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While all the attention, rightly so, is on the Bulldogs at the moment, and their hot streak doesn’t look like ending anytime soon, I still like the look of a fully fit Manly side to take out the title again.
Don’t get me wrong: the Bulldogs are playing really well, but remember, they did beat Manly without the Stuart boys playing, which is an important loss for them.
And the way Manly beat Souths on the weekend, coupled with the mix of talent they have and the experience the players got from their premiership win last season, they’ll be very hard to beat come finals time.
That said, I don’t make that call with a great degree of confidence, especially as Manly don’t have the same depth as they’ve had in previous seasons.
And the Bulldogs are playing very smart footy under Dessie’s direction, using their big players as halfbacks and their halfbacks as support players.
Throw in the punch and power of the likes of Pritchard, Morris, and Inu on the edges and the unpredictability of Ben Barba, who has been able to get them out of a fix several times this season, and they’re a pretty powerful unit.
The style of their play actually reminds me of how they played back in the 90s, when they had guys like Dean Pay, Jim Dymock, Darren Britt, and Jason Smith creating the play and using the same 3 pass move that Dessie has adopted this season.
Back then, too, they Craig Polla Mounter at halfback, who was a runner, not a ballplayer, and Rod Silva at fullback, another lethal broken field runner.
So there are parrallels to be drawn between the two eras.
One thing I am confident about, though is that under the new finals rules, a team will have to finish in the Top 4 at the end of the regular season to be in with real chance.
I base that on the past experience with the AFL, which the NRL finals system is modelled on, and where I don’t think a team has ever won the flag from outside the Top Four.
So if things remain pretty much as they are now, it’ll be Canterbury, Manly, Souths and Melbourne all fighting it out for the title.
And what will make even more fascinating to watch is that each of those teams play a very distinct style of football. It’s not like it was 4 or 5 years ago when most teams were mimicking the Storm’s style of play.
Instead, there will be four totally different approaches on show, which is a sign of good coaching and is great for the game.
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August 16th 2012 @ 7:26am
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 7:26am | Report comment
Me too Brownie, i think Manly will win it again as well. The salary cap is really working well for the powerhouse clubs. With Manly in the finals every year now for 7 years while other powerhouse clubs wither on the vine.
This is what happens with manipulation of the salary cap and big clubs trying to bring juniors through, while Manly continue to dominate this game, tens of millions in 2 huge cities are leaving the game in droves , people are not stupid mate.
The running of rugby league with its amatuer attitude is finally killing the game off, the game is eating itself.
A few years ago with Brisbane and Melbourne doing well, they had over 50 thousand at this derby at Suncorp, lets see what they get this Friday night in Brisbane, i bet it has dropped dramatically. The game is going backwards mate, the only people not awake to this is the NRL.
August 16th 2012 @ 8:12am
eagleJack said | August 16th 2012 @ 8:12am | Report comment
Are you going to the game oikee? I think you could do with the fresh air.
August 16th 2012 @ 8:31am
Schuey said | August 16th 2012 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Manly’s books get audited every year and face more scrutiny than ever after the Storm debacle.
Manly simply recruit smarter and have to let some of the good one go when required. So stop with the sour grapes please Oinkee.
August 16th 2012 @ 11:19am
apaway said | August 16th 2012 @ 11:19am | Report comment
So predictable…
August 16th 2012 @ 11:30am
Haz said | August 16th 2012 @ 11:30am | Report comment
There are more important things than money.
The football team has a really tight culture, a great majority of their players were graded at Manly. Of the present 17, only Jamie Lyon, Tony Williams, Joe Gulavao and Brett Kite have played at other clubs.
Recently, Brett Stewart said he really wanted to be a one-club footballer like Steve Menzies, and he’s turning down big $$$ offers from Irish rugby to do that.
August 16th 2012 @ 12:15pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
Of course their is, but i have to do the right thing for me and my family. Now, where have i heard that before.
Now dont you try to tell me rugby league is staying loyal, that went out the window years ago, and no one will believe otherwise now.
Money rules.
August 16th 2012 @ 6:48pm
Lost Earthling said | August 16th 2012 @ 6:48pm | Report comment
Brett Stewart obviously forgot about Bradford and Catalans when talking about Menies only playing for one club…
August 16th 2012 @ 6:59pm
planko said | August 16th 2012 @ 6:59pm | Report comment
The names is Menzies and most people still refer to one club players are ones that play for one club in the NSWRL/ARL/NRL …
August 16th 2012 @ 7:53pm
WobbliesFan said | August 16th 2012 @ 7:53pm | Report comment
Jesus Okiee, relax.
No use getting all hot and bothered over a side-show club like Manly. Their time will come, no ifs, no butts…..The league, CH 9 and all the power brokers will not let a small time, on-borrowed time, suburban club like Manly rule the roost at the expense of rating, gates receipts and the wider money-making good of the game….no way hose. Even those old timers like Ken Arthuson will quietly admit it….money talks, Manly winning premierships doesn’t equate too money for the league.
END OF
Outta ere….
August 16th 2012 @ 7:34am
steve b said | August 16th 2012 @ 7:34am | Report comment
Watch out for the Cowboys ,flying well under the radar ,the dark horse is not done yet ..
August 16th 2012 @ 10:00am
llieno said | August 16th 2012 @ 10:00am | Report comment
I hope you’re right steve b. Absolutely noone is talking up their chances and that’s the way I lke it.
