Reds in, Brumbies out as Quade faces a forced holiday
By David Lord, 15 Jul 2012 David Lord is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- ACT Brumbies, Quade Cooper, Queensland Reds, Rugby Union, Will Genia
278 Have your say
Queensland Reds' Quade Cooper runs the ball in his Super Rugby return (AAP Image/Dave Hunt)
Related coverage
The distinct possibility of Quade Cooper copping a holiday for his high tackle on Berrick Barnes took a lot of the gloss off the Reds topping the Australian conference with a 32-16 defeat of the Waratahs at Suncorp.
Cooper was white carded, yellow carded and cited as Barnes’ tournament ended in Disneyland.
And the Waratahs completed their worst season in the state’s famous history with just four wins and 12 losses, the last eight in succession, both records.
A vastly different story for the Reds, with Will Genia’s inspiring leadership turning his side around after a rather ordinary first half with a 12-11 lead, and two tries knowing they had to score four tries to qualify.
In the first 17 minutes of the second half, the Reds piled on 17 unanswered points with positive rugby, aided and abetted by three glaring Waratah errors that each led to tries, stretching their lead to 29-11 and it was all over bar the handshakes.
Full credit to the defending champions for overcoming an horrific period in weeks 5, 6, 7, when they were flogged 61-8 by the Bulls at Loftus and 45-10 by the Force at Perth, giving up 13 tries and scoring only four.
And when they were beaten 29-25 by the Sharks at Suncorp, it was the first time in three years the Reds had lost three on the trot.
On the other side of the coin, the real story was the inexplicable collapse of the Brumbies, beaten 30-16 by the lowly Blues in Canberra.
“We went away from our game plan from the kick-off, giving away 14 points in 11 minutes. Everything we planned went out the window,” explained a bitterly disappointed coach Jake White.
They went into the final round with a five-point lead over the Reds, but came away without posting a tournament point. As a result both the Reds and Brumbies finished on 58 points, with the top honour going to the Reds with 11 wins to the Brumbies 10.
What a time for coach White, and skipper Ben Mowen, for the Brumbies to turn in their only poor performance of the season when it counted the most. White and Mowen have combined so well in their first year at the franchise, they deserved a far fairer fate.
But what’s fair, and what’s fact, don’t often sit at the same table.
Having said that, nothing can be taken away from the Auckland Blues. They completely outplayed and out-thought the Brumbies to claim only their fourth win of the season, including the last two rounds against the Force and Brumbies.
So the regular season is done-and-dusted, with the conference winners, and automatic finals series qualifiers:
South Africa – the Stormers on 66.
New Zealand – the Chiefs – 64.
And Australia – the Reds – 58.
The three next best performed of the remaining 12 franchises to make up the finals series of six – the wild cards:
Crusaders – 61.
Bulls – 59.
Sharks – 59.
So close:
Brumbies – 58.
Hurricanes – 57.
Next weekend, the two top qualifying Stormers and the Chiefs will enjoy a bye while the Reds meet the Sharks at Suncorp, and the Crusaders clash with the Bulls at Christchurch – both sudden death.
Two huge bonuses for the Australasian teams, forcing the South Africans to travel.
In the semis, the Stormers will meet the winner of the Reds and Sharks. The Chiefs will do battle with the winner of the Crusaders-Bulls match.
The 2012 Super Rugby championship final will be between the two winners of the semis at the home ground of the franchise with the most tournament points after the regular season.
The Crusaders will be the team to beat, seeking a record eighth Super crown.
Sport, all day long. Does this sound too good to be true? We're searching for a Group Sales Manager to lead our team in Sydney. If you're a sales star who doesn't mind a hit, kick, throw, or cycle, we want to hear from you. Apply now.
Have you seen the new Wallabies jersey? Want one of your own? We're giving away a brand new 2013 Wallabies jersey to one lucky Roarer, click here to go in the running to win.
- Explore:
- ACT Brumbies, Quade Cooper, Queensland Reds, Rugby Union, Will Genia



July 15th 2012 @ 6:58am
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 6:58am | Report comment
One doesn’t want to write off Jake White as a coach, but it’s worth remembering two things 1) He couldn’t take South Africa to an extended period as number one in the world despite coaching a country with great resources 2) The World Cup victory was a cake walk, avoiding New Zealand and Australia and was easier than winning two Tri-nations matches in a row.
Losing this match is a significant failure, given how well the team played for the rest of the year.
Obviously he hasn’t had the cattle the Reds do, but then he has perhaps neglected potentially fine players such as Kuridrani and Vaea for safer options, when they might have given him the strike power he needs. ‘Might’ is the word here, but coaching does involve risks. Perhaps White played it too safe as is often the case with South African coaches.
Next year he could have an improved Squad which may help him.
I’ve said it before but Quade Cooper IS the Reds. The most creative player I have seen in the professional era.
One plus for the Reds: because so many of their players have been injured in the season they will be less exhausted than other teams.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:20am
Red Kev said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:20am | Report comment
Watching the game I thought the Brumbies suffered a young team lapse, they appeared to be like the Reds.at the start.of the season, assuming they would win. Forgiveable given their.squad. One hopes White uses it as a lesson to flog them with in the pre-season.
Shipperley and Speight confirmed themselves as miles.ahead of Vuna in the winger race. Tomane and Mitchell played well too.
The Reds … third yet sixth on points. If they beat the sharks I can already hear the whinging about the conference system.
Cooper, no malice, but still reckless, with no priors I expect him to cop 2 weeks (I only saw it.from the stands, not seen any replays).
For David … a couple of corrections the Reds lost to the.Sharks in round 4 in Durban. And if the Reds and Crusaders both win, the Crusaders will play the Stormers and the Reds will travel to Waikato, the Stormers will play whoever finished lowest on the ladder (that is still alive in week 2 of the finals).
July 15th 2012 @ 7:34am
Red Kev said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:34am | Report comment
Or is it most tournament points that determine seedings after the first week of the finals? That would be an interesting wrinkle. Bad news for the Chiefs too if so.
Apologies if I tried to “correct” you and you were right Mr Lord.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:44am
justsaying said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:44am | Report comment
No you’re right RK – If the Reds win they’ll play the Chiefs in Hamilton, and either the Crusaders or Bulls will head to Cape Town.
July 15th 2012 @ 2:36pm
Brett McKay said | July 15th 2012 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
Kev, you’re kind of right, the teams go into the Qual Finals ranked 3-6, with the Reds 3rd, and the Sharks 6th.
The Stormers will play the lowest ranked winner coming through the Qualifying Finals, and the Chiefs play the highest rank. So if the Reds and Crusaders win, the Reds will play Chiefs (2 v 3), and the Stormers will host the Crusaders (1 v 4)
July 15th 2012 @ 2:52pm
AndyS said | July 15th 2012 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
Has that been definitvely established? The wording on the ARU site is “Winner of match A or B with highest playoff ranking”. Are the Reds ranked third, or is that only a seeding for the purposes of defining the qualifying finals?
July 15th 2012 @ 3:23pm
Brett McKay said | July 15th 2012 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
Andy, the Reds are definitely ranked third. The Crusaders are 4th, Bulls 5th, and Sharks 6th.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:40am
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:40am | Report comment
Shipperley is as far behind Vuna in talent as could be imagined. If it weren’t for Vuna’s defence he would be an outstanding player.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:47am
Red Kev said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:47am | Report comment
That may be the stupidest post on this site to date. Congratulations.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:55am
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:55am | Report comment
Red Kev you’re doubtless in a bullish mood because the Reds did well, but you’re not going to persuade anyone to put the worse QLD players into the Wallabies because of it.
