Tanking is natural selection in action
By kevinhawkins, 2 Aug 2012 kevinhawkins is a Roar Rookie
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- AFL, brock mclean, Melbourne Demons, tanking
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In light of Brock McLean’s comments on Monday night’s On The Couch, the ugly issue of tanking has resurfaced in the sea of AFL discourse.
Some commentators, such as Mark Robinson, have used this opportunity to condemn the practice. In Wednesday’s Herald Sun Robinson called for the AFL to take serious action against clubs that throw matches in the future.
This comes as the AFL has announced an investigation into McLean’s comments about Melbourne underperforming in 2009.
But the AFL don’t need to enforce sanctions. Clubs that are stupid enough to tank will inevitably fail in their vain efforts to mount the ladder. It’s natural selection in action.
Melbourne finished the 2009 season in 16th place and was by far one of the worst teams in the league. But few could argue that Melbourne performed as well as it could have that year. Call it experimentation, list management or tanking – Melbourne wanted to win less than five games in 2009 and they succeeded.
Looking at Melbourne circa 2012, however, you wouldn’t call it a success.
Consistently finishing last – and subsequently scoring high draft picks – has not done the Demons much good since 2009. They have since won 16 games in almost three seasons, finishing no higher than 12th on the AFL ladder. They have also changed coaches twice in this time to compound the two coaching changes they endured in 2007.
To make matters worse, the club has endured a season of turmoil on and off the field in 2012. They are not likely to make the finals for another two seasons and currently possess the most ineffective midfield in the competition.
You could name a number of reasons for this current predicament. But the conscious decision of the club during the Bailey era to put draft choices over on-field performance surely has something to do with it.
During those years, tanking instituted a losing culture at Melbourne. Not only were players exposed to an environment in which losing was acceptable, but the club’s most successful contributors were being forced out from above.
The head honchos at Melbourne showed a complete lack of respect to the club’s senior players. A lot has been said about the James McDonald dismissal – arguably the worst decision of Bailey’s tenure – but other club champions also got a rough deal.
None of Adem Yze, Jeff White, Russell Robertson, Travis Johnstone, Paul Wheatley, Matthew Whelan, Brad Miller and Cameron Bruce got to leave the Demons on their terms. Combined with McDonald, this group represented Melbourne over 1700 times. They played in numerous finals series together and knew the value of winning.
Bailey inevitably had to prematurely end the careers of some of these players in order to breed a new generation of Demons. But given that most of these men could probably still get a game with the club today, it seems ridiculous that such a huge amount of experience was chopped in such a short space of time.
In the meantime, the club failed to recognise the talents of Simon Buckley (now a regular ball magnet at Collingwood) and Shane Valenti (a proven AFL performer now dominating the VFL). They cut these players – and traded away their best midfielders in McLean and Johnstone – in the hope of capitalising on fresh blood in the drafts.
Yet the draft has not given the Demons even a slight advantage over their rivals.
In the months following 2009’s wooden spoon finish, the Demons picked up Tom Scully, Jack Trengove and Jordan Gysberts in the first round of the draft.
Number-one selection Scully failed to live up to expectations in his first two seasons at the club. From 2010 to 2011, Scully only played a handful of decent games before landing arguably the most lucrative contract in the history of the AFL. Now he is underperforming in Blacktown.
Second choice Trengove has made a solid start to his career, this year becoming the youngest player to ever captain his club. If we’re to play the horrible hindsight game, however, he hasn’t done any better than fellow 2009 choices Dustin Martin, Lewis Jetta, Nathan Fyfe and Sam Reid.
Gysberts, meanwhile, is playing in the seconds. While the dual-Rising Star nominated midfielder has huge potential, he has spent much of the year languishing at VFL level with fellow unfulfilled talents. These include Cale Morton, who could have been a number-one pick in 2007, Ricky Petterd (#30, 2006) and Lucas Cook (#12 in 2010).
This is no indictment on this trio; each could still play a vital role in Melbourne’s re-build over the following seasons. But if these players were drafted into a club with a strong culture of winning and a value for old heads, who knows where they would be now?
A fleeting glance at the progress of Collingwood’s young crop puts Melbourne to shame. Fourth-year players Dayne Beams and Steele Sidebottom are bordering on superstar status, while youngsters such as Alex Fasolo and Ben Sinclair have slotted into the side with ease.
