The Wallabies are playing the champs of world rugby. Bring on Quade!
By Spiro Zavos, 20 Aug 2012 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- All Blacks, Bledisloe Cup, David Pocock, Kurtley Beale, Rugby Union, The Rugby Championship, wallabies
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The New Zealand All Black's Cory Jane (l) competes for the ball with Will Genia of Australian Wallabies during the Bledisloe Cup rugby union test match (AAP Image/Paul Miller)
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Right on time the All Blacks won a scrum penalty about 20m in from the touchline and well inside the Wallaby 22. Time was up.
The All Blacks were 5 points up and had only to kick the ball into touch to clinch a hard-won victory.
Instead, Richie McCaw told Dan Carter to kick for goal, added the instruction: ‘Make sure it goes over.’
By opting to take the kick at goal, McCaw also opted to give the Wallabies their only possible chance of winning the game.
If the ball hit the posts or fell short of the dead ball area and the Wallabies re-gathered and went all the way down the field to score a try and convert it, they would have pulled off the greatest heist in rugby history.
It’s history now that Carter kicked the penalty and the All Blacks opened their aggressive attack on The Rugby Championship with a victory away from home, also denying the Wallabies a bonus point.
It’s worth deconstructing the last few minutes of an enthralling Test match to make the point that the All Blacks, for the last couple of years, and this year, too, going on the evidence of this season so far, are one of the great Test teams in the history.
I could not help thinking as I watched the 2012 All Blacks go about the difficult task of defeating the Wallabies at home at ANZ Stadium that they have become the rugby equivalent of the Queensland State of Origin side. And the other top tier rugby nations, including the Wallabies (who have inflicted the last two losses on the All Blacks), are the equivalent of New South Wales.
Queensland have won the State of Origin for the last 8 years. The All Blacks have held the Bledisloe Cup for the past decade. Judging by the way the two teams played on Saturday night, the All Blacks will defeat the Wallabies at Auckland next weekend at Eden Park, a ground where Australia last defeated New Zealand in 1984!
Now those last few minutes of play deconstructed.
The crucial fact for Wallaby supporters, and something coach Robbie Deans ruefully acknowledged, is that despite a terrible first half, the Wallabies were only five points behind with the same number of minutes left to play.
Berrick Barnes had kicked a massive penalty punt to take play into the New Zealand half. The Wallabies mounted a series of attacks. They were too static, as they had been throughout the Test. And somehow Digby Ioane couldn’t be released the way he was when he set up the Wallabies first and only try near half-time to take the score, after the conversion, to 18 New Zealand – 10 Australia.
The All Blacks defended as they did against France in those last 20 minutes of the 2011 Rugby World Cup. They stayed behind the offside line. They didn’t try to win the ball on the ground with their hands and give away a penalty.
They had terrific line speed in coming up to attack the ball runner. And finally after a series of Wallaby hit-ups, the hooker Andrew Hore wrenched a ball clear from a maul. Israel Dagg booted the ball down field. Chased his own kick and tackled Adam Ashley-Cooper in the Wallaby in-goal area.
From the scrum and put-in, the All Black pack, as it had done several times in the Test, crushed the Wallaby pack and forced the penalty that Carter kicked.
Notice it was Hore not McCaw who got the turnover. And Dagg chased his own kick hard. And throughout the Wallaby attack, the All Blacks kept their discipline. Finally, Carter did kick the goal.
As Greg Clarke pointed out in his commentary, Carter has an 88 per cent winning record as an All Black. McCaw has captained the All Blacks 71 times for 63 wins. And in the last 106 Tests when they were leading at half-time, the All Blacks have won 102 of those matches.
The Wallabies have been more successful (in relative terms) against the All Blacks than any other team.
The Bledisloe Cup, though, just accentuates just how difficult it is for teams to win successive Tests against the All Blacks.
Deans’ problem, rather like Ricky Stuart for NSW in recent years, is that the Australian franchises are just not providing him with talent that is honed to an international level.
I would argue that the only Wallaby who has improved his game so that he is the best in the world in his position is Will Genia. But even Genia this season, for the Reds and on Saturday night for the Wallabies, has adopted the emperor penguin position over the ball at ruck time.
I can’t believe he is being coached to stand so long over the ball, sometimes up to 10 seconds (honestly, I counted).
As Rod Kafer pointed out, the longer the halfback stands over the ball waiting for it to hatch an idea, the longer the defenders have to set their defence. And once the All Blacks set their defence, it is extremely difficult to find a way through it or even to make a dent in it, as the last series of defensive plays proved.
Now I want to talk about two other players who have been hyped extravagantly but rarely deliver up to the superlatives lavished on them. And I would make the point, this should not read as a sort of personal, accusatory criticism.
It is, though, the sort of criticism they would evoke if they played in New Zealand.
Before every Bledisloe Cup Test, the pundits start promoting David Pocock as a better number 7 than McCaw. To me this is rubbish. Pocock is a very good player.
I would not rate him as a great player in the same class as McCaw who might be the finest loose forward in the history of rugby.
The thing about Pocock is that he is a two trick pony. He tackles strongly in the line but rarely after a break-out has been made against his team: and he wins a lot of ball on the ground, although he was totally nullified on Saturday night when he conceded several penalties rather than making turnovers.