August 16th 2012 @ 10:55am
Renegade said | August 16th 2012 @ 10:55am | Report comment
I am talking up the cowboys chances and decided to put some coin on them a fortnight ago.
Of all the teams in the 8, i think the cowboys and storm have the most improvement left in them.
August 16th 2012 @ 11:16am
steve b said | August 16th 2012 @ 11:16am | Report comment
Renegade yes i think everyone has forgotten about the lads up north they have a couple coming back of injury and i think they will be their at the end ,if they can maintain their defence,, because we all know they can score tries and yes they are at good odds ….
August 16th 2012 @ 11:42am
Albo said | August 16th 2012 @ 11:42am | Report comment
Problem is, they have been the dark horses for the past 7 years and made one GF !
Granted they have a better balanced team these days, but still missing toughness & ruthlessness to get through the semi’s IMHO !
August 16th 2012 @ 8:03am
Mals said | August 16th 2012 @ 8:03am | Report comment
Wow fans leaving the game in droves eh Oikee? I guess that’s what you get when doom & gloom fair weather supporters like yourself don’t get to the stadium & back your team. Are you going to blame the NRL for the Ponies injury toll & Wallace’s recent lack of form too? Harden up!
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August 16th 2012 @ 9:39am
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 9:39am | Report comment
Life is to short Mals. Did i tell you a few weeks ago i drove from Tootwoomba to Brisbane airport then back to the city of Brisvegas and only hit 1 traffic light stop. ?
That is progress mate.
Rugby league is a 2 state game, well one and a bit really, Brisbane codes are all on equal footing at the moment.
Melbourne has been left to fend for itself. Nz has had hardly much help until recently.
Most other codes have teams in every capital city. AFL has 2 in most cities, only really Brisbane left, this will happen, The AFL is switched on.
Pay tv allows me to record and watch games during the week if i missed any. This year i have watched less and less games, because i can tape a game if i dont like the team, and if results dont go my way, i just delete that game, or i dont watch that game. This allows me to make trips to Brisbane and other places, i do alot more with my time.
And i will do more again with my time as long as this salary cap is in place.
Same as Clive Palmer, he is not sitting around waiting for rugby league to wake up, he has other things to do.
August 16th 2012 @ 10:55am
Renegade said | August 16th 2012 @ 10:55am | Report comment
Looks like Oikee has gone back to Disneyland again….
August 16th 2012 @ 11:57pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | August 16th 2012 @ 11:57pm | Report comment
“AFL has 2 in most cities, only really Brisbane left, this will happen, The AFL is switched on.”
The Lions lose millions of dollars each year. Their attendances have dropped by a few thousand since the Suns came into the competition. Another team in Brisbane would kill the Lions off for good.
August 16th 2012 @ 11:59pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | August 16th 2012 @ 11:59pm | Report comment
oikee,
If the Clydesdales were brought back into the Queensland Cup then would you become a ticketed member?
August 16th 2012 @ 8:50am
planko said | August 16th 2012 @ 8:50am | Report comment
I will agree with you if the Sea Eagles make the four. If they win the next 3 games I think they will shorten.
August 16th 2012 @ 8:54am
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 8:54am | Report comment
You Mnaly fans are living in dreamland. The Salary cap allows your team to buy top senior players or keep all your core group while powerhouse clubs leak players to prop up the comp. Look at the Broncos and Storm, lost top class players every year for the last 10 years, Manly have never lost any class players, only retired players like Menzies and soon Kite. They have already raided the powerhouse clubs for replacements already. young sprint champion from Toowoomba, best young front rower from NZ and Cherry Evans was a back up half back they could keep from other teams.
This game and cap system is a joke, made obvious now with the retirement of Lockyer, the Broncos could not win a comp with Lockyer , they will never win a comp now without him.
Good luck to Manly, and the Sydney game, you have destroyed rugby league in this country, it is a weak 2 state game now, once Brisbane falls, the cowboys and titans wont keep the game alive. NZ is on its knees, nobody gives a bullocks about watching mnaly win the comp every year. Cheers, you have turned the game into a pile of bullocks.
The game has weakened or try to bury Melbourne, they have weakened NZ now the Broncos are on their knees, no thanks, people can watch and support proper run codes. Why get your head kicked in each year by a amatuer run code.
Rugby union has a better setup than league, and has a good international game that is growing,. League is a basketcase run by Mankly and rooster muppets.
August 16th 2012 @ 9:05am
planko said | August 16th 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
What top players have Manly bought from others clubs recently ? I agree we have retained a lot of players but there has been no big money recent purchases ? There has been alot allowed to go over recent years for big money … Hargraves , Cuthbertson , Hopoate’s there are several, Mona’s (not the dog one), Lussick , Whare , Kite looks getting squeezed.
August 16th 2012 @ 9:15am
Schuey said | August 16th 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
Orford was on big bucks and got let go to the UK, Tony williams going…
We stay on top by continually brining through new talent like Tafua.
Plus we are born winners up Manly way..the players buy into that when they arrive that and the fresh air, golden sandy beaches and hot chicks transform them into world beaters…
Sorry to break it to ya Oinkee your backing the wrong horse..
August 16th 2012 @ 9:38am
Mals said | August 16th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Manly’s last big signing was Jamie Lyon in 2007. Yep that’s 5 years ago!
