Do 104 hours of televised NRL come free?
By Joe Frost, 27 Aug 2012 Joe Frost is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- David Gyngell, John Grant, NRL, Rugby League
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There was an inexplicable comment made by John Grant during Tuesday’s media conference, at which the NRL announced they had signed a new television deal worth in excess of $1 billion.
“The proof of this deal is there’s not a lot of value placed on that ninth game,” Grant said, to which David Gyngell nodded his head in agreement.
2015 and 2016 have been the two years touted as when the competition was most likely to expand. Conservatively, let’s say it was going to happen in 2016.
That would mean an extra game every round for two seasons – equating in 52 extra games over two years, assuming two extra teams doesn’t affect the current finals system of eight sides.
With most games able to be stretched out to take up two hours when televised, that’s 104 hours of television – presumably on a Saturday or Sunday evening.
I don’t know what that equates to in terms of dollars and cents for the NRL. But to say “there’s not a lot of value” in 104 hours of televised content doesn’t sound right, especially with mobile content yet to be settled, meaning 104 more hours of content in those negotiations as well.
While David Gyngell nodded along in agreement to John Grant’s assessment, he had just parted with around half a billion dollars. He was hardly about to lean in to his mic and say, “actually, you probably could have got another couple of hundred mil’ out of this deal if you’d guaranteed another game every round.”
So where did Grant’s assessment come from?
Is it possible he simply saw that, compared to the AFL and their $1.25 billion deal, his deal was already better? Though, the AFL are getting more in dollars and cents, with shorter games and less games per round, pound-for-pound, the NRL’s is a better deal.
But with an extra 104 hours to negotiate with, it’s hard to see how the deal couldn’t have been better still.
Particularly when one considers the two new NRL franchises are likely to go to Perth and Queensland. Perth opens up a whole new timezone in which to televise a local team and, given Channel Nine’s love affair with broadcasting Broncos games on a Friday night, an extra Queensland team – probably based in Brisbane – was hardly going to be a dud in the ratings.
Then there’s the long-term vision associated with having these extra teams. The advantages of having a national footprint may not be apparent immediately, and perhaps John Grant’s assessment that the two extra teams were not going to provide a great deal of value at this deal was correct.
However when 2017 rolls around, two extra teams, relatively settled and attracting good crowds and ratings, are hardly going to see the next TV deal suffer.
David Gyngell caused a stir a while ago, saying if the NRL wanted to make more money they needed to provide more opportunities for advertising – his suggestion was by creating more breaks in the game.
But if Mr Gyngell wants more opportunities for advertising, there are 104 hours which are going to go begging over the back end of this TV deal.
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August 27th 2012 @ 7:12am
p.Tah said | August 27th 2012 @ 7:12am | Report comment
I watched Kerry Packers Howzat last night. Incredibly interesting, but Channel Nine completely stuffed it by putting blocks of 8 adverts on about every 10 minutes. The show was disjointed and a challenge to follow because of it. If Gyngell’s plan is to put in more adverts, heaven help Rugby League on FTA. Thankfully I have Foxtel.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:28am
turbodewd said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:28am | Report comment
I actually look forward to a couple of ad breaks per half. It would let ppl take a whiz, grab a drink/food, u name it. Admittedly I have a HTPC so I can do that already :^)
But I do think NRL games are far too short.
August 27th 2012 @ 1:08pm
Australian Rules said | August 27th 2012 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
Agree that the number of ads in Howzat! was appalling – almost unwatchable as a result.
August 27th 2012 @ 1:10pm
Brian Watson said | August 27th 2012 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
There were so many ads last night I switched it off!
August 27th 2012 @ 8:07am
mushi said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:07am | Report comment
First the teams only play 24 games so it is 96 hours.
His says little value not zero.
Another game sold to nine goes in which time slot? 11:30 on Friday? Delayed post the news on Sunday? Monday football which they’ve never really wanted, Saturday that they’ve never wanted?
I think what they are indicating is they have the slots they want already covered off so any additional games are looking very much at second and third tier rating time slots.
Then you have the production costs etc that go into a game it probably leaves limited value a network to purchase those hours unless forced to. They certainly won’t result in bidding up the contract.
Then remember for the deal to be “even better” the increase in the deal needs to cover off the increased costs to add those teams in terms of grants/cap which will be in the 12-14m per annum range for two teams (otherwise you’ve added more expense than revenue).
This means an increase of 6% to 7% with the bottom 11%.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:42am
Ronald M said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:42am | Report comment
I was thinking something similar plus I would add that 9 don’t really want NRL in WA. They have resisted like mad in Victoria against some pretty heavy critisism from fans and the NRL (reputedly). It is partly this fact that makes this deal all the more rotten because if you think you are gonna get national coverage you can think again. However, that said, why can a ninth game not be sold separately to a channel that wants it. If 7/10 wants a toe in the door as we have been led to believe then why not hang this out there ? If the NRL got 45 mil for that ninth game from 2015 then they would have achieved the same per game as this deal. $45 mil does not seem like a lot for a toe in the door.
If Expansion truely is off the table and we are still serious about National coverage then this raises the whole force Cronulla to Perth scenario again.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:43am
turbodewd said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:43am | Report comment
Cronulla to Perth would be a win-win. Perth get a team and when the Perth Sharks play in Sydney they would get a decent away crowd each time…one would hope!