Here’s news for you: Shipperley is average. Always will be. He will never be an especially good player and only ever a Super rugby journeyman.
Only if whole swathes of Wallaby wingers were injured would he have a chance to play, and only then as a fill-in.
Vuna still has problems adapting to rugby union but is of a different order of quality. He’s not superman, but he is far above the average standard Shipperley represents. Shipperley is average: just live with it and try and accept that a player is not special simply because he plays for the Reds.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:06am
Hoy said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:06am | Report comment
Maybe accept Vuna is ordinary as well. Promise doesn’t always get realised.
Shipperly although you think he lacks the creative spark of Vuna, has a lot more rugby nous than Vuna at the moment. So Vuna shouldn’t be picked ahead of Shipperly until he learns rugby nous… this means to tackle and read attacks to put him in better positions to make tackles.
Shipperly has represented Australia at schoolboys, 7s and under 20s. Can’t be too average, and if he is average, I think other average players like Horne, Vuna etc, seem to be given cake walks into the Wallaby set up.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:11am
Terry Tavita said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:11am | Report comment
shipperly is like joe roth..not particularly super fast or super talented but knows how to score tries..Vuna is a million dollar talent with a five cent brain..
July 15th 2012 @ 8:13am
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:13am | Report comment
Hoy Vuna is not ordinary, but you seem to forget you’re judging a rugby league convert with no rugby background. It’s not a question of fulfilling promise, but of eliminating adjustment issues.
Shipperley is a decent Super rugby player but would be below average for Wallabies level. Vuna may not manage to eliminate his adjustment issues or he may, but in either case he has more natural ability than Shipperley.
Ridiculous praise of Shipperley is just a perverse case of factionalism here, and Red Kev will claim any Reds player should start for the Wallabies just as some Waratahs fans will do about many Waratahs players who shouldn’t.
Tom Carter should never play for the Wallabies nor should Shipperley: I agree that Horne shouldn’t be playing but happens to play in the weakest position in Australia for several years, whereas wing is one of the strongest.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:24am
mikeylives said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:24am | Report comment
Roth?? Roff was deceptively quick (like Larkam) and had insane running lines and timing.
Shipperly is one of the quickest players in the comp (also deceptively quick). Think he is quicker than Vuna. It looks like he will get bigger.
Vuna has a Looooooong way to go before he can make a legitimate claim as a wallaby. Talent means squat when you leak 3 tries in a match. His defence is a massive liability and he needs to improve his roving/involvements rather than camping on the sideline.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:59am
Red Kev said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:59am | Report comment
I did not say he.should start, I said he was miles ahead of Vuna for a Wallabies wing spot. His selection for the last internationals was a disgrace.
Shipperley is a fast winger who scores tries and doesn’t make mistakes. Idiot selectors can go for flashy highlight reel players like.Vuna (who features more for the opposition than.this own team in highlights), but smarter selectors will.pick the better player rather than some guy who might make a tackle bust.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:39am
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:39am | Report comment
Vuna is not ready for international rugby. He is not even a standout in the Rebels side. He is a strong ball carrier and little else. Look at Robbie Fruean, he is leaps and bounds more developed then Vuna and even he is not ready for international rugby yet. Vuna’s selection was a case of not having better options, he did not deserve to make the Wallaby squad on merit.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:44am
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Kuruki the point is that Vuna has international level talent, while Shipperley doesn’t. That doesn’t mean Vuna’s ready for the Wallabies, but that has the kind of natural talent to play for them. Shipperley does not have the required level of natural talent.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:21am
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:21am | Report comment
Shipperley may be fast but so are countless wings at club rugby level. Speed is not what separates one player from another at professional level.
He should never have been chosen. Vuna’s selection was not a disgrace: his defence may not have been ready but at least he had the talent to be there while Shipperley would never have done: being just fast is not enough.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:46am
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
KPM that’s is the thing mate, Vuna does not possess international level talent. For a winger, he is not a great kicker, he is not great under the highball, he is very poor on defence, and he is still learning how to read a game and position himself correctly on the paddock.
The only thing Vuna possess that is of international quality is his carry. Everything else is below standard, he is not yet ready, he has potential but he will be a massive liability in the Rugby championship and every Kiwi in NZ will be hoping he gets the nod, for our sake. Natural talent is a building block, but that product is completed at international level it does not start their.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:54am
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:54am | Report comment
Kuruki you’re not taking into account that he is a rugby league convert with NO rugby background. That means he is learning a sport and so is not yet capable of showing his best self.
He manifestly has the talent: just look at him in attack: defense he will learn but hasn’t yet because he is a rugby league convert.
July 15th 2012 @ 11:41am
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:41am | Report comment
I am taking all of that into account, and to be honest he should be a bit further developed in some of his basic skills then he is, considering the fact.
What is talent?. Talented at what?. Cooper V has natural strength and decent speed. Talent to me is the skill level he has in the game, the ability to do things with the ball and use his natural strength to his advantage on the paddock. He ticks one of those boxes and that’s all.
i hardly see how that makes him more talented then Shipperly who is faster. Why is Shipperly’s speed not as equal in your eyes as Vuna’s strength?.
July 15th 2012 @ 11:46am
formeropenside said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Let me see – this is the same Shipperley who has scored 8 tries in the season, and scored a try last night against Australia’s “premier” team. His quick thinking and skilful play also saved a try by kicking through as Alcock was about to touch down.
That’s more of a performance than anyone in the Waratahs, including TPN, both Timani’s, and the absent injured Kepu and Palu – which I only bring up to point out how robust Shipperley is, having played every minute of every game this season.
He should be a Wallaby winger along with Ioane.
If if will help you feel better, I can look around for some islander ancesty for Ships.
July 15th 2012 @ 12:12pm
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
Absurd: Palu and TPN put in three tremendous performances each against a good international team while Shipperley ran in some tries most of which any half-decent professional wing could have scored. Ridiculous comparison.
I don’t see playing differences in the divisions between islander and non-islander that seem to interest you.
He should never in a million years be seen for the Wallabies.
July 15th 2012 @ 12:36pm
jeznez said | July 15th 2012 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
Assuming everyone is fit and that Beale/Cooper/Barnes/McCabe/Tapuai/Faingaa/Horne have 10, 12, 13 and 15 covered between them then our best wingers are Ioane, JOC and AAC.
Behind those guys you have blokes like Mitchell and Turner who are yet to demonstrate they can get back to form as they come back from injury so I would not include those two in the RC squad at this stage.
The next wingers are Tomane, Shipperly and Cummins for mine.
Given all the names above Vuna just doesn’t warrant being in the squad until he fixes some of the very obvious flaws he has.
July 15th 2012 @ 2:38pm
Uncle Argyle said | July 15th 2012 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
KPM,
Shipperly is above average and outside of Digby was the next best winger on the park. Its no fluke he has scored as many tries as he has this season. Here is some news for you; THE REDS ARE IN THE FINALS AGAIN AND DOM SHIPPERLY HAS HAD PLENTY TO DO WITH THAT. THAT IS NOT AVERAGE SO STOP FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP PUTTING THE BLOKE DOWN WHEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN HE PROVES NAYSAYERS LIKE YOU WRONG!
July 15th 2012 @ 4:33pm
Cattledog said | July 15th 2012 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
Amen Uncle! But I doubt that will shut him up.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:06pm
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:06pm | Report comment
UA and Cattledog dream on, as Obama said you can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig, the Reds may be in the finals but Shipperley is still average.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:36pm
Cattledog said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:36pm | Report comment
You see, Uncle, told you it wouldn’t shut him up. Point out the facts and suddenly we’re dreamers and Ships is still average. Not much else can be done, I’m afraid.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:07pm
AJ said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:07pm | Report comment
Agree with that Kev.
