Robbie Deans and Wallabies must beat Springboks at Perth
By Spiro Zavos, 27 Aug 2012 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- All Blacks, robbie deans, Rugby Union, The Rugby Championship, wallabies
212 Have your say
Australia rugby union coach Robbie Deans speaks with players Berrick Barnes and Nick Phipps. (AAP Image/Paul Miller)
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At 11am on Sunday I got an email from a New Zealand businessman who has lots of contacts and is generally well-informed about rugby politics. “Just got told Robbie will be sacked on Monday. I suspect it’s true.”
Later in the day he emailed, “Well it looks like John O’Neill can fight off the sacking calls a bit longer. The TV commentators were also sure Robbie was gone. But the media wasn’t as blood thirsty as I thought they would be after the game.”
On Friday I was interviewed by Brendan Telfer on New Zealand Radio Sports. He was quite insistent that Deans needed the Wallabies to defeat the All Blacks to avoid being sacked. I pointed out to him that the Wallaby coach had a contract taking him through to the end of 2013, after the British and Irish tour next year and another round of The Rugby Championship.
Telfer did not mention it specifically, but I would think that his questioning was based on what has been called in New Zealand “an extraordinary tirade” from the former Wallaby coach Alan Jones against Deans’ coaching methods and lack of success since he was appointed in 2008.
Jones suggested the Wallabies would be better off if Deans “remained in bed rather than travel to the ground”, and that the “structured approach” of the Wallabies play was stifling the flair of the players.
We need some history here. When Deans was appointed in 2008 he had won his fifth Super Rugby tournament with the Crusaders. The Wallabies were the fifth-ranked side in the world and in danger of collapse.
For most of last and this year they have been number two in the world, although the Springboks could move past them on the back of their fortunate 16-16 draw against the Pumas at Mendoza.
The fact of the matter is that in 2008 there was no genuine candidate available to the ARU to take over from John Connolly. Jones was one of the Australian candidates who applied with any pretension of being up to the job. But how much time would he have been able to devote with his highly successful broadcasting career?
During the first Rugby World Cup tournament in 1987, while still in the amateur era, Jones refused to allow his players to do their day jobs. But he was unavailable to his team in the mornings while he presented his radio program. Players complained about this afterwards and pin-pointed the absence of the coach as the main reason they did not win the tournament.
Last time the job was up for grabs, the only viable candidate other than Deans was Rod Macqueen. But there was no way Macqueen was going to come back. He carved out the most successful record of any Wallaby coach, but his last year or so was agony as he endured ridiculing and scoffing from senior players.
This was player power at its most obnoxious. And it was the same player power that destroyed David Nucifora’s career at the Brumbies, where he coached them to a Super Rugby tournament victory, despite the team forcing management to sack him early on in the season.
Deans has won just under 60 percent of his Tests with the Wallabies. They were third in the 2011 Rugby World Cup, after being forced out of 2007 tournament in the quarter-finals. This season they defeated Wales, the current Six Nations champions, in three successive Tests.
The Wallabies have also defeated the Springboks in their last four encounters. This includes a Test win at altitude, the first time the Wallabies have done this in 47 years.
And the last two Tests lost by the All Blacks were to the Wallabies, at Hong Kong and Brisbane.
There is no escaping the fact, though, that it is the lack of success by Deans against the All Blacks, with 14 losses out of 17 Tests since he became the coach, which is really hurting his cause.
Like many other rugby writers, I guess, I am getting many nasty emails about how the New Zealander Deans is actually a stalking horse for the All Blacks. Anyone who knows Deans, and the circumstances of his leaving New Zealand rugby, will dismiss this for the nonsense that it is.
The emphatic 22-0 loss by the Wallabies at Eden Park, the first time in 50 years the Wallabies have not scored a point in a Bledisloe Cup Test, has to be put in context. The Wallabies have not won at Eden Park against the All Blacks since 1986. The All Blacks have now won 30 straight Tests at Eden Park since their last loss in 1994 against France. The Wallabies have not won in New Zealand against the All Blacks since 2001. They have not held the Bledisloe Cup since 2003.
And to make matters even more difficult for Deans and the Wallabies, this year they are facing a side that is probably the best All Blacks side since 1987. This is a side that has won a Rugby World Cup, as the 1987 side did. It has firepower around the field in every position, on attack and defence.
Here are some interesting statistics. The top three tacklers for the All Blacks were Liam Messam, Richie McCaw and Aaron Smith, all with eight. The top tacklers for the Wallabies were Micheal Hooper with 19, Sitaleki Timani with 15 and Nathan Sharpe with 14.
Hooper and Timani are new Wallabies this season. Where are Scott Higginbotham, Will Genia and Dave Dennis in these statistics? Timani’s play is an example of what Deans has continually done in his Wallaby stint, and that is to get excellent play out of players who have not been rated in their own Super Rugby side.
Quade Cooper, almost invisible on Saturday night, and Kurtley Beale are the two outstanding examples of players who originally flourished when Deans promoted them.
The top three All Black ball-carriers were Sonny Bill Williams with 16, Israel Dagg with 12 and Hosea Gear with 10. The top three Wallaby ball-carriers were Sitaleki Timani with seven, Stephen Moore with six and Digby Ioane with six.
The top three with metres made for All Blacks were Israel Dagg with 60, Corey Jane with 55 and Hosea Gear with 55. For the Wallabies, Digby Ioane 39, Adam Ashley-Cooper 37 and Sitaleki Timani 15.
The potency of the All Black back three are obvious from these two lots of statistics. By inference, too, the statistics provide a condemnation of the Wallabies’ kicking game, especially that of Berrick Barnes who kicked away far too much ball, given the fact that the All Blacks were totally dominating the Wallabies in the rucks and mauls.
It seems to me that the All Blacks are a much better side under Steve Hansen than they were with Graham Henry as head coach. Admittedly, Henry set up the systems and selected most of the players now starring for the All Blacks. But under Hansen their defence is more dynamic and attacking.
They deliberately do not contest the high ball they kick. They allow the catcher to come to ground and then they smash him and drive through to win the ball.
Their front-line defence, too, is literally awesome. It was noticeable that Cooper, who likes to play flat, was forced to go deeper and deeper into quarter-back territory, to get even a moment of time before the black hulks were trying to knock him over.
