Why A-League should introduce an FFA Cup
In recent weeks, both players and coaches of the A-League have called for more competitive games during each season. The obvious choice for many football fans is a knock-out cup, called the FFA Cup, ran on similar lines to the F.A. Cup.
A full blown knock-out competition on the scale of the F.A. Cup is both logistically and economically unfeasible at the moment but a smaller scaled down version can be achievable now.
Why?
The FFA Cup can give back to the fans what they truly desire, a knock-out competition. Not only for the rusted on fans but the casual fan as well. Some casual football fans will make an effort to stay up to watch the F.A. Cup every year but not necessarily a regular season game. Why?
Because a Cup Final has a mystique and aura surrounding it that no other club game has. It also allows a connection to “old soccer” where fans of former NSL clubs have a chance to see their club playing in the limelight again against the best football teams that Australia can offer.
The FFA Cup offers the chance to heal some old wounds when the old NSL was discarded and the A-League was set up. This competition also allows for up to four extra games a year for the players to play at high intensity.
Who?
In the first few seasons of a FFA Cup, I would suggest the nine Australian A-League teams (I think, and I could be wrong, that the AFC won’t allow the Phoenix to play in an Australian knock-out competition) should play. As well, the six state champions from the various state leagues, plus the winner of a Northern Territory and A.C.T champions play-off to make an easy knock-out competition number of 16.
No doubt after a few years when the competition becomes more popular and more financially viable, that number can rise from the seven state and territory representatives to either a 14 team cross border knockout for those seven spots or a straight 32 team knock-out with the 9 Australian A-League teams and 23 teams from the various state leagues.
How?
In the first round of a FFA Cup, the A-League teams should be separated from playing each other. Although this sounds unfair, I can not see any media organisation wishing to buy television rights to a FFA Cup if it can’t guarantee the majority of the best teams making it through to the second round. And let’s face it, without a media organisation willing to pump money in to televise it, the competition won’t get off the ground.
The fixture should be drawn by pots like the F.A Cup with the first team pulled out of the pot to get home ground advantage over the next team pulled out. In the case of the first round, where A-League teams can not be drawn against each other, if say Melbourne Heart is drawn out of the pot first and then Brisbane Roar second, Brisbane Roar will be moved down to the next fixture, but still as the away team.
In the second and third round, A-League teams can play against each other and the first team pulled out of the pot will have the home ground advantage.
The venue for the final is a tricky one. I hate the idea of the biggest stadium of the two finalists gets the final. I think maybe the team in the final that has scored the most goals throughout the knockout gets to host the match, whether it is a small stadium like Adelaide’s Hindmarsh Stadium or a bigger stadium like Etihad Stadium in Melbourne or Brisbane’s Suncorp.
If the two teams in the final can’t be separated by goals scored, it should then go on goals against etc.
When?
This is a hard one as most people seem to favour an Australia Day final, and although it sounds like a great idea finding time to squeeze in games prior to this date, it could be hard. Ideally the first round of the FFA Cup should be played a week or two after the state leagues have wound up to allow the current state champions a chance to compete when match fit.
To allow for this, the first weekend in October stands out for me. It is a public holiday on the Monday in South Australia, N.S.W. and A.C.T which means with a possible seven teams from these regions in the Cup, it allows the opportunity for one or two games to be played on the Monday afternoon/night of that public holiday.
This way fans can attend the games, as well as have a game or two in prime time for TV. The second round would have to be in mid-November. There is no special reason for that, except that it fits in nicely with no other major sporting events on.
The semi-finals could be played on the weekend closest to New Year’s Eve. I know the Central Coast usually play on New Year’s Eve, but the FFA Cup semi-finals could create its own traditions in time.
This will still allow the Mariners to play on New Year’s Eve if they don’t make the final four. The Final could be a celebration on Australia Day. As it is a public holiday across the country, it allows fans to either travel to the final or at the very least watch it on TV
Cost?
The two main expenditures for this competition will come from flights and accommodation. For the flights, I have allowed each travelling team 27 spots (16 players, 11 staff) and each person a $300 flight each way.
