Can the Tahs spoil the Brumbies party?
By David Lord, 6 Jul 2012 David Lord is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- Brumbies, Rugby Union, Super Rugby, Waratahs
NSW Waratahs coach Michael Foley is under pressure after a tough season (AAP Image/Paul Miller)
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First year Super Rugby coaches, Jake White and Michael Foley, will be treading vastly different paths tomorrow night when they meet at ANZ Stadium.
White has dramatically transformed the Brumbies from a player-power based basket-case into a genuine premiership contender, while Foley has set two unwanted records with the Waratahs – 10 losses in a season, including six on the trot.
If that’s stretched to 11 and seven, it will be only the second time in 16 years the Brumbies have won in Sydney, and that was a semi in 2002 with a thumping 53-10 victory before winning the final 33-31 over the Crusaders.
A staggering stat – one win in 16 years.
Their teams for tomorrow night clearly show the difference in stability.
The Australian Conference-leading Brumbies are unchanged, but the Waratahs have made five changes, three of them major punts.
Grayson Hart, the 24-year-old half-back on debut, in preference to the experienced pair of Sarel Pretorius and Brendan McKibbin, and switching fullback Bernard Foley to fly-half for the first time.
The totally untried pivot pairing shunts Wallaby fly-half Berrick Barnes, with two man-of-the-match performances against Wales, to inside centre.
For a coach under the ultimate pump to keep his job for next season, that three-pronged punt will prove to be either a dramatic career-saving bonus, or the exit door will be open wide.
Hart is a left-field selection.
He’s not even a Waratah squad member, but he has form.
New Zealand born, and a nephew of former All Blacks coach John Hart, Grayson was a member of the Junior All Blacks that won the World Cup in 2008, keeping new All Black half Aaron Smith on the bench.
Hart moved the Sydney last year to link with Southern Districts where he’s been outstanding.
The other surprise is the retention of Dean Mumm over Wallaby lock Sitaleki Timani. But a welcome return for winger Lachie Turner from long-term injury, forcing young Tom Kingston onto the bench.
Then the question, will the Brumbies highly-successful captain Ben Mowen, prop Dan Palmer, and goal-kicker Zac Holmes, return home to end the Sydney drought and keep their side in finals contention?
Mowen and Palmer are two of the many talented Waratahs let go over the years. Holmes was never recognised by NSW selectors at Northern Suburbs, and had to go to get a run.
The interesting side issues to the final two Super Rugby rounds – the Waratahs are playing for lost pride, the Brumbies have regained their pride and are now playing for position, as are the Reds, who meet the Waratahs in the final round.
Ironic isn’t it?
The lowly-performing Waratahs could ruin the Brumbies and Reds party, although with their disastrous season that would be an injustice.
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- Brumbies, Rugby Union, Super Rugby, Waratahs

July 6th 2012 @ 8:23am
apelu said | July 6th 2012 @ 8:23am | Report comment
Lord,
The Brumbies were not a basket case. They are the most successful Australian Super Rugby Team. No structure is best; Aristotle says it all depends on the men that run the organisation. So whether it’s the palyers or the coaches is irrelevant. Rod Macqueen set up the Brumbies as a club where players’ inputs were valued. Then, the Brumbies had the likes of Gregan, Roff, Larkham, etc., and it was successful. They needed to change when they did not have the players. But to say there were a basket case is a bit over the top! Some of us love the Brumbies whether winning or losing.
July 6th 2012 @ 8:40am
David Lord said | July 6th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
Rubbish apelu, they were a basket case last year of their own destruction having player-powered coach Andy Friend out of a job. If 4 wins, 11 losses, and a draw isn’t a basket case, what is?
July 6th 2012 @ 9:11am
Albo said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:11am | Report comment
I really wish you wouldn’t ‘rubbish’ someones opposing opinions so absolutely David. This is a comment section where people are expected to express their equal or opposite opinions. Just because it disagrees with yours doesn’t mean that it’s completely wrong. By all means disagree but take a leaf from Brett’s book and work with an opinion… not solely against it.
July 6th 2012 @ 10:47am
stanbley grella said | July 6th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
David is right in this one though,
the brumbies have been woefull for years and have been with alot of talent on the books.
