across the last five meetings. Yet Wales are 0 and 5. It hardly seems fair, but I suppose that’s international rugby. It’s why teams are so desperate to pit themselves against the best in the world.
Wales played well enough to win the second Test, only to see Mike Harris’ late penalty sail between the posts. Leigh Halfpenny hit the uprights in Sydney from halfway, having not missed before in the series, and they lost by just one point. He’d slotted 15 previous international shots at goal, going all the way back to the Six Nations.
If that shot of Halfpenny’s had struck the post even just an inch more to the inside, it could’ve deflected through for the goal. And who knows how the match might’ve played out after that. I’m sure similar “what if” moments exist in both previous Tests, too.
I mention this only to highlight just how close the fortunes of the two sides are.
Already, it appears that a burgeoning rivalry is building between the sides, but then that was always on the cards with five meetings coming in the space of nine months. Another clash waits at the end of the year.
What I’ve noticed from these recent clashes and this June series is just how similar the two teams appear.
Overall, both teams run onto the ground with a real intent to play quality rugby, but often those intentions are derailed by finding ways of tangling themselves in the moment. This often leads to poor options being taken or unforced errors presenting, all from players who have much more talent than they’re showing at that point.
Both teams are capable of naming what looks to be an excellent side on paper, only for that side to produce a sub-standard performance when expectations are at their highest. Respective supporters must tire of “what if” moments like those I’ve mentioned above, just from this series. And let’s not even go down the irritating path of gallant losses.
The Welsh tight five can rightly lay claim to having the measure of their Australian counterparts come scrum time. Indeed, the Wallabies seem as unsure as ever of just who their best tight five is. The Wallabies have their moments of solid scrummaging, but forget week-to-week, often it’s a scrum-to-scrum proposition.
The Wallabies might hold a slight advantage in the lineout, but both teams found ways in this series of disrupting each other’s throw. Both sets of hookers vary their throwing with the directional consistency of my 1-wood.
Both sides comprise tough, mobile backrows led by opensides playing with maturity beyond their years. On their day, both units can be right up there among the very best in world rugby, or they can be quiet and uncohesive. While David Pocock and Sam Warburton were excellent in this series, their number six and eight colleagues lacked impact at times.
Wycliff Palu improved as the Tests went on, but I was very surprised at the sporadic performances from Scott Higginbotham and Dan Lydiate, considering the respective Super Rugby and Six Nations form they carried into this series.
‘Mercurial’ is possibly a harsh description for both sets of halves, but it was the first word to pop up and these instincts are often accurate. Mike Phillips was arguably the best no.9 of last year’s Rugby World Cup, yet we had to wait until Sydney to see anything resembling his best form.
Will Genia was very good for most of the series, but is still prone to falling back to that aimless, telegraphed-beyond-comprehension box kick.
Berrick Barnes was as surprisingly composed with his game management as Rhys Priestland’s appeared surprisingly off.
The two sides’ centre pairings are pretty much interchangeable, and the injured Jamie Roberts fits this equation, too. Both sides run a hard running inside centre with a limited distribution game and excellent defence, and an outside centre who’s essentially the same, but with no distribution game at all.
The two ‘back three’ units comprise imposing wingers who go searching for the ball, and a match-winning fullback, albeit by different methods.
You could nearly interchange players between the two sides randomly and get similar results. And when you think about that, suddenly that 20-point differential across the last five outings isn’t so surprising. Five-nil is still, but less than one try per game difference indicates two very closely matched teams.
It will be very interesting to follow the fortunes of both teams over the next couple of years. Neither will be facing a large turnover of players in that time, and by the next Rugby World Cup, the intense rivalry could be something very special.
The Wallabies have found a way to win a series that they’ve definitely not dominated, which in itself, is a pleasant change from what we’ve seen in the past. There’s good reason to be impressed, but still plenty of room to acknowledge evident deficiencies. This bodes well for the Rugby Championship, certainly, but let’s not fall into the all-too-regular trap of pre-tallying poultry.
Wales will be annoyed to be heading home with nothing to show from this series, but they have far from disgraced themselves in Australia. They will break their winning drought down here before too long.
The teams are way too close for them not to.
