Can next season be a winner for the Reds?
By The Crowd, 31 Jul 2012 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
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- Queensland Reds, Rugby Union, Super Rugby
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The Reds didn’t quite get their 2012 season to the level that was shown in 2011. But how is 2013 looking?
Although the Wallaby season rolls on for the rest of the year for many Reds players, incoming head coach Richard Graham and Director of Coaching Ewen McKenzie need to look to their squad now.
In actual fact they were probably looking at it months ago, but they forgot to call me and ask my opinion.
The first thing is that the Reds need some forwards.
That might seem an odd statement given that twice this year the Reds have finished games with the best halfback in the world Will Genia playing at flyhalf, but the fact of the matter is they had a lot of injuries at playmaker. Four flyhalves have been out injured at one point of the season. That can’t be planned for.
It is in the big men department that the Reds have a real worry.
The Reds forwards are just not quite good enough to mix it with the best Super Rugby packs. During their title-winning 2011 season they overcame the difference by playing with intensity and accuracy.
In 2012 they have failed to do this, and they need to fix it for 2013.
In the front row the Reds don’t have a genuine tighthead. I believe Shepherdson is still in the squad but he does not appear to be getting a look in.
Slipper is being played at tighthead whenever he is fit, but plenty of observers (including Bob Dwyer, Robbie Deans and resident Roar scrum guru ‘jeznez’) see him as a loosehead.
One of Sekope Kepu, Paddy Ryan, Dan Palmer, Ben Alexander or even Salesi Ma’afu should be high on the Reds’ target list. If they have to trade Holmes, Slipper, Daley or Anae away for a genuine tighthead, then so be it.
Horwill should be back next year, and with Simmons and Wallace-Harrison will give the Reds the best second row in Australia by a decent margin. The problem is that AWH is 32, Van Humphries, the squad’s fourth lock, is 36 and Samo as number-eight-cum-lock is about 40 (despite claiming to be 36).
They have McDuling in the extended squad but he’s yet to play a match.
In the backrow, things are even more dire. Other than the aforementioned Samo, every loose forward on the Reds books is a flanker and not a number eight.
Higginbotham has been improving and developing his game well in the last two years and will be a good Wallaby number eight if Palu goes down injured, but he is off to the Melbourne Rebels in 2013.
That’s a big loss given the plaudits he received from the New Zealand and Australian press this season. Gill and Robinson are genuine on the ball opensides while Schatz, Quirk and development squad member Butler are all flankers without the size, set piece skills, or running game of an eighteen.
I know that all three as well as McDuling have played at no.8 in age-group / grade rugby, but I don’t see them as capable of making the step up. The Reds need a big angry enforcer of a number eight and I have no idea where Graham and McKenzie will find one.
In the backline all is rosy except for the massive injury list which will hopefully clear by the start of next season (although where the injured Peter Hynes fits into things is still something of a mystery).
This is my current understanding of the Reds squad (30 players plus five development players) and as you can see there is one glaring open spot in the back row as well as the potential weakness in the front.
2013 Reds:
Props: Daley, Slipper, Holmes, Shepherdson
Hookers: Hanson, S. Fainga’a
Locks: Horwill (c), Simmons, Wallace-Harrison, Van Humphries
Loose Forwards: Samo, Robinson, Gill, Schatz, Quirk, +1
Halves: Genia (vc), Frisby, Lucas, Cooper, Lance
Centres: Harris, A. Fainga’a, Tapuai, F’Sautia
Outside Backs: Ioane, Morahan, Shipperley, Toua, Davies
Extended squad:
Albert Anae (Prop/Hooker)
David McDuling (Lock)
Jarrad Butler (Flanker)
Sam Lane (Flyhalf)
UJ Seuteni (Flyhalf)
Random additional squad member:
Peter Hynes (Wing/Fullback)
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July 31st 2012 @ 10:04am
formeropenside said | July 31st 2012 @ 10:04am | Report comment
Look, Schatz is a genuine 8, and I think can make the position his own, barring injury. Its a shame the ARU made us donate Higgy to the Rebels – its yet another reason to think the ARU are a bunch of useless fools – but he can probably be covered. There are some good young backrowers coming through, and McDuling could prove to be a good pickup if he stays injury free (but being a New South Welshman his loyalty is always suspect).