Apelu is wrong in saying the brumbies were anything but a basket case last year.
July 6th 2012 @ 2:31pm
mudskipper said | July 6th 2012 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
The fact stands David that the Waratahs are the basket case of 2012… The whole Brumbies player power thing is wildly over exaggerated by journalists’ in need of a story.
However you know David, it did win the Brumbies 2 championships so there must be something in sharing leadership…
The Waratahs are in their 16th year of a 3 year plan to win their first rugby championship as Rod Kafer discerningly point out sometime ago…
July 6th 2012 @ 8:50pm
sportym said | July 6th 2012 @ 8:50pm | Report comment
lol…. how true that is!
Soon they can have a celebration of the Platinum anniversary of the 3 year plan!
July 6th 2012 @ 8:48pm
sportym said | July 6th 2012 @ 8:48pm | Report comment
Trying to win some fans are we David?
Its actually kinda ironic that if a poster expresses their opinion against an editor on the Roar they have their comment pulled, though an editor can rubbish posters views?!?
Great to see the Roar has high editorial standards…yeah that was sarcasm!
The Brumbies franchise was a mess last year, not a basket case, as they took steps to replace personal, hire white and now site on top of the OZ conference.
July 6th 2012 @ 8:28am
kingplaymaker said | July 6th 2012 @ 8:28am | Report comment
‘The other surprise is the retention of Dean Mumm over Wallaby lock Sitaleki Timani. ‘
This selection alone should have been enough for the Waratahs board to fire Foley, if there weren’t ten million reasons already.
Not only is Timani better than Mumm, but he has actually committed to stay at the Waratahs while Mumm is leaving, and is much younger and so clearly the future whereas the ageing Mumm is the past. Quite crackers and outrageous as a selection, almost smacks of corruption: aren’t Mumm’s relatives high up in the Waratahs? Shocking.
The Timanis should leave the Waratahs now that Foley is to stay. He clearly holds them in low regard, and without relatives in the Waratahs hierarchy they might struggle to play at all. The Force could use them well.
July 6th 2012 @ 8:59am
formeropenside said | July 6th 2012 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Mumm and Timani are both ineffective, but in different ways. Mumm looks ineffective – and generally is – while Timani looks impressive standing still, and does it a lot as a result.
Mumm can at least be somewhat effective in a lineout, while Timani’s work there is pretty substandard.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:14am
stillmissit said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:14am | Report comment
To pinch a boxing description to describe Timani – looks like a statue of a Greek god and has the same number of moves.
Mumm is one of the greatest over achievers in my 30+ years of watching. He has kept players with twice his ability on the bench, I think he must have strong JuJu – I wouldn’t cross him.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:44am
kingplaymaker said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Timani is manifestly better than Mumm now, however Mumm was in the past (not in my opinion that he was much). There’s a reason Mumm was left out of the Wallabies squad, and it’s not his age. Sharpe is 6 years older.
July 6th 2012 @ 3:07pm
Go_the_Wannabe's said | July 6th 2012 @ 3:07pm | Report comment
We used to call players like Timani “Tarzan and Jane”.
Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.
July 6th 2012 @ 4:09pm
mikeylives said | July 6th 2012 @ 4:09pm | Report comment
That’s not true though. I mostly disagree with KPM, but Timani did have an impact for the Wallabies against Wales – good hits and offloads. He just needs to work on his handling.
Mumm is good in the air, but handles the ball no better than Timani in open play for some inexplicable reason.
July 6th 2012 @ 11:25am
Justin2 said | July 6th 2012 @ 11:25am | Report comment
The problem is, as I see it from the coaching perspective, that Timani and Douglas are not proficient and experienced LO callers. So it would be a shambles potentially to have them both on the field at the same time.
Thats why both these players need to upskill and add strings to their bows IMO to become proper Test match footballers.
July 6th 2012 @ 8:30am
Red Kev said | July 6th 2012 @ 8:30am | Report comment
The Brumbies aren’t premiership contenders. Of the teams that have a chance to make the finals this year they have beaten the Highlanders and the Hurricanes. Of the other six they have skipped two altogether and lost to the other four (including twice to the Reds).