August 16th 2012 @ 11:31am
Haz said | August 16th 2012 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Of the present 17, only Jamie Lyon, Tony Williams, Joe Gulavao and Brett Kite have played at other clubs. That’s saying something about Manly’s junior talent development.
August 16th 2012 @ 5:59pm
sean maguire said | August 16th 2012 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
Yeah we poach them when they’re juniors! Manly have some top players but we also have a lot of players on minimum wages and have to let go some good prospects i.e. Warea Hargreaves, T Rex, Daniel Harrison, Lussick etc plus the entire Hopoate clan. It’s not like we can keep all our players and pay them top dollar, unlike Brisbane who have the Thoroughbreds to support players. Lockyer was in their cap at around $200,000 or something mad because of all the outside payments.
August 16th 2012 @ 6:21pm
Andy said | August 16th 2012 @ 6:21pm | Report comment
August 16th 2012 @ 9:07am
Chui said | August 16th 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Nothing short of amazing how this Sydney run competition is in the hands of a Queenslander at the moment.
I guess it’s just pity and charity that the Broncos are given Friday night games more than any other team. What with a regular seven day turn around for recovery and increased exposure for their sponsors. Yep the game is really picking on them. Give me a break.
August 16th 2012 @ 9:10am
Schuey said | August 16th 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Oinkie,
Stop rambling. I’ll summarise your own posts for you : You think Manly are cheating the Salary Cap and the administrators are too incompetent to catch them or don’t want to and this is killing the game.
It just doesn’t stack up that Manly could cheat the cap and void detection, especially after the Storm brought focus on that area.
Surely u can see that??
August 16th 2012 @ 9:32am
mike from tari said | August 16th 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
This guy must be a stirrer, the Junior league in QLD is booming, Redcliffe have 900 kids playing, Union in redcliffe has 100 kids playing, so league is not going down the drain.
August 16th 2012 @ 9:32am
planko said | August 16th 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
He can’t see that Schuey fundamentally he is unaware of Manly’s plight. Many years since Manly’s rebirth Manly did not spend the cap. It would physically impossible for them to breach it. Manly just did not have the dough. Manly now are better due to on field success however they get no that is right NO support from the leagues club who actually sold there shares in the football team in the most recent financial year on revenue that would be half of the Broncos …. Yet somehow the Broncos who have revenue of twice of Manly’s of 12 to 13 million dollars can only earn their shareholders 2 mil in profits. In their profit and loss statement of last year they had Ticketing expenses of 7 million ? I know they sell alot of tickets but maybe the senior players dont get shoe money any more maybe they get ticket money ?
August 16th 2012 @ 9:37am
Mals said | August 16th 2012 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Oikee is bitter because the Ponies haven’t won a comp since 2006. Imagine if he was a Sharks fan or a Bunnies supporter. He doesn’t know the meaning of the word hardship!
August 16th 2012 @ 2:55pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
I dont mind the Sharks winning a comp, but if you think the Broncos, the most powerful club in the comp should go without premiership wins for 20 years, your dreaming mate. The Broncos should be winning every 5 years and in the top 4 every year. If we had a natarul run comp, allowed to be clean and free of any manipulations, then this would happen, and the Broncos would be the team to beat.
In your world you want a little Sydney club no one gives a bullocks about, playing another Sydney club nobody gives a buillocks about , in the fianl every year. You might as well run a Sydney comp?? like the game is now and let the rest of the country get on with running a true comp.
Super league anyone. ???
Stay amatauer i dont care, other codes will swamp rugby league, they are now.
August 16th 2012 @ 11:27am
apaway said | August 16th 2012 @ 11:27am | Report comment
Oikee, I have often read your posts with a mixture of bemusement and resignation. At least you’re consistent, even if you don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story. But your paranoia is becoming a little annoying to say the least. Others on this thread have already pointed out the players Manly have lost over the last few seasons, and the ones they have had to let go at the end of this season in order to stay under the cap. Yet you choose to ignore all this and continue your Oliver Stone-like conspiracy rantings. Here’s a news flash, mate: Ken Arthurson doesn’t run rugby league.
August 16th 2012 @ 12:11pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
Apaway, these guys have no idea what i am trying to tell them, because they are letting their emotions get in the way of what i am trying to tell them.
Look, the Broncos have a huge junior Nursery, they spend a million dollars a year on grassroots alone.
They also provide players for other clubs, we had taylor , Inglis we had to knock back, Kasiano and Cherry-Evans along with barba and many more are all allowed to go south for better money.
So along with not only the juniors, we also have a Queensland comp that is a feeder to many other teams.
The Broncos also have a few teams to support and feed from.
Now, if your a Mnaly supoporter this world is a million miles away from anything you understand, because Manly feeds no one but themselves. They just admitted this somewhere, we only bought a few players from other clubs,. yet their juniors all come from somewhere, and i can tell you, it is not Manly juniors, only 1 or 2 come from manly.
Now my opinion on this is that while the Broncos are spending huge amounts propping up Sydney clubs, because lets be honest, if we could spend on who we needed, the club would be top 4 every year, the competition will never grow to allow for a huge club like the Broncos to be their best. The Broncos are the largest supported club in Australia, make no mistake about that, behind the Maroons, they are massive.
Now, do you want the game to grow and prosper with brisbane carrying huge support because they can reach their potential, think Manchester, think Barcellon, or do you wish for our game to stay amatuer, with powerhouse clubs like Brisbane, NZ warriors and proabably Melbourne one day to keep propping up a weak run Sydney comp.