A consequence of this intimidating, hard-shouldered, shuddering (for the ball carrier) defence is that the Wallabies did not get a point on the board, although it must be said that the Wallaby captain Genia made the mistake of twice turning down easy shots at goal when the Wallabies were well behind.
Memo to Genia: Always take the points.
It should be remembered, too, that Ireland were kept scoreless in their third Test against the All Blacks which they lost 60 – 0.
And, most importantly, the Wallabies conceded only one try to the rampant All Blacks. It is all very well saying that the All Blacks bombed any number of tries. They did. However, the defence of the out-played and out-gunned Wallabies was brave and well organised, and forced mistakes from the All Blacks. In the last 30 minutes of the Test, the All Blacks were kept scoreless.
This ability and courage of the Wallabies to keep on keeping on deserves credit. As Deans pointed out in a very sombre media conference, no side in the world could have lived with the All Blacks on Saturday night. I doubt whether any other side would have restricted the All Black invaders to a single try.
Alan Jones had a great response when he was under the hammer after an admittedly rare Wallaby loss when he was coach: “The dogs are barking but the caravan moves on.”
This is the only sane response Deans and the Wallabies can make after Saturday night. In two weeks’ time the Wallabies play the Springboks at Perth. I think there will be a couple of changes in the forwards and a couple in the backs. A problem that must be addressed is the lack of tries the Wallabies are recording, with six in six Tests this season.
The Springboks have their own problems. They were extremely lucky to draw with the Pumas. The only try they scored came from a charge-down by Francois Steyn after the Pumas, leading 16-7 and putting the Springboks under intense pressure, were guilty of complacent clearing from a ruck.
In my view, the Wallabies should defeat the Springboks at Perth. They must do this. They were more impressive in losing easily to the All Blacks (although the score-line was only 3-0 after half an hour’s play) than the Springboks were in drawing with the Pumas.
Spiro Zavos, a founding writer on The Roar, was long time editorial writer on the Sydney Morning Herald, where he started a rugby column that has run for nearly 30 years. Spiro has written 12 books: fiction, biography, politics and histories of Australian, New Zealand, British and South African rugby. He is regarded as one of the foremost writers on rugby throughout the world.
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- All Blacks, robbie deans, Rugby Union, The Rugby Championship, wallabies


August 27th 2012 @ 6:27am
DanSA said | August 27th 2012 @ 6:27am | Report comment
They will beat the boks because Heyneke Meyer is playing the same game plan as the Bulls since 2007. Pocock or Gill will poach all night and the backline will runthe boks ragged …
August 27th 2012 @ 9:50am
Ooaahh said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:50am | Report comment
are you sure…??? here’s our coach
“The shackles are off,” Deans said matter of factly.
“They are playing like a side that’s endorsed before the first whistle and from a purely rugby perspective it’s a blueprint in terms of their mental and physical capabilities.
“Their ability to cope when they haven’t got the ball, their ability to adapt and read what’s happening. Clearly they’re No 1 and for good reason they’ve been No 1 for some time.”
what does this mean?
August 27th 2012 @ 9:47pm
Shop said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:47pm | Report comment
It means he doesn’t have a clue.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:00am
Jokerman said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:00am | Report comment
I did made this prediction on the roar 2 days ago…I have to put it down, I hope you dont mind..:)
“The All Blacks will be happy with a 1 point win. But it is being with the trueness of their power moment to moment that will really matter…if they stay with that, a 22 point win is likely.”
August 27th 2012 @ 11:28am
Jokerman said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:28am | Report comment
Nice article Spiro and I agree. Australia would be kicking butt, if it wasn’t for the All Blacks.
The transition from the last RWC to this year, I have not really seen before. 2007, there was a huge departure of players. This time around they have perfected the blend of staying with the proven mastered, but allowing the new to enter.
There is so much depth, so much talent. Throw in a deep pride and it’s a master team. (22 is a master number by the way:))
What The All Blacks also have is a deep, nearly spiritual element, not much different from the Haka. It does give them an edge. This depth is usually connected to the arts.
I felt nearly sorry for Robbie Deans, his confidence looked a little shot before the game in the interview. Cooper’s confidence was also shot, and it showed in his interview before the game. He ran from that interview, he did not address any issues there, brushed it off…what happens when you don’t address something in your past? It becomes baggage, and Cooper played with that, afraid to make a mistake, afraid to look like a fool, and it blunted his game, took away his shine, and he looked bland, ineffective. He can be so much better.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:05pm
biltongbek said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:05pm | Report comment
Well Australia didn’t really kick Wales’ butt in the June series, certainly not Scotland’s.
August 28th 2012 @ 11:08am
Jokerman said | August 28th 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Billtongbek, Australia won against the best Northern team in a clean sweap…put it however you wish. The mind will always find a negative.
August 27th 2012 @ 6:32am
Justin2 said | August 27th 2012 @ 6:32am | Report comment
I have heard since that loss that our defence was fantastic or any other positive descriptor. I’d suggest you all watch the tape again. had the All Blacks not been so inept near the try line you would all be sating it was poor, which it was. This in reality was a 45 point humiliation, not a one try loss.
Saying we only conceded one try is correct but it was not due to defence. The ABs were continually allowed to run and take the advantage line. We are not getting off the line at all and players are missing simple tackles (Dennis, Higgers et al). Defence is about attitude and reflects the teams spirit, belief and enjoyment. All three are sorely lacking, it’s obvious why.
August 27th 2012 @ 6:52am
moaman said | August 27th 2012 @ 6:52am | Report comment
Justin2 —I read in the Dominion this morning that the ABs bombed “up to 8 tries”..so there is something in what you say BUT I thought one or two Wallabies were outstanding-particularly Adam A-C and that generally the scrambling defense off phase-ball was exceptional and something the Wallabies can be proud of.
August 27th 2012 @ 7:34am
Justin2 said | August 27th 2012 @ 7:34am | Report comment
Moa that ma be the case but you can’t be the best if your attitude isn’t right for 80. You can’t rely on scrambling defence all the time, we were very fortunate the abs finishing was inaccurate.
I thought the performance the week before was on a par, they were both ordinary and lacked any structure as usual!