Snagging bonus points for close losses to boost your ladder ranking doesn’t make the team genuine contenders. There are no bonus points come finals time and the Brumbies have shown they can’t beat the top teams.
I will put the caveat on that of “this year”. I think the Brumbies just aren’t ready yet. Next year they could put in a genuine run at the title.
July 6th 2012 @ 8:58am
Jutsie said | July 6th 2012 @ 8:58am | Report comment
In fairness they played the chiefs and bulls away and if not for brain farts (nic white against the chiefs marius jonker in the bulls game) could’ve walked away with the points in both instances but agree with your general point. They remind a bit of the reds of 2010.
July 6th 2012 @ 2:26pm
Red Kev said | July 6th 2012 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
I had forgotten about that Jonker call … That does strengthen the Brumbies’ case.
July 6th 2012 @ 3:31pm
Jutsie said | July 6th 2012 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
They were hitting some fine form during the sth african tour and if they played in the same fashion during the finals they would be a chance for a few wins. However despite lordy’s calls for him to be a wallaby bolter holmes has not been nearly half as effective at 10 as CL was he does not have the passing game and his kicking can be aimless at times.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:19am
David Lord said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Red Kev, you’re selling the Brumbies short. Barring two huge upsets, they will be in the play-offs, and you’ve got to be in it to win it. Jake White has performed wonders this sesson, and who knows what the RWC winning coach has up his sleeve for sudden death rugby. A bit of fence sitting might be the better call right now.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:23am
Spencer said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Lordy, this is a first. You on the fence? Never. I agree with RK.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:26am
Red Kev said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:26am | Report comment
And which team would you be confident backing the Brumbies to beat out of the other potential finalists?
Week 1 of the finals, Brumbies v [whoever] at Canberra Stadium.
I’ll lock in my tip now for [whoever] thanks.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:44am
Cliff said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:44am | Report comment
They haven’t lost to anyone by more than 7 – they’ve been competitive right to the siren all year long. That has to count for something.
July 6th 2012 @ 10:04am
Red Kev said | July 6th 2012 @ 10:04am | Report comment
Yes it does count for something – it has after all gotten them to the top of the Australian conference and will get them into the finals giving them valuable experience. I just don’t think it makes them contenders for the title.
Against good opposition the Brumbies are just falling short.
It’s not meant to deride the Brumbies at all, they have done far better than anyone thought they would this year, they’re just not good enough to win the Super Rugby (in my opinion).
The Reds are the same this year – they just lost to the Stormers in Brisbane, just lost to the Crusaders in Christchurch – last year when there were in championship form they found ways to win those matches.
July 6th 2012 @ 8:53pm
sportym said | July 6th 2012 @ 8:53pm | Report comment
Better hope they do not face the Bulls if they make the finals
July 6th 2012 @ 8:40am
Sailosi said | July 6th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
Your right KPM an astonishing decision to play Mumm. In AFL if a player declares they are leaving at seasons end than it is rare for them to get selected even if it’s early in the season. Not only is this the second last game if the season they are not even in finals contention. Any players who aren’t playing with the waratahs should not be selected. Experience should be given to young players who may feature next year.
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July 6th 2012 @ 8:46am
kingplaymaker said | July 6th 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
Sailosi it’s strange to see a decision of such flagrant corruption in the flesh. No sane coach would ever choose Mumm 1) because he’s useless 2) because he’s leaving and 3) because Timani has just played two Wallabies tests and Mumm has been left out of Wallabies contention.
This decision is a moral violation of the highest order in rugby terms. Maybe Mumm is being selected in fact BECAUSE he’s leaving, to give him a good show-off with his relatives watching from the corporate boxes. Timani should presumably go along with this, playing off the bench so that the blue-blooded Mumm can get his send-off?
Foley was an insider appointed with no open competition. He selects like an insider too, preferring those with family connections and friends within the organisation to an islander who doubtless won’t be able to stand up for himself in the franchise or have the same backing. A disgrace and downright abuse of authority.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:29am
stillmissit said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
KPM agree with all apart from the Foley selection politics that I have not heard about.
When a coach makes an emotional decision to leave out a superior player for a send off occasion then that is a solid sign that they are useless. Message to Foley it is about winning not giving old players grand send offs.