The ARLC should dangle a carrot in front of them from their new warchest.
Keeping the NRL at 16 teams would be ideal as well because there arent enough halfbacks nor coaches to go around at the moment. I mean Laurie Daley as SOO coach?! Zeus save us!
August 27th 2012 @ 10:30am
Ronald M said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:30am | Report comment
Carrots have been dangled before, it needs a bit of compulsion now I fear.
Don’t be fooled by that “not enough talent” arguement. Its a bit like the chicken and the egg. If the opportunity is there then talent will emerge, if the opportuinty isn’t there they will go be builders or leave for the UK.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:08am
turbodewd said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Actually, considering there will be more money about, you would be right, the talent argument doesnt hold. However it would be wiser in general to spread your money over 16 teams instead of 18. Now if we can just encourage Cronulla or Penrith to ship up and away to Perth and, say, Adelaide, that would rock.
August 27th 2012 @ 2:29pm
Bring Back the Bears said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
I agree relocation will be required now or in the near future for clubs to survive.
However if the NRL genuinely want Sydney clubs to relocate and will reward clubs for doing so they have a funny way of showing it. If I was a current NRL club I would be hesitant to relocate as well considering the two clubs that have moved in the past to secure their future have both been booted out of the comp (Bears to CC and Magpies to Campelltown).
September 3rd 2012 @ 8:12pm
Haz said | September 3rd 2012 @ 8:12pm | Report comment
Maybe delaying expansion is actually a better strategic move by the ARLC.
While the $90m upfront payment to the ARLC provides it a war-chest, it also depletes Nine’s own war-chest. To be realistic, there’s only so much money Nine/FoxSports could throw at the ARLC in one go without bankrupting itself.
The current competition as it stands is a safe bet, and is a safe money-earner for Nine. Expansion, however, is not. It is not just the ARLC who would be wearing a risk of bankrolling a potentially uncompetitive team for the first 2-5 years of life; but the networks who would have to risk airing dud football games.
Nine/FoxSports will be more wiling to risk that in a few years once they’ve recouped some of their initial outlay on rugby league, but that just complicates the process of bidding right now.
September 3rd 2012 @ 9:02pm
Bearfax said | September 3rd 2012 @ 9:02pm | Report comment
So tell me Haz. What’s it been like working as Nine and Foxtels Public Relations officer. Good pay eh? I hear they serve a mean steak and veg at lunch time.
Just my humour Haz. Your point is actually quite valid, though I suspect no matter what extra teams they put in, the audience would increase, because they would be servicing new areas and stimulating interest. Further, Rugby League is a big money earner for both sites and that is why they’ll pay such big bucks for the sport.
Look I think they tried to get out of it as cheaply as they could especially after other networks had been prepared to spend a quarter of a billion more for the Aussie Rules, which has more teams mind you. But there in lies the difference in the skill of the Aussie Rules negotiators and the League negotiators, and why the League is so anxious to get the Aussie Rules bloke who had been involved in the Rules negotiations.
August 27th 2012 @ 6:01pm
piesman2011 said | August 27th 2012 @ 6:01pm | Report comment
I made a mistake
August 27th 2012 @ 9:01am
Bring Back the Bears said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:01am | Report comment
Without trying to sound too much like a conspiracy theorist, the CC Bears has without a doubt been the most advanced bid for the last few years (same with the 2008 expansion). Any chance the ARLC is intentionally slowing down the call to bids so that other markets can catch up?
August 27th 2012 @ 9:45am
turbodewd said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:45am | Report comment
Bears fans must be realistic and push for the Bears franchise to be Brisbane 2 or Perth or NZ. The bonus about this concept is that when they visit Sydney they’d have an away following.
Little Gosford just aint gonna happen. Too small. Too close to Sydney. We already have 11 teams in NSW/ACT, Qld has 3.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:09am
Bearfax said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:09am | Report comment
Despite my title, I’m not a Bears supporter (Sea Eagles for ever). But I agree with BBTB and I dispute the claims against the team being added. The Central Coast is a separate entity, virtually a city between Newcastle and Sydney. And because there is only now one northern Sydney club, there are a huge number of potential fans being ignored between Sydney and Newcastle, a major population area.
They have a good stadium, supported by a popular club, they have consistently had crowds comparable if not superior to city based grounds when games are played there. They have an infrastructure and financing that could maintain it. I’d get rid of the 2GB boss’ influence which is a negative. But otherwise I think the proposal is a good one. For me I would go along with Perth and a second Brisbane side, but then bring in Central Coast, Port Moresby and later Central Queensland and a second NZ side…..hey but I’m greedy. Mind you back in 1995-6 there were 22 teams in the comp, and no one was complaining.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:32pm
turbodewd said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
Bearfax,
the best hope of the Gosfordians of getting a team is to have the Panthers or Sharks move. It would be incredibly selfish of NSWelshmen to think they deserve yet another team ahead of Qld, NZ and WA. Hell, Id even give Adelaide a team ahead of Gosford.
Have you been outside of NSW?! You do realise that the world extends beyond Sydaney town?
August 27th 2012 @ 12:49pm
Bring Back the Bears said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
While I agree with you to a certain extent turbodewd. The issue that I have is that the call the bids at the moment is based on the assumption that the team with the best bid will get the spot.