What is lacking in Pocock’s game is the sort of hard, tough bursts that McCaw has brought into his game. And the reason for this, in my opinion, is that he (Pocock) has muscled up so much he is resembles Wayne Pearce, the rugby league great, in that he has lost too much flexibility and speed.
I don’t believe a New Zealand coach – or put it this way because John Mitchell was his first Super Rugby coach – a coach in New Zealand would have allowed to lose his speed by over-building himself up.
He is like a top-heavy building with weak foundations. This is why I have argued that he should now be played at number 6 which is a position that calls for defence and guarding the narrow blindside rather than roaming all over the field as a number 7.
One final point, McCaw was used as a main lineout jumper early in the Test rather than Kieran Read. Pocock, to my knowledge, rarely jumps in the lineout.
Now Kurtley Beale. In The Australian on Saturday, on the front page, Mark Ella wrote a terrific tribute to Beale arguing that he was the three Ellas wrapped up in one player.
Mark is one of my favourite players (along with Tim Horan, David Campese and Jonah Lomu). He is extremely modest about his achievements and generous with his appraisals of the modern day player.
But Mark, I saw you play (and your brilliant brothers too) and Kurtley is no Mark Ella, and it is incomparable for any one privileged to watch him play whether club rugby for Randwick or in Tests for the Wallabies.
Beale is tremendously talented. He left Joeys a better player, though, than he was after the Waratahs had had him for so many years before he went to the Melbourne Rebels this season.
It is true to say that when he came into the Wallabies that Deans saw his potential as a fullback and he grew under the coaching of Deans into a good player.
Occasionally, Beale has been brilliant and a match-winner. But he has not done this consistently which is the mark of a great player.
And the reason for this is that the Super Rugby coaches he’s had haven’t been able to do to him what, say, Deans did with Dan Carter and Dave Rennie has done with Aaron Cruden.
Deans used to spend hours when the official training of the Crusaders was over rehearsing and practising all types of kicks with Carter. Did Ewen McKenzie and Chris Hickey do this with Beale?
Beale’s first 30 minutes or so of the Test were among the worst he’s ever played in his life. Two of his mistakes were followed immediately by the two All Blacks tries. I thought he was trying to over play his hand.
One of the principles of New Zealand rugby is that backs should under play their game and strike when least expected. The play of Israel Dagg is built around this principle.
Beale is a more talented player than Dagg. But Dagg is a better Test player, right now.
I watched the Test with the publisher of The Roar, Zac Zavos. Not long into the match, when the All Blacks looked like piling on the points, he remarked to me: ‘The poor Super Rugby seasons of the Australian franchises are coming home to roost.’
And this is right. The Wallaby coaching staff had to spend a great part of the three weeks in camp getting the players fit. And the work paid off to the extent that the Wallabies lost the first half 18 – 10 but drew the second half, when everyone expected blast off from the All Blacks, 9 – 9, with the All Blacks final points coming right on time.
And there was a lot to admire about the play of the Wallabies. They did take the All Blacks on. There wasn’t nearly as much kicking from the Wallabies as we expected. The scrum won some penalties and was only crushed once, although this was an important loss when the Wallabies were on attack and needing a converted try to take the lead.
The glaring failure of the team, though, is its inability to score tries. This Test season the Wallabies have scored six tries in five Tests. Not good enough.
It’s time for Quade Cooper at five-eighths and Berrick Barnes at inside centre.
The argument that Cooper hasn’t had enough rugby doesn’t make sense. He’s had more rugby than Beale and Drew Mitchell and James O’Connor when he comes back into the side.
If there is an issue about something or rather to do with Cooper (he hasn’t signed up with the ARU although he has with the Queensland Rugby Union) then let’s hear what it is about.
The fact of the matter is that the Wallabies are not going to win back the Bledisloe Cup, any more than NSW are going to win the next State of Origin, without some X-factor player to match the numerous X-factor players the All Blacks have.
Cooper can win Tests when things go his way. He can lose them, too, as he showed in the 2011 Rugby World Cup semi-final.
But for a side that is out-classed all around the field, as the Wallabies were on Saturday night, someone with the touch of genius is needed to make the plays that like alchemy turn dross into gold.
Spiro Zavos, a founding writer on The Roar, was long time editorial writer on the Sydney Morning Herald, where he started a rugby column that has run for nearly 30 years. Spiro has written 12 books: fiction, biography, politics and histories of Australian, New Zealand, British and South African rugby. He is regarded as one of the foremost writers on rugby throughout the world.
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August 20th 2012 @ 7:40am
kingplaymaker said | August 20th 2012 @ 7:40am | Report comment
The team for the next match will be revealing.
I thought before the match that Dennis was no replacement for Palu’s power, that this was a reward for effort rather than a logical selection, and that someone like Samo would have been a better shot. Of course Samo might well not have turned up on the day, but he might have and he might have brought some of the missing power. I would lose Dennis or even Higginbotham and put in Samo at least for the first 50 minutes.
Beale’s sudden form loss is mysterious. The effect of the assault charge hanging over him maybe? Or something unknown? Or maybe just one of those things that have no real cause. To drop him however would be like not selecting Cooper: it might prevent a loss but it wouldn’t gain a victory.
AAC produced nothing in attack as usual but then was good in defence. With Mitchell, you might get better attack but it would be very risky in defence after all this time out.
If Pocock is injured, the dynamism of Hooper could actually be an improvement.