Gysberts, Morton, Petterd and Cook aren’t the only Melbournians to have not developed. For a five-year period in the late 2000s, Melbourne had more Rising Star nominees than any other club. Of those past up-and-comers only Jared Rivers and Nathan Jones have since matured into consistent leaders of the football club.
The moral of the story is that teams which tank punish themselves. While a few clubs have succeeded at manipulating the draft system, most have failed.
Draft picks and young kids do not equate to success. On the contrary a strong club ethos, constant player development and sensible list management is critical. Melbourne has failed in each of these regards and is paying the cost.
The AFL thus doesn’t need to enforce rules and regulations on tanking. If teams are foolish enough to try the supposed tactic, they will simply punish themselves.
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August 2nd 2012 @ 2:37am
Bee Bee said | August 2nd 2012 @ 2:37am | Report comment
I like the perspective change presented here. Karma is awesome isn’t it.
No doubt other clubs have dabbled in tanking. The addition of GWS and GC Suns seems to have made the issue irrelevant though. At least for the next few years. Winning the wooden spoon seems harder work than making the eight.
It would take tanking of biblical proportions to wrestle the spoon away from these two clubs.
I wonder if they will become the Cinderella stories the AFL so dearly want them to be. I was interested to read the other day that the Lions are preparing to buy some of GC’s best forward talent next season. Looks like the evil step sister has an eye on Cinderella’s crystal slipper’s.
Never mind AFL will pour a few million more dollars into GC and buy them a shiny new forward just in time for the ball.
Is it just me or is the tanking issue just a tiny problem in comparison to the artificially manufactured competition the AFL has become? Is it just me or is drafting players a soul destroying process for club’s player’s and supporters’.
Is it just me or does supporting an AFL club seem harder than ever?
Its probably just me. I admit it. I support a team with a lot more losses than wins. Were my team pushing for a GF I’d be writing about how great the AFL is and how much I love my team. I would be dreaming of beating Collingwood in the GF.
Well I could always pick a second team. Worked when I was ten. Those Crows seem like a nice bunch of young men.
Go the Crows.
Suddenly I feel better. Tanking, new clubs that can’t win, billion dollar television deals. Who cares. I love Crows now.
August 2nd 2012 @ 8:10am
Shaun said | August 2nd 2012 @ 8:10am | Report comment
There is something seriously wrong with the culture of the AFL and it’s supporters if there continues to be a broad ‘acceptance’ of what, in reality, is match fixing.
Match fixing is all about per determined outcomes.
Match fixing is criminal.
Why aren’t the Victorian Police involved?
Why isn’t there a betting enquiry? Punters are waging on matches where the results are already known to one side.
This stinks. This stinks bad.
August 2nd 2012 @ 8:48am
Lux said | August 2nd 2012 @ 8:48am | Report comment
I agree that the AFL needs to take some form of action here.
On the question of punting, all punters would enter the betting arena with the equivalent knowledge of how low placed teams normally perform at this time of year, and the bookies will adjust their odds accordingly. Bets above and below the line will be as keenly contested as they always are, there is no real advantage to either party. I’m not really sure how that qualifies as match fixing.
August 2nd 2012 @ 9:16am
db swannie said | August 2nd 2012 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Lux..if in a 2 horse race you knew one horse was not going to be trying 100% because of the Trainer & jockey both wanting it to lose ,then yes the race is classed as fixed,
You can defend it all you want ,but it is wrong.
August 2nd 2012 @ 9:41pm
Lux said | August 2nd 2012 @ 9:41pm | Report comment
db
If we’re talking about the GGs, I’m sure you would agree that 2 horse races are far and few between.
However, you remind me of a delightful memory I have, of a day at the races spent in one of our iconic, bucolic tracks – I’m sure you can picture what I’m talking about.
It was a beautiful day, and had witnessed a find day’s racing, and around the 3rd last race of the day, we had the odd situation of a three horse race. From memory, a 4th horse may have been scratched, so this meant that the bookies were only taking bets for the win, naturally enough.
My recollection is that there was one standout horse, carrying ridiculous odds like 10/9 or something, and there was some broken down horse carrying odds of 100/1 or something similar, and then there was another nag somewhere in the middle, around, say 15/1.
Quite obviously, absolutely everyone involved with the race meet that day expected the top horse to win at a canter.
And if you and I could have mustered a $9 million bet that day, we would have walked away with $1 million between us in clear profit – not a bad day’s outing.