Shipperley is streets ahead of Vuna.He outplayed him twice this season. Shipperley has plenty of time but he should’ve played for the wallabies already.
Vuna is a joke! As is Deans and his growing list of selection howlers!
By the way, similar to Roff, Shipperley is an academic fellow who went to Nudgee on an academic scholarship and played in the first xv for three years and was Dux of the college. Even better news is reports that his little brother currently at Nudgee is even better.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:41pm
Cattledog said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:41pm | Report comment
Sounds like the backs version of a Nathan Sharpe, except TSS rather than Nudgee. Still love getting to the GPS games when I can as it’s such pure high octane rugby at 1st XV level.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:59am
Terry Tavita said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:59am | Report comment
brumbies need more polynesians in their team..those big samoans and tongans for the blues absolutely monstered them up front..
July 15th 2012 @ 3:05pm
bluerose said | July 15th 2012 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
they dont need more polynesians, they just need to be smarter, you dont need to be polynesian to be tough, toughness comes from attitude and the will to compete
July 15th 2012 @ 6:18pm
Terry Tavita said | July 15th 2012 @ 6:18pm | Report comment
there’s half a dozen sonny bill williams running around under the coconut trees in samoa..
July 16th 2012 @ 3:27am
bluerose said | July 16th 2012 @ 3:27am | Report comment
let them represent Samoa, it will be good for Samoan rugby if there local players do represent them.
July 16th 2012 @ 8:42am
jarmen said | July 16th 2012 @ 8:42am | Report comment
You do realize Sonny Bill was born in NZ never lived in Samoa and is half caucasian, maybe his build can be attributed to both cultures Terry. I’m not trying to be provocative just raising a question. If it was down to his Samoan heritage I would expect those kids running around the Islands if given the resources to be much much better potentially
July 15th 2012 @ 10:10am
MR said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:10am | Report comment
What a pity two local darbies:
Chiefs vs Crusaders &
Stormers vs Bulls
would have been much better than:
Chiefs vs Bulls &
Stormers vs Crusaders
Good to see Aus fighting over lowest qualifier (58 pts)
July 16th 2012 @ 12:47am
Spencer said | July 16th 2012 @ 12:47am | Report comment
…and which planet have you been hiding on for the past two years.
July 16th 2012 @ 1:42pm
MR said | July 16th 2012 @ 1:42pm | Report comment
Think I need to change my tag- there seems to be two of me running around & one of me is a tad rude.
July 16th 2012 @ 1:47pm
Cattledog said | July 16th 2012 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
LOL
July 15th 2012 @ 7:51am
Hoy said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:51am | Report comment
I agree with you in part KPM about the world cup not really being an indication of worlds best, in that teams advance without playing other top teams, but there are only what? 7 World Cup winning coaches kicking about. You can comfotably put it on your CV without feeling any guilt I think.
In regards to Cooper, I don’t know what will happen. Safe to say I agree with what others have said, the turn around in the Reds occured when he came back. Prior to that, they looked sluggish at best. People called for a defensive capable Cooper. He has certainly answered critics in his comeback I think. He dominated contact a few times last night, Barnes excluded. I was behind it at the ground, so couldn’t see how bad it was, and they didn’t show too many replays in good angles to see it properly.
Go the Reds.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:55am
Hoy said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:55am | Report comment
Found it. Hmmm… Don’t know how that will play out.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:44am
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:44am | Report comment
After watching it again i would suggest one week in the current situation would be ok. Two weeks or more would be harsh. I wont be surprised if Barnes comes out in defence of Cooper. If he is let off then they have set the standard pretty low for next year.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:51am
RebelRanger said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:51am | Report comment
I don’t like Quade so not sure if I’m being biased but that was clearly high. Barnes was not falling as some people were saying, Cooper clearly aimed up and even had his arm around the neck area towards the end.
In saying that, I want him in the finals lest the Reds from earlier this season show up.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:58am
nickoldschool said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:58am | Report comment
Cooper doesn’t really move his arm forward it’s more Barnes who gets stuck into it imo. There is nothing really, penalty/yellow card at most. If he gets one week for that it means SR has gone very soft.
Then there is the question of consistency through the year but thats another story and i think the Reds already paid the price when Ioane was done for 5 weeks earlier this year.
July 15th 2012 @ 11:02am
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:02am | Report comment
At the end of the day it was a cheap shot by a regular cheap shot merchant. He should get a week, especially considering Barnes previous record with head knocks and the fact that allowing him to get off would reek of weakness when the entire Barnes type scenario is exactly why they are so strict on a high shot. At worst scenario it could have ended Barnes career with his record.
July 15th 2012 @ 11:17am
Terry Tavita said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:17am | Report comment
yea, he should have just let barnes slip through..
July 15th 2012 @ 11:23am
Jarmen said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Absolutely agree Kuruki, QC must be suspended as it will set a dangerous precedent and make an absolute mockery of some of the other suspensions handed down this year.
Will it happen highly unlikely as the judiciary is always hesitant to suspend anyone in finals weeks. Also someone as pivotal to a teams cause as QC will just result in Roars of injustice by Reds fans.
The biggest injustice this season is how the Reds can get home ground advantage when they are the lowest overall qualifier and having lost to all three teams Bulls, Sharks and Crusaders who are now ranked below them although finishing on more points.
The Reds deserve to be in the 6 no arguments there, however they do not deserve home ground advantage over their rivals. The finished on less points and the lost to all three of the teams above them who now have to take a step down the ladder to accommodate the winner of a weak conference.
Once again the Australian conference winners benefit from a weak pool.
Its debatable the top six teams are even in the 6 this year, IMO the Hurricanes are above the Reds
July 15th 2012 @ 11:34am
RebelRanger said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:34am | Report comment
Watching that link provided by Hoy. You can see that at 24 seconds Cooper makes contact with his deltoid part of his shoulder to Barnes head while his arm is wrapped around his neck. Not that Cooper makes initial contact and then Barnes falls into his arm. Furthermore looking at Coopers body angle, he does not make any attempt to bend down and hit hum below the neck.
If it gets less than 2-3 weeks, I will expect consistency. Manu Samoa will be licking their lips. I daresay Brian Lima might make a comeback.
July 15th 2012 @ 11:48am
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:48am | Report comment
No Terry he should have tackled him correctly and within the laws of the game., like everyone else managed to do.
July 15th 2012 @ 11:59am
Terry Tavita said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:59am | Report comment
cry me a river mate..this is rugby..
July 15th 2012 @ 12:04pm
jackofpaddo said | July 15th 2012 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
Obviously it was Barrick’s fault, he ran into Cooper’s arm, he should have been looking where he is going.Then again, Cooper deserves at least 6 months for just plain laziness and stupidity and should be sent on a course to learn how to tackle. Maybe he thought he was able to learn how to tackle on an app on his mobile.
July 15th 2012 @ 12:20pm
RebelRanger said | July 15th 2012 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
Your right Terry. It’s rugby. Not MMA. Keep the tackles down.
July 15th 2012 @ 1:19pm
Cattledog said | July 15th 2012 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
Thought you Kiwis were over it. Obviously not.
July 15th 2012 @ 6:12pm
sheek said | July 15th 2012 @ 6:12pm | Report comment
For heaven’s sake, how dumb was that!
The head high tackle occurred when the scoreline was 29-11, not 29-18. The game was won, & Cooper merely demonstrated his imbecility just one more time……….
