Who is policing the police at football games?
Columnist By Mike Tuckerman, 24 Aug 2012 Mike Tuckerman is a Roar Expert
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The sight of police wading into fans at Edensor Park on Tuesday night was as predictable as this column. Yet the question must be asked – who is policing the police at football games?
If I was a mole operating deep within Football Federation Australia to create internal divisions around the game, I would schedule a friendly between an A-League club and a former National Soccer League club.
That way, eight years of brooding anger at seeing their club relegated to second-tier status would be all it took for one rogue fan to make a statement and create negative headlines across Australia by disrupting the match.
Sadly, scheduling a night-time friendly between Sydney United and Western Sydney Wanderers at Edensor Park is simply begging for trouble.
Even if the United fans are nothing more than boisterous, their actions will be monitored not only by mainstream media sniffing a juicy story, but also by certain members of the police force who act as if the average football fan just stepped off a Viking longship in preparation for the next pillage.
What is it about the police and football in Australia?
I might be the most innocuous looking human on the planet but step inside a football ground as a ticket-holder and suddenly I feel as if I’m on the FBI’s Most Wanted list.
The menacing gaze, the sneering contempt, the pack mentality and constant need to be a visible presence – I’ve seen it all when it comes to policing at football games and I must say it’s not a pretty sight.
According to several eye witnesses at Edensor Park on Thursday night, a lone spectator set off a firecracker, prompting a number of police to swarm United’s home end.
With police struggling to physically get to the offender, by most accounts officers simply pepper-sprayed the fans around him and then lashed out at anyone else who happened to be standing in the way.
Now – I wasn’t there, and I’m not trying to deliberately paint an unflattering account of the police.
But I have been to enough games to know that for some reason it’s deemed acceptable for many law enforcement officials to treat football fans as aliens who deserve to be wiped from the face of the planet.
I don’t know what it is about the round-ball game that riles security forces so much, but time and again I have felt threatened by the presence of security guards and police at football games.
In fact, I once wrote about a grim encounter with Suncorp Stadium’s ever-zealous security brigade and have had similar experiences on the Gold Coast and in Melbourne since.
I fully applaud FFA’s decision to hand down five-year bans to those involved in crowd disturbances over the past few weeks because I don’t want these kinds of so-called supporters ruining the match-day experience for everyone else.
But by the same token I have to wonder why it is these types of crowd disturbances become front-page material when we all know anti-social behaviour occurs at every other sporting event in the country.
“Eleven arrested and forty five evicted! Police officer assaulted! Thirteen people banned from the stadium for six months! Insane, they need to crack down and question what is happening in this code. Absolute disgrace. Oops, sorry, that was the arrest figures for State of Origin II last year.”
So goes the popular meme doing the rounds on Facebook yesterday courtesy of the Sydney United Supporters page.
It’s hard not to feel a bit sorry for genuine United supporters but surely FFA will think long and hard about how pre-season fixtures are scheduled in the future.
And in all the media coverage surrounding this latest crowd disturbance, one question remains unasked.
Who is policing the police?
Mike Tuckerman is a Sydney-born journalist and lifelong football fan. After lengthy stints watching the beautiful game in Germany and Japan, he has settled in Brisbane and has been a Roar columnist since December 2008. Follow Mike on twitter @Mike_Tuckerman
August 24th 2012 @ 2:17am
Football United said | August 24th 2012 @ 2:17am | Report comment
Police hate Football. They hate the pack mentality, they hate that they can’t control the fans every movement, they hate the fact they don’t sit quietly in there seats and are so willing to crack in any fans skull in the name of stopping hooliganism. It took years before MVFC were able to thrash out a supporter charter thats kept the feral riot cops on their leashes out of sight and fans could enjoy a football match again. NSW need this even more so as after experiencing a Sydney Away game late last season, i’ve discovered NSWPOL are a whole new level of thug to their Victorian equivalent. A General Football charter needs to be implemented with consultation between FFA, NSWPOL and the top Football clubs, NSWPL and A-League. It needs to define the role of the police and security at Football matches and what appropriate action may be taken by both them and the fans when exchanges are needed. Club appointed stewards should be employed as a means of first contact on match day between fans and staff rather than just sending in the riot cops who are all to eager to ruin’s someone life.
August 24th 2012 @ 6:01am
Kasey said | August 24th 2012 @ 6:01am | Report comment
A very good question..If you go looking for trouble, you CAN find it in the most innocuous of actions. I think a lot of cops & Seccos at A-League games go expecting trouble and this affects their posture is towards all fansand the way they act & interpret all fans actions, not just those of a few unruly idiots.
Its a simple formula:
The media paint all football fans as hooligans
Cops rostered on think “right I’m going to have to deal with these Millwall-like hooligans tonight/today. Better put my tough guy face on”
this aggressive posture affects the way they interact with all fans not just a drunken idiot.
It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy….any minor issue & suddenly the cop/Secco pictures Cronulla in 2005 and goes wading in up to his neck to ‘deal with the ‘situation’ ironically actually creating a bigger ‘situation.