Brett McKay is a former non-tackling scrumhalf and not-quite-1st Grade middle order stalwart. A rugby and cricket expert for The Roar since July 2009 (having joined in Sept 2008), Brett has written for Inside Rugby and Cricket Australia, and is also PLAY Canberra's rugby correspondent. He tweets from @BMcSport
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- David Pocock, Leigh Halfpenny, Mike Harris, Rugby Union, Wales rugby, wallabies

June 26th 2012 @ 1:22am
murph73 said | June 26th 2012 @ 1:22am | Report comment
Agreed. Eleven points separating the two sides is hidden by the 3-0 series win. Unfortunately this will enable the usual suspects to hide behind a covenient stat when they get their backsides handed to them on a plate by the ABs
June 26th 2012 @ 4:10am
The Werewolf said | June 26th 2012 @ 4:10am | Report comment
Two evenly matched sides you’d expect close games i’d have thought.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:17am
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:17am | Report comment
so Murph, we can pencil you into the “but you only won those three Tests by 11pts” camp??
June 26th 2012 @ 6:35pm
murph73 said | June 26th 2012 @ 6:35pm | Report comment
I’m a Wallabies fan, Brett. However, I don’t think that the team that’s been picked is remotely near the best side we can put on the paddock and I don’t think that the tactics used by the Wallabies have been all that great. I’d suggest that the wins can be out down to individual brilliance on behalf of Pocock and Genia, more than a solid team effort.
June 26th 2012 @ 6:43pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 6:43pm | Report comment
Who do you think should have been picked, Murph?
June 27th 2012 @ 1:42am
murph73 said | June 27th 2012 @ 1:42am | Report comment
With the current injury list?
Robinson
Moore
Kepu/Palmer
Sharpe
Simmons/Pyle
Higginbotham
Pocock
Palu
Genia
Beale
Ioane
Barnes
Ashley-Cooper
Shipperly/Cummins
Morahan
Polota-Nau/Hanson
Slipper/Holmes
Pyle/Simmons
Dennis/Mowen/Hooper
White/Lucas
Harris/Lucas
A Smith/Cummins/A Faingaa
Ideally if there were no injuries?
Robinson
Moore
Kepu/Palmer
Sharpe
Horwill
Higginbotham
Pocock
Palu
Genia
Cooper/O’Connor
Ioane
Barnes
O’Connor/Ashley-Cooper
Mitchell
Beale
Polota-Nau/Hanson
Slipper/Holmes
Simmons
Dennis/Mowen/Hooper
White/Lucas
Ashley-Cooper
Morahan/A Faingaa
The current clear favouritism for Waratah players is a complete joke and will be to the ultimate detriment of the side. The inability (or unwillingness) of either centre to pass the ball will simply not work against the ABs (and likely not the Bokke either). The 3-0 “whitewash” of Wales will be a short lived Pyrrhic victory, closely followed by a total annihilation at the hands of the ABs. We are going to get pumped.
June 27th 2012 @ 1:14pm
Mike said | June 27th 2012 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Murph, thanks, I could live with both of those lineups. But you will find fellow Roarers who would howl you down.
When you say “The current clear favouritism for Waratah players”, you clearly don’t have a problem with the Tah’s front row, being happy with each of them either starting or on the bench (like you, I think Moore is the better all-round hooker, but many would disagree). If I follow you correctly, your “Waratah” issue really is with S. Timani at lock and Horne at 13. You are also unhappy with McCabe at 12 (who of course is not a Tah).
I don’t have a thought on any of the new locks one way or another. I am happy for Timani to try his hand but it wouldn’t worry me if it was Pyle instead. In my view, until they have played more games alongside old hands like Sharpe and Horwill, we can’t be sure.
But you will find plenty of Roarers who see it opposite to you, who think Timani is the only hope, Simmons is overrated etc. You each think Deans has made a mistake, just for opposite reasons!
Like you, I would definitely go for Horwill and Sharpe if they were available, as the starters, and one of the young hopefuls can learn by coming off bench behind them.
Re the centres, yes, I tend to agree. I also prefer Barnes, O’Connor and/or AAC in the centres and I think we should start with them. But again, you will find Roarers who are very opposed to this and who strongly advocate that McCabe and Horne are the best pairing for Australia going forward.
June 29th 2012 @ 12:14am
murph said | June 29th 2012 @ 12:14am | Report comment
Mike
Correct re: the front row. I’m able to recignise that NSW has a decent front row and I’m happy for these players to be picked on form.