August 27th 2012 @ 7:43am
mania said | August 27th 2012 @ 7:43am | Report comment
j2 – u cant discount WB’s defence. OK it didnt have sting to it but it was adequate enough to disrupt some of the AB’s forays.
timani played awesome. this article points out what an excellent player he’s becoming. guess KPM has been right all season asking to promote him. higgers and dennis (dennis who) need to spend some time in the thinking corner. admittedly higgers was actually involved in the rucks and mauls a lot more than the 1st test but these two are still a liability.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:37am
Justin2 said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:37am | Report comment
I can easily mania, it was ordinary and only the butchering of tries has hidden the fact.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:41am
mania said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:41am | Report comment
j2 – WQ mentioned something and the fact that now the wb’s dont think they’re all that they can actually start developing properly.
anyway i thought the defence of the wb’s was much improved, tho offense was abysmal. i really expected more from wb’s this game
August 27th 2012 @ 10:30am
WQ said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:30am | Report comment
I agree mania, I think they may have turned the corner.
The first step to improvement is to accept that you have to improve! I think their attitude was excellent on Saturday and if they carry that attitude into the South African game they will win.
There are to many Wallaby fans so disappointed by another loss to the All Blacks to actually see the positives out of that game.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:37am
mania said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:37am | Report comment
of course u agree WQ, it was your comment i ripped off as my own. yeah the 1st step to solving a problem is to admitting you have one. wb’s wont have any disillussions of where they sit in world rugby now. hopefully they start getting better by admitting how bad they’ve been.
aus defence was pretty good i thought. much more improved and a glimpse of good team work.
agree with u when u said to j2 that it was aussie pressure that stopped AB’s from scoring another 2-3 tries.
August 27th 2012 @ 2:10pm
Campbell Watts said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
Ah so we’re back to the Wallabies “building” phase again are we?
Improving each week etc etc
Heard that for how long?
August 27th 2012 @ 8:09pm
Kuruki said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:09pm | Report comment
Quade Cooper said he didn’t think they played badly. That is concerning. I thought they did. And it was once again the All Blacks lack of execution that kept the scoreline down. On a good day the Ab’s would have converted about 5 of those opportunities and the scoreline would have been closer to 40. The Wallabies did scramble well but for a test match they gave the All Blacks way too many opportunities that come Brisbane will probably be converted.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:40am
WQ said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:40am | Report comment
Justin2, I think the Wallaby defense was outstanding, they ran into a white Hot All Black side and only conceded one try. The All Blacks did’nt bomb tries they did’nt score more tries because of excellent defense.
I will agree with you re defense and attitude, the two go hand in hand, with that in mind I think the Wallabies may have just turned the corner. In addition to this the fact they are now prepared to say they need to improve speaks volumes for their attitude.
If Deans can get a couple of selections right, they will beat the South Africans in a fortnight.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:17am
Justin2 said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Two clear bombs – Dagg didnt pass to an unmarked man and was brilliantly caught by AAC. Carter was over the line and threw a stupid and unnecessary pass which didnt go to hand.
There were others but my memory (as usual fails me). Regardless the line speed was not good enough, neither was the organisation inf the front line. Too many players moving sideways not forwards.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:32am
moaman said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:32am | Report comment
I rewatched the Carter “bomb” and it appeared that Gear was perfectly-positioned to receive and score had DC passed a moment earlier.Perhaps Beales out-stretched right paw caused the delay…..
Dagg needed to straighten..I noticed that Gear was waiting inside him when Dagg scored that memorable try in the 1st Test by going around Beale.Had KB made the tackle on that occasion we could point the finger at Dagg again.He will learn from watching the tape,I hope. Near misses Justin2 include Read dropping the ball over the chalk and RM doing the same whilst lying on his back in the in-goal.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:49am
Justin2 said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Ah yes they are the others, thanks Moa. It was an onslaught.
Carter IMO should have just gassed it, he fell over the line anyway, he just didnt have the ball!
August 27th 2012 @ 10:27am
WQ said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Justin2, I will beg to differ, you call them ‘bombed tries’, I will call them pressured mistakes from good defense.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:04am
Justin2 said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
Good defense wouldnt have them in those situations in the first place
Dont confuse ticker and determination with good defence…
August 27th 2012 @ 4:33pm
atlas said | August 27th 2012 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
NZ Herald listed five:
The first was a knock-on by Israel Dagg
the second saw Liam Messam turned crossing the line and stripped of the ball by Sitaleki Timani
the third was a knock-on by Kieran Read in the act of reaching out to score
the fourth by Richie McCaw from a ruck over the line
and the fifth was a pass error by Dan Carter.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:51pm
El Gamba said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:51pm | Report comment
Lucky they didn’t mention the ridiculous refereeing decisions that blatantly favoured the home team. Would’ve required a massive lift out bumper edition!
Don’t get me wrong, AB’s were better but were running down-hill with a strong tail wind all night playing with 16. Hard to get an accurate indication really.
The AB’s should get their 20 straight if there isn’t a referee brave enough to set the tone of the game early and let’s face it, there isn’t.
Lucky for the Wallabies, most refs hate the saffas
August 27th 2012 @ 6:34am
Johnno said | August 27th 2012 @ 6:34am | Report comment
-Apparantly and im not certain but apparently there is a clause in Deans contract that says he can be terminated with out having to pay it out. If this is the case that is good news. If they lose to Boks in Perth Deans should be sacked unless they put in a good effort,
-And the wallaby sports medicine staff and strength and condoning staff have to be reviewed they did not look as fit as the ab’s. And Australia has the same amount of money as NZ so no excuse there.
-I wonder if Benji Marshall or kieren Foran would be motivated to change codes they would be outstanding All Blacks. as would Shaun johnson , and James Maloney from the warriors. Issac Luke would be handy too. But they don’t need them it seems. Benji marshall has been to a few ab sessions last year, and shaun johnson has been in contact with the ab’s 7evens coach they are interested in him. Marshall and Foran would be great.
-Wallaby backs could do with some of the massive league back right now. Inglis,Folau,Jamal idris, Hodges, tate, jennings, and Kamricheal Hunt unless Hunt wants to become an AB. Hunt was outstanding in French rugby and could play for ab’s to as he is eligible he is only 25 or 26 incredible.
-Boks wont be as tough as AB’s, Bismarc out, they should of lost to pumas,. Like playing at Perth but wallabies can win if they turn up and play hard. Never thought id say this bit the wallabies can’t afford to lose Timani to injury.