I realise a flight from Perth to anywhere costs more than $300 but flights between Sydney and Melbourne or Brisbane would be less than $300, so it evens out. More so if one of the ties is a derby i.e. Victory versus Heart or Central Coast versus Sydney etc, where no flights will be required.
For argument sake, if all eight visiting teams need to fly, it will work out as eight teams x 27 tickets x $300 x two (there and back) which equals $129,600 (rounding up to $130,000) for flights in the first round.
Half the teams in round two mean half the cost, a total of $65,000 (rounding up to $70,000). The same reasoning goes for the semi-finals, in which flight costs are $32,500 (round up to $35,000) and flights for the final will cost $16,250 (round up to $20,000).
So in total if we add up all the rounded figures, the total cost of flights comes to $255,000. That is $255,000 if every away team needs to fly and cheaper if some teams don’t. I almost forgot about the officials, you can add 4 officials per game (anymore can come from the local federation). 4 officials x 15 games of the FFA Cup x $300 flights x two(there and back) = $36,000.
Added to teams flights cost, the total flight cost of the tournament is approximately $291,000.
With the accommodation, I have assumed that a travelling team of 27 would need 15 rooms. One for the coach, captain and somebody else will have their own room while the others will share 12 twin rooms.
If a team requires 15 rooms at a cost of $300 per room for 2 nights (the night before and after the match), that comes to $9,000 per travelling team. That means accommodation will cost approx. $72,000 for the first round, $36,000 for the second round, $18,000 for the semi-finals and $9,000 to host the finalist.
That total comes to $135,000 for team accommodation. The officials will need four rooms for each of the 15 games, again at $300 a room, and the total comes to $18,000. That is a total of $153,000 for accommodation for players and officials. Again, that is if every away team and official needs to travel.
For other miscellaneous costs, add another $156,000 to round the total cost of the whole tournament to $600,000.
Funding?
We have a competition that I have costed at $600,000 and somehow we need to regain that cost. There are two main sources of funding, TV rights and naming rights.
Firstly, TV rights. Obviously Foxtel would be the main player in any TV rights as I could not see commercial TV being interested in telecasting round one or two of the FFA Cup.
Although the Semis and the final would be attractive to commercial TV, I can not see the FFA wanting to sell those games separately. Foxtel will be able to show all eight games of the first round, one on the Friday night, three games on the Saturday, two on Sunday and two on the Monday of the long weekend in S.A, N.S.W and ACT.
The four games of round two could be played over the November weekend to suit Foxtel’s TV scheduling, same with the semi-finals. The final can be shown in prime time on Australia Day to help Foxtel gain viewership for the game.
How much would Foxtel pay to have the rights to this competition, all 15 games? I would say the FFA should aim for $500,000 per year. It sounds like a lot and I know Foxtel probably won’t gain any new subscriptions based solely on the FFA Cup, but they could sell the final and perhaps the semi-finals to a commercial network for a simultaneous telecast to help recoup some of that $500,000.
The naming rights should be sold to help finance the competition. It could be called the “(insert name here) FFA Cup” with advertising and signage at all games. By having the naming rights from the beginning, it doesn’t allow traditionalist to not call the Cup by its sponsor’s name.
How many people referred to the ‘Sheffield Shield’ when it was officially named ‘The Pura Cup’ after Pura Milk and how many people still call Suncorp Stadium ‘Lang Park’?
By having the sponsor on board from day one, it allows the sponsor’s name to be directly associated with the competition. How much should the FFA look at for selling off the name?
I think it should look at $500,000 per year. If the Cronulla Sharks can get a $3million sponsorship deal for three years, considering they have not made the finals in the past few years and don’t have a national presence, I feel the FFA should be able to secure a sponsor with naming rights to the trophy for $500,000.
Another way funds can be raised is from the gate money. Clubs should share all gates, like in the F.A Cup, with the host of each tie sharing the gate 50/50 with the visiting team after costs (stadium hire etc).