Media reports crowd ‘trouble at yet another Soccer game…the circle of football fan life is now complete:(
August 24th 2012 @ 7:03am
MV Dave said | August 24th 2012 @ 7:03am | Report comment
Yes the Police seemed a lot calmer at the MV games over the past 12 months or so. Good work by MV, the fans groups and Police…
In my 8 years of membership and watching MV l recall only one incident at the ground where punches were thrown…not too bad considering the AFL media would tell us to be aware of Sokkah Riots when attending games.
August 24th 2012 @ 9:21am
Roger said | August 24th 2012 @ 9:21am | Report comment
“Yes the Police seemed a lot calmer at the MV games over the past 12 months or so. Good work by MV, the fans groups and Police…”
Over the past few years, we’ve gone from dozens of police swooping down on “unruly fans” (who were singing and chanting together, taking off their shirts to celebrate goals, and even standing on seats!) to police letting fans be fans, and allowing them to largely regulate themselves.
August 24th 2012 @ 8:23am
whiskeymac said | August 24th 2012 @ 8:23am | Report comment
Hate football? I know a lot actually play the game and enjoy it and support it. That’s the first wrong statement.
Hate pack mentality and lack of control? To understand it put yourself in their shoes. if you can. you may also need to understand what the definition of a crowd and riot is and the dynamic between the two. a lot of work was done by the English in this respect – they are world leaders in this aspect of policing for sadly obvious reasons – and they influence NSW police policy and response. Google crowd dynamic and policing.
the phrase you used “pack mentality” is telling though….
were you at the game?
August 24th 2012 @ 9:23am
Roger said | August 24th 2012 @ 9:23am | Report comment
How many games have you attended whiskeymac? Do even know what you’re talking about?
I for one have witnessed police getting up-tight about fans singing and chanting as one, seeming to almost look for any excuse to swoop and kick someone out (e.g. I saw a couple of young men get kicked out for taking off their shirts to celebrate a goal). If that’s not over the top, I don’t know what is.
August 24th 2012 @ 9:44am
whiskeymac said | August 24th 2012 @ 9:44am | Report comment
On this subject mine is not opinion dressed up as authority unlike some other posts. But thanks for the credibility test, Roger, of “how many games” – that old chestnut never gets boring to hear banded about and is undoubtedly the truest and best possible way to determine someones football knowledge, even if this subject, today, is equally a policing issue. I was feeling a little left out having posted on this site for about 7 years and having only now joined “that” club.
August 24th 2012 @ 10:17am
Roger said | August 24th 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
So the answer is none then? Right, that’s why you aren’t aware of what the police are like at these games. Because had you of attended games, you wouldn’t be saying what you’re saying.
August 24th 2012 @ 10:34am
whiskeymac said | August 24th 2012 @ 10:34am | Report comment
Silence is not an admission of guilt in Australia. In any event its another wrong assumption Roger but i don’t feel the need to provide a resume either.
What did i say which was so offensive to your one time at the game anecdote? The fact cops may like and play the game (true) or there is a dynamic between crowds/riots/violence (true)?
Equally you offer one particular viewpoint. Is it not relevant to suggest the other view point as well (ie Police and or authorities). As in all things there are three versions of the truth. Theirs, yours and somewhere in the middle. So why did it pan out the way it did – no point just looking at one side if there were two involved.
August 24th 2012 @ 10:48am
Roger said | August 24th 2012 @ 10:48am | Report comment
I’m not asking for a resume, a simple “yes, I have attended games” would suffice. Yet you keep dodging the question, in your own words, I find that…… “telling”.
The issue with your post was that you were challening the fact that police don’t like the “pack mentality” of active fans. If you had been to games, you would know that it would be incorrect to say that police don’t treat fans acting and singing as one poorly. They do treat these fans poorly, and it doesn’t take many game attendances to observe it for yourself. Hence my question about your attendance (or lack thereof). You see, if you haven’t attended games, you aren’t in any position to say whether or not Football United was correct in his post.
August 24th 2012 @ 12:38pm
whiskeymac said | August 24th 2012 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
oh well if it will placate you. yes i have attended games. from season 1 too.
so. know much about policing roger?
August 24th 2012 @ 12:47pm
Roger said | August 24th 2012 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
No, I’m not a police officer. Are you?
So, if you’ve attended games, surely you would agree with Football United’s comments, as you would have observed it for yourself.
August 24th 2012 @ 1:21pm
whiskeymac said | August 24th 2012 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
You dont need to be a cop to know a little about Policing. You just need to read a little.
Still you say i challenged (oh dear how dare I) the notion police don’t like a pack mentality. I wrote:- ” “Hate pack mentality and lack of control? To understand it put yourself in their shoes. if you can. you may also need to understand what the definition of a crowd and riot is and the dynamic between the two.”
Wheres the challenge that affronted you and your shirtless mates?