-And Micheal Hooper was outstaning. I never thought i’d say this too, but the forwards are better with him than Pocock at least this team. Pocock is slow and has no running game. Pocock offers another hit up option he makes good yards , which is good, and he is faster around the pitch. And I love his energetic attitude to rugby has the right temperament for top level rugby. Full of energy. And Liam Gill too was outstanding . Pococok will have to fight really hard if he wants to get back into the squad.
-A bit like Mealmu Hooper is, and Andrew Hore is like Pocock is great at steeling and fetching in the rucks.
-Aussies can win in Perth. But I give the wallabies no chance winning in Argentina or in STh Africa.
August 27th 2012 @ 7:43am
Rugby Realist said | August 27th 2012 @ 7:43am | Report comment
Maloney is an aussie. He was under consideration for NSW Origin in early season talks before his form went a bit south
August 27th 2012 @ 8:01am
M.O.C. said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:01am | Report comment
What is the fascination with trying to select RL players to become ABs and WBs. The two games are vastly different and only a few freak players have been able to succeed in the past I also suspect that you do the ABs an injustice with regard to their depth suggesting they would even want to look at players outside their own sport.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:27am
garth said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:27am | Report comment
It is a lot easier for RU players to switch to league, than for league players to switch to union. Union is far more complex, with very little stop & go, if you get tackled the opposition just piles in on top, unlike league where they let u get back up. As for AFL, only good for training fullbacks.
August 27th 2012 @ 2:12pm
Dan said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
In all honesty the evidence doesn’t really back this up when you look at the players who’ve switched over the years. Not too many going from Union to League anymore, but plenty they other way, and they generally all end up as international rep players.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:14pm
Kuruki said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:14pm | Report comment
Because there was more money in Rugby not because League is harder to play.
August 27th 2012 @ 2:08pm
Dan said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
Johnno,
“Wallaby backs could do with some of the massive league back right now. Inglis,Folau,Jamal idris, Hodges, tate, jennings, and Kamricheal Hunt unless Hunt wants to become an AB. Hunt was outstanding in French rugby and could play for ab’s to as he is eligible he is only 25 or 26 incredible.”
As a dual code fan I know exactly what you mean. Watching Inglis, Thurston, Hodges, Slater etc in the NRL I can’t help but lament the fact that we have a split between the rugby codes. How brilliant it would be to see their skill, power and aggression brought to the wallabies. Fainga and Horne are servicable centres… Hodges and Inglis and world class, and it takes a world class combination to tackle SBW and Nonu. Dan Carter too, I’m afraid, is simply a different breed of player at 10 to anything in Australian rugby at the moment. But I would put Thurston in a similar category; the man always seems to have time and to know when to inject himself with the right play. He doesn’t have the ‘headless’ chook look of either Cooper or Barnes when the pressure is on.
As for your statement that the wallabies can’t win in Arg or SA, time will tell, but I think they both can and will. Under deans the Wallabies have an incredible record against South Africa, and I think we shouldn’t be too judgemental about the last two games considering the class of their opposition.
August 27th 2012 @ 2:13pm
NC said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
Interesting observation about Pocock. Maybe he could be hooker? he looks the shape
August 27th 2012 @ 4:58pm
Jonny G said | August 27th 2012 @ 4:58pm | Report comment
Johnno I saw somewhere that Shaun Johnson would consider switching codes to play for NZ in the Rio Olympics
August 27th 2012 @ 6:37am
2 Bob Billy said | August 27th 2012 @ 6:37am | Report comment
The Wobblies must beat the Springboks in Perth. Wow… Really?
Apologist for mediocracy. Do you support the All
Blacks or the Wallabies? Which one is it as I’d like to know?
Send him(Deans) and most of the Muppets to the gallows this week and make sure it’s televised.
August 27th 2012 @ 6:40am
WoobliesFan said | August 27th 2012 @ 6:40am | Report comment
Spiro, you are the weakest link.
Thank god for Alan Jones.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:39am
sheek said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:39am | Report comment
Wooblies,
Show respect. Spiro has earned the right of being acknowledged as a knowledgeable & highly respected journalist & writer, without cheap shots from the likes of you…..
August 27th 2012 @ 8:50am
Ziggy said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Knowledgeable – maybe? Highly respected? Jury is out on that I suspect.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:23am
WoobliesFan said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Sheek,
Firstly, that’s your shortest post in a while…well done.
I’m allowed my opinion.
Sprio is a Kiwi and Dean’s apologist and the article is as soft as it comes at a time when we need, in-your-face, face-the-facts reporting….that’s the AUSSIE way….true-blue, say it how it is. I don’t need no Kiwi reporter (howver respected he is) trying to smoke and mirror yet another loss.
That’s why I like Jones – the acid truth delivered in a shot glass….hard, fast and to the point.
We’re simply past the point of articles like this one.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:34pm
Dan said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
If Alan Jones was actually an authority on sport, then it’d be worth listening to him. But in reality he’s a no-nothing who bleats at the top of his voice to hide the fact he doesn’t actually have anything of value to say.
The Jones apologists out there talk of him as if he were a Wayne Bennett or a Rod MacQueen, but he was a flash in the pan and nothing more. What did he do? Imported a bit of talent and got the players to effectively train like professionals in the amateur era – basically what the All Blacks had been doing forever. It got them a bledisloe and a grand slam, and then the wheels fell off at the World Cup, when this one trick pony ran out of ideas.
What did he do then? He used his self-proclaimed expertise to go to league, taking the helm at Souths and Balmain in the early 90s. How did that turn out again? Do the Jones’ apologists even know or remember? I’ll tell you. The man was a complete and utter failure. Both teams were nothing short of mediocre under his tenure, even losing more than they won on occasion.
So yes, by all means lets have an honest conversation about Deans and the Wallabies, but please refrain from this specious nonsense about Jones. His supporters need to understand the truth that this man left coaching because he just couldn’t hack it, and found it easier to return to radio where people would only hear his words and thus not be able to judge his actions (or lack thereof).
August 27th 2012 @ 3:57pm
SandBox said | August 27th 2012 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
didn’t Jones convert a top track and field 400m runner to Balmain? Ruined his athletic career as well if my memory pills are working.