But of course, I didn’t have $9 million, or even $9,000, so opted for a $10 bet on the nag at 100s, just to make sure no one was playing funny buggers, and of course they weren’t – it was a hopeless nag that had barely got out of the gate by the time the favourite came galloping down the straight.
No investigation necessary – it was a broken down nag – pure and simple.
Likewise with Melbourne, we’re talking about a team that has been hopeless for 48 years – a true broken down nag. Honestly, why would anyone be the least bit surprised or concerned about a club being hopeless for that length of time.
If bookies are willing to offer 10/9 odds on a sure win – so be it.
As for the Demons, surely they have earned and received their own sanction many times over.
August 2nd 2012 @ 9:13am
db swannie said | August 2nd 2012 @ 9:13am | Report comment
As a RL fan i just cannot get my head around it.
I would not go & watch my team play knowing they were not trying.
I would probably give the sport away .
& before the AFL fans come here to defend it,Please think ,If your team is going out there to not play to their best,because of a reward for losing then they are TRYING to lose,which is very very wrong.
The difference between My sport & AFL ,is in RL teams try to avoid the wooden spoon at all costs(see Eels V Broncs Mon night),Yet in AFL some teams go all out to get the spoon,because there is a reward/bonus for finishing last.
There should be no bonus ,no nothing for finishing last except trying to avoid the shame again next yr.
August 2nd 2012 @ 10:50am
GCS said | August 2nd 2012 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Why can’t you get your head around it? It’s not that complicated. Finish last and you get first pick at the best young players in the country. No supporter wants their team to win the wooden spoon, but I guess AFL supporters often think about what their team will look like in the years ahead. Don’t think it sits well with anyone though.
August 2nd 2012 @ 11:06am
db swannie said | August 2nd 2012 @ 11:06am | Report comment
I cant get my head around the fact that as a fan my club would do all they can to get beat.
As a fan i expect that if i follow & support my team through the bad times ,that at least they are going out there to give 100%.
I cant accept that the coach would play players out of position,rest star players ,etc just so they lost a game.
GCS you are the perfect AFL fan .
Never ever question anything that comes out of AFL house.
All the excuses are legit,everything is fine…Nothing to see here ,move along.
& i expect the same result as the last few times when players/coaches have said they tanked.
After a session with head office,stories will be changed,& things will be smoothed over.
Thats what happens when the people who make the rules also police the rules.
August 2nd 2012 @ 4:32pm
Brewski said | August 2nd 2012 @ 4:32pm | Report comment
db swannie said “As a RL fan i just cannot get my head around it.”
I don’t think anyone is suprised !.
August 2nd 2012 @ 4:46pm
The High Shot said | August 2nd 2012 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
It’s pretty clear that plenty of AFL fans are ok with this state of affairs. It’s normal. It’s cool. Don’t worry. Playing to lose is fine. It happens. Don’t worry.
If it were my team deliberately trying to lose I’d put my foot thru the TV and send the club the bill.
August 2nd 2012 @ 5:09pm
Nathan of Perth said | August 2nd 2012 @ 5:09pm | Report comment
That’s a different sort of thing, haha
From all I read of Melbourne Demons supporters at the moment, on BigFooty or their Demonology board, they are at their wits end and not okay with the last six years at all. Tales of busted tvs and parents wondering what to do as their kids ask them how much did we lose by this week, dad.
To which most other supporters shrug and say that Melbourne made their bed for them.
I think part of what you’re seeing here is that most AFL supporters are club supporters first and code supporters a much distant second. And as we don’t see that Melbourne is getting any particular advantage from this (especially given how they take these picks and use them on people no functioning team would spend them on) then we say that their antics are between them, their supporter base and whatever gods they choose to name.
I definitely think they’ve reached the point where this isn’t deliberate. This is simply the state of their list and I pity more Neeld the task he has before him.
August 2nd 2012 @ 7:32pm
JVGO said | August 2nd 2012 @ 7:32pm | Report comment
Being a closed system with no outside benchmark AFL fans can rest assured that the AFL has designed a system that will eventually deliver each club success and they will all get their turn. They can then proclaim themselves champions in the greatest football competition in the world centred and governed from the sporting capital of the universe in Melbourne.. it’s perfect.
August 2nd 2012 @ 9:23pm
Lux said | August 2nd 2012 @ 9:23pm | Report comment
I see where you are coming from JVGO, it’s natural to assume that all Austalian sports fans, and aspiring athletes, would view the AFL Premiership as the holy grail of Australian sport.