July 16th 2012 @ 9:31am
Albo said | July 16th 2012 @ 9:31am | Report comment
If you look at 23 seconds you’ll see Barnes drop his height quite considerably (his knees bent at 90 degrees in a pseudo squat). Quade does his best to get low but not low enough in the time given.
I’m not Quade or Reds fan but Barnes did lower himself into the hit. I think it should stop at the yellow.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:59am
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:59am | Report comment
Hoy well you can in a way, but winning that RWC was a walkover. It’s no suprise SA were not number one in the world and avoiding the other two top seeded teams means the win doesn’t mean much.
White really didn’t do that well as South Africa coach. It’s not to say he wouldn’t have developed the team well had he stayed, but by major point is that he is elevated too far as a coach because he won the World Cup, when in fact that was easy in that particular case.
July 15th 2012 @ 2:53pm
Wally James said | July 15th 2012 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
Cooper has been attempting to improve his defence since he came back from injury. In the last two games he made tackles he would not have even tried last year. Good on him for that.
It seem fairly clear he is becoming more aggressive in defence. Unfortunately that agression was misplaced in poor technique. The fact of the matter is, if you aim at a players hips with your shoulders, you will never hit them in the head with your arm. My prediction is one week, may be two. Any less and the wrong message is sent. That sort of attempt at tackle must be punished.
My worry is that everything Cooper does is either exceptionally fabulous or incredibly stupid. Stolen laptops, breaks and enters, clipping McCaw on the back of the head with knee or hand, creating a tweet storm at RWC time and, now, leaving your team in the lurch one man down at finals time. Even if he is not suspended, the furore of the judiciary is unsettling for a team.
Thank heaven Beale and Brand O’Connor are in favour at Wallaby level.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:22pm
Jerry said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:22pm | Report comment
There’s actually only 6 WC winning coaches kicking about – Kitch Christie is dead.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:03am
Bakkies said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:03am | Report comment
As disappointed as I am about the poor performance a lot of the players are in their first season of Super Rugby. You won’t see the Brumbies drop that many home games again in a successful season.
Cooper the most creative player in the pro era? Not a chance. Cooper still isn’t fit to lace Steve Larkham’s boots. He hasn’t really achieved anything with the Wallabies yet either. The Wallabies won Tri Nations, Bledisloe Cups, RWC and the Lions Series with Larkham’s creativity. I would put him behind Carlos Spencer who was absolutely lethal on his day.
People like Red Kev are the reason why I will be supporting the Sharks next week.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:10am
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:10am | Report comment
Bakkies Larkham and Spencer were obviously tremendous on their day, but Cooper’s visionary long-range passing and ability to create dimensions of space all over the field seem to me unrivalled. I’m not saying for a moment he’s the better player than anyone else by the way, but am solely referring to his creativity.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:36am
Bakkies said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
”but Cooper’s visionary long-range passing and ability to create dimensions of space all over the field seem to me unrivalled.”
And Larkham and Spencer didn’t have long range passing and ability to create space? Cooper hasn’t done enough of it in test Rugby in my opinion.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:52am
atlas said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:52am | Report comment
yet the stats Cooper v Spencer – - Cooper 35 tests 68 points (6 tries), less than 2 per match.
Spencer also 35 tests, 295 points (14 tries).
One a pretender, surely. Still has a long way to go
July 15th 2012 @ 10:56am
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:56am | Report comment
atlas you may also notice that those two are playing in rather different teams…..not so hard to score 14 tries with the best backline in professional history outside you and behind a tremendous pack.
July 15th 2012 @ 12:08pm
Jerry said | July 15th 2012 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Because a backline with Ioane, O’Connor, Genia & Beale is obviously crap.
July 15th 2012 @ 12:13pm
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
Well, compared to the All Black backline Spencer had yes. He had at least three of the best players in their positions in the professional era.
In any case he was playing behind a superb pack, not a paperweight one.
July 15th 2012 @ 2:43pm
atlas said | July 15th 2012 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
not hugely different in terms of being on winning sides, Spencer 78% Cooper 70%.
And wouldn’t Spencer at 10 have scored tries inside rather than outside that ‘best backline’?
July 15th 2012 @ 7:42pm
Ash said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:42pm | Report comment
The best backline from the 2003 world cup that Spencer was involved in?
July 15th 2012 @ 8:21pm
Dingobob said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:21pm | Report comment
If they were that good they would of won a world cup
July 15th 2012 @ 8:28pm
Jerry said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:28pm | Report comment
Dingo – when has a backline ever won anyone a WC? Aus didn’t have the pack to win last year.
July 15th 2012 @ 1:25pm
Rob from Brumby Country said | July 15th 2012 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
I don’t think you can compare flyhalves like that, they all have different temperaments and skillsets.
For mine, Dan Carter and Stephen Larkham (followed by Andrew Mehrtens) are the most complete flyhalves I’ve ever seen play the game as they balance their vision and ‘creativity’ (which I define as the ability to ‘create’ something special out of an innocuous-looking play) against the necessity of prudence, i.e. knowing when to kick for territory or utilise the forwards to soak up metres. Quade Cooper has not enough of the latter, while Berrick Barnes has a little too much.
And that’s just to talk about skillsets and say nothing about temperament. Some flyhalves are made of an absolutely steely temperament (controversially, I’d probably nominate Matt Giteau as the grittiest I’ve ever seen), while others still have a tendency to melt under pressure. I’m not convinced that Quade has a good temperament for Test rugby, but that could change.
July 15th 2012 @ 6:06pm
Terry Tavita said | July 15th 2012 @ 6:06pm | Report comment
larkham was smooth as..pleasure to watch him glide through holes..don’t think there will ever be another flyhalf with such finesse..
July 15th 2012 @ 12:23pm
jeznez said | July 15th 2012 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
KPM – “Losing this match is a significant failure, given how well the team played for the rest of the year”
Are you buying DL’s line? – “for the Brumbies to turn in their only poor performance of the season”
The Brumbies weren’t particularly good last week against the Tahs, what about the absolute dross they delivered in the opening game of the season against the Force? What about the big helping hand they got from the ref in the closing minutes of the Cheetahs game?
I’ve heard Brumbies fans boo their team for kicking in at least three matches this year and it happened again last night. I always find it hilarious when I hear those boos knowing that because it isn’t a Sydney crowd booing the Tahs that it will be ignored by all commentators/Roarers.
I like the Brumbies and think they have performed massively above expectation this year but to suggest that last night was the only poor performance of the season as DL has is ridiculous.
KPM, apologies if your comment wasn’t supporting DL’s and only pointing at many of the high points they have had through the season and good performances they’ve had.
That Hurricanes game in particular stands out as a cracking effort by the entire team and showed a lot of character to come back in a game I thought they were out of.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:13pm
Rob from Brumby Country said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:13pm | Report comment
You have to admit, Jez, taking shots at goal from 40m when down by fourteen points is a little bit more than just being unambitious. It was soft, stupid, and cynical. I’d never condone booing the home side, but I can certainly understand why there was not much sympathy for the choices they made.
July 16th 2012 @ 12:11am
jeznez said | July 16th 2012 @ 12:11am | Report comment
Rob, I’m a Tah fan – of course I endorse booing your own team!!!!!!