I agree with the idea police hate it. Of course they hate it. Pack mentality/ Groupthink leads to more problematic issues. Its why i suggested an understanding of what the police’s issues are with pack mentality to begin with. To try and understand the other side to the issue. Was hardly a controversial suggestion – to try and understand the other side of the issue, or so I thought.
However I see you are from Melbourne. Who knows what VICPOL do, I get the impression they are doing a good job now? My experiences in football are in Sydney and Central Coast. From the games i have been too – no, i don’t agree with football united, but that is my (opposing) opinion.
August 24th 2012 @ 2:15pm
Roger said | August 24th 2012 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
Yes, I’ve done some search on crowd control – especially in the UK. An effective system is low police presence. Police raring for a fight, with batons and pepper spray, actually escalates the situation. My point was – you don’t know much about policing either – so I headed you off at the pass before you could say that I don’t know anything about policing, and am therefore not allowed to make comment about it.
Yea, not going to waste any more time posting back and forth about this. Read your original post, everyone can see it, and tell me it’s not disagreeing with what Football United was saying. Suffice to say, I disagreed with your post disagreeing. There, sorted.
August 24th 2012 @ 2:33pm
whiskeymac said | August 24th 2012 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
I have no concern with you posting on things you know nothing about, I am just waiting for you to post about something you do. Still I enjoyed the discourse, we can always differ on a blog.
August 24th 2012 @ 2:37pm
Roger said | August 24th 2012 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
Heh. Nice.
So I don’t know what my own experience is? My own observation? And you disagree with my point about a low-profile police presence? Huh. Interesting.
August 24th 2012 @ 2:53pm
whiskeymac said | August 24th 2012 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
Suffice to say, I disagreed with your post disagreeing. There, sorted.
August 24th 2012 @ 3:04pm
Roger said | August 24th 2012 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
Sorted.
August 24th 2012 @ 11:26am
Kasey said | August 24th 2012 @ 11:26am | Report comment
e.g. I saw a couple of young men get kicked out for taking off their shirts to celebrate a goal.
Not if moobs were on show!
August 24th 2012 @ 4:38pm
mahony said | August 24th 2012 @ 4:38pm | Report comment
You clearly have no idea Whiskymac. I will never forget the Telstra Dome game against Newcastle with those janckbooted thugs in blue literaly lining up at the entrances and spoiling for a fight. That was the begining of the end for therm. I knoew it in my guts that night there would be trouble – and there was. Ever since the police have, rightly, been in retreat as they finaly looked up the term “community policing” for the first time since most of them left the academy. This was 100% a result of fan leadership and club support. Thats is where the solution to this Sydney trouble will lie also.
August 24th 2012 @ 4:43pm
The Cattery said | August 24th 2012 @ 4:43pm | Report comment
We have come to quite a pass when a long time respected and intelligent contributor such as Whiskymac can be lambasted for expressing a perfectly valid opinion.
August 24th 2012 @ 6:12pm
Roarfan said | August 24th 2012 @ 6:12pm | Report comment
The Cattery, I tend to agree with you. In my opinion whiskeymac was conveying an opinion (there are always 2 sides to a story) and Roger is hellbent on claiming that his view is the only correct one. That really amuses me on these forums how some of the posters think that they have all the wisdom and anyone who disagrees is dumb, ill informed, doesn’t attend games etc. etc. It’s a funny world we live in.
August 25th 2012 @ 9:45am
MV Dave said | August 25th 2012 @ 9:45am | Report comment
The problem for Cattery is that he is quite happy to see the opposing view in Sokkah articles but he ain’t so open minded when it’s an AFL issue…
August 25th 2012 @ 1:36am
Kim Hart said | August 25th 2012 @ 1:36am | Report comment
Do football fans imagine that there are not large quantities of police at rugby games or cricket games for example. Stop playing the victim.
August 25th 2012 @ 8:23am
Brick Tamlin of the Pants Party said | August 25th 2012 @ 8:23am | Report comment
Yeah guys lets keep our mouths shut and let the police,security and media treat us all like scum.
August 25th 2012 @ 6:33pm
Kim Hart said | August 25th 2012 @ 6:33pm | Report comment
Whoever lit the firecracker broke a law (several actually) and by law the police have a right and indeed obligation to detain, investigate, charge, prosecute etc when a crime is committed. So explain how
a) attempting to detain a wrongdoer when that is what you are expected to do by the general public is classed as treating someone like scum and
b) police defending themselves from a moronic mob (regardless of who that mob had it in for) is anything other than exactly what they should be doing.
You lot sound an awful lot like the types who believe that you should be able to do whatever you like regardless of the law without consequence simply because you identify with a particular group (in this case football fans)
Grow up.