It would be nice if Hugh McMeniman could come back: after a few years in Japan he might like to try Super rugby again. He’d be a perfect 6, at least when you were not playing Beau Robbo there.
I think Slipper did fine at THP all year: there is a need for a backup THP to take Shepherdson’s spot, and its Paul Alo-Emile coming home. The problem is that he is in the Rebels squad next year, and another 3. option in Ruan Smith may be tied up with the Force. But apart from that, is no need to go hunting for a southern replacement, and especially not trading a local product for one.
The backs are fine. It would be nice to get Sam Lane into the EPS though.
July 31st 2012 @ 10:09am
Jutsie said | July 31st 2012 @ 10:09am | Report comment
How old is McMeniman? Do u have any info if he has gotten over his injury issues whilst playing in japan.
He would be a great addition to both the reds and wallabies if he was to return.
Schatz has had an excellent season and does alot more grunt work that higgy.
I think scrum is OK when holmes and slipper are on but still not great, they dont really dominate anyone. Also wish link would start hanson instead of S Finger, S finger is a penalty magnet and drops the ball alot too.
July 31st 2012 @ 10:36am
formeropenside said | July 31st 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
MMM is not yet 30 – heck, even Daniel Heenan is still only 31 by the start of next season.
July 31st 2012 @ 10:42am
Jutsie said | July 31st 2012 @ 10:42am | Report comment
I had forgotten all about heenan. Where does he play nowadays?
July 31st 2012 @ 11:25am
formeropenside said | July 31st 2012 @ 11:25am | Report comment
Japan, I believe.
July 31st 2012 @ 10:41am
Harry said | July 31st 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Agree with all of that FOS. What about this Envers bloke FOS, I hear he’s a great prospect, so hopefully him and McDuling will step up and provide some more depth at 4,5 and 6.
July 31st 2012 @ 11:16am
formeropenside said | July 31st 2012 @ 11:16am | Report comment
Blake Enever did get on the park for the Reds this year – seems OK, and still young.
July 31st 2012 @ 1:45pm
Comrade Bear said | July 31st 2012 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
> It would be nice to get Sam Lane into the EPS though.
Agree – I thought he was excellent in his short pre-injury stint at 10.
I too am looking to see what the player movement is in the forwards – are Van Hummer and R Samo really still looking play next year? Would be great to see MMM or D Heenan back.
Also curious to see what the random additional squad member is up to next year – is he playing again yet?
August 1st 2012 @ 11:14am
Cattledog said | August 1st 2012 @ 11:14am | Report comment
FOS, Ruan Smith I think would jump at the chance to play for the Reds. I don’t think he has a contract with the Force. His brother JP is pretty handy as well. I agree Schatz can cover No. 8 well and also Slips did well at THP this year, even if he does prefer LH.
Touch wood we can keep the backs relatively injury free next season, especially in that 10-12 arena. I expect Benny Taps to step up even further next season but we must have the depth in the forwards to support what I think will be a very exciting back line once again. I think Higgers is a big loss and whilst we will cover him, I would have much preferred having him in the squad. What say does the ARU have regarding transfers?
August 2nd 2012 @ 11:37pm
Hawko said | August 2nd 2012 @ 11:37pm | Report comment
Ruan Smith has signed for the Brumbies.
August 5th 2012 @ 8:18pm
Cattledog said | August 5th 2012 @ 8:18pm | Report comment
Yeah, just found out. Has just had shoulder surgery as well. Reds loss, Brumbies gain
July 31st 2012 @ 10:34am
Jiggles said | July 31st 2012 @ 10:34am | Report comment
McDuling is in the squad proper I think.