The gates from the final should go straight to the FFA. If the final is played in say, Newcastle with its 30,000 seat stadium and each ticket to the final is on average $40 each, that is $1.2million for the gate before stadium fees and other costs.
In my plan the FFA will keep half of all profits from the FFA Cup to spend on grassroots programs and fund other football operations. The other half of the profits should go to prize money for this comp as well as the A-League proper, to encourage clubs to want to participate.
What do you think, Roarers?
Is it time for The FFA Cup?
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August 3rd 2012 @ 6:50am
Bee Bee said | August 3rd 2012 @ 6:50am | Report comment
Yes. Bring it on. FFA cup sounds fantastic.
Maybe we should do away with finals series. Premiership plate is decided on Points like most other comps. Final series which is essentially a knock out seperate comp can go now. FFA cup replaces it. Previous winners of GF now become Winners of FFA cup for those years.
And more free to air coverage.
Its an absolute shambles that Foxtel has exclusive rights to what is essentially the World game. Not the: (I’m sorry but only if you live near a stadium or can afford a Foxtel subscription game.)
August 3rd 2012 @ 7:12am
MV Dave said | August 3rd 2012 @ 7:12am | Report comment
No chance of getting rid of the finals series…and why would you want to? There are large crowds and exciting games with Grand Finals in particular being rippers. I have been to 3 at Etihad with all of the matches being dramatic and exciting with huge attendances.
The FFA Cup will come about eventually when the FFA can afford it. Hopefully that will be as early as next year but there is no way it should replace the finals.
August 3rd 2012 @ 8:15am
jbinnie said | August 3rd 2012 @ 8:15am | Report comment
MV Dave – Your comment is in the main a bit negative.What are your thoughts on a well prepared ,thought out, and expedited idea that asks the question that has been put before, for a competition that is crying out for more games,a longer “season”, and most importantly. a definitive “connection” between our winter and summer football.? Two years ago we had 2 highly placed executives touring the country, spouting about a national trophy, and then,since the Smith report,silence,and yet here,”Gurudoright” has taken the time to point out that an embryo competition could be played out on an extremely cheap budget.
Now before you castigate me on the Grand Final question let me point out that this article was aimed at the possibility of an FFA cup competition being formulated. Cheers jb.
August 3rd 2012 @ 4:11pm
MV Dave said | August 3rd 2012 @ 4:11pm | Report comment
Didn’t mean to sound negative…just don’t want the finals to be scrapped for the FFA Cup. When the FFA can get a cup organized l will be going to watch games no problem and yes we do need more games/longer season. Given the huge logistical problems l don’t think the FFA Cup will be easily organized and funded (if we want a genuine all encompassing straight knock out cup).
August 3rd 2012 @ 4:34pm
Tizzo said | August 3rd 2012 @ 4:34pm | Report comment
I would suggest keeping the finals series and using it like a League Cup competition. So we could have three distinct winners. The FFA Cup, the Premiership, and the League Cup. Which all winners, if different and not Kiwi, would be our representatives in Asia.
August 3rd 2012 @ 6:11pm
Kasey said | August 3rd 2012 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
I’m with you Dave, I don’t see the FFA ever giving up the ticket revenue it gets from the finals series not to mention the positive press it receives when great Grand finals happen as in the last 2 years. Why can’t we have BOTH a finals series and an FFA Cup?
August 3rd 2012 @ 11:37pm
jbinnie said | August 3rd 2012 @ 11:37pm | Report comment
MVDave – Note you did not pass comment on the “executive sales pitch” of 2 years ago when they did the country tour to assess the response.Anyone with half a brain can tell you that we will NEVER have an all-in draw type of competition that England can afford with their 400 x 150 mile geographical limitations. The cost would be hugely prohibative.However we have to think “outside the box” if we are to have an FFA cup and this is what “Gurudoright” has attempted to do with his offering. Credit where it is due. jb
August 4th 2012 @ 7:41am
MV Dave said | August 4th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Yes JBinnie my half brain confirmed to me that a straight Oz wide knock out cup is not financially possible in the foreseeable future.
