Deans be brutal, Genia be realistic
Columnist By David Lord, 21 Aug 2012 David Lord is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- All Blacks, robbie deans, Rugby Union, wallabies
202 Have your say
Wallabies coach Robbie Deans. AAP Image/Dave Hunt
Related coverage
Wallaby coach Robbie Deans has copped a lot of unfair flack over that pathetic performance last week against the All Blacks at ANZ Stadium.
But Deans didn’t miss tackles, or turn over possession. He didn’t spill regulation passes, or pass the ball behind support players.
Every one of them elementary rugby, basic skills, all gone AWOL.
It was so bad, I was really angry at the final hooter and felt cheated by such an abysmal performance when so much was on offer.
And I don’t feel any better after fill-in skipper Will Genia’s weak comments yesterday.
“We were a little bit passive (last week)”.
“We probably relied a little bit too much on our forwards (last week)”.
“I think we can look to be a little bit more attacking (this week) with the ball in hand as a backline”.
“So if we can get the ball in the backs’ hands a little bit more, and have a little bit more thrust, I think that will stand us in good stead”.
What’s this “little bit” rubbish?
If Genia honestly believes the Wallabies only have to improve “a little bit” this week, he has a major problem with reality that demands a 200% improvement or the Wallabies will be flogged by 30 minimum.
Despite his poor game last week by his high standards, Genia is one of only five Wallabies who can be confident of running onto Eden Park on Saturday night in the starting lineup.
Digby Ioane, Berrick Barnes, Adam Ashley-Cooper, and David Dennis are the other four.
The lack of urgency in the Wallaby ranks is alarming. That’s why the side needs an injection of new blood.
Complacency is rife. You would think pulling on a Wallaby jersey would make every player feel like a giant.
Not any more. Or to be more accurate, not nearly enough of them.
If Deans is to cop any genuine criticism, it will be making minimal changes because he is a loyal selector. While loyalty is commendable, these Wallabies need a major uppercut wake-up call.
Fly-half Quade Cooper, winger Drew Mitchell, and openside flanker Michael Hooper to replace the injured skipper David Pocock are must selections.
No argument whatsoever.
The likes of lock Kane Douglas, flanker Liam Gill, hooker Stephen Moore, backrower Radike Samo, and prop James Slipper, are kicking down the selection door.
The Wallaby pack last week delivered so much slow ball, the backs were stifled. And when the backs did receive decent ball, they invariably stuffed it up.
It was a vicious circle.
You couldn’t call it a comedy of errors because there was nothing funny about the farce at all.
So Robbie Deans, shake the Wallabies up with some positive selection changes.
And Will Genia, increase your “little bit more” theory to a massive improvement to be inspirational.
You will need it. And the fans demand it.
Have you seen the new Wallabies jersey? Want one of your own? We're giving away a brand new 2013 Wallabies jersey to one lucky Roarer, click here to go in the running to win.
- Explore:
- All Blacks, robbie deans, Rugby Union, wallabies
August 21st 2012 @ 5:48am
kingplaymaker said | August 21st 2012 @ 5:48am | Report comment
David sadly most criticism of Deans is based on two factors:
1) Dislike by many (most?) fans and some in the media for having a non-Australian coaching the national team.
2) Refusal to accept the Australian playing pool has been in decline for several years and so while New Zealand can replace Conrad Smith with Sonny Bill Williams, partnering him with Ma’a Nonu, the Wallabies have replace Pat Mccabe with Anthony Faiingaa, pairing him with Rob Horne. Some difference in quality.
So it’s hard to read much fair criticism of Deans unfortunately as you can see by the ludicrous arguments of fans, finding any reason to have a go at a non-Australian and terrified to admit rugby’s playing pool (and the sport in general) is being ruined by the successfully-expanding NRL.
But for those adult enough to see things fairly your articles on the subject are appreciated.
August 21st 2012 @ 5:59am
RedSkippy said | August 21st 2012 @ 5:59am | Report comment
Hard to say the NRL is expanding…what do you base that on? And the skill set there is also in decline.
August 21st 2012 @ 6:03am
David Lord said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:03am | Report comment
Well said KPM. But when the Wallabies make more fundamental mistakes than an under 14C side, there’s something radically wrong from within – a malaise that must be rooted out. I still believe the Wallabies have the talent to beat the All Blacks, with the right team. Where are Neville, Pyle, Cummins, and Foley?
August 21st 2012 @ 6:20am
kingplaymaker said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:20am | Report comment
David I generally have agreed with Deans’ strategy and selections, but for the first time in this last test I thought he made a big mistake in not selecting Cooper.
I think the Wallabies have a chance to beat the All Blacks but only with the best team possible available, and at the moment a critical player like Palu is injured and so it’s imperative to select a match-winner in a crucial position like Cooper. The problem of course is that while there is no depth after the top level in some positions, in others there is little quality. Comparing the All Blacks centre choices to the Wallabies is instructive. (At the moment there are lots of injuries too).
Even when the Wallabies can put out a full team with a chance to win it’s still something of a miracle given the endless riches the All Blacks have to call on. It would always be a case of sneaking past. Until real quality and depth come from somewhere it will always be like this.
The real battlefield for the strength of the international team is not taking place in Robbie Deans’ tactical considerations, but in the ARU’s boardroom as they work out how to combat the threat of the NRL, how their 5 teams can compete for talent against the NRL’s 15, how they can compete financially without private ownership against other codes that allow it, how to keep talent in private schools being invaded by the AFL, and how to prevent whole teams of Australian schoolboys from leaving to the NRL every generation. That’s what determines how the Wallabies will play, though it takes a wider vision than most fans are prepared to give to realise it. For what it’s worth the same process of codes swooping up talent is why Australia did so badly at the Olympics and the cricket team has declined. The NRL and AFL have taken more and more of what talent there is in a country of only 23 million.