August 25th 2012 @ 11:06am
whiskeymac said | August 25th 2012 @ 11:06am | Report comment
cheers
August 25th 2012 @ 9:36am
whiskeymac said | August 25th 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Indeed I see that having a dfferent idea, for some, is no idea if its not their idea, which in reality is a sad blinkered little idea. I am a football fan and have not time for the sensationalist media, but stop all this whingeing about police which is past ill informed trash talk. Some posters are sounding like whiney angry young men – I say keep your shirts on. It is quite hypocritical – posters get their knowledge from what – isolated issues at a stadium when there’s trouble (trouble the police are told to prevent and remove) and the media. Is this not the same issue(s) we all complain about in being caricatured by others? All I said was see it from a perspective of someone in charge of keeping the peace etc in understanding why unruly groupthink crowds are a percieved problem.
Because I havent seen the same as you or others doesnt make my observations illegitimate.
What are janckboots?
August 25th 2012 @ 9:52am
MV Dave said | August 25th 2012 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Your right Whiskeymac and I always look forward to reading your responses…however the issue of Sokkah hooliganism is one that has long created extremely opposing views not only in the wider sports fraternity but within football itself. We all want the game to prosper in Oz and it is certainly annoying when a handful of numb nuts spoil it for the rest of us and this isn’t helped by the seeming inability of certain police officers to deal with issues that arise in the appropriate manner and not escalate the situation. I take my hat off to the work done by MV, the MV fan groups and the police in Victoria to address and sort out the issues that had arisen here. There is no doubt policing a football games active supporters requires a different set of skills to dealing with the crowds at other codes who are usually seated for the game.
August 30th 2012 @ 5:55pm
amband said | August 30th 2012 @ 5:55pm | Report comment
especially where unity via ethnicity is concerned. Cops are up against that. Not easy
August 24th 2012 @ 3:00am
Johnno said | August 24th 2012 @ 3:00am | Report comment
-I suppose the commission known as the Police Integrity commission , police the police. They are an independent body from the police, but can make rulings on police integrity issues. I don’t know if they have the power to suspend police, but they certainly do have some power. Also police can arrest other police in an investigation, if a police officer beats a fan to death, they can be charged with murder, i would assume if they are found guilty of murder .
-But also with the police and crowd control, it is tough for police too. Pepper spray may seem tough, and even a taser, but what is the option if crowds misbehave, guns and real bullets. What is the next step beyond pepper sprays and tasers, it is real bullets.
-And if cops started using real bullets, i think there would defiantly be no more crowd violence but that is no the awnser, as innocent fans could get killed in bullets going astray.
August 24th 2012 @ 7:55am
whiskeymac said | August 24th 2012 @ 7:55am | Report comment
also the ombudsman.
bullets? no. options include riot police, dogs, water cannon. Police can also be charged with assault if their actions are beyond their mandate.
August 24th 2012 @ 7:53pm
Jonno said | August 24th 2012 @ 7:53pm | Report comment
In theory they can be charged. Almost never happens.
August 24th 2012 @ 4:39am
Bondy. said | August 24th 2012 @ 4:39am | Report comment
Ninety seven percent of people want to have a good time its the idiot three percent that spoil it for others and destroy the image of the sport in this country. What the media and the general public dont understand is that Australia is a true footballing nation their of the belief where not, but we infact are, I think most police/security in this country believe we’re not a footballing nation also because its fairly obvious most australian football supporters dont behave like people in Englands premiere league, theres the misunderstanding, we have more of a Eastern European culture in this country with football always has and always will,you go to some A League games you’d think your at a Hudjk split game or Partizan Belgrade a great atmosphere thats completely misunderstood in this country.
I acknowledge that complete d###head behaviour must be erradicted from the game,but also the level of enjoyment this sport brings will never be truly understood in Australia.
Well written Mike.
August 24th 2012 @ 7:54am
nordster said | August 24th 2012 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Good point on the eastern euro influence, we are more that than anglo in some respects as uncomfortable as that is for some. Especially Da Man and His Media
There just needs to be more tolerance of the occasional bit of ‘atmosphere’ and less of the heavy handedness i guess people come to expect from the state security apparatus. Its the real violence that needs policing, not the perceived violence.
August 24th 2012 @ 8:21am
Dillan said | August 24th 2012 @ 8:21am | Report comment
Australian Police generally exercise little people skills in a “macho” culture. Most of these incidents could be resolved with people skills, but instead they inflame the situation…
As for the manisteam media labels of “Soccer Hooligans” – I had to laugh…
August 25th 2012 @ 12:56am
DuffyV said | August 25th 2012 @ 12:56am | Report comment
It is not a “firecracker” by definition it is a low level “Explosive Device!!!!!!!”
Would you be offended if said fool let off such a device while you were flying from Sydney to Melbourne and was immediately swarmed by law enforcement with said collateral damage????????????????.
Any persons proved complicit in this act should be jailed for a lengthy term and they are very fortunate that they were not immediately executed by sniper fire, first response etc before they could fall back on their secondary plan.
Any wannabe terrorist right now would be looking at this example thinking “Is it really that easy to get gunpowder into an Australian stadium!!!!!!!” and “Will I only get pepper sprayed if it doesn’t go off properly?”