July 31st 2012 @ 10:39am
formeropenside said | July 31st 2012 @ 10:39am | Report comment
Yes he is, but yet to play a game after doing his knee (?) in a pre-season.
July 31st 2012 @ 3:38pm
Jiggles said | July 31st 2012 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
ACL, I think.
July 31st 2012 @ 10:36am
chuck said | July 31st 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Can they be a winner next year no !!!
August 1st 2012 @ 11:18am
Cattledog said | August 1st 2012 @ 11:18am | Report comment
Your grammar is as useless as your trolling.
July 31st 2012 @ 11:04am
Shaun said | July 31st 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
Pretty similar season to the one the Bulls had in 2008 after winning their first title in 2007.
If that pattern follows, the Reds might be looking forward to the next 2 seasons!
July 31st 2012 @ 3:03pm
Spencer said | July 31st 2012 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
Bulls finished 10/14. Reds finished 4/15.
July 31st 2012 @ 5:12pm
Jutsie said | July 31st 2012 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
Nevertheless it was still a disapointing season considering the heights they reached in 2011. If the bulls could bounce back from finishing 10th then surely the reds can bounce back from this.
July 31st 2012 @ 5:32pm
biltongbek said | July 31st 2012 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
You need to remember the Bulls changed coaches in the 2008 season, they also lost some players, I remember it was the year Habana moved to the Stormers, can’t remember off hand but there were also some retirements and movements north after the RWC of 2007.
July 31st 2012 @ 7:03pm
Spencer said | July 31st 2012 @ 7:03pm | Report comment
Biltong – yep, and the Reds have had a massive injury problem in 2012. My point is that there are always reasons. I think Jutsie had it about right..see below. Jutsie said | July 31st 2012 @ 11:53am
July 31st 2012 @ 11:19pm
biltongbek said | July 31st 2012 @ 11:19pm | Report comment
Agreed, when do you guys know who is contracted where for the next season?
July 31st 2012 @ 11:46am
Invictus said | July 31st 2012 @ 11:46am | Report comment
You can have Ma’afu, no charge. Free delivery!!!
July 31st 2012 @ 12:05pm
redsnut said | July 31st 2012 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
No thanks.
I’d rather turn out, and I haven’t played for a long time.
July 31st 2012 @ 3:04pm
Spencer said | July 31st 2012 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
Free delivery!! Hope youre not using express courier – cost a fortune!
July 31st 2012 @ 5:06pm
Invictus said | July 31st 2012 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
Would be worth it just to get rid of him…
July 31st 2012 @ 11:53am
Jutsie said | July 31st 2012 @ 11:53am | Report comment
I think a major problem for the reds this year (in addition to the injury toll to no 10′s) was complacency and perhaps a bit of arrogance.
This usually happens to young teams that taste success ahead of schedule (refer to the hawks in the afl when they won in 2008).
They start to believe their own press and continue with the same game plans as the previous year without realising that every team in the comp wouldve have deconstructed their game plan over the pre-season.
In addition alot of the younger players (especially in the pack) dont have the same hunger now that they have reached the peak so only put in 80% effort when 90-100% is required.
Now that the reds have tasted failure again I have no doubt that they will find the hunger and commitment required for next season. And Im sure after a few weeks Link will sit down and analyse his coaching performance in the finals and all year and work on his own weaknesses too.
August 4th 2012 @ 2:20pm
STU said | August 4th 2012 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
jutsie,link should start analysing now and take an honesty pill. lucky to make finals and then made a fool of himself imo.
July 31st 2012 @ 1:22pm
WQ said | July 31st 2012 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
The Reds will fire again next year and that will happen as a result of this year and the fact that they will feel as though they let themselves down.
They have retained the nucleus of the side and will have learned this year that they need to get the game plan spread deeper into the squad.