In the centres, if Deans wants to keep the safe kicking of Barnes he could lose Horne. Horne was essentially there to stop Nonu. Could Barnes do the same? It would be a risk.
I’m a big Deans supporter but not choosing Cooper for this match was his first major mistake in memory. It should be immediately rectified: with Cooper the Wallabies would have had a far better chance of winning.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:26am
Red Kev said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:26am | Report comment
Quote: “…his first major mistake in memory…”
Is that meant to be a joke or do you genuinely believe that?
If it’s the latter allow me to refresh your memory:
- axing George Smith far too soon
- losing to Scotland, twice
- losing to Samoa
- failing to keep selecting the only Wallaby backline that has played well (the Cooper-Barnes-AAC midfield that demolished France in Paris in 2010)
- failing to bring any sort of ‘shape’ or discernable attack pattern to the Wallabies in 5 years
- continuing to select Rocky Elsom (who has just lost his Japan deal because he can’t pass a medical because he’s been injured for the last three years, not that it stops Deans making him captain and blindside flanker as often as possible)
- not taking any openside flanker cover to the RWC
- not listening to 95% of rugby writers (and fans) around the world who point out how much better the Wallabies and Quade Cooper play with a second playmaker at inside centre
- failing to pick on form
- Cooper Vuna
- and let’s not forget the old chestnut, using the bench, you can’t look at Deans as a coach without addressing this, and it has been his second worst failing for the entirety of his tenure (his worst failing being his inept selections)
August 20th 2012 @ 8:33am
kingplaymaker said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:33am | Report comment
I won’t respond to all those as they have all been through before.
I agree with most of what he’s done and I reject your criticisms. I would say that not persisting with Timani last year to bulk up the RWC pack was a mistake, but then you wouldn’t agree with that.
But I don’t agree at all with leaving out Cooper.
I am objective and so despite supporting Deans am able to say it’s a major mistake to leave out Cooper. You on the other hand are completely unobjective, incapable of doing more than find an argument to attack Deans and would never in a million years give him credit for anything even if you thought he had done something well.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:38am
Red Kev said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
If he does something, I’ll give him credit.
Deans is personally in charge of the Wallaby attack – how’s that going?
August 20th 2012 @ 9:05am
kingplaymaker said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:05am | Report comment
RK to say that you he hasn’t done a single good thing is simply disingenous.
August 20th 2012 @ 9:13am
Red Kev said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:13am | Report comment
I don’t say that. In fact if you read my comments and submitted articles you will see credit given where it is due. In fact even in the first article I submitted calling for him to be fired you will see a section called “what has Robbie Deans done well”.
The problem is that what he does well is a short list, what he does poorly is a long one.
But don’t let the facts get in the way of your prejudices and opinions (I shouldn’t be worried, you never do).
August 20th 2012 @ 9:50am
Harry said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:50am | Report comment
No but as Red Kev lists, the negatives are way ahead of the positives.
August 20th 2012 @ 10:47am
kingplaymaker said | August 20th 2012 @ 10:47am | Report comment
I can’t remember a single thing RK: if there were any they were a long time ago. On the other hand there are millions on the negative side of the ledger.
Harry that’s where RK and my positions differ: I don’t object to his position, but to the lack of objectivity.
August 20th 2012 @ 12:25pm
Bob said | August 20th 2012 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
KPM – normally you are full of good comments. In this instance you are WRONG not objective. Deal with it. We all have to. Deans has to go.
August 21st 2012 @ 3:40am
Shop said | August 21st 2012 @ 3:40am | Report comment
Relatively new to the forum, but KPM, Deans has made a very long list of errors as Kev mentions. Since his reign – and I was initially a fan – there has been very little to cheer about. It isn’t just his record that is questionable but the lack of any consistancy or direction.
Ironically, I think last weekend was the first time when the players, not the coach, was at fault.
August 21st 2012 @ 3:53am
kingplaymaker said | August 21st 2012 @ 3:53am | Report comment
Shop if you’re new to the forum I’ve gone over this so many millions of times as to not want to repeat it. But you can listen to RK going on as he is not tired of the issue.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:38am
moaman said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
Red Kev–You can hardly blame a coach for losing the latest match v Scotland,surely? So many factors involved..not the least was the poor captaincy on the day where points were spurned as penalties were kicked to the corners.
” failing to keep selecting the only Wallaby backline that has played well …” Most modern coaches/fans would grudgingly acknowledge that against different opposition,sometimes a “horses for courses” poilcy may be adopted.The ABs eg have done it for years.An example would be the switching of hookers Mealamu and Hore when playing tri-nations games.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:40am
Red Kev said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
And yet the All Blacks never change their midfield of Carter-Nonu-Smith except when forced to by injury.
August 20th 2012 @ 9:53am
Dasher said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:53am | Report comment
My criticism is he fluctuates between persisting with an under-performing team for too long and suddenly blooding what seems like 6 players in one go. The All Blacks never do that – they never blood more than 1 or 2 new faces.
August 20th 2012 @ 6:35pm
sheek said | August 20th 2012 @ 6:35pm | Report comment
And with a midfield of Carter-Nonu-Smith, why would the ABs need to change apart from injury?
Although Nonu can blow incredibly hot or cold.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:42pm
Red Kev said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:42pm | Report comment
They wouldn’t. But neither would the Wallabies with a midfield of Cooper-Barnes-AAC as there isn’t a better (proven) midfield in the country yet Deans hasn’t played that combination since Paris in 2010 when they put 50 points on the French.