August 25th 2012 @ 6:36pm
Kim Hart said | August 25th 2012 @ 6:36pm | Report comment
They generally want to commit an act of violence where and when it will get the most attention – I’m thinking they’d aim higher than a b grade football match.
August 30th 2012 @ 5:56pm
amband said | August 30th 2012 @ 5:56pm | Report comment
how can they inflame the situation?
August 24th 2012 @ 8:26am
josh said | August 24th 2012 @ 8:26am | Report comment
Why soccer fans feel the need to take flares to a game? This is the dumbest element to soccer, and know can give asensible answer as to why they take them. Ban them all, including the clubs.
August 24th 2012 @ 8:50am
Titus said | August 24th 2012 @ 8:50am | Report comment
josh-the people who lit the flares have been banned for 5 years, the rest of the crowd went to the games without flares.
August 24th 2012 @ 9:01am
josh said | August 24th 2012 @ 9:01am | Report comment
The problem, it won’t stop other losers taking them. I release it’s a small percentage. but the problem will still persist. it doesn’t happen at the AFL, NRL or cricket. It some lame attachment to follow the drop kicks in Europe.
August 24th 2012 @ 9:09am
nordster said | August 24th 2012 @ 9:09am | Report comment
Some folks dont want the “sit down and shush” eggball experience …that doesnt make us ‘unaustralian’ btw just ‘unstrayan’
Flares are made out to be a bigger problem than they are as they neatly fit the hool narrative some media want to peddle.
August 24th 2012 @ 4:42pm
mahony said | August 24th 2012 @ 4:42pm | Report comment
Actualy – flares were a problem in rugby league a while back – but thats not the point. We don’t live in a monoculture (as much as some of you would like it). We are not AFL. We are not Cricket. We are not rugby of any type – we are football. Our culture, our traditions and or history are ours – not yours to judge or denigrate. I want the idiot minority out of our game as much as I want the narrow minded monoirty out of this website.
August 24th 2012 @ 6:07pm
Brick Tamlin of the Pants Party said | August 24th 2012 @ 6:07pm | Report comment
Its an extremely small percentage josh,theres a much larger percentage of losers who like to punch on and yell out to girls to show them their tits at the sport we share the summer with,cricket.
August 30th 2012 @ 5:57pm
amband said | August 30th 2012 @ 5:57pm | Report comment
it is an ethnic problem in football
August 24th 2012 @ 9:28am
Peter Wilson said | August 24th 2012 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Josh,
it wasn’t a flare – there were no flares at the game mate.
It was a firecracker that went bang, no one was hurt or even cared.
The police started the trouble when 20 of them went after the guy who lit it.
August 24th 2012 @ 3:25pm
Australian Rules said | August 24th 2012 @ 3:25pm | Report comment
“The police started the trouble when 20 of them went after the guy who lit it.”
Pete love your work, but do u realise how silly that statement reads?
August 24th 2012 @ 4:20pm
Peter Wilson said | August 24th 2012 @ 4:20pm | Report comment
Please elaborate Aussie Rules.
I was at the game.
The crowd and the United fans didn’t react when the cracker was thrown, most people laughed. It didn’t start a brawl – as reported by Mr Smithies, who rushed out of the ground after his photographers got a few nice pics for the DT.
A few minutes later, the security people called over a bunch of police and started pointing at a guy at the back of the stand. Then a whole bunch of police with batons and capsicum spray at the ready charged the fans and started “the brawl”. Their behaviour was way over the top and they even trampled on people trying to get out of the way – but what can you do to get out of the way in such a packed stand.
There was no other “trouble” the whole night.
Anyway, made a nice front page story for the DT, but I must admit I liked the DT front page the other day with Jennifer Hawkins in a skimpy floral bikini a lot better.
August 24th 2012 @ 8:02pm
Sky Blue Ram said | August 24th 2012 @ 8:02pm | Report comment
Peter.
Well quite clearly the bloke that lit it started it otherwise the police wouldn’t have moved in. You said it yourself.
August 24th 2012 @ 11:32pm
Peter Wilson said | August 24th 2012 @ 11:32pm | Report comment
No. You people still don’t get it.
The firecracker didn’t start a brawl. Rival fans didn’t start fighting because of a firecracker. Nothing happened in the crowd after the firecracker went off.
The trouble started minutes later when the police charged into the crowd with batons and capsicum spray and trampled over innocent fans.
Its wrong to say there wouldn’t have been any trouble if the firecracker didn’t go off, because there was no trouble when the firecracker went off.
The police didn’t have to charge through the crowd like that. There was no fighting between the fans. The only fighting was between the police and the fans.
August 25th 2012 @ 1:38am
Kim Hart said | August 25th 2012 @ 1:38am | Report comment
Why did they start fighting then?
August 25th 2012 @ 1:39am
Kim Hart said | August 25th 2012 @ 1:39am | Report comment
Oh and you know firecrackers are illegal right?