What really gets me is the clear bias. Timani has no right in that team ahead of Simmons or Pyle. Horne has zero right to be in the side ahead of pretty much any recognised centre in Australia, yet they are there. This simply doesn’t happen with non-NSW players.
I’m half expecting Ioane to be dropped when Mitchell returns.
June 26th 2012 @ 1:35am
Ben S said | June 26th 2012 @ 1:35am | Report comment
Good read, Brett.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:19am
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Cheers Ben, great to hear from you as always..
June 26th 2012 @ 2:11am
Johnno said | June 26th 2012 @ 2:11am | Report comment
-The Welsh were impressive. But I think Toby Faletaus injury, and we didn’t see the best of him was a big loss.
Jamie Roberts loss hurt them a lot, he is class, as is gaavin hensons absence he was ready to go the world cup last year and was injured, he is a class player who still may be back and a lions bolter.
But Jamie Roberts was a massive massive loss. He gives them so much momentum over the advantage line.
-And losing George North in the 1st test at a crucial stage hurt them.
-And the other uncomfortable headache for Wales is this, i i liken it to Berrick Barnes and Quade cooper at the world cup last year.
-The reality is I think Justin Tipuric there 22 yr old soon to be fetcher NO 7, is better than there captain Sam Warburton.
-So a case of what do we do here with that 1. A bit like John Smit and Bismark Du Plessis at the last world cup.
Bismark is clearly better, but John Smit captaincy is good as is Warburton so what to do.
-vs the lions they put John Smit to prop and Bismark started but the scrum fell away, and they put Bismarc to the bench for the world cup.
-So maybe Wales will have to drop Warburton now while he is young to the bench, put in Gethin jerkins to captian or mike phillips, and play Tipuric at no 7 or start both.
-Tipuric is a quality player he was great in european rugby this year, and was very good when he came off the bench in Syndey.
-And Gareth Delve well that man really should of played the last 2 tests I rate Delve higher than Palu such a class player is Melbourne rebels no 8 Delve.
June 26th 2012 @ 4:23am
King of the Gorgonites said | June 26th 2012 @ 4:23am | Report comment
Agree about delve. I was shocked he didn’t get a run.
June 26th 2012 @ 4:36am
The Werewolf said | June 26th 2012 @ 4:36am | Report comment
Ryan Jones has been arguably the best player in Wales this season so got to disagree Delve was a better option. Delve goes okay but there is a reason he’s their 3rd or 4th choice no 8 behind Faletau, Jones, and probably Powell as well, it’s because they are better players.
Jones and Tipuric formed an immense backrow for the Ospreys which won them the Pro 12 final against leinster. Warburton and a fit Faletau are really struggling to stay Wales’ no1′s in their positions.
June 26th 2012 @ 6:18am
Justin2 said | June 26th 2012 @ 6:18am | Report comment
Delve should have been on the bench at least to cover 8 and 6, his form in Melbourne has been outstanding.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:15pm
IronAwe said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:15pm | Report comment
I agree that Delve is great, love watching him for the Rebels, but Ryan Jones is awesome.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:28am
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Johnno, I’m not sure how much they missed any of those guys, to be honest. Falatau had been a bit quiet too, before picking up his injury in Brisbane, and as Werewolf points out, Ryan Jones is no slouch at no.8.
They may have missed Jamie Roberts’ presence, perhaps, but young Ashley Beck plays fairly similarly, maybe even with a bit more creativity that Roberts. And they won a Six Nations and a Grand Slam without Gavin Henson, so he certainly hasn’t been missed.
I do take your point about Tupuric, but I wouldn’t be dropping Sam Warburton yet, not for a long shot. By the same logic, and in the same situation, you wouldn’t seriously be suggesting Pocock be dropped for Hooper now, would you? (Would you?!?
)
And I thought Delve might have landed a bench spot, but I guess it’s a case of his being a bit out of sight, out of mind. Wales would’ve known he was playing well, but he’d have virtually no combination with anyone around him, having been in Australia for two years. The safer option for Wales was always going to be to go with what they knew..
June 26th 2012 @ 8:40am
ilikedahoodoogurusnigha said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
“all-too-regular trap of pre-tallying poultry.”
Nice one Brett
I actually said to my wife when we played Wales during the World Cup, that IF, and it is a big if, both sides continue to improve to their potential, that they may be meeting each other in the 2015 final at Twickers….