Harris might offer more than Barnes in certain situations being a more physical player. And long term Tapuai-F’Sautia and Tomane are likely to be better centres. But right now Cooper-Barnes-AAC are the best there is yet Deans ignores it.
August 20th 2012 @ 9:39am
kos1nsk1 said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:39am | Report comment
Thanks Kev for that summation – It’s like “Baldrick” Deans has become the elephant in the ARU room.
He is not up to international coaching standards – he should have realised this himself and resigned 2 years ago.
August 20th 2012 @ 10:53am
WoobliesFan said | August 20th 2012 @ 10:53am | Report comment
AMEN to that Red Kev.
As far as I’m concerned, what I saw on Saturday was the final straw….this was DEANS’ team….he GOT the players HE wanted and HE FAILED. This is not our beloved Wallabies anymore. It’s some wretched, mutant and distorted view of how Deans thinks Rugby should be played and it just doesn’t suit us. Deans now has no choice but to bring QC back and the timing couldn’t be more obscene.
Barring a change of coach, here’s how I’d fix the team for Eden Park:
1) Bring back QC. HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2) Move BB to IC. It’s a beautiful combo.
3) Ditch all the putrid Waratah forwards except KEPU…USELESSSSSSSS! Absolutely and utterly useless.
4) Moore to start.
5) Shipperly for Drew Mitchell.
6) Samo for Higgers (that dude is so friggin frustrating to watch). Higgers off the bench until he develops fully.
7) Genia to be told to get his sh*t together and pick up the pace. It’s a major flaw in his game.
and last but not least (and this was a hard one to make)
8) Drop Beale. I saw a confused, cloudy and troubled individual on Sat. night. He looked unhappy and fragile in mind. What, his inner circle and wallabies management couldn’t see this?
I’ll do a quick hypothetical —> what if McKenzie was given the job tomorrow? Well, I guarantee you that 50% of the team from Saturday night would be gone and more capable players and combinations put in their place.
August 20th 2012 @ 12:00pm
Red Kev said | August 20th 2012 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
Just on your last point – I am not sure it can be done.
If you install a new coach in the middle of this years’ Rugby Championship you are begging him to rely on the structures and players he knows, which means essentially McKenzie would have to select the Reds plus 6-10 players from other teams in his 22.
To be honest I can’t see Deans being sacked before his contract is up unless the ARU gifts the job to McKenzie (instead of doing a proper interview process which is preferable). The inaugural Rugby Championship ends, then there is the third Bledisloe on October 20, then the Spring tour (3-4 tests?), then the Lions arrive in June 2013, and the new RC starts in August.
August 20th 2012 @ 4:57pm
WoobliesFan said | August 20th 2012 @ 4:57pm | Report comment
This is what’s in front of us :
25 Aug All Blacks vs. Wallabies Eden Park, Auckland
08 Sep Wallabies vs. Springboks Patersons Stadium, Perth
15 Sep Wallabies vs. Argentina Skilled Park, Gold Coast
30 Sep Springboks vs. Wallabies Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria
07 Oct Argentina vs. Wallabies Rosario Central Stadium, Rosario
We lost in Sydney….we’ll surely lose on foreign soil. Perth and Gold Coast are our only chances. That’s possibly 2 wins for the entire Championship.
August 21st 2012 @ 7:10am
Kevy said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:10am | Report comment
predictions…
25 Aug All Blacks vs. Wallabies Eden Park, Auckland – All Blacks by 20+
08 Sep Wallabies vs. Springboks Patersons Stadium, Perth – Boks by 10+
15 Sep Wallabies vs. Argentina Skilled Park, Gold Coast – Wallabies by 5
30 Sep Springboks vs. Wallabies Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria – Boks by 10+
07 Oct Argentina vs. Wallabies Rosario Central Stadium, Rosario – Arg by 1
I recall earlier comments by ex All Black Richard Loe, his prediction was that the Wallabies would win only one game at these championships, I tend agree given the way we played last Saturday.
Bring back Q Cooper? playing into the hands of the kiwis, does Public enemy #1 ring the bell?
August 20th 2012 @ 10:30pm
SandBox said | August 20th 2012 @ 10:30pm | Report comment
On point 8. Sure Beale had a shocker, but surely he deserves a chance to make it up. Unless there is something deep seeded with his mental state. Agree with everything else
August 21st 2012 @ 3:43am
Shop said | August 21st 2012 @ 3:43am | Report comment
“if McKenzie was given the job tomorrow” you have me excited already!
August 20th 2012 @ 5:25pm
Cattledog said | August 20th 2012 @ 5:25pm | Report comment
All correct points, RK. If Deans now selects Cooper, how does he justify it? What extra game time has he had? Fact is, he’s shown he’s more than ready and perhaps even better than before. As for his non selection of Shipperley for Mitchell, just proves Deans has no concept of form and selection.
Dean’s is the weak link in the Wallaby set up and must go. Not much chance of that happening, however.
August 20th 2012 @ 2:29pm
Sam Taulelei said | August 20th 2012 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
KPM
“Im a big Deans supporter but not choosing Cooper for this match was his first major mistake in memory. It should be immediately rectified”
If he does select Cooper, not only will it be an admission of a mistake on his part but it would give further weight to rumours around Cooper’s non selection. The reason Deans gave last week was that Cooper still wasn’t match fit, yet one week later and playing no rugby in between tests, Cooper is cleared to play?