August 21st 2012 @ 6:42am
rl said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:42am | Report comment
David, I can often find myself in disagreement with you, but most certainly not on the basic skills. It is not Dingo’s job to teach these blokes to catch, pass, and tackle. And I’ll back you with the call on Neville – he’s shown he can do all of those three things extremely well, and with a lot of gusto, so at this point he’s worth a try.
And you’re dead right – a “little bit” of improvement might have almost got us a win against an ABs side that wasn’t on it’s game. But it sure ain’t going to be enough on Saturday at Eden Park.
I will, however, respectfully disagree with you on a couple of issues:
1) Deans IS directly responsible for the intensity and urgency (or lack thereof) of his players at the contest. The Wallabies were slower to the breakdown and far less intense and physical. This issue was obvious even before the skills errors started setting in. Its a preparation issue – either he hasn’t prepared them correctly (bad news if this is the case) or they are tuning him out (the notorious “player power” movement rearing its ugly head again??)
2) Deans as coach is also responsible for attacking and defensive alignments, particularly the former. Barnes standing deep in the pocket is Deans’ call. Genia standing over the ruck like an Easter Island statue until the correct attacking play is readied is Deans’ call. If he wanted to change it, he could. Genia is a fantastic instinctive player, he should be entrusted to back himself, particuarly if a flyer like Hooper is there to quickly clean up any mess. (on that last issue, I’m starting to find myself agreeing with the observation of some Roarers who think that Pocock should possibly be packing down at blindside)
3) I need Jeznez’s assistance here, but Samo is not ready to pack into an Australian scrum as a loosie until he actually puts his shoulder to the wheel!! (watch the reply from Saturday and see what I mean) No coincidence our scrum was going backwards when he was on.
4) do not, under any circumstances, play Mitchell in the run on team until he is 100% fit (and he certainly doesn’t look it at the moment). Heed the lesson of Beale, who was clearly underdone. How they can on the one hand exclude Cooper (who looks in top condition) but not Beale (who looks about 5kgs fatter than the Beale we know and admire) is completely beyond me.
August 21st 2012 @ 7:45am
Harry said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:45am | Report comment
Good post rl and agree with you. Reject this line that well the ABs are just too good and Deans is doing the great job with the lack of talent at this disposal.
Your first point – We knew from SuperRugby that the forwards weren’t fit enough. Deans had 5 weeks on non-playing time including a 3 week camp and they turned up on Saturday clearly off the pace, same old – and yes 5 of those were Tahs forwards so we had seen it all season long.
Then I read reports they were bashing each other in training last week – a few days out is NOT the time to be doing this! That was on their camp when they should have been flogged every day for the first two weeks. And banned from then going out on the booze the moment they get out.
August 22nd 2012 @ 1:00am
Shop said | August 22nd 2012 @ 1:00am | Report comment
Well said rl. While the players should feel guilty for an abysmal performance, it is time Deans shouldered some of the blame. If there was a change of coach we’d very quickly see a change in performance for the better.
August 22nd 2012 @ 10:36am
joeb said | August 22nd 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
David, You’re a true fan of Neville and Pyle, as you’ve previously stated, and they’re decent players, though the Rebels finished 4th on our Conference ladder, and 13th in the Super Rugby standings. The two players that I think would do a better job for the Wallabies would be Mowen at 8 and Kimlin at 4 who played strong all Super Rugby season, and their team the Brumbies finished 2nd on the Conference ladder, and 7th in the overall Super Rugby standings.
And Waratah Foley, isn’t he a bit light, a-la Shipperley, for this looming “must win” heavyweight – being the operative word – contest?
That said, how is it also that Rodney Blake (Rebels) is so out of favour these days, and Greg Holmes as well, (though I’m no front row expert)?
We can’t really ask or expect lightweight men – boys, basically – to do heavyweight men’s work, so here’s how I see it:
1.
2. Polota-Nau or Moore
3.
4. Kimlin
5. Sharpe
6. Higgers
7. Radike
8. Mowen
9. Will
10. Berrick
11. Digby
12. Quade (Quade & Berrick can switch around as required, and Will can use the cut-out pass to Quade when needed – get the picture? And it’d be good to see Quade/Berrick work the run-a-round, though as always these contests are won up front in the forwards, as we well know – dominance up front is crucial).
13. Horney
14. Drew (if he’s right, otherwise Nick Cummins to start)
15. AAC
Reserves (in no specific order):
Beau Robinson?
Timani
Neville
Pyle
I don’t know, leave it to you chaps to suggest, and may the rugby Gods smile on us.
August 21st 2012 @ 6:04am
The Bush said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:04am | Report comment
Mate, whilst you’re not wrong, you’re also not entirely tight. There are a lot of Deans haters out there, myself included, who have frankly had enough of his abysmal coaching for legitimate reasons:-
1. Poor selection; Brown, Ma’afu, Mumm, all played too many tests. Remember the lack of a backup openside?
2. Pack of tactical/strategic plans; no use of the bench, 5/2 splits that aren’t used properly, a complete lack of game plans, selecting players out of position (constantly); and
3. Which jave led to his abysmal record when scrutinized; never beaten Scotland, first home loss to them since the eighties, losing to Samoa, presiding over the largest loss to South Africa ever, 10 losses against New Zealand in a row, losing a pool match in a world cup for the first time since ’95.
If you honestly some of this pain couldn’t have been avoided, but for Deans’ incompetence, then you’re blind to reality.