Jones style of hypocrisy is a destructive force in the world. Stand in front of a camera and say any baseless comment with confidence – amazing how many sheep will follow this fairie in wolf’s clothing
August 28th 2012 @ 6:51pm
JohnB said | August 28th 2012 @ 6:51pm | Report comment
Darren Clarke. Not sure but his track career probably over by then? 4th in 2 Olympics.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:39pm
Kuruki said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:39pm | Report comment
Woobliesfan
Your team are more at home in skinny jeans, walking around a shopping mall enjoying the attention of chuckling teenage girls then they are on the rugby paddock.
They spend more time looking over their twitter accounts then they do studying their playbooks.
They don’t feel embarrassed about the performances they put in because they have 100,000 twitter followers telling them how great they are 10 minutes after they have been taken to school in a test.
They show more aggression in nightclubs and pubs then they do on the paddock.
There are too many paycheck players who see the Wallaby jersey as a new car or a holiday in the south of France rather then as an honor and a lifelong dream.
They are more passionate about what shoes they will wear with their new jeans then they are about winning the Bledisloe cup.
When a coach asks them to step out of their comfort zone, they go into their shells.
They kick the ball away so often because they have no self belief, no instinct and no guts.
The way they currently play is not true blue Aussie…..it’s yellow.
Now that is a double shot of acid truth.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:37pm
Rob from Brumby Country said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:37pm | Report comment
Well, I can’t imagine Stephen Moore being at home in skinny jeans (thank Christ) but you’ve got a very valid point, Kuruki. Our so-called superstars (specifically the Three Amigos) are narcissistic wusses. I’d even be prepared to say it to their faces.
How did it come to this? Why are they so bloody immature? Why aren’t they devoted to the task of being the best they can be? Why doesn’t the Wallabies jersey inspire some goddamn professionalism in these spivs?
I can’t imagine a kiwi getting away with tarring the All Black brand in the same way that O’Connor and Beale and Cooper have trashed the Wallabies’ image with their idiotic antics on and off the field. They’re like rich kids at a summer camp; everything’s a game to them and nothing is serious. I can honestly say that I often find myself wishing that they had never pulled on a Wallabies jersey.
August 28th 2012 @ 8:03am
mick-e said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:03am | Report comment
Rob-
Moore is the real captain at the moment. Deans should formalize it.
Genia has been totally outplayed by Smith and needs to concentrate on this game. Hes a total no show as captain. Needs to stop defending the Amigos and play himself.
As for the Amigos they should look at young Hooper. He puts them to shame. Gill needs to get rid of his lip piercing and he might do the same. We’d have been better off without the Amigos and to have taken on sensible, mature players like Cam Shepherd.
August 28th 2012 @ 8:03am
mick-e said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:03am | Report comment
Rob-
Moore is the real captain at the moment. Deans should formalize it.
Genia has been totally outplayed by Smith and needs to concentrate on this game. Hes a total no show as captain. Needs to stop defending the Amigos and play himself.
As for the Amigos they should look at young Hooper. He puts them to shame. Gill needs to get rid of his lip piercing and he might do the same. We’d have been better off without the Amigos and to have taken on sensible, mature players like Cam Shepherd.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:56pm
SandBox said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:56pm | Report comment
Kuruki, the anecdotal evidence would agree. Morgan’s excellent post below sums up the Wallabies twitter stars, and it isn’t good. Feel lucky the “fame above everything else” mindset hasn’t hit your shores yet
August 27th 2012 @ 2:08pm
Photon said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
Knowledgeable, Sheek maybe you should check the internet and see where the All Blacks lost before the Brisbane test. Then ask yourself whether a knowledgeable rugby journalist would make the incorrect statement in twice.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:57am
peterlala said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:57am | Report comment
Alan Jones gave “an extraordinary tirade”. No. He told the truth.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:25pm
Dan said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
Well, I suppose there is a first time for everything. Sadly I don’t think this was it…
August 27th 2012 @ 5:34pm
BARGE-ARSE said | August 27th 2012 @ 5:34pm | Report comment
NEVER should Alan Jones be connected with any Australian side … we don’t want another episode from the toilet block, do we?
August 27th 2012 @ 6:45am
moaman said | August 27th 2012 @ 6:45am | Report comment
So Spiro-I take this as a ringing endorsement of Robbie Deans and his staff?
One thing I would question is the point of taking 3 points when trailing by 22 and fifteen minutes to go.This could only be a form of hoisting the white flag of surrender-an admission of inferiority.Impossible to win in increments of 3 with so little time left.
So Genia took the option that might lead to a try and hopefully conversion to give his team a sniff.
Taking the three at that stage could only be to avoid the zero at fulltime.A pathetic reason given Australia are rated 2nd in the rankings.Or should that read ranked second-rate?
August 27th 2012 @ 8:44am
sheek said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:44am | Report comment
Moaman,
I think wahat Spiro was doing is giving the history of how Deans ended up as Wallaby coach. He was the best candidate at the time, & only someone who is mean spirited would have wished him to fail.
Wallabies fans are entitled to be disappointed that Deans tenure hasn’t been what we might have wished for, but that’s life.
However, I do disagree with Spiro that Genia should have taken points towards the end of the match. The Wallas were so far behind, they had to salvage something more than a penalty goal. They needed a try. But as my neighbour mate (who was watching with me) said to me, the Wallas won’t & can’t score a try.
Sadly, he was proven correct. But they still had to try for the try…..
August 27th 2012 @ 9:04am
moaman said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Gidday Sheek—I sit on the fence regarding Deans and his tenure-and really have no opinion about whether or not he should continue.I just think it is important that those with a vested interest come out and support their man(or not) in these troubled times.
We are both in agreement that the Wallabies (and Genia) took the right option in going for the corner late in the game–{just as they took the wrong option in doing so V Scotland btw} but interestingly,Justin Marshall agreed with Spiro that they should “take the points”. Everyone sees things from a different angle I guess.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:23am
sheek said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:23am | Report comment
Hi Moaman,
I accept Deans is not working out, & there comes a time when you need to provide a circuit breaker & see if anyone else can improve the situation.
I have also steadfastly maintained that because of our structures, the Wallabies are “programmed” to fail at the highest level. Occcasionally an outstanding coach, or /& an exceptional group of players might prove the exception (1984-86, 1991-94, 1998-2002), but generally, the Wallabies are doomed to “ordinariness”.
Our history confirms this. While we have produced many outstanding players & occasionally great teams, neither have remained around long enough to build the kind of dynasties enjoyed by the ABs.
