How about some trans-Tasman sporting co-operation?
Roar Pro By Michael Warren, 15 Aug 2012 Michael Warren is a Roar Pro
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- All Blacks, Australia cricket, Cricket, Rugby Union, wallabies
Wallabies wing James O'Connor is tackled during the IRB Rugby World Cup Semi-Final between Australia and New Zealand at Eden Park, Auckland, Sunday, Oct. 16, 2011. The All Blacks defeated the Wallabies 20-6. (AAP Image/AFP, William West)
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The time has come. The ANZAC spirit needs to be remembered. Australia and New Zealand, in a sporting sense, can help each other and remain rivals.
There have been times when the rivalry between the two countries has been such that vindictive levels of upmanship have blurred the complete comradeship of each.
It has been said that, “put a Kiwi and an Aussie in a bar and within two minutes they will be at poking the lights out of each other. However, let any third party interfere and suddenly both are blood brothers who will take on the world together.”
Basically, this is true, for no matter how much stick and mud we sling at the other, when the chips are down, we really do watch each other’s back.
It is illogical therefore that we should not be taking advantage of the relationship that exists. Neither of us will admit that one country has better sports competitors than the other, yet by fact, we each have.
Australians have great swimmers and great cricketers with great competitions, all who excel at world games, and New Zealand has the same with great rugby talents from schoolboy to All Blacks and other sporting competitions.
There are sports where both countries share the accolades and where one country also has its nose in front of the other from time to time.
By training and participating cooperation, each country could and would benefit on the world stage, save millions of dollars each, and still retain their inter-Tasman rivalry if they only learned to cooperate with each other.
The Black Caps would certainly learn from their Australian counterparts if they were integrated in the off season into Aussie state teams and taught the games finer skills by being with master players.
The Wallabies on a contra arrangement integrated into teams during the NPC competition in New Zealand would get the benefit of professional trainer’s expertise that is given young New Zealand players up to and including All Black level.
Coaches included into the mix from both countries would enhance the performances of their own teams from the knowledge they would obtain by this interaction.
Cooperation can only boost both countries performances and provide better returns to both on world stages.
Whatever the sport, let us both look to removing the constant arrogant, “we have more medals than you” mentality and openly display the inter-relationship both countries have forged from brotherhood by our forefathers at Gallipoli.
We could then arrogantly declare to the world, “We have more medals than we used to have.”
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- All Blacks, Australia cricket, Cricket, Rugby Union, wallabies
August 15th 2012 @ 1:00am
allblackfan said | August 15th 2012 @ 1:00am | Report comment
MW, loved the last line.
I like what you said about the Aussies integrating into the NZ rugby competition.
Given the level of development happening over there (schoolboy, sevens,women, etc), I think the time has come for a more formalised arrangement to be put in place.
This can happen one of several ways:
1. a trans-Tasman competition (not my favourite option because of my kiwi pride and because of the administrative logjam it would create). NSW, Qld, ACT and Melbourne admitted into the competition with home and away games, games which could be offered up to FTA networks on a city-by-city basis in Aust (since it’s a new competition but FTA needs to come to the party)
2. Aust teams into the ITM cup — a possibility. Allow NSW, Qld, ACT and Melbourne to play (gradually, not all at once). The sticking point is that these Aussie teams will have to be subject to the NZRU, and NOT the ARU. The NZRU may not have the sharpest business minds but when it comes to onfield matters, they beat the ARU (and most other unions) hands down. This absolutely requires Aust investment into the ITM Cup (pay their own way) and they may have to play just the top tier (involving Auckland, Wellington and the other big unions)
3. The ITM Cup teams signal their interest in certain typesof players which goes into a pool — aust players wanting to play in NZ can then be matched against these teams. This has been happening for several years now. 2013 Waratahs and ex-Rebel Peter Betham will be a Tasman Mako this year!
4. The Aust provinces starting sending more sevens teams to NZ (or elsewhere around the Pacific).
5. Aust women do the same as the men — send players over to play in the NZ competition that’s coming up.
6. Aust schools offer scholarships for their students to spend a season in NZ playing rugby (don’t now if this actually happens now; it might!)
Just a few thoughts! Can go into further detail if needed
August 15th 2012 @ 3:37am
Paul said | August 15th 2012 @ 3:37am | Report comment
Pointless.