August 22nd 2012 @ 1:02am
Shop said | August 22nd 2012 @ 1:02am | Report comment
Ditto
August 21st 2012 @ 6:33am
Hurl said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:33am | Report comment
“Complacency is rife. You would think pulling on a Wallaby jersey would make every player feel like a giant.”
There’s probably a bit to this. As well as a non Australian coach there a several non Australian players in the Wallabys. Cooper has been in Aus 10 years or so, and obviously likes living there, but is he a passionate Australian. Kepu and Harris haven’t been there long enough to know the words to Waltzing matilda let alone Advance Australian Fair. Timani came to the Wallays from Tonga via New Zealand, Samo was a Fijian age grade player, Pocock from Africa,
I’m sure they see it as an honour to play for Australia, but do they have that fire in the belly do it for your country attitude that Wallaby teams of the past have had in spades.
August 21st 2012 @ 8:00am
mania said | August 21st 2012 @ 8:00am | Report comment
hurl – i reckon they’re professional enough to give full respect and honour to what ever jersey they’re in, but when the true blu aussies arent firing up either then why should they?
August 21st 2012 @ 12:39pm
Jeff said | August 21st 2012 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
But if we got rid of them who would you select.
We are not exactly overladen with talent !!!
August 21st 2012 @ 5:04pm
Sprigs said | August 21st 2012 @ 5:04pm | Report comment
Hurl, they chose to live in Australia.
For you it was presumably a default option.
I’ll back those who actively made a choice.
Can’t believe I would see such comments in modern Australia.
August 21st 2012 @ 5:54pm
ey Flat said | August 21st 2012 @ 5:54pm | Report comment
. In some cases they choose to play rugby in Australia. Its not about modern Australia, its about modern rugby
August 21st 2012 @ 7:56am
mania said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:56am | Report comment
KPM – i’m not a deans hater but i am puzzled why he’s relying on on the same ol crappy players. brumbies players should be given a shot this early in the WC cycle. saturday has shown that we cant expect anything new from the same old tah’s that have underperformed for the past 2-3 seasons, so why not try the equivalent brumbies players? whats the worst that could happen? the way it looks with the current squad, they’re going to lsoe unless the AB’s ahve a real bad day, so why doestn deans take control of his own destiny and start injecting some new blodd. it would definately up the hunger in the team
ps – i’m usually a higgers fan but his pssing around in the line instead of hitting the rucks was unforgivable on saturday. they really needed more numbers in the rucks yet higgers was out on the wing waiting for other ppl to do his work for him.
August 21st 2012 @ 8:04am
kingplaymaker said | August 21st 2012 @ 8:04am | Report comment
mania the problem is that while in New Zealand let’s say the selectors aren’t happy with the players in the team (which is rare), they can choose from a whole lot of other very talented players outside the squad. In Australia, even in the 1st XV there are many players who shouldn’t be there but have to be because there are no alternatives. New Zealand have far, far more good players than Australia these days.
Agree on Higginbotham: he has yet to play at international level as effectively as Super level. But as this is Australia, however badly he plays there aren’t a lot of alternatives!
August 21st 2012 @ 8:14am
mania said | August 21st 2012 @ 8:14am | Report comment
KPM – what i see is a lack of hunger. exchanging the incumbents with some brumbies & QLD equivalents will achieve two things. 1) those subbed out are going to come back hungry 2) give these fringe players an incentive to maybe do and become something awesome for aus rugby.
sure aus have shallow depth but picking the same players and expecting different results is really becoming cliche.
higgers needs a good kick in the azz and get back to fundementals. if your forwards are getting smashed at the rucks then you go help your brothers out. higgers just seagulled way too often
August 21st 2012 @ 8:46am
kingplaymaker said | August 21st 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
mania Higginbotham is a little like Messam in that he is a lighter weight, athletic player. Messam however did far better on saturday than Higginbotham.
August 21st 2012 @ 9:29am
Ben S said | August 21st 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
They’re totally different types of players. Just not comparable. Messam plays far tighter than Higginbotham does, and in any case, he played 6 with H’Botham at 8.
August 21st 2012 @ 8:38am
WQ said | August 21st 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
kingplaymaker, I am not a Deans hater however I seriously think he has to go!
For what ever reason he is not gelling with his player. I like everybody else have no idea why this is happening, I have my own thoughts on this however they are probably biased by my inner beliefs.
Regardless of all that though, it is undeniable that he is quite simply not getting the best from the player pool he has available, regardless of their ability.
Surely if nothing else he should be expected to do this?
August 21st 2012 @ 8:43am
Red Kev said | August 21st 2012 @ 8:43am | Report comment
I have made that exact argument many times before WQ (that the most important measure of a coach is does he get the best out of the players he has available and that Deans fails this test) – it doesn’t make a difference to KPM. He believes in Deans. You’d have more chance of convincing a congregation of Catholics to stop believing in God than to get KPM to stop believing in Deans.
August 21st 2012 @ 9:59am
WQ said | August 21st 2012 @ 9:59am | Report comment
You are probably right Red Kev, but I thought I would try..
August 22nd 2012 @ 1:12am
Shop said | August 22nd 2012 @ 1:12am | Report comment
I bet if Deans came up with the same results as the All Blacks coach he wouldn’t still have a job.
August 21st 2012 @ 9:11am
peterlala said | August 21st 2012 @ 9:11am | Report comment
KPM, I know you don’t accept the significance of this.
The All Blacks play the Wallabies, who are coached by an All Black (who is also a former All Black coach; though I would argue he’s doing his best work for them now.).