Something doesn’t add up here.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:13pm
WoobliesFan said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:13pm | Report comment
Its suss….. Very suss. Spiro mentioned something about QC not signing with the ARU. Can someone enlightenme plz – what does that actually mean? What is Spiro on about?
August 20th 2012 @ 8:47pm
WoobliesFan said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
I just worked IT out – its a decoy statement. QC was not picked because of a personal issue with Deans. Spiro will never admit this because he’ s Deans fanboy, so he tries to throw us off the scent.
Very smooth Spiro.
The whole situation stinks. Wallabies in total disarray.
Deans to be sacked by end of the RC. You heard IT hear first.
August 20th 2012 @ 2:38pm
Jokerman said | August 20th 2012 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
What happened to the “one- two knock out?” You know, get the bledisloe in a quick 2 game session, as Barnes had said. More like jab- miss jab -miss …oops I’m on the canvas and I’m unconscious.
Oh well, next year perhaps. I look forward to seeing Barns wheeled out as usual, after reading the tea leaves….” I feel this, I see this…..his predictions suck!!!!
August 20th 2012 @ 7:40am
Darwin Stubbie said | August 20th 2012 @ 7:40am | Report comment
Surely if they were going to bring Cooper back into test rugby it should have been last Sat …. I can’t believe even Deans has painted himself into such a corner – bringing an undercooked player back into a deciding test at a venue where he was exposed under pressure and the crowd was relentless …. Cooper hasn’t set foot back in NZ since the W-cup and you can guarantee that if he plays this Sat the crowd will be hounding him … Massive mismanagement
August 20th 2012 @ 8:33am
Justin2 said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Hard to disagree with that DS
August 20th 2012 @ 8:49am
rabbitfan said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:49am | Report comment
Agree DS, This backline selected by Deans and Co gave you the immediate gut feeling that this was going to be another defeat for the WBs, this was confirmed on one of the first plays when the ball through the whole back line to Ashley Cooper who was then pushed into touch, no spark in attack and never looked like it. Cooper, Barnes, Ashley Cooper, Mitchel, Digby and retain Kurtley at FB.
August 20th 2012 @ 9:08am
Justin2 said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Geez, that was aweful! Barnes, standing so deep, then did the big right foot plant and threw a horrendous pass behind everyone. Beale cleaned it up nicely and Horne made his one pass for the game to AAC. AAC from his own in-goal, instead of clearing it, decided to run it with numerous defenders bearing down on him and was forced into touch 5m out. You couldnt make it up!
August 20th 2012 @ 10:57am
Go_the_Wannabe's said | August 20th 2012 @ 10:57am | Report comment
See, Horne can pass the ball.
August 20th 2012 @ 11:49am
Justin2 said | August 20th 2012 @ 11:49am | Report comment
August 20th 2012 @ 8:58am
Who Needs Melon said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Or, if they’d had him on the bench, yanked Kurtley for QC late in the match.
Come to think of it, why didn’t they yank Kurtley for Drew Mitchell? Oh yeah – that’s right – because Drew is less fit to play that Quade is!
August 20th 2012 @ 11:16am
WoobliesFan said | August 20th 2012 @ 11:16am | Report comment
x2
Deans busted big time.
Zero knowledge of when to sub and can’t pick a fit bench player to sub.
Will go down as worst coach of our modern era.
August 20th 2012 @ 9:08am
roarr said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Agreed. It’s terrible player management. Hopefully it only shatters his confidence a little bit…not alot.
August 20th 2012 @ 10:05am
soapit said | August 20th 2012 @ 10:05am | Report comment
my thoughts exactly. if deans brings cooper back for this match i’ll know he’s lost it. cooper is much better than barnes but barnes now has 4 games with this group under his belt and cooper will be booed for 80 minutes and could feasibly struggle under those circumstances..
August 20th 2012 @ 12:54pm
WQ said | August 20th 2012 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
You are 100% correct Darwin Stubbie.
I hope for Quade Coopers sake that he has another few weeks break and bring him back against South Africa at home and then Argentina at home.
Cooper does not have the mental strength to cope with a pressured All Blacks game at Eden Park with the entire crowd all over him for every little mistake. If he had another game like the World Cup semi final he will be finished against the All Blacks forever!
August 20th 2012 @ 12:56pm
mania said | August 20th 2012 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
WQ – i dont think the NZ crowds will boo quade again. it would be fun too but i’m pretty sure everyones over him kneeing ccaw in the head
August 20th 2012 @ 1:26pm
WQ said | August 20th 2012 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
Your probably right mania, by in large I don’t think he will get as much attention as the RWC2011 tournament.
That is of course as long as he handles himself correctly when actually asked the question by the media?????
August 21st 2012 @ 9:22am
kiwi said | August 21st 2012 @ 9:22am | Report comment
I don’t agree mania.
Rightly or wrongly (and I really believe he’s mainly brought this upon himself) if he comes back to New Zealand – and especially Auckland – he can expect more of the same.
August 21st 2012 @ 9:42am
mania said | August 21st 2012 @ 9:42am | Report comment
kiwi – i dont disagree that he brought this on himself but do we really care that much to continue it? i dont and i really dont think he’s a good enough player to warrant all this attention. if anything AB’s fans should be welcoming him back.