I put this to you.
And is why i will not let this go, ask yourself, do you wish for rugby league to stay a amateur Sydney comp, or sdo you want the code to become professional with all the big cities buying into the code.
I know it sounds hard, but you cant have it both ways, like the torso rule i keep asking the game to question.
August 16th 2012 @ 12:48pm
apaway said | August 16th 2012 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
So your solution is to get rid of the cap and ensure that the Broncos win the next 10 premierships? Yep, that’ll grow the game for sure! Every club has home-grown talent that has gone onto other clubs, the Broncos aren’t alone in this. And correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t they one game out of the Grand Final last year with a first-season coach and a retiring legend? Come off it, they have almost an entire rugby league-mad state as their catchment area, and can pick and choose the cream of that crop. Remember, it’s still their choice who they keep and who they let go. Are Ben Barba and Daly Cherry Evans better than the incumbent fullback/halfback at the Broncos? If so, why did the Broncos let them go if they were part of their feeder system? Neither player was particularly well-renowned before they got their chances at other clubs, neither were big money signings.
August 16th 2012 @ 1:11pm
Jimbo Jones said | August 16th 2012 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
Oikee, of course Brisbane cant keep all their juniors, and they are forced to go elsewhere to find a team that is willing to give them a spot because Brisbane only have 17 positions available. If Brisbane supported 2 or more teams, then these players wouldnt be forced to go elsewhere. (Whilst Sydney is supporting 8/9 clubs depending on how broad your definition is)
Wouldnt you prefer that Brisbane get the pick of the juniors, take the best, and then wouldnt you be happy that the rest can still find a way to fulfill their dreams and play at the top level? (even if it is for other clubs – whats the point in having a great player stuck in lower grades)
August 16th 2012 @ 2:09pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
I said nothing about getting rid of the cap. I said the way the cap is set up, the big clubs can never win because they will just keep feeding the weak Sydney teams who dont have enough juniors.
Look, Manly bring in juniors “ready to go, already trained up” from other clubs and areas, have them in the system and if they come good, they then let other clubs buy them for huge dollars. So Parra have to buy a player like Tony Williams who played a couple, of seasons at Manly, got to become a blue, now Parra have to pay top dollar for a junior who was originally at that club. ??
Come on, you cant see anything wrong with this, and Manly get mostly the best juniors from everywhere. So these juniors are sold back to the clubs who brought them through for huge amounts, so the clubs bringing through these juniors get to suffer twice.
Come on, do you really think that nobody can see this, work out what is happening while this game runs under the guise of a fools salary cap.
I have not mentioned anywhere about getting rid of the cap, i have said that this salary cap is flawed and needs fixing.
Clubs who bring through their own juniors should also be rewarded, maybe have them exempt from the cap. It needs to be fixed, at least looked at.
I never said kill the cap, i said clubs who want juniors or have to get juniors from other areas have to be made to pay for the privillage.
It will even out the comp again, at the moment it is designed to keep the big clubs flundering as whipping boys,. No club fears the Broncos anymore, it is like banking 2 points each week.
Same as the warriors, 2 points in the bag.
This system is flawed, and the game will never grow if we keep this system in place.
Now surely you can see this, mate i could run this by Lawyers and business people and every last one would agree with me.
August 16th 2012 @ 2:17pm
eagleJack said | August 16th 2012 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
oikee Williams is going to the Dogs. So Parra are not buying him back. Again facts are clearly not a pre-requisite in your rants.
So let me get this straight. On one hand you are lambasting Manly for keeping their players. Yet on the other you are lambasting the NRL for not allowing clubs the opportunity to keep all their players.
August 16th 2012 @ 2:18pm
planko said | August 16th 2012 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
You are right Oikee Manly should get money from the Dogs for shining their rough diamond !
Bring it on Oikee the transfer system you are refering is already in soccer Manly would benefit greatly … We buy discards from you like DCE for next to nothing and sell you DCE back to for a million as you need a halfback … Good option bring it in Oikee …
August 16th 2012 @ 2:26pm
apaway said | August 16th 2012 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
But they’re JUNIORS, Oikee, and clubs take a punt on their potential. How can you criticise clubs for doing that? And who are Canterbury paying for the privilege of signing Tony Williams? Not Manly.
August 16th 2012 @ 2:33pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
Ok sorry, he is going to the dogs. But still, it remains the fact that other clubs have to pay top dollar for losing juniors to Manly, while they can just keep getting juniors for nothing and bringing them through their system. So they now have a endless supply of juniors and they can pick and choose the best and let the expensive ones go. They replaced Hodgkinson with Cherry Evans, Williams with probably senior fringe players, i will find out, and the wingers all get replaced by juniors they already have brought in from other clubs.
Look, i will sit down and do the whole form guide for Manly’s deception if you like, i will make it my mission to prove this system is flawed.
The Broncos are now at 6 years and counting for a premiership, Manly is still at the top niot missing a beat while the warriors are gone. Could be another 20 years before the warriors win anything, and you find nothing wrong with that. ?
Good luck with your ignorence.
Apaway, they can take a punt on as many juniors as they wish for very little outlay. And they can grab as many top class juniors as they like, again, they are not having to pay anything, just lure them with promises of a lifestyle, this has got to stop. They must have to pay so they cant just strip all the good juniors from everywhere then cherry pick the ones they want to keep.
