Developing a second-tier for A-League
By wisey_9, 13 Jul 2012 wisey_9 is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- A-League, A-League promotion, FFA, ffa cup, football, Football Federation Australia, promotion and relegation
Travis Dodd celebrates a goal with Steven McGarry during the round 23 A-League match between Perth Glory and the Central Coast Mariners at Perth Oval AAP Image: Tony McDonough
Related coverage
Vince Rugari’s article on the new Australian Premier League seemed to touch a few nerves when it came to promotion/relegation debate.
Some are keen to see some of the old NSL clubs join the A-League, others claim that these team do not have the required support or facilities to have this happen.
One thing is for certain though: the AFC demands that all of its professional leagues have a promotion and relegation system in place. So, sometime over the next 10 to 20 years, the excuse that our fledgling league is still finding its feet will no longer fly amongst the AFC delegates – we need to start planning now.
Let’s face it, if any A-League team were to be relegated from the competition at the end of this season, it would certainly face financial ruin. With the Fury and Gold Coast debacles still fresh in everyone’s memory, another club going belly up is exactly what Australian football does not need at the moment.
So how does the APL find an even balance between providing a healthy competition to feed the A-League whilst still being financially responsible?
First of all, let’s rule out a nationwide second-tier. The A-League is having enough difficulties establishing itself as a professional league. A competition existing underneath this – trying to operate on even thinner budgets, with potentially zero TV dollars coming in – is simply not going to happen.
Second, any system that is set in place needs to be weighted heavily in favour of any A-League team fighting against relegation. Any A-League club should be able to beat a state-league club over two legs, especially when they have the benefit of playing at home second.
The idea is to have relegation only a real possibility for a very poor team – in the first seven seasons of the A-League only the woeful Gold Coast from last year realistically could have been beaten by a state-league club.
Here’s how I see it working: currently there are nine member federations of the FFA, and ideally each should have an equal claim to providing a challenger to play-off for a spot in the A-League.
So in the weeks leading up to the A-League Finals series there is a competition that pools these teams against each other. Where it would be held could be subject to a tender process. Rather than selling games to Bathurst or Launceston in a bid to bring football to the regional centres, let them host these playoffs.
This “Challenger Cup” has a duel role; exposing the second-tier teams to a national audience, and allowing an extra few games to be added to the TV schedule (hello impending TV rights deal!). Eventually, through the FFA Cup, state teams can be seeded into groups (similar to how the UEFA club coefficients work). But for now let’s assume it would look something like this -
Challenger Cup:
To be played over the final two weeks of the A-League regular Season – March 23-31.
Pool A:
Capital Football Winner
FFSA Winner
Football NSW Winner
Pool B:
Football NT Winner
Football Federation Victoria Winner
Football West Winner
Pool C:
Football Federation Tasmania Winner
Football Federation Queensland Winner
Northern NSW Football Winner
Final Pool:
Finals Week 1 – April 05-07
Pool A Winner
Pool B Winner
Pool C Winner
Relegation Playoff 1:
Finals Week 2 – April 12-14
Challenger Cup Winner vs. HAL 10th Place
Relegation Playoff 2:
Finals Week 3 – April 20-21
HAL 10th Place vs. Challenger Cup Winner
Rules:
In each pool game, teams would only play each other once.
Each pool game needs a result – If scores are even at the end of the game, extra time and then penalties will be used to separate the teams.
In the case of a three way tie at the end of the pool games, goals scored will be used to separate the teams.
If the teams can still not be separated, the highest seed will go through.
Admittedly, there are some flaws in this system. What happens if a club succeed in getting promotion but cannot fund its existence in the A-League? What if it’s facilities are not up to A-League standard?
All worthwhile questions. But one thing is clear – we need to find a resolution to the second-tier issue. So let me know your thoughts? Am I on the right track?
Do you have what it takes to become a sports writer? Write for the roar
Football articles
- South Melbourne saga shows the divisions in our football family (170)
- NSL lessons vital for A-League’s future (103)
- A-League expansion possibilities (102)
- The FA Cup final lost its lustre long ago (92)
- English football has drama Aussie sport can’t replicate (86)
- Can the Victory reach 50,000 and beyond? (82)
- Don’t be fooled: FFA Cup is too big a risk (78)
- EPL Super Sunday 2013: Final day live scores, updates, blog (38)
- David Beckham – the underrated superstar (14)
- Who would be a football manager? (6)
- Bundesliga: can Freiburg ‘do a Gladbach’? (0)
- R.I.P Sir Alex (0)
- Can the Victory reach 50,000 and beyond? (82)
- EPL lacking drama for end of season finale (12)
Recommend this story.
- Explore:
- A-League, A-League promotion, FFA, ffa cup, football, Football Federation Australia, promotion and relegation

July 13th 2012 @ 5:04am
Mark Roth said | July 13th 2012 @ 5:04am | Report comment
I’m sure others will offer a more substantial critique, but why exactly will pool games need winners? If anything forcing every pool match to have a winner increases the chances of all three teams finishing level, at a win and a loss each.