August 21st 2012 @ 5:12pm
Greg Twemlow said | August 21st 2012 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
Deans was John O’Neil’s pick. O’Neil is ARU CEO. He will NEVER admit Deans was the wrong choice by terminating his contract. Too big a loss of face.
And, WHY does the ARU continue with these inane press releases ? Another one today about “Wallabies Won’t Be Nice to NZ Again”.
STOP with the bulldust PR crap and start delivering on the paddock. You don’t see any of this kind of big noting palava from the ABs camp.
The ARU (and the majority of Australian Super15 franchises) are in dire straights, and no clear path to a recovery that is obvious to me.
IF the Wallabies cannot win a game in this series, and it is very possible, then surely it’s time for an uprising from Australian rugby lovers.
And, one final point – the lack of wins for the Wallabies against the ABs over 10+ years is actually not good for Oceania rugby. The ABs need strong competition and need to lose an occasional game to ensure there is strong interest in the game.
August 21st 2012 @ 6:14am
Darwin Stubbie said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:14am | Report comment
‘Complacency is rife. You would think pulling on a Wallaby jersey would make every player feel like a giant.’
Perhaps the fact that so many of them and the SR players aren’t actually born in Aust – they don’t have the connection …. But complacency is the major one and has been for years – once they have cracked it there isn’t the pressure or desire to force ongoing improvement – so flaws are evident in all the players and continue to surface was the pressure goes on …. Beale has had suspect defence ever since he arrived on the scene – so there shouldn’t be any real surprise he missed tackles … Burgess, Mitchell, JOC, Elsom, Palu, the props, TPN etc all have / had glaring gaps in their game … and the coach shouldn’t be spared either – poor selection, game plans, use of the bench … It all adds up to this possibly being the year finally that change is forced upon the ARU … Going for #1 spot ? … More likely looking at next years Lions series and realising that that could be a lopsided mess
August 21st 2012 @ 7:06am
soapit said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:06am | Report comment
its nothing to do with where they are born.
has a lot to do with getting regularly beaten. hard to feel immortal with an abundance of evidence to the contrary
August 21st 2012 @ 7:24am
Darwin Stubbie said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:24am | Report comment
For some it nothing other than an avenue to play at the highest level (Harris falls into that category) and for others it means higher payments, constant international rugby and able to play SR rugby (Timani etc) …. it’s not the major factor
August 21st 2012 @ 3:20pm
jeremy said | August 21st 2012 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
its nothing to do with where they are born.
Yet it matters where the COACH is born, according to many of the Aussie Roarers. This isn’t directed at you, I don’t know where you sit on Dean’s continued tenure but I find it to be a weird double standard for the foreign-born players to be OK to represent Australia but Deans ruining everything because he has an NZ passport.
On the one hand you’ve got the likes of Campo saying ‘Deans can’t fire up a pack of Aussies who want to go out there and smash the Kiwis’, on the other hand there are 5 or 6 players who would identify as being ‘grafts’, started growing in one country, finished up in another…so what makes them ‘Aussies’ and Deans not? Do they really have that deep abiding love of red soil, surf and blue skies? Or do they love rugby and love living here like Deans?
Most recently – Mike Harris in the Reds and playing for the Wallabies. FFS he’s a Westlake Boys College head prefect and played for North Harbour for three years. Sure he’s a professional and sure he’s got hellish skills but you can’t tell me he didn’t dream of becoming an All Black – being a Wallaby is his consolation prize. There’s no other way to put it. It’s like all the Australian cricketers who end up playing for Canada or Scotland because that’s their level of competence – not good enough to be in the best team in the world.
August 21st 2012 @ 5:07pm
Sprigs said | August 21st 2012 @ 5:07pm | Report comment
This is a country of immigrants, Jeremy, including, no doubt your ancestors.
August 21st 2012 @ 8:51pm
stillmatic1 said | August 21st 2012 @ 8:51pm | Report comment
and these immigrants mainly like to keep to their own people and identify with their own culture, sprigs. the love for their ne land comes much much later, even the wallaby captain admits this, FFS!! australia is one of the best places to live in the world, so why wouldnt people move here? this does not however mean that they inherently identify and would die for (metaphorically) australia.
this would be especially obvious to a kiwi who has spent his whole life in NZ and then gets a new job in oz and then, hey presto, your a wallaby son!! give me a break, rugby may pretend it is professional, but its still based on tribalism just like many sports.
unfortunately sprigs, you cant assume that a rugby player is professional and therefor has an inherent identity with whom they end up playing with. when it comes down to the crunch, would mike harris rather be a wallaby or was he always looking for his AB berth?
loving rugby and truly loving your recently adopted country are two very different things.
August 22nd 2012 @ 4:23am
Shop said | August 22nd 2012 @ 4:23am | Report comment
I couldn’t care less where the coach is from, what I care about is that he can’t get them to consistantly play well let alone win!
August 21st 2012 @ 6:33am
murph73 said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:33am | Report comment
You are effing joking, right? Are there are no lengths that people will go to make excuses for Deans? He selected them, he coaches them. Why shouldn’t he be accountable?
August 21st 2012 @ 6:33am
Kevy said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:33am | Report comment
Ben S, even without the depth of 13′s the All Blacks are winning games!! I do think we sometimes get ahead of ourselves. The All blacks have been consistent performers, on a bad day they may drop a game though they bounce back. I personally cannot remember the last time our wallabies bet the All black in consecutive games. Look at the game in Hong Kong a couple years ago, we just manage to beat the All Blacks and guess what, all the hype that we’ve closed the gap on them, etc etc, and what do you know, we still haven’t held the Bledisloe Cup for how many years and was totally outplayed in the RWC semis.