June 26th 2012 @ 8:54am
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:54am | Report comment
Guru, I’ve had similar thoughts, though in reality it’s still an optomistic guess this far out..
June 26th 2012 @ 9:41am
rl said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
VERY optimistic. The ABs and Saffa ain’t going backwards.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:48am
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:48am | Report comment
of course they’re not RL, that’s why I sad it was a guess…
June 26th 2012 @ 11:00am
rl said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
I was agreeing with you!
June 26th 2012 @ 3:35pm
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:35pm | Report comment
damn emotion-less text!!
June 26th 2012 @ 10:17pm
IronAwe said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:17pm | Report comment
I would have LOVED a Wales – Wallabies final. Would also have loved a Wales – NZ final…..Or a Wallabis – NZ final…
June 26th 2012 @ 8:44am
Nik said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:44am | Report comment
Good read.
The Dragons should be filthy at themselves for this string of losses (seven against Australia if you go even further back). Faletau and Roberts were certainly big losses but I wonder if the biggest loss on this occasion wasn’t Warren Gatland? Howley didn’t appear up to it to me even with (maybe especially with) Gats riding shotgun towards the end.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:26am
Justin2 said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:26am | Report comment
I found it odd to say the least that Gatland was back with the squad in Melbourne yet Howley still seemed to be No.1.
Quite bizarre …
June 26th 2012 @ 10:31am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:31am | Report comment
Justin2 assume it was not to undermine Howley who had been said to be coach for the series.
OR Gatland could have his cake and eat it by actually coaching the team so taking credit if they won (revealing he did so), and escape blame for the losses which would then fall on Howley. In fact is that why he never came on this tour?
June 26th 2012 @ 12:51pm
Justin2 said | June 26th 2012 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
KPM he was in the box in Melbourne (I am pretty sure) and Sydney that is why I find it so odd.
June 26th 2012 @ 12:58pm
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
He definitely was. He wanted to have his cake and eat it and now he can blame his losses on Howley.
June 26th 2012 @ 7:01pm
Ben S said | June 26th 2012 @ 7:01pm | Report comment
Gatland can blame the losses on Howley?
June 26th 2012 @ 8:47am
moaman said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Brett–Maybe Australia and Wales can build a legendary rival like the one between NZ and RSA!
I see the IRB have dropped Wales 2 places down to 6th whilst Australia close the gap considerably on no.1 on the strength of that series win.Oddly NZ tread water whilst Ireland move UP too on the back of their resounding success Down Under.England now enjoy no.4 spot and looking..er..ominous.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:22am
moaman said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:22am | Report comment
*rivalry
June 26th 2012 @ 9:31am
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:31am | Report comment
it’s the sweet science of IRB rankings, Moa. Though I made the point that other day that only 7 pts separate 4th and 14th, or something like that…
June 26th 2012 @ 4:35pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
Good point, Moaman. Its not right.
There should be a higher place for NZ in the rankings since they are so much better than everyone else. It is unfair that they should be merely first, when other teams can be right next to them at second, third etc (especially when the team coming second is those guys who lose to Samoa each week). Therefore, be it now decreed:
Instead of being Number One, New Zealand shall now be “Number Zero”.
And, instead of being “First” in the rankings, New Zealand shall now be “Nothingth”.
June 26th 2012 @ 7:11pm
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 7:11pm | Report comment
Mike, what happens if they keep improving? Do they then get ranked “Minus-oneth”??
June 26th 2012 @ 9:00am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:00am | Report comment
Firstly I enjoyed this article and agree with much of the analysis and comparison of teams: so similar do they appear in some areas that you wonder if they weren’t selected to stop like with like or that Deans and Gatland being New Zealanders develop similar kinds of team.
In general I agree that this series was reasonably close. In some other ways I disagree and I hope that is permitted and not outrageous. I don’t think the series was as close as it seemed. In the nearest match at the end, the second test, Berrick Barnes missed a straightforward penalty because of an injury. Hooper dropped the ball right next to the line, and again while counter-attacking (though obviously that was less certainly leading to a score). That’s a lot of luck for Wales and eventually their luck ran out. In the third test it was tight, but the Wallabies had very little motivation given the dead rubber status and the exhaustion of playing not three but four tests in three weeks.