July 16th 2012 @ 12:59am
the 3rd hokage said | July 16th 2012 @ 12:59am | Report comment
playing in the aussie conference helped out white a lot, 10 wins and 6 of them from australian teams force 14th, rebels 13th, waratahs11th. on top of that another two wins was courtesy SA two weakest teams, lions 15th and cheetahs 10th. the only two victories of any note were against the hurricanes and highlanders, but the real game breaker was the fact the brumbies didnt play the crusaders or the stormers.
jake white and the brumbies are below average and current format is flawed as the victories i mentioned still almost got them to No3 of the table.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:20am
ben said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:20am | Report comment
It would be truly ridiculous for Cooper to be suspended for that tackle. Rugby cant be that soft. It was a penalty and that should have been the end of it. I dont understand the yellow card.A suspension would be a joke.
Go Reds……..Should dispose of the sharks at suncorp comfortably.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:46am
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:46am | Report comment
I would have been interested to hear your opinion had that been Ma’a Nonu.
July 15th 2012 @ 11:04am
Morgan said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
Agree. One only needs to watch the Stormers v Rebels and the Sharks v Cheetahs matches last night to see at least three tackles as high as Cooper’s that weren’t even carded, simply penalized or in one case, nothing – play on. It shouldn’t have even been a yellow card, so it certainly won’t be a suspension. As for setting a low standard of judiciary for next year, that is silly. The judiciary has zero respect from the rugby community already for its inconsistency and bias. I believe its the reverse, if they do suspend Cooper it will bring them further into disrupute and starve SANZAR’s finals of representation from all three countries.
Yes, the Reds WILL beat the Sharks at Suncorp with Cooper. Without him, the game is anyone’s. If what you say is correct, the Reds have a great finals draw – managing to avoid the Chiefs and Crusaders until the end. Playing the Sharks at home then the Stormers in Cape Town is a terrific result. With Cooper I think the Reds can make the Final (againist either the Chiefs or Crusaders). Is this the correct path?
July 15th 2012 @ 11:54am
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:54am | Report comment
If the Crusaders beat the Bulls and the Reds beat the Sharks, the Reds go to Hamilton.
July 15th 2012 @ 12:26pm
jeznez said | July 15th 2012 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
Morgan – I agree that a suspension doesn’t seem right to me. I’m a Tahs fan and though at the time the yellow card seemed correct. There were certainly a few high shots in those later games not penalised as harshly.
Kuruki is correct, if the Reds beat the Sharks they go to Hamilton.
July 15th 2012 @ 2:16pm
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
But if you consider Barnes could have probably been ruled out next week had the Tahs been alive a yellow card would be pretty soft. Considering the Yellow card Ben May received in such a crucial game for doing absolutely nothing wrong imo. If you wanna talk about harsh Cooper deserves a life sentence compared to that.
July 15th 2012 @ 2:58pm
jeznez said | July 15th 2012 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
Kuruki, I stayed up to watch the Stormers v Rebels and Sharks v Cheetahs. There were a few penalties in those games for high tackles but no cards – I didn’t think while watching them that the tackles were any less serious than Cooper’s effort.
Didn’t catch the Canes v Chiefs but have heard a few people say May was treated unfairly.
July 15th 2012 @ 3:08pm
PeterK said | July 15th 2012 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
You cannot take into account the offence has on a player.
If it wasnt Barnes but another player he would not have come off.
Yellow card is sufficient. How many players have been suspended this year for head high tackles? How many carded? 0 and a few, hence in terms of consistency he should not be suspended.
July 15th 2012 @ 3:20pm
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
I understand what you are saying but imo it is made more difficult because Barnes is probably the perfect example of why high tackles are outlawed in the game. Now weather they should or not, they will be very much aware of Barnes situation and also very much aware that the spotlight will be on them to get this call right. it’s unfortunate for the Reds but Cooper picked the worst target imaginable and it would be very surprising if they let him off considering the ramifications of what could have happened to Barnes career. They either make a statement or they fold and discredit thee whole approach to the protection of players that they harp on about over and over.
And PeterK they do most definitely take into account the injury suffered by the victim. I have seen many punches thrown and connected in Rugby getting a week or maybe two, Rua Tipoki broke/fractured a guys jaw with a punch and that got him something like 10 weeks in comparison by memory. So i think it will come into consideration.
July 15th 2012 @ 4:26pm
IronAwe said | July 15th 2012 @ 4:26pm | Report comment
I don’t think Cooper deserves suspension et al. A lot of the suspensions this season have been a joke. Rugby needs to harden up.
July 15th 2012 @ 6:39pm
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 6:39pm | Report comment
Yes i agree Rugby needs to harden up in a few areas. A good start would be to bring back rucking. Also change the interpretation on what constitutes a shoulder charge. I don’t think you would find any player who wished the head high rule was more relaxed though.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:20am
Short-Blind said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:20am | Report comment
Great job Reds – if they can keep QC on the field they will beat the Sharks at home and the Stormers in Capetown (they were awful last night struggling to beat a rebels side without JOC or KB). Hey then all they have to do is beat the Crusaders at home again – done that before. That should piss a few people off!
July 15th 2012 @ 7:35am
Jeff said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:35am | Report comment
It was interesting watching Steve Walsh referee this game last night.He is rated our top referee but he is a kiwi.Last year our top rated Australian referee was Stuart Dickinson a somewhat controversial referee.I can remember many incensed Australian players at some of his more bizarre decisions.
He failed to be selected for the World Cup last year [correctly in my opinion]and immediately retired.For the first time there was no Australian referees at a world cup.There was a time not so long ago that our referees were considered the best in the world.
My question to the ARU is.
What are they doing about the standard of Australian refereeing and coaching.We seem to have slipped back in these areas to an alarming extent.Our top rated referee is a Kiwi,the Wallaby coach is a kiwi,one of our super 16 sides is coached by a South African and apart from McKenzie none of our top coaches [or referees] would rank highly on a world scale.
Of course we all know what Frank O’Keeffe would do to solve matters.
He would sack Robbie Deans.
The other consequence of the result of this game is that the team with lowest points in the top six has won the Australian Conference [the easiest of the 3 Conferences] and has a guaranteed home semi .
This is a travesty and something must be done by Sanzar to correct these distortions.We could even in future have the bizarre result that a team that finishes 6th on points could miss out in a place in the top 6 to a Conference winner.If the Hurricanes had managed a win in their very close game this year they would have finished ahead of the Reds.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:49am
justsaying said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:49am | Report comment
As has been pointed out on other threads the Reds actually did win more games than the teams they are now ranked above, so in that sense I don’t think it’s that unfair in this particular case. However that’s just a happy fluke – you are right that sooner or later the conference format is going to throw up an epically unfair result.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:58am
Jeff said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:58am | Report comment
So what you are saying is it is the number of wins that should count and not bonus points.
So should we scrap the bonus points ?
You can’t have it both ways.Teams currently take risks to get bonus points [which is the reason for having them] and therefore the only relevant detail should be a team’s total points.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:23am
justsaying said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:23am | Report comment
I’d either scrap bonus points or use them as a tie-breaker for teams on equal wins…
July 15th 2012 @ 9:48am
kos1nsk1 said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
Agree with the latter use of bonus points
July 15th 2012 @ 10:10am
Bakkies said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:10am | Report comment
In previous Super Rugby seasons the Brumbies would of gone through based on for and against regardless of having less wins. Reading the posts on various forums from obnoxious fans they seem to like gloating about the Reds having more wins conveniently forgetting that the Brumbies have missed out on the finals on more than one occasion having more wins than the teams above them and the Reds wooden spoons (and having 92 points put on them).
July 15th 2012 @ 10:50am
PeterK said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:50am | Report comment
it has always been wrong for a team with more wins to miss out. This is where the bonus points system is wrong.
They should double the points for a win to 8 and a draw to 4 then bonus points will be more like a tie breaker.