Lets be realistic, history says it all, we are a mile apart from the All Blacks, We are all getting very impatient and sick of all the excuse and please keep the hype away from the newspapers. We really don’t have anything to boast about and I’m sure that our cousins across the ditch will be giggling as we speak.
August 21st 2012 @ 6:40am
Uncle Argyle said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:40am | Report comment
David,
its Robbie Dean’s team is it not? The consistency of Robbie Deans tenure as Wallaby coach is the teams inconsistency. It a paradox indeed. For one I was happy to have him as our national coach and I am grateful that the Wallabies are now 2 in the world….but clearly number 2.
Whilst they have been brilliant under Deans twice; France in Paris and New Zealand in Brisbane apart from that there has been some good and some plain awful. What does really get under my skin is the lack of spirit or care shown by these blokes. Its the same old tripe and crap rolled out like Sundays roast. On Wednesday its sandwiches and by Saturday its Shepherds pie but we are expected to digest the same crap in a re-packaged form. Its not good enough I do not for one minute accept we do not have the players.
Its a culture. F ab Fenton once penned “There is a spirit in the Wallabies mere words cannot describe…” Well Fab old mate here some – Crap, Selfish, Ambivalent, Lazy, Disrespectful and Poor’ – Bill Cerutti, Aub Hodgson would be rolling in their grave at the lack of heart they play with. If Tony Shaw ever had hair – he would be bald from what he see’s of today’s crop. Where is the hunger where is the desire?
Glenn McGrath – champion Aussie quick never socialised with the opposition. Why, becuase it was his job to beat them not like them. There was always time for a beer when he retired. These blokes bro hug and tweet. GET A ROOM!
I will be there on Saturday with my old Addidas tri-stripe jumper on with head band and bushy beard doing my best Greg Cornelson impersonation…
August 21st 2012 @ 6:49am
rl said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:49am | Report comment
Classic UA, can you please post a photo? Headless of course (a lot like Beale’s play at the moment!
)
Perhaps the ARU could try a retro round to try and instill some pride back in the jersey??
I think there’s a balance – the great Tony Shaw did socialise with the opposition after matches. But this was always preceded by a whole-hearted 80-odd minutes of trying to bury his drinking partners in the mud.
August 21st 2012 @ 6:52am
Uncle Argyle said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:52am | Report comment
…Indeed!
August 21st 2012 @ 6:54am
kingplaymaker said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:54am | Report comment
UA Beale’s game could hardly have been predicted.
August 21st 2012 @ 6:59am
Uncle Argyle said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:59am | Report comment
I am not into fortune telling and moons being aligned but his form and injuries and off field issues did not warrant selection in my book. I did state this prior to the match KPM so I am not a hind sight hero in that respect.
Mate I’am gutted at the state of the Wallabies. Its not the injuries it the 22 on the park – there is some individual efforts but the are not a ‘Team’ – The All Blacks play for New Zealand – these blokes are playing for themselves.
August 21st 2012 @ 7:03am
kingplaymaker said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:03am | Report comment
It’s strange to think UA that the backline was the strongest defensively for a long time and would have been expected if not to score many tries at least to stop them. Which it would largely have done, except for Beale!
August 21st 2012 @ 7:05am
moaman said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:05am | Report comment
Uncle—you’re just grumpy because you missed out on a crate of Waikato Draught.
August 21st 2012 @ 7:17am
rl said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:17am | Report comment
no-one could predict it – but as UA said there were some significant red flags. Again, how they can make the one judgement on Cooper and not Beale confounds me.
August 21st 2012 @ 8:34am
Red Kev said | August 21st 2012 @ 8:34am | Report comment
KPM – if this is the strongest defensive backline then why did the Wallabies miss 23 tackles, 16 of them by the backs?
Go back and watch the Wallabies against France in 2010 and listen to the northern hemisphere commentary “It just goes to show that you can have the best scrum in the world, the biggest forward pack, but if you can’t score points you won’t win matches”
This is what the Wallabies have been known for throughout their history – inventive creative backline play, skills executed at speed to counter their smaller scrum and forward pack – until Robbie Deans and his misguided notion of how to coach.
August 21st 2012 @ 7:06am
Uncle Argyle said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:06am | Report comment
It could be read that way but I think the AB’s made some unforced errors that duded themselves from a try or two. I recall Read and Jane may have each knocked on when tries were on.
Its hard to say how the nature of the game would have changed if those had been scored. I never walked away from that game in awe of our defence TBH KPM.
MOAMAN – YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT. I AM CONCERNED ABOUT WAL – HAS ANYONE HEARD FROM HIM?
August 21st 2012 @ 7:42am
kingplaymaker said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:42am | Report comment
UA true, but Beale seemed to stand out.
It’s a real shame Palu isn’t around for this next match as with him and Cooper at least the Wallabies would be able to play at something towards their best, even if JOC is out.
August 21st 2012 @ 8:21am
Uncle Argyle said | August 21st 2012 @ 8:21am | Report comment
Mate – the non selection of Greg Holmes is a great disappointment to me. I don’t think Adam Wallace-Harrison would disgrace the jumper if given a shot either.
August 21st 2012 @ 9:08am
Harry said | August 21st 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
AWH wouldn’t disgrace the jumper I’m sure you mean.
UA and rl with your talk of Tony Shaw, and others pointing out the non-Austalian heritage of many of the current players (Genia IMO is an interesting exception – a BBC boarder, he was well inodoctinerated into Qld and Australian rugby traditions) reinfoirce to me the big problem in that the Wallabies have lost their Australian identity under Deans.