But I believe it is far fetched to view this as being the world champions – I do not believe that to be the case at all.
August 3rd 2012 @ 12:11am
amazonfan said | August 3rd 2012 @ 12:11am | Report comment
Nathan- “To which most other supporters shrug and say that Melbourne made their bed for them.”
Which shows how hypocritical football supporters are. Do you really think that Melbourne is the only club to have tanked? Tanking goes beyond Melbourne, and for opposition supporters to single out Melbourne is not only hypocritical but, in the case of clubs like Carlton, a convenient rewriting of history.
“I think part of what you’re seeing here is that most AFL supporters are club supporters first and code supporters a much distant second. And as we don’t see that Melbourne is getting any particular advantage from this (especially given how they take these picks and use them on people no functioning team would spend them on) then we say that their antics are between them, their supporter base and whatever gods they choose to name.”
Putting aside that Melbourne is not the only club to utilise these amtics, to say that we used the picks on ‘people no functioning team would spend them on’ is nonsense. The reality is that almost every other club would have drafted the same players.
August 3rd 2012 @ 9:33am
Australian Rules said | August 3rd 2012 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Like most footy followers, I abhor tanking, and if Melbourne did it years ago, then they’re a disgrace.
But unlike the NRL, there’s a draft in the AFL and this is the rare, but dark side of the draft.
So here’s some context…
Your team is coming last all year. There’s one more game to finish off a miserable season.
If you win this game, you’ll finish second from bottom and get he 2nd draft pick.
If you lose, you finish last, and are guaranteed not just the No.1 draft pick and best young player in the country…but TWO early draft picks.
That’s the ugly truth that Melbourne fans were faced with and some of them turned a blind eye when the coach put young players on, and played forwards as backs for the end of that game against Richmond. Woeful stuff.
August 3rd 2012 @ 9:53am
Brewski said | August 3rd 2012 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Just saw the Aussie mens fours rowing, they finished 2nd in the semi, but apparently had plenty in reserve, could have done better………. tanking !, or strategy ?.
August 8th 2012 @ 12:13pm
micka said | August 8th 2012 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
db you are under the impression that tanking teams don’t lose supporters. They may not lose the long termers but do you think that this tanking will not impact on kids wanting to barrack for a perpetually losing team?
No one likes it, hence why it is such a filthy word in supporters circles.
Is it more honest to cheat a salary cap or something of that nature?
August 2nd 2012 @ 9:01am
JasonA said | August 2nd 2012 @ 9:01am | Report comment
Draft Lottery? Similar to the one used in the NBA, then there is not an assured number 1 draft pick.
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August 2nd 2012 @ 10:34am
John D said | August 2nd 2012 @ 10:34am | Report comment
Great Article, Kevin. I can’t help but contrast Melbourne with the Swans (not my team by the way) when it comes to this issue. When a team in a Non-afl state without high draft picks consistently finishes in the finals year after year on the back of recycled players and lower draft picks, you could argue that canny recruiting, good coaching and a healthy culture are far more important than high draft picks in creating success.
August 2nd 2012 @ 10:39am
Gadjo said | August 2nd 2012 @ 10:39am | Report comment
It is all about the system which has been set up, and the teams operate within those parameters to get the “best” result for the club.
How can commentators/fans/coachs call to get some games into the youngsters and the end of a fruitless season, when that isn’t maximising the teams likelihood of winning in that particular match? Was what Richmond did against Gold Coast considered tanking?? Sending the home match up to Cairns and not playing on their home ground, giving players who may have needed a rest a rest? What about sSetting different training loads during the season a la Essendon to achieve results down the track which may hinder you in the short term?
Tanking is a very grey area…I think a lot of it has to do with the teams perspective of what success means for them…whether they are competing for one match and taking it “one week at a time”, or looking to deliver the best result for the current season and win the premiership in September, or trying to lay foundations and develop the long term future of the club? Aside from fixing a match and the players actually conspiring to lose, the challenge is to draw distinctions between what is appropriate and what isn’t.
Ultimately, supporters are very fickle and as everyone loves this weeks winning team. The challenge is to either get the balance right like Geelong has for the last 6 seasons with success and succession planning, or pick a path, stick to it, and look forward to reaping what you sow and hope that supporters stick out the journey.
August 2nd 2012 @ 10:55am
Jimmy said | August 2nd 2012 @ 10:55am | Report comment
It is match fixing.