However it seems like the ARLC and David Gallop before them keep dangling the expansion carrot in front of the Bears and then shift the goal posts every time they rise to the challenge (sorry for the bizarre use of mismatching analogies).
If the ARLC don’t want another team in NSW then they should say so now (or 10 years ago). However the CC has always been deemed as an ideal expansion area and if the Bears have a better and more sustainable bid than Brisbane 2 for example, then why shouldn’t they get the spot?
My only concern is that if NSW do get another team, the NSWRL and QRL will need to set aside their differences and will need to allow NSW NRL teams to use QCup teams as their feeder clubs (as Manly tried to do previously with the Sunshine Coast Sea Eagles).
August 27th 2012 @ 1:01pm
planko said | August 27th 2012 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
The irony is that the most recent events has hurt their bid for a place I believe. If the NRL had wanted to expand and let new sides in up until now CC Bears was a dead cert. They would be fully self funding and quite possibly they would have paid to join They have juniors and several leagues clubs to fund their cause should they fall short. I dont think any others will be able to do it without substantial NRL help. The difference is now they can afford to help.
August 27th 2012 @ 2:02pm
Bearfax said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
Turbodewd.
You must make sure that you read the entire entry before you start accusing someone of something they havent done. Read my item. You will see that I am supporting ONE new NSW side, a NZ side a NG side, a W.A. side and wait for it…two Queensland sides. Now do the Maths in case I got it wrong. That’s five non NSW sides and one NSW side. And I work on the question of affordability and making sure league covers as much territory as possible to not be overthrown by another code. Look at the northern area of Sydney and the central coast. A sporting wasteland waiting to be grabbed by another code. Rugby Union has five Shute Shield (first grade) teams in the northern Sydney region alone out of a Sydney comp of ten tams…League has one out of nine suburban sides in the comp.
And to make matters worse the League gave undertakings to North Sydney to move up to the Central Coast and relocate there. they spent a large amount of money to do just that. Then the Super league war broke out just as they were about to move and they were left penniless to compete and the League dishonourably firstly forced them into an inequitable arrangement wth the Eagles and then told them they weren’t wanted. Penrith or Cronulla to Gosford? That’s exactly what Norths were promised before they were kicked out..
August 27th 2012 @ 2:09pm
turbodewd said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
That is a lot of teams…you spreading the cash thinly across so many.
PNG wont happen in our lifetime, I can guarantee that. How will they fund themselves? Take a slice of the AU/NZ advertising dollar but contribute zero? And how many Aussie wags would want to live in the chaotic Port Moresby?
August 27th 2012 @ 3:56pm
Bearfax said | August 27th 2012 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
Turbodewd, Turbodewd. Must I again remind you that there was a very rich recent proposal made by a consortium to get PNG into the comp. And they wouldnt have to worry about crowds. If they can get a stadium big enough, they could easily eclipse Brisbane at the height of its popularity. They love the game…its their national sport. And they are the most likely next country to eventually have a major test side. You forget their population is bigger than NZ, and rugby league is a second tier code there. I should point out that PNG will probably be going gangbusters economically in the next few years with the Chinese mining etc beginning to take hold. Money is pouring in. They may not be the poor cousins that long.
Of course you may be telling the truth because you’re over 90 and on the wane. Is that it Turbodewd.?
August 27th 2012 @ 3:59pm
Pot Stirrer said | August 27th 2012 @ 3:59pm | Report comment
UMM, I dont know much about PNG, but isnt 90% of thier popu;lation un-employed ?
August 27th 2012 @ 4:23pm
Bring Back the Bears said | August 27th 2012 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
In terms of a PNG team I’m afraid I’m going to have to agree with turbodewd on this one. PNG won’t have a team any time soon due to the following factors:
Travel costs – I can’t see PNG getting admitted unless they were lumped with a portion of the travel of other teams and that didn’t work out too well when the WA Reds had a similar arrangement.
Player recruitment – PNG does have a great pool of talent but I can just see richer clubs picking off their best players with no one going the other way. Location is a big deciding factor for players and I can’t see many superstar players wanting to go live in Port Moresby.
Commercial interests – while a PNG team may get some good local funding/sponsorship, this team would offer nothing to the Aus/NZ networks.
In terms of expansion, the issue with the NRL is that 16 teams is a great number for a comp, however there should be two more teams in QLD, a team on the CC and a second NZ side. Perth would be a great market to expand to however the issue is that they will end up being like Melbourne, having to get their juniors and reserve grade players from NSW/QLD.
I don’t want to see any clubs fold (I know first hand that it sucks) but Sydney won’t be able to sustain so many clubs long term. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out over the next 10 years.
August 27th 2012 @ 5:05pm
Australian Rules said | August 27th 2012 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
Bearfax
Ever been to PNG?
It’s a 3rd world country where most people live at subsistence levels. The infrastructure, government and sanitary conditions are basic to say the least. To give you an idea, Port Moresby is not linked by road or rail to any other part of the country.
They may like the sport, but I’m certain the ARLC would not be seriously entertaining a PNG bid.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:35pm
Bearfax said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:35pm | Report comment
Noted your points guys. But firstly, Perth probably has a better junior program than Melbourne, given the number of ex pat NSW and South African people living there. And the mining boom has made them the richest state with plenty of cash to throw around for sports. I understand they have a reasonable RL comp developing there.