You need to understand that professional football in Oz is still in its infancy, that we need to be careful and take appropriate steps to ensure the long term viability of the game. Over the past 2 years the game has under gone huge upheaval losing 2 HAL clubs, WC bid etc. So what seemed possible 2 years ago may need to be put on the backburner temporarily for the stability of the game.
Personally l would think a state knock out cup competition is feasible in the short term. That is each state has its own knock out cup (FFV run one now in Vic) which includes the HAL teams. When the time is right ie financial backing to cover all costs, then by all means link the various state cups into one bigger tournament with the final on Australia Day.
However even though l would love an Oz wide cup competition to occur…given the turbulent history of football in this country l am happy to wait until the time is right.
August 4th 2012 @ 7:56am
Kasey said | August 4th 2012 @ 7:56am | Report comment
I’ve had this discussion many times with my mate jb. I feel that the path to success is for the FFA to fund everything after the regional(State) qualifiers(funding transport, accom. and a small amount of prize-money). This would ensure that the FFA Cup was a success – It would be terrible if Team A from South Craplakistan decided that they couldn’t continue after winning their state cup because the costs associated with continuing were too prohibitive. All teams that win their state cup would thus get some sort of a payday. We talk of the “romance of the cup” but when you’re living from hand to mouth as many semi-pro teams are lower down the chain, financial incentives would be a huge boon for the game/Cup. Of course for FFA to fund everything after the State cup finals, we will likely have to wait for the new TV rights deal to be signed We’ve waited so long for football to get its sh*t together I personally can wait a couple more years for the FFA to get it right.
August 4th 2012 @ 9:17am
jbinnie said | August 4th 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
MVDave – First of all I would like to point out that I did not say you had half a brain,simply used a phrase often used in the English language to describe a ludicrous idea. Ok?
Kasey, in his reply to you, gets nearer the truth with his costings etc .but both of you have failed to pass comment on this original article written in good faith by a “rookie” contributor.
Gurudoright tried, in a lucid,detailed offering, to point out that a national cup competition could be undertaken for a far smaller budget than that inane “FA STYLE – ALL IN DRAW” format.
When I ‘butted in” it was simply to point out that his format could also make a huge contribution to uniting our summer/winter football seasons into an extremely strong united body.
This is what upsets me,that is a desirable target that our top people should be striving to attain, for then,and only then,will the real potential of Australian football be realised.
For Kasey- Available funds? Don’t forget the FFA has poured a reported millions of dollars into their North Queensland “experiment” and the bailing out of other identities in past seasons.That money should now be available for other reasons. A Cup competition as described above would be seen as another huge step forward for our game, no?????.jb
August 4th 2012 @ 9:38am
Kasey said | August 4th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
jb,
I always get the impression when we have this conversation that you think the FFA has more money than I think they do. Sure they had to support NQFury for a season and they don’t have to now, but have you forgotten WSW? There would be significant start up costs for the new team. This is why I strongly advocate waiting(yes more time) until the HAL has stabilised at 10 solid teams.
I feel that this will occur when the FFA to HALclub dividend rises to cover the whole salary cap. Other FFA outlays include the qualification phase of the World Cup, which means a lot of outlay for team camps and warm up games, all on the hope that enough fans will come out to support the Home Socceroos games to cover costs, not to mention the hope of qualifying for the FIFA pay-day that comes from getting to the final 32. I just don’t think that any evidence exists that the FFA is in any position to underwrite an FFA cup such that no team has t withdraw because they can no longer afford to continue. Not just yet. By the time the next TV deal is signed, WSW will either be self sufficient or under new ownership, the National team will have either qualified or not for Brazil. The timing just seems better from a financial point of view for FFA not to rush into an FFA Cup, but to wait until the timeframe indicated by Lyall Gorman when he was still involved at FFA 2013/14.