However, I do agree the situation with Deans is perhaps made murkier by vested interests, especially at the top of the ARU. John O’Neill’s ego, & his legacy, are deeply intertwined with those of Deans.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:52am
colvin said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:52am | Report comment
Moaman,Sheek,
I completely understand the logic of not taking the points. They would have been booed by the crowd if they had taken the kick at goal. So be it.
A team needs to get on the board. History will always refer to this team as “being kept scoreless” or the new phrase “getting a doughnut”. A team can be citicised for being well beaten; but for the rest of time, being referred to as having been kept scoreless is a real downer.The circumstances that they turned down some penalty kick options will be forgotten.
It’s like a dreaded duck at cricket. Best to get at least 1 run. No one can then say you got a duck.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:16am
moaman said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:16am | Report comment
colvin; A decision about whether or not to kick for goal should NEVER be decided by whether or not the crowd would approve! I believe-or at least suspect that the Newcastle crowd may have unduly influenced the captain-of-the-day to go for corner and not posts and i bet he would want to revisit that decision! But seriously,I opened the batting for about 20 years in (lower) grade cricket and couldn’t really give a stuff whether or not I scored 0 or 1–both would have been equally agonising to me.
Kicking a goal in that situation-thereby lessening the chances of victory by killing time would be like settling for a nice little ‘not-out’ instead of trying to win by hitting a six off he last ball!
August 27th 2012 @ 2:33pm
colvin said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:33pm | Report comment
Moaman,
I hear you. And I guess there’s no one answer that everyone one will agree with.
I remember watching cricket on TV in Aus a few years ago and when someone got a duck a cartoon duck wandered across the screen dragging a bat behind him. Poking a bit of fun at the batsman. It might still happen, I don’t know. But if the batsman got off the mark the duck didn’t appear. Probably doesn’t matter when all is considered but records are kept of how many ducks someone gets but not of how many 1′s. So there is a historical face thing in there somewhere.
I remember Frank Cameron a pretty good medium pacer who played for NZ in the 1960′s. Frank (who was my history teacher at school) always batted at 11 but believed he should be higher in the order. He took great pride in his batting average which became a discussion point because of the number of not outs. He would always fight to the very end and would never give away his wicket. Frank wasn’t known as a six hitter and I can’t recall whether he won a match with his batting. But his knicks and prods would get 1′s and 2′s and he would be particularly proud if he got double figures. Even more so if he was not out.
So would Frank risk getting out last ball if the alternative was he had to hit a six off a Dennis Lillie or a Shane Warne to close the gap a little but not win? Not really sure but I think in those days a sense of realism tended to take priority and Frank would go for the not out.
So I see something like this with Ireland getting done by 60 points and Aus by 22. If they had got on the scoreboard they couldn’t be ridiculed for being kept scoreless (first time in 50 years etc.) Being kept scoreless becomes an historical fact that people will always refer to. Getting some points is only slightly better but in my view it is better.
Not all will agree though.The point of being seen to be going down fighting (never giving up against the odds, no matter whatever the consequences) is always a consideration.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:34am
formeropenside said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:34am | Report comment
I did not wish Deans to fail, but he has. I thought it was a mistake at that time to appoint a foreign coach, and so it has proved.
Another reason I thought it an error was that by appointing Deans, there was no other option for a long period. If someone else had been appointed, Deans could still have been picked up in 2009 or 2010. Assuming Connolly really would not stay on post-2007, I would have gone with Alan Jones: if nothing else, the may can motivate and spot talent. I dont expect he’d have done a lot of “coaching” per se, but at least when it all went pear shaped there would be a fallback position.
Instead, it is only recently that Link has come back into contention.
To me, it seems Deans selection policies are incomprehensible, do not reflect form or fitness, and are not tailored to any particular game plan. In part, that may be because I see little evidence of a game plan beyond hoping for a miracle line break from time to time.
I’m not keen on quoting Cromwell, but I suppose if it was used in respect of Chamberlain in 1940, it cannot be too far abused in 2012:
“You have sat too long for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go! “
August 27th 2012 @ 10:20am
Sprigs said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Yes, that is right.
It is the foreign nature of the coach that is the problem.
Good grief.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:41am
formeropenside said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Its the same root cause Eddie Jones failed at Queensland – his heart was not in it, at least not for the right reasons.
I mean, some of the errors made are just egregious.
I mean, I may be wrong about the underlying reasons, but the fact remains I thought it was a mistake to appoint Deans for 2008, and that view has proven correct. Unless of course, you are happy with one tri-nations win in 5 years (against weakened opposition), losses to Samoa, Scotland and England at home, a Grand Sham, RWC failure, and an inability to win a Bledisloe series (although there is plenty of blame to be pointed at JON for this with a 4-game series, but we were never close).
August 27th 2012 @ 7:48pm
IronAwe said | August 27th 2012 @ 7:48pm | Report comment
Come on mate, it has absolutely nothing to do with where he came from. I am surprised that the idea is even entertained. Ask yourself, if you were appointed coach of a foreign team would you still give it your all and be the best coach you could be? Of course you would.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:55pm
Sylvester said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:55pm | Report comment
The guy is a long-term professional coach, whose career and reputation survives only through successful results. You really think he’d just phone it in with the Wallabies?
August 27th 2012 @ 10:24am
Rob from Brumby Country said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Yeah, foreign coaches are terrible. Just ask the Brumbies…
August 27th 2012 @ 11:27pm
IvanN said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:27pm | Report comment
wheres that LIKE button
August 27th 2012 @ 6:48am
Jeff said | August 27th 2012 @ 6:48am | Report comment
Last year before the RWC I heard Phil Kearns state that we had 5 players who were the best in the world in their position and therefore we were favourites to win the Cup.They were Beale,Cooper,O’Connor,Genia and Pocock. At the RWC with perhaps the exception of Genia none of them came within a bulls roar of establishing themselves as the best player in their position in the world.And if you look at them today [apart from O'Connor who is injured] I would argue that they have all gone backwards in that respect.And in this last test two of them,Beale and Cooper didn’t even justify their position in the team.
Over the last week the media and roarers have bombarded us by saying Cooper must be selected as he provides the X factor for the Wallabies.
And he spent the whole game running around like a headles chicken.Equally there was a strong opinion in favour of Beale being selected so he could atone for his shocker in the first test.The argument was that he couldn’t have two games like that in a row.Well he didn’t.Last Saturday night was worse.And Genia is being outclassed by Smith who is in his first year as an international.