Yes PNG is still quite backward, but there is a lot of money being poured in there over recent years from China. And its no further than Perth from the Easter states. The player strength is enormous…these guys just need some good coaching. I heard money was through a consortium of businesses willing to foot the initial bill. that have already made an application to the national league…and I understand its a better proposal than some of the others being made. Facilities will take time I guess and the game is likely to be seen only here and in Port Moresby. But with the money going in there at present, dont be surprised in a couple of years if PNG starts to modernise real quick.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:18am
Noel Rigney-Johnson said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:18am | Report comment
Of course the CC Nears should be back into the NRL, as they should have never been forced out. The forced omssion was in my humble opinion the result of the failed merger with Manly euphamistically trading as the ‘Northern Eagles’ as this was day one a complete disaster.
And it would be beholden for me to ask John Singleton to seriously reconsider his position and do everything possible to ensure that the growing fand base seeking the CC Bears back is not denied them!!!!!!!
August 27th 2012 @ 12:34pm
turbodewd said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
Alas if we put yet another NSW team in the league then the NswRL is truly the NSWRL.
Norths should be resurrected as the South Brisbane Bears and affiliate with the Seagulls club which Im told is owned by Norths.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:59pm
Bring Back the Bears said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
I do like the idea of bringing back franchises with history. I’ve seen a lot of people on message boards calling for the ‘Brisbane Brothers’, I don’t know why they would use the Bombers when there is so much history Bris 2 could have tapped into.
Also the QRL and NSWRL have a lot of franchise names that are shared across the two. Why not bring in franchises that are used by both to increase marketshare and supporter base e.g. the Magpies, Bears and Jets. Magpies and Jets could easily be used for the Western Corridor bid as they are already used by Souths-Logan and Ipswich in the QCup.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:07am
B.A Sports said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
While we are doing maths…..
Over the 5 years of this deal every team will play 120 games (excluding finals).
With Channel Nine essentially doing the draw, lets look at two teams as a sample of the inequality of what we can expect;
The Raiders, a team who in all liklihood will be in the race for positions 5-8 most seasons; How many of their 120 games will be shown live on FTA? I will set the over/under at 3.
And then compare that with say the Wests Tigers, who have made made the Finals on two fewer occaisions than the Raiders in the last 10 years, and how many live FTA games will they get? – I will set the over/under at 30….
August 27th 2012 @ 9:47am
turbodewd said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:47am | Report comment
Channel 9 wants the Raiders dead. There’s no other way of explaining it. Our crowds are at 12 year lows. Canberra-Qbyn is the 8th biggest urban area in Australia. CHannel 9 are dead keen for rugby or AFL to take this market.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:06am
Matt_S said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Channekl Nine is still and always will be full of AFL loving lackies.
Example, The Sunrise program, and this illustrates 7′s better management, alternates between league & AFL on their sports news. i actually watch this program, not because of AFL, but because I understand 7 have a product to promote but they still have NRL as a lead sports item every 2nd half hour during the Sunrise program.
Nine? Well their Today program in the two times watching last week/on weekend led with AFL each time. On their FB page I “have put 9 on notice, i will give them a second chance, but so far they are failing. Ah back to non -9 programs other than AFL. Added, Wide World of Sports do not even have the decency to advertise that NRL is on GEM for other states. Turn on 7mate, 7two heaps of AFL promotion and directing punters to digital TV for AFL fix in Northern markets.
i dont know why the love affair with AFL but hording league rights with 9? Nine is a fragmented organisation.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:20am
Hamish said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:20am | Report comment
Matt-S.
I’m impressed you have the time to watch both breakfast shows apparently at the same time or are you really odd and tape one. Its one example and a small sample at that. The reason 7 advertises the AFL was because it was in the contra deal – next year Nine will have to lift their game on advertising as they have done a contra deal as well. Nine struggles in the AFL states so has to present the picture it is not an NRL station so perhaps thats why AFL goes first or because the number that follow the game is apparently higher. Others have suggested selling the ninth game to others but Nine and Fox wouldnt have signed a deal that lets another in…The game would go to Fox would be my bet…Gyngell said from a TV executive viewpoint its a great deal – he is head of a debt-laden listed company so he cant say he paid over the odds but he tied it up just b4 intereest payments fell and Fox got saturday exclusivity and he stopped Seven getting SOO which is the king so a good result but he wont make money week to week on 1 live game and 2 delayed which get relatively low ratings…
August 27th 2012 @ 1:48pm
Australian Rules said | August 27th 2012 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
I’m always a little bemused that people run with this theory that Ch9 are secretly an AFL-front and are engineering the demise of a sport for which they paid hundreds of millions of dollars for exclusive rights.
Yep, makes sense to me.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:43pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:43pm | Report comment
Ch9 Brisbane gives a lot of attention to AFL. It really surprises me to see them giving Aussie rules more time in the 6:00pm news than Super Rugby. I’m not a rugby union fan, but the people of Brisbane are far more interested in the Reds and Wallabies than the Lions.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:59pm
The Cattery said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
QGIRL
You should not be so quick to down play the interest in aussie rules in Brisbane.
Here is some interesting info for you.
Fox Footy has been winning the weekly aggregate Fox ratings hands down since the start of the footy season. There is daylight every week between Fox Footy and the next best station.
People might be surprised to learn that the numbers watching in Sydney and Brisbane are higher than you might first think.