Saturday’s limp effort was not the slightest bit surprising given the form line, the players selected and the tactics. Outpassioned up front (no surprise, see Tahs v Saders, Chiefs and Reds 2 this year for clear evidence that they are of the pace of the top teams) and outgunned in the backs. From a rugby perspective and painful as it was for a Wallaby supporter, it was lovely to see 2 tries from set pieces.
August 21st 2012 @ 9:15am
Uncle Argyle said | August 21st 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
correction AWH wouldn’t disgrace the jumper – Thanks Harry
August 21st 2012 @ 3:56pm
Tarragon Fields said | August 21st 2012 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
There was nothing wrong with your grammar the first time. ” I don’t think…”
August 21st 2012 @ 7:08am
soapit said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:08am | Report comment
and remember they were behind at half time against france. only 1 half of good rugby there
August 21st 2012 @ 7:08am
Uncle Argyle said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:08am | Report comment
fair point, but a good half it was?
August 21st 2012 @ 2:32pm
ted said | August 21st 2012 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
Brilliant
August 21st 2012 @ 4:07pm
Cliff (Bishkek) said | August 21st 2012 @ 4:07pm | Report comment
Hi UA,
I enjoy your posts and remember watching Tony Shaw and others do what they did with passion and good old fashion mongrel and guts. I played in that era – 1970 — up to 1975.
Now I am sitting here in Ghana managing a construciton project and have DsTV and on ESPN yesterday thay had the Wallabies playing ABs – the mathc where Eales kicks the goal at the last minute.
Well the current pack of complacent (and gutless I would add) Wallabies need to watch that match for sheer brazen guts and the do-or-die effort of each and every Wallaby on the park. They were behind for most of the match but you would not think so.
So we do not have to go as far back as Tony Shaw and Loane to see full blooded Wallaby efforts – they were there up until the end of the MacQueen era – and then the slide – our forwards do not get mean enough.
Until the guts and mongrel and hatred of the opposition (once over the white line) comes back the Wallabies will continue to lose.
There are so many things wrong with Rugby in Aus – ARU, skills, guts, grass roots – I think that Aus Rugby is going BACKWARDS. We will survive and as for No. 2 – well if we are No. 2 – what does that say for the rest – apart from SA
August 21st 2012 @ 6:53am
ANON69 said | August 21st 2012 @ 6:53am | Report comment
Deans is usless. Have never been able to develop any meaning ful combination. Branes does not complment Genia, no fluidity there, Wallby mid field is awful. They should bring in Cooper, Harris , Horne Drop Polata Nau to the Bench and bring in Rod Moore.
Deans hs to go after this test, because Wallbaies has no chane if either Cup.
August 21st 2012 @ 10:36am
jameswm said | August 21st 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Is Rod Moore making a comeback? Has he moved from prop to hooker now?
August 21st 2012 @ 7:03am
ohtani's jacket said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:03am | Report comment
When I think of how Wayne Smith resigned after the All Blacks lost the John Eales retirement match, it’s embarrassing that Robbie won’t walk. Embarrassing and frustrating for those of us wanting a contest. Five years of this when it wasn’t working by year two. Unbelievable.
August 21st 2012 @ 7:22am
murph73 said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:22am | Report comment
Hey should he walk? He gets paid a million bucks a year, fails and nothing happens except a conga line of suckholes queue up to make excuses for him.
August 21st 2012 @ 10:11am
Harry said | August 21st 2012 @ 10:11am | Report comment
OJ like you I am depressed that the Bledisloe is no longer a fair dinkum contest – already was fairly sure, but Saturday was absolute proof. This disappointment is compounded by the fact that last year I thought we genuinely provided a contest. Was hoping and expecting we’d build on that in 2012, but a really poor SurperRugby season compounded by Deans’ hopeless selections and obstinance means we have fallen disasterously back.
When we get beaten on Saturday (all I ask is that we have a go – but thats unlikely as the players are now hopelessly befuddled) I’d hope Deans shows some honour and resigns. I would like to see Rod McQueen then appointed as caretaker coach for the rest of the Rugby Championship – a holding operation – and a new coach appointed in time for the (now dead rubber) Bledisloe match up in Brissy in October, and the hard work of shaping a cohesive Wallaby side can once again begin. IMO that coach should be Ewen McKenzie.
There is actually a reasonable chance this will happen – McKenzie coaching the Walls by October – as JON will realise he’ll get about 5 Briwi’s along to Lang Park if he keeps Deans in. And the one thing our boy JON reacts to is a threat to the wallet.
August 21st 2012 @ 7:24am
mick-e said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:24am | Report comment
No argument about Cooper and Mitchell David?. Kane Douglas and Slipper beating down the door? Its laughable.
I guess when youre a rugby “expert” you can consider your opinion beyond contest but for us mere mortals there are many arguments here. To dump so much on Barnes as people are doing is plain stupid.
As I have already said Barnes was playing behind a beaten pack, which couldnt get fast ball, or any go forward over the advantage line. He actually made a damn good fist of keeping a losing team in the hunt. His performance was actually better than Genias on the night.
God knows what Cooper would have done but based on his hugely flawed performances under real test match pressure (a la rugby world cup) I hate to think. But you and the other armchair critics will probably get your wish and here’s the go-I bet with Cooper we lose again and by more than with Barnes at pivot.
And as for Mitchell did you see him stood up by Speight a few weeks ago? And Kane Douglas is beating down the door??? Of what? Certainly not a rugby team with a decent set of forwards. Hes far too soft to put up against the Kiwis. And Slipper?? Have you actually watched him scrum? He cannot. When he came on against the Irish he rocketed backwards in the very first scrum and conceded a penalty. He spends more time seagulling on the wing than he does in the tight. Another Guy Sheperdson or Matt Dunning perhaps but nothing more. The Franks bros will have him for lunch.