August 7th 2012 @ 5:32pm
PeterK said | August 7th 2012 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
Folks, I’m hoping the FFA are playing cagey by keeping very quiet on any KO Cup comp until AFTER the next TV deal. Then, when that’s all done and dusted (without any mention of a KO Cup) then an EXTRA TV deal might be done just for the KO comp.
My feeling is that that course of action would result in more dosh in total.
August 3rd 2012 @ 9:06am
Ian Whitchurch said | August 3rd 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
” I hate the idea of the biggest stadium of the two finalists gets the final.”
If you need the money to come into the tin, you need to do these sort of things. Accept it as part of professional sport and move on.
“In the first few seasons of a FFA Cup, I would suggest the nine Australian A-League teams (I think, and I could be wrong, that the AFC won’t allow the Phoenix to play in an Australian knock-out competition) should play. As well, the six state champions from the various state leagues, plus the winner of a Northern Territory and A.C.T champions play-off to make an easy knock-out competition number of 16.”
Nope. If you’re going to do a local FA Cup, go all the way. Any registered association football club can enter by paying, say, a $1000 registration fee.
The initial regional stages, before the A League clubs are introduced, is what determines your other teams, rather than just qualifying the State champions.
As far as costings go, I’d have a careful look at the accounts of the NT Thunder, in the NEAFL. They fly their team from Darwin to Brisbane, Alice Springs and so on about 12 times a year.
Their 2010 annual report is here – their total travel expenses were $400k for 2010. I’d say you’re grossly overestimating travel and accomodation costs – if you’re buying seats or rooms in bulk, you simply dont pay $300, and thats without arranging a sponsorship deal with a hotel chain or an airline.
http://www.territoryfc.com.au/index.php?id=109
“How much would Foxtel pay to have the rights to this competition, all 15 games? I would say the FFA should aim for $500,000 per year. It sounds like a lot and I know Foxtel probably won’t gain any new subscriptions based solely on the FFA Cup, but they could sell the final and perhaps the semi-finals to a commercial network for a simultaneous telecast to help recoup some of that $500,000.”
I dont think you’ll get Foxtel to pay that in one hit in the first year, but you should be able to sell a bunch of minor-level sponsorships for the State qualifiers and so on.
This is worth doing. It can probably break even, especially if you get a hotel chain, a bus company and an airline as sponsors. Its a needed link between the A-League and the other levels of association football.
August 3rd 2012 @ 3:56pm
gurudoright said | August 3rd 2012 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
I know I have overestimated the cost of travel and accomodation, I just wanted to show that even at the extreme this is an affordable competition for the FFA to run. I personally don’t think that Foxtel would cover the $500,000 cost for the cup but I think if they sold to rights to broadcast the final simutantously with say channel 7, they could recoup $100,000 of the original cost. Just a thought
August 7th 2012 @ 5:35pm
PeterK said | August 7th 2012 @ 5:35pm | Report comment
Many good points Ian W.
August 3rd 2012 @ 9:11am
Budgeting 101 said | August 3rd 2012 @ 9:11am | Report comment
What about cost of ground hire, marketing, people, referees, logistics, prizemoney, disciplinary, etc, etc – I think your budget is a touch simple.
August 3rd 2012 @ 9:12am
mds1970 said | August 3rd 2012 @ 9:12am | Report comment
If you’re going to have an FFA Cup, the time to do it is to play the entire tournament as a pre-season cup in September.
Unlike in overseas tournaments like the FA Cup in England, not all the competing teams have their seasons simultaneously. The A-League season runs October to April, while the state leagues play during the A-League off-season. If a state league club was to go on a giant-killing run and go deep into the tournament, you’re asking amateur state league players to remain match-fit for a full year; even though by the next round they won’t have played a competitive game for a month.
By playing the entire tournament in September, the state league clubs will still be match-fit after their season, while the A-League clubs will be using the tournament to build up to match fitness. That would see a more even contest.
Fox would be happy to cover it. During September, the AFL and NRL finals are on; but FTA networks have the rights to them. The FFA Cup would give Fox Sports content for that month.