July 15th 2012 @ 4:39pm
Rob from Brumby Country said | July 15th 2012 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
I really can’t understand the beef against bonus points. You have to score sixteen tries in four games to rack up an equivalent amount to a win, so it’s not like they are trumping victories. Maybe the lose by seven or less bonus point is a bit soft, but I cannot think of any instances of a team making the finals off the back of those bonus points while a team with several more wins has been excluded.
I will be very disappointed if we scrap or undermine the four-try bonus point system. The Aussie teams need a lot of encouragement to play running rugby as it is.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:25pm
Bakkies said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:25pm | Report comment
Actually I prefer the French bonus points system. You get a bonus point for scoring 3 tries more than the opposition. If you already have three tries and the opposition has scored one you won’t get the bonus point. This encourages teams to try and go for more tries to keep the bonus point and to not leak tries at the other end. It rewards teams for 80 minute performances. The four try bp system doesn’t.
July 15th 2012 @ 5:49pm
biltongbek said | July 15th 2012 @ 5:49pm | Report comment
You seem to forget the easy wins the Reds got in the Australian conference aided to their “superior” wins
July 15th 2012 @ 5:53pm
PeterK said | July 15th 2012 @ 5:53pm | Report comment
yes the easy wins like the 2 against the brumbies.
July 15th 2012 @ 6:02pm
Terry Tavita said | July 15th 2012 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
if it wasn’t for bonus points you wouldn’t have had that reds-tahs blinder last night..it would’ve been a dour kick fest..keep it, keeps the comp entertaining
July 15th 2012 @ 7:03pm
biltongbek said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:03pm | Report comment
Peter, don’t act up mate, you know what I am talking about, Tahs, Rebels and Force.
July 15th 2012 @ 7:44pm
Ash said | July 15th 2012 @ 7:44pm | Report comment
They actually got flogged by the Force in one game this year.
July 15th 2012 @ 11:26am
Jarmen said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:26am | Report comment
The biggest injustice this season is how the Reds can get home ground advantage when they are the lowest overall qualifier and having lost to all three Sharks, Bulls and Crusaders who are now ranked below them although finishing on more points.
The Reds deserve to be in the 6, however they do not deserve home ground advantage over their rivals. The finished on less points and the lost to three of the teams above them who now have to take a step down the ladder to accommodate the winner of a weak conference.
Once again the Australian conference winners benefit from a weak pool.
Then again a little contradictory to my above statement but it is debatable the top six teams are even in the 6 this year, IMO the Hurricanes are above the Reds
July 15th 2012 @ 12:13pm
Red Kev said | July 15th 2012 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
Until you posted that the Hurricanes.are above the Reds that was a sensible post.
July 15th 2012 @ 3:11pm
PeterK said | July 15th 2012 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
Jarmen you contradict your self ie Reds deserve to be in the 6 but then say how Canes are above them.
You also do not note that the Reds beat the chiefs who are above them.
July 16th 2012 @ 2:15am
ben said | July 16th 2012 @ 2:15am | Report comment
I like the conference system, a lot of US sports have it. However i do hear your complaint, i would simply extend the top 6 to top 8. It wont effect the schedule at all as 1&2 would play 7&8, instead of having a bye. It is important for financial reasons to ensure a finalist from each conference.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:03am
Terry Tavita said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:03am | Report comment
Final – Reds vs Crusaders in Christchuch..
July 15th 2012 @ 8:17am
Rob from Brumby Country said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:17am | Report comment
Terry, that can’t happen. As conference leaders, the Reds technically finished higher than the Crusaders, so it would have to be at Suncorp. You can thank the conference system for that gem.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:20am
Terry Tavita said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:20am | Report comment
David Lord says..
“The 2012 Super Rugby championship final will be between the two winners of the semis at the home ground of the franchise with the most tournament points after the regular season.”
July 15th 2012 @ 8:27am
justsaying said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:27am | Report comment
From the SANZAR site:
3.5.2
Six teams will qualify for the Finals Series at the conclusion of the Regular Season as follows:
a) Conference Winners: the team in each of the AC, NZC and SAC with the highest number of competition points will be the Conference Winner for the respective Conference and will qualify for the Finals Series.
The three Conference Winners will receive a Finals Series Ranking as follows:
(i) The team with the highest number of competition points will have a Finals Series Ranking of 1;
(ii)The team with the second highest number of competition points will have a Finals Series Ranking of 2;
(iii) The team with the third highest number of competition points will have a Finals Series Ranking of 3.
b) Wildcard Teams: the remaining three Finals Series places will be allocated to the three non-Conference Winning teams with the highest number of Super Rugby table competition points regardless of the Conference in which the team plays. The three Wildcard Teams will receive a Finals Series Ranking as follows:
(i) The team with the highest number of competition points will have a Finals Series Ranking of 4;
(ii)The team with the second highest number of competition points will have a Finals Series Ranking of 5;
(iii) The team with the third highest number of competition points will have a Finals Series Ranking of 6.
3.6 Super Rugby Finals Series
3.6.1 The Super Rugby Finals Series will be played over three weeks and involve six matches in the following format:
Super Rugby Qualifiers (Week One)
Match A – Rank 4 v Rank 5
Match B – Rank 3 v Rank 6
Super Rugby Semi-Finals (Week Two)
Match C – Rank 2 v Winner of matches A or B with highest finals ranking
Match D – Rank 1 v Other winner from matches A or B
Super Rugby Finals (Week Three)
Match E – Winner of matches C or D with highest finals ranking v other winner from
matches C or D
Clear as mud?
July 15th 2012 @ 8:36am
Rob from Brumby Country said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:36am | Report comment
So… Suncorp, yes?
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. This system is idiotic.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:37am
Terry Tavita said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:37am | Report comment
hmmm..so if its a reds-saders final, where’s the venue?
July 15th 2012 @ 8:53am
justsaying said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:53am | Report comment
You know what? I can’t find that info anywhere! Whoops…
July 15th 2012 @ 9:52am
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Suncorp The reds are the higher ranked side due to being conference winner.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:55am
justsaying said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:55am | Report comment
That’s what I think too – I just can’t find anything official where it says that in black and white. For some reason SANZAR hasn’t published the full Super Rugby Manual online, at least nowhere I can see…
July 15th 2012 @ 10:14am
roarr said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:14am | Report comment
Suncorp, they have a higher finals ranking
July 15th 2012 @ 12:10pm
jeznez said | July 15th 2012 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
justsaying – those rules you posted are clear as day. as a couple of folks above posted a Reds v Crusaders final would be played at Suncorp.
The Reds have a Finals Rank of 3, if they win match B then they play match C against the Chiefs in Hamilton.
If the Reds win match C then they play the final which is match E either in Capetown vs the Stormers or at Suncorp vs the Crusaders or Bulls.
July 15th 2012 @ 2:50pm
Brett McKay said | July 15th 2012 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
Justsaying, the SR media guide makes it nice and simple: ” Highest ranked winner from Semi-Final matches – Home venue”
July 15th 2012 @ 3:32pm
Nick said | July 15th 2012 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
Crazy system. The winners of the weakest conference (reds) would host a final against a team from a far tougher conference (crusaders) who also scored more league points than them.
Ridiculous. The Aussie sides had won 12 games against SA and nz sides this year by this weekend, nz sides won 28 and SA sides 22 against their inter conference rivals.
Totally biased system
July 15th 2012 @ 4:53pm
Rob from Brumby Country said | July 15th 2012 @ 4:53pm | Report comment
I agree, Nick. There was really nothing wrong with the old system, and they decided to fix what wasn’t broken.