Things are fine the way they are.
Theres already the NRL, Transtasman netball comp, the super rugby, tri nations (rugby championships) in which both countries benefit from.
I don’t mind an Aussie team in the ITM cup but logistics and contracting players from another international union to another can be a problem but that’s why you have super rugby. Plus you have schools from both countries touring each other.
August 15th 2012 @ 6:31am
Darwin Stubbie said | August 15th 2012 @ 6:31am | Report comment
Aust teams into the NPC won’t work … The money isn’t there for it to happen … The provinces are running on tight budgets and can’t afford trans tasman travel – also an increase in teams would lengthen the NPC window which is tight enough now
But I’ve said for awhile now if the ARU were serious about building depth and developing players they should formalise a player scheme with the NZRFU and fund players into the NPC … the provinces will take them as they have in the past – but the stumbling block would once again be the clubs in Aust
August 15th 2012 @ 9:35am
Michael Warren said | August 15th 2012 @ 9:35am | Report comment
DS
This is what I am suggesting in that a number of selected players funded by their respective unions from country of origin and have those select players benefit by playing with players in a good competion with teams who have already got the mix of good players and newbies. After a stint of say 1/2 a season (replace them by a second group) with the team whilst the first group return to impart their knowledge to the teams and onto the higher levels ie Super, International etc.
BTW… Anything can happen if there is a will to do so especially when words “can’t and won’t” are replaced with “can and will.”
August 15th 2012 @ 9:40am
DingoBob said | August 15th 2012 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Surely this is alredy happening Christian Lealiafano has played in the NPC a couple of times now to great benefit. Matt Toomua played in the Currie cup agian to great benefit.
August 15th 2012 @ 9:41am
Michael Warren said | August 15th 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
True Bob, and already happens with many of our Island brothers playing in NZ teams.
August 15th 2012 @ 11:17am
Ryan said | August 15th 2012 @ 11:17am | Report comment
Brock James, James Hilgendorf and there was an Australian Sevens player his name eludes me all have turned out for Taranaki in the past.
I am against Australian teams being in the ITM cup but I’m sure Australian players could and would be welcomed into the Provincial including Heartland teams. Their wages however should be topped up by their respective home unions clubs.
August 15th 2012 @ 6:49am
Football United said | August 15th 2012 @ 6:49am | Report comment
If it was temporary maybe but Australia is going to need it’s own competition eventually and will have to stop relying on NZ and RSA.
August 15th 2012 @ 9:43am
DingoBob said | August 15th 2012 @ 9:43am | Report comment
Totally agree. We need to get our own house in order first which involves having our own 2nd tier comp to compare with NPC and Currie Cup. Until then you would have to ask what would be the benefit for the NZRFU and SARFU to have Ausies playiing their 2nd tier comps.
August 15th 2012 @ 6:52am
mania said | August 15th 2012 @ 6:52am | Report comment
this article is funny. in particular “Australians have great swimmers and great cricketers with great competitions, all who excel at world games, and New Zealand”… all MW could think of is rugby. lol. we did all right at rowing and sitting down sports in the olympics;)
anyway i fully agree with the aus vs nz rivalry. we btch and moan about each other but when life encroaches on the rivalry and a crisis occurs nz and aus’ true colours are shown. when aus has its annual bush fires nz firefighters are the first on the plane to come over and help. when christchurch had its earth quakes aus were the 1st to offer aid. we love aeach other as much as hate.
i’m against aus having a team in the ITM cup. it would dilute the quality of the ITM and its only just beginning to find its feet financially. however i’m all for integrating aussies into existing teams. less disruption and basically if the aus player (jus as this applies to all the other players) doesnt pull their weight then they get dropped.
August 15th 2012 @ 9:38am
Michael Warren said | August 15th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Was trying to avoid being “pickie” again here Mania and also trying to avoid the arrogance of suggesting that Aussie input would down grade the ITM. That point is utter rubbish. There as some fine athletes in both countries that would benefit from better tuition.
August 15th 2012 @ 7:30am
Matty said | August 15th 2012 @ 7:30am | Report comment
I highly doubt it. There are current comps in netball rugby and league that are sufficient enough.