Besides, surely they can’t have another run of injuries like this year again next year!
July 31st 2012 @ 1:29pm
Jutsie said | July 31st 2012 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
Message to willy G: shelve the box kick for good!
July 31st 2012 @ 3:09pm
Spencer said | July 31st 2012 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
It’s more like a forward pass with the foot! I think it shows a lack of trust in the back-row to truck it forward without losing possession, and considering QC wasn’t outside him, Sanchez probably wasn’t confident to go wide, early. I am reminded of the adage that there is not such as a bad kick – just a bad chase. Whilst that is a stretch, I think the principle is right.
July 31st 2012 @ 3:38pm
formeropenside said | July 31st 2012 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
I’d argue there is a bad kick as an absolute, but agree with the underlying point: a good kick can become a poor one if there is no chase. A good chase is part of the requirement for a good kick – and an excellent chase can convert an average kick into a good one.
July 31st 2012 @ 3:40pm
Jutsie said | July 31st 2012 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
To a degree that is correct spencer (regarding chasers) but Will doesn’t get much distance or penetration with the box kick either and its not just this year that he has utilised it. It crept into his arsenal last year in the first crusaders vs reds game last year when both teams were exhausted. It was like he was just buying the reds time and protecting their slender lead.
He also used it alot during the world cup and was just handing back possie to the dangerous AB’s back three (although it was probably due to QC having a public breakdown too).
He is a much better player when he is sniping near the ruck or demanding his forwards/backs to run on to his flat passes.
July 31st 2012 @ 3:44pm
Jagman said | July 31st 2012 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
“Horwill should be back next year, and with Simmons and Wallace-Harrison will give the Reds the best second row in Australia by a decent margin.”
I’m not sure how decent that margin will be. Saw Simmons get palmed by the welsh scrum half in June. He’s only good at lineouts.
Remember Mumm is leaving the Waratahs so they’ll have two powerful locks Douglas and Timani with Dennis calling the throws. Vickerman’s retirement is not confirmed either.
Also the Rebels have Pyle, Neville and Jones. I’d only prefer Horwill to any of those three.
July 31st 2012 @ 3:48pm
Jutsie said | July 31st 2012 @ 3:48pm | Report comment
Im a rebs fan too jagman but I think AWH is better at the moment that any of the rebs locks. They are young and have a lot of potential but are yet to develop the street smarts of horwill and AWH. U only get that with age and experience.
But yeah simmons is a powderpuff, I had high hopes for him after 2010 and 2011 super series but he has yet to perform at test level and went backwards in super 15 this year too.
July 31st 2012 @ 11:07pm
Jagman said | July 31st 2012 @ 11:07pm | Report comment
You’re probably right jutsie but I’d still pick any of the three Rebs locks ahead of AWH if nothing more than for their serious potential to improve, particularly Neville and Jones.
July 31st 2012 @ 4:02pm
Jiggles said | July 31st 2012 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
This ‘Powerful Timani’ is a pretty rare beast. All ways spoken about, never spotted.
July 31st 2012 @ 6:19pm
Jagman said | July 31st 2012 @ 6:19pm | Report comment
Just watch a waratahs scrum
July 31st 2012 @ 6:45pm
Jiggles said | July 31st 2012 @ 6:45pm | Report comment
Ah the all powerful Tah scrum which won 4 games this year…
July 31st 2012 @ 7:05pm
formeropenside said | July 31st 2012 @ 7:05pm | Report comment
and only gave the Reds any trouble when the Reds had 7 men and Ben Daley struggling with an injured shoulder
July 31st 2012 @ 11:01pm
Jagman said | July 31st 2012 @ 11:01pm | Report comment
You must be referring to the end of the game when Timani came off the bench
July 31st 2012 @ 5:00pm
murph73 said | July 31st 2012 @ 5:00pm | Report comment
If they bring in Maafu then I will refuse to watch the Reds. What about Rodzilla?