July 13th 2012 @ 8:01am
Gooner said | July 13th 2012 @ 8:01am | Report comment
‘Woeful Gold Coast’? I might be biased, it was my football club, but that’s harsh. Did you actually watch the A-League last season? I reckon our young side woud’ve won the league within the decade. It was a very exciting team and it’s a shame that we will never get the chance to see what they could have done.
Relegation would’ve benefited us- instead of complete destruction we would’ve been given a second chance. That’s what relegation offers and that’s why we need it.
July 13th 2012 @ 10:13am
wisey_9 said | July 13th 2012 @ 10:13am | Report comment
Hey Gooner. Yep I may have been a little harsh – the Gold Coast had a good number of exciting players. Halloran and Brown have the potential to go far…
But it was disappointing to have a ‘team of the future’ in the competition – like a Gold Coasts Suns – rather than just having another team pushing for a finals spot.
July 14th 2012 @ 11:17am
chris p said | July 14th 2012 @ 11:17am | Report comment
Hey Gooner “teams of the future” cant exist in salary capped leagues Gold coast would have been gutted of players long before your 10 yr dead line, Hell heart have barely made it 2 years without all of their talented youngster going
July 13th 2012 @ 9:18am
Livio said | July 13th 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
This article and the play-off system is exactly on the right track.
However, this playoff criteria should be to initially include additional 6 new Clubs in the next three years so the top two ‘State Teams’ qualify for inclusion into the A-League. This would bring A-League to 16Teams
Also forget ablout facilities to enter into the A-League, as long as the ground ‘holds’ 10-12K of supporters then it should satisfy criteria – The Clubs will meet simple criteria and improve facilities from there. Don’t overburden Clubs with unnecessary financial hardships. Successful Clubs can choose for themselves not to be included if the Clubs feel that they cannot afford to be a part of the A-League. Great inducement to develop Clubs and Football.
After 3 years and 16 Teams in A-League then revert to your suggested system of promotion & relegation. Remove all issues of to many Clubs from one state or area as this is also irrelvent. If Tasmania are good enough to have 2 teams in A-League and NSW have no teams then so-be-it! This is the incentive to improve.
July 13th 2012 @ 10:17am
wisey_9 said | July 13th 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Expanding to 16 teams in the next three years is probably a little too ambitious.
But this system could be used to identify who the strong federations and clubs are (similar to how the UEFA club coefficients work). That way, the FFA could say that the top two clubs that perform after the next 10 (5? 20?) years will be the ones to be inducted into the HAL.
This way, we have a very clear pathway into the A-League.
July 13th 2012 @ 9:23am
pete4 said | July 13th 2012 @ 9:23am | Report comment
B-League will definitely happen but the key will be like everything else to have a TV deal that underpins it
I think once the A-League gets up 12 clubs we should wait until such time as the game can afford it without fear any relegated club would be lost
July 13th 2012 @ 10:19am
wisey_9 said | July 13th 2012 @ 10:19am | Report comment
I think the problem with a B-League would be that there will simply not be enough money to sustain a national competition… as the article suggests – the second tier must be developed through the state pathways that we already have…
July 13th 2012 @ 11:03am
pete4 said | July 13th 2012 @ 11:03am | Report comment
wisey_9 – I disagree. Lots of people said the same thing about the A-League. No money, 3 years max etc
In the long term a fully professional 10 team A-League and 10 team B-League is achievable IMO until then the State leagues will remain the second tier
July 13th 2012 @ 7:13pm
philk said | July 13th 2012 @ 7:13pm | Report comment
I don’t see why we shouldn’t have a 10 team B League running in tandem with and parallel to the current 10 team A League without promotion/relegation until such time as it is financially prudent to do so. We could easily add this second tier to the TV deal thus offsetting the costs of running the two leagues. We already have a number of clubs in state league competitions who are quite professionally run such as South Melbourne, Sydney Olympic,Brisbane Strikers (to name but a few) and could make the step up to a professional league ( I now fully expect a barrage of criticism from the anti old NSL brigade!! )
July 14th 2012 @ 4:33pm
Jim said | July 14th 2012 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
Your ideas are very similar to ones that I have and so I am very happy to say that I think you are on the right track.
But will the FFA listen to you?
July 13th 2012 @ 9:26am
Blackmac79 said | July 13th 2012 @ 9:26am | Report comment
If you read the AFC guidelines it does not actually state that a country requires promotion and relegation, but rather that it has facilities for promotion and relegation to take place if required. So technically there would not need to be and promotion or relegation. Korea is an example of this.
July 13th 2012 @ 9:39am
nordster said | July 13th 2012 @ 9:39am | Report comment
A relegated team would only face financial ruin if they tried to bring in a second division and keep the wage cap/floor system at the same time. The bar is too high for pro/rel to work now. They need to get over their ‘level the playing field’ (lol) fixation first.
July 13th 2012 @ 10:20am
Bludger said | July 13th 2012 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Do not see the value in promotion and relegation. It does not even really work in Europe any more. It did back in the old days before tv money changed everything. The top clubs in each nation are so far ahead it relegates every other club to just being part of a supporting cast.