In fact, in terms of capital city viewers for all stations, Fox Footy defeated Fox Sports 2 by 0.9% to 0.6% in Brisbane.
That’s quite an outcome.
In contrast, Fox Sports 2 barely registers in Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide (0.2%, 0.1%, 0.1%).
Source:
http://www.oztam.com.au//documents/2012/OzTAM-20120812-B2NatSTVShrRchCons.pdf
http://www.oztam.com.au//documents/2012/OzTAM-20120812-A2MetTTVShrCons.pdf
August 28th 2012 @ 10:10pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | August 28th 2012 @ 10:10pm | Report comment
Just a few Victorian ex-pats watching their teams play on Fox Footy. Hardly a sign of widespread appeal. Playing numbers, attendances and memberships are poor for the Lions. Take away the 8,000 or so members who are old Fitzroy fans based in Melbourne and their membership is a joke.
The Storm also rate highly on pay TV, but no one would be foolish to say that means rugby league is hugely popular in Melbourne.
August 27th 2012 @ 3:12pm
Matt_S said | August 27th 2012 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
Hamish, your indicator for AFL popularity is soley based on crowd numbers. The NRL facebook page outdoes the AFL, TV ratings outnumber AFL, Sales of Merchandise outdoes the AFL etc etc.
One thing AFL supporters never understand is that there is as many people out there who follow the NRL as AFL but not necessarily attend games hence why the AFL thought Sydney would fall decades ago. There are tones of people out there who are as tied to their team as anyone but have never even been to an NRL game.Hence, the 2 AFL games I have attended (one in WA & one at the MCG) always surprised me as the ‘bogan’ element was eyecatching. The bogan element in league don’t seem to have the money to attend the NRL to such an extent
If that’s Nine’s thinking, to please the Southern States, then big mistake as the population of NSW & QLD is bigger than the combined other States, so don’t by into that.
August 27th 2012 @ 4:40pm
The Cattery said | August 27th 2012 @ 4:40pm | Report comment
Matt
We are definitely willing to accept facts and figures, where they exist.
Plenty of doubt about the ratings – but I accept the NRL get excellent ratings all round.
On the question of merchandising – this was proven to be a furphy a while back. The fact is that your average AFL fan spends far more supporting the game than your average NRL fan – it’s fairly conclusive that one.
As for Facebook, it’s not the sort of indicator you can hang dollar signs off, but I checked it out anyway. I’m not sure where you’re looking, but these are the numbers I found:
NRL 80,637
AFL 464,618.
Then I checked Twitter:
NRL 59,249
AFL 84,814
Anyway, not the greatest indicator – Buddy Franklin alone has 339,753 followers.
In the online world, you can also look at the fantasy leagues. I’m not sure how big the NRL one is, but I doubt it reaches either of the two big AFL ones: Supercoach and Dreamteam, both have around 400,000 players.
August 27th 2012 @ 5:25pm
Matt_S said | August 27th 2012 @ 5:25pm | Report comment
Nice try Cattery, the ófficial’ NRL fb page has over 475 thousand followers!!
https://www.facebook.com/#!/nationalrugbyleague
So where is this conclusive evidence about merchandise? On an AFL website. Nothing was released to suggest otherwise. Link?
August 28th 2012 @ 9:18am
Australian Rules said | August 28th 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Arguing over “which sport is more popular” through how many “likes” it has on Facebook is one of the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen on the Roar.
August 28th 2012 @ 2:31pm
Hamish said | August 28th 2012 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
Week to week TV ratings were higher for AFL last year and the AFL didnt maximise their draw as the NRL does (until this year). Surveys shoe more Aussies follow AFL than NRL (interest only) as more women are attracted to AFL. The reference to the Southern Sates shows your lack of business savvy – they are struggling in these markets so NRL people will watch ( no matter what in general so they are reaching out to other States…
August 29th 2012 @ 11:20pm
Dingo said | August 29th 2012 @ 11:20pm | Report comment
Matt _S, rugby league people ALWAYS claim that the NRL outsells the AFL in merchandise but they NEVER back it up with links. However, when someone disputes their claim, the rl person demands a link.
Do you see any hypocrisy in that?
For your benefit I have added a couple of links so that before you make any unsubsantiated claims again you will know the facts. It is several years old but I think you will be able to get the picture.
“AFL licensed product also maintains its position as Australia’s number one licensed sports brand with retail sales of more than $150 million in 2006.”
http://www.superbrands.com/au/content/view/182/1/
2008.
“At the end of the 2nd quarter, the NRL’s licensing program (including Centenary of Rugby League royalties) was up 22% on the same period last year.
This represents more than $65M worth of retail sales for NRL, Kangaroos and Centenary of Rugby League sales for quarters 1 and 2.”
http://www.sportsbar.net.au/nrl-state-of-the-game/
It is almost impossible to find current and complete info on this for some reason.
August 30th 2012 @ 12:09am
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | August 30th 2012 @ 12:09am | Report comment
Daily Telegraph published a story a couple of years ago:
“THE AFL is reeling after receiving an independent report into the state of its merchandising business, putting it well behind the NRL in terms of the multi-million dollar industry. The report, obtained by Bec and Buzz, says the AFL’s sales are $15 million less than the NRL across the country, and reveals:
* The AFL sells a whopping 68 per cent less merchandise per fan than the NRL, though twice as many attend AFL games than NRL matches;
* Licensing revenue has fallen dramatically, even though memberships and game attendances are steady; and
* The AFL sells only one-tenth of the merchandise per person attending a game than the most successful merchandising code in the world, the NFL.