August 20th 2012 @ 1:40pm
soapit said | August 20th 2012 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
or at least give him a few games with the team before throwing him into that situation.
not so sure they wont boo him. we’re not talking about a reasonable individual, its a crowd mentality.
August 20th 2012 @ 3:53pm
WQ said | August 20th 2012 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
Very hard to say how they would treat him soapit, I would like to think that they would have moved on however you are quite right it is very hard to pick how a crowd may react?
Hopefully Quade has decided that he will not be making any further comments about enjoying being public enemy number 1!
August 20th 2012 @ 7:41am
DannyM said | August 20th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Nice read indeed, but to say Beale is more talented than Dagg is bollocks. I watch the Wallabies and the AB’s often from up here (I, unlike some, actually enjoy running rugby), and have no doubt that I’d much rather have Dagg in my team.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:19am
M.O.C. said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Absolutely agree with this – Dagg is a natural and just seems to effortlessly carve through defenses almost like Christian Cullen used to. Beale always looks a step or two too slow, aims at the sideline and is frequently swept into touch by defenders – this is when he is not giving possession back to the opposition with aimless chip-kicks.
August 20th 2012 @ 9:23am
winston said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Agreed, Dagg is looking like the best back, if not best player, in the world at the moment. Its been a good two years since Beal has shone
August 20th 2012 @ 9:24am
Justin2 said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:24am | Report comment
It was only a couple of matches ago people were concerned about Daggs S15 form wasnt it?
August 20th 2012 @ 9:46am
Fog said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:46am | Report comment
The form of all players fluctuates. Dagg’s seems to vary from better than most to better than anyone. I was sitting in the stands in Wellington just above where he skinned five top Springbok defenders in an extremely confined space. Even on his best days Beale couldn’t have achieved that. Beale is talented but in the league below Dagg. He looks like he is trying too hard and thinking too much. Is that a legacy of his life at the Horrotahs?
August 20th 2012 @ 9:55am
winston said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:55am | Report comment
Yeah but something happens to him when he puts on the black jumper
August 20th 2012 @ 10:18am
Fog said | August 20th 2012 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Until Dagg and Williams came along the Crusaders had never had super talented NZ eligible players outside first five. They relied instead on solid gap runners like Scott Hamilton, Ralph and now Guilford. In the centres, players like Matson, Mauger and Gibson. Williams at 2nd five allowed players like Dagg and Fruean to flourish. With a more tradiitonal stolid second five this season they don’t get the opportunities anymore because defenders just drift or leave one on one. Like Nonu, Williams creates many opportunities for his outsides simply because defenders know they can’t drift. The Crusaders outside game has never been built around flare and unpredictability. Hence Dagg’s form problem.
August 20th 2012 @ 2:16pm
Rebel Yells said | August 20th 2012 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
I totally agree FOG……….. if Beale had the setpiece creative flare of Stephen Larkham at 5/8 and an Anthony Herbert, a Tim Horan or a fit Stirling Mortlock at centre OR of course Nonu, Umunga, Conrad Smith, Fruen, Rene Ranger or Sonny Bill then Kurtley wouldn’t draw the attention he currently draws and would be much more free. Christian Cullen was outstanding and one of the best Fullbacks of all time but how about the long line of large gifted and hardnosed Wellington centres he’s played with.
Kurtley had a poor weekend but he’ll bounce back. Although Sharpie had a good game, I would have TImani and Simmons…. Ita Vea from the Brumbies and Higgenbotham and Pocock…… The wallabies need a hard running forward to make the advantage line…….. and Palu seems done with.
Genia’s delivery was Gregan in the bad old days. A fit and willing bench MUST be used and across the field.>>> that even includes Phipps. I do think Anthony Fainga has copped unnecessary critsm and personally would prefer Fainga attacking and defending SB Williams ahead of BB.
But chop and changing the side every week is certainly not what the Wallabies need and the swop of just BB for Quade and perhaps Polatu Nau for Moore might be a smarter move.
That said…….. come Argentina……. lets see the likes of Mike Harris, Jake Shatz, Hugh Pyle……..
AND to join everyone else on commenting on Robbie Deans……I would say to every player who wants to play for the Wallabies….. players will only be chosen in positions they play at Super15 level……… particularly Tighthead and loosehead prop, LEFT and RIGHT locks and in the centres.
AAC has been a terrifc player over the years but the team could do with an extra yard of pace from a QLD winger……
August 20th 2012 @ 10:46am
Justin2 said | August 20th 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Dont get me wrong, I think Dagg is sensational, love watching him play. I think worlds best was a little off thats all after one match.
August 20th 2012 @ 12:01pm
stillmatic1 said | August 20th 2012 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
agree justin2. i love dagg as a player and is better IMO than beale, but hardly the worlds best at anything yet.
August 20th 2012 @ 4:45pm
Fog said | August 20th 2012 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
For sure, world’s best is easily the most overused description in rugby.
August 25th 2012 @ 1:58pm
Saker said | August 25th 2012 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
now After one match like hell? His form at international level has been sensational. In the WC he was easily the best fullback and against Ireland in the test series simply outstanding carving them to shreds. He is quicker then Beale and better defensively and the one weapon he has is that insane 8o metre punt that he sometimes unleashes and with great accuracy and I don’t if you have noticed, but when he punts the ball up in the air it goes up for miles – and seems to take forever to come down allowing him and other All Blacks to arrive when it comes down. In the last 12 months Dagg has been the most consistent and most dangerous Fullback at test level in the world regardless of his Super 15 form and he still played well just not his usual blinding self. Dagg for many reasons has weapons – like his punt and positional strength that are second to no one in world rugby at fullback.