So I don’t think the sides are very close, but the bigger reason is this. Australia essentially won without their backline. The Australian backline revolves around Cooper, Beale, JOC and Ioane and only the last was fit. These four have given Australia most of its big victories in recent years and in my opinion just one more let alone all three would have allowed Australia to win comfortably. (Just think of the other injured backs: Tomane, Leiifano, Mitchell, Turner). Wales were at virtually full strength in contrast.
The Wallabies have won 5 matches against Wales over the past year, none of them with their lynchpin 10, Cooper, in different situations, physically as well as psychologically, they have done it with a mass of injuries, after playing another international earlier in the week and so forth. They are really well ahead.
Nor did I think Palu only improved: I found him superb from the start.
I think a full or nearly full strength Australia would very easily beat this Welsh team again and again.
Perhaps the problem Wales have with Australia is that they are similar but worse (aside from the scrum). Look at the backrows: powerful Tongan 8, skilled 6 (in theory), large fetcher at 7. A team Australia would have more problems would be might be worse in some areas but better or at least different in others.
So in the end I agree that the series was reasonably close but not that much nor do I think Wales could easily have won. More importantly though, I believe Australia have mostly played Wales over the past year wracked with enormous numbers of backline injuries and that when most of these players return the Wallabies should reliably win with ease.
I hope the disagreement I have shown isn’t thought to be wrong or indecent.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:28am
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:28am | Report comment
KPM, some great comments here, and no issues with any them (what are you worried about!) But I’ll have to come back to them a bit later, to give them the proper consideration they deserve..
June 26th 2012 @ 10:15am
rl said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:15am | Report comment
KPM, you’re very harsh on Hooper with that second dropped ball. You’re reminding me of Lordy on Campo/Greg Martin – that error was due a fundamentally bad pass from McCabe to Hooper. Perhaps a freak like Beale, JOC or QC may have caught it, but a bit rough on Hooper.
I’m not sure if I sit with you or Brett on the “non-scorebaord” closeness of the series. On the one hand, it’s good to see the Wallabies have learnt how to win the close ones. But if you take your view (that Australia was really in control all the way) then it worries me that we weren’t able to finish them off, regardless of our injuries (they had some key injuries too).
I agree with you re Palu – but it’s also got me worried about the lack of a viable replacement for him. No-one in S15 looks like taking his jersey off him, especially not Higgers. And Cliffy’s 33 at the next RWC, assuming his injuries don’t get the better of him.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:37am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:37am | Report comment
rl I didn’t mean to be harsh on Hooper: it was more to point out Wales being lucky. It’s such early days in international rugby for Hooper that he can hardly be blamed anyway in my opinion.
rl I think it is forgotten how extensive the injuries were to Australia and how little they have below the top tier. It’s not like New Zealand where several great players go down and other equally great players replace them. Below the top in Australia is a chasm. But think there was no Cooper, Beale, JOC, Mitchell, Turner amongst players who have played, or Leiifano, Tomane amongst talented ones who haven’t. That’s basically removes all real firepower except Ioane.
The hope with Palu is that he will retain his effectiveness in the way that some very powerful players do. Power seems to age better than speed strangely. Look at Petero Civonceva in league or Brad Thorn. I sometimes contemplating writing an article on why different types of players age at different stages but never get round to it.
As for backup for Palu, the only candidate I can see is Lopeti Timani who has the advantage for the moment in covering 6, 8 and lock. As he’s virtually as good as his brother I think he should be involved anyway now.
June 26th 2012 @ 11:20am
rl said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:20am | Report comment
KPM – I’m not as pessimistic as you about our depth. Sure, there’s a lot of depth in NZ rugby, but if for example you take 3 or 4 of their genuine options at no.10 out of the picture (as we have this year), then I’m not so sure they are THAT great (promising, yes, but not great). I reckon we’ve got plenty of potential contenders for a good 10 & 12 combo (because I believe Australia has always played it’s best and most dangerous rugby with a first AND second 5/8th, and bugger what the rest of the world is doing, we were once the best and we should make them worry about us once again!).
Depth at 8 and 13 is the worry for me at this point. You have often named potential candiates in the centres, we just need one of them to actually start making a compelling case for selection. Ditto for L Timani – he can have potential out his ying-yang, but the best case for becoming a Wallaby is to consistently play like one.