Put as much lip stick on a pig as you like……still a pig.
Match fixing.
August 2nd 2012 @ 11:04am
Gwils said | August 2nd 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
You should pass on whatwver information you have to the police, this sounds serious
August 2nd 2012 @ 11:13am
Jimmy said | August 2nd 2012 @ 11:13am | Report comment
How is manipulating outcome so that your own team loses not serious?
How is not trying to win every single game not serious?
The AFL should be going to the Police. Brock McLean should be going to the Police.
August 2nd 2012 @ 11:29am
Gadjo said | August 2nd 2012 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Should Richmond be in trouble for having their home game in Cairns? Is blooding youngsters instead of more experienced players match fixing? These might be for the benefit of the club in the long term, and may not be done with the sole intention of losing the match, but will certainly influence the outcome, not unlike tryting players in difference positions…I fail to see a signifincant difference where one circumstance is ok, yet the other requires huge fines/expulsion etc…
August 2nd 2012 @ 11:42am
Gadjo said | August 2nd 2012 @ 11:42am | Report comment
It is a result of the system…so the system needs to change so any “perceived” reward isn’t there, if if the perception is incorrect. I think it is actually great that karma has Melbourne struggling thinking top draft picks are a quick win. A look at any team list will show while Round 1 picks are likely to be better, this is very often not the case. Melbourne is a great example of that.
August 2nd 2012 @ 2:24pm
hawker said | August 2nd 2012 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
system has changed they’ve removed the priority pick(at least from the first round)
August 3rd 2012 @ 12:14am
amazonfan said | August 3rd 2012 @ 12:14am | Report comment
Oh, please, karma has nothing to do with it.
August 2nd 2012 @ 4:37pm
Nathan of Perth said | August 2nd 2012 @ 4:37pm | Report comment
Because they’re not doing it in league with a betting agency or with a particular gambling result in mind, nor are they receiving undisclosed financial incentive from outside sources to do so.
These are the missing hallmarks of match fixing.
What Melbourne was doing was self-harm, frustrating masochism. A bet against sanity that sustained failure would somehow develop sustained success. Instead they are reaping what they sowed – failure. The off-field hits they’ve taken disrupted any ability to convert their draft picks into either the right players (poor scouting and recruitment officers) and then developing those players (poor facilities, trainers and assistant coaches).
August 2nd 2012 @ 11:08am
db swannie said | August 2nd 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Yep.
If both teams are not out there trying their best to win then there is no other conclusion.
August 2nd 2012 @ 10:44am
The High Shot said | August 2nd 2012 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Contrast the AFL’s internal, closed-doors investigation (whitewash) with the swift and decisive action taken against the badminton tankers just this week. The AFL doesn’t care for the integrity of its competition and seemingly neither do a lot of its fans.
They do care about spin and the appearance of a competition that can be followed in good faith. To declare that “The AFL thus doesn’t need to enforce rules and regulations on tanking.” is ludicrous and baffling to those of us who are used to seeing an honest contest on the field.
August 2nd 2012 @ 11:02am
GCS said | August 2nd 2012 @ 11:02am | Report comment
Its a bit different, as with the badminton it was the players tanking. In the AFL, there is no accusations of players tanking. The accusations are that the clubs put pressure on the coach(es) to make sure that the club was well placed for draft picks. They did this by playing players out of position, or resting players.
August 2nd 2012 @ 12:43pm
The High Shot said | August 2nd 2012 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
It certainly is different. In the badminton example, the offenders were punished.
August 2nd 2012 @ 2:46pm
GCS said | August 2nd 2012 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
It would be difficult to punish a club because they played some players out of their normal position. Like I said, there is no sign that the players weren’t trying.
August 2nd 2012 @ 4:42pm
Nathan of Perth said | August 2nd 2012 @ 4:42pm | Report comment
Also it’s easier to spank 8 individuals with no direct support than it is to go after an entire club with tens of thousands of members and a host of general support.
And its much easier to point at someone directly serving into the net in one game and say ‘you’re doing the wrong thing’ than it is to parse the vagaries of match selection and positional play. After all, one man’s hobbling a player is another man’s trying desperate options to see if something will click.
We can all say that we know what Melbourne was doing, but providing a definitive case for the matter is quite another thing.
And further, if they punish the club, what does that do beyond kicking a club on its knees already? The whole thought is counter-productive. The differences in factors, stakeholders and inputs between the two situations is vast beyond meaningful comparison.