August 20th 2012 @ 7:51am
moaman said | August 20th 2012 @ 7:51am | Report comment
For the record….Australia has won four times at Eden Park going back to 1925.
The last occasion was September 6,1986.
August 20th 2012 @ 7:53am
biltongbek said | August 20th 2012 @ 7:53am | Report comment
The Wallabies have been more succesful (in relative terms) against the All Blacks than any other teams.
Huh?
August 20th 2012 @ 8:07am
moaman said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:07am | Report comment
Australia v NZ ; played 168* won 47 lost 116 for a 29.46% success rate.
RSA v NZ ;Played 83 Won 34 Lost 46 @42.77%
* Some early games between Australia and NZ were designated “New Zealnd xv”..perhaps Spiro can tel us why?
August 20th 2012 @ 9:26am
Spiro Zavos said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Moaman
I think the NZ records do not include the Tests between New Zealand and the NSW Waratahs (playing as Australia) when the Queensland Rugby Union went out of existence during the First World War.
The QRU was re-established in 1929 and the Wallabies then won a three-match series against the All Blacks, the first team in history to do this.
The ARU put these Waratahs/Wallabies Tests in their records as Australia-NZ Tests and have awarded caps to the players in those series.
The NZRU have not done this. And in Men in Black by R.H.Chester and N.A.C.McMillan (Moa Books), a definitive account of all the rugby Tests played by the All Blacks, the Waratahs/Wallabies of the 1920s are not mentioned until the 1929 series with the QRU back in action, officially.
When I made the point that the Wallabies have been the most successful team against the All Blacks it was in the context of recent years with the last two times the All Blacks have lost being defeats inflicted on them by the Wallabies, at Hong Kong and Brisbane.
August 20th 2012 @ 9:37am
moaman said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Thanks Spiro; I read recently that NZ had (now ) 98 wins over Australia. The figures I supplied above come from the ESPN site….it would be good if the IRB or at least ARU & NZRFU could ratify/clarify which of those games can be termed as ‘full internationals’.
Cetainly it’s unsatisfactory to have disputed acknowledgement about the status of those earlier clashes.
August 20th 2012 @ 1:11pm
WQ said | August 20th 2012 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
Moaman the New Zealand Rugby Union does not regard these matches as Test Matches, however the Australian Rugby Union does. This period stretched from 1920 to 1928 and there were 24 matches played during this period for 18 wins by the All Blacks. Those wins are not part of the 98 Test wins they have now had against Australia.
August 20th 2012 @ 12:25pm
ohtani's jacket said | August 20th 2012 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
The All Blacks lost to the Springboks at Port Elizabeth between the HK and Brisbane tests.
August 20th 2012 @ 7:59am
Allanthus said | August 20th 2012 @ 7:59am | Report comment
Spiro, I think you mean Beale went to Melbourne Rebels… he’d have a hard time shifting Billy Slater from Storm fullback on that performance
As bad as Wallabies were at times, the AB’s actually have greater improvement in them. 20 pt + margin brewing in Auckland.
Kudos to Nathan Sharpe for giving it all, but the fact that a retired player was Wallabies best says it all. Pack lacks dynamism and aggression.
Higganbotham did not have “line wide open”, there was defence in front of him. He is a flat track bully, good value in S15 but way off test match pace so far
Referee guessing at scrums, poor feel for the game, blowing penalties when ball already being cleared from the back. Technical penalty against Genia way too pedantic. One penalty against AB’s for going off feet was ridiculous, the pack blew over the ball with no Wallabies there to hold them up. That law is to stop players diving over the ball, not to penalise one pack for being so dominant
Inclined to give credit to Dagg for in and out rather than hang Beale
Smith is a great find for AB’s at halfback. Pleasure to watch the ball being swept wide quickly v Genia standing over ball
Is the Fox panel a parody? Does Kearns honestly believe that 10 years without Bledisloe Cup is solely due to McCaw cheating? If yes, he is a fool, if no then shut the ** up about it
August 20th 2012 @ 9:51am
Harryonthecoast said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Allanthus! well said. agree with all you said…..especially about Kearns’ inane comment about McCaw, a stupid, populous, one-eyed comment because the man is so good. and wasn’t the commentary different (and Better) without Kearns and his side-kick Marto? please tell me Fox have at last woken up!
August 20th 2012 @ 7:08pm
djkrammer said | August 20th 2012 @ 7:08pm | Report comment
I agree. I like the new Fox commentary. I thought Horan & Kafe commentary were fair and balanced compared to the other two dumbos Kearns & Marto. Hope they stick with Horan & Kafe.