If the Waratahs were in a strong position might be different but as it is this is stupid.
I was amazed and stupified with Phil Kearns sycophantic support for Foley on the Rugby Club last night.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:36am
kingplaymaker said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
stillmissit there was much the same excuse-making from John Eales, who would come up with any half-baked reason to support Foley.
Timani could probably sue Foley for not giving him a starting position because of sending off an old-player. It is professional bias and discrimination.
July 6th 2012 @ 10:53am
stanley grella said | July 6th 2012 @ 10:53am | Report comment
or he could have selected Mumm due to the fact that he has a much higher involvement rate and against the brumbies its the right call to make.
but hey, each to there own.
July 6th 2012 @ 11:10am
kingplaymaker said | July 6th 2012 @ 11:10am | Report comment
A mediocre quality of involvement and perhaps that’s why Mumm isn’t in the Wallabies squad and Timani is. In fact out of the three locks under consideration, the only one playing for the Wallabies is left out.
July 6th 2012 @ 12:14pm
formeropenside said | July 6th 2012 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
but you overlook the fact that based on form Timani should not be anywhere near a Wallaby jersey
July 6th 2012 @ 12:37pm
kingplaymaker said | July 6th 2012 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Untrue.
July 6th 2012 @ 11:28am
Justin2 said | July 6th 2012 @ 11:28am | Report comment
SMI – Kearns was hilarious wasnt he? He is just an apologist.
I also think he may have had some input as a consultant, to keep Foley. So if that was the case he should have declared that on TV or sat out of the questioning for mine…
July 6th 2012 @ 5:07pm
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | July 6th 2012 @ 5:07pm | Report comment
Justin2 – The consultant role with the Tahs was asked and confirmed a few shows back.
For me I felt his handling of the ‘stats supporting the fact that the Tahs don’t kick as much as other teams’ blah blah and therefore ‘fans are wrong to complain about the constant kicking’ ………. was hard to listen to and pretty consistent with the lack of nouse that he usually fails to bring to the show.
Most Tahs fans that I have spoken to or read, haven’t complained about the amount of kicking at all but rather the quality of it. They pointed out that it was so often just Aimless, Inaccurate and Desperate, and simply gifted possession back to the other team.
I believe it was actually a Sth African commentator that remarked that Berrick was trying to set a new record for the number of kicks in a game.
July 6th 2012 @ 5:18pm
Justin2 said | July 6th 2012 @ 5:18pm | Report comment
Yeah good points and thanks for clearing up the consultant bit.
You are right, its not the amount of kicking but the quality. And when they do run it is hardly exciting IMO.
July 6th 2012 @ 1:10pm
B-Rock said | July 6th 2012 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
KPM – What does Timani being an islander have to do with it?
I agree Mumm should not be playing given the last two games are clearly the start of the rebuilding effort for 2013. Saying that, a locks most important contribution to the team is the lineout, so if that is compromised by a Timani/Douglas second row, surely the most likely explanation is not racism or favouratism but rather balance and leadership?
Also, Timani has not been playing that well – since when is he a great lock? I recall him being torn to shreds on the roar when playing for both the Tahs and Wallabies for being soft. I think he is a talented player but not an automatic selection.
July 6th 2012 @ 8:52am
levelheaded said | July 6th 2012 @ 8:52am | Report comment
I listened to Foley on a radio call and he is playing Mumm as he is the line out caller – makes sense as that is not a strong piece for Timani, yet! So play to their capability, sacking staff is not the answer, reinforcing positive messages and developing on areas are and has been the core of leadership for centuries! It is obvious by comments that emotion gets in the way of a balanced perspective – I too am frustrated. Frustrated that cheap shots continue – heirachy of the Mumms, are you kidding, they definitely do not. I just had a look and Dean’s brother is an entry level Coach and their father is on the ARU Board, not the Waratahs. A Coach picks the team, not a Board!
July 6th 2012 @ 9:01am
Albo said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:01am | Report comment
Exactly LH. Sensationalism at its best. I don’t know much father-Mumm but anyone who’s had anything to do with his brother Greg would know that he is one of the most fair-minded and genuine people going around.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:34am
kingplaymaker said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Albo you can’t blame Mumm himself for being chosen, but Foley for choosing him.