August 3rd 2012 @ 12:32am
amazonfan said | August 3rd 2012 @ 12:32am | Report comment
If you’re going to punish Melbourne, you would also have to punish Essendon, Richmond, Carlton, and Collingwood (among other clubs). Unless you didn’t care about being consistent, and only wanted to go after Melbourne for doing what numerous other clubs have done.
August 2nd 2012 @ 4:44pm
The High Shot said | August 2nd 2012 @ 4:44pm | Report comment
So now we’re to pretend that playing players out of position (for some reason) is the only thing we’re talking about? Maybe the behind-to-goal ratio could be more closely examined… nah just kidding. That part seems to be pretty normal.
August 8th 2012 @ 12:23pm
micka said | August 8th 2012 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
That implies that individual players are happy to perform critical skills badly enough to lose the game and therefore risk becoming scape goats and voluntarily put their heads on the chopping block. Not many love their club that much. Besides who out of the players doesn’t want to win and ultimately win a premiership? I haven’t seen a team accused of tanking win a final let alone a premiership.
No player is going to risk a fat contract and non selection by not trying their best.
Besides accuracy is deplorable across the board. Buddy Franklin would have to be the worst and the Hawks are premiership favourites.
August 2nd 2012 @ 1:10pm
Sports Candy said | August 2nd 2012 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
There are advantages and disadvantags to having a central controlling body like the AFL, one of the disadvantages is that they control the information coming out of AFL and even have their own media department to control the media.
Deliberately losing for political or financial reasons is a serious offence and teams have been banned from competition for doing it.
If you knew your team was going to want to lose the game because they would get a better deal from the AFL and had no chance of making the finals, wouldn’t you be tempted to gamble on the opposition?
Shouldn’t the betting agencies be concerned, if no one else is?
This is a serious issue that was brushed aside previously and hoped that it would go away, but plaudits to a professional player for being honest and coming out about it, despite the obvious repercussions from the central controlling body.
Once again you would suspect that the AFL will control the media, minimise the damage to their brand and just hope and wait till it all dies down again.
August 2nd 2012 @ 2:50pm
GCS said | August 2nd 2012 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
You’re living in some sort of fantasy land. The AFL don’t control the media. If they did, then they would have made sure that the Brock McLean interview on “On the Couch” never went to air.
August 2nd 2012 @ 3:28pm
tonysalerno said | August 2nd 2012 @ 3:28pm | Report comment
Tanking is done by a lot of clubs and not just Melbourne- but for the media to have the audacity to question GWS and Kevin Sheedy for tanking is absurd. The players are doing the best they can but do not have the personnel or the talent to compete with senior AFL players at the moment.
August 2nd 2012 @ 4:51pm
The High Shot said | August 2nd 2012 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
I don’t think GWS is tanking, they’re just a young side finding their way in an indifferent environment. Those boys are doing it tough and as we get reminded in every article about them they are very brave for doing so.
It’s baffling that the majority of fans online seem to shrug and say “yeah it happens, what are you gonna do?” Playing to lose is cheating and seems to be condoned or at least tolerated by all and sundry.
Very strange state of affairs for a code that screams about how “Australian” it is. Seems a pretty unAustralian thing to do, this playing to lose.
August 2nd 2012 @ 4:58pm
Brewski said | August 2nd 2012 @ 4:58pm | Report comment
@ High shot, pretty unusual that a bigtime RL fan like yourself would read every article put out about GWS …. hang on !, no its not…. LOL.
August 3rd 2012 @ 12:36am
ItsCalledFootball said | August 3rd 2012 @ 12:36am | Report comment
“The AFL don’t control the media”
I think you’ll find they do, particularly in Melbourne.
Remember the black ban on journalists who tried to expose drug cheats in AFL, they were denied access to talk to any players and banned from visiting any clubs.
August 2nd 2012 @ 4:24pm
Brewski said | August 2nd 2012 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
GWS has been ‘tanking’ all year, they have swapped a whole heap of players weekly to get more game time into young inexperienced players.
I am not sure whether you can call this cheating, and quite frankly it is extremely hard to prove, and FWIW many supporters will agree with it, if it means getting the number 1 draft the next season.
The problem being is the number 1 draft pick usually takes 3 years or so before he is any good, sides with nochance of making the finals have been blooding young players since time immomorial.
I have never heard of a side going out to lose on purpose as has been suggested.