Anyhow, i have tried to expalin the problem, if this system and the way they can just allow juniors to move without any reward to clubs who have had to spend huge amounts of time and effort to bring them through, dont expect fans to stay loyal, why should they, most can see what is happening, is why crowds are going backwards. Anything under 50 thousand to Storm Broncos this week will be negative.
I just knocked back 2 free tickets to the game, someone is not going so their is 2 certain empty seats.
August 16th 2012 @ 3:07pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 3:07pm | Report comment
Dont be fooled either Apaway, you might say having the Broncos win 10 comps might not grow the game, are you also saying having Queensland win 7 origins wont grow the game. ?
Mate, Queensland holds the key to the games growth, NSW have to let go, let Queensland become the powerhouse it is certain to become, Mate we have Clive Palmer, we have a city who wont take second best as a option.
Sydney will thrive off Brisbane being strong, as it does in origin now. We are the benchmark Sydney cant stand seeing in front, for Queensland teams to prosper is good for the game, not bad mate. Your thinking is backwards.
Apaway, mate, i revolved my whole line of thinking after my second marriage and found out i was a fool before then.
Until you find someone who can change the way you think, you will always look at a glass and call it half empty. ?
See you get me wrong, i love the game and want it to prosper, but it cant the way it is run now. If you sat down with the right peiople they probably could explain it better than me why it wont grow under this banner, the way it is being run.
August 16th 2012 @ 1:19pm
The Barry said | August 16th 2012 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
You’re full of it Oiks. The Broncos didn’t let Barba go. They turned him away because he was too small.
Brisbane have first dibs on the biggest junior nursery in the country. They’ve been able to keep players for year at reduced pay because they don’t want to leave Brizzy. You’ve had a whole state worth of sponsors pretty much to yourselves to top up players contracts so you can get Lockyer into the salary cap for $250k.
Broncs get every Friday night game and the improved preparation that goes with it.
The Broncos are going through a temporary form slump.
August 16th 2012 @ 2:22pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
I have explained myself openly throughtout this whole blog, if you cant see the problem then maybe i cant try to explain this to you.
This is coming from a top level company that works in the law industry. So you go tell them they are full of it smarty pants.
And stop telling porky pies about Lockyer, i have said many times every has seen what the Broncos were being paid, the cuorier mail ran the complete salary cap for te Broncos in a weekend edition a couple of years ago.
Lockyer was on around 700 thousand and made 400 to 500 thousand sponser money, after all he was the Queensland australian and Broncos captain, now stop making up stories.
August 16th 2012 @ 2:28pm
NF said | August 16th 2012 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
oikee I think it be good if the paragraphs you write in various league threads should become articles so they can be fully noticed by the league public since your opinion is unique and interesting. If anything the way you write you be on the expert side is no time lol.
August 16th 2012 @ 2:50pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
I can also tell you Lockyer was underpaid, after seeing Wallace trying to run the ship.
Lockyer was carrying Wallace, and the Broncos have buckleys and none of winning a comp for at least 10 years, or until we find or buy a Lockyer.
Bringing through juniors gets you know where.
Kids cant beat a team of internationals and origin players right across the park as in Manly.
The system allows Manly to keep all these players and bring through the best juniors in the country, the system is flawed, flawed i tell ya Brownie, no wonder you got out.
August 17th 2012 @ 12:17am
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | August 17th 2012 @ 12:17am | Report comment
Sydney are should have no more than 6 clubs in its metro area. Brisbane should have at least 3 clubs in its metro area. There should also be a club in central QLD. That would bring the total amoutn of QLD clubs to 6. Put the Dragons in Wolloongoog, leave the Knights in Newcastle, put the Bears in Central Coast and have 6 clubs in Sydney metro. Do that and the problems oikee talks about will disappear.
August 16th 2012 @ 9:15am
turbodewd said | August 16th 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
There is one crucial difference between the AFL top 8 and the NRL top 8 – State of Origin. SOO effectively cuts the NRL season in half and makes the first half completely different to the 2nd half…accordingly the top 8 of the 2nd half of the season vs the actual top 8 can be quite different. In the NRL the form over the last 4-5 rounds is the best indicator of things rather than the top 8.
August 16th 2012 @ 9:35am
mike from tari said | August 16th 2012 @ 9:35am | Report comment
Brownie, my money really is on Souths got them at 20 to 1, so I’ll either win a motza or lose a Motza but after all these years it was good to put some brass on them to win a premiership.
August 16th 2012 @ 10:00am
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 10:00am | Report comment
LIke i said, Manly ‘s roster is much the same as it was 7 years ago. I seen the same old faces and players i did in a early 2005 game as i see now. The Broncos have gone through 2 player rosters since then to try to stay under the cap, yet somehow Manly just keep on keeping all their major playing roster.
If you look at the players Manly have let go to other clubs, most go off to super league and have not won much at all, or they go to clubs where they seem to fail.
If Brett Stewart was on the market, what would he be worth, i would be happy to buy him for 500 to 700 thousand a year, same as Jamie Lyon, yet somehow these players are staying at Manly on cut price money. ??
In my world i have never seen anyone take less money , if your offered more you take it, Inglis went to the Bunnies because of more cash. Are Manly players the only people in this world on less money.