The report is damning of distribution and point of sale strategies and has called for a complete overhaul of every aspect of the AFL’s licensing department. The AFL is now looking at a complete restructure of the department, which will lead to many of the current licensees being axed.
August 30th 2012 @ 9:31am
Dingo said | August 30th 2012 @ 9:31am | Report comment
@ QGirl, I’ll give you a tip
If you want any credibility all, don’t quote an article from the Terrorgaffe as proof of something being true, especially one written by the universally disrespected Rebecca Wilson and Phil Rothfield.
If NRL did sell more merch than the AFL it would be the ONLY area in which it exceeds the AFL at anything. So all things being equal, even those with minimal mathematical ability, would be able to work out for themselves which one would sell more.
August 31st 2012 @ 3:20pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | August 31st 2012 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
“If you want any credibility all, don’t quote an article from the Terrorgaffe as proof of something being true, especially one written by the universally disrespected Rebecca Wilson and Phil Rothfield.”
You’re having a laugh, aren’t ya?
Your Aussie rules buddies are always quoting bigfooty.com.au. That site has been exposed as a bias site that peddles out fudged data. I’ll take the Daily Telegraph over bigfooty.com.au any day.
August 31st 2012 @ 4:16pm
Australian Rules said | August 31st 2012 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
He wasn’t quoting bigfooty.
But you WERE quoting Rebecca Wilson and Phil Rothfield haha
September 1st 2012 @ 9:33am
Dingo said | September 1st 2012 @ 9:33am | Report comment
“You’re having a laugh, aren’t ya?”
No, but I am grinning smugly.
September 2nd 2012 @ 12:58am
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | September 2nd 2012 @ 12:58am | Report comment
“No, but I am grinning smugly.”
Are you on drugs?
If you think bigfooty.com.au is more credible than the Daily Telegraph then you’re beyond brainwashed. Your AFL mates are always pointing to bigfooty.com.au as if it’s the most trustworthy souce in the universe.
I do not trust the mainstream media one bit, but on the same note I will not trust a site that is run by some nutty AFL fan who was caught out by MediaSpy for telling lies.
How can anyone take you seriously when you believe that a biased pro-AFL site is more credible than the mainstream media?
September 2nd 2012 @ 10:17am
Dingo said | September 2nd 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
You keep banging on about Big Footy.
I’ve scoured my comments and as far as I can see I have made no reference to that site at all. You might be able to see something that I can’t.
If you have any credible information to support your argument about merchandise post it, but please spare us D.T. “facts”.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:25am
Pot Stirrer said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:25am | Report comment
And yet another article being negative about the NRL. Its getting boring to look on this site for league storys,
How about the fact the NRL now has a billion dollars to develop the game like it has never had the funds to do in the past ?
August 28th 2012 @ 2:43pm
Matt_S said | August 28th 2012 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
Plus all that contra advertising. Wait till that kicks in.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:27am
Calcio said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:27am | Report comment
You don’t get those stories at the Roar! lol
August 27th 2012 @ 12:01pm
The Cattery said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
John Grant did say that about a 9th game.
When someone as intelligent as John Grant, in such a leadership position, makes a comment like that – it’s definitely worth taking the time to analyse it and understand it.
I can’t say for sure why he said it, but there are these factors to consider:
1. The AFL currently has 9 games live per round on Fox, and that inevitably involves clashes. The games that clash will generally involve one of those games drawing very low ratings, e.g. below 120k. The AFL has the depth of support to get away with that somewhat – but not too many sports in Australia can get away with games clashing.
2. The NRL currently has no clashes, except for Friday nights where Nine broadcasts a Brisbane game into Brisbane and a Sydney team game into Sydney, thereby maximising the national ratings for that time slot.
3. The NRL only took 3 games (only one live), while Fox took five games. They both could have taken more, but have decided that this suits their scheduling better. It looks like they have avoided the need for clashes. They probably have concluded that this number of games to the dollars spent, hits the sweet spot for them. There’s probably something in what Grant is saying.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:08pm
Von Neumann said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
this is what I was saying once about “funnelling”. all a part of maximising audience. just like efficiency in ratings is lost (i am not super up on terms) when you show 2 friday night matches side by side…so too must that happen when matches overlap.
and not just for dividing the audience in 2 “at the time” of the game…. what about viewer choice if matches are closely overlapping…..they may only watch some of one, and/or none of all. how is that good?
August 27th 2012 @ 12:57pm
The Cattery said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
I’m not familiar with the expression, but clearly, both Nine and Fox’s strategy is something along the lines of what you have described, and I believe John Grant is hinting this as well in his comments about a 9th game.
As I said, when someone as intelligent as he is makes a comment like that, there’s usually something of substance to it.
August 27th 2012 @ 1:16pm
Matt F said | August 27th 2012 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
One thing to take into account here is that it’s easier for the NRL to avoid clashes given that NRL games go for 2 hours as opposed to 3 hours for the AFL. For example the NRL could quite easily schedule games at 2pm, 4pm (or 3pm with the delayed coverage at 4pm like it is now) and 630pm. Foxtel have about 13 of these Sunday night games a year in the next deal. There wouldn’t be any overlap with the coverage and they could also still have the Warriors home matches which are at 12pm AEST. The extra slot on the Sunday night could be the permanent home of the 9th game.