Go back to the old system, say I. Even if people say we benefited by it, I still feel cheated that we didn’t get to play the Crusaders this year. That fixture is one that I’ve always looked forward to, even on those occasions where we got soundly thrashed. The Crusaders are just such a great team to watch, definitely my favourite non-Canberran team!
July 15th 2012 @ 6:10pm
Terry Tavita said | July 15th 2012 @ 6:10pm | Report comment
they didn’t fix it..they improved it..you don’t wait for things to break down to apply the spanners..bring on finals rugby..go reds!
July 15th 2012 @ 10:00pm
Cattledog said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:00pm | Report comment
Rob, you’re starting to sound like a broken record. The Brumbies had it in the bag and dropped their bundle. The Reds proved their worth well and truly against a team who were unlucky not to knock the Brumbies off the week before. Give it up on this Conference crap.
Nick, I know your traumatised by the Reds win but really, since the conference is so weak you have nothing to fear. I pointed out how the Reds will come to grief by one of the big, bad SA or Kiwi bullies in a week or two. After all, they are so much stronger. Take a chill pill, mate.
July 15th 2012 @ 11:47pm
MR said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:47pm | Report comment
I like home conference winner idea (as brings in crowd) but would be nice if quarter finals reflected points ie if refs won then they would be treated as bottom qualifier not 3rd (which is crazy)
July 15th 2012 @ 10:50am
KiwiDave said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Seems everyone is writing off the Chiefs already. Why? They will beat the Reds at home.
July 15th 2012 @ 11:05am
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:05am | Report comment
Will the Reds beat the Sharks with no Cooper?
July 15th 2012 @ 12:14pm
jeznez said | July 15th 2012 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
Who has written them off? I only see dreamers dreaming the dream and asking questions about what happens if their team beats the Sharks and then can beat the Chiefs.
I haven’t read all the posts in detail so apologies if some supporters are beating their chests prematurely.
Based in the match played between those two sides during the season I think it will be a cracker and hard to tip. Reds still have to get past the Sharks first though.
July 15th 2012 @ 1:08pm
steve.h said | July 15th 2012 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
Sounds like everyone has written off the Sharks too.
July 15th 2012 @ 1:34pm
Cattledog said | July 15th 2012 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
Why don’t you post with some objectivity, Dave? Haven’t you learnt from your earlier incorrect posts?
July 15th 2012 @ 8:04am
Uncle Argyle said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:04am | Report comment
I am loathed to discuss the Quade Cooper tackle much further than I think 10 minutes in the bin was appropriate but I dont expect the NZ and SA element of SANZAR to see it the same. I think Quade will be rubbed out for the remainder fo the series to ensure the Reds don’t go any further in the tournament.
Greg Holmes – outplayed Ben Robinson in every department last night but Robinson will still be in the Australian squad whilst Holmes will be running around for Sunnybank. Paddy Ryan had a holiday after 55 minutes and had it all over Daley that effected the Reds scrum. Ryan also lifted his game around the park. Tell me Greg Holmes is not a good loose head?
Did anyone else notice Michael Foley has Gillardesque type earlobes. They appear to be heading in the same direction next time their jobs are under review and their polling about the same.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:11am
Hoy said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:11am | Report comment
Holmes has been an underrated and overlooked option for the Wallabies for about 5 years now. I certainly think he is better than some getting selected ahead of him, both around the park, and scrummaging.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:19am
Rob from Brumby Country said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:19am | Report comment
He didn’t show much concern for the Wallabies teammate he just helped to give his fifteenth concussion to. Pretty grubby behavior for a senior Wallaby if you ask me.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:24am
Uncle Argyle said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:24am | Report comment
Are you talking about Holmes or Cooper Rob?
July 15th 2012 @ 9:24am
stillmissit said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:24am | Report comment
Rob: The guy is a piece of low life and always will be. His gutless efforts in NZ in the face of hostile crowd’s showed how lacking in guts the little drop kick is.
Would not be surprised to see Berrick Barnes walk away from the game. Still they were chatting after the game and my lesser side wondered if Cooper didn’t instigate it to look better.
July 15th 2012 @ 1:39pm
Cattledog said | July 15th 2012 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
It was a front on tackle to take him ball and all. There was no malice in it although it was reckless, no doubt. To call him a ‘low life’ and ‘little drop kick’ just shows you as a shallow person who is still obviously feeling the effects of the Waratahs being given yet another drubbing. Grow up and move on.
July 15th 2012 @ 3:14pm
PeterK said | July 15th 2012 @ 3:14pm | Report comment
agree. It deserved a yellow at best. It is a timing issue and no cheap shot.
July 15th 2012 @ 1:50pm
Spencer said | July 15th 2012 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
What cattle dog said. You don’t even know the guy, and your comments are ugly and uncalled for. Grow up x 2.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:51am
El Gamba said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Was at the game, after full time, QC and BB spent a good 5/10 minutes chatting. It was clear that they get along well off the park.
July 15th 2012 @ 11:51am
formeropenside said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:51am | Report comment
“Wallaby teammate”- you mean the guy who walked out on Queensland rugby after telling them he was about to re-sign? I’m a bit upset anyone from the Reds still speaks to him, myself.
July 15th 2012 @ 4:38pm
Cattledog said | July 15th 2012 @ 4:38pm | Report comment
‘I’m a bit upset anyone from the Reds still speaks to him, myself’. LOL. Ah FOS, a Queenslander through and through. And I thought I was one-eyed
Sure you didn’t play for them?
July 15th 2012 @ 9:21am
stillmissit said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Uncle A: I was amazed at the raw strength of Paddy Ryan and his work around the park has improved dramatically. He is in line for a Wallaby call up I reckon, certainly when you compare him to Alexander who couldn’t push a kids scooter around.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:29am
Uncle Argyle said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
I am not so sure Still. I think Paddy Ryan is a good prospect. He was not that great in the scrum when Greg Holmes was at loose-head for Qld. NSW started to dominate the scrum when Holmes went off. Poor old Ben Daley looked horrible at scrum time last night but did some good things at the breakdown. I think Ryan was hardly tested by Daley at scrum time which allowed Ryan to make more of an impact around the park. I don’t think translates to Wallaby gold becuase Ben Daley is not a great scrummager, Ryan was OK but never had the better of Holmes. I think Ryan would get touched up Woodcock, Franks, Crockett and Co at the moment but there are some good signs in Ryan.
JEREMY TILSE PLEASE SIGN WITH QUEENSLAND NEXT YEAR BECAUSE YOU HAVE BUCKLEY’S OF GETTING A START OVER BEN ROBINSON AT ENRON (I MEAN NSW RUGBY) AS THST BLOKE COULD SIT ON HIS BUM FOR 80 MINUTES AND STILL GET PICKED.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:40am
stillmissit said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Uncle A. I don’t know what has happened to Ben Robinson he used to work hard in the tight now he bludges.
I thought Ryan held Holmes and then smashed Daley. At least I would rather a guy who is obviously improving and still has head room to a guy who has been through the meat grinder and come out as cheap mince once too often.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:56am
Uncle Argyle said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Mate I can distinctly remember Greg Holmes get stuck into Paddy Ryan on several occasions. Ben Daley has 3 Wallaby caps and should be performing better at scrum time. Holmes was also quiet effective in general play with at least one distinct turnover penalty at the break down when the Tah’s were in Qld 22. At 29 I can’t see what he has to do to get into the squad. He is playing the best rugby of his life. Mate Pek Cowan is playing better that Benn (please note the first N is silent)
July 15th 2012 @ 12:50pm
jeznez said | July 15th 2012 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
UA – the Reds don’t need another loosehead prop. Holmes is great there and Slipper is excellent there as well. The Reds needs a THP so that Slipper and Holmes can play the other side of the scrum.