Creating a transtaman comp for union would be very difficult for the reason as stated above. A better solution for Australia’s rugby depth is to have players play in the ITM cup. Relying on league players hasn’t worked at all. The same thing in NZ has occurred where union players switching to league is unsuccessful. Instead you have players playing in the NRL.
I think we (nz) would benefit most having a transtasman comp in sports like cricket( although we do get far in cricket world cups), swimming or aquatic sports which have been poor in recent years.
The key difference between NZ and Australia is funding. This comes in the form of the AIS which has been the driving force behind Australia’s sucess at the Olympics after getting beaten by nz at the 1976 and 84 Olympics
. We do particularity well for a country with a small population and economy but it would be great to take it to the next step.
August 15th 2012 @ 10:19am
katzilla said | August 15th 2012 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Step 1 – Identify Talent in low socio economic areas at the 14-16 age group.
Step 2 – Fund scholarships for them to attend NZ rugby schools (be careful to avoid Maori and PI applicants as this may backfire)
Step 3 – Wait a few years, then profit when a raft of Australians enter into Australian senior rugby with the desired baseline skills to excel. (a few may turn out for NZ schools ala The Orc King of England, but should that happen OZ rugby will know they’ve got a winner)
August 15th 2012 @ 11:30am
kovana said | August 15th 2012 @ 11:30am | Report comment
Again i will spout this idea here in regards to a Trans Tasman comp by 2015, 2016.
Using the SR conferences, have 6 teams in the Oz and NZ conferences.
Oz will consist of the existing SR teams PLUS a 2nd NSW team
NZ Conference will have the top 6 NPC teams.
Now with the Remaining 8 NZ npc teams, you can add 2 Oz teams (1 from Qld and 1 from NSW again)… and Voila, you have a 2nd tier trans-tasman tournament.
August 15th 2012 @ 4:37pm
Michael Warren said | August 15th 2012 @ 4:37pm | Report comment
The problem with your option Kovana is that Aussie struggles with 5 SR teams already and needs the expertise to upgrade their pool of reserve players coming on, just as the Black Caps cricketing is similar to the standard of the lower echelon of Aussie rugby and needs the Aussie skill input. We are not trying to duplicate an NPC but simply enhance and better the playing skills of players.
August 15th 2012 @ 11:59am
Coconut said | August 15th 2012 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Nah, keep the shackle-draggers on their side of the ditch I say… just as long as we can sell our superior apples to them, and they come over and do a spot of skiing from time to time… then maintain the status quo I reckon.
August 15th 2012 @ 12:41pm
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | August 15th 2012 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
I didn’t know we sold apples to New Zealand.
Okay with this idea, I can certainly see what’s in it for Australian Rugby but fail to see where NZ would benefit.
I think we need to bite the bullet and realize that it’s US that has the problem and it’s US that needs to sort it out. Bludging off New Zealand has too many down sides, not the least being that we will be conditioned into believing that we just can’t make it on our own.
August 15th 2012 @ 4:40pm
Michael Warren said | August 15th 2012 @ 4:40pm | Report comment
The article is about inter-country cooperation in ALL sports that ned it Blinky. Read it!
August 15th 2012 @ 8:23pm
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | August 15th 2012 @ 8:23pm | Report comment
Actually Michael I did read it. Again & again.
I know there’s cricket, netball or what ever sport and yes we can all improve by resources & expertise. And in a perfect world without bills that need paying it’s fine but I’m only concerned with Australian Rugby. Okay?
Like it or lump it we are gaining a great already thanks to Super 15 & the Tri Nations and hopefully will more yet again with the Rugby Championship thanks to the Argies.
NZ Rugby supporters would be well justified in saying ‘get your own championship Australia’. And I for one would not be able to argue with them.
It’s Australia’s problem to fix. It may not be in a different guise to the Curry Cup or an NPC but we need something that we can develop players through. Leave the Kiwi’s out of it. They have already done enough.
August 21st 2012 @ 1:06pm
Dirty Socks said | August 21st 2012 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
The problem of cooperation between the two nations, usually means do it Australia’s way. NZ normally loses out on any deal made. Just look at what happened over the AIS which the pollies saw as a good opportunity for both to do something. At the frst hint of a NZ success at the expense of an Australian, it became a difficult environment where NZ was ffreeloading on Australian IP and were persons non gratia. On the other hand NZ already supplies a large number of very good rugby players to Australia.