Come on, this is nonsense, surely people reading this must have questions, big questions on this salary cap and the damage it is doing to this amateur game.
Hoparte and Williams were on bugger all, they only stated to play well before they were about to hit the market ,willing to pay huge dollars for them, so Manly freed up very little money, yet somehow keep upgrading players who are on big money now.
Look, i dont even care about Manly anymore, i am more worried about the Broncos failing to win anything. They cant under this cap.
Petro is finished after him helping out the Panthers because of the cap, Lockyer gone, we replace them with kids while Manly just reap and pillage at will.
Broncos are replacing kids with kids, same as the warriors, most other clubs replace seniors with internationals. Bulldogs somehow could buy 2 internationals, while Warriors and Broncos are finding out the hard way, this cap system is flawed, and it will only get worse.
Des Hasler is doing the same at the dogs now, he knows this system and is exploiting it thanks to Gallop.
Gallop has moved on, now the game has to move on as well, change this hopeless system designed to keep Sydney strong while the rest of the country is in flames, burning Brownie.
August 16th 2012 @ 10:07am
planko said | August 16th 2012 @ 10:07am | Report comment
You did not read my list of players and they all left for big money. The Stewarts will stay for less money they could earn more elsewhere cause they both owe Manly for different reasons. . Watmough would not play against Manly. Menzies would not play against Manly. How can you earn more money elsewhere if you refuse to play against them. People like this yes one club men inspire people to stay when you not hogging the whole cap like Lockyer was. You know his head never came up from the trough. Great player i know but was he worth it. Ask Newcastle half you cap on one player…. Was it worth it ?
August 16th 2012 @ 12:14pm
apaway said | August 16th 2012 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
I played sport professionally once upon a time. I stayed at a club for less money than I was offered to go somewhere else because I liked where I was.
Which big money signings did Manly “reap” (rape?) and pillage to replace Williams and Hopoate?
August 16th 2012 @ 12:41pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
Good, now we are getting to the nitty gritty of my argument.
Hoppa was a junior, Williams only became a decent player the last 2 years, before they had to renew his contract. I am still not convinced Williams is any good outside the Manly enviroment, protected by quality players, plus he was a Parra junior i think..
Anyhow here is the gist of what i am getting at. Manly just reap the best juniors from NZ and Australia they can find, without any compensation to the clubs who have developed these juniors, Manly did not put any work into Sao, or any other juniors. They just walk in and offer them a lifestyle.
And while clubs like canberra and Cowboys and others cant offer this, Manly reap and pillage by having something a kid wants. They pay nothing for this, only chicken feed.
And Brisbane never gets rewarded for not being able to keep all the juniors, Warriors can’t keep them all, Manly know this and like vultures prey on the weak, the game allows this to happen. The salary cap is destroying the big clubs. They can never win because even when they keep some qaulity juniors, the Sydney teams can buy good senior players to fill their rosters.
The only way to fix this is make the clubs pay the teams who bring the juniors through, at the moment they pay nothing and reap all the rewards, Nuff said, i have now made my point.
Why can the Roosters who are battling with the spoon, and the Warriors who are struggling with juniors, lose 2 internationals to the dogs who dont suffer at all.
This system sucks, you cant tell me otherwise. And i clearly seen what was happening after Lockyer reitred and it became obvious, Wallace is a pasenger, our team is full of juniors who have no idea how to win games.
Warriors, same boat, and they were last years finalists.
Fans will be packing their bags if this keeps up. Who can blame them, they have never had this lop sided contestr to deal with, and the light at the end of the tunnel is non esisitent.
August 16th 2012 @ 1:02pm
apaway said | August 16th 2012 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
The problem with your logic is that Brisbane DO get rewarded by having that many juniors to choose from in the first place. If they let talented juniors slip and keep duds, who’s fault is that?
If Williams “only became a decent player in the last two years”, who gets the credit for that? I’d say its the club that made him decent. And guess what, next season they’re losing him, and getting the same amount of compensation as the Broncos. Will Hopoate, local junior, going to Parramatta. Compensation? No.
Selling a lifestyle? So what do you suggest – concreting over the northern beaches and giving everyone a chance? You know, players can live anywhere they want these days, it doesn’t matter what club they are playing for.
August 16th 2012 @ 1:26pm
The Barry said | August 16th 2012 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
You’re a nut.
Perrett is not a Roosters junior and Inu is not a Warriors junior.
They didn’t ‘lose’ those players they chose to release them.
Inu was regarded as surplus to requirements.
Perrett was offered a long term deal and the Roosters chose not to stand in his way.
August 16th 2012 @ 1:49pm
eagleJack said | August 16th 2012 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
Shhh… don’t let the facts get in the way of a “good” oikee story
Apparently every player born in QLD must play for the Broncos. And if they are surplus to their requirements then too bad. The kids will be forced to choose another sport. Cause if the Broncos can’t keep them then nobody can have them.
Cherry-Evans was overlooked by the Broncos. Came to play Toyota Cup for Manly for 2 years. But didn’t get a first grade contract so went back up to the Sunshine Coast Eagles. His manager shopped him round to every club but nobody wanted him, saying the only reason he looked good in Toyota Cup was because of Foran.