But sorry. Theres no argument I remember.
August 21st 2012 @ 7:39am
murph73 said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:39am | Report comment
Odd. They didn’t “have him for dinner” when the Reds played the Cru
August 21st 2012 @ 11:59am
mick-e said | August 21st 2012 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Were talking test match rugby. Didnt you watch the RWC semi final. Cooper is fine when he has time and space in super rugby or low level tests. Put him up against the best and well the rest is history. Didnt Horan say he should go away and learn to be a test player? Didnt Graham Henry say he was the Wallabies glaring weakness in the RWC. Dont think theres anything odd there.
August 21st 2012 @ 9:15am
Harry said | August 21st 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
Yep Barnes is ideal when you are looking to not lose by too many. He’s done that admirably for the Tahs this year and delivered perfectly on Saturday.
But all this Cooper or Barnes is missing the point. The real question if whether it should be Cooper or Rob Horne – Barnes to 12, Faingaa or AAC to 13.
Anyway as has been pointed out, until our forwards match the Kiwi’s intensity its all somewhat academic.
August 21st 2012 @ 12:27pm
mick-e said | August 21st 2012 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
With respect youre missing the point with Cooper V Barnes. Were talking about the pivots position. Its vital. And Cooper just doesnt cut it at the highest test level. He doesnt know what he is going to do next, none of the players do either and that may work once in 10 times but it can have a disastrous outcome. Did anyone ever feel Lynagh or Larkham didnt know what they were going to do next? As for Barnes getting the scores close I say thats a miracle given ninety percent of the forwards went walk about.
But you guys all want more Cooper and I expect Deans is silly enough to give it to you. And watch the ABs cruise to an even bigger win Saturday. Only the forwards can turn it around as you correctly say and theyre way too soft at the moment. Cooper will try and be the showman and the magician and the clinical Blacks will just carve him up.
August 21st 2012 @ 12:34pm
Justin2 said | August 21st 2012 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
Funny the Reds seem to know what Cooper is going to do and the Wallabies have played their best football with him at 10. Barnes is a plodder, always has been always will be.
Regardless the tactics stink so it may improve the performance with QC but thats just the tip of the ice berg
August 21st 2012 @ 2:02pm
mick-e said | August 21st 2012 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
Were talking test match rugby not how Cooper may fit into a beaten super 15 outfit. Barnes is a genuine test player, Cooper is an entertainer-magician or clown take your pick. But he wont win a test against the Kiwis.
August 21st 2012 @ 2:31pm
Harry said | August 21st 2012 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
So what happened in Brisbane last September and Hong Kong last October? Seem to recall us winning those tests and Quade playing a big part in doing so. So does the nation of NZ which was petrified of Quade at the RWC. Has Barnes ever played a big hand in a winning game against a kiwi side at test and SuperRugby level? Do you really think the Kiwi’s are remotely worried about Barnes steering the Wallabies?
We agree – we’ll get done anyway because the forwards are too slow and soft. ANd by playing Barnes at 10 we’ll condemn ourselves to more of the same rubbish that we got last Saturday – the backs way behind the gain line and retreating further at the first whiff of gunshot, passes been thrown behind players, dull one out charges that are easily contained, or unco-ordinated sideways running resulting in the winger being easily bundled into touch. For variety we’ll get a few kicks from too deep straight down the Kiwi back 3′s throat, with little chasing pressure. If you really think that approach is going to beat the Kiwi’s after Saturday night and the Tahs superrugby season, then you are being extremely optimistic.
Agree Quade is erratic and the odds are good Quade will probably fail if he starts, not helped by the fact that there is no discernbable game plan or style from the Wallabies. But at least he holds out the threat of something different to challenge the ABs and has a history of occasional success. And he’ll take some pressure of Genia and whoever plays 12 – including Barnes.
August 21st 2012 @ 9:18pm
stillmatic1 said | August 21st 2012 @ 9:18pm | Report comment
quade did NOT have a big part in those matches at all, harry!! simple revisionism. i seem to recall genia and samo doing most of the work in brisbane and it was more an emsemble of many in HK. i was at the game and beale, joc were the highlights. quade does bring a lot of width to the wallaby play though, but he does more running around behind the gainline than berrick to be honest. he paries this though by at least attacking the line at times too.
it wouldnt make sense NOT to have some level of concern about an unpredictable player, but the beauty was, just as mick-e says, his own players dont have a clue what he is going to do. and despite justin2′s assertion, many a play didnt work out for the reds due to his teammates not knowing. quade passing an inside ball, off a set piece, to digby hardly shows much in the way of anyone “knowing” what he is going to do. its a damn set play ffs, and thats not what mick-e is talking about.
this being said, i like a genia/quade/barnes combo and this would perhaps benefit the team most with quades unpredictability surrounded by a measure of calm and tactical nous. means nothing unless the forwards bash my boys around though.
August 21st 2012 @ 9:37pm
Rob from Brumby Country said | August 21st 2012 @ 9:37pm | Report comment
What happened in Hong Kong? A kick after the siren happened in Hong Kong. As for Brisbane, you’re kidding yourself if you’re going to credit that win to Cooper. Genia was far and away the star of that show. Cooper was the player who stood there and did nothing while Ma’a Nonu charged past him for a try. Maybe it’s true that QC stood no chance of stopping him, but he didn’t even try to! I will not tolerate such pussyfooting by ANY player in my national team. If you’re in for a penny, then you’re bloody well in for a pound.