In Australia, we are not a soccer nation, nowhere even near it. People are not rusted on followers of clubs like you get overseas. Most Australians do not follow the A-League at all, it is not on tv or radio. Then the distance aspect. It costs a lot of money to move people around. It must cost Perth and Wellington a fortune.
Question is how would you bankroll a second tier and keep afloat relegated clubs? There is no tv money in 2nd tier competitions, even in Britain it relies on attendances and rich owners. So how would you get that in Australia where people do not really follow the local game of soccer? People say they follow the big sexy clubs in Europe and watch the Socceroos when they are in the World Cup but that is the end of it. It is just too difficult to watch, being on pay tv and not in mainstream media.
Personally I think we already have a great second tier in place, namely the state leagues. Do not see how you can improve on that.
Europe might end up scrapping relegation soon in any case. They are looking to go into a European SuperLeague for the major clubs like the NFL because of all the dead games. So Europe is more likely to go the US and our model before we go their way. Just my take.
July 13th 2012 @ 10:32am
MG said | July 13th 2012 @ 10:32am | Report comment
Exactly, look at the SPL with the Rangers situation. They can’t afford a team with such significant support to be relegated because of TV revenue, etc.
What happens if Melbourne Victory get relegated? The A League would instantly suffer. And perhaps fail.
Promotion Relegation is not sustainable in Australia. It is only on the agenda to keep the suits at AFC HQ happy, will never happen.
July 31st 2012 @ 8:40pm
GaryS said | July 31st 2012 @ 8:40pm | Report comment
MG Rangers were not relegated, they were liquidated. The new club was allowed into the league as a replacement. As with all new clubs entering the Scottish league structure this was done at the lowest tier. Anything else would damage the Scottish game further and really has nothing to do with promotion and relagation being discussed here. However if your point refers the fact that big clubs should not be relegated as they bring in the cash or they cant survive outside the top league then it’s flawed. The latter has some merit which is why the timing of relegation is important. The former however has no credit ilty whatsoever ever. The game in Scotland will survive without Rsngers in the top league. The game is bigger than any one club. In fact the Scottish 3rd division will get a cash boost and help the game most where it’s needed, the ‘supporting acts’ .
July 31st 2012 @ 8:32pm
GaryS said | July 31st 2012 @ 8:32pm | Report comment
Bludger you are talking crap and clearly have no idea about football in Europe. There will never not be relegation and promotion. It allows all ambitious clubs grow whilst others fall. It help breath new life into each top league. Plus before the rich owners there were still only a handful of top clubs whilst lower league clubs like Forest were able to aspire and attain European glory. Yes the financial models are different but promotion and relegation is still essential for a vibrante evolving league.
July 13th 2012 @ 10:20am
Marty said | July 13th 2012 @ 10:20am | Report comment
I think anything like this is at least 10 years away if not a lot longer – it took germany 11 years before an official 2nd division was created and it didn’t have at least 3 other major professional sporting distractions vying for attention, never mind the fact that all their major cities are veritable next door neighbours compared to ours. The J-league, which had strikingly similar problems to our competition (rapid expansion, financial mismanagement) managed to get to a 3rd tier within 10 years, but they also don’t have a myriad of other football codes and sports that are widely seen as more exciting and culturally fitting, they latched onto football and had a far, far greater desire to be like the rest of the footballing world – and quickly.
July 14th 2012 @ 4:39pm
Jim said | July 14th 2012 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
Most Australians don’t believe that – “other football codes and sports are widely seen as more exciting and culturally fitting” – SO speak ONLY for yourself OK, Becky Wilson?
July 17th 2012 @ 10:18am
Marty said | July 17th 2012 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Dripping irony aside… are you seriously denying how entrenched league and afl et al are in our sporting culture?? I’m not saying that a great and successful football league can’t happen, I would love it to be huge!! – I’m just being realistic about how long it could take due to unique challenges posed by multiple, popular, long standing and successful sporting competitions. I dunno what becky wilson is referring to by the way – maybe you are more in touch with the average punter..? All I know is that the vast majority of guys I play football with are far more likely to go to a cricket / league / afl match before attending an Aleague match.. and these are guys who play the damn sport!
July 13th 2012 @ 10:25am
Trentus said | July 13th 2012 @ 10:25am | Report comment
The author lost me at the comment about the Gold Coast – he clearly doesn’t know enough about the A-League for me to trust what he has to say.
The Gold Coast were competitive all season and Adelaide only just finished above them – they also beat the Premiers (CCM). For a really woeful side you can’t go past the New Zealand Knights’ first season, when they finished with 1 win, 3 draws and -32 goal difference. NQF had a similar goal difference in their last season but 19 points. GCU ended last season with 21 points and -12 gd – nowhere near as bad.
I didn’t follow GCU, I’m simply pointing out what I consider an error.
July 13th 2012 @ 11:14am
tonysalerno said | July 13th 2012 @ 11:14am | Report comment
The A-league is not ready for a second-tier competition yet- there is not enough depth in the Australian ranks.