August 2nd 2012 @ 4:42pm
The High Shot said | August 2nd 2012 @ 4:42pm | Report comment
Of course you haven’t heard of it. The 2009 investigation was done behind closed doors.
August 2nd 2012 @ 5:02pm
Brewski said | August 2nd 2012 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
Feel free to impart all your wisdom about this meeting behind closed doors, then perhaps you can toddle off down to Birchgrove Oval to man the barricades.
August 2nd 2012 @ 5:16pm
Gwils said | August 2nd 2012 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
If the blues lose an 8th consecutive series, serious questions will need to be asked then, after all, it’s only a two horse race,
August 2nd 2012 @ 5:22pm
Brewski said | August 2nd 2012 @ 5:22pm | Report comment
They lost again ?, wow, thats a bit fishy, isnt NSW the heartland of RL in the world, i guess they have had some betting scandals lately !.
August 2nd 2012 @ 5:31pm
The High Shot said | August 2nd 2012 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
Getting pretty desperate mate. Try to stick to the topic at hand if you can manage it. We’re discussing the compromised nature of the afl, a competition that seems to look the other way while teams deliberately lose matches.
August 2nd 2012 @ 5:53pm
Brewski said | August 2nd 2012 @ 5:53pm | Report comment
The only desperate person on this board, is you and a few of your mates who simply come here for no other reason than to sink the boot into Australian football, your posts must must be taken with a grain of salt, and therefore your posts will get the reply they deserve.
August 2nd 2012 @ 5:34pm
Gwils said | August 2nd 2012 @ 5:34pm | Report comment
Yes, I heard they lost again. In fact, one of their good pwayers, let the ball fall out of his hands only 10 inches above the ground, right at the end. Now if I asked my 18 month toddler to place the ball gently on the ground, she would get it right every time.
August 2nd 2012 @ 4:41pm
Gwils said | August 2nd 2012 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
GWS is the most extreme form of tanking we have ever seen in AFL histowy. They have played 18 & 19 year olds all season, and clearly had no intention of trying to win.
August 2nd 2012 @ 4:44pm
Nathan of Perth said | August 2nd 2012 @ 4:44pm | Report comment
They don’t really have other players, though?
August 2nd 2012 @ 5:11pm
EveryDayMan said | August 2nd 2012 @ 5:11pm | Report comment
As a Melbourne supporter, I agree wholeheartedly with a lot of what you have said.
But Buckley as a ‘ball magnet’ at Collingwood? That’s quite a stretch. Even die-hard Magpie supporters cheer when he gets the subs vest.
And if Valenti is so darn good, why hasn’t another AFL club picked him up in the two years since he was delisted?
August 2nd 2012 @ 5:28pm
Gadjo said | August 2nd 2012 @ 5:28pm | Report comment
As a Carlton supporter, I think Buckley was our best player when we turned them over the other month…set up at least 3 of our goals!!
August 2nd 2012 @ 7:55pm
kevinhawkins said | August 2nd 2012 @ 7:55pm | Report comment
Okay, I concede ball magnet is a bit of an over-exaggeration. But he averages 17 disposals a game, which would (this is the sad part) place him 6th on the list of Demon for disposals/game (above Trengove, Moloney, Sylvia and McKenzie). Obviously what he does with the ball matters more than how many times he gets it, but given the way the Dees are going he would definitely be handy at the club now. How Valenti isn’t being picked up makes no sense to me.
The point I was trying to make, however, was that persisting with these guys would have been more beneficial than experimenting with untried draft choices.
August 2nd 2012 @ 6:37pm
yewonk said | August 2nd 2012 @ 6:37pm | Report comment
OK BANNER COMpETION FOR WHEN YOUR TEAM NEXT pLAYS THE DEMONS
I WILL START OF. “TANKS FOR THE MEMORIES”
August 2nd 2012 @ 6:44pm
Brewski said | August 2nd 2012 @ 6:44pm | Report comment
How about we pass the hat around for a new keyboard for you !.
BTW wasn’t that banner used for Tadgh Kenneally’s last game.
August 2nd 2012 @ 7:10pm
yewonk said | August 2nd 2012 @ 7:10pm | Report comment
my p does not work, so i have to cut and paste every p you see me write. the caps is just laziness.
August 3rd 2012 @ 9:55am
Brewski said | August 3rd 2012 @ 9:55am | Report comment
i was only joking, sorry to hear it, xmas is a fair way off !.