Through dumb luck, the Bulldogs bought Hodkinson and Manly offered DCE an $85k contract to come back down south. But somehow Manly are at fault in all of this for “stealing” DCE from the Broncos
Riiiiiiiiiiighto………
August 16th 2012 @ 2:34pm
planko said | August 16th 2012 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
Eaglejack that is actually the same story I have heard but Oikee wants him back now he is good. Well if we bring the transfer system that Oikee suggests manly would make a killing they would have made DCE play out most of his contract at a bargain basement price then sell him Brisbane for a cool million… Eagle this is all good. LOL
August 16th 2012 @ 4:48pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
Bullocks, under my system cherry evans would be the back up half for the Broncos, if Manly wanted him, they would have had to pay top dollar, and that might have stopped Cleale (scout)from going around stripping clubs of other top juniors for nothing, you really want me take the gloves off. ??
August 16th 2012 @ 4:52pm
Michael Culina said | August 16th 2012 @ 4:52pm | Report comment
Actually, yes! Please, PLEASE take the gloves off! Every one of your arguments has been hit head-on and belted out of the park and it’s been made clear you’re in the minority here, so I would love the chance to respond to what it is you really feel!
August 16th 2012 @ 4:02pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
Barry, i ask you to read my posts carefully, i have reread my post and it does not say that Perrit or Inu were juniors at these clubs.
I seem to have to reply to you lot about misreading my posts, along with others. I might have to space the paragraphs out further so we all on the same page.
Perrit and Inu were bought by the dogs, weakening the Warriors and Roosters who, who had to use juniors to prop up their teams.
The results, the Warriors are being absolutley flogged because they have juniors running the team, and the Roosters are headed for the spoon.
They also have alot of jjuniors in their team.
Now, please mate, read the post correctly, i have a hard enough time fighting off a whole blog of league supporters i am trying to help, no one is on my side mate.
Then i have all the other codes after my blood,.
August 16th 2012 @ 12:30pm
Michael Culina said | August 16th 2012 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Oikee are you serious??? “Manly’s roster is much the same as it was 7 years ago”???
Out of the current squad, only six players were with Manly in 2005. King, Kite, Matai, Watmough and the Stewarts. All will most likely end their careers as one-club men which is a feather both in theirs and Manly’s caps.
I’d say most clubs have probably 4-6 players in their current teams who were there seven years ago.
I would say that Manly’s ability to hold onto these players has been due to a couple of factors on their part, such as moving on older players who they’d otherwise rather keep (Luke Williamson, Menzies, Monaghan for example) as well as building a team around a few key players to continually succeed over a number of years. With the six players mentioned above that’s a top-quality fullback, centre, props and back row ready-made. Throw in some gun halves (Foran and DCE since last year, Monaghan and Orford in years past) and there you go.
You have to remember that if players want to stay for less money because they either love the club or love being around their teammates, that’s their choice. Just because Brett Stewart is offered “x” to stay at Manly and “x plus $200k pa” by another club doesn’t necessarily mean something sinister is afoot when he chooses to take the less-financially-rewarding offer. Staying at Manly could be rewarding in other ways, you know.
August 16th 2012 @ 12:54pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
As i said above, and yes, i agree, with the Manly lifestyle, many kids would want to live in manly, yet Manly dont have to pay anything to clubs losing all these talented juniors, while club like Canberra cant get any players for a frosty lifestyle. Manly have to pay for juniors, all clubs should start paying for juniors, or why should clubs like the Broncos and warriors even bother bringing any through.
Like i said, the Broncos are spending big money bringing all these kids through, only to have them cherrypicked, .
August 16th 2012 @ 1:03pm
Michael Culina said | August 16th 2012 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
Hoppa was a junior, Matai was spotted playing Qld Cup and going nowhere, the Stewarts went to Manly and played several seasons of reserve grade before making the top team, Watmough and King were juniors. Kite was really the only one that was poached out of that six.
That’s just the way the game goes mate. Sure, Manly can offer a great lifestyle, but so can North Qld…great weather, no winter really, away from the fishbowl existence of Sydney, enthusiastic and supportive fans who are so dedicated they drive hundreds of kilometres every second week just to see the team play…sounds pretty good to me. Each club can offer extras of some sort, for example cost of living in Brisbane would be cheaper than Sydney and it’s close to the Gold Coast and all it offers so who’s to say that wouldn’t be a relevant factor?
The Broncos have always had a large junior base to pick from and they have scouts working the whole state to spot talented players early. And the club has been pretty successful since it was born in 1988 with 5.5 premierships (the half being Super League) and a constant top-four performer for the past decade or more so I can’t really see how they can never win, as you put it…
Brisbane will win another premiership before too long, and similarly Manly will fall away at some point. It’s the cycle of the modern game. But to suggest Manly have an unfair advantage over clubs like Brisbane and the Warriors for the reasons you outlined is just plain incorrect.
August 16th 2012 @ 4:13pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 4:13pm | Report comment
It is not only about Manly, i am saying all clubs should have to pay for any juniors, the scouts who run around and cherry pick the best kids from around Australiasia.
You cant keep expecting powerhouse clubs to sink millions into youth, junior comps, or whatever and have them taken for nothing, and then used to berat them, year after year after year.
Look, it has only come to light, i have just worked out what is happening. Yes, you read it here first, i have seen what is happening and telling you what is happening. The salary cap is a complicated beast, it saw Melbourne stripped of titals, and now it is seeing the powerhouse clubs on their knees, do nothing, the Sydney comp will wither,
Ok, that is as clear as i can make this appitheny, awakening, lightbulb, whatever you wish to call it, i seen the light.