The point I am trying to make is that the so called stars of the Wallabies are playing abysmally and also some well established players like Higginbotham ,Moore [when will he learn to throw into a lineout correctly] and Robinson are not fronting up.
And the problem is that there is no-one to replace them.Sure there may be some issues with the coaching but as a very well known athletics coach once said.
“I can’t put in what God left out.”
August 27th 2012 @ 8:00am
Snobby Deans said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:00am | Report comment
Jeff, your problem is encapsualated in yoiur first sentence. Anyone listening to Phil Kearns should see a doctor immediately; the guy is an absolute one-eyed idiot and a complete disgrace. Rod Kafer, Brendan Cannon, Tim Horan, all good, balanced commentators.
Phil Kearns and Greg Martin are the Dumb and Dumber of rugby commentary; good for a laugh, but not to be taken seriously.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:26pm
peterlala said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
Agree, Kafer, Cannon and Horan are good…I like Marto too, but he shouldn’t have called for that ball from Campo (only kidding).
August 27th 2012 @ 8:38am
Sailosi said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
Jeff, you must remember that apart from a very select few you must never listen to an Australian rugby commentator. There are people still out there who think Benn Robinson is still one of the best props in the world. This is by no means an exaggeration, he would not be in the top 75 props in the world. There are some out there that still think that losing to Samoa was an embarrasment despite the fact that less than 7 Wallabies would make the Samoan side.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:46am
Jeff said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:46am | Report comment
If you watch rugby in Australia how can you not listen to an Aussie commentator.Kafer and Horan are excellent and well balanced.I agree about Kearns but I was making a point about how many in our media build the Wallabies up to fail and then berate them when they don’t live up to the way they have hyped them.
And the further example was the way Cooper was hyped all last week as the answer to our problems and Deans was berated for not selecting him for the first test.
Does anyone now think he would have made any difference to the result in the first test
August 27th 2012 @ 8:46am
WQ said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
Jeff, the problem with your post is explained in the first 9 words!
Phil Kearns is quite simply the most one-eyed Rugby commentator in the history of the game. He is so blinded by his bias towards the Wallabies it surprises me that he did’nt say they had 15 world class players.
His commentary on Saturday was almost the worst I have heard and he is quite simply wrong with a lot of his interpretations of the legitimacy of infringements and penalties.
August 27th 2012 @ 2:20pm
NC said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
Beale is a better 10 than Cooper
August 27th 2012 @ 6:51am
Charging Rhino said | August 27th 2012 @ 6:51am | Report comment
On the flip side the Sprinboks HAVE to beat the Wallabies in Perth to save face and bring back a bit of pride for SA rugby after that Mendoza debacle.
That was the most brainless game plan and atrocious rugby from the Boks I have seen in a long time. Well done to the Puma’s pack, they played well. But in all honesty the Boks have to wake up, and very quickly!! People are calling for Meyers head already. The pack is made up of a bunch of talented, strong individuals who have no clue how to play with one another yet and setup a platform for th backs. Then Morne’s licking everything away!!!! And is dour when he decides to attack!
By the way Spiro the Boks beat the All blacks last year in PE….!!!????? One week before the All Blacks lost again to the Wallabies in Brisbane. Man you need to do proper research. I seem to remember stats and scores far better than you and I’m just a regular dude, not a rugby journo!
Wallabies were poor too sadly. But they have lost Horwill, Pocock, O’Connor, have a recovering Quade Cooper and do not really have top class centers unless Adam Ashley Cooper plays there. So it’s unlikely to expect fireworks against the fully fit All Blacks at Eden Park who are currently playing very good rugby. Not Deans’ fault imo. Wallabies were looking dangerous in 2010 and early 2011. But their top quality player depth and lack of a power pack at international level still lets them down.
I thought this years Rugby Championship was gonna be a 2 horse race between the Boks and All Blacks, but based on the Boks last game that hope has faded. All Blacks looking more and more the favorites and likely winners…. I hope I’m wrong and the Boks pull it together.
August 27th 2012 @ 7:07am
Johnno said | August 27th 2012 @ 7:07am | Report comment
Absoloute best Wallaby side at full fitness: This team could run with the Ab’s
15) JOC
14)Ioane
13)Kuridrani or Andrew smith
12)Pat Mcabe
11)Big Joe Tomane
10) Leiffano
9)Genia/or luke burgess who has been big loss
8)Palu
7)Hooper
6)Higgers
5)Horwil
4)Timani
3)Holmes/Kepu
2)TPN/Moore
1)Palmer
-Sharpy off the bench, gill, Samo, one of the props, burgess, Beale, quad
Now that is a team just, so many injuries we don’t have the depth of the ab’s
-And Pocock would not make the 22 anymore Hooper and Gill better. Thanks for the memories Dave.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:14am
formeropenside said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:14am | Report comment
So, you have picked a debutant with little Super rugby time at 13, a limited player at 12, a journeyman with a great half season on his CV at 10, a backup 9 who cant pass, a non-jumping second rower in Timani, and Dan Palmer out of position at LHP.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:30am
Johnno said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:30am | Report comment
so who do you want Barnes at I/C i suppose. All those barnes fans will be like QLD labor at the election almost extinct.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:41am
Sailosi said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:41am | Report comment
Why not pick a player with half a great season. It’s better than selecting a player who has 5 poor seasons and 40 bad test matches. How is Lealifano a journeyman by the way? He’s 24 and he’s pplayed for the Brumbies and Waikato, i would hardly say he’s been around the block a few times.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:38am
formeropenside said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
I just dont think he’s automatically part of “Australia’s best uninjured side”.
No, Barnes has played himself out of 12 – not that he has actually played there this season.
I am really tempted to try Digby at 12, a la the Nonu conversion, on the EOYT. At least, if I was Wallaby coach.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:24pm
Adam-15 said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
FOS i think Leali’ifano deserves his spot as he has the ability to ignite the backline as well as play it conservative when needed. I think with cooper at full confidence he could play 10, Leali’ifano 12 and tapuai 13. i also wouldnt mind 12 O’Connor, Tapuai 13; Tapuai 12 and Cummins 13 or Tapuai 12, Inman 13.