August 25th 2012 @ 8:25am
Punter said | August 25th 2012 @ 8:25am | Report comment
Kim, there was no fighting among fans, get that right. There was a firecracker set off (bad, inexcusable, zero Tolerance), the police rush in & there was pushing & shoving. Ask any policeman, when alcohol is involved, intimidation of the police is strong, again wrong thing to do, but this is more an issue of society than just football.
August 25th 2012 @ 10:41am
BigAl said | August 25th 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Hey Pete ! . . .A more serious incident I agree, but may give you a bit of an insight into why police react the way they do when something goes “BANG!!!” at a public event !
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/two-hurt-by-st-kilda-festival-soda-bombs-court-hears-20120816-24ahh.html
I would imagine that what is going through their trained minds is: what could happen next ?; what is the best course of action to take – right now – to ensure that it doesn’t happen
August 25th 2012 @ 12:56pm
Sky Blue Ram said | August 25th 2012 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
That’s true but the police went in because the firecracker was lit, if it hadn’t been lit they wouldn’t have gone in.
The start of the chain of events was the firecracker, take responsibility. If you are seen to be setting of firecrackers at a football match then the police are going to want at least a word with you, if you don’t want the police to come after you (being inappropriate or not) don’t light the firecracker.
August 30th 2012 @ 5:58pm
amband said | August 30th 2012 @ 5:58pm | Report comment
no the police have a duty to chase the bloke. The bloke they were chasing started it
August 25th 2012 @ 1:54am
DuffyV said | August 25th 2012 @ 1:54am | Report comment
And you are a Roar “PRO” Ha Ha Ha!!!
It was an explosive device in a crowded environment much like the Bali night club bombing except they put more sauce in theirs.
Hey but lets encourage it until someone does it proper………you fool!!!!!
August 25th 2012 @ 2:03am
DuffyV said | August 25th 2012 @ 2:03am | Report comment
We are all really interested in your response Peter Wilson………….
August 25th 2012 @ 10:50pm
Peter Wilson said | August 25th 2012 @ 10:50pm | Report comment
Do you work for the DT.
Comparing a firecracker going off at a friendly football game where NO ONE was hurt, to the Bali Bombings where hundreds of people were KILLED is WAY WAY OVER THE TOP.
But that’s OK hey, they were only wogs at a soccer game – not like they really matter anyway, right.
Like talking to brick wall.
Say what you like, print what you like, but come the start of the A-League season I’ll be attending games as I always have, take my kids along and have a good time.
August 24th 2012 @ 9:47am
Kasey said | August 24th 2012 @ 9:47am | Report comment
Some but by no means all football fans believe that flares add to the atmosphere.
These pro-flare types don’t care that flares are not only illegal in stadia, but that they provide easy copy for the anti-sockah brigade in Da Man’s media.
They seem to be of the opinion (kind of like those critical mass idiots) that if they persist with their actions, once enough flares have been ripped, Australia will just magically ‘wake up’ one morning and accept that flares are a part of the ‘football experience’
In the meantime, the harm they cause to the game’s image is incalculable huge. IMO There was a direct link between the flare and rock incident at c-town last week and the deployment of the Riot squat at Edensor pk this Wednesday.
Remove the incident at c-town and I reckon we would have seen the usual police presence for a HAL pre-season game.i.e. stuff all. just a couple of seccos(as required under OHS when crowds gather).
August 24th 2012 @ 10:01am
Punter said | August 24th 2012 @ 10:01am | Report comment
Ban all the clubs that makes sense!!!!
August 24th 2012 @ 8:32am
sledgeross said | August 24th 2012 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Simple fact is if one idiot doesnt throw a firecracker then there is no story………
August 24th 2012 @ 9:08am
AGO74 said | August 24th 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
hard to argue with that.
August 24th 2012 @ 4:19pm
Rezplzk said | August 24th 2012 @ 4:19pm | Report comment
It’s a firecracker. Wake up. If you park illegally should you be bashed by police? Crime=/= punishment.
August 24th 2012 @ 4:31pm
Titus said | August 24th 2012 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
No, but what if you park illegally and then resist arrest with the help of 50 of your mates……..or are you suggesting that the cops should realise that you aren’t hurting anyone, just having a bit of fun, and let it slide?
August 24th 2012 @ 7:57pm
Jonno said | August 24th 2012 @ 7:57pm | Report comment
If it is a very minor rule infringement, yeah – let it slide.
August 24th 2012 @ 9:36pm
DuffyV said | August 24th 2012 @ 9:36pm | Report comment
It is not a “firecracker” by definition it is a low level “Explosive Device!!!!!!!”
Would you be offended if said fool let off such a device while you were flying from Sydney to Melbourne and was immediately swarmed by law enforcement with said collateral damage????????????????.
Any persons proved complicit in this act should be jailed for a lengthy term and they are very fortunate that they were not immediately executed by sniper fire, first response etc before they could fall back on their secondary plan.