That being said, I believe that the games that will be played on Sunday nights next year will normally be those that were one of the two 730 Saturday night games which would indicate that Foxtel isn’t too happy about its return from Viewers Choice on Saturday’s.
August 27th 2012 @ 2:53pm
Nafe said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
What 9 should do is play both games side by side, and then again. So on 9 they play the sydney game then the QLD game, while on Gem they play the Qld gamd and then the Sydney game. Some weeks i’m able to stay up and watch both, but other times im only inetested in one of them, if the game im interested in is the QLD one, and then i have to work or get up early on the Saturday, I don’t watch any of the games. so 9 would help their viewers if they played their matches side by side.
August 27th 2012 @ 3:16pm
The Cattery said | August 27th 2012 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
Nafe
A sensible and elegant solution which would cost Nine practically nothing, and win both them and the NRL a good deal of goodwill.
There’s plenty of time for the Commission to pursue such a concept.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:51pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:51pm | Report comment
Viewers would change the channel to the other game whenever there’s a commercial break. Advertisers wouldn’t be happy.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:30pm
M-Rod said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:30pm | Report comment
For the NRL to sign a TV deal that STILL allows Ch9 to delay any broadcast let alone the main Sunday match is an outrage and completely unacceptable to NRL fans in today’s media paradigm.
Geez its 2012 but might as well be 1978 with Rex Mossop on Ch7 when it comes to not being able to watch a live Sunday NRL game on TV.
As per usual I will be writing off the delayed Ch9 Sunday afternoon game in protest & just pickup the Foxtel (ad-free) replay at 6pm.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:04pm
Von Neumann said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
hmmmm. yes, that value is 10M. but they need 20 to get the team up, running, and floating.
so I think
and ch9 east coast, dont own the western australian afiliate. but they bloody should. wonder who does. .
but you know, too….there comes a time in ALL NEGOTIATIONS when – you SIMPLY RUN OUT OF THINGS TO NEGOTIATE WITH.
maybe thats whats happened too.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:21pm
planko said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
WIN television own Perth 9 i believe. WIN’s arrangement with Channel 9 I believe is pretty good but it does create a complication as in their is no direct income increase for Channel 9 if a Perth Team is created in the current deal. Surely they will renegotiate but it is just a complication.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:37pm
Brian Watson said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
The AFL are still way ahead of the nrl when it comes to hours of LIVE coverage and that is what the cough potatos whant!
August 27th 2012 @ 2:11pm
turbodewd said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
Its a shame NRL crowds are down 6% so far this year. Its surely evidence that we need more LIVE games. LIVE games increase crowd attendance. Alas we are on track for the worst crowd figures in over a decade. (Source http://www.austadium.com)
August 27th 2012 @ 2:32pm
Ian Whitchurch said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
If you want to improve crowds, eliminate Canberra. Their average home crowd of 9 920 drags the average down.
Oh. Wait. You barrack for Canberra, so they have to stay while some other club gets forced to move.
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/2012.html
August 27th 2012 @ 6:37pm
turbodewd said | August 27th 2012 @ 6:37pm | Report comment
Ian,
Raiders mgmt are to blame. They put woeful ads on TV and silly halftime egg races. The Raiders need to get out and about more in this town.
August 27th 2012 @ 7:25pm
Matt said | August 27th 2012 @ 7:25pm | Report comment
Maybe if they won a couple more…
August 27th 2012 @ 2:33pm
oikee said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
Look, it is simple maths, simple add and subtract. You kill the big clubs, strip their juniors, strip them of seniors, strip them of everythign to prop up weak Sydney teams who cant grow any bigger because of location, you will finally kill the game. It is what league is doing.
You have to allow the big clubs to flourish spread their wings. The Bronocs should be heading towards sellout crowds, but Gallop has sent the code spiralling the other way, less bums in Brisbane, less bums in Sydney as well.
The less bums in sydney is Manly winning all the time, everyone can see that they are not losing any senior players, ever, they just keep resigning and topping up with other clubs best juniors,. this practise has to stop now, not next year, now.
Ok, i can now give you a example of a healthy strong Brisbane, and Queensland for that matter. Look at Origin, this state has grown it into the powerhouse rivalry it is today, not Sydney. They would have killed that off as well if they had their way.
Queensland had to beg borrow and steal our players to compepte with Sydney. Still do, now they are trying to kill us by picking nZ players, they are not happy with just beating us with NSW players, they want everyone now.
I think it is time that outside players were allowed into the game, but carefully selected. If NSW pick one, (Tamou) then next choice should be Queensland to choice one, whoever they wish.
Genious.
All good.
This would be fair, and it would not get outta hand. Queensland could just refuse to pick a player for awhile, unless they really wanted a fantastic p-layer, which would allow them to have first digs. ?
Look, it is called spicing things up. I love big fire, lots of cheergirls, mascots, skydivers, anything to spice things up. Guys on trykes that break down, all good.
We need more cockroaches and canetoads at the origin battles as well. Put Fatty in a canetoad suite and let a couple of Cockies beat him up.
Anyhow, origin has grown into a goliath, now it is time for the Broncos to be allowed to grow, become the powerhouse club they really should be, not keep being knocked down. The Broncos should be the most feared club in the game, not just a certain 2 points. Your killing the game if you think this will grow the game, having a weak Brisbane.