Daley needs to go learn to throw lineouts and see if a shift to hooker will work.
I’ve been saying for most of the season that Tilse and Ryan should head south and fix the Rebels scrum issues. I’m getting greedy now though and think that with the additional prop to the bench rule coming in that a match day 23 with Robinson and Tilse covering one side and Kepu and Ryan covering the other will be very interesting.
You’d expect the senior pair to start games but I think that both Tilse and Ryan coming on in games is going to show what they can do and Tilse in particular will start putting pressure on Robinson for selection. Fat Cat will need to start running off that gut and playing to his potential.
It was proved under McKenzie that Robinson really only plays his best when he is under selection pressure.
July 15th 2012 @ 2:10pm
Uncle Argyle said | July 15th 2012 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
Mate I am pretty happy with Holmes Slipper & Anea as our props. Shepherdson and Daley should be cut which leaves room for Tilse. I want him in QLD. As for hookers mate I am happy ith Saia and Hanson why would Daley go there. Maybe the Tah’s can have him!
Mate Jeremy Tilse is going nowhere is NSW rugby. He has been with the squad sicne 2006 and had 14 odd games, most off the bench. I think he needs to move on…to QLD.
SLIPPER did just find at THP last night.
July 15th 2012 @ 3:04pm
jeznez said | July 15th 2012 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
Daley cannot scrummage but he is brilliant around the field doing the sh*tters which is exactly what you want form a tight five player. If the guy learnt to throw lineouts and made the switch I’d have him in Tah land in a heartbeat.
So you want Tilse to go sit on the bench behind Holmes instead of sitting on the bench behind Robinson? The rule changes coming in this year mean he will finally start getting meaningful minutes every week so the motivation to move for a bench spot has gone.
Slipper was alright at THP last night but I think giving him consistent time at LHP would see him find his best form and position.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:08am
ohtani's jacket said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:08am | Report comment
If the Reds win they’ll play the Chiefs not the Stormers.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:12am
Sailosi said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:12am | Report comment
I said at the start of the season tha Jake White will never take the brumbies to the finals in his 4 years there and i had egg on my face for 15 rounds but Jake it’s time to go. You’ve done your job, you have shaken the joint up and players now run around the cones at training but this team cannot move any further forward under your guidance.
–
Comment left via The Roar’s iPhone app. Download The Roar’s iPhone App in the App Store here.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:25am
Jeff said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:25am | Report comment
Who will you replace him with.Find me an Australian coach as good.I am sorry if I sound as though I am harping on this but there are currently no good Australian coaches around.
Perhaps you could poach a real success story,Michael Foley from the Waratahs !!
July 15th 2012 @ 8:34am
Terry Tavita said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:34am | Report comment
the brumbies lack muscle, grunt, athleticism and talent..and they are my fav super rugby team..they need to go recruit from samoa..get alafoti fa’osiliva and ofisa treviranus next year..they know how to rough it up with those big tongans and samoans from south auckland who were having their way last night..there was absolutely no brumbies line break last night..even had little sherwyn stowers running through them..god..
July 15th 2012 @ 9:27am
stillmissit said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Sailosi: Where do you guys get this stuff? He has taken a broken and failing team and almost got them into the finals and if they had not suffered the Aust Rugby disease of slacking off when they think it is easy, they would be in the finals today………..
July 15th 2012 @ 9:38am
Emric said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
wow 1 season – he almost takes the team to the play-offs and your unhappy.
July 15th 2012 @ 9:58am
Kuruki said | July 15th 2012 @ 9:58am | Report comment
Wow wow wow Australia is struggling to find decent coaches and some of you want to sack the best of the bunch. White has done a massive job with his team it was the players who let themselves down by not turning up to play, and going away from the game-plan they have stuck with all year.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:13am
Bakkies said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:13am | Report comment
You do realise mate that he is coaching a lot of players who have never played Super Rugby before. It wasn’t White’s fault that we couldn’t finish the job on the field in the home losses to the Sharks and Reds.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:22am
Sailosi said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:22am | Report comment
What Jake White has done is brilliant and maybe no other coach in the world could have achieved what he has. I’m saying that under Whites guidance this is the highest this team will finish.
July 15th 2012 @ 10:42am
Bakkies said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:42am | Report comment
How could you say that considering he has a very young squad with a lot of players not at full potential yet?
July 15th 2012 @ 10:57am
Sailosi said | July 15th 2012 @ 10:57am | Report comment
Jake White has built his success around being a very successful tournament coach, the SA u/21 and 2007 WC. Coaching a team week in week out is a different beast and requires a different coaching method. This is the reason why many very good football managers refuse to coach at a national level such as Arsene Wenger because they don’t like the style of play and they can’t put their stamp on the team in a short time. Marcelo Laffreda experienced this at Leicester. I just feel that Jake White is more suited to national team coaching.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:30pm
Bakkies said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:30pm | Report comment
Loffreda wasn’t really given a chance at Leicester to prove himself and he had difficult people under him like Richard Cockerill. Plus he took the gig after the 2007 RWC. Cockerill is a bit of a xenophobe and this was shown in his shocking interview on the UK Rugby Club. Stuart Barnes was in shock after listening to the bile that was coming out of Cockerill’s mouth. Heyneke Meyer walked out on Leicester for family reasons.
July 15th 2012 @ 11:24pm
Colin N said | July 15th 2012 @ 11:24pm | Report comment
Loffreda very nearly led Leicester to their worse finish in a while, Meyer also didn’t fit wth Leicester’s style.
Cockerill, by contrast, has done outstandingly well.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:13am
Rob from Brumby Country said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:13am | Report comment
Well it’s hard to know how that loss will affect the Brumbies mentality. The reality is that throughout the season they weren’t good enough when it counted, and although that was a very harsh way of learning that lesson, it is a lesson that this young group needed to learn.
If they’re weak, they will fall off the pace, blaming the outcome on bad luck and co-incidence. If they’re weak, they will use it as reason to doubt the methods that they have used so far which have turned them around. If they’re weak, they will doubt themselves. If they’re weak, I don’t think Jake White will tolerate them.
But if they are tough, their loss is the kind of failure that will get them out of bed at 5am in August to start a ridiculously early pre-season. If they’re tough, it is the kind of loss that will make them go harder than they ever thought possible in the gym and on the paddock. If they’re tough, it is the kind of loss that will give them the reckless and ruthless desperation of champions; the burning desire to win whatever the cost. If they’re tough, it’s the kind of loss that they will work tirelessly to see that they never suffer again.
I suspect we might be surprised at who turns out to be tough and who turns out to be weak. Attitudes will be reflected in the playing roster next year. It’s going to be a difficult few weeks for Brumbies’ players and supporters to watch the other teams contest the finals, but if there is one ray of hope in the gloom, it is that the wife of another champion player who has suffered too many defeats at this level (and who has been linked to a possible move to the Brumbies) has been spotted taking in the sights around Canberra (as reported by the Sydney Morning Herald this morning).
2013 already looks to be bringing some new plot twists. Do not waste your opportunity, Queensland, the chance might not come again.
July 15th 2012 @ 8:14am
kingplaymaker said | July 15th 2012 @ 8:14am | Report comment
I suspect like the Reds the Crusaders may do better than expected, not least because they are less expected to do well than the Chiefs. There’s a dangerous amount of pressure on the Chiefs.