Any wannabe terrorist right now would be looking at this example thinking “Is it really that easy to get gunpowder into an Australian stadium!!!!!!!” and “Will I only get pepper sprayed if it doesn’t go off properly?”
August 30th 2012 @ 6:01pm
amband said | August 30th 2012 @ 6:01pm | Report comment
exactly
August 24th 2012 @ 8:41am
AGO74 said | August 24th 2012 @ 8:41am | Report comment
Mike – I reckon if you ask the President of Sydney United what he thinks of the police response, he’d be comfortable with it. He wants those idiots out of his club and the game for good – as do we all. Google today’s SMH and Mike Cockerill’s article for an insight into what the President of Sydney United thinks. Just rememgber that these Sydney United “fans” have form Mike so to be honest, if the police did use force I don’t blame them. Anyway, I’m not too sure how you can comment on the response of the police when a) you weren’t there and b) there has been not TV footage to view.
Personally, I’ve felt more police presence at Bulldogs games and not at Sydney FC games, though was back in the days when Bulldogss had their own lunatic fringe.
My view on A-Lague is that it is the security mobs who cause more problems than police at A-League games (or any other sport for that matter). Security in my experience (not personal – just in what I’ve witnessed!) is that people can get kicked out of sporting events for virtually no reason.
August 24th 2012 @ 10:25am
whiskeymac said | August 24th 2012 @ 10:25am | Report comment
interesting article – the worst part being the positives completely overlooked by these events.
part of it saying :-
“‘We’ll be working with Football NSW and other organisations to produce heavier penalties, and I’m talking about bans or suspensions. They’ll need to show good reason why they shouldn’t be suspended from state competitions, and then there’s FFA-sanctioned matches like the proposed FFA Cup, or these type of pre-season friendlies.
”If they [clubs] don’t come down extraordinarily hard, if they don’t have a genuine zero-tolerance policy, then there’ll be consequences.”
Right now, one arrest has been made, but there may be more to come following the disturbance at the friendly game against A-League newcomers Western Sydney Wanderers, during which a firecracker exploded and pepper spray was used by riot police. More importantly, those who don’t feel the long arm of the law will not escape. About 15 to 16 fans are in the frame, and once they are identified – which Krslovic is sure they will be – they will be banned for life from attending games, and from the social club adjacent to the ground.
Even more, if Krslovic’s intuition is right and some of the group are also players, he will ask Football NSW to revoke their registrations. Now that hurts.
”We’re going to find them, and we’re going to get rid of them,” Krslovic says. ”They’re a blight on the community, and we’re going to root them out. Our club is saddened and bewildered that a select few would hijack this event for their own personal agenda. We don’t condone it. They’re not real fans, and they’re not our members. We’ve had a gutful.”
Krslovic is especially frustrated that the disturbance took the focus away from what was a red-letter night for the club on the field. ”We gave a 15-year-old [Chris Zuvela] and a 16-year-old [Spiros Agathos] their debuts, we beat an A-League team [2-1], and we got 3234 people to the ground on a midweek night in winter, and all that gets ignored.”
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/football/united-stand-against-thug-minority-20120823-24p25.html#ixzz24Q0vt5xu
August 24th 2012 @ 4:29pm
Peter Wilson said | August 24th 2012 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
Agree and the other positive is that they were a very small minority, so it won’t take long to find them and weed them out.
Its not like 99% of the crowd started brawling – it was harmless till the police got going.
And the other thing is that none of those arrested and charged are members of an A-League supporters group.
August 24th 2012 @ 8:07pm
philipcoates said | August 24th 2012 @ 8:07pm | Report comment
“none … are members of an A-League supporters group’ …. a bit presumptive Peter since the culprits have yet to be identified and, even when they are identified, the A-League supporter groups dont have a membership list to run the names past. I hope you are right, but its a stretch to state it like it is a known truth.
August 24th 2012 @ 11:37pm
Peter Wilson said | August 24th 2012 @ 11:37pm | Report comment
The culprits at the Campbelltown game have been identified and charged to appear in court and they didn’t belong to WSW or SFC fan groups.
Those arrested at Edensor Park were Sydney United fans provoked by the police. No WSW or SFC fans have been arrested. The WSW fans were on their best behaviour and did not retaliate when a cracker was thrown in their direction.
There is no evidence to suggest that any of the “thugs” were from an A-League club supporter group.
August 25th 2012 @ 2:34am
DuffyV said | August 25th 2012 @ 2:34am | Report comment
Peter,
What is the worse case scenario from an under resourced law enforcement point of view?
Some sneaky alcohol, a bad attitude, a knife, or an explosive device?????
Who actually cares who the person/fan was other than a very swift response was made and the perpetrator/s are going to actually spend some serious time in jail. (Probably not unless they have angular beards.)
You are so determined now to explain that it was a random, unrelated person to the cost of your remaining credibility.
Anything other than five years of hard time will just encourage seriously bad elements and I for one will ensure none of my three children attend any more crowded events going forward.