August 3rd 2012 @ 9:19am
Ian said | August 3rd 2012 @ 9:19am | Report comment
i agree with running the comp in full outside of the a-league season. preferably before the season starts.
and queensland from this year has a public holiday on the first weekend in october also. (we moved the queens birthday holiday from june to october this year)
August 3rd 2012 @ 9:23am
Gwils said | August 3rd 2012 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Good points by mds, I fully support the Idea of an FA cup, I would go to a soccer game
August 3rd 2012 @ 11:29am
oly09 said | August 3rd 2012 @ 11:29am | Report comment
I think the early rounds need to be played Sept/Oct so both the state league and A-Leagues are either about to start a season or just finished one.
Then the latter stages would need to be about Feb/March so the state league sides aren’t playing games in the middle of their off-season.
August 3rd 2012 @ 12:49pm
wisey_9 said | August 3rd 2012 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
not sure about the NRL rights (which will change soon anyway due to the impending deal) but Fox Sports have the rights to all the AFL finals bar the Grand Final, plus all of their magazine shows, plus the Brownlow. They certainly have enough content for September.
August 3rd 2012 @ 9:19am
Roscoe said | August 3rd 2012 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Ian- Victoria already runs a FA Cup style comp so winners of that would progress, a natural reward. Don’t know if other States have similar comps. In Victoria it works well with regular “upsets”.
August 3rd 2012 @ 10:33am
Griffo said | August 3rd 2012 @ 10:33am | Report comment
Northern NSW has a knockout cup, The State Cup, completed mid-July this year.
I think most states have a knockout cup of some form. To me that part of the knockout competition is already sorted. Cup winners can go on to face A-League clubs in the FFA Cup.
If more teams are needed, then State clubs that win their respective premiere leagues can be added to build more numbers but realistically the FFA does not need to do anything within the states for the FFA Cup unless the FFA wants to control the whole process.
I had not thought about running the Cup within a few weeks as more of a tournament but that would bridge both winter and summer, grassroots and professional football together, as well as giving games for A-League clubs to face in pre-season.
August 3rd 2012 @ 9:41am
whiskeymac said | August 3rd 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
anything that shortens this off season is a bonus IMO.
August 7th 2012 @ 5:39pm
PeterK said | August 7th 2012 @ 5:39pm | Report comment
Hear! Hear!
August 3rd 2012 @ 9:56am
Midfielder said | August 3rd 2012 @ 9:56am | Report comment
FFA have already under taken extensive research into a Cup knock out competition … my understanding it is Australia wide and has state league teams and A-League teams coming in at various stages…
The starting time as I understand it is mid March with A-League sides coming in just after Easter …
The big item is cost and FFA have estimated it will cost [from what I can recall] 5 million and they want a sponsor before they proceed..
August 3rd 2012 @ 10:09am
Cpaaa said | August 3rd 2012 @ 10:09am | Report comment
Cant say that i like the FFA Cup as a pre-season tournament. As a preseason thing it kind of devalues the event.
Having clubs needing to play games during the A-League season may increase foxtel subscriptions and even more interest at the gates. It will also give more exposure to state league clubs still in the FFA Cup.
And the next point i hate to say it but …
the longer the FFA Cup goes into the HAL season the better the chances of having HAL clubs in the FFA Cup final.
This may change over the years as the competition grows, but for now do we really expect anything less?
August 3rd 2012 @ 10:34am
Az said | August 3rd 2012 @ 10:34am | Report comment
and how do you suppose you select those 6 state teams??? draw them out of a hat?
August 3rd 2012 @ 2:38pm
Paul said | August 3rd 2012 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
Australia has six states. Each state league or cup has a winner. I would have thought this was the easy part?
August 3rd 2012 @ 2:46pm
Gwils said | August 3rd 2012 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
What about the Act, NT and Norfolk Island?
August 3rd 2012 @ 3:09pm
Paul said | August 3rd 2012 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
How about NT and ACT play off for the 16th spot, as suggested in the article. And Norfolk Island could hold a referendum and become a full member of the Commonwealth of Australia if they wanted a crack at the FFA Cup…