August 16th 2012 @ 4:17pm
Michael Culina said | August 16th 2012 @ 4:17pm | Report comment
“This system is flawed, and the game will never grow if we keep this system in place. Now surely you can see this, mate i could run this by Lawyers and business people and every last one would agree with me.”
Well I am a lawyer, and I don’t agree with you. The system isn’t perfect but I wouldn’t say it’s inherently flawed. The obvious alternative is to get rid of the salary cap and we have an English Premier League-type scenario where the richest clubs pillage the rest and dominate the comp with no mechanism to even it out. Is that what you want? Even if you are a Broncos supporter is that what you want??? I would rather an even comp than one where you know which teams will finish where each year. You can’t say that Brisbane have a divine right to finish in the top four each year and win a premiership every five years. That’s just stupid and takes away the whole point of competition.
Also it’s hardly like Manly weren’t “raped and pillaged” or as I prefer to put it, forced to let some players go. Players like Mark Bryant, Adam Cuthbertson, Josh Perry, Matt Orford and Michael Robertson all won premierships and moved on partly because Manly couldn’t afford to keep them. Is it worth whingeing about? No, because that’s just how the game operates. And do you honestly think the Broncos have never bought players from other clubs and areas? Sims, Te’o, Clinton, Wallace, Mundine, Tallis, Prince et al ring a bell?
“Manly…can pick and choose the best juniors and just let the expensive ones go…” Same as every other club mate. Same as your beloved Broncos even. If we weren’t missing a beat we would have won every premiership since 2008 instead of finishing 1, 5, 8 and then 1 again. Hardly “not missing a beat” mate.
I would say that all NRL clubs would have a similar proportion of their players who are actually from their catchment area and are local juniors. I think it would be very similar across the board.
And if you think nobody gives a bollocks about Manly or other Sydney clubs, think again mate. From what I’ve seen the only clubs in southeast Qld who have more fans than Manly are the Broncos, Cowboys and Titans…i.e. all three Queensland clubs.
You may not be big on technology but you’re also not big on spelling, grammar and logic either, it seems.
August 16th 2012 @ 4:23pm
NF said | August 16th 2012 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
Culina you must be new here but I agree with what your saying logic and sense is hard to get through oikee it’s like talking to a brick wall at times. Who do you support btw I’m a Cowboys supporter.
August 16th 2012 @ 5:11pm
Michael Culina said | August 16th 2012 @ 5:11pm | Report comment
NF I support Manly mate, have done since I was a little kid. Of course I have an interest in Oikee’s delirious rants against my club but my comments are more broadly focused on his reasoning generally…I just can’t fathom how it could possibly be successful.
August 16th 2012 @ 5:47pm
oikee said | August 16th 2012 @ 5:47pm | Report comment
Michael, your spelling makes me wonder if you are a Lawyer,
no lawyer i know spells as good as you, and no doctor i know would question anyone’s spelling.
Anyhow, read all the posts on this blog,
I have never said anywhere to get rid of the cap. All i have said is Manly reaps and pillages juniors without having to pay a cent to the powerhouse clubs.
Is this really that hard to understand, your a lawyer.
Mate taking the gloves off will only get me moderated and banned.
I am a blogger living on the edge, death row to you.
August 16th 2012 @ 1:11pm
planko said | August 16th 2012 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
Oikee I live NEAR canberra and work in canberra. So let me get this straight. Manly is surpose feel sorry for Canberra because of their climate ? Maybe you could come to Sydney Oikee and blow some of your hot wind down towards Canberra ? This will help the climate in canberra so they can attract some of your juniors that you dont want as well ?Juniors before they play U20 are not in the salary cap so any excuse for you loosing Juniors at the age you are talking about is nul and void.
August 16th 2012 @ 6:42pm
Andy said | August 16th 2012 @ 6:42pm | Report comment
Do you think if lockyer got paid more money to go anywhere else he would??? its all about business and players have good managers. like you wrote locky was on 700 thousand then a good manager got him all the sponcers he needed….. its just business… and if you can see that then maybe you should just stick with the Queensland cup
August 16th 2012 @ 10:27am
The Northern Beaches Bulldog said | August 16th 2012 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Sure the stewart brothers were out of the game, but they had suitable replacements named in the side. Kasiano and Keating were injured early in that game, some would suggest that they are also key players. The thing is the bulldogs played on and won 2 men short. Its the Dogs Of War mentality…….which is exactly the tonic thats needed at the business end of the year. Des after a tour that started in the mountains and went via the beaches has finally found his home. Dont cash your ticket yet “Brownie”. You may need another face slapping session when another of your ill guided projections falls on the cutting room floor.
August 16th 2012 @ 1:10pm
Mals said | August 16th 2012 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
Throw the cash at Hasler & he will go coach anywhere. He is now a career coach. Don’t expect him to stay at Belmore for the rest of his coaching career.
August 16th 2012 @ 1:17pm
planko said | August 16th 2012 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
Mals you are right he is a box ticker, a goal setter and an over achiever once he has a premiereship or 2 or the goal he has set himself I am sure he will move on to a new challenge. But I am not sure if his kids are still in school or that has moved from fairlight ? I don’t know…. But he will move again I reckon
August 16th 2012 @ 10:41am
eagleJack said | August 16th 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
“In my world i have never seen……”
Would love a day in oikees world!