June 26th 2012 @ 11:52am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:52am | Report comment
rl of course players like L.Timani are hamstrung by the terrible coaching at provincial level. Look at what Jake White has done with the talent available to him and compare it to what Foley has done.
In terms of depth it could be a case of slowly getting there. In the centres there is no one at all now, except Leeifano when fit, or a Tomane moved to 13. However, the three young guns I often mention Sautia, JORDAN Rapana (not Joel), Seuteni are all potentially centres and are highly touted. It could be that only one of them makes it but one is probably enough. The Wallabies have also not only lacked a good centre but a big one, a Nonu/SBW/Fruean. However that’s probably too much to ask! Just some good centres is enough. As for playmaking 12s I would agree with you normally but remember there are already three 5/8s in the team: Cooper, Beale and JOC, and a big shortage of simple strike runners. So if there were only Cooper I would say sure play a 5/8 type player at 12, but with Beale and JOC taking up two strike runners positions there is a danger of there being too many 5/8s and too few runners. Remember if you had strike runners at 11, 12 and 13 with Cooper, Beale and JOC elsewhere that would still be only 3 strike runners as opposed to the usual 5, which still isn’t that many.
In the pack there is depth at 7, lots of props and depth at hooker although the props have problems scrummaging, there are candidates at lock though still young, and then little depth at 6 and 8. L.Timani can’t solve all these problems! (Hooper and L.Timani on the bench would cover 4,5,6,7,8 however).
June 26th 2012 @ 8:59pm
Max Power said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:59pm | Report comment
You do know that Seuteni is a 10 don’t you KPM?
June 26th 2012 @ 10:28am
Sam Taulelei said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Good post KPM.
One other point for consideration for the closeness of the contests between the two sides is that Australia has this habit of playing to the level of their opposition, rather than above it when they’re expected to.
This inconsistency is what has bedevilled the Wallabies under Deans and together with Darwin Stubbies comments about players sense of entitlement and protection due to a lack of competition has probably been the biggest culture shock for Deans.
I have no doubts that the Wallabies level of play against the All Blacks will be several notches above where they played the Welsh, challenging the best demands that from you.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:41am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Sam as I often say the problem in Australia has been the playing pool and it has been interesting to see Deans’ evolution as a coach. He has gone in my opinion from being a general at the head of a great army (i.e. coaching players who are very good) to a guerilla chief (scrabbling together a half decent team from a raggamuffin bunch, many of whom aren’t any good). In the early days he was able to indifferently let Tahu leave, failing to work out that he wasn’t coaching the All Blacks and a replacement just wouldn’t exist. He has had to blood players scarcely out of kindergarten just to maximise the feeble talent pool and roll out any kind of team. Still for example in the centres the Wallabies have zero talent. It has been the challenge from hell and if he comes through successfully it will be a miracle although it may have killed him in the process.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:47am
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
(and here it is..)
KPM, I do take your point about Wales having some luck as you’ve stated, but I’ll come back with this: just as you mention Barnes’ missed goal, and Hooper’s drop while n the counter, you could just as easily look at Warburton’s horrendous pass that Priestland put down, with a four-on-two overlap outside him, and Wales ahead by a point at the time.
These are precisely the ‘what if’ moments I refer to.
Your point about Cooper is valid, but right at this point in time, I’m genuinely not sure what our best backline is. Obviously the likes of Cooper and O’Connor, and probably Drew Mitchell will have to come back in somewhere, but there’s so many possible combinations available that it’s hard to know what it is the preferred. The fact that everyone has their own thoughts on this seems to suggest I’m not alone on this. But that’s not a bad thing; it’s always good to have options, isn’t it?
Palu has played well this series, no question. Whether he’s improved or was great from the start is probably just semantics. I’m happy he’s playing well, regardless, and I hope the form continues for NSW and the Wallabies.
To finish, I’m not surprised that some Roarers might not necessarily agree with my positon on how close the teams are, but that’s fine. Everyone sees things differently, and this is all merely my two cents. And there’s certainly nothing wrong or indecent with your disagreement here KPM, just simply a different view of the same situation..