August 27th 2012 @ 2:48pm
Ian Whitchurch said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
Oikee,
As usual, you have it completely backwards.
Rigging the system in favour of a small number of big clubs hurts the code as a whole.
August 27th 2012 @ 3:06pm
oikee said | August 27th 2012 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
No, you have it wrong, the salary cap was brought in to even out the comp. So this system is rigged.
You cant expect a huge club to become huge if they have to sit around for 20 years to win a comp. This is unhealthy for the code. You have a little club winning while letting a million supporters rot on the vine.
You will lose those supporters before they rot, they have other things to do.
The whole idea is to give those little clubs big ambitions, i am not saying hurt them, they still can be great clubs with great players, but you cant have a club like Brisbane Broncos weak, we dont even have 1 game breaker, one ball player. Mate, this is the worst team i have ever witnessed, not just in Brisbane or Sydney, ever in the game, the worst ever.
Can you understand that, i look at every other team every week and see ballplayers, good kids coming through, the Broncos offer nothing.
Not a ballplayer, not a halve who can even break the line or pass. The fullback just runs into tackles, he does not even step. Wallace thinks tackling front rowers is a good thing. ?? He is clueless.
August 27th 2012 @ 3:49pm
mushi said | August 27th 2012 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
Salary cap was brought in to control wage costs.
August 27th 2012 @ 5:15pm
Australian Rules said | August 27th 2012 @ 5:15pm | Report comment
Oikee,
I noticed that you blamed Gallop for Suncorp not being a sellout each week. That’s weird.
Then your salary cap rant turned into a “my Broncos are underperforming rant”.
For the record, there is no club in Australia (in any code) that has been gifted the sorts of advantages that the Brisbane Broncos enjoy. Your argument that they should be afforded more concessions and benefits is so out of step with reality that my brain just exploded upon writing this po…………
August 27th 2012 @ 9:59pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
“Put Fatty in a canetoad suite and let a couple of Cockies beat him up. ”
The Roar wouldn’t be the same without oikee.
August 28th 2012 @ 6:37pm
Australian Rules said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:37pm | Report comment
If only his spelling of “Genious” was intentional, it would actually be genius.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:15pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:15pm | Report comment
The Broncos were very complacent throughout their first two decades. They didn’t bother to get out into the community and promote memberships very much. If they did that from the start then they would have over 100,000 fighting it out for one of the 52,000 club memberships on offer and the Queensland Government would be looking at building a 100,000 seat rectangular stadium.
Until this year, I cannot remember the Broncos going hard at promoting club memberships. This year they’ve got onto TV on numerous occasions to promote the benefits of being a club member. When I bought a ticket to the Cowboys vs Broncos game they sent me out a couple of “Broncos Member 2012″ stickers and fridge magnets and a pamphlet asking me to become a member. They even made an automated phone call with Allan Langer’s voice a few days after the Cowboys game. That’s what they should have been doing in 1988.
I won’t join the Broncos — I’m a Cowboys fan and one of their Distant Star members, plus a ticketed member of Wynnum Manly and an Outback member of the Northern Pride — but all of those people who say the Broncos are their team should get their finger out and become a ticketed member. The club is starting to get its act together off the field. Fans shouldn’t care if their team doesn’t win all the time. All the matters is that their club makes an effort to connect with the fans. As a fant, I’d rather be a member of a club that goes out of its way integrate with its members.
The ARLC and QRL to get their finger out and build up the Queensland Cup. It has the potential to draw an average of 5,000 to 8,000 fan to each game. If it were to achieve this goal then there would be plenty of money for grassroots football. The same needs to be done with the NSW Cup. Throw the reserve grade versions of the Sydney NRL clubs out of the NSW Cup and replace them with teams from regional NSW and Sydney LGAs that don’t currently have a team of their own. A Bulldogs fan isn’t going to go watch the Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs NSW Cup team play when their NRL team is scheduled to play.
August 28th 2012 @ 7:48am
Matt_S said | August 28th 2012 @ 7:48am | Report comment
QGIRL, the QRL/Clubs are to blame for the fiasco that is the Queensland Cup. Take Redcliffe for instance, the pokie palace that is Redcliffe leagues see the club and its faciltities get more grand each year yet little spent on ground facilities. Don’t the idiots realise that if you have a nice stad attracting 5-6,000 people will be a nice earner especially when they all pile back into the league club after the game? Same with other clubs with facilities changing little over the decades. Who saw Norths Devils pathetic little wooden open stands (of you can call them that) on TV last weekend. You can’t even call it charming by- product of the past cos they were pathetic then and are pathetic now.
August 28th 2012 @ 10:16pm
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League said | August 28th 2012 @ 10:16pm | Report comment
The clubs do need to pull their finger out. Easts Tigers are the only club that have built a decent stand for spectators. The western grandstand at Langlands Park cost a fair bit to build. I spoke with the Easts CEO and the company that erected it in the early 2000s, Steel Post and Rail, to find out how much it would cost to get a similar stand built in Logan for a future Logan team. I could be wrong, but I think Steel Post and Rail said it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to build the western grandstand at Langlands Park.
Wynnum Manly have the shaded Arthur Lovell stand, but it’s poor compared to the one at Langlands Park.