I know your a die hard reds supporter FOS and so am i but you cant deny anymore that Timani has to be playing for the wallabies for the pack to have any element of size and aggression.
August 27th 2012 @ 3:58pm
jeznez said | August 27th 2012 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
but FOS, he has Holmes at tighthead so after the first couple of scrums where they got destroyed they could look at each other and say ‘do you think we should we swap?”
August 27th 2012 @ 8:49am
sheek said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:49am | Report comment
Johnno,
I have another suggestion. It will take longer to reach fruition but much better in the long run. It’s my 5 point plan.
1. Cultivate the grassroots.
2. Develop more player participation.
3. Provide better progression path structures.
4. Invest in quality coaching – amateur & professional – at all levels.
5. Play a compelling style of rugby to attract a greater fanbase, sponsorship & media interest.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:02am
Johnno said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:02am | Report comment
Sheek
You should run for ARU CEO simple strategies like that and were on our way aussy rugby. Or get David Nucifora’s job you’d do alright.
-I have watched a bit of ITM cup this year , and i can say it is a step up on shute shield. But the shut shield players have the potential some good games this year too in it, just they need better structures to improve.
The last point you make about sponsorship and media interest is important. As money talks and rugby needs some cash right now., like the johhny cash song i walk the line, well aussy rugby is walking a thin line needs some money and interest soon media in OZ have just given AFL and NRL 2 billion combined rugby needs some pie too.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:45am
Justin2 said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:45am | Report comment
Sheek – good points. 1-4 are up to the administration. 5 is up to the coach and he is failing.
August 27th 2012 @ 1:49pm
foriz said | August 27th 2012 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
This is the basic cause of our troubles – the talent pool is drying up. Once we could at least rely on the private school system for dedicated support but this is fading fast with not much to replace it. Now the league guys have got their $1b deal things will only get worse unless action is taken. We will soon be the poor man of the Rugby championship – the Argies will soon come to realise the value of the expansive game and will get a couple of Lionel Messi ‘s into their back 3. Sacking Deans will not achieve much nor will hounding QC (can anyone telll me what Barnes contributes – he is a competent SR player at best).. We seriously need a dominant inside centre we have not had since Mortlock was at his best. We should think about Greg Inglis for next WC. By end of 2013 he should have achieved all he can get in league and be financially set……but the main game should still be regenerating the grass roots,
August 27th 2012 @ 3:06pm
ted said | August 27th 2012 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
FFS GET FIT !
August 28th 2012 @ 8:24am
mick-e said | August 28th 2012 @ 8:24am | Report comment
Like the first choice team particularly the forwards. Palmer has to develop more explosiveness around the field though and Im not sure he can do this-like the Franks bros. But you dismiss Pocock too lightly. Hes got a great rugby brain on him and real leadership qualities. Remember he played much of his last test with a serious knee injury and why do the ABs target him so much? Because they know at the breakdown hes so damn good. McCaw would not look half as good if he was forced to act as a lone ranger like Pocock.
Leifano is unproven at test level and Smith and McCabe again could be a bit static. Would like to see Shipperly developed as a big busting centre and Lane and the young Force pivot fast tracked. Dont agree Samo should be retained-form up and down too much and hes too old. Need to blood another powerful, youngish 8 or move Timani there and give Neville or Pyle a test berth but thats probably in the future a bit. We need Horwill and Pocock back asap. Sharpie is due to retire. Neville is a looming prospect. Quade Cooper-wasted space. Beale ditto.
August 27th 2012 @ 7:17am
stillatragic said | August 27th 2012 @ 7:17am | Report comment
What’s with the back slapping with the ABs after the game. Smiles all round. ‘Gee, you really flogged us.You were great.’ They should have hung their collective heads in shame.
And this crap about no-one being able to beat the ABs that night. More crap. And even if it were true, why feed their egos? Where’s the fight, the passion? Or is this some clever mind game. A Jedi trick. Sounds more like capitulation. Neville Chamberlain words. ‘There will be no Bledisloe win in our lifetime.’
Its bad enough to lose. Its worse to be offered that as an excuse. That no one could beat them. Well, we certainly won’t with that attitude.
August 27th 2012 @ 8:56am
WQ said | August 27th 2012 @ 8:56am | Report comment
The first step towards improvement is to accept that you have to, in my opinion the Wallabies did that on the weekend. Would you have preferred them to say after the game that they just had a bad night and that the All Blacks got away with a few dodgy calls and that Ritchie McCaw cheated again?
Thats what they have been doing for the past 5 years and it has got them nowhere!
August 27th 2012 @ 10:33am
Sprigs said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:33am | Report comment
The Australian commentators as well as the team seem to have been captured by AB propaganda, with constant references to their might, their record at Eden Park, their being world champions.
Cowed by such craven talk, the team and their staff plus the journos adopt a subtle psychological attitude that doesn’t help.
One of the commentators even admitted that he had almost forgotten that the Wallabies had beaten the ABs in Brisbane last year.
No doubt the empty rubber excuses will be dragged out when the ABs lose in Brisbane– again.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:46am
Kane said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Again? The All Blacks have played 19 tests in Brisbane losing only three of them
August 27th 2012 @ 12:30pm
gekko said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Number #4 is coming up on the 20th of October.
August 27th 2012 @ 2:21pm
Funk said | August 27th 2012 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
Well, if they have lost 3 previously, then if they lose in October it would be…. “again”???
August 27th 2012 @ 4:46pm
Jerry said | August 27th 2012 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
Empty rubber? The term is ‘dead rubber’.
An empty rubber would be one that wasn’t full cause the person wearing it was too limp to fire a shot…actually, empty rubber is pretty appropriate for the Wallabies now I think about it.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:00pm
atlas said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:00pm | Report comment
again?
I understand it is an opportunity for the All Blacks’ 100th test win over the Wallabies. Could be wrong – read that in nz media!
That is a little motivation, despite the BC not needing to make the journey with them.
As it also effectively serves as a final trial for the end of year tour, I can’t imagine it being taken lightly by the players. With ITM Cup running concurrently there is plenty of opportunity for the selectors to look at players outside the existing squad; eg Barrett at 10 who after his 60min v Ireland didn’t make this team (Cruden), but scored a good 22 (nice number!) on Saturday for Taranaki.
August 27th 2012 @ 3:59pm
Uncle Argyle said | August 27th 2012 @ 3:59pm | Report comment
Hear, hear