But thanks for taking the time you did KPM, you always bring an interesting perspective to the debate
June 26th 2012 @ 10:56am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:56am | Report comment
Thanks Brett and I always enjoy your very interesting articles and posts too. Differences of opinion are the tapestry of life in a way and I think in philosophy there is the idea that ideas can only progress by opposition, resolution, opposition as a process i.e. dialectic so it is maybe necessary to thought itself, or something like that
The Wallabies will certainly be a funny position in the summer. There will be Cooper and Barnes at 10, Beale 15, but then on the wings Ioane, JOC, Tomane, Mitchell, Turner (maybe Vuna), far too many to fit in. I find the Australian centres weak although committed in many ways. So somehow I would like to see all that wing talent brought in and there’s only one place it could go….we shall see.
June 26th 2012 @ 2:48pm
rl said | June 26th 2012 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
Good response Brett. I’m just returned from a brief interlude in The Roar’s league section (never again, I promise!) and gotten a small taste of “oikee”, Planko and Scott Woodward – you should thank your lucky stars you have KPM!!!
June 26th 2012 @ 3:42pm
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:42pm | Report comment
RL, for what it’s worth, there’s times that I’m convinced Oiks and Johnno are one and the same…
June 26th 2012 @ 3:48pm
rl said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
I have in my mind an image of Tristan (aka “oikee”) and Zac (aka “johnno”) sitting in their respective offices drinking beer and trying to out-do each other for outrageous comments
June 26th 2012 @ 4:01pm
Johnno said | June 26th 2012 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
Brett I can confirm now i am not Oikee , I am just john, i can be out there like Oikee but i am just johnoo. But all the same and for one at times with some of our logic yes.
And for what it’s worth Brett i do believe David Pocock should be dropped just as sam waitron should be dropped to the bench for Tupric.
Why becoz we have Liam Gill who was outstanding for the Australian under 20′s as captain.
Has statiscally outperformed david pock this year for the QLD reds.
So either both in the starting team as in phil waugh/George smith combination.
Liam Gill Brett is the best talent no 7 i have ever seen, was simply awesome as Australia’s under 20 captain and has done amazing things at the QLD reds this year. He reminds me of a young micheal jones or a young brad clyde. lima Gill has more natural talent than David Pocock and his statistics this year are superior to David Pocock this year too prove it, and his natural talent too.
June 26th 2012 @ 6:44pm
sittingbison said | June 26th 2012 @ 6:44pm | Report comment
OK Johnno, here are a couple of stats, but remember there are lies, damn lies and stats lol.
Game 1 Reds 35-20 Force
Pocock 83min, 8 runs 56m, 10 tackles, 1 offload, 1 linebreak, 6 rucks, 2 turnovers 1 try
Gill 17min, 2 runs 11m, 3 tackles, 2 rucks
Game 2 Force 45-19 Reds
Pocock 82min, 10 runs 46m, 19 tackles, 2 offloads, 1 try assist, 9 rucks
Gill 67mins 9 runs 48m, 16 tackles, 9 rucks 2 turnovers
These show that young Liam is performing very favorably with Pocock (who is acknowledged as one of the best 7s in the world – no flame war please). It was earlier in the season with Pocock backing up after the arduous previous season RWC and EOYT. It does not “prove” Gill is superior to Pocock. And stats show nothing about natural talent. Perhaps we should ask the Welsh what they think about Pococks natural talent?
Johnno, lets just be glad we have Pocock, Gill and Hooper.
June 26th 2012 @ 7:18pm
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 7:18pm | Report comment
RL, that’s quite a funny thought – I wouldn’t mind betting the Eds had a good chuckle at that too. Admit it Tristo, you did…
Johnno, thanks for clearing up that you are just you. You may have three or four different spelling variations of Johnno, but you truly are unique, I’ll give you that (and despite there now being a Johnno42, too).
But I can’t agree with you on dropping Pocock mate. Liam Gill in 20, he’s got his whole career ahead of him and there’s just no need to throw him in before his time. If anything, I hope a few years on fringe really builds the desire and fire within him, so that when he does finally become a Wallaby – and he will become one – he’ll hit the ground running.
Tupiric/Warburton will be interesting over the next few years, I will give you that..