August 21st 2012 @ 4:02am
Shop said | August 21st 2012 @ 4:02am | Report comment
I didn’t count, but 8 out of 10 scrums must have ended in penalties with the arm alternating between both sides – ridiculous. I though a couple of penalties for the AB’s going of feet was unfair because there was no opposition, however there were plenty cases of AB bodies lying around the tackle area without a care in the world and never penalised. I think the it all evened out in the end, but it was pedantic and poor reffing. Usually Rolland is better. Steve Walsh was much better in the ARG v SA game.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:09am
sph45 said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:09am | Report comment
What about Diggers at outside centre? He’s always ‘looking for work’ in the centres anyway – just put him there and then he doesn’t have to look for work, he can just do work.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:39am
Sailosi said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:39am | Report comment
I’ve been saying this for ages. Digby has to be at 13. People come up with the excuse that he doesnt pass, well the 12 and 13 at the moment don’t pass anyway and i would be more than confident that if Digby was confonted with a simple 2 on 1 situation he would put his support player away unlike Rob Horne or Fainga’a who i would shudder at the thought of what they would do if confronted with a similar situatuion.
Team for game 2 should be.
1. D. Palmer
2. T. P Nau
3. S. Kepu
4. N. Sharpe
5. H. Pyle
6. J. Schatz
7. M. Hooper
8. S. Higginbotham
9. W. Genia
10. Q. Cooper
11. D. Mitchell
12. B. Tapuai
13. D. Ioane
14. N. Cummins
15. K. Beale
16. S. Moore
17. J. Slipper
18. S. Timani
19. R. Samo
20. R. Kingi
21. B. Barnes
22. A. A Cooper
August 20th 2012 @ 8:41am
Sailosi said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:41am | Report comment
Pocock has been omitted due to form not injury. I’m calling time on his Wallaby career.
August 20th 2012 @ 9:23am
formeropenside said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Palmer is injured. Also, he cant play LHP. He is a specialist THP only.
August 20th 2012 @ 9:20am
Markus said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:20am | Report comment
I always saw the biggest argument being that Ioane has been caught out terribly on defence every time he has played at 13.
That said, there’s only a couple of changes I’d have to that side.
Greg Holmes for Palmer (injured and a specialist TH only), Ashley-Cooper over Beale at FB (does not deserve to see the Wallabies jersey for a while after Saturday’s performance), and swap Ioane and Cummins.
Nic White over Kingi on the bench, and Shipperley over Beale on bench (I’d have Tomane there if not injured).
August 20th 2012 @ 10:08am
soapit said | August 20th 2012 @ 10:08am | Report comment
agree. i have always been against ione at 13 because his passing isnt crash hot but neither does horne and at least he has some redeeming attributes.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:47pm
Lorry said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
I think the backline (with help from Matt!) should be
9 genia
10 cooper
11 oconnor
12 barnes
13 Drew mitchell (as he will be slowing down in pace soon, but he is much bigger than he used to be so is big enough for outside an a far, far better attacker than horne, faiinga or mccabe)
14 digby
15 beale
Bench AAC (for his versatility)
August 20th 2012 @ 8:43am
M.O.C. said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Quite simply, he won’t get the ball at OC, just as he doesn’t now on the wing. And if he was at OC, his winger would never get the ball. What have a fast powerful finisher if his inside men can not pass or are so slow on the pass that the defense is set and has rushed up.
August 20th 2012 @ 9:02am
Sailosi said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:02am | Report comment
Quade Cooper and Ben Tapuai would get Digby Ioane so much ball. They don’t have a problem getting it to him at the reds on the wing.
August 20th 2012 @ 9:25am
winston said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
Cause he’s one of best wingers going round. Why would move him.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:11am
Face the Facts said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:11am | Report comment
“By opting to take the kick at goal, McCaw also opted to give the Waratahs their only possible chance of winning the game”. A Freudian slip there Spiro, but anyone could be forgiven for thinking it was a Waratahs display against the AB’s on Saturday.
“It’s worth deconstructing the last few minutes of an enthralling Test match….” I would think that the majority of people who paid money to watch that game would rightfully feel that they’ve been ripped off.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:15am
moaman said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:15am | Report comment
Spiro-one thing that I found surprising and you have not addressed is; why the Wallabies chose to play so deep? They may have finished the game with more possession and territory but only an optimist would read too much into that. A large percentage of their play was well behind the advantage line.
I believe the Reffing and stop-start nature of the game,coupled with some NZ impatience,was all that kept Australia in touch on the scoreboard.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:19am
sgmc81 said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Spiro has hit the nail on the head. “Deans’ problem is that the Australian franchises are just not providing him with talent that is honed to an international level.” We’ve probably got too many franchises. Our elite players are spread thinly over five different business models, reducing the quality and very much screwing club rugby into the wall. Professional or not, the days of plucking a Phil Kearns out of Randwick 2nd grade evaporated many moons ago. Good luck to the Force next year, sans David Pocock.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:36am
Justin2 said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:36am | Report comment
Rubbish – Spiro somehow has aligned Beale playing at Melbourne with a poor performance. But Beale was Melbournes best back every time he took the field and had been in sensational form.
August 20th 2012 @ 8:40am
sgmc81 said | August 20th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
Our Super rugby sides dominated the bottom half of the competition ladder.
August 20th 2012 @ 9:26am
formeropenside said | August 20th 2012 @ 9:26am | Report comment
The problem is that Deans does not pick on form. I wont argue about spreading talent too thinly though.
August 20th 2012 @ 12:39pm
sheek said | August 20th 2012 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
That’s assuming he has any form to go on………..
August 20th 2012 @ 1:33pm
Justin2 said | August 20th 2012 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
Correct, I cant find one player in AUS in form. I think we should pull out of the RC…