August 24th 2012 @ 8:56am
daniel said | August 24th 2012 @ 8:56am | Report comment
I have found the police at stadiums (Perth) friendly and very well trained. The same cannot always be said for security guards, who are often steroid pumped lumps of testosterone and as volatile as an agrieved NSL supporter
Maybe it is different over here in the west where ethnicity isnt such an issue, but the police are mostly friendly bystanders at games.
In regards to the media, well after 17 years of following this game I’ve learnt not to expect anything less.
On flares, I think that whilst they can add colour and atmosphere to a game, they become dangerous when they finish and you’ve got nowhere to dispose the burning hot used cannister. Whilst the game would definitely be better off without them, its also not the end of the world if one is used. Security needs to take a calm and responsible approach to collect the flare, rather than bulldozing an entire group of fans, risking severe burns or damaged property.
August 24th 2012 @ 9:11am
Fussball ist unser leben said | August 24th 2012 @ 9:11am | Report comment
Been to 90% of MVFC home matches in 7yrs and, whilst I’ve read anecdotal evidence of police heavy-handed tactics, neither I – nor any of the people who attend football matches with me – has ever seen any untoward conduct by police … or, for that matter, untoward conduct by MVFC fans.
I’ve found the police to be friendly & willing to have a laugh; just as I’ve found MVFC fans to be much more “socially inclusive” than fans at AFL or cricket.
Speaking to my mates at VicPol, police certainly have a lower tolerance threshold when they’re dealing with “group think” and the nature of football support is based on group-think.
When you think about the logisitcs – there is, perhaps, 1 police officer present at events for every 100 patrons. Now, if anti-social incidents are confined to a few isolated individuals, the police have no problem controlling the situation. However, if a group turns on the police, the police are in trouble – there is no way 100 police can control 200, 1000 or 10,000 fans. So, you can well understand why police will step in at the earliest sign of “group trouble” or incidents that may incite “group trouble”.
Over the past 12 months MVFC & VicPol have held regular meetings to share ideas & listen to each other. MVFC has understood VicPol’s concerns & VicPol now has a better understanding of football fan culture and clear boundaries in behaviour have been established.
Last season, I don’t recall a single episode of complaint – from either VicPol or MVFC fans.
August 24th 2012 @ 11:06am
Roger said | August 24th 2012 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Fuss, I don’t agree that police haven’t been heavy handed on active fans at MV games in the past – because they have, and I have seen it (their crimes being taking off their shirts and standing on their seats – zomg – sokkah riot!!).
However, I very much echo the fact that the security presence has come leaps and bounds at MV games, with last season being fantastic. There is a much better appreciation for the fan culture by the police, and the fans have been empowered to regulate themselves. The upshot being that almost all unruly behaviour is dealt by a fellow fan – not be heavy-handed police who don’t even understand the situation. I don’t think I saw the security or the police step in once.
August 24th 2012 @ 11:44am
Lucan said | August 24th 2012 @ 11:44am | Report comment
I’ve witnessed one occasion where batons were used by VICPOL at MV games at Olympic Park. That’s a scary sight.
And let’s not forget the capsicum spraying of randoms at the first Docklands derby between MV v SydFC in response to a plastic bottle being thrown. This particular event lit up talkback radio at the time and made the following day’s newspapers.
From all reports, these issues have subsided, which is great for all involved, but let’s not deny or re-write history.
Have to also agree with our friend from Perth that the private security are much worse than the Police. Even back in the NSL days we’d have VicPol shaking their heads watching the private security mobs make a mess of most interactions. The Police were usually pretty laid back and relaxed not adding fuel to any potential fires.
August 24th 2012 @ 2:03pm
Fussball ist unser leben said | August 24th 2012 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
Roger, I accept there’s been an issue with the active fan areas in the past.
But, if police have no issue with 90% of the fans & only have an issue with active fans, it leads me to believe it’s not a general anti-football attitude in the VicPol but a misunderstanding of certain behaviour that is part of the active fans’ match-day choreography?
August 24th 2012 @ 2:18pm
Roger said | August 24th 2012 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
Exactly right. 1000 fans acting as one scares police here in Australia. To put it simply, they’re not used to it, and it scares them. This is why the dialogue between the active support groups and police have been so successful , because things are explained, and there is understanding that singing and celebrating as one, does not mean the fans are about to riot.
August 24th 2012 @ 5:43pm
Bondy. said | August 24th 2012 @ 5:43pm | Report comment
I tend to agree with Roger the Police do get frightened at some games because culturaly they’ve sat and watched AFL.and NRL where its incredibly sedate and passive at those sports IMO, where they havent put people on who understand the game and culture that goes with it ,they dont understand that we like to be togehter as supporters where at other sports you just sit wherever things such as that matter to football people but are just simply misunderstood by the wider community ,didnt some Bris Roar supporters get thrown of a bus or train last year for singing I think it was.
August 24th 2012 @ 9:40am
Mattwa said | August 24th 2012 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Of course! It must be the police’s fault. Seriously?