It will be suggested that I’m being unfair to him by overlooking the good things that he did in that game (and in other matches), but to those who would raise that objection I say to you that Quade Cooper has never won a game for the Wallabies.
If you wish to contest my assertion, oblige me by answering this question; when has he ever performed well behind a pack that performed as badly as the Wallabies pack did on Saturday night? When has he ever been the sole standout of a side – even a losing side? When has he ever been the difference between defeat and victory? When has he ever played so well in a match that undeniably his team would have lost if he had been replaced by a supposedly-inferior flyhalf like Ben Lucas?
The answer is never. Cooper is a point-scorer, but he is reliant on good performances from those around him. He is not a gamebreaker. Will Genia is a gamebreaker. David Pocock is a gamebreaker. Quade Cooper. Is not. A gamebreaker.
A rider that I will add to my statement is that Berrick Barnes is also not a matchwinner. He also cannot win a match behind a crumbling forward pack. He has a grittier temperament than Cooper and his efforts on the weekend were a testament to this, and valiant in the face of adversity. But he could not inspire anything to occur against the run of play.
But the fact is that 90% of the world’s flyhalves are like this. Here in AustraZealand we have been spoilt by Lynaghs and Larkhams and Carters and Crudens. They are all 10%ers. But you go elsewhere, and you find that other teams have been forced to find ways to win without brilliant flyhalves. Ireland, Wales (before Priestland), France, even arguably England under Jonny Wilkinson. Morne Steyn is not regarded as an attacking genius, but it has not prevented the Boks from tasting considerable success. More than us, anyway.
I think the reality is that the only Australian player who looks close to being the complete package flyhalf is Lealiifano, and I have massive doubts about whether he could transfer his Super Rugby form to international level. Like QC, I think he would find that there are a lot of tricks that you can get away with at provincial level that will get you found out in Test rugby. Perhaps there will come a time when he is mature enough, but he is not ready yet, even if he were uninjured.
The reality is this – we have no brilliant flyhalves, and we are just going to have to find a way to win in other areas of the paddock until JOC or Lealiifano or whoever is ready to make the step up and become the main man. I feel cruel for saying it, but Quade will never be that man for Australia, no matter how much we wish he would be. That doesn’t mean he has no place in the team – we just need to stop thinking of him as the only possible hope for Aussie rugby.
August 21st 2012 @ 9:48pm
Justin2 said | August 21st 2012 @ 9:48pm | Report comment
Mick still and brumby boy I ain’t arguing as it he said she said but for all BBs courage he is a plodder in comparison to QC, end of story. You can say he isn’t a test 10 but he’s had more results than Barnes, the Reds shone with him at the helm and Barnes gone. And nsw with Barnes? Just super…
Regardless of all that we won’t win on Saturday because we have a coach with no strategy, ingenuity, courage or passion IMO.
August 21st 2012 @ 10:14pm
Rob from Brumby Country said | August 21st 2012 @ 10:14pm | Report comment
Cooper isn’t a Test 10. Those results you claim that he got us were not his own work. Stop giving him credit for those victories that had clearly been left to Genia and Beale to piece together.
August 22nd 2012 @ 7:24am
Justin2 said | August 22nd 2012 @ 7:24am | Report comment
Watch how AUS play with him and without him. There is no comparison to the width and space he provides the team. Counter that with Barnes
And by the way he has had MoM awards within his first couple of tests v England and Ireland. He has only had 2 seasons at 10 for AUS and done pretty well I believe but has had some monumental c–k ups along the way.
August 22nd 2012 @ 6:30pm
stillmatic1 said | August 22nd 2012 @ 6:30pm | Report comment
agree with that justin2. whatever his faults and whether he wins the wallabies games or not, you cannot deny the shape that the wallabies play with whilst he is on the park. is it necessarily effective, maybe, maybe not, but his style seems to lift which ever team he plays with.
berrick is a solid toiler and technically astute, but is simply the peter wallace of the wallabies. wont strike much fear into an opposition at all but will guts out a game.
to be fair to berrick though, if quade gets credit for the reds and wallaby wins he is apart of, surely berrick should get credit for a sweep of wales. quade is not the messiah, nor berrick the pariah. just get deans to sort this damn team out!!
August 22nd 2012 @ 2:28pm
Larry said | August 22nd 2012 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
spot on mick-e!
I think David wants Zac ‘not even the best fly-half at his club’ holmes to be in the mix as well! It’s laughable really.
August 21st 2012 @ 7:24am
murph73 said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:24am | Report comment
Oh and by the way, David, the fact that you actually suggest Mitchell returns to the starting line up in that side reveals you as a truly someone with absolutely no idea.
August 21st 2012 @ 7:36am
kingplaymaker said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:36am | Report comment
When’s the team announced?
August 21st 2012 @ 3:16pm
Dexter William said | August 21st 2012 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
Spot on.
August 21st 2012 @ 7:35am
Pogo said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:35am | Report comment
Would Tamati Ellison, Robbie Fruean or Rene Ranger make the Wallaby squad though? I’d bet they would.
August 21st 2012 @ 7:58am
formeropenside said | August 21st 2012 @ 7:58am | Report comment
With Deans selecting, or with a normal human as coach?
August 21st 2012 @ 4:35pm
Pogo said | August 21st 2012 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
That was meant to be a reply to Ben S suggesting that the ABs lack depth in the centres because SBW was named at 13. Somehow it ended up down here.
August 22nd 2012 @ 10:08am
Ben S said | August 22nd 2012 @ 10:08am | Report comment
I think it’s been proven emphatically that Ranger and Fruean aren’t Test midfielders ATM. They struggle for consistency at Super level.