July 6th 2012 @ 12:23pm
Albo said | July 6th 2012 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Agreed.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:03am
Jutsie said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:03am | Report comment
Levelheaded by name levelheaded by nature, well said.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:07am
formeropenside said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Yeah, like there is much of a difference between the ARU and the Waratahs.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:16am
Spencer said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:16am | Report comment
I hope Foley picks Mummy for the Reds match. After all that the QRU have done for Foley, it’s the least he could do.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:33am
kingplaymaker said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:33am | Report comment
levelheaded Kane Douglas could call the lineouts.
Foley should be fired thousands of miles from anywhere that plays rugby.
So you’re suggesting he should be kept on? With the biggest rugby state in Australia, that produces the most players, a mass of Wallabies, and he has churned out a disastrous season, and one in a boring kicking style that has sent fans flying away in their droves?
July 6th 2012 @ 9:42am
formeropenside said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:42am | Report comment
Well to be fair, most of them should not have been Wallabies.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:38am
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
I thought the starting of Dean Mumm over Timani strange too until I heard Michael Foley’s reasoning, and I’m fine with that.
I’m actually not a believer in the idea because someone is leaving next year that you should not use them until such time. It’s not like he’s taking corporate secrets with him. He’s in there to run the lineout. If he’s the best man for the job then I see it as a smart move. I hope he has a blinder.
You could also argue that moving Barnsey to 12 after him winning MOM twice in the Wales tests is crazy. Personally I’m excited to see what the Foley / Barnes combo offers. And with the season gone it seems a good time to see what Hart offers at 9 too.
Go the Tahs!!!
July 6th 2012 @ 9:42am
kingplaymaker said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:42am | Report comment
When has he ever had a blinder?
Douglas can run the lineouts. The season is over in terms of qualification and the best team for the future should be chosen. Timani should be rewarded for his committment to the club by being chosen, not humiliated by being demoted to the bench after two Wallabies caps. It’s part of a pattern too: his brother is never started.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:44am
Red Kev said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:44am | Report comment
That’s because his brother isn’t good enough.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:45am
kingplaymaker said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:45am | Report comment
No it’s not. Elsom isn’t good enough but is still selected.
July 6th 2012 @ 4:16pm
mikeylives said | July 6th 2012 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
Against the Sharks this yr.
July 6th 2012 @ 10:02am
jameswm said | July 6th 2012 @ 10:02am | Report comment
Dave Dennis can call the lineouts, and has before. You all missed him.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:15am
Sailosi said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
Even if you think Timani is ineffective at least with the waratahs he has only been ineffective for 2 years. Dean Mumm has been ineffective for 8.
I would never suggest corruption KPM, it’s just another example of waratahs ineptitude.
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July 6th 2012 @ 9:43am
formeropenside said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:43am | Report comment
Dont forget, Timani was ineffective for the Force and Brumbies for a while too, albeit not 8 years all up.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:48am
kingplaymaker said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
The Force and the Brumbies are in the past. He came on as a player only last year.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:17am
stillmissit said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Foley has proven to all and sundry that he has no idea about coaching a team. I feel sorry for myself and all other Waratahs fans.
It is stupid to call for Waratah fans to not go to watch them for 2 reasons. They are down to the diehards anyway. Taking more money off them could ensure the franchise goes broke, something none of us want.
July 6th 2012 @ 9:24am
Hansie said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:24am | Report comment
I think you’ll find the Crusaders beat the Brumbies, 31-13, in the 2002 Super 12 final.
July 6th 2012 @ 10:28am
Markus said | July 6th 2012 @ 10:28am | Report comment
I prefer David’s rewrite of history. Up the Brumbies!
July 6th 2012 @ 11:01am
Hansie said | July 6th 2012 @ 11:01am | Report comment
I was in Christchurch for that final, and I much prefer David’s version!
July 6th 2012 @ 9:47am
kingplaymaker said | July 6th 2012 @ 9:47am | Report comment
Even if Foley insisted on putting Mumm in one lock position, Timani should have taken the other. He is the only one of the three to win a Wallaby starting cap in the last series and that should be recognised at the Tahs, not treated with contempt.