June 26th 2012 @ 10:52am
Wales15 said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:52am | Report comment
Absolute rubbish Wales were missing key players too including their first choice front rower Evans, Faletau and Roberts. Not to mention we had players playing on one leg so to speak (Davies and Lydiate). This series is the only matches between Australia and Wales that have really counted. In Cardiff, Wales were playing a weakened team using some 4th choice props (Which costed penalties in scrums), fly-halfs (like Australia) and guess what had limited preperation and a weeks break after the WC. That was not a reflection of the difference between Oz and Wales. However, the first test aside due to rustyness, the series has shown there is nothing between both teams, each coming down to a last minute penalty. I don’t think having Cooper or O’Connor would have made much of a difference, in fact they probably would have lost it for Australia through their careless one man stuff.
I am actually looking forward to the test in Cardiff. A fresh Wales, non-bias SH ref (hopefully) and a full compliment of players. Australia must be there for the taking.
June 26th 2012 @ 11:07am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Roberts has hardly been at the party since the last Lions tour, Faletau was comprehensively outplayed by Palu.
The Wallabies in contrast were missing the most creative 10 in the world, Cooper, the best or second best 15, Beale, the outstanding JOC, two good quality international wings, Mitchell and Turner, the highly gifted newcomers Leiifano and Tomane. For what it’s worth they were also missing their captain James Horwill.
Basically their entire first choice backline except Digby Ioane, AND numerous other excellent players.
‘Australia must be there for the taking.’ Despite the fact that seriously weakened Australian teams have beaten them five times in the past year? Australia are not gloaters, but the lack of respect shown by the Welsh coaches and apparently fans on the basis of this post is striking.
June 26th 2012 @ 3:39pm
Kuruki said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
I have to disagree with you KPM. I think the series showed very much how close the two teams really are. Both sides missed opportunities and both sides had players missing. Two of those tests were decided by kicks. 11 points separated the teams over 3 tests. And i would go as far as saying had it been in Wales the 11 point margin may have been erased.
Cooper is creative but in test match rugby he can also be a liability which was proven during the world cup. And Berrick Barnes was one of the Wallabies best during the series.
Beale has not been the same player he was before the world cup at fullback.
JOC was probably the biggest loss yet he would have seen little ball on the wing the way things panned out anyway.
Leiifano and Tomane are not even worth mentioning as they have done nothing at international level.
KPM you really can only respect facts and the fact is this series was as close as they come. Whatever may or may not have happened is only speculation. Australia has got the wood on Wales for sure based on results but none of those wins came easy. And as far as first choice backline i would say Deans would have gone with Barnes and McCabe no matter who was available.
June 26th 2012 @ 4:28pm
Handles said | June 26th 2012 @ 4:28pm | Report comment
I have been letting them slide, but the repeated mentions of “Turner” and “Wallaby” in the same paragraph – without “will never be a reasonable” in between are getting too much!
KPM, you have been making some very good points in this discussion, but Turner is a loss for the Waratahs, not for the Wallabies. He has proven on many occasions that he is 1 dimensional, and prone to poor decisions at key times.
June 26th 2012 @ 12:04pm
Cicero said | June 26th 2012 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
a ‘non-bias SH ref’ – from where I sat, what Wales did to Pocock off the ball and got away with showed a distinct ‘pro NH bias’. But that’s just my interpretation, no more or no less valid than yours. It’s easy to blame ref when your team doesn’t win. Overall I think the refereeing was good, even handed and fair. Wales lost by the smallest of margins but not because the ref dudded them. Luck plays a part, composure under pressure, skill, grit and all the usual ingredients. It could just as easily have gone 3-0 Wales, they were that close.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:18am
Chop said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Both sets of hookers vary their throwing with the directional consistency of my 1-wood.
I’ve seen you hit a 1 wood and you’re VERY harsh on the hookers….
June 26th 2012 @ 9:29am
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
June 26th 2012 @ 9:21am
Bigbaz said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Sam Warburton wouldn’t get a start in any of the 3 nations sides on either side of the scrum.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:12am
MikeN said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:12am | Report comment
Hey Brett
Another way of looking at how close last Saturday’s match was, is, both teams scored one try andf both teams kickers only missed one of the same number of kicks. It was just that our kicker missed a conversion.
Still I’ll take any number of one point wins over any of the glorious defeats we have had in the past.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:57am
Brett McKay said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:57am | Report comment
That’s precisely the point I made to Ryan O’Connell last week, I think, Mike. Australia won two Tests in this series that on many occasions in the recent past they’d have lost. That’s an improvement by my reckoning, but obviously, with plenty of room for more improvement into and during the Rugby Championship..